Advice for getting clients you'd be nuts not to take with Phoebe Lee & Matt Turk - EP #089

G' day guys and welcome to this episode of the how to Scale a Video Business Podcast. If this is your first time here, thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoy the content and please, if you do, make sure you subscribe. And if you feel like it, please leave us a review that really helps to get the message out there. Today we are traveling well with Little Grey Box travel. Well are YouTube videos and written guides by Australian couple Phoebe and Matt. They are award winning travel bloggers, YouTubers and creatives. Phoebe is a writer and presenter and Matt is the videographer. And together they run Little Grey Box, an award winning travel blog and YouTube channel. And they work with brands and destinations to feature them across their online channels with an audience reach of over 110,000 people. And the reason I wanted to get Phoebe and Matt on was because they're doing something very unusual. Their business model is one of content creation, producing the content and then attracting people in to sponsor that content or actually get them, hire them to make content for them. It's a really interesting business model. They're very passionate about what they do. And in this episode we break down, you know, how it got started, how, how they left their corporate jobs to follow their dream, to follow their passion, but also, you know, some of the challenges along the way with actually building the channel and how long that takes and you know, some of the kind of daily and weekly struggles they have, but also the benefits of doing this. So I think you're really going to enjoy the show. And so if you do love it, please share it and let people know this exists. It really help us to push the message out there about the show and please subscribe and leave comments. All right, guys, enjoy the show.

Hey guys, just before we get started in this week's episode, I wanted to make sure you were aware of some new resources we've got for you over@denleny.com that's-e n l e n n I e.com including I'm giving away a free copy of my book A Filmmaker's Guide to budgets and quotes that increase profit margin on Productions by 20 to 30% instantly. So, so if you want to grab a copy of that book, it's on the website now and we're adding new resources to the resources tab all the time to help you scale your business faster. Thanks so much and enjoy the show. So guys, I'm really excited to have you both on the show today because you're doing something very unique at your husband and wife. You work together. That's probably a whole episode in itself, isn't it? Maybe not this one, but I think you guys have really cracked something very unique in terms of the travel genre and you do it as a full time job. So I'd love to start with maybe Phoebe explaining, you know, how did this come about? How did you go from not doing this to doing this? And Matt, tell me about, you know, how you got involved in that as well.

Sure.

I think it's a story really every single person can relate to. Matt and I were in a serious relationship with each other and we both were just unsatisfied. You know, we had everything that we should have to be happy. We had a great apartment, we were together, we were talking about getting engaged, we both had great jobs, plenty of money, everything was great. And yet there's this feeling in your life that you are still not satisfied and you're still not happy. So we thought we need to do something, we need to do something here to try and bring some life back into our lives, if that makes sense. So we thought the answer to that was moving to London. And it was very, very difficult and it turned out to be the right thing in a wrong way, if that makes sense. So yeah, we were on our way to London and on the way Matt said to me, you know, we have a chance here to start our lives over. We can be anything we want to be in this country. If you could be anything, what would you be? And I had had just enough cocktails at Bali happy hour to give the honest answer that I wanted to be a travel writer. And, and I had never. Matt and I had known each other for years and I had never mentioned that to him. And it was because I didn't have the self belief in myself to think that I could achieve that. I thought, that's so far off, that happens to somebody who's not me. And Matt said, do it, start a blog. And I was like, what's a blog? So he told me all about the world of blogging. And when we got to London, we set up this blog, just named it Little Gray Box on the Spot. Didn't give too much thought about it. It'll be an outlet for creativity and, and like I said, London was very challenging for us. We're Queenslanders through and through. We love the sunshine, the warmth, we go to the beach, Mount Surf. So it was very challenging.

My God, like, talk about a baptism of fire.

Yeah, it was rough.

We arrived at the Brixton, the Brixton tube station in the middle of winter and Realized immediately we had made a mistake.

Well, I have a flat in Brixton and we rented it for 14 years. But like, you know, it's a tough place to live.

It's a tough place.

Yeah.

And yeah, the blog really just started to grow. It was such a passion project for me. It was an outlet for something I love to do, which is writing. I've loved to write my whole life. And it started to get a bit traction and then blogs started to become a thing and it was like, wait a minute, this can be something. So we thought the best chance to make this succeed is to move back to Brisbane. Big fish, little pond maybe. And yeah, it started to really take off. And then I think Tourism Queensland named me like a travel blogger to watch. And I was like, oh well, let's make the niche travel then, seeing as Tourism Queensland think we should do that. And that's really started how it started to come together. And I was back at my old job. I was an auditor for the government, which is every bit as inspiring as it sounds. And just hating life really. And I just thought, I can't, I cannot live my life like this. Life has to be about more than making money and doing something you don't like doing. I have to do something. And I just got to the point where I, I have to change my life. So I quit my job and just decided to give this thing a go. And a year later, Matt had seen how happy I was and we didn't have the money to do this. The blog was earning like a hundred dollars a month maybe. And we were like, let's just do it. We've got all this money saved. Let's just put all of our money into this and try and make it work. And here we are five years later and it's our business, it's working, it's our full time jobs and we've never been happier in our lives.

That's amazing. And Matt, tell me about. You know, you obviously saw this kind of little twinkle in Phoebe and wanted to support that as a partner. But what was happening for you at the time? Were you obviously. Well, I would say obviously, were you restless as well and was like, you go first.

Yeah. No, I was miserable. I had a job with a construction company in the city. I was working in the corporate office, but I just hated it and I was not doing well at it. I was doing really long hours and I just wanted a way out. I was desperate.

I think it's important to note too that Matt's a graphic designer. So his skills and his natural skills, it was there. He had this eye for that kind.

Of artistic side, composition, framing, that kind of thing.

So this. I mean, I had no idea that this would happen when we moved to London. But we moved just as a change to get away from the problems we were having. And it just evolved and it turned in she had some skills in writing that people loved. And she got freshly pressed on WordPress, which is a big thing you get sort of shared and lots of people read your stuff. And that kick started the whole blog thing. And then we moved back and I used to put together like little videos of my friends and what we did through the year.

They were called Gold bullion product. And he would take all the footage from all the wild nights out throughout the whole year, shot on the worst, like Nokia 3210, and he would make these awesome videos and everyone would get psyched for them. Every year it would be like, yes, here comes the gold bully in production.

Yeah. And I think actually I did. The first one I made was when I had just been made redundant. It was the GFC and I was working for Amart, I think AIM at All Sports as a designer. And they laid everybody off. And so I was in my. In my room and I had nothing to do. And I just started making these videos and I found that I really enjoyed the process of making it and the process of people seeing it and seeing their reactions and that sort of thing. And that's sort of where the video things started. So then when we were traveling, I started trying to create videos as I went. They were terrible, but at least it was a start. And from there, some. Some people started to. I think we got paid by TripAdvisor to create a video based off the back of somebody they'd seen. Our very first video we created was about Tokyo. And Phoebe sat out there and she just basically.

Filmed her talking to camera about Tokyo. And it went off. It got like 70,000 views on YouTube. For us, that was huge. And then TripAdvisor said to us, can you do one about Brisbane? And we'll sponsor the video. So I forgot. That actually is our first sponsored video.

And I think like a big thing to anybody out there who's listening to this and thinking, oh, I want to get into that. I want to do something like that. Matt and I didn't have a plan for this. We didn't go and study for this. We didn't know before we get to get got together as a couple that this is what we wanted to do. This is just something that naturally evolved, and if we can do it, anyone can do it.

Yeah. And I've got no training in video whatsoever.

I often find people that have no traditional conventional training in video are not constrained by that, you know, that previous generation of professionals. If you like saying this is the way you make a video, because I think that way you. You actually create your own style. So this evolved into video and you got your first sort of sponsored post.

But this podcast is all about how to scale a video business. And I guess you are a video business. Travel agency, Travel writing, content creation agency. Tell me about the journey from that kind of first paid opportunity to the point where you could actually sustain yourselves comfortably and say, we now actually run a business that's. That's focusing on content creation and we actually can make a living from this. Tell me a bit about that journey because I think our listeners would be fascinated to know, you know, how it's okay to get one. You know, everyone can have one lucky break and have a big post and someone's interested. But how do you sustain that and build that into a business? It sustains two adults, you know, and that obviously champagne tastes the Porsches and they drive and the Ferraris and all that kind of thing.

Ah.

I would say. And yeah, this is the honest truth, it has been incredibly difficult. It has been. I've seen people where they have had one post or one video blow up. They've gone viral from that and received, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of followers. It has been a struggle for Matt and I every single step of the way. So, like I said, we started with money we had saved and we just made that last as long as we could. We had to just do jobs that were unpaid. We had to work for free. We had to do whatever we could to get the. And keep our audience happy and develop our skills.

I think a big thing that you're not mentioning is Phoebe's really, really good at relationship building. She's like the person that deals with all the clients generally, until they're clients we've had for a while, and then I sort of deal with them just because she's got a great way of building rapport that repeat and referral client work is huge for us and key.

Relationships with certain clients. So for example, Singapore Airlines is a great one to mention because they kind of saw something in us before we saw it in ourselves. And working with a brand like that puts you on the map for other brands.

Absolutely.

And that was an unpaid opportunity for us. But we saw Some leverage there, you know, if we're associated with them, that raises our profile too. So a lot of it has been things like that. And to be honest with you, not the end of last year, the end of the year before, we were down to having just a couple of thousand dollars. We had no money whatsoever. Our business had not been making a profit, and we were at the point where we nearly quit. I was in bed crying. Matt and my mum were there trying to me, and I was just like, I'm a failure. I've tried to do this. I've dragged Matt along with me. It's not worked, and this isn't going to work. And my mom and Matt kind of dusted me off and were like, chin up, kid. It's going to be okay. And they were right. The very next start of the year, it was like, maybe brands and agencies started to see what we do as valuable and see content creators as worthy of payment and okay, we can really use them to our benefit. And so they started to pay us. And like Matt's saying, developing those ongoing relationships with repeat clients has been key.

Huge Y.

But I would also say to be really upfront, we don't earn a lot of money. We still don't earn a lot of money. But the thing that we would spend our money on would be travel. So that kind of balances out when we're away on the road. You know, our meals are paid for, we're saving money, we're not buying groceries, we're not paying for these expenses. So it balances out.

Yeah, it's our passion. We love to travel, so it's, it's. It's perfect for us.

I just really want to pause on this thought because a lot of people have very.

And I want to say this respectfully, unrealistic expectations of how long it takes to build a business.

Yeah.

And I think you sharing your story so openly and so honestly, and I'm so grateful for you doing that because, you know, I've been running this business 11 years, and it's hard. And. And there are times when you want to give up because it's really fucking hard.

All the time.

All the time. But, you know, you never know when you're just that one degree off hitting a jackpot. And I think the other thing to sort of frame jackpot. Jackpot for me is living my best life, my ideal life. I think your ideal life would be something different, and people listening to the show might have a different sort of thought on ideal life, but ideal life is for me Doing something you love and not having to do a crappy job to pay for it.

I agree. That's why we. Why we do this. It's why we push through. Because when we have those low times, I have this moment where and I'm looking at other people, I'm going, okay, these people. If I had stayed with my job, I would be one of them, and I would have this great income, and I would not be worried about money. I would just be going to work and coming home. But I would be that same sad person that I was. And now I'm happy, a happy person. So I'm not doing this to earn a lot of money. That'll be great when it happens. And I need to keep earning enough money to live. But this is about something bigger. It's about life, fulfillment, and waking up every day and just being happy to be alive and getting to do what I love.

But that's true success, isn't it? I know perhaps as entrepreneurs, you don't. You never think of it as success because you kind of always focus on the stuff that hasn't worked.

That's exactly right. The focus. I only take notice of that success when somebody like you reflects it back at me. But the rest of the time, I'm so hard on myself, and I'm thinking, okay, we need to book more jobs. I need to find this. We need to, you know, what are we not doing right that our subscriber numbers aren't growing the way we want to? I'm very critical of myself and what we do. So you're very hard on yourself. You need people to say, hey, you. You're actually doing a really good job.

I think that's very common. And I speak to a lot of people on this podcast, and the. The person who's going to be hardest on you is you. And, and, and it's so easy to focus on what you haven't achieved. But yet, when you look back at 12 months ago and what you were doing and how you were living and you look at now.

Yes.

And the choices that you're able to make. How about you, Matt? I mean, what's. How's this journey been for you as someone who was a graphic designer, getting more into sort of videography, cinematography, whatever you want to call it.

Yeah.

How's that journey been in terms of fulfillment for you?

Yeah, it's been a scary journey, to be honest, because it's a whole new thing that I knew nothing about, you know, and I didn't know. I remember reading back in the day about codex and stuff like this. And I had no idea what that meant. And I was terrified of trying to create videos in an industry where I was. I had no experience and no training. But you just sort of learn stuff as you go and it's kind of. It's liberating to think that you can change careers halfway through your life. Because I'm over 40, so it was pretty exciting to be able to change the whole thing that I do. I still do do some design stuff and I think that's important for us in terms of income. We still need that. But I've loved it and sometimes some days I just catch myself and go, I'm so lucky. This is amazing that I get to work for myself doing travel stuff and not have to worry about the old stuff that I used to do and just had no passion for. So I love it.

The other thing I think is worth noting.

Is that no one sees the number of hours you do and the amount of work you do behind the scenes to win the jobs. And generally speaking, perceived overnight successes are usually like 10 or 15 years worth of hard graft. You see it with music, they're an overnight success. They just didn't see the 10 years in the back of a van. Talk to me about some of the things that you might do on a typical week to nurture relationships and get clients to book jobs. Because I think that's really important to give people a really solid sense of perspective of what it takes to get to the level where you're at, where you're like, you've got some traction, you're earning a living, it's not huge, but you keep going. The chances are it will continue to grow because it has a compound effect. I'd love to hear a bit more about some of the realities of what that looks like.

I want to talk about in two ways because the first thing that sprung to mind was a conversation we were having just when Dan arrived about how I think. I often have people say to me, it must be really nice to go on holidays for a living. And I think I am never working harder than when we're on the road filming something. And it's those things that people don't see. It's flying a long haul flight from the 14 hours from Brisbane to LA and then catching a cross country flight, which is another six hours, then getting to your hotel, dropping your bags and then filming for 17 hours that day and doing that, you know, 16, 17 hours back to back to back, six or seven days, then flying Home and immediately starting editing it is grueling, it is exhausting. And if you don't love what you do, you will never keep it up because it requires everything you have. So that's one arm of it. And then here at home it's a lot more relaxed when we're at home because we have more time and to be honest with you, I think those relationships and nurturing those relationships to get those bookings, it does start with a bit of luck. I haven't had any luck. I don't think with just cold calls or emails and reaching out to people. It's very difficult and you lose your power when you do that. We have more power and more leverage when the client comes to us. That's a lot better of a situation for us. And to nurture those relationships, I think it's incredibly important to be grateful and humble. Not act like you are some big shot and they have come to you and they should be so grateful to work with you. You treat that client with respect and you treat them with hum and kindness. We always go above and beyond what is expected of us. We do everything with a certain amount of professionalism. And our clients say time and time again it's that professionalism and it's who we are is just two regular down to earth people that keeps them coming back. So basically, don't be a dickhead.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I want to second that. You know, I used to shoot a lot of travel stuff and it was a big show in the UK called Wish youh Were Here and it's heyday, it was doing 12 to 15 million viewers and it was a great show to work on, don't get me me wrong. But, but the pay wasn't very good and they were brutal schedules. We were in and out in five days.

But yes, going to work in your shorts, hanging out on a beach, filming like, you know, it's not a proper job but it is still a lot of work.

Yes.

And, and you know, I think because you're on holiday, somebody would perceive it. When you go on holiday you're in a, an excited mode of hey, getting on a plane, going to relax, have a few drinks, you get a long haul flight for work. You're on the water, you're trying to get some sleep and you're grafting. But you know, that's okay. It's like it's still a choice and we all make that choice. But I just think it's important to emphasize that anything that you want to develop is going to take A lot of work and a lot of patience.

Matt, what can you share about the journey that's really impacted you in terms of. Because you know, if you're shooting, you're oftentimes getting up to shoot the sunrise and then up late is to shoot the sunset. Talk me through some of the kind of more challenging days.

Yeah, I mean, shoot days generally aren't. They don't feel as challenging to me as sometimes editing days. Shooting is always a lot of fun because you're in a new location usually. And I enjoy. Sometimes I enjoy getting up early and shooting sunrises and stuff. But it can get tiring. Like by the end of the day you're very worn out. You spend a lot of time walking around doing stuff. Then you've got to spend a few hours backing everything up because you can't afford to lose it, which I have in the past.

But then coming home after a trip, you'll be exhausted, you'll come back home and that's when the real work starts. You actually got to start producing the content to a deadline that you've agreed to with either yourself or with a client. And I can spend. Sometimes I pull all nighters and then I'm wrecked for the next day. But sometimes I have to pull an all nighter and we've got a trip that starts the next day. So I'm wrecked on the way to the next trip. So it's really difficult, especially when you've got nobody else to sort of bounce off creative ideas or how to use a program because I certainly don't know everything about the programs I'm using or the equipment I'm using. So you're kind of by yourself. You're isolated. The most enjoyable times is when I travel with other videographers and that doesn't happen very often, but I learn a lot from them. So I love that opportunity. We have had that once and it was amazing for me, it's so good.

We learn so much and what we produce is always better. It's always better. Yeah.

Tell me about your sort of the business side of things. So, you know, you don't need to reveal numbers, but you know, you do a certain amount of work. What kind of percentage of what do you do where you're kind of paid by a brand to go and create some content versus how much time do you spend generating your own content, which is I guess, your own marketing, your own channel, your own creative passions. Talk to me a bit about how that works in terms of balance because I would imagine when you're doing a client job. It's great. Clients got a budget, a deadline and a set of criteria. But like this podcast, this doesn't generate any revenue. I just do it as a kind of front end marketing tool, but also because I love to share and I get to meet cool people like you, but it's an enormous amount of work. Talk to me about your kind of workflows for managing both those things and your energy.

Oh, that's an interesting question.

Yeah, well, I was going to say, I mean most of our content, most of our jobs is determined by clients. Whether we like it or not. It's rare that we will do our own travel of our own back. Sometimes we do.

I think it's important in terms of being upfront and honest. The reason for that is we can't afford to. We don't earn enough money that we can afford to be flying all over the world paying for all these hotels, especially not when we're then going to create content that's going to earn them money and not us. So we try not to do anything that we have to pay for off our own back. Just business wise.

Yeah. And so the client will usually have a brief that they want filled and we usually go above and beyond in that we create our own content as well at the same time. Sometimes they want that, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get it and they're really happy about it. But yeah, we take a trip, we get as much content as we can and we try to stretch that out over a few weeks.

Yes. And then when we come home again, then we've got time in between our schedule to take up freelance work. So both Matt and I freelance and that.

Subsidizes our income.

No, what's the word?

Subsidize is lower. Right?

Yeah, sub. Subsidize. It's like kind of adds, fills the days, I guess, when you're, when you're not earning all the other stuff.

There's me talking about being a travel writer and I don't know what subsidize is.

Yeah. Because we never know when the next job.

Supplements, supplements, supplements.

Supplements.

So then we come back and then we can make more money that way. You know, we both freelance and we, we have different revenue streams for sure. You know, affiliate marketing, affiliate links are one of those streams as well, which really help us. But we had our first video sponsor just last week, so they paid us just for a brand mentioned and a link in the bio. And a little section of the video was dedicated to talking about their product and that was great. It would be great to do that because if we could have a video sponsor every single week, that would really be great income for us. So that's definitely a target.

Yeah, but don't you think, you know, it's. You've kind of got to do years of content and consistency. And the way I'm experiencing it is we're on, I think, episode, but this will be episode. I don't know, let's call it episode 70 for argument's sake. We've done 70 episodes and we just started to see a real spike in downloads after 65 episodes.

Yeah.

And it would be so easy to give up episode 30, episode 40, episode 50 going, we're spending a lot of money producing this content and we don't appear to be getting anything other than it's nice to talk to people. But, you know, I'm spending a lot of time and energy and effort and money to do the show. But I believe in it.

Yes.

And I'm passionate about it and I want to help people scale their video business. And I've got a mission of wanting to help 10,000 video businesses double the profit. So not everyone can afford to come into the program. Everyone's the right fit for the program. And I couldn't deal with anyone, any everyone, everyone, anyway. So the podcast is an opportunity to share great information, bring on great guests, but it's still an awful lot of work. Can you guys relate to that? I mean, how much content do you think you've produced? How many years have you been working at this, where you got your first sponsored post after how many years, how many videos do you reckon?

There's 200 videos on there. So there's a lot of videos. And you've written a thousand posts, I think, on the website.

Yeah. Years. This has been 5, 6 years of extremely hard work. I did not work this hard in my office job. I just didn't. I didn't have that same passion for it and that same ability to keep going and do what needed to be done. If you need to work all night, you need to film all night. You do.

Is years and years and years of unseen work.

Sometimes you just gotta dust yourself off. Like, I'll create a video, 15 minute video, sometimes put it on a YouTube channel and it get 400 views and you're like, what was the point of the 1012 hours spent on that?

And that's just the editing. There was the shooting, there was the scripting, there was the standing there in the Bangkok heat with sweat dripping down my Face going, come to Bangkok. It's really, really chall. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm the kind of person, if things were easy, I lose interest. I need it to be this hard. It keeps me going. I love the challenge, I love the fight. And I'll do it until I can't do it anymore. And half of it's just waiting everybody else out. You gotta wait out the weak ones that can't hack it.

It's true. It's true. You've just, you know, I'm going to interview Ben Simkin after this, who's a mentor of mine and a friend. And Ben's a multimillionaire business entrepreneur, world's number one Facebook marketer.

That's not us.

But Ben has been doing it since he was 18, and it's all he's done. He didn't have nights out when he was 18. He was building businesses. And, you know, he says at every event, guys, business is hard. And I think there's this perception, particularly with. I don't know if it's right to call you an influencer, but, you know, in that kind of social media environment where people just perceive if you've got a channel and a following, you're just being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to sort of, you know, show products. But the fact is, it's. I want to really just focus on this, like just, just how hard it is and how. And give people who are listening a real sense of perspective on the years that it takes to build anything. But I love what you said there, Phoebe, about waiting it out. So the weak fall by the wayside because people notice you. People know who you are, they're aware of you. They may just not be ready to buy something from you yet, but I guarantee. And do you feel this, guys, like.

You got a first nibble of a sponsored video. It won't be the last, surely.

No, it's very close to what you said before. You never know when those goals in your head are just around the corner. And that's how we feel when you have those little milestones and we're about to have. Have 40,000 YouTube subscribers. That's a big deal for us because I remember the day that we met somebody with a couple of million and they said, oh, how many have you got? And we said, 231. And I was humiliated. And I thought, wow, that's never going to be me, but you just have to keep working at it. And I've seen so many other people Fall by the wayside. And we just keep working and keep grinding and keep going after it, because there is no other alternative. I will not go back to another job because I know what that is. And I've had this experience now, and there is nothing more rewarding than setting these goals, working for yourself, knowing that every single extra hour you put in benefits you, Benefits your business, benefits somebody else out there who needs what you're sharing. It's an incredibly rewarding thing, and the money will be great when it happens, but for now, it's amazing for your soul.

So what's it like working together? Because I know when I work with my wife, we didn't do too well, and my wife's been on this podcast, and we now sort of laugh about it. But.

Is that challenging?

Yeah, absolutely.

Hey, don't jump in too quick.

Yeah. We've changed. When we first started, we actually had a desk set up in the middle of our house, where we are right now.

We worked on the same desk together.

That did not work. That fell by the wayside pretty quickly.

Lots of fights.

Yeah. But now we have separate offices, and we just talk as we would in an office across via messenger, Stuff like that. Meet for lunch. We pretty much spend 24 hours a day, every day together. There's very few times that we're apart.

It can be very challenging. Yeah. When the lines between you as a couple and you as a business partners kind of get blurred, and that happens. I mean, we can be standing somewhere, like I mentioned before, on the streets of Bangkok. It's humid, 40 degrees. I'm in a foul mood because I'm hot and angry, and I just want to get the take and get out of there. And Matt's going, we need to get it again. I didn't get it. And you have to just go, okay, that's not my husband. That's the person that's trying to do his job. But there are a lot of upsides to it, too. If I was trying to do this and Matt wasn't in this business with me, as you would know, somebody who's in this business knows how hard it is. He would not understand how hard it is. Like, why I was so frustrated chasing clients about invoices Again, why we're so frustrated that this wasn't included in the brief. Again, Matt gets it, and we set clear goals every single year. Those goals are shared. We do it together, and nobody else understands or apprec what it means when something happens, what that means to us when we get that Sponsored video Because that's something we worked our butts off for for five or six years, and he was there for every single second of that work. So it's an incredible thing to have your partner that be there for you in that way.

Yeah. And I actually do think that if I wasn't doing this with you, I wouldn't be doing it, to be totally honest, I probably wouldn't be doing. Creating videos. Certainly not travel videos, because I wouldn't do it by myself. I want to do it with a.

Yeah, I'd do it without you.

Wow. Brutal. Well, guys, I think we'll pause it there because I'd love to get you back because I think we just touched on the whole idea of how your working relationship works in reality. And I'd love to dig more into the realities and specifics of what jobs look like. Where can people find out more about you?

We're all over the Internet. Littlegrobox.net that's the website Little Gray Box on YouTube. And if you search little gray box on Facebook, Facebook and Instagram, you will find us.

Beautiful. Let's pick this up again. You've been listening to the how to Scale a Video Business podcast with me, your host, Dan Lenny. If you're a video business owner who's hit a ceiling and we benefit from mentorship, support, and coaching, then check out how you can work with me over@denlenny.com don't forget to subscribe and rate the show over on itunes. And we'd really appreciate, appreciate you taking a few minutes to leave a review. And don't forget to share. If you feel you've gotten value from this episode and you think it would be useful for other filmmakers you know, then please do me a massive favor and share it on social media and in groups that you might be in. We'll see you next week.