Being Too Creative Could Scare Clients Off with Simeon Quarrie (Part 2)

G', day, guys.

Den here. And I'm excited to present to you the second part of the interview I did with Simeon Quarry from Vividia. Now, Simeon is a fascinating creative who has embraced many different disciplines across his career. He's now currently working in virtual reality. Last week we had an amazing episode where we talked about the work ethic that he has and his ability to scale up and scale down depending on the projects and what he wants from his business. Now, this week, we take a slightly different turn and we talk about how being too creative can scare clients off. All too often, I hear stories of filmmakers who eagerly want to share wild creative ideas with a client. And oftentimes, in fact, most of the time, clients just want something safe, reliable, delivered on time and on budget. And so Simeon shares examples of his own career where he's lost work because he's tried to be too creative. So where's the balance? And getting that balance right is really, really fascinating. So enjoy this episode, folks, and I'll see you next week.

Welcome to the Video Business Accelerator podcast. Each week we uncover the secrets to creating a wildly successful and scalable video production business. With your host, Dan Lenny, discover how the accelerator program is transforming the lives of our members at www. Videobusinessaccelerator.com. enjoy this episode.

Simeon, last week we were just about to get into marketing because you were talking about how in the wedding business, you were very clear on your target market and had a very good funnel. When you went into corporate, it got a bit more broad and now you've moving back into a specialism again. Talk to me about how you've gone about marketing. Maybe from the point where you started the corporate business or the corporate elements of the business, how are you getting clients? What was your process? What was your strategy?

So one strategy, even when I was working in weddings, was that the work that we needed to do needed to be the highest standard it could be so that corporations would understand the aesthetic value and the approach and the systems that we had in place. And that's what happened. Our first clients actually looked at our wedding work. I remember being in the 30th third floor of the Barclays building in central London, thinking I was there essentially to go through my lack of funds in my. In my account, and only to have the director turn around to his staff and go, have you seen the wedding video that was in Venice? Yes. Have you seen the wedding videos in India? Yes. Have you seen the wedding videos? Yes. Okay. Can you do something like that for us? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure I can. That was also quite strategic. I knew that's where I wanted to get and that was what the process was going to be. But there are a few things that really shifted for me in that I noticed that when it came to the corporate work, one behaviour that I wish I changed early was networking. People say it's who you know and it's really very, very true. But actually you have, you can be quite strategic with that and you have to be understand who, who is it that you want to be targeting, what is it that you have to offer them and then you try and get yourself into that ecosystem. So sometimes if you get yourself a client, your aim is to see, is there the scope within the existing organization that you're working with to either get more work from that same client or to actually move throughout the organization. And how can you do that? Where will these individuals be? How do you place yourself in a position of expertise and authority so that they come to you with an appreciation for what you do? And that's quite a shift. So for me, for example, I put quite an effort into making sure that in certain areas I'm seen a little bit as a thought leader. Right. And that way that there's that elevated level of respect instead of me always going, I want to be in a position of control and a power, almost like a solicitor or a lawyer would be. Right. So if I suggest something or recommend we do something, they're looking at to me as the expert, which changes the way the business feels and the way it runs. It also changes what you're in a position to charge as well. Another thing that is really important is trying to define who it is that is in your, in your target audience. So what's the Persona like? If you could go actually, well, you know, something based on the, you know, this business need, the people that I need to target, they're probably around this. Yeah, it could be this age bracket, it could be that they're in this type of, this type of job role, they're at this type of location. When you then start to understand that, then of course you start to present yourself very, very differently. So it might change the way you dress, may change the way you talk, may change the nature of your website. You may want to be that cool, hip dude with the red epic. All right, not red epic, a red camera, you know, on your skateboard and really cool. And you're losing all the, you know, the movies and the gimbals, etc, etc, but you might actually realize that the target audience you're approaching is finding that technology actually pretty darn scary. Right? And all of those cool gadgets that in the industry look really super cool is very, very far away from what gives your potential client that feeling of comfort. You're focusing on the technology and how cool that is and being cool in the eyes of the community. But your 55 year old involved in that particular corporate role, he just wants a solution and the symptom. He wants a solution to solve a problem and to solve the symptoms. And your technology is not the thing that he's interested in. So all of a sudden your visuals and your marketing start to change. And I think there's sometimes a huge disconnect between what how we feel we should present ourselves for industry and how we should actually be looking to present ourselves when we're looking for clients.

You're speaking my language, mate. I mean it's.

I work with a lot of clients over the years and I work with a lot of clients now who are production companies who work with clients. And the thing that keeps coming back for the companies that I work with who are doing extremely well, extremely well consistently, who are doing seven figures and above consistently, is that they deliver what the client asks for. They don't go crazy trying to make it Hollywood. They, they deliver a very consistent and very solid product. Because clients are terrified of creatives because they go, what happens if I don't keep a rein on you? And you get out of control because at the end of the day that they've got to sell something with the content they're making.

Yes. So I totally believe that. And there's been ways that my creativity, because I count myself as being a creative, right? And to be the best creator possible means you need the best creative. And it's hurt me and it's hurt my business. Why? One, because creativity in itself as the primary KPI for your business is not good for business because it's one really expensive and it's also very difficult to systemize. If you look at the businesses that really work well, the reality of what they do is they spend a lot of time upfront designing and making the product. And then what they do is they take that product and then they package it and then they sell it and they sell it over and over and over again and they get the consistency where it needs to be. Why? Because those parameters have been predefined and preset. Businesses that work well do that. For me, my ego's like, well, wait a minute. When I drop something on social media, that's like this cool. And I'm doing this, that and the other, right? That stuff gets me all the likes, that stuff gets me all the engagement. That stuff might get me the, the industry fame, right? But it's difficult to systemize and it becomes very, very expensive. The other thing is that yes, I pitched for a job and I remember I put all this amazing creative in the client didn't go for it. And the reason was it was too creative. They told me up front was too creative.

They were like, is it too ambitious to try and get that creative done and make sure it was on point? It's harder for, to get a sign off. They're like, look, I've got this problem and I just want this solved. This is what we need. So it's about giving people sometimes what they is what is about giving people what they need. And I think that's sometimes a mistake that a lot of production companies go through over and over again. The other issue is, is that when you start to go into highly bespoke, very heavily creative projects, the sales cycle changes. And we've seen this having moved into virtual reality, you can imagine that this 3D storytelling, which is a bit like film and video, what we would end up doing is we would go to companies to go, look, this is what we can do. And I go, okay, and let me kind of come up with this creative idea. Now you're like thinking, right, does the creative process for the idea in the concept, does this come in in order to get the work or is it within the scope of the work? And if the work is so creative and the ideation process is so super creative, the difficulty can be, is that you either have to have lots of changes and iterations in order to get to what is needed. Also the bit that's really scary for a client is clients like to hire a business, a person, an organization where the outcome is predictable. That's key, right? They hire someone or a team because the outcome is predictable. When you start working with larger organizations, no, they're not spending their own money. That's the good thing. However, they can lose their job if they really mess up. And if they spend budget and, and the product is rubbish and they need to go and spend it all over again. The other thing that can happen is they may not get that promotion or they may not get that bonus. And that's the stuff that means a lot to people. So what they like to do is they need to go for something where they can go, look, this is what this organization does. And we Know if we put this money in, this is what we're going to get out at the end of it. So they take that up to their directors and the bosses in the C suite and they go, if we invest this, this is what we are going to get. If your product is inconsistent in terms of maybe the visual aesthetic, in terms of the approach, they can't tangibly get hold of what the, of what it is. You might think that it's really consistent, right, because you consistently use the same type of camera and it's a similar in terms of the aesthetic. But if your product is in terms of the output and the creativity and the storyline etc. So, so offbeat. There's not enough consistency in there for them to be able to invest in those higher figures. That's something that I have learned and now really having to put in play. And it takes a level of. I don't know if humility is the right word. I've had to care less about what industry thinks and I've had to, yeah, sure. My social media is nowhere near as flash as it was. Right. Because I'm actually now starting to look at what does that customer need, what is it that I provide and continually she's work, how I rein in what I do.

So many great points there. You know, we have a double edged sword in our industry. In the last 10 years it's been incredible what's changed in our industry in terms of technology. There's an incredibly supportive community but I think there's a danger of that community all kind of agreeing with each other. And actually I would wager that 95% of the community are broke. You've spent way more money on GI than they've got money to pay for it and are literally sitting waiting for the phone to ring. And I mean that very seriously. And what happens is you go into these groups and people ask questions and there's 70 responses and 70 opinions about how to get work or how to do whatever. And it seems to me that there's just no focus on business because it's. People are terrified of it because it's much easier to take the credit card out, buy some equipment, go to 4k, go to 6k, go to 8k, go to HDR, buy all the ancillary equipment, all the gubbins and be like right, I'm ready. But, but they're not spending any time focusing on who they want to serve and is there a market for it. And I think that there's a very high risk of a lot of businesses going broke because they're just not focusing on the right things. And, you know, I've gone through various cycles over the years with social media, and I made the decision about a year ago to just stop and put all of my effort and all of my focus into this podcast and my paying clients. And what I do now is 80% of my time, I focus on my paying clients and caring about their success. And the great thing is they just keep getting better and better because I've got all my focus and less time worrying about what people saying because likes and shares and views don't pay the mortgage.

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree. You know, sometimes if it's social media and you need to do it, I. You can delegate. You have to choose what channels maybe you're involved in. So, for example, for me, Facebook, I've deleted the app. Right. I now focus my attention on LinkedIn, because where clients are. Right. I realize that. Where are my clients? Well, they're on LinkedIn. So that becomes the behavior that's most important to me. And then I focus on what it is that would appeal to them rather than trying to appeal to those in the audience. Right. Who want to see gear and technology. I might be on my Instagram feed or whatever, but the reality is now, yeah, you have to focus on the actual business. And I think the difficulty is, is that we like the gear and we like the tech, Right. And we often think that the solution to a problem is to do a camera upgrade or a technology upgrade. The reality is how many businesses actually use 4K files, right? No, it gives us some creative options, but I think equipment either makes life easier for you or it sometimes gives you a technical advantage over and above other organizations and.

Businesses and competition. But it's really the defining factor. Very rarely the defining factor unless you are a, you know, literally a director of photography. But even those guys you rent the equipment in, they don't necessarily own it all. So, yeah, the key is 100% is that business itself is the key thing. That's why you often hear that phrase focus on the business. On it, not just being in it, which often means, yeah, don't get hooked up in the technical side of all of the equipment. So many. I spoke to someone the other day and they, you know, they were trying to build their business and what they were doing is they were focusing all their time on trying to get the best out of the camera. They know, in the codecs, and they were all. Simeon, what do you mean? You don't know about this? You're an ambassador for Canon and you're telling me that you don't do a. You know.

These processes and you don't do this and you don't do that. It's like, no, I don't care because my clients can't see it and my clients don't care. I said to them, stop focusing on the kit and the gear. Believe me, if you get a job where you need to do something against a cycle or something, you're going to sit there and you're going to study it. Study it. Do what you need to do now in order to be able to have enough understanding and confidence and enough to prove to your client that you know what you're doing. But then stop work on the business if all of a sudden you get asked to do something you're not quite sure how to do. Believe me, get up in the morning, wake up early, go to bed late, research test and try then on the basis of knowing that the dollar associated with that learning is there, let that client pay for that piece of technology, let that client pay for that piece of additional knowledge that you didn't have before. But actually just dedicate some time on working on the business systems, your market, understanding your client. My battery is going to run out on the camera.

Okay, well, I need to go and replace it. That's okay. Well, listen, we'll wrap this up, seeing as we don't want to run out of time. Mate, this has been a fascinating chat. I would love to get you back on the podcast again. Just, just one more thing. Hopefully we've got some time for this is.

Thank you. So I will speak very, very fast. The work that we're doing right now is we are using storytelling in order to impact, you know, drive some cultural change. So, for example, a lot of training can be very, very boring. A lot of storytelling in terms of video. In the business world, people have to decide whether they watch it. They may wait, they may watch part, but maybe not watch the whole thing. It works on the basis of audio and just the visuals. But with virtual reality, I take the skills of audio, we take the visuals, but then now we combine that with movement, and then we combine that with interactivity, and we combine it with a sense of touch. And this allows us to create amazing levels of impact, amazing levels of engagement, and it also allows us to start to play with things such as empathy. We often say that we would change our behaviors if we could walk a mile in someone else's shoes. But with virtual reality, we literally get to enable a client to have their staff or their people or their customers walk a mile in someone else's shoes. So we're working on using that storytelling, the next level of storytelling in order to be able to drive engagement. It's hugely exciting, very challenging, but.

Having to zone into the right type of customer. Understand what it is that you offer. But also the key thing with any business is understanding the value that you bring, right? Don't just focus on video. Video, video or VR, whatever it is. Don't focus on the technology. Don't just focus on the technical output. Focus on the value that you bring. That changes your pricing, changes your attitude, it changes your marketing, it changes how customers perceive you. So just as a final piece of advice, that would be it, focus on the value rather than just focusing on the in and out point on the video and all the information that goes in between it.

Simeon, I'd love to get you back another time. And where can we find out more about you?

I'm on Instagram and all social media channels at Simeon Quarry. So S I M E O N and then Quarry Q U A R R I E. Always love chatting with people. So yeah, feel free. Connect with YouTube, Instagram. You'll find me on email with my business. Vida, mate, thank you so very much. Thank you.

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