BFC #003 - How to make branding work for Creatives with David Fernandez

You're listening to the Business for Creatives podcast where each week we uncover the secrets to balancing creativity and business all in the one place with your host, me, Dan Lenny.

Well, hi folks. Welcome to another episode of the Business for Filmmakers podcast. Today, I am thrilled to have a friend, friend and colleague, David Fernandez of Evolve Design, on the podcast with us today. One of the things we want to do in this podcast is not just talk about filmmaking, but all the other things that you have to build around your brand, your business. You know, I think a lot of times filmmakers talk about, well, I've got a website and a show reel, but David, one of David's expertise areas is branding and branding is something that I've always had a bit of a love hate relationship with. But David, welcome to the podcast. I think before I get into what I think of branding, tell us a little bit about you, your background and what you're doing nowadays with Evolve.

Awesome, Dan, thanks very much for having me on. So I guess to give you a little bit of background, I've been in the branding game for about 15 years now. I've worked on all sides. I've been client side, I've worked for large corporations like Qantas and Sony, and I've also done the smaller side of things, working with small business, medium size and freelancers. It's just really interesting because brand encompasses so much, yet people have a very little understanding of what brand actually is. But yeah, that's pretty much where I've been up to now. And I started up my own agency just a couple of years ago, focusing on brand and building that and making sure that people are getting results from it and ultimately making more revenue and building their brand awareness.

Well, this is the thing that I think you write the word branding. I think that Mercedes do branding or Coke do branding or McDonald's do branding. Big corporations do branding. And as a small business owner, as a freelancer, you think, well, I've got a limited budget to spend. Even the thought of marketing and advertising can be scary sometimes. But, but for me, branding has always been like, I can't go spending money on branding because it's just, I've got a logo and I've got a website. How is branding going to help me?

And it's funny because just recently I've started to think a bit more about are my channels, are my different social media profiles actually aligned? They actually look like the part of the same brand, not just in terms of typeface and font and colors, but what kind of message am I giving to the market. And when new people come to discover me, how am I, Am I clear in what I'm seeing? What is your perspective on that? Obviously, you're a branding professional. Is that a common position that people have where they think, oh, that's just something that McDonald's do?

Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess, look, the common misconception with branding is that branding is a logo, okay? That's the first and foremost, you know, misconception. Branding is a logo. It's just the way that my website looks and, and that's it, you know, and it's gonna cost me money. And is it really worth it? Is it, you know, gonna give me a return? That's something that these large companies, like you were saying, you know, have millions of dollars to invest in, and that's why they can do it. My car. Now, when you talk about brand, okay, brand is so much more than just a logo, okay? Your brand is who you are, right? It's what you stand for. It's what you make people believe in you. You know, believe in your product, your service. You know, people need to have a degree of connection with you and your business, okay? Because if not, they just won't buy from you. It's as simple as that. You know, I guess, you know, an example I can give you as well is when we go to the chemist, you know, and you go in for your. Your medication, say, right? And the pharmacist says to you, would you like the branded product? Would you like a generic brand? Okay, It's a very simple thing where, you know, the products are the same, the ingredients are the same, yet people have a very strong preference one way or the other. And now it really just depends on what your values are and what you deem as important in order for you to make that decision, right? So you might go the generic brand because for you, cost saving is where it's at, right? For others, they will never touch a generic brand, for example, right? They will always go the branded product because why? Because they trust it, because their doctors written it on their prescription. Because they're used to hearing Amoxil versus some generic brand because they're used to their mum having given it to them when they were little. Whatever it is, it's this exposure, this built up trust that's, you know, that's kind of blinded them completely from anything else, regardless of cost savings or whatever. And that's essentially a really simple example about how branding operates. You know, there's always going to be a market for everything that's what we need to, you know, always keep in mind there are people that just won't like your brand. That's, that's just a matter of life. So it's about understanding your target market, you know, and really driving a message home for them so that they choose you rather than, you know, the thousands of other companies that there are out there.

I love that, I love that, that reference to, you know, there's infinite choice in the marketplace and there are people who will choose the unbranded and there are people who choose the branded. So take, take for example, the independent video producer who's running a small video production company. Perhaps they're freelance. You come from the design world. It's not that dissimilar. There are a lot of lone wolf operators, a lot of solopreneurs who work out of their bedroom or maybe a small office. I feel that.

As the marketplace is becoming more.

Crowded and there's actually more opportunity, but there's a lot of newer, younger filmmakers coming on the scene who are doing stuff cheaper. And my point is always this is that there will always be younger, faster, cheaper competition. But not every product, brand, service company or corporation wants to deal with cheapest, lowest end of the market. And I feel that that where branding can play a really important part. And look, I was the world's biggest cynic. You and I've had many conversations about this offline, about my views on branding. And as I spent more and more time with you and I've seen your work, and I'm like, do you know what? Oh, wow. Actually, I'm kind of starting to get it because it's about trust. It's about knowing who your target market are, understanding who they are intimately and who you're targeting, and making sure your message is congruent with the resonance for that target market. Is that the right way to kind of analyze this?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So again, to touch back on the point of brand, okay, your brand is not just your visual appearance, but also the way you talk to clients, the way you present yourself, the way you send them a quote or an invoice, or you, you know, brand encompasses everything. It's the whole experience that your customer, your client has with you and your business. Right? So it's really important to differentiate yourself. Okay? Because like you said, there's thousands and thousands, especially in the creative industry, right? Like, you know, in design, for example, it's the same thing, right? And it would be the same for you guys. Thousands and thousands of friends, freelancers, thousands and thousands of businesses, everyone competing for the same work. Okay, so how do you stand out from all of that? Right. If I'm the customer and I'm looking for someone with a particular skill, if I need a corporate video done and I'm looking for that, how many of those are there out there? But who's going to appeal to me, right? It's going to be someone who shares my views, my beliefs. I want something that is professional. I want someone who specializes in corporate. For example, you know, if I see someone who is a corporate videographer but also does weddings and also does, you know, something else to me that's not appealing to me, right? Because I have a particular view in mind of what I want and what I need. And you know that, you know, clients needs are what runs everything, right?

And this is also from the point of view, you are someone who uses video in your own business. You're someone who creates content for social. So you would have gone through a process while you were looking for videographers. And I say that because in Australia the phrase videographer is used a lot. In Europe and the U.S. it's more filmmaker, corporate filmmaker, whatever. But it's interesting that you would have been probably prejudiced in some ways and I don't mean that in a negative sense. When you see someone who doesn't present themselves well because you think, well, how are they going to turn up the shoot if their front end's messy? And I suppose it's a bit like, you know, I always think of it as the shop front in the digital world. Your shop front. I did something in my six figure inner circle recently about this, where I talked about, you know, when was the last time you googled your name? Not from some egotistical point of view, but actually what shows up when you Google yourself or your company name and is there consistency with the message across the channels and does it look the same? And I realized in my own business that my message wasn't consistent. I started this business in 2008, 2009. We've changed our product offering quite considerably since then. But what happens is legacy aspects of the business still end up being on the website or in the overall outward facing profile. And I feel that what happens is that confuses the market. And I'm sure I'm not alone in small business where running five to 10 years and things change, but we don't necessarily change and get independent third party help to assess and analyze the brand. And is that something that you guys do a lot of. You must deal with this all the time.

Yes, And I mean, look, it goes back to the same thing as always, right now, with so many crowdsourcing websites, with so many freelancers out there, right? Design and brand and even, you know, video and all the creative industries have been bastardized so much, right. That now everyone thinks that they're an expert in their field. Right? Anyone can be a designer now. Anyone can grab Photoshop and, you know, learn their way around. Anyone can grab a camera, you know, so to speak, and start shooting. And everyone thinks that they're a pro at it. Right? No one wants to let go. And I think, you know, there's, to a certain degree, our professions have been devalued, okay. And particularly if you don't know how to separate yourself and how to present yourself to clients and to customers. Right. I think, look, more than anything, it's really important that you identify what you're going to stand for, okay. And then really present consistently. Because branding is all about consistency. It's not about just creating a brand. And that's it. I'm done for the next 10 years. You know, I'll sit back, right? Branding is a constant process. Branding is about, you know, you building on that, developing more, you know, if it's new materials, develop those new materials in line with your brand. You know, the way you speak. If you end up using, you know, other people on your team or hiring people, fantastic. Then they need to know as well what the brand stands for and how they should be communicating, talking to clients, you know, because all of that experience is what people remember and that's what people connect with. Yeah. So that's, you know, it's. Branding is. Is something that is, I guess, not understood properly.

Yeah.

And is something. And is something that, you know, is so worthwhile even if you're a freelancer, you know, it's about making a unique mark for yourself.

Is it a little bit like the kind of the uns it's like. Is it like the virtual body language of your business where it's not just the physical interactions, but it's. It's those judgments that prospects make about your company before they're anywhere close to hiring you. So maybe they're looking to create some video content, so they Google video producer in the area in which you live. And up comes a bunch of websites. And the first thing that we all start doing is going to start clicking down. Look at these ones. Click, click, click, click, click. Until something catches your eye that resonates with you. And so I think what you're saying is it's about A conscious decision to dig into who am I as a person, as a brand, as a product, service or otherwise. And how is that communicated in every possible way out to the marketplace.

Absolutely. You know, you need to be very clear on your target market. You know, be very clear of how I'm going to present myself, what do I want them to think about me. Okay. Branding is perception. Branding is especially at that, you know, initial stage, you know, when someone's searching, looking, and they find your website, for example, and they visit that site. If that site's complicated, it's, it's all over the place. You know, I don't even know what's happening here. It doesn't look professional. Okay. Instantly that's something that just triggers. No, these people are not for me. Right, yeah. And that happens to all of us with everything. It's not, you know, just specific to us, it's specific to anything. Like if you want to, I don't know, you want to buy something new, some new furniture, and you start searching, you're going to choose the people that have, you know, the right kind of furniture for you, that are presented in a particular way that you can see, you know, the piece of furniture in every single angle and it convinces you that this is quality, you know, it's the whole experience that has to happen.

I think also perhaps that if you had a prospect looking for video and they look at the 10 or 12 websites that show up on a Google search, one clearly looks like a one man band. They're trying to make themselves feel like a big company. And that's always a big giveaway. And I never think you should try and pretend to be anything other than you are. By all means, don't say if you work from your bedroom, spare bedroom, that here I'm a one man, my works from a spare bedroom. You don't need to do that. But I think there's a balance between not pretending or trying to give the impression that you're a corporation because it just, you know, usually the mobile phone number on the website gives that away. But what are the steps? I guess what are the things that on a practical level would be the most obvious starting points for? Let's say you were doing a brand analysis and you were reviewing or giving an audit of someone's business. What kind of things would you be looking at?

Sure. So what we do with our clients, for example, is we look straight away at who they are as a business. So what that means is why are you doing the business? Okay, what's the purpose of the business, you got involved in this for a reason. You're passionate about it. What are you passionate about specifically? And really trying to niche down into an area. Because we can't be jack of all trades, right? Because we'll be end up competing with thousands of people and we'll be driving our prices down and down and down. So it's important to I guess, single out your purpose. Why are you doing this business then? It's important to have a look at your target audience. Okay, who am I really going to target? You know, what's something that really drives me? If it's the corporate sector? Well then let's think corporate. Who do I need to speak to in that kind of area? What kind of language do they use? What language should I be using in order to engage them? You know, it's about really speaking their language. Because if you don't speak their language, you'll lose them, you'll lose them straight away. Right. Once you have that basis, that groundwork, then you can start looking at your identity, how you're presenting yourself. Right. And that of course includes, yes, a logo, your color palette, your typography, your website preference, your social media channels, making sure that they're all aligned and they're all consistent in their appearance. And of course all of this already adds to a degree of trust. So when people start seeing that, oh no, they're a serious business and you know, going back to your point, it might be just one person working from home, but it doesn't matter, right? You don't need to be the corporation, like you said, you know, trying to compete on all these levels because you're not, you're not competing with them. But it's critical that you define who you are. Okay, you can be that one man band, but if you're that one man band who's an expert at this, you know, A, B and C, then, you know, use that, use that to your advantage. That's, that's, that's, you know, essentially the, the basics of branding. It's about getting out there and speaking to the right people and telling your story.

I love that. And of course as filmmakers, we're all about telling stories. We're all about telling our story to the world because that's what we do for clients. We take clients, businesses and we tell stories around them. We create beautiful films that help communicate. So it kind of makes sense to me. And I'm kind of almost embarrassed at the ignorance that I had around branding because I think I got confused by the word branding as Something that Mercedes do to sell cars. But of course, and maybe it's just the word, and you mentioned it earlier, that, you know, there's a misconception around branding. So what would you be if someone's, you know, starting out or in the first few years of business, you know, money's tight, cash flow is tight. What are some of the things they can be looking at doing themselves to get a better sort of impression to the market?

So definitely, I mean, like, it's just kind of what I, what I mentioned in terms of understanding who you can actually target. You know, try not to be that one guy for everything. You know, it's about niching down and really doing what you love. And if that's one sector, then target that sector. Okay. Once you're clear on that direction, it'll make everything else really easy in terms of your strategic choices, where you should be investing your money, whether that's a new website, whether that's a, you know, new video or whatever it may be. Right. It's about understanding where you're heading. Once you know where you're heading, then you can start designing. Yeah, definitely. Your logo, you know, your identity, your website, social media channels, they're the basics, the fundamentals that anyone can have. Okay, it's cost effective. It's not that you have to spend, you know, an arm and a leg getting that up and running. There's a lot of services out there that can help, particularly at that freelancer stage where of course, money is tight and, you know, you need to be very careful about where you're putting your funds. But, you know, it's not an excuse to not have a professional presence and you'll find that if you don't have it, you will struggle to build that business and you will struggle to be taken seriously.

It almost feels like you can get by. One of the things I'm really observing in the marketplace just now is that there was a time until fairly recently where a great show, real word of mouth recommendation was enough for most small video businesses and designers to get by. But I feel like there's just so much disruption in the marketplace. Now we've got 90 seconds, we've got other businesses that are providing sort of done for you, editing and using stock footage that I feel like, you know, whilst the market's expanding, there's also more competition for that kind of work. And I don't know that many businesses automatically think, now we'll get someone to shoot and edit a film for us because that's going to be expensive. So it's almost as if you have to step up what you're offering the market today in order to survive and, and, and keep your head above the kind of massive of competition. And it feels to me as if, if your business is up maybe doing 50,000 to 100,000 a year in revenue, if you want to continue to do that and grow.

Then, then, then, then investing something in how your branding and message goes to market. It's always been a very intangible cost Ve. But what I'm feeling is that if you want to attract businesses to take you more seriously, then there are certain things you have to have in place. And if I understand you correctly, with the democratization of so much around design and production and music and content creation, there are now apps that do everything. But this isn't about a tactical approach. I mean, there are tactics employed. What I'm getting the sense is this is about psychology and understanding how are you communicating your message to market. And I guess that's where a company like you come in. Is that how you spend a lot of your time is actually in that psychology part of the process?

Yes. Well, see, branding is all about psychology. You know, there's a famous saying that says the strategist kills a tactician, right? Because it's true. Someone who, someone who strategizes always is going to have a better success rate than one who just uses the latest tactic to get by. Right? So it's, it's really important that we just understand that we have to differentiate ourselves. You know, you were saying that there's, you know, there's so many people out there doing all these different services and, you know, 90 seconds and all these. And it's true, right? But how do you, you know, what's your value proposition? How do you just separate yourself from that? What value, what added value are you giving your client that those guys aren't? Right? Like, I don't know what it's like in the videography, in the video field, right? But it's the same for the design, the design realm, right? A design on designs or, you know, upwork and those kinds of places is a design. That's it, right? There's no strategy behind it. There's no thinking about it. It's just a nice graphic. Okay? But a nice graphic is not branding and a nice graphic is not going to get you more sales, okay? It's not going to, it's not going to do anything for you. So branding is about understanding who you are, understanding what your value proposition is. What can I add to my client or what can I give them that is so different and is so unique that they'll always choose me, not someone else.

Yeah.

That'S kind of what comes from, you know, brand strategy. You know, really understanding who you are as a business and where you want to take it and how we're going to get you there.

Absolutely. It's so clear. You know.

If a business is searching for a provider of video services they're looking for, in most cases are looking for a long term partnership. Sometimes people are buying on price, but less than you would think. And I think what happens is my market very much focuses on price and I think that's because they're very focused on price because of a scarcity mentality. And I feel that.

If you're going to play the long game, which is always the best game to play. You know, I've used this phrase a number of times, but I think it's from Tony Robbins and he says, you know, most people wildly overestimate what they can achieve in a year, but underestimate what they can achieve in five. And I feel like the creative industries always spend very much all the time in tunnel vision worrying about the next few months. And so as a result are putting sticking places across parts of the business. And I say this is something, this is what I've done myself. I've, you know, gone from a WordPress site to a Squarespace site and I copy a template and I use that for one. I do some copywriting courses and I feel like I'm always adding, adding tactics to a kind of strategy until such times it becomes like kind of vegetable soup where you can put carrots and peas and, and other vegetables and a soup, but once the soup's mush, you can't pull the vegetables out on their own again and it just becomes this slightly sticky mess. And I feel that that's what happens in small business is that very few people are A focusing on a niche and B, focusing on how they're communicating their value to the market that they're targeting.

Yeah, I think what you said there is perfect. It's spot on. Right. Most of us just go as we go, kind of start adding things, changing things, modifying things on one side and on the other. And again, that is where we all go wrong because when we don't do the strategy from the start, that's where things get messy. It's as simple as this. If you have a clear brand strategy and what that means really is a clear business strategy, if you have a Clear business strategy, you're going to be able to move forward without having to worry about what should I be doing now and what kind of tactics should I be using to attract more. And all of that becomes irrelevant because you'll know exactly where you're heading, who you need to speak to, what channels you need to use. You know, it all becomes very clear in a process, right? So if you invest the time and, yes, a little bit of money in getting that process right and getting that strategy right, then, you know, the rest becomes easy. And like you said, it is a long term game, right? We're always rushed and trying to get, you know, that next sale in the door. But that's not the right way to go about things. And it is a scarcity mentality. You know, we need to think long term. We need to, you know, put things in place, systems and processes to make sure that we can execute and make sure that we can get to that goal that we, you know, that we got into business for, you know, yeah, the freedom.

But we all got into business because we wanted freedom. And what ends up happening in small business, we end up having multiple jobs at very, very low hourly rates. But there's a cycle there. And what happens is you kind of have a good year and then you have a not so good year or a good month and not so good month. And I feel we're always focused on what's in it for us rather than, I think what prevents most small video production businesses getting bigger clients and bigger paying clients is they're too busy, stuck in a freelance mentality, which is, I don't want to pay for that, I want to save money. And I totally like, as someone who is a complete and utter cynic, this is a waste of money. I can now see how important it is, especially today. And I use this analogy a lot. But look at what happened to taxis. I think a lot of freelance filmmakers are now like taxis. They're sitting there hoping that someone will stop them and say, come and make a video for me. They're reliant on the fact they've always been around and this is always the way they've done it. But Ubers are in there now and Ola and Taxify and all these other companies who are saying we want to make it easier for you and 90 seconds to refer to 90 seconds. You know, I've heard a number of people complaining about, you know, certainly from the freelance creator market, oh, they only charge this and they only charge that and there's that kind of freelance Scarcity. The fact is 90 seconds have an incredible brand, an incredible presence. They're not a huge company, but they've raised a lot of funding and they're solving a problem. Which means that I can hire a crew in London and LA and Chicago tomorrow and deal with one person, have that content filmed, have that content back to me, have it edited at a very, very reasonable rate without having to pay. Travel, hotels. They are solving a problem for the market. Now, whether you love, hate or otherwise, the fact is the market is shifting. And I feel that if smaller companies don't start embracing this by thinking of new ways or existing ways to present themselves better, then they're fucked. You know, it's simply getting to a stage now where they're screwed. And the taxi drivers now, you know, they tried in certain places to kind of ban Uber and I know that it's banned in London just now, but other companies have popped up, taxi drivers are dying. They're a dying breed. And that's just the market shifting. And I feel that, that we know one of the benefits of the democratization of a market is that people like you come from big organizations like Sony, like Qantas, and are bringing that breadth of experience and strategies and tried and tested approaches, but applying them to a small business. So actually the small business freelancer can effectively become a bigger brand by a big, appear like a bigger business just because they're using the same brand strategies that use with Sony or with Qantas. I think it's an incredible opportunity and I guess.

You know, we've now got access to people like your company that can help the small business owner just up their game.

Definitely. I mean, look, just to touch on something that you mentioned about.

You know, going to Mighty Designs, for example, because it's a lot easier and you know, you're fulfilling the need of the customer, which ultimately, you know, that's, that's what all business is, right? We're fulfilling a need in our clients or our customers lives now. You know, something that just came to mind, for example, if I was filming one from personal experience, my wife, if she was to, you know, to start looking for a videographer for our wedding, for example, right. She won't go to, you know, Upwork or 90designs or any of these places for that. Okay. Because her values and what she believes in is, you know, this is a unique experience. It's going to be something I've dreamt about for so many years and I want it to be spectacular and I need to make sure, okay? Like all Those ideas, all those thoughts drive her to look for something different. Okay? She's not going to go to that, she's going to find a specialist, someone who is, you know, all they do is wedding videos, you know, that they just guns at it, that they speak her language, you know, they know how important these days to, you know, to her and to the whole family, you know, and that is what it's all about, right? It's like it's not about competing with 90 designs. It's not about competing with, you know, all these other freelance crowdsourcing type websites. It's about really understanding who your market is and really tailoring yourself to them. Yeah. Fulfill their need. And if you do that, you don't have that issue that we have to be competing with all these other freelancers and, you know, driving to the bottom price, you know, you need, you can sustain your price, you can even raise your prices if you're good at what you do, you can even raise prices, you know, but it's like you said, the scarcity mentality makes people think that they're competing with these, you know, these other platforms, you know, that are doing it so cheaply and it's just not worth it. Right. For us.

And just adding to that, you know, 90 seconds exists, it provides a great service for a lot of people. And if a client says, oh well, you know, I can come to you, but you're going to cost X, but I can go to 90 seconds and it costs Y, do you go, okay, well you've got the option, haven't you? If you want to go to 90 seconds, that's your prerogative. We offer a more bespoke service. It's entirely up to you, what's right for you. Maybe 90 seconds, you know, that more cost effective route is what you need. And being willing to own your brand in a way that goes, I have a certain value. If you can't afford that, that's okay.

And look, it goes back to that same example at the pharmacy, right? There's a market for everyone and for everything, okay? So people who do need that, you know, that really cheap approach or whatever it may be, you know, might be a fantastic service for them, but there are other people that are not looking for that. They're looking for something a bit more spectacular. Okay? And the same with the, you know, the branded products at the pharmacy, same thing. There'll be people that choose the brand, there'll be two people that choose generic. It's just a way of life, right? We can't we can't please everyone.

And if you've done your logo on a $399, $99 designs competition, you know, they come back a certain way. It's a cheap logo put onto a templated website that looks the same as every other templated website and doesn't have any, that doesn't have great copywriting, doesn't have a great voice, then you're always going to be fighting for the bottom of the market because you're not actually preparing. You're not prepared to invest in doing your side of the bargain properly. So I can kind of see it's like almost like a vicious circle. If you keep doing things on the cheap, you're attracting cheap clients. Whereas if you spend a little bit of money and you know, it's always interesting and you know, this may not be a popular comment to make on a business filmmakers blog, but I see so many filmmakers justify expensive equipment purchases. Accessories, sliders, tripods, lenses, I need this, I need that lighting also. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment. And what happens to that equipment, because I'm guilty of this, is you buy it because you think, I need that particular bit of equipment because that will give me an edge, and then it sits in a cupboard making you no money. Whereas investing in yourself, investing in great expertise. Take the word branding out of the equation. If I can pay you, with your 15 years of experience in industry to tell me how I can make my brand more articulate and speak more directly to my target market, that's a great investment.

Because I'm going to be talking to more of my market and they're going to go, that guy understands me. And if I can describe their problems better than this can. And they come to my site and they go, this guy seems to understand this on such a deep level. That's an incredible investment.

Yeah. And look, and it goes back to the whole fact that, you know, we're not jack of all trades. We can't do everything on our own. We can't, you know, we're not experts at everything. You know, it's just the same as if I need a professional video done. You know, I know that I can't do it on my own. It's not my, it's not my field of expertise. Okay. I need to get someone in who knows exactly what they're doing. Same with photography or design or whatever it might be. Yeah. Business in general, even having a good business mentor, having people that can, you know, guide you and point you in the right direction, you Know, it's critical for success. If not, we just continue on that, you know, that vicious cycle of, like you said, you know, cheap service here, cheap service there, and then we're worried because we can't charge more, you know what I mean? Like we're playing the same game, you know, we're attracting that same, that same vibe. So, yeah, it's important to invest where it's necessary.

Yeah. And of course, you know, you only need to invest in your branding once. I mean, you can probably update it, but it's about getting that theme. Something else I want to touch on. David, you and I met when we were part of a business group and there's a whole other conversation there about the value of being in business networking groups or being part of masterminds. But I remember I posted a website, I created a website and I thought it looked pretty good, but I remember at the time just how articulate your feedback was and it just, I guess it's just blow smoke up your ass here a little bit because I hadn't realized. I thought it looked good and it had the right components. But you just brought so much experience when you assessed that website. And I'm not expecting you to remember what you said, but I remember you saying, describing how each tab of the website had a specific purpose. It was like an About Us page and a homepage and services. And I just wonder if you can share a little bit about some of the psychology behind that. Because I remember at the time just thinking this was just gold because it just, it was things I hadn't thought of. And I guess that's where I just saw the instant value. I was like, oh my God. I, I'm not. I suppose as a creative I was a little bit ego driven. It's like, well, this is a great looking website. My stuff's good. I work with Robbie Williams, I've got this great stuff. You know, I'm kind of somebody. But what came across with the analysis of my website was that just wasn't coming through. And I just wondered if you could share a bit about the kind of the psychology behind what a website should really be doing.

Sure. So I guess the number one thing you want to be doing is making sure that you're taking your customer or your client through a journey. You need to think of it as from their perspective. What are they looking for? Are they looking to know about you? Are they looking to see your work? What, what comes first? Yeah, it's really important to plan out your website, for example, before you actually build It. Whilst we can design really beautiful websites and a lot of people can, it's not everything, right? We've been to sites where it's beautiful, but it's just really complex or I'm not finding what I need to find or where do I have to go to do this? When you simplify that process and you make it almost, almost a step by step, you're taking them through the whole website. Whether that's, you know, this is what I've done. This is what I'm all about. This is who I am, my experience. Contact me now, right? It just becomes a seamless process. It just. People just understand, they feel it, they, you know, have a good experience with it and they're always going to be more, more prone to contact you, you know, more engaged to actually connect. Then if you're going to frustrate them with, you know, with things that they don't want to see right now, or you find the information they want is too hidden or placed in the wrong, you know, in the wrong spot. So just always keeping that, you know, in the back of your mind, it's always about them. It's never about us.

This just drives me to this beautiful point that the about us page on a website is always where I see the biggest mistakes, because it's actually not about us. Us. Is it?

Correct? Correct. Yeah. We don't want to be, you know, it's not about selling our whole life story and us being around for, you know, 40 years and we've done this and we've done that and look how special we are. Right? Because at the end of the day, no one really cares.

Nobody cares about us. They care about what's happening to them.

Exactly. So, you know, what do I want? I want this. I want to know, you know, can they do it, what they've done before? Let me see it. Okay, how do I contact them? Right, that's, that's the, you know, people have become so skeptical now of everything. You know, no one believes anything they read or they see. They, you know, it's. It's important to cut through all that. Yeah. Understand who are your audience needs. Show them what they need and guide them, guide them along the way. Show them how to.

Back to the analogy in the chemist. You know, they've got a headache, they're looking for a tablet and they're just trying to choose which one and they want the one that's going to fix their problem as quickly as possible.

Exactly right.

That's awesome. David. This has been fantastically fascinating and you know, any. Any closing tips? If someone is, you know, considering this, this sort of whole area, what. What would the next steps be for someone who's interested in perhaps, you know, going further than what they can do themselves?

Sure. So I think, look, the first thing that you should do is audit your business, have a look at your own business, have a look at what you're doing. You know, do your social media channels, do your website, does your marketing materials, does the way that you speak, the way you quote people, invoice, whatever it is, all of that, does it all look cohesive? Does it all look like it's heading in the same direction? That's the basic principle, right. Have a look at your business, how it is now. You'll start to see patterns straight away. Okay. You start to see areas where, oh, well, this is kind of not. Not, you know, not communicating the right message or this needs updating. You know, it's important to bring it all back home, bring it all in. Okay. And then really have a think about where you want to take the business. Okay. Because I've seen a lot of people, you know, trying to do everything, you know, like we said, the videos, the weddings, the, you know, the corporate video that this video. Try to really hone in on something niche down, okay. You'll find that you'll have a lot more success, a lot more energy, and just a better outcome when you start niching.

It's so true, especially because when you actually niche down to one area, then you realize how much work there is to do to just get that one area communicated effectively out to all the channels in the potential market.

100%. 100%. There's a lot of work to be done. And that expertise, that focus, is what your audience will love about you. Right. They'll love that you're that into it and that you know so much about this area and you're, you know, you're proving your authority, you know, and that's key, right? When you can build up that authority factor, when you can build up that trust, you know, it's much more likely that they'll convert rather than, you know, jump your site and go to someone else, you know, so it's really important to first audit your business and then have a look at what. How you want to take the business forward, your strategic direction, and then making sure that you're consistent in everything that you do.

Fantastic. David, this has been brilliant. I'm so grateful that you've given up your time to be with us today, folks. Thank you very much. For joining us another episode of the Business for Filmmakers podcast. I'm going to post David's details below and see if I can't twist his arm to create some sort of offer for for anyone who wants an audit of the business. That's something you could potentially do if we. I'm just. I'm just putting on the spot here.

But yeah, yeah, no, that's fine. Yeah, that's. We can come up with something.

So we'll post a link below. And thanks for joining us on this episode of Business Filmmakers Podcast and we'll see you next time.

You've been listening to the Business for Creatives podcast with your host, me, Dan Lenny. If you're a creative business owner who is struggling to get your business performing at the level you want, then head on over to business for creat podcast.com to take a free business evaluation survey and discover where you can plug the holes in your business. You can also access a range of free training to help you build your business faster. Also, don't forget to rate the show over on itunes so we can get the message out there to more creatives who need to hear it. Thanks for listening.