BFC #004 - How a Former Truck Driver dove into an Underwater Imaging Business with Peter Lightowler

You're listening to the Business for Creatives podcast where each week we uncover the secrets to balancing creativity and business all in the one place with your host, me, Dan Lenny.

Well, welcome folks, to this episode of the Business for Creatives podcast. I am thrilled to finally pin down today's guest. Pete is someone I've known for about four or five years and the main reason we've had Strug getting him on the show is because he spends a lot of his time underwater. G', day, Pete. How are you going?

Yeah, good, thanks, Dan. And yourself?

Very good, thanks, Pete. Why don't you tell us to start off with what it is you do today? What is your core business today?

It'll be a mixture of both retail sales and underwater filming, which would compromise stock footage sales as well. So, yeah, bit of a mixture there.

So you are now a massive specialist in underwater filming here in Australia. You supply Gates housings, which are bespoke housings, to the underwater industry. For what kind of cameras? What kind of cameras are you supplying housings for now? It used to be the days we thought it was like a DSLR would go in the housing or a film camera, but you know, what kind of housings are being built these days?

The red cameras. They're all the different red formats, by far the most popular. But you know, things like the Sony F55 or F5, also the Phantom Flex 4K. Yeah. So those more sort of cinema, high end cinema cameras is what Gates are marketing themselves.

So listen, let's go back a bit because what I like to do is find out a bit about, you know, Pete and how you ended up in this position. So give us a bit of a history. What's the background? How did you end up doing underwater filming and tell us your story.

So I guess like most people, I fell into it to some degree. You know, I learned to dive many years ago, about 14 years ago now. Brought a stills camera and quickly realized that a still image just didn't captivate me like a moving image did. So I decided to get myself into underwater video. Brought my first video camera, watched that on the TV that I had at the time and quickly realized that I was probably the worst person to have ever picked up a video camera and tried to shoot it underwater. It was, yeah, it was all sorts of bad. And then I quickly realized that, you know, in order to improve myself, I needed to do some sort of training. I sought out a particular gentleman here in Sydney that taught me a lot of stuff that I knew or a lot of stuff that I needed to know at the beginning, and then, you know, that just opened up a lot of doors to getting work and meeting people within the industry. You know, it's one of those things from small things, bigger things grow. Yeah.

And, you know, you now make your primary living from filming underwater and selling housings. That's not how you started, is it? Because, I mean, for many people, the idea of fulfilling your passion by generating your income from the thing you love is a dream, but you made it a reality, albeit through a slightly unusual process, one that, you know, if it's not too painful to bring up, you know, tell me about how. Where you are like five years ago, what was happening in your life and how did that incident change everything?

Yeah, so I was actually driving a truck full time, and the filming side was, you know, just. If a job came up and I could get a day off work, I'd go and do it. Trying to match those two together was always pretty hard. You know, there was a lot of times that I couldn't take on the work. And then through. Through the contacts that I'd made, I got in touch with the owner of Gates. And just the following 12 months, we just built up a really good relationship and working relationship.

And then I had an accident, actually, at work, and forklift driver dropped a pellet on my back, fractured my spine. And that was the sort of the turning point that, I guess that made me realize that life really is short. And you hear all these stories of people that, you know, go through the rest of their life thinking that they should have done this and should have done that, and that was, yeah, for me, that was, you know, laying on the ground there with a broken back was, you know, just thinking, okay, what, you know, the recovery process, what am I actually going to do with my life? You know, this could have all been over in a heartbeat. So it kind of gives you some focus on what you want to do. And you don't just continue.

You know, just live every day. It's like you need to actually go and do what you want to do and chase those dreams. So, yeah, that was a huge turning point for me in my life.

I mean, it must have been. There's the psychological journey when you're lying on the ground with a broken back. I mean, what kind of things are going through your mind?

The first thing I kept thinking was, can I move? You know, I mean, you can't even describe the pain, but, you know, I kept wiggling my toes, just thinking that if I could move my feet, then I Knew that I could still walk. That was the main thing. And then, yeah, laying hospital for five or six days, you know, it's, yeah, it's that emotional journey of, you know, you're angry, then you're happy that you're still alive and, you know, all these emotions that you go through. But I think the following three to six months was what gave me the focus that I didn't want to go back to driving the truck. And I just wanted to focus on what I wanted to do in the future. Because, yeah, you know, life could literally be over tomorrow for all you know. So I didn't want to just live doing the same thing that I'd done. I actually wanted to live a life that I really wanted.

I think that's such a. I mean, you know, I wish it hadn't happened that you'd broken your back for that to happen. But I talked to so many creative people who maybe have a job in it or have a job doing something else. They always dream about doing that. The real, the real life goal stuff. Yeah, it's interesting that it takes a near death experience or a near paralysis experience to I guess get you into a position where you go, right, I'm gonna do this now. So moving on now. So who do you primarily help and work with these days? Cause I saw some stuff on Facebook. You were shooting a commercial recently. I mean, like the journey from truck driver to shooting commercials. I mean, that's a pretty, it's a pretty epic story, Pete.

Yeah, it's a bit long winded, but yeah, I guess it's not all that different to most people's stories really. You need to get that first job to get the second. And the more people that you work with, the bigger that pool of talent becomes and the more opportunities that you get. But yeah, I just started out doing a half day shoot here and lucky enough to get. Well, initially it was just unpaid work. Like I'm sure probably everybody listening to this would have gone through at one point in time. You need to get your name out there and you need to have some credits and all that sort of stuff. But this is a very niche market and it's, you know, there's. Realistically, there's probably three or four people in the country that are doing this at a high level. I'm very lucky that I'm very good friends with all of those people. So, you know, I think surrounding yourself with like minded people helps as well. And yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm extremely lucky that the competition so to speak is also my best friends. You know, it's, it's a very small market to be in. So yeah, just knowing those people and having such good relationships with the other people doing this sort of work, you know, we bounce all the work off each other and you know, but being able to commit to it full time as well was a big changing point for me as well. You know, being able to take on the work at the last minute, which initially was the stuff that I was getting. And it was like the guys doing it full time couldn't take on a job that came up for tomorrow. So I would get a phone call and then I'd have to ring the boss and try and beg and plead to get a day off and just, you know, as I said, I had to say no to a lot more jobs than I could say yes to. But now that time is more free, I can, you know, I can take on last minute jobs and you know, that's been a huge game changer for me, being able to commit to it 100% time wise.

So it's a very niche industry and it's amazing that everyone shares the work because sometimes, you know, in the filmmaking industry particularly there can be a bit of rivalry. It's so encouraging that you guys just share everything, but obviously you're, you're not in the water filming every day and it sounds like it can be quite ad hoc. So. So how did you decide to kind of bolster that? I guess the commercial sides running a business? Because could you make a living just as an underwater shooter? Would that be possible in Australia?

Yes, there's probably a couple of people that are doing it as a full time job, but they're not just shooting underwater, they're mixing up with some topside shooting as well. But yeah, there's a couple of people that I know that primarily their income is from shooting underwater. So yes, it's possible.

In Australia. It's such a small market. So compared to somewhere like the US where there's just more productions happening, you've got a better chance obviously of doing this full time in the us Just simply there's more productions versus Australia where the amount of underwater stuff that's shot is a very small percentage. And then there's every man and their dog wants to get into the scene. So everyone with a GoPro and with a Canon 5D Mark 4 or whatever, you know, they'll offer their services for free. So yeah, at the beginning it's very hard industry to get into, but I.

Would imagine like, like you know, you can give anyone a Alexa doesn't, doesn't mean they're going to shoot like Roger Deakins and I would imagine. And like aerial filming, for example, you know, the underwater. There's a lot of skills to getting a great shot. I mean, you can't just hand the Phantom to anyone and get an amazing shot. And you were just talking before we came on air there about, you know, the challenges you face trying to set up particular shots. So do you go into scenarios going, right, I want to try and get this exact type of species doing this in this location. Is that something, I mean, you were talking about stock footage. Is that, is that something you're continually building up a library of for stock footage?

Yeah, it's, it's a constant pursuit trying to find the animal that you're looking for, doing the particular behavior that you want and being there and able to capture it. Because it's not just the animal, it's the conditions as well. So, for instance, a few nights ago, I was diving around Sydney one night and I've been looking for blue ring octopus, trying to get a sequence together of blue ring octopus. And the most amazing activity was happening. There was three blue rings, all hunting, big size, beautiful colors, everything that I was looking for. But there was so much plankton in the water that I couldn't see about 10 centimeters in front of the lens. So I had all this action. The perfect shot was right there. I was watching it, but I couldn't see it because the video lights were on to light up the shot. And they just attracted all the plankton, like mosquitoes, you know, attracted to the outdoor light. It's exactly what that is. And so I literally didn't get a shot because the camera, you know, couldn't see through all the painting. But yeah, seeing the, seeing the stuff that you want to film and actually filming it are two very different things.

Having done a bit of diving, I was. My first dive was in Australia in 1992, up on the, on the Barrier Reef. And I think growing up in Scotland, as I did, watching natural history programs with, you know, BBC, you just A, think that the sun shines in Australia all the time and B, when you just step into the ocean, it's infinite visibility and everything looks amazing. But of course, the real skill as an underwater DP is just the amount of commitment you have to make to diving the same site repeatedly to get that one moment where the conditions are perfect. Is that something that you find yourself doing a lot of? I mean, we had to cancel this Broadcast recording last week. Because you jumped into the water to go and do a shoot, do you find you have to be quite willing to just get in the water at a moment's notice?

Yeah, very much so. My dive gear usually lives in the back of my car. It's very rare, actually. I washed it last night for the first time in about six weeks. Yeah. The only time the dive gear comes out is for the tanks to get refilled. So, yeah, most of the time the car is just full of wet dive gear. The cameras are always in the state of, you know, being able to be thrown together in, you know, 10 minutes and put in the car and off you go. Because you just never know when the phone rings. And it's not just even work, it's, as I said, the stock footage, when the conditions are right, being, you know, having the flexible time to do what I want now means that, you know, if at 4 o' clock this afternoon I might decide, hey, you know, the conditions are really good, gonna be a really good sunset, seas are flat, I can just go and shoot. And that's, you know. Yeah, just being able to have that freedom to do that is what makes a big difference. If you're always tied down to particular times, then you're probably never gonna get any of the stuff that you want because nature never plays the way you want it to play. You've got to be there and commit to it 100%. Yeah. Things don't just happen because you decided to go for a dive once a month. You know, I try and get out. I mean, I've been diving probably three or four nights a week for the last month or so, just because I've got this one particular sequence that I want to film with blue rings. And, you know, despite all of those times, I still haven't got the shots, all of the shots that I want. So it's just. You just got to keep getting out there and keep doing it, basically.

Yeah. And I mean, just. I want to talk a bit about your kind of journey because, you know, it's one thing to be passionate about diving. Dive gear is not cheap. The housings are very bespoke. You know, the cameras that you put in them are not. Are not, Are not cheap.

What was that journey like? What was the career journey like when you were kind of like, okay, I'm going to start doing this more, do a few jobs. Tell me the story about how you went from, you know, doing a few gigs to. To taking on the dealership for Gates, because presumably that had that had a bit of investment by it. You've taken on a premises. I mean, what kind of things go through your head as a creative taking on that responsibility with a view to, you know, taking a bit of a gamble, you know, but getting into retail in the current age, you would think would be a pretty crazy thing to do. But tell me a bit about that journey.

Yeah, a lot of fear, Quite a lot of fear, a lot of self doubt. But I guess I believed in myself to know that what I was offering was customer service and products was different to what everybody else that was all of my competitors, I guess I think this industry is known as it has a very low level of customer service. So that was one thing that I've tried to focus on and that's really helped to set me apart from my competition and with the retail side of it. The fact that I do do the work, I get paid to shoot underwater, which gives me a constant understanding of the changing environment, what's happening in the world, what cameras are the go to cameras? Why are they happening? Why are they the go to cameras? So I can pass on that experience to the customers. And I think a lot of customers pick up on that. I'm not just there selling them something, I'm passing on experience and explaining things to them that they may not have even realized. And I think that's been a key part of my success. I think if I had just decided to do retail only, I don't think I would have been as successful as I am now because how would I compete with everybody else that's doing the same job? You know, most of the other people that are in retail aren't doing the shooting and are doing it professionally as well. So I guess that sets me apart from, yeah, from the rest of the.

Competition and presumably as a, as an underwater dp. Who, who, who retails housings from Gates? That gives you a direct line to Gates when it comes to modifications design. I mean they must really appreciate your feedback and your channel of traffic going back to them as well. I mean you can take what the guys tell you in the field and from your own experience and just feed that directly back. How has that influenced the evolution of design?

Quite a lot actually. So Gates just released a brand new housing only six, eight weeks ago or something for the new Sony AX 700 Handycam. And I did quite a lot of research on the previous model of that camera, the AX100. And so a lot of the product testing that I did with that camera was relaying that directly to Gates. And when Gates made the housing for the AX 700, they made a few key changes that have just helped mainly with the ergonomics. Being able to access the white balance function, you know, focus peaking and a few other. A few other sort of fingertip controls that just make life so much easier for us underwater rather than having to spend time digging through menu systems to get up, you know, to get access to a function that we want. Just being able to have that at fingertip control just makes a huge difference. So, yeah, I've been actually playing with the. With the latest AX 700 housing in the shop in the last week and, you know, just the. The features that we're able to build into that now are just so much nicer to use. So, yeah, that direct feedback is something that's made a big difference. And it's even to the point now that when customers from all over the world get in contact with Gates and are asking sort of technical questions about color and ergonomics and whatnot, then the owner of Gates is actually CC me in the emails and sort of getting me to help out with a lot of the customer service support that they're experiencing as well. Yeah, stuff that's just beyond their housing. You know, when people are asking specific questions about cameras, then I'm getting involved in that as well now. Yeah.

Well, it's interesting. You talk, you mentioned color there, and, you know, the first thing that I was surprised about when I first dived 25 years ago was as soon as you get below about 10 meters, everything's just blue.

Yeah.

And you've been through quite some extensive. I mean, you call yourself a colorist. You're not someone who dabbles in color. You've gone through extensive training both hereafters and with Warren Eagles. Like, why was that such an important part of your journey?

I think at the beginning. So I guess to take it back a step, I'm one of those people that if I commit to something, I go 100% into it. So for me, it's either it's all or nothing. And so at the beginning of my journey, I quickly realized that all of the footage that I was watching on TV or video, the majority of it, it was on TV and in shows and whatnot. The colors just. They just weren't there. Everything was blue or green. And as I started to experiment a bit more with color just on my own terms, I realized that there was a lot more to it. But the information just doesn't exist out there. Nobody's really explored it. In an underwater sense and made that public information. So learning how to color grade underwater footage a few years ago was almost impossible. It was just trial and error. And so.

One of my sort of things that I live by is that always continue to train, never just rest on your laurels and think this is good enough. So I quickly realized that no one was doing underwater color grading or maybe a couple of people in the world. And that information wasn't out there to be seen. And it was something that just a passion that just ignited within me. And so then, yeah, I did some training with Warren Eagles, the International Colorist Academy, and I spent five days up in Brisbane learning the basics of resolve. And that just, you know, that passion just grew from there. And I think it's become a niche thing that nobody else is doing the color grading and the testing to the level that I'm doing. And it's just something that I absolutely love doing. So, yeah, you know, I'm always trying to learn something.

I don't think anyone could ever say they know everything, so. Always trying to learn something. Yeah, yeah.

So listen, I want to talk a bit about, you know, it sounds like everything's going great and we've known each other for quite a while now. And I know that you were, you know, three or four years ago. It wasn't quite as easy as it perhaps is now. And I use the word easy very carefully because, you know, ease comes through a lot of hard work and commitment and risk and fear and overcoming fear.

Was there ever a point when you were, you know, on this journey where you thought, I may have bitten off a bit more than I can chew? You know, was there a moment where you, can you tell us about. You look like you're laughing. So sounds like there might be a story here, share that with us.

You know, people don't see the backside, the back end of what goes on. So there was times where I was still in the transition phase, so I was working, still driving the truck full time and I was at AFTRS basically doing a full time job there. So the night courses and stuff that I was doing there was, you know, 30 to 40 hours a week. I was working, you know, 38 hours a week in a job and I was running my own business that was probably taking up 40 hours a day at that point, you know, so, you know, there was times there where I was literally just getting home at like 2 o' clock in the morning, showering and going back to driving the truck at 3am just not sleeping or literally getting an hour or two sleep and you know, you could push through that for a few days, but there certainly got times where I was just hit the wall, just mentally and physically exhausted and just thought, you know, what am I doing? Like, this is crazy. But, you know, I knew that there was a light at the end of the tunnel. I knew where I was going. I never doubted that. And so to me it was, you know, that's the short term plane to get where I wanted to, where I wanted to go. And, you know, there was no other way to do it for me to get where I wanted to be.

I know when I talk to a lot of people, there's, there's, there's always a tipping point. And obviously the major tipping point was breaking you back. But, but when you were kind of recovered from that and you were trying to balance that because, you know, businesses don't just happen. I mean, retail shops don't just happen. You don't just Suddenly buy a $60,000 housing instead of stick it on the shelf and someone hope someone's going to walk in and buy it. What was the tipping point from a business perspective where you went, right, I've now just got to lean completely into this and just, and just really step into that zone of fear or uncertainty. And I remember, I remember listening to a great speaker in the UK some years ago and she said, you know, leap in the net will appear. Did you have any, did you have a moment where you went, right, that's it. I'm just gonna give this my all.

Yeah, I did definitely made that decision, but it wasn't like an epiphany. I just, you know, I guess I just realized at some point that in order for the business to go forward, I needed to give it 100%. That's really what it came down to, you know, just time management, I guess. I was not, I was getting opportunities to do things, but I didn't have the time to do it because I was still working, driving the truck, still making that transition.

And so, yeah, it was like, well, in order for this to really go ahead and be 100% successful, I need to commit to it 100%. Yeah, it was just one of those things that I sat around one day and just having a think about everything. I thought, now the only way to make this really go to that next level is to give it 100% of my time.

I think once you've made that decision, actually implementing that is relatively easy. Making, you know, making the commitment to it, making the decision to say to yourself, okay, I'm going to quit my full time job and I'm going to make this happen no matter what. You know, it's. Once you've made that decision, it's like, okay, the way I sort of figure is once I've made that decision, to me that that is already done. I just need to go through the process to make it happen. So making the decision is the hard thing. Implementing it I think for me was relatively easy because in my mind it's already done. I just need to go through whatever the process is to get there. Yeah, I think that's probably the best way to describe that.

So I mean what, what would, what would you, what would advice would you give to someone listening to this who perhaps is, has got an idea to do a creative business, but it's maybe sitting on a full time job and you know, what, what, what would the piece of advice be to someone or you know, what would your two or three greatest life lessons from this past five years have you consider, you know, give? If someone was coming to you saying, oh look Pete, I'm thinking about doing this business, what do you reckon? What would you say to them?

Believe in yourself. That's probably at the end of the day, that's what it all comes down to. I think if you, you know, to look back at my journey, I started out with.

The niches product in the niches market, you know, Gates housings that are, you know, the most niche product that you could get in this industry. And I started out with them. I had no other brands. I had nothing but gates to represent.

To even think of that is just outright crazy. You know, you would never go to a bank and get a loan to do that. There's no, you know, there's no sort of.

Proper way to do that. You know, but I knew where I wanted to go. I had absolute belief in myself that I could do that because I had the passion to do it, I guess. So I think if you've got the passion and you really believe in yourself, then there's really nothing that you can't achieve no matter what the obstacles are. If you, I guess you've also got to have the right mindset for it as well. So, you know, when an obstacle or an issue comes up in front of me, my first reaction to that is how do I deal with it? Not oh my God, this is a problem. You know, I sort of look and go, okay, well that's a scenario. What am I going to do to fix that? So I think that mindset is Different.

You've always struck me as someone who's, you know, you've been some pretty rough stuff, but you've always come up kind of going, okay, well, we'll just. I mean, is that something that's just intrinsically part of your nature to be optimistic and just push forward, or is that something you've had to work on?

No, I think I've always been relatively upbeat, but I think the older that you get, the more self confidence that you have, more life experiences that you have, the more you realize what you're capable of. So I think, yeah, you know, I mean, if, if I was trying to do this when I was 18, I would have failed miserably. There's no two ways about it. But I think, yeah, it's, you know, it's self confidence, knowing what you can do and pushing the doubt out of your mind and just going, well, you know, this is where I'm going. What's the path that I need to follow to get there? What, you know, what obstacles do I need to overcome? Kind of reverse engineering and knowing where the end line is and going backwards from there.

And you talked there about mindset, and it's something that I am very heavily invested in because, you know, the stuff that happens in your head is the stuff that drives every decision you make. How did you get support for that kind of thing? Did you read a lot of books? I mean, do you listen to seminars? Was there anything you did that helped you kind of get a handle on that mindset that was required to take the risks and push forward with a plan?

I'm not really one to read a lot of books, but I think a lot of life experiences. I guess I'm one of those people that just gets out there and does things. I'm not one to sit in an office all day and let the world pass me by. So I think life experiences are good character building. And a lot of it's just built into people as well. There's some people that are just negative by nature and some people are just very upbeat by nature. I'm lucky enough to be one of those upbeat people. But yeah, as far as, you know, sort of psychology, I've never really done any training in that area. But I, you know, I guess I just know what I want and I won't let anyone stop me from getting that. And I think that's, you know, that's just part of my character.

Yeah. So listen, let's take a bit of time, a moment here to go back in time. Imagine you could go back 10, 10 years and tell your old self one thing, what would that be?

Don't waste time doing something that you don't really want to do. Just focus on, you know, find that passion. Ten years ago, I didn't know that I wanted to film underwater. But once I found that passion, it's changed my whole life. So find who you are. Find that thing that, that drives your passion. Just make that everything that you live and breathe. And that's, you know, for me, that's, you know, that's another thing. I live and breathe my work. It's my lifestyle, it's not a job. You know, I work seven days a week, 24 hours a day, but I love everything I do. It's, you know, I don't see this as a job. So, yeah, find that, find that passion and just get off your ass and go and chase it and don't let anyone say no.

And how important is having the support of Kylie? Like, I mean, you know, she's, she's a pretty unique character. I mean, she, she, she loves this as much as you do.

Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't be anywhere near what I'm doing now without her. And I think, you know, one of the key lessons in life is surrounding yourself with the right people.

Yeah.

If it had been somebody else in my life, I definitely wouldn't be on the same path she's been. I mean, I can't put it into words. Just, you know, the fact that I don't have to explain anything to her. I can just come home and say, hey, Kylie, I'm going to do this. And she'll be just like, okay, no worries and just let me go and do what I need to do, you know. Yeah. Whereas I guess some relationships you've always got to, you know, ask for permission maybe or explain situations, you know, where Kylie's just very open minded like I am and she knows where I'm going and what I need to do to get there. She understands all of that.

And were you guys diving together before you set up this business? Or was that something she got into when she started you getting into it?

Kylie actually dived before I did, so I was a, you know, I'd only been diving for 12 months, maybe 18 months when I first met Kylie. At that time she'd been diving for seven or eight years already. So she's well more experienced than I am.

Yeah. So then we were just, you know, diving together on weekends and, you know, whenever we had spare time. And then, yeah, after the accident, I was Like, I think I'm gonna make a go of this. And we spoke about it and COD was just like, well, if that's what you want to do, go and do it. And yeah, I think that's a really key thing in your life is surrounding yourself with people that have your best interests at heart. If someone's always trying to drag you down.

You'Re never going to achieve your full potential. It's just never going to happen. If there's negativity in your life, you're never going to reach your full potential.

Yeah, yeah. Now we've kind of touched on this, but I want to see if we can dig into it a bit more, you know, because it's different for everyone. But, but how do you balance business and creativity? Because, you know, when you're out shooting, obviously you're being very creative, but you still got to deal with, you know, the tax office and sales and cash flow and, and all the other responsibilities with systems and business and, you know.

How do you balance that?

I like to make little videos that just, you know, honestly you quite often, you know, midnight, 1am, 2am, 3am, I'm just sitting up, you know, doing a nice little two or three minute video that I can put on Facebook. Just lets out the steam, I guess, just, you know, lets me focus. And yeah, I think, you know, that the work that I do is very much, you know, as most other people are doing in this industry. You get a run sheet, you know what shots you're going to do and then you go and do those. Whereas doing stuff for yourself, you have that creativity to look for different angles, think about things just a little bit differently. You're not bound by rules and guidelines and call sheets and stuff. So yeah, you know, my sort of me time is like, you know, from 10 o' clock at night till 2 in the morning and I'm just doing stuff that just makes me happy.

And are you in the retail store like office hours Monday to Friday? I mean, is that where you spend your work time when you're not in the water?

Yeah, it's.

It'S a fine balance because if I'm out doing editing or color grading or shooting, then I can't be in the shop. And if I'm in the shop, I can't be out color grading, editing and shooting. I'm actually very lucky that I've got someone that hopefully will start working for me this Wednesday coming.

Their primary job will be to focus on the retail sales and just keep that pushing on which I still enjoy the Retail sales and I'll still work there on the weekends, but for me it's sort of like I need to be in three different places all at the same time at the moment. So it's at the point now that I need to bring somebody else in to help me manage that. And the retailer really needs someone in there full time to be a face to the shop. And you know, when people walk in they want to see someone there. So that's, that's the next goal that I'm trying to tick off is, is having someone in there to run that retail side of it so I can be.

So you've gone from a, you've gone from being a Truckee to now building a retail empire because you're basically, you're now able to be a full time underwater DP and, and running a retail. I mean, how that must be, that must be an incredible feeling when you stop and consider the, that journey in the space of what, five years?

Yeah, three and a half years it's been. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty. I mean, I'm not one to dwell on the past, but every now and again you just sit down and have a cup of coffee and just sort of think, wow, you know, in three and a half years, four years, whatever, I've. If you had told me four years ago I would be where I am today, I would have laughed and told you that you're a fool and crazy.

But you know, and I guess that's, you know, that's again, those life lessons, more you do, the more you realize you can do. And so as a person, I've grown so much in the last four years confidence in everything that I'm doing. You know, I now know that there's absolutely nothing that I can't do if I set my mind to it. Like I said, if I, you know, even 10 years ago, if you had said that I was going to get into diving and picking up a camera and all this sort of stuff, you know, it wasn't even on the radar. I didn't even know that there was people that filmed underwater. I just watched stuff on TV thinking I didn't even think about how that happened. And now I'm dealing with some of the world's best people out there. I'm lucky enough to call them my friend. It's pretty unrealistic when I look back at the journey that I've been on in such a short time too.

Amazing. What's the best advice you've ever received?

Probably never stop learning. That's Something that's really stuck with me. Yeah, someone, you know, just an off the cuff remark that someone said to me once that, you know, when, when you stop learning, it's time to give it away because you've lost the interest. I think that's, yeah, that's probably the biggest advice.

And do you have any routines or personal habits that you believe have strongly contributed to your success?

Just being myself, really. I think.

Not so much a routine, but I think just being upfront and honest and telling it like it is, I think people respond to that quite well. And, you know, confidence and that upbeat personality is what attracts people. And so, yeah, as I said, I've been really lucky to become very good friends with a lot of key people in this industry and, you know, everything just ties in with that. You, you're in the right group of people. Everyone's bouncing ideas off each other. We're all having, you know, the right conversations. We're all helping each other. Yeah. So I think never stop learning is the key to everything.

And do you think that the creative world is missing anything? Do you think, you know, what is, what does the world need more of? Because I think your story's really inspiring, Pete. You know, you know, truck driver, always loved diving accident, created an opportunity. And I really feel your story is so inspiring. There must be so many people listening or watching this who are perhaps going, oh, I'd love to do X, but I can, you know, what, what, what, what is the world missing? Is, is the world missing something? Is, is there something you could say that might inspire people?

Well, that's, yeah, that's a big question. I guess it depends on what. I mean, there's so many niche markets out there. I suppose that, yeah, there's always going to be something that someone hasn't thought of. You know, to put that into context, I just purchased a rather large dome because there's not many people that are shooting split shots. So where we get both underwater and on the surface all in the same focus, because there's some issues that we have when focusing underwater. So one of the things that I now want to do is be focusing on these split shots. That's something that I never even thought of 12 months ago. So, yeah, I mean, to pick a particular subject would be almost impossible, I think, because everyone's got their own interests and that's the thing. It needs to be whatever your interest is that drives your passion.

It's interesting a lot of times we've worked together for quite some time as well. Is this idea of Being niche can freak a lot of people out. They think they've got to try and be all things to all people. But you've got into a very niche market with a very niche brand. And maybe that's the kind of the thing. It's like, can you share.

Your experience of going niche within a niche market? Because it sounds like it's worked out really well. Tell me about why you think that's worked out for you.

I think because, well, I guess, first of all, there's no competition for what I'm doing. Like being able to do to teach color grading, being able to teach video courses, being able to do the retail sales, being able to do the filming, being able to offer or understand all of those parts of my business. There's nobody else that I know of as in a single person that compromises all of those parts of a single business. There's colorists that are very good at what they do. There's underwater shooters that are very good at what they do. There's retail salespeople that are extremely good at what they do. But to this date, I haven't come across anybody that understands and is very good at all of those together. So I think that's my niche. Being able to talk to customers about color grading, being able to talk to them about what's happening inside a camera, being able to talk to them about experience of shooting on set, and then being able to sell them something based on my understanding of what they need. You know, and quite often I've had people that have come in and said, hey, I want to buy this product. And then you ask those questions, and it turns out that, first of all, they may not actually know why they want that product. They just think someone else has got it, so I need it. And so there's certainly been times where I've, I guess, done myself out of. Out of profit because I've sold them a lesser product than what they thought they needed. But in turn, those people have actually gone on and made me more money because the word of mouth, they've gone and told their friend, hey, you know, I came in expecting to spend X amount of dollars, and I walked out of there just as happy with half of that money. But, yeah, so I think. I think the niche within a niche is just that. I guess, because I understand so many different parts of this business. You know, most underwater shooters are just shooting underwater. They're not doing color grading because that's someone else's job. So they have, you know, a very limited understanding of what's happening inside the camera and how to get the best color out of it. Whereas I can pull all of my different talents together and have conversations. I can be on set and explain to the, you know, to the DP or whatever, the top side guy, why we need to do certain things because that's going to make the colorist job better. And so on set, a lot of people don't really understand what other roles or how what I do is going to affect somebody else's work. So I can have that conversation and say, maybe we should do it this way. Because if we do it this way, the footage is going to look much better because now the colorist is going to have an easier job. Yeah. So I can sort of build all of that.

And I've got to ask you about the bull sharks. You know, Fiji, you showed some footage a while ago on Facebook which looked pretty hairy. I mean there's. You've put yourself in some pretty interesting situations. Talk to me about some of the more challenging diving topics.

Sharks would be the number one thing. As soon as someone finds out that you dive, first thing they ask is, have you seen sharks? To be honest, I'm probably more afraid of blurring octopus than I am of sharks. Yeah, I have a love and respect for sharks. They're certainly not what the media portray them to be. Yeah, I, yeah, people just have this sort of horror mentality that a shark is going to see them and come to bite them and chew their leg off or something. It just doesn't happen. And yeah, I was fortunate enough a few months ago to run a week long training sort of class in Fiji where we had someone from red digital cinema come out and a couple of us that sell and use the gates housings and we just taught a whole bunch of people how to shoot red cameras underwater. We were lucky to do it in Fiji. We were surrounded by, you know, 30 to 50 bull sharks and they're literally within touching arm's reach. And then over nighttime we were doing a lot of DaVinci resolve color grading stuff. Yeah. So the shark stories are always fun and they do get up nice and close. But you know, I've had more incidents not dealing with sharks. You know, where you've been in ripping current and being lost from the boat, being in really bad visibility where you, you know, your dive computer is touching your screen and you can't even read it, you know. Yeah, there's been a few hairy situations. Solo night diving. Not really any with sharks, but I think solo night diving, you know, as a Videographer, you. You really want to just be away from everybody else because, you know, other divers will be stirring up sand or they'll be taking photos and the strobes are flashing in all of your footage. So I tend to do a lot of diving by myself or if I'm with a group, when we drop down, I'll, you know, I'll move off to the side away from them. So, yeah, you know, solo night diving just gets all of your senses, like, you know, you're so in tune with every little thing. And I've, you know, the crap out of myself many a time bumping into a dead bit of coral or a bit of sand or something when you're not looking. And, yeah, the heart rate goes through the roof and just that mental preparedness, keep trying to keep your. Keep the blood flow down a bit, keep the heart from jumping out of your skin. Yeah, that can happen a few times. But, yeah, I've been lost away from a boat in really bad currents and had to surface in blue water. But that's all part of what we do, I suppose.

So, listen, if you had one piece of advice.

That you could share with the viewers and the listeners about your experience, about your journey, what would it be?

Follow your dreams. Don't let anyone say no. Don't. Don't let you say no to yourself. That's probably the number one thing. Yeah. The only person stopping you from doing something is you, not anybody else at all. You know, if you have negativity in your life, you need to have a good look at that and work out whether it's there for a good reason or not. But ultimately, you're the only one stopping your journey. So change what you need to change. Make those decisions and don't take anything less than what you really, really want. It's as simple as that.

That's awesome, Pete. If people are interested in finding out more about you and what you do, how can you be reached?

Probably best to go through the website. So duai.

You land on that and then there's emails and Facebook pages and everything that are. That are linked to that. Yeah, that's probably the best thing. I really focus on returning people's messages and phone calls and all of that. So I'm quite open to, you know, if you get in contact with me, I will respond. I'm not one of those people that turns their back and snobs people. So, yeah, send an email or Facebook message or something and I'll definitely respond.

Well, mate, it's fascinating to hear you put this story together for the podcast. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing it. I have watched your journey. You know, when I landed in Australia three years ago, it was you and Kylie within a week of me saying, hey, come on, have dinner. And so we're so grateful for that. Sam and I were so grateful to meet you guys properly. And look, I just, I look forward to watching your journey further because if you can do this and three and a half, four years, goodness knows where you'll be in five to 10.

So, yeah, that's a scary thought.

Well, mate, listen, thanks so much indeed. And guys, that's it for this episode. So thanks so much, Pete and we'll see you guys soon. You've been listening to the Business for Creatives podcast with your host, me Dan Lenny. If you're a creative business owner who is struggling to get your business performing at the level you you want, then head on over to businessforcreatorspodcast.com to take a free business evaluation survey and discover where you can plug the holes in your business. You can also access a range of free training to help you build your business faster. Also, don't forget to rate the show over on itunes so we can get the message out there to more creatives who need to hear it. Thanks for listening.