Ever wonder if you're cut out to be an entrepreneur? EP #099 with Danny Lacey

Hey guys, Den here with another episode of the how to Scale a video business podcast this week. I'm really excited that we've got Danny Lacy from Stardom Media in the uk. Now, Danny is someone I became aware of back in 2009. He was one of the very first filmmakers to start documenting his journey and he picked up a camera for the first time in 2009 after a 25 year career as a radio broadcaster and started learning how to be a filmmaker. But what was interesting is what happened next. He got this incredible opportunity to set up a TV station for Sky TV in the uk for a company. And that was his baptism of fire, where he went, right, I've got to now stop being a cameraman shooter in my bedroom, doing everything myself and start a business. And this is an incredible story of entrepreneurship and how he grew that company from one person to 39 its peak and now it's sitting at about nine. But what's more interesting is that he does that in a place called Wakefield, which is provincial town in England, is not one of the major metropolis. So I think you're going to get a huge amount of value from this episode. Danny really bears all about how hard it's been to build the business, some of the mistakes they've made, the many mistakes they've made, and the things he's learned along the way, but the kind of core focus that's kept him going. So I think you're going to really enjoy this, this episode. And before we get into the show, I want to make sure you understand that we've got some incredible free resources available over at the website@danlaney.com you CL on the resources tab, we've got a sales script and a marketing video that helps you understand how you can reconnect with former clients. And sometimes people struggle to know what to say when getting on the phone to clients. So I've created a script for you to help you do that. And interestingly, we're going to talk about sales in this episode and the importance of it. So, guys, I hope you really enjoy this episode. It was a fantastic conversation with Danny. So please enjoy this.

Danny. It's really good to finally actually talk face to face. We were just talking there offline that we've known about each other for about 11 years. So thank you for finally agreeing to come on the show.

Thank you for inviting me.

And I want to just caveat that, folks, it wasn't like he was avoiding me for the last 11 years. It's just that we managed to Get a tie. In fact, the true story is Danny had agreed to come on the show about four months ago and I was like, oh, he hasn't booked a slot. And it was only yesterday when I realized that all the time slots were like 3am for you in the UK. And I was like, oh, maybe that's the reason why he hasn't booked.

So it wasn't actually, but I, it wasn't actually, but I appreciate the, the, the slightly more convenient time slot. I was looking at it, but I've got a young 1 year old boy so the problem is if, and I talk quite loud sometimes and he's in the next room and when he's sleeping, could wake him up and I'd get into a whole trouble with his mum. So this is perfect. So I appreciate, I appreciate you.

Well, look, you now run Stardust Media, which is a production company in Wakefield in the UK with nine employees. But first tell us a bit about what Starda does and then maybe then we'll go back to the backstory of how you got there.

Sure. So Starda Media is a video content producer and we create all types of video for brands of all sizes across mainly the uk and that's anything from TV commercials, your standard corporate videos for website, social media. We also do 2D 3D animation. So that's character motion graphics, that kind of thing right through to the high end 3D visualization realization type videos where we can just take products and bring them to life in the 3D world. So yeah, and we're kind of moving into live streaming, which is becoming a really big thing at the minute. And we're also adding audio productions to our arm of services as well. So yeah, anything to do with moving images, we can offer that as a service in house.

Now you said you picked up a camera for the first time in 2009, which was around about the time we set up F Stop Academy, actually around the 5D mark II. What had you been doing previous to that and what, what made you kind of pick up a camera?

So long story short, because I can talk for hours about this. So I, when I was younger, I was right into storytelling, I wanted to be a director, wanted to be a film director. That was the goal. And I don't know why, but for some reason I ended up in DJing when I was younger and then getting into radio and then I became a radio broadcaster for 20 years of my life working on, you know, old times of day, breakfast shows, mid morning shows, drive time, you name it, I was, I was on it, working as a freelancer and doing quite well for myself. It was, you know, wasn't working all the hours in the day and. But I always had that kind of burning desire to be a filmmaker. So I'm a filmmaker at heart, even with what I'm doing right now. And then I decided when I got into my 30s, it was that whole, you know, what do I want to do with my life? I don't really want to talk between records, talking nonsense for hours and getting paid for it. Although it was, you know, like I said, was doing quite well at the time. So I decided that I was, you know what? I'm going to learn how to be a filmmaker and as an entrepreneur. I've always been an entrepreneur ever since I left school. I wanted to learn all aspects of the filmmaking process. So writing a script, editing filmmaking. So I started gathering the tools that I was going to need to be able to do that. So I started by. I knew nothing about cameras and I probably wasted £1,200 in fact on my first camera, which was the banana canon x1. I think it was the banana shaped canon which they.

Yeah, with the interchangeable lenses and stuff on it. And I had no idea how to use it and I bought it off of a friend and. But anyway, I got stuck in and I just started experimenting and there wasn't much in the way of online tutorials back then. It was very sparse as far as YouTube videos go. They were there, but it wasn't as busy as it is now. And as you mentioned, DSLRs started to, you know, take shape back then with. With some high profile individuals, you know, creating some pretty cool content. So. So anyway, yeah, I just, I just learned all aspects. I got sor really cheap video editing software. I think it was Final Cut Pro, the basic version at that stage. And then I went, I kind of upgraded from there and started creating short films. And it all kind of escalated from there really. But short films, I mean, I've shot five short films today. My first one was shot for like 80 pounds on that very camera that I bought with the crew working for next to nothing. And that was a whole, a really exciting period in my life actually the whole filmmaking thing because, you know, I was building a bit of a following online and I like to think I was one of the early filmmakers to share the whole thing online. We did a weekly livestream on Livestream.com I believe, which I think doesn't exist anymore. But. So it was a Tuesday night show and we built up a Bit of an audience. And then we got involved with crowdfunding. And back then, crowdfunding was relatively fresh, relatively new for a lot of people. But we managed to raise £11,000 for my second short film, love like hers.

While I'm doing all this, I'm still doing the radio, but at the same time, I'm thinking and real and soon realizing that there's absolutely zero chance of me making any money or salary out of being a filmmaker. And so I decided to look at my options. You know, how can I make a living out of doing what I enjoy doing? And that's when I started to think about corporate video production.

It's interesting that, you know, corporate video can often have this sort of the poor brother to filmmaking. And I speak to a lot of filmmakers and when they talk about making corporate films, they're like, oh, yeah, but it's just not very stimulating and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the smart money is on actually making corporate films. And actually, you can make corporate films really interesting. But then, I mean, I've always been a believer that you should just make great films no matter what you're making. And if you're making a corporate, there's no reason why you can't make that epic. But. But let's see, corporate is a little bit on the kind of mundane side sometimes. It's the fact that you can take that money and do lots of cool things with it. So what is your stance on corporate filmmaking and how did that sort of stem your creative desires?

I wasn't snobbish when it came to film versus TV versus corporate versus wedding videos versus music videos. I just saw advantages in knowing everything. But also the challenges of, like you just said, how do you make that interesting? How do you make it creative? Because there was a stigma and probably still is attached to corporate videos. You think, you know, boring talking heads against the magnolia back wall. And so, yeah, the challenge was always, how can. How can I make this video more interesting for this client? And I guess there's. You're looking at it on a technical aspect. Is there some new technology that we could be using to make it visually more interesting and give it that hook? Because for me, it's all about the hook in a video. There's got to be a theme, a hook, something that grabs people's attention. And if it's lacking story, if it's lacking something really interesting as far as a narrative goes, then how can we add something visually to drag the audience in and captivate them and get them to engage so yeah, as a company as we are now, we're constantly looking at ways and how we can push back with clients who just want a typical corporate video because they feel like that's the right thing to do because everybody else is doing it, when in actual fact that's the reason not to do that because everybody else is doing it. And to look for that, you know, piece of creative, piece of content that is actually going to jump out and stand out in a crowd in a very crowded place at the minute. And so it's just having, it's educating the clients, it's also educating ourselves and as a team trying to look at how we can expand on what we're currently doing in a more creative, more engaging, more modern way. And again, it comes down to the technical side of it and then obviously the visual storytelling side of things.

So I mean we won't go too deep into starter just at the moment. But obviously you've got a team of nine now and they're full time, you know, that's a sizable company. How do you go from being a guy who's buying a camera and trying to figure out how to make films to, to kind of getting that first client and then getting that second client and starting to grow the business?

I think you have, you have to have an entrepreneurial spirit. I think one of the things I like to talk about when, when I'm talking to other individuals, people that are in a similar position to I was back in the early, when I was working from my spare room on my own is knowing what I know now specifically is you need to figure out what kind of business person you are. Are you an entrepreneur? Do you really know what that entrepreneurial means? Are you a self employed freelancer who you know, would happily just take the work and look after themselves basically in their family? Are you a business owner where you kind of grow to business to a certain size and then and that's about it. Or do you want to work for somebody and not have the stress and worries of being an entrepreneur? And I was the entrepreneurial side of that. I was excited at the prospect of building.

Something with some, with legacy, something with heritage. And so that was my kind of key focus.

And so for me it was a no brainer and it was already written what I was going to do with the business. I mean in the early days I wanted a hundred, two hundred staff and I wanted to be the biggest company on the planet and blah, blah, blah. That's all changed since by the way. But I think circumstances first the circumstances led to the company growing suddenly. So I was quite happy at one stage of it be just me on my own working and then just hiring freelancers when I as and when I needed them. But then a situation came up and this is all about why, you know, maybe we'll touch on this at some point. But this is why relationships are really important and not to be desperate when it comes to relationships. So it's not about, you know, meeting a business somebody who might be a client and then pushing them through and trying to get them over the line within four minutes of talking to them. But I had a client who had known me for a couple of years and a one. So this I'm going to tell you the story of what changed Starda to where it is at the minute. From me working my bedroom to then suddenly growing. So a client of mine was, there were design clients. We were designing some stuff for them previously some graphic design. And then two years passed without me hearing from them. And then on Christmas Eve I got a phone call from said client and they asked me if I'd be interested in helping them set up a TV channel on sky, on sky tv.

And they wanted it done within six months. So me being the entrepreneurial and I don't like turning work down, I decided that yes, that's doable, not having a clue how to set up a TV channel and everything that goes into it. So they wanted a TV studio based in Wakefield, where we're based. And then we needed to go through the whole licenses and Ofcom and so many other disputes and actually create the content for a 24,7 TV channel. So away we went and it was a big, it was a six figure contract and it changed, it changed everything. And so I had to start hiring from that moment because it was physically I couldn't be in 10,000 places at once. So I was at a point there where I had to decide, right, do I want to continue the way I am at the minute, just working on my own, comfortably, without the stresses of hiring staff or do I want to, with this money that's about to land in the company within the business, do I now want to expand and go all in with staff? And it was a two minute conversation with myself and then I was all in. And then we were moving into a new office and then it was, I was looking for, you know, how do, who do I recruit as my first member of staff. And it was all those decisions that suddenly became what my running a business became as opposed to editing and filming, which it was before. Now it was more managing and growing a business and looking after clients in a completely different landscape.

And that, that, that freaks a lot of filmmakers out. And I say filmmakers is a broad term for video production. You know, professional. A lot of, there's a there high degree of the one man band freelancer who suddenly got a few more contracts and is hiring some subcontractors. But it is literally, you know, one, one person in their bedroom or perhaps an office.

And I think there's a, there's a big fear of that leap to a business owner where you're actually employing people. What, what were some of the, what were some of the processes you went through? I mean, I know it's a very quick decision, but what are some of the practical aspects of making that transition? Because I think for a lot of people they're like, right, I'm going to pay this person a salary. That's a big commitment. And I think there's a fear perhaps that, you know, they won't have the work to support it. But I think something different happens when you employ people. You actually expand your reach and actually more, more able to do a lot more. Terrible English. Sorry, but, but what were some of the practical steps you had to go through sort of psychologically in terms of moving from that one man band filmmaker to now I've got an office and a team.

Yeah, I think it's a, I don't know, it's a mindset thing. It goes back to what I was saying a minute ago about what kind of business person are you? And, and I think naturally, by design, if you're an entrepreneur.

Your brain tends to not really get too pessimistic with things. You know, you don't sit there and analyze it for a week beforehand before making a decision. You generally have a gut instinct, I believe, and you don't always get it right. And this is the other thing. You need to be in the right headspace to be able to make mistakes and accept that you're going to make mistakes. And to accept that actually that's your job as the entrepreneur, the head of the company, is to figure stuff out. And the only way to do that is to just do it. And this is my, my philosophy throughout life generally. I didn't go to college or university to study film, to study business or any of that. My mindset is, you know what, I'm just going to have a go and I'll figure it out and if I'm good in one particular area, we'll go all in There. So it was the same here. I felt comfortable, I felt confident. I think because I was in my 30s as well, I had life experience and I knew a little bit around business. I've been freelance since I left school. You know, I've never worked for anybody. I think I did actually work for somebody for a year and that was it. So I had that survival mentality already. You know, I knew what it was like to have to go out and earn money to survive month on month. And I think that's what differentiates between entrepreneurs, business owners, freelancers, self employed, is that, is that mindset. So I don't think it goes anywhere beyond the right kind of mindset. The fact that I had that confidence to just do it and not worry about where that next pound was coming. That said.

Now I had to take that selfish me working from on my own way of doing things to suddenly, yes, now I had a mouth because I hired one person to start with for a few months and then we went from two to three and so on. But then I had to now think, right, I'm going to minute. And it didn't hit me until I'd hired this person. By the way, this came after I'd hired somebody and it came to payroll time so I had to sign the check or do the backs transfer at the time. And it was then that the realization of. Because before that is the romance, it's that whole, wow, I have an office, I'm hiring somebody, this is all fantastic. And I think again that's definitely a giddy entrepreneurial thing. However, when it came to paying the first wage at the end of the month, it was then that it hit home that actually do you know what, I've got a responsibility now to look after the business so I can feed this person. And then when that person starts talking about oh, I'm going to go and look at getting a mortgage and then I'm looking at going to get this loan and that loan and car and this, that and the other. Suddenly the pressures, and this is just one member of staff. Suddenly the pressures start to mount up a little bit. And that I think is when you start to change on a managerial level, not necessarily on an entrepreneurial, but certainly on a management level, I have to look after and feed these people. So I've. So now I'm looking at the future of the business. I'm looking at three months ahead, six months ahead, 12 months ahead, and what we need to be ear to survive. And then suddenly your eyes are open to how important that relationship is with the client more than ever. So at that time we had a couple of clients because we were still relatively small. And then the Sky TV client was our biggest client, like by a long, long stretch, which is dangerous for a business. But back then I didn't care.

Right.

It was an opportunity for us to grow. So I don't know if that answered your question.

Yeah, no, it's fantastic. I'd love to just dial back bit to who was that first person you had, what role were you hiring for and how did that, what did that allow you to leverage in terms of time? Because when, when, when we're in that stage of just being a one man band or a one woman band, it's like you have so little time because you're liaising with the client and then you're organizing the shoot and then you're doing the shoot and then you're doing the edit and then it's like you have no time to do any marketing and you're just relying on word of mouth and it's like this kind of feast and famine cycle. So I don't want to assume that's what you were doing, but what was life like before you got this contract and who was the first hire and what did you look for?

Well, before that contract we didn't have any staff. We literally hired as a result of that client. But before it was just literally me working on doing everything. So I was account manager, project manager. I was filming most of the videos, I was editing most of the videos and coping all right, working, you know, 18, 15 to 18 hours a day, every day, maybe having Sunday off, but generally I was working a lot of hours. So just not, and not really having time to work on the business I was literally working in. I was a worker, I was hr, I was marketing, I was sales, and then I was the actual, you know, production team. And then when this project came along, it was evident from the get go that we were going to need to hire somebody because I'm already working 18 hours a day looking after three or four clients and here we are with a six figure contract and so many different element moving parts for this contract that I, it was just, there was no chance I was ever gonna be able to do this on my own. So as far as who to recruit, this is, I, I had this little thing in place, this little task I set myself, which I've been using ever since and I use it to this day and that's my to do list. So I believe that your to do list is your biggest recruitment tool. And so what. Luckily what I do or what I did at the time, what I continue to do is I have a notebook and let me just quickly show you. This is my. If you're listening on the podcast, you won't be able to see that obviously, but It's a, it's a 5 notepad. Yeah. And every real pen and paper. Real pen and paper. And then every two pages is a day. Whereas I've changed that recently. It's now a week. But back then it was a day per two pages. And I just literally write in all the tasks that I need to achieve that day and then, then on the second page it would be what I need to achieve within the week. And I couldn't, looking back at all that I could clearly see the jobs, those little non important jobs that you know, I shouldn't be doing because you know, I should be concentrating on growing the business. So I'd look at all those jobs and then I'd put them into little categories and eventually I was building up this picture of where most of my time was spent, what was the most time laborious thing. And it was there that I realized that right. Okay. I realized that I need a production assistant right now. Somebody who can come in and take up the slack on 50% of this particular category of work that I'm doing at the minute. So I hired, so I hired a production assistant. Didn't. Now back then it was like I just needed to keep costs low because it's nerve wracking obviously hiring. So I went for literally minimum wage as low as I could go. And it was a post grad which was great for us and great for them because they were, you know, to have help him build a TV channel on your CV fresh out of uni is, you know, it's pretty amazing. So we, we hired that person, stayed with me for five years. So I think that was testament to, you know, what we're achieving as a business. And she's gone on to great things now. She's working at some pretty big agencies and doing really well for herself, which is great. So, so yeah, so that, that's how I would basically took on my first member of staff and I recruited the second, third right up until where we are today on the same kind of format. What do we, what's that to do list look like? And, and that would then help me recruit.

I, I absolutely love that. I want to stop there for a minute because.

I love the fact you've got this, this physical. I'M the same. I've actually got about three and I'm holding up an A4 notebook that is just full of scribbles and I've got my highlighter pen which sits on my desk at all times for practically the same reason. It's because I think and particularly as creative business owners and entrepreneurs, you have so many ideas that, and I'd love to get your perspective on this. When I have so many ideas, if I don't write them down and do something with them, I think my brain's going to explode. Tell to me about why it's so important to kind of, I guess journal these thoughts when growing a business.

Because when you physically write something down and force yourself to do that, I think.

There'S several reasons for doing that. One, you're seeing it physically in front of you. The actual act of writing it down is, is giving your brain chance to register what it is that you are saying to remind. So it kind of sits in and goes in. I think you can write quicker than you can type. And also with so with Word documents and what you've got to follow a line, it's all linear. Whereas on a notepad you can just literally be sick on the page, you can literally scribble things around really quick. And you, you're not limited to the speed that you can type or the functionality of the software that you're using. So I just like the freedom of being able to route the page. So there's that. Also, a notebook isn't going to run out of date, it's not going to need regular updates, it's not attached to the Internet and many other distractions. So when I'm making notes and I'm working in my notebook, I tend to switch everything else off. So my phone goes on to silent, I switch my computer off altogether, move my keyboard out of the way and I set myself. I mean I've got a really tight schedule now in my week so that I'm more productive than I used to be. And it's taken me years to develop this, but it works a treat. And one of those moments is, you know, like for example, between 8 and 9 in the morning I'm just working from my notebook and I'm just thinking of ideas, working on the business. So whenever I'm working on the business, 90% of that time is spent in my notebook, which some people might find a bit crazy, but it works. And it's just a more free flowing process for my brain to be able to work because I want to be able to write as quick as my brain can think. Because there's been times when I have an idea and I'm not writing quick enough and the idea is gone and I'm sat for 10 minutes when I think, oh, what was the idea again? If I was typing all that, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't be able to get as much of information out of my head as quickly as I can on and as freely in a free form where, like I said, I don't have to follow straight lines. I can write something and then highlight it and put a little note next to it, you know, above in the top corner somewhere. It's just, it's how I work. It's how I've always worked. And I just, you know, I don't even class it. I don't see it as an old school format whatsoever. I think it's, it, you know, it's still relevant today. I just think it's an easier way to organize yourself and to see things.

I agree. And you know that there's. One of my kind of entrepreneurial idols is a guy called Keith J. Cunningham, and he has a book called the Road Less Stupid. And Keith J. Cunningham is the rich dad who Robert Kiyosaki based his rich dad poor dad off. And he has a couple of books, but one of them is called the Road Less Stupid. And he talks about having a thinking chair and that for an hour every day you should sit in that thinking chair with a notebook and just write a word and spend an hour thinking about it. And one of the great themes in that book is he says, if you could reverse three financial decisions in your life, what would they be and how would your life look now? And I was like, oh, that's powerful. And I've started not as diligently as every day, but I'm doing a lot of meditating just now. So I meditate first thing in the morning and I'll occasionally take my book and just go and sit. But I love that because I agree it's about getting clear on your intentions before you then commit that to digital means. And I'm guessing that most of your big decisions are made in that thinking time.

100%. Yeah. And so I've got a second notebook that I call my business book. And literally it's one thought per page type of scenario. And if I've reached a milestone in the business where decisions have to be made and I've had to make some tough decisions in the past, I literally sketch out on the page and I'll look at the various scenarios that will result in the decisions I'm about to make and play out on the page. And doing that has enabled me to kind of, again, just let my brain. I'm a big advocate of the no idea is a bad idea. And on the page I feel like I can jot things down that, you know, it might not make sense, but I'm just going to jot this down and maybe it'll make sense as we, as I progress with these sketches. So, yeah, most of my decisions within the business have been made on the page, without a doubt.

I love it, mate. We're sort of running out of time for this episode, but I'd love to get you back because I feel we haven't even talked about Starda Media. So maybe we'll wrap things up here and bring you back next week to delve into Starda and the background there. Hey guys, thanks for watching. I hope you got a huge amount of value from that episode. If you're looking for additional support or resources to support your business journey, then head over to Denlenney.com where you can get a whole heap of other resources, free downloads, and access all the other episodes in the series. Be sure to subscribe and I'll see you next time.