Golden advice for winning in business and in life. EP #118 - JM Schoeny

Hey, guys, it's Dan, here with an episode of the how to Scale a Video Business podcast. Today I have a guest, JM Shoney. Now, JM Is someone that I met when I was prospecting on LinkedIn, and when I came across JM and I asked the question, how are things since the beginning of the year, he said he's never been busier. And that was such an unusual response. Outside of my video business accelerator, I'm hearing a lot of stories about people who are suffering because of the whole change that's happened in our society in the last six months. But Jim has actually got busier, so I was intrigued and I wanted to get him on the show, and I'm so glad I did because he's a fascinating guy. Lives in Nashville, Tennessee, but started life making feature films in Hawaii. And there's an incredible story there how he ended up kind of, you know, getting married and he got a proper job as a TSA officer, but something was burning away at him and he got back into video production. Now works exclusively with corporates in the finance world, helping companies who are investors raise money with compelling video stories. So I think you're going to really enjoy this episode. I wanted to share his story with you because it's so interesting. And just before we get started, please do love this podcast on itunes or any of the other platforms you're on, or share it with your friends. And if you can, leave us a review, that really helps us as well. So I appreciate you being here and enjoy the episode.

So, Jim, I want to just preface our chat here with the fact that I was reaching out to connections on LinkedIn, and during that process, a lot of people were telling me about how tough things were, how bad things were, and you came on and said, never been busier. And I was like, immediately my ears were pricked up because that is what my clients are experiencing. And so I wanted to get you on to share your story with. Like, why have you never been busier? So perhaps, first of all, John Michael, you can. You can tell us a bit about what's going on for you right now and why you think you've never been busier when many people in the video space are stressing and complaining there's no work.

Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me on. I'm super stoked to connect with you. And everything that you and I have Talked about from LinkedIn to even right now is like, I think you and I think the same with a lot of areas and seeing opportunities whenever there's flexes and changes in markets. That means just because there's a downturn for some people, there's plenty of opportunity for other things. So to answer your question for me, like you said, I this is the busiest I've ever been. I've had my company, Eternal Perspective Productions for the past six and a half years, did feature films and TV show before that, so got to see how it was done on a big scale, Started my own company and just kind of started out like everybody else, but figuring out whatever jobs kind of came around. Small budget, low budget, no budget, all that kind of stuff that came my way. But I had my aha moment a couple years ago where I just really focused on a certain niche and a certain type of client. And that's a lot of people that are corporate and investing world and angel investors and investment banks. I've just learned. I was like, well, if they have bigger budgets and have bigger clients and I could do bigger jobs. So I've had that the past couple years. But with COVID I also started. I saw an opening in 2017 and I started. I was in San Diego, so I bought San Diego livestream.com before that was on kawaii. So I got kawaii livestream.com and they were wide open for $20 for the domain name. And in 2017, streaming wasn't a necessity, but I just saw, I was like, well, 20 bucks and I could see the potential of doing this. So I've been sitting on those the past three years and when Covid came around, everybody needed Livestream and I just happened to have all the craziest tech for live streaming. I had the great URLs, the yelps, the all the stuff already in place. So that's been a huge uplift. In addition to regular video production and promos and campaigns, Livestream is like the crazy wild west open market right now for a lot of videographers that I know are still trying to figure it out and they're a little bit scared of it. But I feel like, oh, I've been doing this the past few years on a professional scale already. Multicam and redundant Internet and all this kind of stuff. So it's just kind of like I was right place, right time and I feel really blessed to be in this spot right now.

I love that. You know, one of our clients, Tony Ianuzi from AGI Media, was on the podcast a few months back talking about this very thing, and I was on a call with him this morning just before I jumped on with you and. And he's like, man, we're slammed. We have so much work. He said, we are now doing big scale, huge scale zooms for major, major clients. Like the president's right hand man is speaking at their events. And it's incredible. So I love that you've jumped on that opportunity.

Tell me about your background. So you said you worked on feature films. How did that evolve from films and into corporate? Because for a lot of people the idea of corporate is one of, look, there's a snobbery, right? People think that corporate somehow dumbing down what you're doing. That's not what I believe. But tell me about your journey.

Yeah, so the first start was from when I was little. I had like my Sony Handycam Hi8 recording on there, shooting home videos. And we had the night vision on there. Then when it went to digital 8 then we're like, oh, we're still recording on tape what we can put on the computer. Had the canon ZR65 with mini DV and all that kind of stuff and filming, skateboarding and editing our skate videos and Bales videos and all that. So video has been there my whole life. And when we lived in California, I'm from Southern California, born and raised. And when we were there, we lived up in Lake Arrowhead, which is right there by Big Bear, cool snowboarding kind of area in Southern California. And there was a movie set and I was 15 and my mom was driving me and I was like, mom, pull over. There's a movie right there. I want to see if I can help. And I just went up to the set and I was like, hey, can I help you guys? And like, well, you're a minor, you can do it four hours. You can't work a full eight. And it was some horror movie. It was like a B kind of horror movie. But I worked on that and I learned a lot. And I got to work as an art department PA and I got IMDb credit when I was 15 and I was like, whoa, I could actually maybe do this. Then I found like local kind of production companies to volunteer at. And then we moved to Kauai actually in 2006, got a job at the local public access TV station. And my role was technical director, but it was still like a VHS switcher type of station. And I faded in and faded out the public access 5 minute window where people could just talk about whatever they wanted. But that year, the next year, 2007, everybody's saying DreamWorks is coming and there's going to be A big movie. And that was actually Tropic Thunder. And So I was 17, went knocked on the production door and said, hey, here's my little resume, can I help? And they're like, you can copy papers and scripts for two days. And that turned into two weeks. Then one day there was a call that they needed on set, pa so next thing I know, I'm working in the jungle with Jack Black and Ben Stiller and Robert Downey Jr. When I was 17, actually had my 18th birthday on the set one day. So I that just kind of lit the fire more. And in Kauai there's a lot of production, so I got to work on the fourth Pirates of the Caribbean. I did some reality TV shows, I did a George Clooney movie, I did Soul Surfer. I did a season of the Bachelor in Hollywood after that. So it just kind of lit my fire and I was like, well, I wanted to go to film school since I was younger, but then I just learned on these sets and got paid to do it and asked all the industry vets. So I went from that and did that. So by the time I was 22, I had this crazy DreamWorks Disney Bachelor, all this stuff on my resume and I learned all that. But then 22, I got married. So my wife and I, in the next two weeks, it's our nine year anniversary. So it's been nine years of being married. We have two kids now. But her parents, since we were 22, wanted me to have the steady job. So I ended up pivoting and actually got a job at TSA doing airport security. So I had a the super steady federal job for Department of Homeland Security. But after doing that a couple years, it was just like eating my soul, like to take people's waters and pat them down and be yelled at every day in multiple languages by multiple people. It's like, yeah. So I knew it was always a stepping stone and just to kind of, I wanted to show my, my future in laws that I wanted to honor them and just do the right thing. And so. But I started my company in 2014 with Eternal Perspective Productions, just as a twofold reason. It was I needed that creative outlet again and we needed some extra income because we had one son at the time. So just the TSA income we were scraping by. So I'm like, man, I could make money and be creative. So that was already six plus years ago, six and a half years ago. So it was just out of that. And I started with doing videos for our church and videos for different People and they went to small businesses. And I never focused on weddings because I've always seen that was like a race to the bottom for budgets with a lot of people. Obviously there are a lot of, or a good few select big budget, kind of really established wedding videographers and photographers and all that. But that was never my focus. So I've probably done five weddings maybe total, but they've all been friends or family and the rest. Over the past six and a half years, I've done over 600 videos with my company. But they've both mostly been corporate brand campaigns. Short form, some 22 minute pilot episodes for like pure flicks and these online platforms, but mostly short form, like a lot of storytelling. But.

One last little thing before we go to your next part is what I've seen in corporate is that there's a huge need for storytelling and epic visuals and doing amazing stuff while helping companies raise capital or do X amount in sales or get this many eyes on their awareness campaign. And to do that with amazing crazy visuals is really where I thrive. So whenever I meet with clients I say like my whole goal is to make epic content with whatever I do. And if we know where we're going and we have like our plan, what you, what you want the video and campaign to do, then I can do. What I'm good at is telling stories, doing crazy awesome visuals and then getting you results.

I love that story so much. There's so many incredible moments in there. The one I want to pick up on, Jim, is, you know, the storytelling part. Because human beings are predisposed to make decisions based on emotional reactions and emotional responses. Anything we buy on any level is first of all an emotional decision which is then backed up with logic.

One of the things that I think is so fascinating about the corporate world is that the corporate world is no longer this dry 3ccd camcorder where a videographer shows up and just records corporates and startups and people are looking for funding, they want to excite their audience. And don't you think since the world has changed, people are spending more time consuming content? So great looking content actually matters more. How did you, how did you go from like, you know, leaving the TSA and starting a video production business to being in 2020 working for finance companies and companies that raise capital. How did you, how did you get that break? How did you get in, in front of those people?

Yeah, I mean a big thing is kind of putting yourself in the right spot in the right rooms. And I had a lot of awesome. Good business. Mentors of people that were either at our church or people that we knew in the community. I put myself in a lot of creative circles with a lot of agencies there in San Diego because we were, we had moved from Kauai to San Diego in 2012, so I was there the past seven years. So there's a, a bunch of awesome creative people in San Diego doing amazing agency stuff, design stuff, photography, video, all that. So and the whole community there is basically community over competition. So it's opposite of the LA kind of Hollywood where people are dog eat dog. San Diego's just like, hey, let's all help each other out. I'll sub you out for this job, you sub me out for this one. So that really helped with learning the craft. But then also in San Diego, it's a really heavy startup ecosystem of a lot of awesome fintech, biotech, med tech, all that kind of stuff coming out of these universities. A lot of there's a huge investment community now. It kind of went from Silicon Valley, then it went to like Silicon beach in Santa Monica and then now in San Diego. It's a huge startup ecosystem. And so the people I knew were also business owners that I was doing cool content for and training series that were in these circles. So then they started me bringing me kind of in the room of these people and I just saw the need, like you said, of we're all humans, we all want to feel something, we all want to be entertained and hear stories. But for these fundraising campaigns and other things, they also need the facts and figures to make a decision, to write a check. But so I just learned that. I'm always trying to learn, I'm always being like a sponge. I've taken courses on the science of storytelling and the story arcs and the conflict and all that kind of stuff that goes with it. So I'm always trying to be a student of doing stuff better. But just seeing that, how you can pair business results with storytelling, awesome visuals and then getting results like you can't. It's like a perfect combination of all these things that come together. And most people, when you explain it, they get it, but they don't get it till you like lay it out for em. So it seems like it's so easy, but until you get that aha moment of that light bulb turning on, it's not, not everybody's like on that same wavelength.

Amazing, amazing. And, and how about from trans, how do you translate that into business? I mean, how. Because you know, oftentimes people who are in the finance space, they're very cost conscious. A lot of startups don't have a lot of money, even though they. They kind of. They want to, you know, get their message out there. There's a kind of a. A disconnect between what they want to achieve and how much money they've got. How do you bridge that gap as a business owner? How do you. What is your process for convincing them that they should invest more money than they're perhaps wanting to. To tell a story?

Yeah, I think it's. It's a combination of a few things. And now that I have more successful campaigns and cool case studies, it's easier for me to do, but the basis still is even starting at the end. And I feel like my process, instead of starting with the what and the how, you've probably heard of that book, start with why with by Simon Sinek. And so I've kind of, for me, I always am thinking about my why, of why I'm passionate about video or why I'm doing this is because I want to help people with the gifts and talents that I have to move the needle for their business, for their finances, for their income, for their message. So I always start with my why of like, why I'm passionate about this and why I'm even in the room with them. And the second thing is trying to find out their why, but. And then taking it to what the end goal is and what the ROI or what the win is for them. And I always ask them, like, what's the win or like the accomplished dream for you so we can meet and then exceed that goal. So, like framing it from there because we need to know where we're going. Because epic visuals are great, but if they're just done just to be flashy and they're not pointed and there's not a story that's leading people somewhere, then there's no purpose to them or it'll fall flat. So it's basically like the, the kind of funnel mentality of like, where are we getting them, where do we want them to see, feel, think what, all that kind of stuff that goes into it. So I feel like we have like a more scientific. Instead of just let's just film and get the craziest B roll we can and hope for the best is really understanding them and their messaging and how they speak and who their audience. And I really feel like I'm a chameleon a lot of the times where I come in and I really want to take on their branding and I ask questions of like, what are we trying to do? What are we, why do you guys think this way? Or I like for me I enjoy learning. So if I'm doing like last year I worked with a startup and they do this crazy medical device and their goal was to raise 3 million. And I said well, what do you guys do? And they told me about their crazy awesome, it's with neuropathic pain and it's topical the way they do it. There's no, they have crazy awesome patients that they're getting great results with. And so I knew that they were trying to raise 3 million and I said well. And they asked me so, so what does it take to work with you and what's like a budget? And I say well we could probably get a cool 3 minute promo and do a day of pre production, a shoot day and one day of post and start at like the 5000 range. And then in the same sentence he said well, what can you do with 10,000? I was like, well so like just kind of setting the bar because we have to do talk facts and figures and different things that come into play. But that was after we discussed what they were doing, why it was cool, why they needed the money. And the cool thing is we ended up doing a four and a half minute promo and we did it went a little bit longer because we had so much great content. And then we did two client testimonials that were three minutes. So we did three videos for that promotion, 10,000 and they raised 3.85 million. So they got 850,000 over subscribed. And the CEO and the founder, he's really cool but he told me if we didn't have these videos we wouldn't have raised this. And we didn't even go public with it, we just sent it to people's emails for the investors. So we did a fully just email driven Invest campaign with three videos and they over subscribed by 850,000. So those kind of stories are like help my why of like man, this really works. And I love being able to tell cool stories and do epic visuals. But to see the win for this company and for them to not only hit their goal but then exceed it. That's why I say like how do we hit and then exceed it? And like these kind of stories are like whoa, this, this actually works. And it drives me and it fires me up. So when I get in the room with future clients and people that are interested, I'm like look, we've done this, we can do whatever you guys are thinking, plus more if we do it right.

I love that. It reminds me of a story of a friend of mine who had a big social media agency and they were, they were moderating big accounts like Sony and other European accounts. And they approached us probably about eight years ago now to make some, some internal kind of case study videos really talking about their why and similar thing happened. They made that video and they had an interested buyer coming from Canada. And I think they sold the company for 10 million. So it was like for what they spent on the videos. He said these videos got the attention of this company, this bigger player. And I think that what, what filmmakers oftentimes miss. And I think we bring this back to why, why there's such a disconnect between those like yourself and your company who are actively thinking about what is the outcome for the client. What does it matter what really matters to them as opposed to what great footage can I put in my reel? That is a big disconnect I feel in the market space. And I would say that less than 5% of all video production companies actually get that it's about the client's outcome and not yours. Why do you think, just to pivot this question slightly, why do you think so many people at the moment are struggling in this current environment when you and I and my clients are experiencing a very different set of circumstances?

Yeah, I mean from what I've seen and the way I operate, whatever I do, I want to be relational. And that means in business and in marriage and in parenting and in friendships and all that. And that's really been a huge kind of center point of my business is to not treat people as dollar signs and facts and figures and be transactional. The transaction is part of it, but the relationship. A lot of most of my clients are friends now through the process after it, that becomes amazing referrals. I'm not even doing it for the referrals. I just look at them on a human level and I think that really helps for me. Working on these big budget movies and seeing all these stars and everybody that are world famous people. But at the end of the day we all go to sleep, we put on our pants one leg at a time. We're all human. Like obviously our bank accounts might look different, our lives might be different, but we are still human. We all still function and think and operate mostly the same. So I just look at people, whether it's a CEO of a multi billion dollar company or whatever, whoever I'm working with, or an investment bank. It's. We're people. We probably all have relationships. We all have hurdles and heartache and things that we go through. So when I focus on that and really go in there in the room and saying, like, I want to help them, and I want to help them achieve whatever they're trying to do, that's different than a lot of other videographers that I've come across. Some that I've known. It's been more, like you said, more about what can I get out of it for. From, like, the videographer side or the average kind of video guy mentality is like, how do I get paid? How do I keep the lights on? How do I make a cool reel and then get in and get out? So it becomes more transactional from what I've seen, versus relational. So I think for me, that's been one of the big differences that I've kind of zoomed out and looked at my company and my life versus other people right now that I know that are struggling too, that are doing video.

I know Gary Vaynerchuk famously said, just care. Like, that was it. That was it.

Yeah.

It just. And I remember. I remember taking that on and going. Because I've always had a pretty kind of caring approach to business. And some of my mentors will say to me, oh, look, you. And, you know, you know, Dan, you're too nice. You know, you know, you deserve to be doing better. It's like, no, I. I actually. I learned years ago that I am who I am, and my values are my values, and I only want to work with people who share my values. If that means I don't grow as fast, I'm okay with that because I'm in this for the long game. And I. I just. I just focus most of my energy on my clients. I used to do a lot more social media. I used to try and be on Facebook and Instagram, all these channels. And I found myself just exerting an enormous amount of energy having conversations with people that didn't really matter. They were kind of superficial. And when I started just focusing on my clients and on the show, everything started to change. And what I've experienced in the last six months is that the members of my community have been growing stronger. And we now have this philosophy that whatever's going on out there is fine. I'm largely going to ignore it and work on what I can focus on. Because you're explaining countless examples just now where businesses need your help and they need your help to take a complex idea and tell a story. What else do you think is going on in the marketplace? Why are you winning when others are not?

Yeah, I mean, I think I, I operate, I think a lot like you how just wanting to help people and I'm the kind of person would give my shirt off my back to whoever and for my family, my friends, a stranger, a homeless person. Like I'm that's operating for my values of being a Christian. And even with my logo, having the cross at the center of it and wanting to live with an eternal perspective for my own life and bringing that to business, it's obviously I full credit for me and everything in my life goes to God. But then also realizing that in my life, like you said, we're only, we can only control so much in our own sphere. And even outside of that, I'm not making my heart beat right now or my lungs work or my cells work. Like if you understand how much we really don't have control of and the stuff that we can control, our actions and reactions and everything of that nature, I think just helps keep me centered. So even when I meet with clients, I never like want to force anybody into a gig. Like I don't want to be a used car salesman. I don't want to be shoving it down their throats. I'm really there to help. Even before you got, we got on a call, somebody wrote me on LinkedIn and just said, hey, I just tried to do a live stream and it didn't work. Do you have any ideas? And it's somebody I don't even know. I said, yeah, well check. This is like I just want to provide value. So if we can provide value without even it being a transactional thing, I think, I mean people can see through that. We have instincts for a reason. We are not dumb. We've seen enough social media and sales and ads and everything that we are all experts to know what's BS and what's not. So.

I think just knowing that and really wanting to help people has really helped me to just get on a call and have a conversation and say this is what we do. This is what I love. I would love to help you guys. If it works, cool. If, if it's a not now thing, if it's a later, I would love to help. In the meantime, I have my little one page PDF of five tips for a great video. I have another one seven tips for an amazing live stream presentation. Here's some value, however I can help you. It's. It's really operating out of that mindset and then the money and the paycheck and everything comes in and it's the right people of also choosing the people that you align with. The values, the company, the people, what they're doing. And I'm at that point now is like I can target or not even target. I can, if people approach me, then I can kind of weed them out and not have to take everything that comes through the door. And then I can choose people that align with me as far as branding or even look and feel or what they stand for and not have to be knocking on everybody's door and forcing them to buy this low cost offer or whatever.

Oh, I love that so much. JM that is, that's my music. You know, I think that partly comes down from, from niching as well. And niching, you know, if you know your market, you can go deep into that market. But I agree with you. I, I think one of the interesting things about the last six months is that the world has had to stop. Human beings have had to stop going solo, solo, solo. What's in it for me? And everyone's been forced to stay at home and consider what's important. And for me, one of my highest values is choice and freedom and freedom of being able to choose who you work with, when you work with them, and what your terms for that relationship is. And I agree with you. I mean, my clients are all my friends. I actually have a measure when I'm talking to someone about perhaps joining our program.

One of my measures is would I have you around my house for barbecue with all my other members?

Yeah, can you have a drink and hang out?

That, that is absolutely key. And I think that one of the greatest benefits of this, this change in our world is that you can choose who you work with. And I think if you chase the money and chase the money alone, you will fail. If you align yourself with what is important to you, where is the most value you can bring and you genuinely go into every situation wanting nothing in return. That is where the magic happens.

I completely agree. And we both know it's like these people that we're speaking with, they do have marketing budgets, they do value our services. And that's the cool thing is working with these people that aren't penny pinching per se, that actually know that great quality production costs money. These are the, actually the people that give us more freedom to express it through creativity. I realized the lower paying clients, the lower paying budget were the most demanding and the most, they were the hardest to please. They were wanting 20 edits later without paying for it. Like, but the higher paying clients I got, the more they allowed me to just do what I was good at and be a professional. Because they don't have the time to micromanage and they also don't have the expertise. And the reason that they're hiring me, you, whoever else that's doing this is because they realize that they can't do it. And in order to move the needle, they need people that are experienced. So I've just realized that it's like, and you get in the right rooms and the right companies with the right budgets, it actually gives you more flexibility. So if anything, the bigger budget jobs are more welcome to me, not just for the paycheck, but it's like the flexibility and freedom. And those are some of my best real work is from like huge corporate jobs. Because they said like, make cool videos. I had one company where I did a five video campaign across the US and the only thing they said was make awesome content. And I asked the questions, I did the interviews, I did the B roll stuff. And then they sent me around to fly and film all these cool videos of these professional competition shooters that are the best in the world. So I got to tell their why story of what motivated them. And I had to take their hour and a half interview because I was so interested in making into two and a half minute videos. But I mean, you know, like when you're interviewing, you can hear all the sound bites and the golden nuggets and stuff. So like I'm editing in real time in my head as we're doing the interviews. But those that to this day is one of like an amazing five video reels that I have of like, this is a crazy client campaign that they just said make cool stuff. And then they let me run like. So that's, that's the freedom for anybody that's even listening right now is don't be afraid. So much of the big companies, the big box ones or the big budgets of the banks or anything like that, they are wanting storytelling, they are wanting epic visuals just as much as you are wanting to create those. They're just looking for somebody to come alongside them and say we can do this for roi because they have to hit these markers and these metrics. So stand by your visuals, stand by your storytelling, but then also stand by your ROI and your metrics because that is also going to allow them to write the checks and clear the budget to give to you.

Jim, what a great place to wrap this conversation. Up. I will link to your website beneath this@denleny.com I just want to finish by saying, you know, I got a great bit of advice recently and someone said this on one of our calls. They were like, you know, when you're, when you're working with a corporation, those people are spending somebody else's money. When you work with a mom and pop business, they're spending their own money. They're two very different clients. And I would always encourage and mirror what you're saying, which is, go to the corporates. You're dealing with a human being, build a relationship, and from there you won't have any issues. You'll get to do all the creative things you want to do. JM it's been great to talk to you and thanks so much for sharing your story.

Thanks, Dan. It was great talking and chatting. Well, I'm sure we'll talk again soon.

Hey guys, thanks for watching. I hope you got a huge amount of value from that episode. If you're looking for additional support or resources to support your business journey, then head over to Denleny.com where you can get a whole heap of other resources, free downloads, and access all the other episodes in this series. Be sure to subscribe and I'll see you next time.