How has the Video Industry changed in 10 years with Mick Jones

G', day, folks. I am really excited about this week's episode and this week's guest, and that's because my good friend and colleague Mick Jones from Filthy Luke Films has come back to the podcast. Now, any of you have known me for a little while, we'd know that Mick and I did a podcast with Bruce Logan back in 2012 called Industry Insights. We'd all met on the set of Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout, the Zacuto Kessler production where Mick and I were driving the FS100. And we had made some great friendships on that production and got to hang out with some pretty big name DPs as well. But Mick's been very busy building his production company in Sydney and after really trying to coordinate our diaries for months and months and months, finally managed to catch up and record some episodes with Mick. This is the first of three that we're doing currently and what we're going to do today is look back at the last 10 years and look at how the industry has changed since 2009 when we started this company and just have some discussions around has it changed dramatically and what impact does that had on the kind of work that Mick's doing and the availability of work? I think you're going to really enjoy this. It's great having these very, you know, notable guests sharing their insights. It's hugely valuable and I hope you enjoy it.

Welcome to the Video Business Accelerator Podcast. Each week we uncover the secrets to creating a wildly successful and scalable video production business. With your host, Dan Lenny, discover how the accelerator program is transforming the lives of our members@www.videobusinessaccelerator.com. enjoy this episode.

Michael, it's been seven years since we last did a podcast together. Can you believe that? I think our last podcast was in the Avalon Hotel in Hollywood.

Yeah, that's. I've lost all track of time since then. I don't really. It's quite bizarre to think of. I remember, I remember it very clearly. And we must have been visiting Cine Gear or something. Yeah, or NAB or something.

I think it was Cine Gear probably.

In the peak of excited times about new gear revolutions and all the stuff that was going on around the time new cameras were coming out every six months. And it was probably.

A turning point for technology in the industry back then.

Well, you know, it's been 10 years since I started FSTOP Academy and this turning point for us setting that company up was the 5D Mark II being able to shoot full frame video. We are 10 years on.

How has the industry changed in 10 years?

I'd say in one word it's become more chaotic just in like the literal sense of the term. That when I started in production industry and television 22 years ago.

Things had a more linear structure in terms of anything to do with production. It was. It was accessible only through certain ways. Broadcast was. It was broadcast or cinema. There was no real Internet delivery or multimedia platform social media. So you sort of had these two avenues you could go down. Television or cinema really was where content was, was being made. So I now that it's just a stark contrast to that. I think broadcast is that probably the weakest of all the delivery distribution mediums. And the Internet is number one. And it didn't. I mean the Internet existed 22 years ago, but not in this capacity. People weren't watching videos on it. It was barely.

Or not on their phones.

No, I mean smartphones weren't around. So it's. The.

Technology behind distribution of content has changed the entire production landscape. Not methods of production, but how much is being made, how much is being made for what kind of content it is. You know, this was back. How's it changed even in 10 years? Like I sort of, you know, that was the change for 20. For 20 years. But 10 years it was still heavily broadcast. I mean DVDs and distribution, all that sort of stuff was. YouTube was obviously a thing.

But for what I do, I still think the change has been. Yeah, again, not in methodology but in the type of content being made. You know, that's. That's kind of surprising. And it's definitely bits. More bits and pieces of different things. Like it can be so varied. I think back then even say working on the type shows that I was working on back then, which were action sports shows and reality shows and things like that. Everything was just much more structured in terms of the way we digest content and also the way we make it. And there's just so many more random elements to. You know, I used to be on a show for say 12 weeks and that was your life for 12 weeks. Now, you know, it was still freelance, but now it's like I might be on a commercial for a computer one week and then a corporate the next and then a live webcast coverage or, you know, it's just so random.

Has. Has the way you get work changed in 10 years, you know, in 2009, how was your company at the time getting work? That's before you set up Filter Films, wasn't it?

Yeah, I mean it's essentially was really, that was a rebrand but it was still, you know, the company just sort of the way that I get work hasn't changed actually. Really it's always been about through relationships and people that I know in the industry that I've worked with in the past that have built up a trust and a rapport with and as the landscape of production changes and their job roles change and where they go, they sort of, you know, drag you along, you know, so if someone was a promo producer 10 years ago and I and now they're a content manager, digital content manager at some other company, I still would that I'm doing digital content for them. It's still about the relationships how, how I get the work. I still find that even though there is this kind of ran randomness and chaos to the business, the industry as a whole, I could chart literally five, you know, five solid relationships that I've built up over 20 years that, that are paying my bills today. As, as everything changes, the people that I work with don't and they. We just all go into different modes or different roles. So. So the.

So, so the amount of content that's being created is probably more. Yeah, it's just different channels and different platforms but the content still the content. Is that what you're saying? That doesn't matter how, how the channels change. The people that are making content are still going to need great crew, great DPs, great production partners.

Yeah. There was this, there was this turning point I think where you say my background, this is just from my background being broadcast and everything was done to a certain standard of quality and all that sort of thing. And then when sort of Internet and web video started to come into the picture as a deliverable, people would kind of like brush it aside and go. It's just, it's just for web. We don't need to hold it to the same standards. Which I never related to. I always thought, well why, why make the sound crappy or the picture less quality or anything? Just because it's just for web, you know, it was like a throwaway thing. I always thought just make it as no matter what you're delivering it on, you know. And that still happens today. I still get clients and whether it's an agency or creative director or someone who'll go we just need this stuff. It's just for web. So you know, doesn't don't put much into it or can you do it.

Cheaper because it's just for web.

Yeah, yeah. Which is a tactic I think it's more so but because at the end of the day people still want quality so I still find, I find that quite weird. But yeah, the type of content has changed as well. There's a.

The type of content that people watch and even myself, I don't watch broadcast television and reality shows and things, things like that. My where I, I digest pretty much all of my content through YouTube, through niche channels of things that I'm into.

And people are much more, I think gravitating towards what started off as self made content because it feels more tailored to you and whatever taste you've got ranging from anything like high budget dramas down to vloggers, even their quality of vlogging is getting really good. These people have become what you know, 10 years ago would have been considered a low brow form of entertainment. Self obsessed. Turning a selfie camera on yourself and talking to it to now being pretty much the primary form of any kind of content that kids and anyone consumes. It started out pretty rudimentary and with technology and with just the availability of the tools people are becoming with, with no training and self taught actually really good content creators. Some of the vlogging space is some really nice, what you would call, sort of would have called gonzo journalism or documentary stuff. It sort of worked its way into an entertainment format that's. It's interesting, it's surprising. I wouldn't have thought 10 years ago that that's kind of where it would end up. Me, I was always into my HBO dramas and stuff like that. I still love that stuff. But the commitment level to, and having the time to watch 10 hours of one show, I'm kind of like short form content bits and pieces on YouTube.

That I, and I'm pretty sure that when we started this podcast about seven years ago.

You were predicting this, right? You mean like, you know, I don't want to kind of blow smoke up your arse but you were kind of like the future is going to be niche content because it's what you were into and you could see where it was going. Do you think your prediction's been that far off? Do you think there's been anything that surprised you?

It surprised me how popular it is and how it's just the norm. I look at my young nieces as kind of a, an interesting yardstick of how media consumption has changed and the.

Introduction of smartphones and tablets and things has completely changed it and interestingly enough.

Resisted by the mainstream establishment to not deliver to it, to not worry about it, to not Think it's a thing that they needed to pursue. And you know, an obvious example of the streaming is like Netflix and how they. I've really watched them closely from a company that did home delivered DVDs to now be coming pretty much the number one original content creator on earth in such a short amount of time. That's less than 10 years. Well, less than 10 years. And the resistance of the mainstream broadcast kind of sector that I grew up in to sort of look at that as kind of, oh, you know, laugh them off a bit. Who's going to want to watch stuff on a small screen? Who's going to want to watch this kind of stuff streamed on the Internet? It's low quality but they very quickly turned that around to be the, the top end of things. So. And I, yeah, like getting back to what I look at my nieces are doing. They. The penny really dropped for me when I asked him did they want to go see the new Star wars movie at the movies? And they were like, no, we'd just rather stay home and watch Full House on our iPads. And I'm like, wow, that's so different to what I grew up. Going to the theater to watch something was so special. Like it was just an experience and an event. But it sort of dawned on me these kids now have just. They're not starved for content. We were, we didn't. You know, VHS was a new thing. Home entertainment wasn't a thing. You had TV or you went to the movies. You didn't have endless libraries of content that are tailored to your specific taste that you can just hit play and next and next and next and repeat and just go. The amount of content they consume is incred. Incredible. And so it cheapens the theatrical experience. They're just not really interested in it. Even the tent pole films.

So. So the kind of client work you're doing now compared to client what you were doing in 2009.

Okay, yeah.

How has that changed? Given there's all these different social channels and, and platforms. Are you finding the format of what you're shooting is changing?

Yes, yeah, yeah, it's definitely changing things. Either things used to be just. It was just.

Imbued into the sensibility of how things were. If we were going to make something, it was either 21 minutes or 47 minutes or 30 seconds or 60 seconds. It was all this to do with scheduling time slots on broadcast and how things went to air. And that was it. They were never seen again and disappeared. And now we've got a library of things that you know in the cloud and streaming services. So you, you even on even a TV show back in the day, like I would work on action sports shows. All this work would go into massive amounts of work and money. And then it gets broadcast and through the air it hit a TV screen and it's gone forever. It was just gone forever. No one watched it again. It just didn't exist anymore. Now you've got libraries of content that stay there forever for people to watch over and over again and find new audiences. So with that in mind, some of the client work that I'm doing now that's away from broadcast is like say for video game companies.

There's one company that I have done a bit of work for with them and they've got a massive niche audience for their video game online and a captive audience of hundreds of thousands of people. And they are insisting on high quality content, even just for interviews and profile pieces on the gamers that are involved in their community. And to give an example of how that contrast has changed from what I mentioned before about. Oh, we won't. Certain clients will say we don't care about this because it's just for web. These guys are, this is our delivery platform and they want to shoot sit down interviews on Alexas, you know, whereas the, the flip side of that is the broadcast that used to hold quality so dearly are now kind of like cutting budgets back and going, oh, we'll just give an intern a 5D and get them to shoot some content for television when it used to be the other way around.

And yeah, these companies, now they put it well, the ones that I think are ahead of the game and that are on it, they're putting a premium on quality for anything that they put out there because it stays there forever. It's on that channel.

Do you think there's. There's more work opportunity now than there was in 2009?

Yeah, there's. Yeah, yeah, I think there is definitely. There's so much more content being made, but at the same time the people who can make it and are willing to make it has grown exponentially as well. So there's more work to be done, but there's also 10 times as many people wanting to do it and able to do it.

How do you find you? You're pretty established and you rebranded filthy look in what, 2011? Something like 2012.

Something like that.

Which we will talk about in another episode because I think that's really important. But do you find yourself coming up against.

Less qualified Younger, cheaper competition, or do you find your clients going, no, we know that what we get with you is of a certain level and we know we can rely on you not to fuck it up. Or do you have you come across situations where you've maybe lost a job to someone who's just kind of doing it in the bedroom?

Like I said before, it's, it's a hard one to answer that because what I don't, what I'm not getting, I don't know. And my, I've got a really solid client base of very, a few clients, few clients that are, but they're solid, regular clients that don't seem to go away. You know, I'm sure I've lost jobs to younger, less qualified people on price. Definitely know that. But that's, it's an interesting one because the industry.

Accessibility for people to, the technology that we talked about before, cost of entry, the willingness of people to get all of this combined with a look at me. Social media movement and an ability to big up your own existence, pump up your own tires rather than having validation through experience or anything like that. It's, it's easy, it's a lot easier to craft a perception of high quality than to actually build a body of work, you know, over time. So there's a lot of people that do that. And you know, I, I don't, I'm not down with it, but that's the way it is because there's some people.

In, in, in this space now who are.

Saying publicly, online, you know, the industry's dead, people don't want quality anymore. And, and I, I don't believe that's the key. I've got, I'm, I'm sensing there's still plenty of people who want quality who are willing to pay a premium for it.

Well, just look at the two examples I, I just said before. Broadcast television used to be the absolute bastion of high standards and quality control and all this stuff. And the Internet was seen as the, the wild west of just, oh, any, any shit can fly on the Internet. It's completely flipped on its head. The, the biggest, most high quality productions in the world are on a streaming service that is Internet only that has. When people say the industry's dead, they're very looking at it in a very narrow way, I think. Well, I've, I've got colleagues that have said the same thing, but they're not really.

Often they're people that are, had long standing jobs in say with one particular company like a broadcaster or a channel. Or, or even a production company that they haven't had the exposure of having to be personally responsible for their own income. Like they have to have to think about how the industry is changing, where to look for new opportunities. They've kind of, it just comes down the pipe. So definitely if you were say in say the advertising space which has, there's still high quality ads being made but over time there's less and less ads being made and less and less emphasis being put on them and therefore less and less money pumping into them. So that's declining. If you were only to look through that prism of advertising, you could go, I know a bunch of agencies that have just shut down over the last five, 10 years because they just, there's just not that enough hunger for making that kind of content as there was. It's not as much. Again, this is, this is connected directly to the streaming services. They don't have advertising on them. You know, Netflix does not.

The models change.

The models change.

Not a commercial production where they get advertised to pay to show you ads during your.

And a lot of my bread and butter over the last eight years has been promo work, making promos for television cable shows and broadcast shows. And I've known from the get go that that's going to be on the decline because we're moving to a streaming model and everyone's trying to copy Netflix. Netflix does not have promos. We're not going to be consuming promos if that's the way it goes. So they're still being made less and less. I've watched promo departments shrink to 10% of what they were five years ago.

But what's it being replaced with? Because you're still pretty busy in fact, aren't you? Literally the busiest you've ever been in the last couple of years?

Yeah, it's different. Different kind of work though. Like I mean I'm still do, I still do promos and commercials and is.

It more content, like more kind of storytelling content for longer campaigns, social media campaigns or Internet ads?

It really is a mix. I have been busy, but it's kind of deceptive even to me. I'm more and more focused and been growing the business into end to end content creation, which is what I've always done. But it hasn't been the primary source of income for the business. That is where I'm headed because that is the current. The only currency at the end of the day is the completed bit of content that you can put up the.

Pole and that's a great place to stop this episode because I want to do a whole episode on the content model. Michael it's nice to be back like seven years since we sat there. We used to do these pretty regularly, usually in exotic locations. I mean, we are sitting in your apartment looking at palm trees, so still pretty good.

Pretend that we're at the Avalon in Beverly Hills.

Yeah, exactly. But guys, that's it for this episode. We'll catch you next time.

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