How Thinking "small" Can Be Extremely Profitable - Andrew McLean EP #093

Hey, guys, and welcome to this episode of the how to Scale a Video Business Podcast. This week I have a very special guest. One of my clients is on the show with me, Andrew McLean. Now, Andrew is the founder of Sydney Video Producer, a professional video production and marketing company that helps organizations to leverage video to promote, educate, and sell. And what we're going to talk about specifically in this episode is the way that Andrew is approaching video production from the client perspective. He simply feels like it's not enough just to make videos anymore. So he's going to share exactly his process, what he does and how he helps his clients get results, and it's helped him to grow exponentially. But what's particularly interesting is that during the whole COVID pandemic, his business basically lost a significant chunk of revenue overnight. But it was the way in which he responded, which is why I wanted to get him on the show, because he's just completely pivoted his business, taking some new opportunities as an absolutely thriving in the current situation. Has been out shooting a lot since the Pandemic happened. Working within the rules, of course. But it's a really great story to show you that despite what the media is telling you, there are still enormous opportunities. And we've been discussing for some time and we share a little bit on this podcast where we think the opportunities are going to be going forward. So I think you'll really enjoy the show. And just before you get going, make sure you head over to the resources page over@denleny.com we're adding more and more resources there. You can download for free. There's some training videos that you can get get stuck into and get some value from. And just do me one more favor. If you do like the show, please go and race us over on itunes or whatever app you're using. Really helps us to get the word out there. And I'll let us get on with this episode. G', day, Andrew. How are you, mate?

Great, Dan. How are you, buddy?

I'm glad you were able to find some time in this extremely busy time we're having in video production to do this podcast.

Yeah, thanks very much, mate. It's flat out. No, it's funny. I mean, I think I've been busier now than I have in a long time, but not necessarily working on video projects, just working on the business.

Yeah. Which is, I guess, a great place to start, you know. So full disclosure, everyone. Andrew is one of the clients that that is in the video business accelerator.

But what I've observed in the last eight to 12 weeks is a mindset that I wanted to bring you on, Andrew, and share because, well, I'll let you explain it. I mean, you know, Covid happened and everyone went oh, shit for about varying degrees of time. I think you were about a day. I was about a day.

But then you changed your approach. Can you share the journey you went on and why you think like that?

Yeah, for sure.

So like you said, you know, Covid hit. I was over in New Zealand with my family taking holiday. We had a massive 2019, just a great year. And then, yeah, you know, this whole kind of announcement started. People started getting concerned. I started getting emails while I was on holiday saying, hey, this, this looks bad. I didn't really realize how bad it was going to be until we got back. And the first week back was okay. Seemed not too abnormal. But then after that it just hit and we had pretty much all of our projects canned. But I think we all realized pretty quickly that it's not something that's going to blow over in a day or two. I guess I'm lucky in that I had the thoughts from my wife who's involved in the health department. So she was pretty upfront in terms of how serious it was going to be and what to do. So I guess my mentality was right, well, we've got the infrastructure, we've got the crew, we can still, you know, we can still do stuff, we can still make videos. It's just who's in need of those videos the most at the moment and who can actually afford to spend on marketing. And the big issue I found pretty quickly was that we typically work with larger brands and agencies who pretty much all froze their budgets overnight. But where the need is at the moment is for those businesses currently still operating and the smaller guys. And so that kind of hit me pretty quick in terms of this is a great opportunity to get involved more with small business because I love small business. I've worked in the small business world for years and we kind of outgrew that a little bit, but get back into it. And so I kind of just took a lot of joy, I guess, diving back into the community side of things. Started really working with my local community where I live, and just helping out where I could there pivoting our message a little bit towards kind of not downgrading our value in terms of our costs, but what can we do at a lower cost that's going to be really effective. Some of our larger clients we've been doing that with too, but yeah, just kind of changing that mindset to, you know, it's not all about the big 20k briefs. It's about who can we help and what does that market need from us now. So that's the kind of mindset I.

Employ, but it's also something that I know is very aligned with your purpose. I mean, purpose, something we talk a lot about in the group. Can you share.

More with the viewers and listeners about what drives you as a business? What is your purpose and why is that important?

Yeah, well, I think, you know, our purpose is pretty simple. It's, you know, we help, we want to help businesses grow through video content. It doesn't matter what you're doing with video. You can be educating or training or direct selling or whatever you're doing. You're still growing. You're growing in terms of the quality of your staff, the power of your HR team, and the staying power of your employees. So that's what we say is that it's growing businesses through video, and that can apply to anyone from like a plumber all the way through to some of our big clients like Husqvarna. So that's always been the purpose and I think it's just become a little bit more, well, probably a lot more defined with this because whenever people are spending money with us at the moment.

It'S a big investment. Any money going out of pockets at the moment is counted very, very carefully. The ROI is really important. So I think that's kind of really hit home to me and to our guys. It's just like whatever we do, it has to have a very defined function. And that's where our messaging is really, really pushing at the moment.

And I think in a lot of video production companies.

See their role is just making the video and then walking away. And I, and I've been for some time feeling like that's not the right approach. And I think with coronavirus, I mean, it's really. We're talking to Jamie McKenzie about this a few weeks ago, like, it's absolutely going to kill off the cowboys. And so why is it important to make video with purpose? Why is it important to think about roi? Why is it important to think about the client's outcomes? And, and, and you've been doing that for some time pre corona. What was it that was driving you to do that and what have been some of the benefits and results of that?

Yeah, good question. I think so when I started in the industry, it was kind of less about the strategy and more about get a brief Make a video. And I never really saw that as being a good business model. A you do a job, you walk away from it, you never hear from the client again unless they have another brief. But also, just you personally, it's not very fulfilling. I mean, you know, we fulfill a role. And that role can either be a strategic role where you're in line with your clients and it's a much more enjoyable role too, because you know what they're trying to achieve. You can work with them, you know, over and above what they're paying you for the budget for the film, but you can work with them to make it more, a huge amount more kind of profitable or effective for them. And so for me, that started, you know, fairly early on in my career. I just found myself gravitating towards that side of things. And the consulting side for me is really powerful. It's something I get kind of really stuck into more because I enjoy it. And I think that any business owner, if they're kind of just fulfilling a need, taking money and delivering a product, it's not really a good long term business strategy at all.

And I think you mentioned that you were traditionally a kind of brief LED business where you would get the brief from the client, go make the client's project.

How are you changing that? How are you kind of positioning that now with clients and how are you presenting that to the market?

Yeah, so yeah, definitely. Traditionally we didn't do any marketing really at all. It was kind of just word of mouth and relationship driven. And we'd get a lot of briefs coming through. Hey, Andrew, got a brief. We'd get the team involved, come up with some concepts, excuse me. And we'd obviously work with the client in terms of how does that brief work in with a strategy and provide some feedback. But now what we're doing is we've flipped that around because the briefs at the moment are very slowly coming in. Whereas what we feel we can do is go out to that market and tell them something they don't really know, which is a lot of people have made videos before and it can be a small business, medium or big business. And a lot of the time they haven't worked the way they would expect them to. A huge part of that reason is because they don't have these very simple guidelines in terms of how they're strategically reviewing what they're doing. They don't even understand where it sits in their funnel and the different types of videos that can work in those respects. So we're going out and Externalizing that message. We're using a couple of different platforms, getting out there on Facebook and Google and whatnot, and working with some experts in the field to make those messages resonate. So, yeah, just externalizing them a bit more. Becoming, I guess, talking to people from a point of an advisor rather than kind of a producer, if that makes sense.

And, you know, obviously you've been on a journey.

At what point did you decide, I need to step things up? I actually want to build a business and not just be a freelancer because, you know, we've all been in the position where you're making a few hundred grand a year as a freelancer, and it's pretty good. Making pretty good. Pretty good gravy. But what changed for you and what was the journey you went on to kind of change that mindset from a freelancer keeping all the money and doing everything yourself to building a business that, you know, pay people like coaches and consultants and advertising companies to help you get your message out there? Can you share.

That metamorphosis with me?

Yeah, definitely. So kind of, you know, last year was a big year for us, and, you know, I was doing a lot of it myself, and I still am very involved in the business. But it got to a point where I thought, you know what, we've got a great opportunity here to take what we're doing because it seems to be working. It's a model that's working. And whether I'm doing the work personally or, you know, my team's doing it, we're getting these really good results, and we're getting great feedback. So, you know, kind of around October last year, I think it was, I decided that, you know, I really want to step things up for a few reasons. Number one, I didn't want to be working the, you know, kind of crazy hours I was working all the time. But number two, I wanted something that was a bit more of a legacy, because I feel like what we do here is something that can kind of expand, not hugely. I didn't want it to be, you know, a huge conglomerate, but something that's a bit bigger, that can work with clients that need. What we do allows me to kind of hone in on where I know I can provide value to clients, not just on an ad suite or behind a camera or whatever, and do more of it, you know, do more of the good stuff. So, yeah, I made that decision then, and, yeah, just found it really valuable to, you know, have these different perspectives coming at me from, you know, different people and yourself and you know, I think I mentioned to you once when we first started working together that this industry, in my previous experience, was very, very cutthroat. A lot of people didn't like sharing what they were doing, which I always. I didn't like because, you know, if you do something well, there's enough business for everyone. And I think we all, as video producers and video marketers, you know, we have kind of. We should be doing our best for the clients. Right. It's not just for us. So if we can share that knowledge between an industry, like they do in a lot of other industries, we'll do better things and we'll all grow as a result of it. So I really like that approach. It wasn't just singular. And, yeah, I mean, Covid's been an interesting thing because it kind of just spun everything around. We were looking.

It was going to be an interesting year in terms of growth and especially for us, processes and strategy. And it's kind of gone back into pivoting, but still, it's really powerful to have that.

And I think. And I'd be curious to see what you think of this. But I believe it's only a matter of time before we're going to get through Covid and we'll be on the other side. And before, you know, it would be looking back, chasing your tails, going, oh, my God, like, we're so busy. Are you someone who has that. An optimism bias, who genuinely believes there's going to be a boom on the other side of this? And how are you preparing for that?

Yeah, no, absolutely, I believe that. I think the amount of communicating we've been doing throughout this, I think the messages that I'm already starting to get. We picked up a new job this morning for Ferrero.

People are starting to do stuff, and we're the guys, basically the content creation industry. They're the ones poised and ready to get these messages out. So 100%, I'm very positive. What we're doing is basically refining our processes a little bit. We've spent some time refining how we work with people, been refining our cost structure a little bit as well, just to make sure that we're providing the best value. So it doesn't mean changing our rates. It just means kind of what else are we putting into everything to make it more value.

And just kind of spending some time with our guys, training and looking at new things and coming up with new ways to kind of make content really work.

And you mentioned there that obviously we all had plans this year for revenue goals and growth. But I believe that while those revenue goals might be delayed, what's your view on the amount of growth that you're going through and that maybe you've observed with other members of the group in our community? What kind of growth do you think is going to be creating massive impact for you later on.

In terms of financial growth or in terms of business growth?

I think just general growth, business growth. What are you doing differently and what have you observed with other members of the bba? For example, how are you observing how we are handling this situation?

Well, I think the biggest growth for myself, but also for everyone else in the course has been personal growth, which reflects into business growth. So prior to all this, I definitely had a shallower view of who I am as a business owner and as a person. And this has forced me to kind of really delve into what do I want from a business. Because obviously if you're spending all this time, effort, stress, craziness, trying to keep a business going throughout it, you're going to want that business to succeed at the end of it. So it's helped me really solidify where I want to be, where Sydney Video Producer needs to be in terms of our point in the market. And it's 100% from a strategic point of helping people. So I think that'll really play into the growth of the company because we have a much more solid message now. So rather than beforehand, our message was we make really great videos and we're all, you know, we were strategic about it, but that was our message. We make great videos and you know, we're awesome, blah, blah, blah. Now it's like we help you grow with whatever you need to do, be it internal promo, sales, whatever. We help you grow that and succeed. And so that solidified as me, I love it.

And it's, it's, it's such a, such a kind of subtle pivot, isn't it? But it's the intent behind it that's changed. And share like, what is, what is being part of the video business accelerator, how has that impacted you? Perhaps, you know, since we started watching. But more so just in terms of this, these last few months where there's been a lot of disruption in the world and certainly in the video business.

Yeah, well, look, I think the main thing is we get these great conversations going as a group and your content that you provide is great. I mean, for example, this morning's call on marketing was awesome. It just helps expand your mind in terms of different opportunities. But for me, the value is having what feels like a very, very close knit, very. Everyone wants you to succeed. And whether you're having an absolute rubbish week or you're having a great week, you've always got someone to bounce ideas off. So for me, without having that, and especially we contract our staff, so a lot of the time I could be sitting here all by myself. And that can be very, very damaging from a headspace point of view, because you've got all these ideas bouncing around and whatnot. So unless someone's in here editing or filming or whatnot, you don't have that to kind of play off. And also a lot of the time you don't really want to kind of bounce those ideas off your staff. You want to bounce them off. You know, people who are in the same position, they understand where the money comes from, where it's not coming from, what's possible and what's at stake. So I think having that this group of business owners has been really powerful. Without that would have been a bit of a. Well, would have been much more of a struggle.

Yeah, absolutely, it is. I mean, the community is something we work very hard on.

We're very careful about who we let in. It is a family. It's like, it's important. So talk to me about.

How are you approaching the market now? You sort of touched on the different kind of the sentiment you're going to, but are you finding the markets responding differently? I mean, perhaps businesses that may previously have gone to an agency, Are you finding you're winning some of that kind of work? I mean, obviously pre Covid, but where are the conversations happening and how is that impact your business direction?

Yeah, so those conversations from the larger brands that would usually go to an agency, they're not really happening yet. So I mean, conversations are happening, but they're not financial conversations at the moment. Because at the moment I think a lot of those guys are still on budget freeze.

We're lucky to have some clients on retainer that are big brands and I guess would usually go to an agency and they have consistently told us that we offer great value, blah, blah, blah. And that's wonderful. So that's really great. And that's kind of refocusing my mind to make sure that we focus on providing that value. But the conversations I think that are more happening now are kind of the small to medium businesses. So I'll give you an example of fairly very successful building company here in Sydney. And you know, they've got a marketing agency that they use for their social account. And whatnot but, you know, they see that what we can provide direct to them is a lot of value. So rather than kind of going through their agency and the agency says, hey, this is the content we need to do, the agency then comes back to me, I quote, the agency. The agency marks it up and sells back to them. It's more segmented. So the agency sets the tone, the agency sets the strategy. But that client can come direct to us and say, look, this is the general kind of campaign tone. What do you recommend? And because we've been working in that kind of world of campaigns and sales funnels for so long, we can have a really good impact from a purely video perspective. So we're having a lot of those conversations at the moment with the smaller guys, even to the point of talking to some restaurants and stuff like that. They're all looking at reopening, which is really exciting. But they also know that they need to show what they've got, they need to show their wares. And they're asking us kind of, how can we do that? What are the platforms to use? Which actually brings up an interesting point that.

Probably a year or two ago, the conversations were a lot less focused on how do I use these videos? And more on, I need a video. And for me, that's not nearly as powerful as the conversations we're having now. They go, well, we need a video strategy, not just a video. And that's great because that conversation is more along, okay, what are your channels that you're using at the moment? Are you putting any paid marketing on social? Are you going down pay per click where you're leading people? And that way what we can do is take these years of experience. I produce thousands of videos and say, this is the style that works for here. This doesn't. And that's a really good conversation. I think that's happening because people know they need to get results quickly, not just make a video for kind of, you know, one of a better work ego sake.

Yeah. And I'm curious, I mean, do you think the. Well, I'm going to say this. The industry has changed full stop. And Coronavirus has just enhanced and sped up that journey. You know, I think we had Andrew Banks on a session a few weeks ago and he was sharing that what was going to take 10 years has happened in 10 weeks. So the industry is going to change. It's never going to be the same again. But. But where would you be predicting what you think is going to happen to video production companies who don't evolve, who don't get past just making a video. Is. Is there space in the market for them? Are we going to see them disappear? Like, I mean, is there going to be an Uber vacation of the video industry? And is it happening quicker than we expected?

Yeah. Well, that's really interesting because that was one of the things I thought of initially when this hit. Right. So I think we did have kind of an Uber vacation of the industry a little while ago. We had some companies that come in, they provide a camera kit. They do the editing, or you send it to them, they do the editing. And.

I always had the thought in my mind that that doesn't work so well because it's putting the strategy into someone's hand who doesn't really understand the power of video and how to make it work. So I think that came and I think it's powerful and there's a market for that. But I 100% feel that the guys who kind of come in from a perspective of, look, we've got great, you know, we've got a camera, we can make you look great. They're going to disappear because they're about the imagery over the strategy. And even though it's important to make things look great, it means nothing if it doesn't get a return. So the companies that are focused on helping their clients kind of succeed and come up with new strategies and really think, you know, I guess put their money where their mouth is in terms of, you know, we've spent the time analyzing what you need to do. And here is a video as it's not the product, it's part of the result, it's part of the whole package. I think companies like that will do really well and brands will realize that that's where the value lies. The value doesn't line paying half or three quarters the amount that, say, I might charge as a company. For someone who has shot weddings for a living and is now kind of wanting to do some corporate. It's a different world. And I think that traditional corporate video company, which was all about kind of just making things look nice and pretty, they're going to kind of go down the wayside because it's all video marketing now. It's strategy.

Yeah. And I think it's just been accelerated with coronavirus. And we've been very, very fortunate in Australia here, where it really hasn't been a massive impact. I mean, you haven't stopped shooting. I think for folks in the US and Europe, it's been a really tough time. But stepping aside from how hard it's been because everyone knows that if someone's sitting listening to this or watching this and they are a traditional corporate video company, maybe where you were 24 months ago, what would you be suggesting to them as the steps to take to move into more of a strategy based approach where you're actually helping serve your clients with outcomes that they come back to you again and again for?

Yeah, I think the first thing is you need to learn what works and what doesn't. You know, we've put a lot of our own money into and time into, I guess over the last six months, testing a lot of different campaign styles and really actually finding out what does and doesn't work. We've also been, we started probably two years ago or so, we started working very close with clients kind of on their social campaigns and really getting involved in them and saying, we don't want to just give this video to you, we want to find out. So the first thing is you've got to know how it all works. You can't say we're going to make you a video for Instagram, give them that video and think that you've done your job. You've got to understand exactly how, exactly where what is going to work in terms of the copy. If you don't understand the medium that your clients are using to put your products on, you don't understand how to give them the right product. I think the second thing is you've got to step back from the sale. I think a lot of production companies, you know that the goal was or the goal is, I guess, you know, you get an inquiry and you sell them a video and you've got to step back from that, I think. And that's what we do first now. We step back from, okay, it's great, you want a video and you've got some budget, that's fine. But can we spend some time understanding why? And that turns some clients off because some clients do just want a video production and that's fine, there are people who can do that for them. But you know, I think that if you find that place of service first, understand where it's going to fit in with their strategy. They're going to see A, a much better result when they finally start using that video and B, see us as trusted advisors rather than just producers and that's where we want to be. And I kind of see us as being currently. But yeah, I think without understanding having skin in the game and if you're just out there to kind of sell each and Every person who comes knocking on your door. It's a very quick road to.

Not finding long term clients, which is what it's all about.

I love that. And I think having been a freelancer who started a business myself, I think when you're freelanced, you're so conditioned to feast and famine, like take everything. And it does take some work to move through that.

Can I ask, why did you decide to reach out to me and look at getting involved in the video business accelerator coaching program? What was the reason for that and what's that experience been like?

Yeah, well, I guess it came from a place of fear almost. So.

I was targeted very well by your ads on Facebook and LinkedIn. Not from a point of selling to me, but from a point of view. Every time I logged on and I saw another interesting article and I think I always had a sense of, well, we're not marketing. We keep in touch with our clients and we're doing well and we're growing. But what would happen, what would happen if we lost a major client or if we went through a crazy period like a pandemic? And so there was an innate sense of fear there. And I think seeing your content around kind of the different growth drivers and the pillars and whatnot just resonated with me because even though we were doing some stuff right, we didn't have a solid plan in place that kind of kept that moving.

And even though that's kind of a little bit gone out the window over the past few weeks because of the situation, it's still there in the background and we've still got the information to kind of fall back on. Because as soon as this is over, which will be very soon, we're going to need to make sure that we've got those processes back up and running properly. So that was the reason. It was purely from a sense of, well, fear. What happens if I don't do this? I saw that it was a solid plan and it's already helped in terms of where we segment our different markets and how we take different leads and whatnot. That's pretty much where it came from.

Yeah, no, it's good, it's good to hear that. Because, you know, I guess the thing that we always teaching in the program is actually demonstrate your value to the target market with the products and services you're trying to sell your target market. And I think that.

It'S actually very easy because if you're completely authentic and yourself, like, I don't want to say that people lie in their marketing, but Some people, it's like embellishing a cv. Some people embellish their show real. Embellish their, you know, maybe they were an assistant on a shoot with a big project and therefore it's now, you know, we work with such and such a project and oftentimes it's so obvious when you look at the mobile number and the address and you look it up on Google and that they're living at, you know, in a share house that, and there's nothing wrong with that, but we're in a time in business where everybody knows everything. And so I think being authentic is very, very important. And, and how do you, how have you embraced that? Because I know when we first met you, you aren't doing as much exercise as you are now. I think you were still smoking and, and, and, and I'm kind of guessing that part of that journey was when you joined and we started talking about, you know, sharing consistently on LinkedIn and maybe being with. Willing to be a bit vulnerable. I remember one specific post about swimming that I think had an incredible response. Can you share? Because I think it would really help the audience to understand that we're all vulnerable. We all have baggage, we all have issues, things we want to change. I know you and I are on a constant battle to kind of get fitter and healthier, but what were some of the things that you did and what were some things that you observed as a result of doing those things?

Yeah, well, you know, fitness right now isn't great. Thanks, Corona. But yeah, being vulnerable is really important. And I think the reason, what I found is that I was always a little bit reticent to get in front of the camera. You know, I always felt that, hey, you know, it's somewhere for other people to kind of do. I'm better behind the camera, you know, and if we have messages, they need to be super polished. You know, someone I work with a while back had this big thing that we're a video production company. We need to ensure that every single piece of content that goes out is super polished. And that kind of stuck with me until I realized through our conversations that that's completely rubbish. There are some campaigns, sure, they've got to look polished and look great, but being authentic and real and just being able to kind of get on camera and talk to people and say, hey, this is a thought, or I'm feeling rubbish, or I've done this in my personal life and it's made a big difference. I think it lets people see inside the person that you are and decide if they want to work with you or the company that you've built because those are your values. Right. And people buy into the values of an organization. There's some companies I would never want to work for because I don't agree with their values. And I think if you're vulnerable and authentic in your communications, which is what we're always telling our people to do anyway, you know, be authentic, it lets people kind of break down that sales barrier. You know, I'm a video strategist and producer. I mean, I'm not a salesperson. And so the problem is, if I start to think in a sales mind, I become very rigid and salesy because I'm not conditioned to be like that. Whereas if I just let my guard down and talk to about myself and where we're at and whether it's bad or good, I think it's really powerful. And yeah, I had some really good kind of traction on LinkedIn from that. And I think more importantly, it just made the connections on my social platforms more real, which is what it's all about.

I love it. We could talk about this all day. Andrew. Andrew, I'd love for people to be able to kind of check out more about you and what you do. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

Yeah, for sure. So you can check out the website, which is sydneyvideoproducer.com or you can find me on LinkedIn up to have a conversation with anyone. I'm not sure what the handle is on LinkedIn. I think it's just Andrew McLean. We are.

We'll link to it. That's cool.

Yeah, cool. But yeah, and Facebook and Instagram as well.

Beautiful.

Yeah. And I'm always up for a chat, so if anyone has anything they would like to learn or pick my brains, 100% happy to help. And especially if they want to talk about your course, then I'm more than happy.

Yeah, absolutely. Feel free. Well, mate, it's been a pleasure to have you on in this capacity and it's just so cool to watch your journey and some of the breakthroughs you've made. And I know we, you know, we probably would have been further down the line on the economic growth had we not been shut down for the best part of 10 weeks. But I'm certain you're going to see that at the back end of the year, so I'm not worried about that in the slightest. And you're doing all the right things. So. Good, good on you.

Thanks, dan. No, absolutely, 100% with you. I think it's going to be one of the biggest years for, you know, for content creation. So I'm excited. And yeah, thanks for having me on, Dan. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Hey, guys, thanks for watching. I hope you got a huge amount of value from that episode. If you're looking for additional support or resources to support your business journey, then head over to danlenny.com where you can get a whole heap of other resources, free downloads, and access all the other episodes in this series. Be sure to subscribe and I'll see you next time.