How to Scale a Video Business Podcast EP #097 - The Crash Course On Getting Started With Google Ads - Mike Rhodes

Hey guys. Dan Lenny here with another episode of the how to Scale a Video Business podcast. Now today's guest is Mike Rhodes from WebSavvy. Now Mike is probably one of the world's, if not the world's leading authority on Google pay per click advertising and the Google Network. And I was fortunate enough to meet Mike and strike up a friendship and he was very kind to share half an hour with us on how video businesses can use Google advertising very cost effectively to extend their reach in the marketplace. Now Mike is an extremely busy guy, but was very generous and kind with his time. He particularly talks about, you know, some of the simple strategies we as video producers can implement in our business for very nominal amounts of money to make sure we extend our reach beyond just natural search. So this is, this is about, you know, finding some, some revenues and budget to put into paid advertising, but in a very simplist way to make sure when people search for you, you're easy to find. So I think you'll find this to be a very powerful episode. Now it is an audio only episode, but I'm certain you'll get a lot of value from it.

So Mike, thanks for sharing some of your time. I feel like I'm asking you to do something way below your pay grade because normally you're on stage, you're speaking in front of thousands, but seeing as I've got you never want to miss an opportunity for the small business owner who's perhaps in a position where they've never had to do any marketing. They've done 250 grand a year. They're like, hey, I do 250 grand a year without any marketing. They sometimes see paid advertising as this like bottomless pit of costs. Can you take me through how you would recommend a small business who's never done any paid advertising would approach things like Google and other paid platforms?

Certainly. And I will first say it can be a bottomless pit if you do it wrong or if you hire a shark of an agency. And God, there's plenty of those out there, but we'll, we'll get past that. What would you do? So there's a whole bunch of different type of ad campaigns that you could run. There's a bunch of different, if you think about it from your prospects point of view, you're either going to go to Google where you're going to see a text ad. If we were talking about retail and E commerce, we might also talk about those little square ads over on the side, those shopping ads, but that's not important here. So we've only got to worry about text ads or we might be wandering around the web on, you know, sites like Oprah or ESPN or Sydney Morning Herald. All of these sites have done a deal with Google and they're part of Google's display Network and YouTube and Gmail are part of that. So you might also see a banner ad on sites like that or a video ad on YouTube. We'll keep things really simple. We'd start with just a search ad. If somebody is searching for you by name. Yeah. One of your clients is, I believe, Red Balloon here in Melbourne. So if somebody is sitting down in front of Google, they've been told, hey, Red Balloon did great video production.

The first thing they're going to do is type in Red Balloon. Now if someone is looking for you by name, you want to make bloody sure that they can find you. You may already rank number one organically, but if you don't bid on your own name, there's a fair chance that some of your competitors will. And if you think about the real estate that shows up on Google on your phone, which is where more than half of people are searching, an ad can fill the whole screen. So three or four ads above your organic listing, yes, your top of organic, fantastic. But three or four ads above that, now people have to scroll through two pages just to get to your free listing. So running ads on your own name, that could be the name of the, the principal, the founder, the CEO or the name of your business, that is a no brainer. It's a great way to get started. With Google, it's very hard to get it wrong. Google knows you are the most relevant business for that name, so it's going to give you those clicks very cheaply, Very hard to screw anything up. It's a bit of a defensive move. It's insurance essentially. Yes. You're going to spend a few cents per click on something that you could maybe argue, maybe you don't exactly need. But by doing that, it's going to block almost all the time, it's going to block your competitors from being able to show an ad above yours. So that's the first place to start. Bid on your own name. It's called a brand keyword. You might need two or three of those. Super simple to set up. You literally could be up and going in 10 minutes. Very, very hard to get wrong. You're not going to melt a credit card. Remember with Google you get to control all the settings and the two you really want to worry about. A budget. So a daily budget, you might set something like that to be five bucks a day. There's no way it's going to go off on a rampage and melt your credit card. And how much are you willing to spend per click? Well, if somebody is coming to us, they've been referred to us, they might be worth 50 grand a year to us in revenue. Am I willing to spend a buck or two on a click to make sure they can find me? Hell yes. So maybe you set that bid at a dollar and see how you go.

I actually had a competitor of mine bidding on my name. Gave me the shits.

But actually, fair play to them because.

I wasn't bidding on my own because I didn't know.

Right. And it's completely legal to do both from a law of the land point of view and from Google's point of view. The only thing you can't do is be deceptive and misleading. So I'll use. Is it Red Balloon? No, it's a balloon tree. Yeah, I used Red Balloon for some reason before, didn't I? A competitor of Balloon Tree could bid on their name and show that ad above. That's completely fine. What they can't do is be deceptive and misleading with their ads. So they can't put the phrase balloon tree in in their ad and pretend to be those guys. That's out of order. And if you keep doing that, you'll get a cease and desist letter from someone's lawyer.

And so, for example, there's this character is bidding on my name, but if I then did my own ads on danlani.com that would automatically, because I'm the more relevant, would that automatically put me in the top position?

Unless they're bidding like 20 bucks and you're bidding 5 cents, Google is going to say, hey, you're way more relevant for Denleny. So I'm going to put your ad at the top. In fact, nobody else now is going to show an ad at the top. So it's not like you now become the top of three or four. It's going to say, I've got one massively relevant advertiser and two or three not at all relevant. So it's going to make you the only ad now at the top. And it may still show their ad at the bottom of the page, but chances are it won't show their ad, but it's not going to get in the way. So just by doing that, just by bidding, even if 80% of people won't click on it, anyway, 20% of people will click on that. Most will skip over it and click the organic listing anyway. So it's not like you're paying for every click on your brand from now on. And each click is going to cost you 50 cents, maybe.

You must see this a lot in the years you've been in this space. When small businesses start to look at advertising, they just worry about what they're going to spend rather than seeing it as an investment. And what advice would you give a small video production company who's perhaps never done any advertising, as to what to expect in terms of time frames from starting to perhaps seeing results? Let's say they want to bid on the phrase Video Production Melbourne, right?

So now we're going that one step further down the line and bidding on what we would call a non brand keyword. So a brand keyword is the name of your business, essentially, and you might have two or three variations of that. Now, if you want to go after something like Video Production Company, Video Production Melbourne, something like that, well, now we're in a competitive auction space and there are maybe 20, 50 other advertisers going after that same term. And just like you're bidding on a house at the weekend at an auction, the more you bid, the more likely you are to win that auction. There is a misconception that you buy a keyword and, oh, well, I'm bidding five bucks so nobody else can do it. Every single time someone searches Google runs off and does an auction. We won't get into that, but this is where you can melt a credit card if you do things wrong because Google is constantly going to suggest, oh, you're bidding five, we recommend you bid eight and then when you're bidding eight, magically, it recommends that you bid 12 and then 15 and you know, even way back in the day, I remember a guy, he was selling curtains and blinds here in Melbourne. This is probably 10 years ago. And he was spending $21 a click in a market that he should have been spending a buck. That was 10 years ago. He was spending 20 because he was just blindly following Google suggestion. I'll answer the question finally, which is you must go into it with a mindset of investment. This is an investment. I used to trade options for fun on the side. And my options trading mentor told me, like, you've got to go buy some data from the market. You can't expect this to be profitable week one or even month one. Same thing with Google Ads. There's going to be a process of you educating yourself. But, like, you can't learn to ride a bike by reading a book. Same thing with Google Ads. You can't learn to do it. I wrote a book on it. It's, I think, quite good. I wouldn't suggest your listeners go listen to it unless they're suffering from a sleep disorder and they need help getting to bed. But you don't need to do that. But you do need to go into it knowing, okay, I'm not going to get this right straight away. There's going to be a period of adjustments. And for a very small account like we're talking here, where maybe I'm bidding on half a dozen keywords, it's never going to be completely set in the gap. I would never recommend anyone set up a Google Ads account, plug your credit card in, and then walk away for a year. But you're not going to be doing what my team would be doing here, looking at that account every day, making adjustments every day. You might log in once a month and just make sure nothing's gone crazy. Or maybe, oh, I need to.

Stop bidding on this keyword and try this new one. Because two mindsets, investment and experimentation. If you really wanted to get great at this, you've got to go into it with, okay, whatever we start with is not what we finish with. We're going to be adjusting and tweaking and experimenting, testing the whole time. But for a very small account, half a dozen keywords, not an issue. But you definitely need that investment mindset. And you've got to be willing to spend money to acquire new customers. So, I mean, but what's a new comfort for your typical client, a video production company? A typical client might be worth 10, 20, 30 grand in rev.

Oh, easily, easily. I mean, one job could be at the cheap end, three or four thousand dollars for a couple of days, and.

If you get lucky, it's 100, 150 grand.

Yeah.

So would you be willing to spend 100 bucks to acquire a new customer?

Lifetime value? Now, another thing that I've observed and I always talk to my CL science about this is like, just because other people are advertising doesn't mean they know what they're doing. And the number of ads I see, they end up, you know, in top three positions for, let's say keywords, video production, Melbourne or enter your town's name, but they just go to their homepage.

Now, I was always taught that, like, you want to send someone to a landing page that has relevance to the search phrase. I see so many people just advertising to their homepage with.

No call to action, no kind of taking the customer on a journey. What are your thoughts on that today in 2020?

Well, yeah, it entirely depends on how good that homepage is. Everyone has a website, but do they have a website that works? Has that been crafted in such a way as to capture that lead, to provide massive value first? So that someone says, oh, these guys get me. They understand my problem. I feel like I'm in the right place. I don't need to hit the back button and go back to Google and start searching for anybody else. I feel like I'm in the right place now. Most homepages don't do that. So once you start spending money, if you're going to send people to the homepage, there's no form to be seen, there isn't much relevance there. And so, yeah, then they go tune out and all too easy to hit the back button. A landing page, which might be a page on the site that already exists, or it might be a page that you create to run with your Google Ads campaign, is generally going to be laser focused on that one thing. So we talked about non brand keywords, right? The simplest one here would be video production. Insert the name of your town. But there are all sorts of variations on a theme there that you might go, maybe it's conference production company or conference video recording or something. So then you want a page that talks all about conference stuff and how you're going to turn those videos around very quickly, how you're going to maybe edit at the back of the room live and you're going to look after the speakers. And because that's relevant, there's. I think there's only really two rules with. And I'm not a website designer, but there's only two rules with make it easy, make it relevant. And the more relevant you can make it, the more someone says, ah, I'm in the right place. These guys get me. I'm going to plug my details into that fact. Yeah, I'm going to pick the phone up now and talk to them. So that's why you might have a landing page. It's not necessary, it's not a rule that every ad must go to a landing page. But yeah, please don't turn them to a crap homepage.

Yeah, exactly.

And then I guess the next logical.

Step, I'm guessing is something called retargeting.

You're good at this. On you, absolutely. So retargeting, also called remarketing, is simply re marketing. So marketing again too. And the simplest way to think about this is we've all experienced this. You go to a website and then over the course of the next few days, maybe even weeks, a little ad seems to be following you around the Internet. So that's remarketing. You're showing an ad to somebody not based on what they're doing right now, that is searching for video production Melbourne, but based on some action they've taken in the past. And the most obvious or easiest to conceptualize action there is they have been to my website in the past, let's say 30 days. So anybody that's been to my website in the past 30 days, I put a little piece of code on my site and I add them to a list or an audience. So I've got this list of people that have been to my website recently. Now it's like an invisible email list. I know nothing about these people. I don't get an email address or an IP address. I don't know what type of computer they're on or if they were at home or at work. I know nothing about them. But Google does, and Facebook and YouTube, which is part of Google. LinkedIn has remarketing. There's all these different platforms we could use. Many small businesses don't get a lot of traffic to their website, but that traffic that they get is highly valuable. There's a lot of people get referred, a lot of word of mouth. Maybe they bounced into one of your ads and clicked through and had a little look around. But the vast majority of people leave a website the first time not taking action. So remarketing is a wonderful way then to gently, gently get back. And by gently, I mean not hammering them with ads for the next like four days, showing them an ad every hour, but gently reminding them who you are and what you've got to offer. So maybe you have. I always used to describe this like the FBI, like you want to, because you're following people around the web, essentially, right? So follow people the way the FBI would follow someone, not the way the creepy guy would follow someone. When the FBI follows you, you don't know it because they keep swapping out different men. And then there's a helicopter and a van. And so the way to do that, the analogy is have half a dozen different ads. It sounds like a lot of work, may be expensive, but a decent designer will knock up half a dozen ads for you. A few hundred bucks. And now you've got one that talks about your brilliant video production, one that talks about your turnaround, one that highlights Maybe a recent client, one that's a testimonial about you. And now they're just seeing. Maybe it's once or twice a week. They're just seeing these different messages, different benefits of your business. You're looking much bigger than you are because, wow, these guys just. I remember them. I went to their website the other day again, not being hammered and not being creepy, not which is the creepy guy following you, going, hey, you were just on our website two days ago. Yeah, come back again, come back again. We miss you. Please come back. You don't want to be the creepy guy. You got to stay on the right side of creepy. But a remarketing campaign. So now we're up to our third campaign in Google Ads, but we're keeping things nice and simple. That could be as simple as start with one banner ad. It's just the name of your business, and there's a call to action there that just tells them what you can do for not saying, hurry back, we miss you, but just why you? And that one ad that maybe they see a couple of times a week for the next four weeks, and if they haven't clicked on it, you stop showing it to them because clearly they're not very interested and they haven't been back to your website, so they don't get re added to that invisible list that we were talking about, and they just naturally stop seeing it. Now you want to go to the next level. You're a video production company. Maybe you're good at creating videos. So you might create a little YouTube video and you choose again to. Don't show this video to everybody, Google. Just show this video to people that have been to my website in the past 30 days. Hey, Facebook, we'd like an ad on Facebook too, please. But let's only show it to people that have been to my website in the last 30 days. And now, again, without being annoying and creepy, they're just thinking, wow, these guys have got their shit together. Like, I'm seeing an ad on here and an ad over here. A mentor of mine used to say, fish where the fish are and feed a fish what a fish wants to eat. So different people are in different places. You're on YouTube every night. Some people live on Facebook or Insta. Some people search all the time. So people are in different places. Instead of trying to guess where they might be, let's put one little ad in each place and we get a very good chance of getting back in front of that person, inviting them back to the website. And Hallelujah off we go.

Which is the mere exposure effect where the more times you connect and see and interact with a brand, product or service, the more familiar you become, the more likely you are to start to trust them.

And it's Cialdini stuff like Robert Cialdini, this, this great marketer that many of your listeners probably know about. But the stuff that we are, that is brought to our attention seems much more important than the other stuff. And so if I keep seeing this name. Wow, like these, yeah, these guys, I think I need to go back and talk to them. And you're the name that they now think of because they were still shopping around. They haven't taken action yet. And again, you're going to stop showing ads them fairly soon. You're not going to keep annoying them forever. But that, that those three campaigns, your brand campaign, you probably struggle to spend $5 a day on your non brand campaign. If you were going to go after video production Melbourne all day, every day, yeah, you could probably spend a few thousand dollars a month there. And you might not want to go after such a popular keyword on day one. You might start with something a little bit more niche that less people will be going after. You could leave that alone for a bit until you sort of understand Google. So I'd start with the brand stuff because it's so easy to get right and it's going to just help bring a few more people to your site and it's a way for you to start learning and get less scared of making this investment in Google Ads. And then a remarketing campaign, you can start with one banner ad or one video or a little bit of both. And that alone will elevate you above, you know, I would imagine 95% of your competitors, 100%.

Of course the other thing you can do if you're active, we a lot of my clients I've suggested get on LinkedIn and go quite hard organically on LinkedIn. But of course with LinkedIn, with Facebook, with Instagram, any content you post, the platforms themselves build up a retargeting list.

You can market to people who just consume your content.

Yep, yep.

Who better to go after someone cold, what we call a cold audience, someone that's never heard of you, never seen you, doesn't know like or trust you, or someone that's previously interacted with some of your content, someone that's watched a few seconds of a video that you might have posted to Facebook. Now we sort of picture that person falling down to the next level of your Marketing. So they were completely unaware of you at the top. Now they're somewhat aware and then if they interact again, maybe we move them down to another level. And these are the most aware people. That's where I'm going to spend most of my money. It's exactly why we start with that brand keyword. If you think about those people are right down the bottom. They're the ones that are most aware of you and what you do. Those are the ones that are most easy to turn into revenue for your business. So let's start there and grudgingly work our way up one level at a time.

I read in the one page marketing plan that only 3% of the market are ready to buy now. Another 7% could be persuaded to be buying, but another 30% might be interested sometime in the next six months and the other 30% are not interested in the other last 30% wouldn't buy, it's free. So really what, what I get from that is, you know, 14 every 100 are in the market at some point in the next six months. So is this a really good reason to be using some spend on ads because you want to be nurturing people to put them in a position where when they're ready, you become the automatic choice.

Well, particularly for your audience and what they're selling now, every different thing that we're sitting in these chairs that my guys bought for this new office here and that was probably.

I don't know, a day to a week long decision making process that they kept me out of so that they can make a decision quickly. If you're buying a video production company, I would imagine that is a weeks long process of researching and looking at different people's websites. It's the perfect timeline then for a gentle remarketing campaign. Some of our clients are home builders. That's an 18 month cycle where we just want to gently and again each time they come back to the site, we add them to the list again and then we might choose to show them a different campaign. But you don't need to go to that level of complexity. It's just they were on our site recently. What's that message that we need just to tip them over the line knowing exactly as you just said, that 2/3 of them are never going to come back. And that's absolutely fine. But we've got all sorts of tricks that we do there where we focus our remarketing on the people that we know are the most likely of all those visitors who are the most interested in what we do. Who clicked through a few pages on the site, who watched videos on the site, who downloaded that free PDF that we gave away? And, and we remarket to different levels of people, not just everybody that came to our site. But even then, what we're suggesting is a easy starting point. Instead of showing your ad to everybody in Melbourne or everybody searching for video production, honing that in and going after the people that are most likely to lead to revenue for you and not bothering to show ads to the other 90%, just start with what's going to work.

So a way to reframe. For someone who's maybe anxious about spending money on ads and recognizing that you need to invest some money to get things started, a way to reframe that, from what I'm hearing, is think of amplifying your message and you're sending out. You're spending money to get the message in front of as many different people as possible to identify which ones will respond. And then you're focusing that extra spend on retargeting or remarketing, which in actual fact is fairly cheap in comparison to going after core traffic, isn't it?

Remarketing is incredibly cheap. Bear in mind with everything Google, it is all pay per click, right? So it costs you nothing to show an ad to someone. Now, when you're bidding on video production Melbourne, and you're paying, I don't know, I don't know what that is off the top of my head, but let's.

Call it 10 bucks, 10 to 20 bucks, but imagine.

So let's say you're bidding 20 bucks. If somebody clicks on your ad, then you'll pay the 20 bucks to Google, but maybe 10% of people will. So you're showing an ad to 10 people that are looking, they're seeing your brand name, that maybe helps a little bit, but you're only paying for that one. Now, remarketing is probably going to have maybe 1 in 500 people actually click on that ad. Maybe if you've got an amazing value that your service offers, maybe it's 1 in 100. But again, 99 people now are seeing your brand, seeing your logo, seeing your name over the course of that two, three, four weeks and you're only paying for the one in the hundred and maybe you're paying 50 cents or a buck for that if and when they click and then come back to your website. So huge leverage. And as you just said, the game is, the game that we play every day for our clients is more good, less bad. We're constantly Looking in every corner of that ad account. We might be bidding on 20,000 keywords for our clients and running thousands and thousands of different banner and video ads. We're constantly looking at what's working well, what's not. How do we do more of the good stuff, less of the bad stuff? Tweak, tweak, tweak. Bit more of that, bit less of that. That's the game.

Back in the day, maybe 10 years ago, the display network was a big thing.

Is that still being used, but as a kind of retargeting tool so you could actually create simple banner ads that would display in all these different partner sites. Is that something that's still still relevant today?

Oh, absolutely. It's huge. So the display network is 2 million websites strong, plus a million apps. The targeting, the big thing that's changed is the targeting. Obviously, costs have gone up in 10 years as well, but the targeting now is far more focused on the person that's on the site rather than the site. So we used to the main way we would target is based on the content of the page someone was reading. So if they're reading a page all about video production, hmm, maybe they're more interested in video production than the average person. Let's put our ad there. Of course, the problem with that is we end up showing ads to all of your clients who are on the video production page because that's their game that they're in. So sometimes that worked, sometimes it didn't. But that was really the main way. You basically had to say to Google, go find me pages that are about X. And then you had to come up with ideas of all the different X's that you wanted. These days, Google has more data than God, the God of your choice. And. And it will know who is in the market for things like video production based on all of their searching and browsing history. Who would you like to show an ad to? And you can either pick from a list or you can build your own list. It's incredibly vast and complex, but we can now say to Google, hey, people that have been to sites like this recently and searching for stuff like this recently, put my banner ad or my video ad in front of those people, please, Google, because you know who they are, you know where they are when you see them on one of your sites. Put my hand in front of them. Thanks very much.

So what you're actually doing is relatively inexpensively, you're paying a big machine, Google, to go and find your customers.

It knows who they are, where they Are who the ones that are more likely to click, who the ones that are more likely to convert, fill in the form on your website, etc. The machine is getting very, very, very smart. It's not perfect by a long way yet, but it is getting much, much faster. And yeah, and if I said faster, I meant better. The machine is getting better all the time, but.

Oh, got my audio cut.

Out, sounded a bit weird. I think we're all right.

So the machine is getting better all the time, but it's not perfect yet.

So.

I'm a huge advocate of video production companies going niche, picking a vertical or picking a market. It sounds to me like, give me.

A couple of examples.

So, you know, maybe you focus on event videos, but you know, you don't do event videos and weddings and corporates and commercials and all these kind of jack of all trades. And you know, what I'll often say is, you know, to someone is if you're, if you're focusing on creating internal trains and internal comms, internal training, that's a different marketing message to someone who's making promotional films. And a lot of video production companies fear being too niche for fear of missing out and work. But would, would being more niche assist in your marketing with something like Google?

Well, what are our two rules? Easy and relevant. So if I'm looking for, I don't know what it would be. Corporate training, video production. And here's an ad in front of me that says corporate training, video production. And it's in my town and da da da. And then they take me to a page, not the homepage, but they take me to a page that is all about corporate video production. And it's got examples there from people that are just like me, quotes from people that are just like me saying how wonderful they were. The headline, the copy, everything on there, like, oh my God, this is perfect, I've found the right guy. I'm asking them, I'm picking up the phone right now, I'm calling that number at the top of that website and let's go. If you're trying to be all things to all people, nobody listens. But if you zone in like that, it's so attractive to people in that market. Now what you could do, obviously is you could now go and have, okay, we've got a couple of keywords for that thing and a landing page for that thing. You could now go if you really wanted to and you didn't have enough work or something, go buy a bunch of wedding video keywords and send them to the wedding video page that you have built for a couple of hundred bucks and go test that, and you might end up testing five or six niches and then go, holy hell, number six. This is cracker. We spend a hundred bucks a week on these ads to this landing page, and we're making 50 grand a week in rev. Let's just drop everything else and stick with this. We found a winner. Now, there's lots of people that have done this with Google Ads, with Facebook ads over the years. They may have started as a video production company. They find that little niche that works, and now they go license that marketing machine to other video production companies, maybe all over Australia or all over America or all over the world. And they go, you need an ad like this with a postcard like this and a landing page like this. And here's the phone script. When you pick up the phone and they've got it down to such a fine art that they just go and license that to a few hundred people that do what they used to do and they become a marketing company. Because ultimately we are all, all of your clients really need to think about it this way. You're a marketing company that happens to do video production.

I think that's a perfect place to finish this particular episode. Mike, thank you so much. Where can people find out more about you? How can they connect with you? Where can they. What kind of resources do you have available for people to kind of learn a bit more about this? You are probably one of one, if not the world's leading authority on pay per click.

Well, thank you for the kind words. I would never say that about myself, but we are quite good at what we do, I think a couple of places. So websavvy.com au that's W E v s a v v y that's our done for you agency service. So if you want someone to run ads for you now, you need to be spending sort of five or ten grand a month minimum in terms of your ad spend in order for it to make sense to work with us. But if that's what you're spending, then let's have a chat. I train a whole bunch of competitor agencies in house marketers, business owners at my sister company, which is agencysavvy.com so that's where we teach agency owners how to build their agency. But we also teach all of the technical side of everything we've been talking about, Whether it's display, YouTube ads, Facebook ads, Google shopping, all of that stuff, or just hit me up on Facebook and ask me a question. Fb.com mikeroads thank you very much. My absolute pleasure.

Dan, you've been listening to the how to Scale a Video Business podcast with me, your host, Dan Lenny. If you're a video business owner who's hit a ceiling and we benefit from mentorship, support and coaching, then check out how you can work with me over@denlenny.com don't forget to subscribe and rate the show over on iTunes, and we'd really appreciate you taking a few minutes to leave a review. And don't forget to share. If you feel you've gotten value from this episode and you think it would be useful for other filmmakers you know, then please do me a massive favor and share it on social media and in groups that you might be in. See you next week.