Should you be on ALL the major social media platforms or just one? EP #286 - Stephen Pope

What's up, filmmakers? Dan here. And today we are going to go deep into creating content now, creating content across social media platforms so that you can become an absolute authority in your field, so that people want to listen to you, want to follow you, so that you will build an audience that will then reach out to you and say, how can we do more work together? My guest today is Stephen G. Pope. Stephen, welcome is an engineer who's turned TikTok sensation and is helping content creators build content machines with a very sleek team. And this part interview is going to be in two parts. So the first part we're going to talk specifically about content creation, how to create content, where to get the ideas from. I think you're going to find this really beneficial. And then we've got another episode coming later on. It's gonna talk about how do you make the machine work?

Welcome to the Video Business Accelerator Podcast. Each week we uncover the secrets to creating a wildly successful and scalable video production business. With your host, Dan Lenny, discover how the accelerator program is transforming the lives of our members at www.videobusinessaccelerator.com. enjoy this episode.

Stephen, great to have a chance to chat to you. As I said in the intro, we met a few weeks ago at Sam Oven's Mastermind and got sat together and started talking about content. And that's an area where you are really gunning. And um, tell me for, for people who perhaps don't know you, how did you find yourself in this content world and, and what, what got you excited about it?

Yeah. So the short version is I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. I grew another business in the technology space. I was a software developer, grew that to a couple million dollars a year do I was on Ink Magazine's fastest growing companies and I sold that company. And I, I kind of had forgotten how hard it was to start another how to start a company. And I started to go into the next one. I was like, how am I going to do this? I started researching how people were doing it. I knew number one video had to be a centerpiece of it. I did start to get introduced with people like Gary Vee and stuff like that. And I've always been the kind of person that can connect the dots. I was like, I trust that guy. He doesn't seem like a scammer to me. And I see a few people, they're talking about how content is this. I didn't know how it would work, so I just jumped in. I started creating content on LinkedIn started creating videos for a different business that I don't actually, that I'm not running right now. I started doing all that stuff and I just started to kind of fall in love with marketing video content. Realizing, man, I could have built my other business so much faster, I knew I had to build this next business a lot faster. I had kids, I couldn't let it evolve the way I did. And so ultimately I just started to develop new products around marketing and video. And of course in the beginning they were somewhat generic because my understanding was more generic. And then over time, I just started creating a lot of videos, running into all the pain points, because I'll tell you, getting into content is hard. There's a lot of little things to it. There's like making good content and then organizing it and distributing it and all these different things. And then through that process, I started applying all my engineering skills, my frameworks, my systems, technology, automation to solve all the problems I was having started creating videos on those people were really excited and then used the content to develop new products, essentially, which I think is people always.

People'S understanding of content's too short, short sighted, which I understand. It's like how many clients or how many videos until I get a client. And but in reality, there's all these really interesting things that come from creating content. Like, yeah, you get clients, but also you develop new products. You people start posting your videos into Facebook groups and people start reaching out to you in all sorts of weird ways.

So that's really like the backstory of how I ended up in this spot where I help people create really good video and then I also help them create all the systems to distribute it.

I remember back in about 20, maybe 2016, 2017, and Gary Vee was doing DailyVee and his whole mantra was just document your life. And he had Drock following him around and he was going in and out of meetings. And I remember working with a mentor at the time. He said, you know, um, Gary had said to him, you've got to get into your content game. And so I started making content as well. And we did daily videos. They were like tips videos. And we did like a hundred tips videos for a hundred days and then we put them out again for another hundred days. And then I started making these like three or four minute web series. I called them Be Real, B Real. So a bit of a reference to filmmaking. And. And we put a lot of work into them. And I remember at the time thinking, God, this is just like such a lot of work. And you could never really tell if it was valuable. But I remember, I remember distinctly a client of mine, he became a client for a couple of years, saying, when, When I. I'd been on your email list, but when I saw your Be Real videos, I got to see who you really were. And then when we had a conversation, I felt like I already knew you.

Exactly.

And, and I think at the time.

I became overwhelmed by the, the not having a system for producing it really well. And then I ran out of ideas. I ran out of ideas of what to post about.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of people, you know, four or five years on, I'm starting to move back into content. But what, what advice would you give to someone who is. You know, our audience are largely filmmakers.

They're.

They're used to making content for other people, but they often struggle with putting themselves out there. And I guess as a software developer, an engineer, you aren't naturally someone who wanted to get on camera necessarily.

I was afraid. I was terrified to get on camera. Like, before I did it, I was. I didn't sleep for like two weeks. But I. The only reason why, the only way I did it is I was just committed to doing it. So.

I love the analogy of elite athletes. No elite athlete wants to get up at three in the morning and train for eight hours a day.

Yeah.

They do it anyway because they know the result is what they need to get. I think it's a very. It's the same thing with entrepreneurs, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Number one, you have to believe. Right? So you have to believe this is going to work. You have to just look around at how the world's working. Like, why are all these people doing this? Like, you know what I mean? Like, some of them are out there doing it and it's not working for them. But a lot of people it is. And for those that it's not, it's just because they probably haven't been doing it long enough. They're not making the right kind of content. So you gotta believe, you gotta commit. And then if you do those two things, the whole process is just gonna move faster for you. Cause if you don't believe, you're gonna go slower. Cause you're like, you know, like what? Like people are gonna say, what's the roi? It's like, you know, so those things are like, if I could go back, I would tell myself to just do it faster. Cause like, it's working really well now. And if I had just known that, I would've just done it. Faster. But you know, that's hard for people to make that leap. But it just, what I'm saying is the truth. Just believe, commit and do it as fast as you can because it takes a while to get good at it. And it takes a while before someone looks at your video. Unless you're just a total natural and being like, wow, that's awesome video man. Like, if that's not a natural ability ability for you, that's not going to just happen overnight. It's going to take some, some practice.

I think we have a, we live in a society where we, we're all.

Primed for instant gratification.

Right.

And so I think we often have an unrealistic expectation of what's going to work and how quickly it's going to work. And I think what happens certainly in the filmmaking world is there's, there's a natural skepticism and a reluctance to put themselves perhaps out on camera. And I think the other thing that people struggle with is like knowing what to post. And there was a comment made at the event we were both at and there was a panel of YouTubers and one of the core themes that came out of that discussion was stop making selfish content. And for selfish content, they were referring to content that you feel like you want to share with the world but may not actually be valuable or relevant to your audience. So how do you come up with content ideas and how do you recommend someone who's completely green starting out begins with that first piece of content?

Yeah, it is a little bit of a catch 22 because to learn what people actually care about, you have to produce something. So like, I believe, I believe that. But at the same time, if you only produce what's valuable to other people, then you might not be super interested in it. Probably the easiest way is like, I think a lot of the times people start creating stuff around problems they solve for themselves in a previous.

Existence or life or whatever. And if, if it's truly not that, then you look at something that you help somebody else do, like one of your existing clients, like you ultimately just have to look at like, what's the transformation? Even if it's a 60 second video, what is the transformation that you can help provide someone in a short amount of time? And just, just looking at like either an existing client or in the past, like what is the transformation? And I think that's actually kind of the interesting thing is that what makes content valuable isn't always the how to information, it's actually defining what the gap actually is. So you Got to relate to what they want, what the problem is, make sure that they trust you. And then it's about like articulating what is the gap that you're going to close. Right. And then, so I think that's the way to do it is like, look, look, three or four years ago, where you were, what advice did you need then? Or what advice do your clients need? Articulate what the gap is and then people will accept your how to information. Because if you don't, interesting. If you don't do those first things first, like if I just give you how to information, but I haven't articulated, number one, that you even want this or that you should trust me or what I'm about to. Or what ultimate bridge I'm about to provide to you, then all that how to information, I'm really ultimately going to ignore it because I haven't. My brain hasn't really accepted that I even want it yet.

It's that old adage, isn't it? What's in it for me? You know, we have to, we have to sell the reason to watch the video in the first five to 10 seconds.

Yeah, yeah. And then with TikTok, they're making it even more crazy. So I have, I, when I work with clients, I have this script and it like it puts things in order, so you say it in the right order. And then once clients get good at that, you know, they're usually. That their opener is usually like 30 seconds. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, now how do you do that whole opener in like one sentence?

Yeah.

Like just cut out all that, the, all the, that useless stuff that you put in there and just get straight to the heart of it in like the first second or first couple seconds. And there's a little bit of an art to it, but it's hard.

It's hard. It's hard to edit down. Any of us with enough time can be very verbose and try and explain a concept. Explaining it in a sentence is something that I think a lot of people really struggle with.

But you know, how you can make it a little easier is to not try to solve their entire.

Problem. Like all their problems. Like, like that's what happens with most people. They go to create this video and it's like it might as well be an essay.

Yeah.

So like, you know, just, just show them how to use the mic. How do you plug it in? Like that's all you need. Like compare two mics, not 20 mics. You know, just simplify the video. And now the message is more simple and probably more digestible and probably more likely to actually be watched. But like, people are like, you know, when they, like when they're saying like when they're trying to hit the pain points, they do 10 pain points. Well, it's like just do one and then make 10 videos on 10 different pain points.

So like, because then people will naturally watch the first one and want to see the second one and the third one and so on. And therefore you get engagement and with that engagement you get someone saying, I, I'm now going to lock into this person because I trust them. What else have they got?

Yeah, people care so much. Exactly. I mean, people care so much about helping people and wanting to come across well that they actually muddle their own message.

Because they make the, they make the valuable like they, they, they feel like that has to be like two, like it's, they have to explain everything that they know in one video as opposed to one little tiny thing in, across 100 videos.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. It's interesting as well. I've been, since, since the event, I've been actively posting daily content on, on LinkedIn and a couple of really interesting things have happened is, and we've been connecting with people on LinkedIn and posting content and actively commenting and engaging on others posts. In the space of a week, I've got a woman who's booked in to do a podcast who has a platform that helps filmmakers, which will be a great story, but also a great opportunity for me to be exposed to her audience by providing her a platform. I've had a number of quite meaningful conversations with people who were complete strangers a week ago, engaging in conversations about them and their business. And then they're asking me, tell me more about what you do.

Right. Yeah.

And it's in, it's, it's effort for sure. But I was explaining to some clients this morning on one of my coaching calls, there's this concept, I think there's a belief that social media is about being everywhere and posting content everywhere. And so what people do, I think, is they kind of get one piece of content and they just post it in five different places and then they sort of set and forget.

Right.

And what I'm learning is that that's almost kind of more harmful than being on one platform and actively engaging in a way that provides value. What's your experience been. And I know you've, you're a bit more advanced. You do have a system posting stuff everywhere. But what advice do you have in those early Stages of getting started.

Yeah, I agree. I mean like you, number one, if, like, if your content isn't converting, like there's no point scaling it, right? Like if, if you have garbage in, you have garbage out all over the place in a lot of places. Right, but that's the thing. It's like learning how, yeah, like you, you need to learn first of all how social media works. I think once you learn that on one platform, when you start to branch out, your approach will be a little bit more nuanced and mature and you'll probably be able to like manage that. But you're right, like, especially on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is a networking platform. So if you solely just go there and even if you just post content there, like you're not going to get the insane organic reach that you might get on TikTok where like you could post a video and get a million views. I suppose that potentially could happen on LinkedIn, but the normal story is more, it's like a, it's like you can network at scale there. So if you imagine yourself at a networking group, that's how you should behave. And when you post content, that's like you giving a five minute presentation at the networking group. So you, you know, it's a very short little thing and you're not asking for them to book calls with you and all these different things. So, and commenting is just like walking around the room and listening to what somebody says and providing your own unique thought on it, not giving them like, you know, your website address to go book a call. So, so yeah, I agree. Like you want to learn how to use these platforms, you, you want to pick one and just get really good at it. And once you're able to, to like, you really feel like you've got that mastered and it's working, then, then you could think about like, how do I go somewhere else. But the other thing to think about is like, there's more than enough, more than enough clients on LinkedIn for you. Yeah, there's more than enough clients on TikTok or on any of these platforms. So it's like, it's a little bit odd to think that you need to be on them all. One thing I have found now that I have kind of spread out is that the way I look at it is I have growth platforms where I spend most of my time trying to grow, but I am on the other platforms to kind of network because I do notice that people will find you on one platform, but they might have a preferred one and they might then go out and reach out on their preferred one, like LinkedIn, or they might go to Instagram. So I have networking platforms versus my growth platforms, and that's how I think about it. But I only did that after trying to expand too fast and really diluting my ability. So I agree.

Yeah, I think you'll be careful not to chase too many rabbits at one time. The other thing that I've discovered in the short time I've been very actively, you know, making a much more active move on, on LinkedIn is how that networking conversation begins to feed ideas for content. So one example was I was talking to a filmmaker who.

Is. Is in the transition phase there. They're not really as focused on the corporate business. They want to make films. And I, and I got in this interesting conversation. There's a lot of interesting topics being discussed in this brief, brief conversation. I was reading between the lines. So I made a post about, you know, are you an artist or are you a commercial filmmaker? Are you someone who is.

Really focused on the art or are you focused on the business? And where does that.

Balance create friction for you? Because there's a kind of an unspoken.

Community.

Perspective which says, you know, you should be a starving artist because if you're a starving artist or you're in pain, you'll create better art. And therefore by, you know, and conversely to that, if you are making money from something that is deemed an artistic endeavor, are you somehow selling out? And it stems deeper into.

A question of people feeling good enough and especially creatives who have a. Have a sensitive and fragile.

Emotional state, which enhances the storytelling aspect. But it was really interesting just posting that slightly provocative piece about as art or commerce had tons of engagement and lots, lots of interest. And that then engaged someone who was interested to like it. I then reached out to them, discovered they have this platform, and now they're having a podcast conversation. So in the space of three days, one direct outreach conversation led to an article, led to another connection, led to a podcast, and then being exposed to a new network. And that's, that's one person. So it's very powerful.

Yeah. And you know what I think is interesting about that story is that it goes back to. One of your questions is like, how do you develop a system to come up with ideas and all this stuff? So there are ways of doing that. I have a bunch. Really? And one of them will work for you. One of them might not. But nothing really replaces just being thoughtful. Yeah, there's no system for being just in the moment and being thoughtful. You're telling a cool story and it's probably the most effective content. It's really just being drawn from something that happened and just going with it, not putting it on a list in notion and coming back to it three days later. When, when the emotion is dead, it's like you, something happened, you went with it. It's emotional that's inevitably going to resonate with people. It's going to be a better post. Like, yeah, so like for me, for instance, like, I don't really have, like at this point, I, I mean, I've experimented with so many and I. You need id. You need ways of generating ideas and keeping track of them and recording them. But for the most part I'm just in the moment and just creating things and recording things and pulling things where there's an emotional charge to it that's actually going to be the stuff that people respond to, they can connect with.

So, I mean, I think that's a great example because you got to be thoughtful and like, if you're posting on every platform and you're just trying to get to the next one, if you're just trying to create a system where it's just like, and I'm an engineer and I'm telling maybe, maybe not to do this, you know, it's just like you're going to miss out on being thoughtful and just slowing down and just.

Yeah, I remember Gary Vee said, I think his, his exact words were just fucking care.

Yeah, yeah, just care.

Just like actually care about the people you're talking to. And I think there's something else that happens. And, you know, I'm, I think probably regard myself as pretty confident on camera nowadays. I've spoken on stages, but, but I wasn't always like that. I mean, four or five years ago I was very, I was less comfortable, but I did it every day on, I think it was Snapchat. I just started posting every day on Snapchat and I started getting used to talking to the camera because talking to an audience, you get feedback. Talking to a camera, it's this inanimate object, right? And. But I still, I still have to. I still second guess myself when I pick the camera up. And I. And I think that's actually something I recognize now as a strength, the vulnerability I feel.

I woke up yesterday morning really early, went down to beach at 5am, went for a walk and I bumped into a friend of mine on the beach and she went, oh, I just woke up this morning in a bit of a Funk. And I'm like. And I said, yeah, I feel a bit flat today. And so we had a bit of a chat about feeling flat. And I said, well, you know, go enjoy the beach and I'm gonna go for a walk. And we've parted ways. And then I went for an extended walk and I. I did something. I can't remember where I heard it, but I had some advice somewhere that said, you should just take a walk some days with no destination in mind. And so I kind of did that. I walked around where we live, went around the beach, around the estate.

That's awesome.

And then I walked across a park and I thought, you know what? I woke up feeling a bit flat today. And I've walked for an hour and I feel better.

There's probably content in this, so why don't I just record a video? And you know what I said to myself? The little voice in my head was, I can record it and I can watch it back, and if it's no good, I won't post it. But I did. I actually recorded a quick video and said, do you ever wake up some days and just feel flat? What I do is I go for a walk. And it worked for Steve Jobs. And when you walk, you move and you feel better. And what. How do you. How do you get out of a funk? And I posted that with a half a dozen words just basically saying, hey, how do you get out of a funk? And tons of engagement. Because it's relatable. And I think, yeah, we. We often feel like in a world of celebrity and people with huge followings that, you know, what. What possible voice can. Can I have that's going to add any value? But I think what I've discovered, Stephen, is that by being vulnerable and sharing that we are human often engages a deeper connection.

Yeah, I think so, too. And that goes for, like, what you're going through right now. And also, also like. Like, it's like, I guess it's imposter syndrome, not feeling like what you have is valuable. And. And so when I'm talking to people a lot of time around this, I'm also talking because a lot of times people, it's like, hey, I haven't done that yet.

So how can I make content around it? And I've made a living off of doing that. I'm always just talking about what I want to do, what I'm passionate about. I don't lie about anything. But I do have certain convictions on that if I do this, this is going to happen. And so instead of me getting stuck or the advice to somebody else is instead of getting stuck because you haven't done something, or it's just like, just make a prediction instead of saying something's true when it's not. Make a prediction and be. That's what innovation really is. Like, Steve Jobs just did a bunch of things that had never been done before. And so I think that's like, what you're talking about, just being vulnerable, talking about what you're going through.

Just being passionate about something, looking into the future, predicting something, saying what you're gonna do. Those are all valid choices for content. And in fact, it's probably gonna be a little bit more interesting than if you're just always looking to the past and saying, what did I do last week? Okay, I installed a new light. Let me. Let me talk about the new light I installed. As opposed to being like, hey, I was in a funk. I got. This is how I got out of it. This is what I see as the future. Let me talk about that. Those are. I think those are almost more interesting than just all this how to information that people are always trying to go into the past and try to talk about. Yeah.

And I think. I think what we all do initially with content is we think, well, I've got all these skills. I've got all this experience, so if I just share that experience, people will want to work with me. And what I've discovered is the opposite is true, is that whether it's a question of overwhelm or disinterest or just the majority of contributors to these platforms just going, hey, look at me. And I think it's back to that selfish content. It's like, you actually don't need to have. I've discovered that many themes or pillars of content. You can have three or four pillars of content that you talk about again and again. And one of our colleagues in the Mastermind we were at, Aaron was talking about. He basically has one theme that he talks about every single day. He just takes a different angle. And I guess my question to you is, do you have pillars that you use for content and certain topics that you just revisit with different flavors?

Yeah, essentially. I mean, I talk about how to make good content and how to scale it. That's like. And. And I say that. I think that's an important point because, like, I think a lot of times people go out and they're like, they're gonna build their brand, their personal brand, and it's just, like, really generic. They're Talking about everything that they know. And like, I don't think that works really well unless you're like Alex Hermosi or Gary Vee where you've built like a hundred million dollar company and like anything you say is basically like, oh my God, like he said that because like, even though I've sold a company, like it wasn't a hundred million dollar company, so people might trust me a little bit more because I've sold the company. I have business experience, it's not like I'm not in a league of my own. So the way you're going to cut through the noise is by talking about the same things over and over again and then using that as a way to be like to push your own boundary in that topic. Right. So if I just keep talking about good content, then I have to keep investing in making good content.

If I keep talking about how to scale it, I have to keep going deeper on how to do that in a more, more and more nuanced way. I have to come up with a new diagram, a new framework to push my own boundary. So having that those limited pillars not only will make your content better, but it will literally force you to push through. Like push through, right? So like I always just encourage people, don't look at the content is just a way to get more business. It's a way to develop new products and to push your own boundaries. And if you look at it more holistically, it's going to be way more interesting and valuable to you than if you, if you're like, how do I get a client? Because then you're going to do it for all the wrong reasons. All the content's going to have, it's going to have the wrong intention behind it and therefore people will sense it and it won't work.

And that is so interesting that, that, that idea of intention. So I've noticed in email marketing, for example, when I put together pre written campaigns that go out on a kind of, on a basis of a particular campaign.

They don't get the same kind of engagement and response than if I do a broadcast post that's like today. And I've never been able to quite understand this because there should be no difference because it's delivered in the same way. But I actually truly believe that it's the energy behind it and the intention that carries some kind of invisible force out to the market. I think the same is true with content. When you produce content that is fresh and raw and of the moment, I often find that has a very strong response because of the energy behind it.

I agree. And I think it's, I think people are also just developing a sensitivity to the tactics that have been used for the last 10 years. And you can just kind of smell it, I think. Yeah. Even if it's, you're not totally aware of it and people can. People are just getting good at sensing that through the, the ones and the zeros that come through the Internet.

Well, we're out of time today, but I'd love to get you back on to talk more about the practicalities of how to distribute content, because what we're talking about here is picking up your phone, making a post, and putting it on a platform. But to do this at scale, you need more structure, you need a system. So I'd love to get you back to talk about that. Maybe next week.

Let's do it.

You've been listening to the Video Business Accelerator podcast with your host, Den Lenn. If you are a video business owner who is tired of going it alone and would benefit from mentorship, support and weekly accountability, then mouse over to www.videobusinessaccelerator.com to learn more about how the Accelerator program can help you today. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show over on itunes, and we'd really appreciate you taking a few minutes to leave a review.

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