Turning Your Passion and Purpose…Into Profit! EP #356

Well, hello, Alana Thompson.

Hello, Dan. Lenny.

I wanted to start, really by just, I guess, asking the question, you know, how did you find yourself being a dp? Like, what was. What was the story there? How did you kind of find yourself doing that, that role of work? Because it's not that common for women to be working as DPs, which I know is something that we'll get onto.

Yeah, no, it's not. It was a very roundabout way that I actually got into this. So, I mean, from a young age, I've always been a dancer. I started doing ballet when I was 5 years old, partly because of my ADHD. I was just uncontrollable and had so much energy and hyperactivity that my parents were like, we need to channel it into something so she's not just running around in circles. And so they enrolled me in ballet. So I did that from 5 years old all the way through till I think I stopped dancing when I started doing film. Really? So, yeah, late 20s, early 30s even, was when I stopped dancing. So I did ballet all through growing up. So it was always a point of, like, being on stage, performing, connecting with an audience, telling a story. So storytelling has always been a part of my life. It was just telling the story with my body back then, and it's essentially the exact same thing now. I've just got a camera on my shoulder. And it feels like that when I'm filming and when I'm working with people, it's like I'm dancing with my subject and moving around them, anticipating their moves. Particularly when it's more kind of reality TV or documentary style, there's that real kind of interchange of energy and movement between you and the subject. So it's really kind of just been an evolution of that. And I actually started my degree at uni as a dance degree. So I was studying contemporary dance and sub minoring in photography, which I absolutely loved. And every time I'd present my photographs, I'd lay them all out for the class. I'd dim the lights, I'd put music on and, like, make this kind of immersive experience for everyone. My teachers were like, you know, maybe you should try doing film because your work's really cinematic and you're trying to add music and lighting and all these things. Why don't you just try doing film? And I did, and absolutely loved it. Switched it over to my major and then graduated with a Bachelor of Film and tv.

Now, that's a great story. And so many things make a lot of sense what was your first haid job? That major paid job out of film school. How did, how did you go from like being a graduate to getting that first job?

It was very much a case of right place, right time. I was volunteering for Sea shepherd at the time. So if you're not familiar with them, they're a eco organization that go down to Antarctica and they get into massive high seas clashes with the Japanese whaling fleet and they get in the way and disrupt whaling. And so I was working on their stalls at the time, selling merchandise because I loved what they were all about and I wanted to support them. And through that I got to meet some of the crew members and got to hear when there was a call out for camera operators on one of their campaigns. And that was for season seven of Whale wars, which went out through Animal Planet. So they put me in contact with the producer over in the US and I had a little Skype session with her and cut together a showreel of all the things I had like made in uni and things that I'd made like just on the side up until then and just went in with out of confidence and got the job. Totally shocked. I couldn't believe it. Maybe there was no one else silly enough to go down to Antarctica under such crazy conditions. It was literally a case of packing up all my belongings, putting them into storage, and going down on a little tiny metal box in the middle of nowhere in the ocean for three months time. There was no contact with the outside world. You were allowed to send like very few emails that were security censored to your family, but essentially you had no contact with anyone. So it's a pretty big commitment to kind of pack up your whole life and just ship off down there. No insurance, nothing like that. The producer on the season before me shattered her pelvis in one of the small boats when they were doing one of the actions. People regularly hurt themselves. So yeah, it was a pretty risky job to do, but incredibly exciting for a first job. And, you know, came with a lot of clout being able to say that I filmed for Animal Planet. So yeah, it's the experience of a lifetime and I do have a scar myself from it. You probably can't see it, but I did manage to crack it.

Sounds like one of those projects that people go, oh my God. Like when I first heard, I was like, oh my God, that sounds amazing. We subsequently spoken privately about some of the experiences and, you know, don't feel you have to go into any of them today, but think this, this Leans nicely into what people perceive on the outside. Like running a business, Right, versus what's going on in the inside are two very different things. Are there any anecdotes or examples from that time? Like what? What? I guess you were pretty excited getting that gig, and it was something you were passionate about, and it was very aligned, but the reality was very different. I think when you got down there, it was pretty. It was pretty tough. Which is kind of like the analogy of running a business, right? It's a lot harder than it looks. What were some of the things that happened that you had to kind of dig in and find some resilience for that? Perhaps it was. The reality was a lot less velocity than you perhaps had maybe dreamt of. It's one thing to sell items that are stolen. Support a sea shepherd and put a T shirt on. The next thing is you're on a boat being rammed by whaling ships. Tell me about some of those experiences and how did that kind of help.

You.

Become the person you are today?

Look, I'd say the whole thing is like that. The entire experience, from the moment I stepped foot on the ship to the moment I stepped off again.

You know, it's like when people hear about wildlife camera operators and they're like, it must be so exciting to be out there filming bears. And the reality is, is that they're, you know, freezing cold, getting bitten by insects, hiding in a box for weeks on end to get that one shot. You know, there's nothing glamorous about it. But, yeah, certainly the first moment that I stepped on the ship and put my bags down, I thought to myself, have I just made a really big mistake? What am I doing? And I got really scared and I called my parents and I was like, oh, I don't know about this. And they're like, no, like, you can do it. Just, you know, go for it. I think the thing that gave me a lot of nerves about it was also, like, I was so green, like, as far as filming goes. I remember calling up my lecturer, who is this incredible woman, Liz Bollock, and just saying, can you please just give me some training on how to, like, change white balance on the fly and focus on the fly and, like, exposure on the fly and, like, you know, I'd never done run and gun before, so I was just going in. So cold and so green. But what a way to learn. Oh, my gosh. Like, literally filming every day for almost 24 hours a day. There were some nights where we would go to bed with an earpiece in with the camera next to the bed in case something happened, so they could radio us, and you just wake up, grab your camera, and off you run. So it was the best way to learn. It's. You would never get to learn under any situation like that. But there were definitely some moments that were very challenging. So, as I said before, essentially, you're in a little floating metal box two weeks away from land at the bottom of the earth, around nobody. You're completely isolated, but you're floating in that box with 40 other housemates that you can't get away from. You are on board with a lot of complex personalities. And one thing that I really observed is that when you're living in that kind of social microcosm, it really seems like everybody reverted straight back to their high school personalities. And so you could see the people that were bullying, the people that were gossiping, and the people that were being bullied. It was me, exactly what high school was like for me. And you could just see everyone reverting back to that kind of high school personality and all of those roles playing out, which was a bit triggering, you know, as someone who was bullied in high school. And so I would. There was one place on the ship where I could go to cry and be alone and just let all the emotions out, and I would just go there. And it was, yeah, the only time I could get away from someone. The only time I could get away from everyone. I was living in a cabin with five other camera ops. So the whole film crew was in the one cabin, and we were literally just embeds on top of each other. So the most privacy I had was a little sarong that I strung up around my bunk. And I was the only woman on the crew as well, except for the producer who brought his partner along. So, yeah, it was very, very challenging.

I think that really leans nicely into.

The fact that being the only woman on the crew, that was the beginning, I guess, of. Of your career as a dp, Right? You know, there was my career of.

Being the only woman on the crew, yeah.

And it's fascinating. I heard you on another podcast talking about this and how he's absolutely gobsmacked that. I think you said it was, like, only 4% of camera crew worldwide are female or diverse in.

Yeah, that's. Now.

It seems crazy, but, I mean, I guess that would have given you some really good.

Grounding in resilience and skills around processing. The fact that you're the only woman on the crew, but you're still in a very.

Physical.

Career, but one that I know we've spoken about, has such a benefit when this female crew talk to me a bit about that journey of, you know, coming back from there, what happened next? How did you then navigate your career? Because I would imagine something like Whale Wars. It's a good thing to have on your cv, regardless of how painful it is. It kind of elevates your position in being hired because, like, well, you've done a major TV show.

It's a hook, right? It's a hook. Everyone wants to hear the story, so you lead with that. Except now it was 10 years ago, so it's kind of getting a bit hard to lead with that now. But, you know, it is. It's a great story and I used it to its full advantage. But, yeah, that was my first experience of being on a crew.

And, yeah, it was the only female camera operator. And the other guys I work with are lovely, they're amazing. But I did get physically assaulted by the first mate of the ship. And it didn't happen to any of the guys, it only happened to me. I was filming on the bridge and I was very respectful. I'd asked him, is it okay if I stand in this position and film the waves as they're approaching? And he was like, yep, no worries. And so I jumped into position and started filming. And then out of nowhere, he just grabbed me by the skin around my ribs and pushed me, like, kind of threw me to the back of the bridge. And I was just shocked. I started shaking straight away and I just didn't understand why it happened. It was just so aggressive and out of nowhere. And I reported it, of course, but you're two weeks from land, so nothing can really be done. They spoke to him and all they did was they put me on a different shift with a different person, and that was that. And that was the first kind of introduction of, like, oh, okay. Like, that stuff can just happen and it's okay. It was really weird.

So that was my first experience. And then I came back to Melbourne and thought, all right, I'm going to get into the crewing scene. I'm going to work my way up. And I sent, I reckon, about 200 emails to production companies, producers, showrunners, you name it. Just introducing myself, saying, I'll come and work for free so you can see what I'm about, and I would love to work with you. Got a couple of people that answered back. One put me on for a trial and then I got a job as a PA and it was just like a short running TV series. I think I had like a 2:30am call time every Monday. It was quite painful, but it was good. A good introduction to like this is the film industry, you know, you gotta really push yourself or else you won't survive. So it was a great job, only female PA on that set and I worked my butt off, was doing all the heavy lifting, running around, just working nonstop. But the show was about football and a lot of the male PAs were kind of growing out with the male producers and they were all getting along really well. And then by the end of it they all got offers and I didn't. Even though I'd worked really hard and had done my best, I hadn't clicked with them in the same way. So I didn't get hired on the next production, hadn't done anything wrong, just worked hard and I kind of just realized, oh yeah, there's something going on in this industry. It's getting the sense that it's going to be really hard for me to get in and I'm not seeing a lot of women then. I wasn't seeing any women doing what I wanted to do. So I thought, you know what, I'm just going to have to do it on my own. So I just went out, invested in the camera gear, like got better camera gear than what I had and just started offering myself to businesses to make cheap videos for them and started building my folio and just slowly did that one job after another, started reaching out to production companies, started getting entry level jobs, freelancing, assisting, building my portfolio, building my skills, building my gear. Fast forward 10 years time and I'm doing the same thing. But I met you and essentially that was my journey through the industry.

It would be easy to give up for anybody under those circumstances. What do you think it is about? Is there anything from your childhood you can pinpoint? And you go, that's when I learned resilience because I was also bullied at school.

And for me being bullied at school made me very resilient. I had a lot of emotion around it. I was very sensitive and I guess I was being bullied for being sensitive. But I don't think I'd be where I am today had I not had that experience. And I think in actual fact I had very entrepreneurial tendencies that nobody at school knew how to handle. What is it in your childhood or background that you can pinpoint as to being a pivotal point in helping you become the person you are today?

I mean, I guess as you say, probably being Bullied has something to do with it. I remember there was this one boy that would literally just come up and sucker punch me right in the gut on the bus every single day. And I remember I'd be doubled over crying and not being able to breathe and panicking and he would just do it every single day to me for no reason. Probably because I was neurodiverse and a bit weird was I was just a bit different.

Because I had, you know, full on adhd. So I think that's all that it was. I just stood out and so he picked on me. And so I suppose going through that and feeling very much like you're the outsider and a bit different, I think that probably builds character, I suppose. Thank God it's a little bit more accepted these days. I think the other thing is probably ballet, to be honest.

You know, it's funny because you see ballet dancers as these beautiful, you know, graceful things, but they're incredibly tough. Ballet dancers are some of the most toughest people you'll ever meet on earth. The pain that you go through to be a ballet dancer is enormous. I remember I had to soak my feet in methylated spirits every night just to toughen up the skin so that it wouldn't bleed as much because you're on pointe shoes and it's just absolute torture. So painful. And you're dancing through this intense stabbing pain in your toes all whilst trying to look beautiful and elegant and have a smile on your face. It's. It's quite masochistic. But I think that that really taught me resilience and the power of like working through the hard times and staying focused on a goal. That discipline has definitely held me through my whole career for sure.

Yeah, it's a great story and I love that resilience aspect because that's really what's needed in business. Right. I mean, we've known each other maybe three years now. And.

Let me take us back to where were you in your business when we first met and what was going on for you and what were you looking for?

Yeah, so I was freelancing and doing, you know, fairly well out of it, keeping myself afloat, but always having those moments where I was like, oh, maybe I should just get a full time job, an in house job somewhere.

Even though anyone that knows me would know that I wouldn't last two seconds because I'm just made to be a business owner. That's. I'm meant to be my own boss and do that. It's just in my nature. So I'M glad I didn't. And then I stuck with it. But I just knew that I needed help. I knew that I wasn't doing the business side right. I'd spent a lot of time focusing on the craft and getting the right gear and learning how to use that gear properly and spending all this time just trying to get better at every aspect of audio and lighting and editing and, you know, camera operation and producing and all of the things that come together to kind of form the running of a production company. But I never spent time thinking about the actual business and how to run the business and market the business and grow the business. And so I was really in that, as we call it, hamster wheel phase, where I was just running, running, running. Maybe I'll work on the website. Maybe I'll do this. Maybe I'll make a post on Instagram. I remember when I first spoke to you, and you're like, so where are you posting? Where are you sharing your work? And I said, instagram. And you were like, great, so all your peers know what you're doing, but you're not in any way reaching your clients. And I was like, oh, yeah, good point. Because I think I'd posted on LinkedIn once my entire life. So, yeah, I was really in that stage. I think it was post, just post pandemic. So I had two really young babies as well, and I was like, you know, it's like now or never. Really. Like, I've got to make this work in order to be able to keep, you know, doing it as a mum of young kids. And I came across you, and I was like, this guy seems interesting. What's he all about? And one of the. One of my students, because I got a job lecturing at university during the pandemic, and one of my students actually works, one of your elite members. And I reached out to her and I'm like, who's this Den Lenny guy? Is he the real deal? Is he legit? And she was like, yeah, he's legit. You should definitely talk to him. And then I had my sales call with you, and you were just so, yeah, holistic about it. And I could see that you were the sort of person that would really.

Value all parts of life, not just the growth at all costs. You know, I could tell that you were really focused on. But are you growing your spirituality and are you seeing your friends and are you being, you know, living a healthy, happy life while you're also growing this business? And that really appealed to me, especially with where I'm at, you know, where I was at at that point in time with kids.

It's funny, isn't it? Because.

It'S not the sexy end of town when it comes to business coaching. You know, all of those things, because it takes a certain maturity in yourself to recognize those things are important. Um, and it's funny. I've just been recording some new marketing material, and it's. It's like I. I want to lean on that holistic approach because it's so important. But. But we are. We have to. It's kind of a weird sort of dichotomy, because what people want is they. They. They come saying, I want help with getting more leads from my video business. If I go too far down the. Well, let's start looking at this holistically. They go up. I just need leads. So it's one of those things. Almost like the holistic approach is exactly what we do, but it's not really what we sell. Because I don't think anyone would come, because everyone. Everyone comes for the leads, and then they realize.

And that's what. That's what made me skeptical. And I was like, you know, there's not many women in the program and, you know, like. And I needed to hear that you could, you know, work with a mother and. And someone that looked a bit different to a majority of the people that worked with you.

Yeah.

And obviously. Amazing.

Well, I think we're actually at 10% of the VBA are now women.

Yes.

Which. Which is still pretty shonky.

Yeah.

But at least it's two and a half times more than on camera cruise. So I feel like maybe. Maybe we're making some inroads.

Yes.

That's why I wanted to do this interview with you, because I think that a lot of women. Yeah. I've been married for I don't know how many years, but with Sam for 19 years. So I've seen her go through motherhood and. And come out of a relationship well before we met, obviously. And then. And then. And then into our relationship. And I think as women, you carry around so much responsibility and guilt about not being enough for anyone who's in your life. And so I think when it comes to running a business, you have to. You have to understand that women are juggling a lot of plates. But I think in many ways do it a lot better than the men. Because the one thing I've always admired about you, Alana, is that you just. You just take the information and you run with it and you implement it and you ask Questions. And that's really, I think the secret to if you're going to, if you're going to invest in coaching, kind of makes sense to listen to coach. Right. And I think you do that very well. But also you've, you've come such a long way that you're now a mentor. And I hope that, you know, women who are watching this, who perhaps are juggling small children, feel you don't have time, can be inspired by you because, you know, you still have two young children, you're, you're a single parent, you're juggling a lot of different things. What are some of the things that you can look back on as actions you've taken despite all of those things? Because I think there is, there is, there is definitely a. And I think this is societal conditioning where women feel like they can't step out and do this because they've got to be at home with the kids and you've found a different way. And I just would love to hear more about that because I think that's really impactful.

Yeah, I mean, look, there's always going to be mum guilt. I feel like there's mum guilt. No matter what you're doing, you know, it's always going to be there. And for me, I feel like I'm, I've got a three and a four year old boy, both boys, and I feel like I'm showing them what a woman in leadership looks like and I think that is great for them to see that and to see their mother being a provider as I'm now a single mum. And I also feel that I'm a better mum when I'm out there doing my own thing as well and running my business and having my creative outlet, it means when I can come back with them, I'm a better mom because I'm also fulfilling these other parts of myself. So I learned to come to terms with that guilt early on and I'm glad that I have because now I have a vehicle to build a future for them. And as you know, my goal currently is to get them into a house within three to five years. And to be able to do that on my own through a creative business is pretty incredible. It's not lost on me how amazing that is. And I'm so proud of myself for getting to that stage and so thankful to you for helping me to do that. So much so that I've forgotten what your question was.

More just that I think that that mum guilt is. You're right. It's like my Wife has mum guilt and she was there for the kids, but she went to work because she was a single mom and she went to work.

I think the mum guilt's always there. But I think you raise a good point which is you just, you just do it anyway because the immediate guilt is offset by the fact that you are, you are, you are single handedly creating a new generation of men. And I think that is very powerful.

Well, I'm trying. It's a constant battle against society. They come home with some things from daycare and you're just like.

But yeah, definitely trying to raise good men. And I think having, you know, a strong working mum is probably going to help with that, you know. But yeah, I mean.

Life throws a lot of crazy shit at you and you've just got to, I think you've just got to keep your eyes on the big picture really. You know, I've, through all of this, I've had two babies back to, back through the pandemic and then started the business coaching with you all, all the while whilst going through a relationship breakdown and dealing with, you know, perimenopause and all these other things going on. And the whole time working through all this and trying to be a mum and trying to be a business owner and keep the business afloat. You know, it's a lot to handle, but it is, I think if you can really, you gotta look after yourself. That's the number one thing. But I think if you can really hold onto your big picture of what you want and why you're doing it, and for me, it's for my boys and to build a future for them, then I think you can get through anything if you just hold on to that image and that goal.

I'm curious, you know.

This is going to seem like a weird question because I know the answer and we've spoken about this many times, but I think for those listening to this, perhaps haven't heard us speak about it, which is probably mostly everyone.

You know what was going on because I'm fascinated by this, that we work with so many different people and there are those that just absolutely fly, like yourself, who double your business year on year and just go higher and higher and higher. And then there's those who've got the exact access to exact same content, exact same resources, exact same support, who don't. What do you think it was about you? Why did you go seeking coach?

What were you looking for that you couldn't. You know, I think one of the things we've often spoken about the mentors is there's a degree of delusion we have as filmmakers where we kind of. We have to have this sort of element of delusion to get through it.

I think that's prerequisite for the position.

Yeah, but there are so many people who are literally struggling to make even five figures a year.

And they will not come near us. They just think we're a scam. They think we're just bullshitters. Is like, why would you, why would you invest money in coaching? And like, I'm a sensitive guy. Right. So I find it quite harmful because it's like we really, we really give a, we really care. And I think a lot of coaching has blurred the landscapes. There's a lot of BS out there.

A lot of scams out there at the moment. Yeah, everyone is very cautious of everything these days.

Yeah, rightly, rightly so. But what was it that, that you were looking for and what was your process of trying to find someone to help?

So for me, with anything that I do, any decision that I make, I go into like a deep dive on the research. Like I'm on the websites and I will go through every single review and read what everyone has had to say. And so I do, I tend to be quite thorough, even just before buying a toaster, let alone signing up with a business coach. So I essentially did that with you. And for me, I think the biggest thing is firsthand experiences. I love hearing firsthand from people that have worked with you. So hearing from Matt and I think I might have spoken to someone else, those were the things that really made me take the leap. And I just got a good feeling about you in general. But yeah, I just was really in a place where I knew I needed guidance. I needed someone to hold my hand and just tell me it's going to be okay. You can do this because it's so lonely and you're doing it on your own and you have your peers that are also doing it. But I do find that in this industry, and when I say in this industry, I mean amongst freelancers, particularly those that are trying to scale into a video production company, there's a lot of negativity I think we all get caught up on, like, oh, things are shit and this client's just being shit and like I'm having a really hard time and there can tend to be this kind of self perpetuating negativity that happens. And so the biggest thing for me was moving from that space that I had with, with some of my peers into a Much more positive space of people that instead of complaining, they're doing. And so I think that was the difference. Instead of complaining about things and going, oh, things are so quiet, there's no money coming in. What am I going to do? It's, well, things are so quiet, I'm going to get on, I'm going to do more marketing, I'm going to reach out to people, I'm going to ask clients for coffees. It's basically going from complaining to taking action. And that is the biggest shift, I think.

Someone just a couple of weeks ago said on a call who just joined the program, he said, oh, you know, I've been doing this for like five of the last seven years. And he said, it's like I've been driving this car on my own, trying to figure out where, where I'm going to go. And there's lots of junctions and I just kind of potluck take a turn. And he said, now I feel like I've got multiple people in the driving seat who have driven this road before, who know the route and can give me advice on which is the best route, depending on what's going on. And I think my constant. I wake up every day going, how can I convince. Help someone lower a piece of friction towards leaning into this process? Because.

I've seen such success with you and so many people who we work with, and I find that the trusting is the hardest thing to overcome is this skepticism that, you know, somehow the case studies are bullshit like that. We've made them up.

Sorry.

No, go on.

I was just gonna say people are very risk adverse and I think you have to take risks to succeed. I do think risk is an important part of growing a business, but it's really scary. And I think the problem probably lies in the fact that our brands are essentially just us. We're so intimately linked to our brands when we're freelancers.

Yeah.

So I think that's why there's a real resistance. And I felt that resistance to you when you do things. And I'm like, oh, I don't really want to do that. You know, you'd be like, you need to niche. And I was like, still haven't. But I'm thinking about it.

Yeah, you know, if you don't want to, you know, you don't, you don't have to do anything. I'm sure of all the people I know, you will be the least likely to do something I tell you to do if you don't want to do it.

But there is Resistance. And it's funny. And I think it's just because we're so used to doing things a certain way, it's uncomfortable. It's because we're so intimately linked to our brand as well. But whenever anyone joins, I do say, just trust the process, do the work. And if you do those two things, then it works. Doing the work with the biggest one actually getting out.

Yeah.

Implementing everything and following through and being consistent. But I do say to them, just listen to Dan and do what he says. He knows what he's talking about and he's there to help you. So just. Just listen. You know, it's.

Yeah.

You're paying him for.

I mean, thank you. Because it is. It is. It is tough. You know, there are days when I think I just don't know if I've got the stomach for this anymore, you know, because I. Yeah. I put so much into it. And, like, can I just go and get that job with the council cutting the grass? You know.

Which is something you've spoken about before.

Yeah.

So what are. What are some practical tips? So, I mean, let's.

You.

You have a particularly strong desire to support.

Underrepresented communities. You know, why did you decide you want to become a video mentor?

Because you have quite a lot on your plate.

I do, I do. But there are certain things that I do because they make me happy and they make me feel good, and one of those is running my podcast. Although, mind you, I haven't put out an episode in quite a while because things have been crazy. But there is one in the works. But on that podcast, I talk with people from underrepresented groups that are really moving change in the industry and trying to shake things up. And I just love talking to trailblazers and people that are, like, driven and doing things differently. Going against the grain like that just really excites me. And so alongside doing that, I also go for coffee with people who are new to the industry or just basically anyone in the industry that is underrepresented or different. And I just love, like, networking with them, hearing their stories, hearing about their challenges, and, you know, there's a lot of those, and just finding, you know, solidarity together, talking about our experiences, but then also finding ways that we can then open the industry up and make it more diverse and more beautiful. And, yeah, that's a real passion of mine because there was never anyone for me to look to that looked like me doing what I want to do. You know, the saying, if you can't see it, you can't be it. And it's definitely true. I really wanted, especially when I was looking for you, I was like, I just want to see a woman who has young kids who's running a production company on her own and is killing it and it's just doing a really good job. I just need to see it. I just need to. I think I said it once in the group when I was just new and just starting and just having a really hard time. And I was like, I just need to know that it's possible. I just need to see someone that's doing it on their own to know that it's possible. But I didn't get that. So I just really want to be.

That you're leading the way. If there's not someone there.

Yeah, I want them to know that it is possible and you can do it. It's going to be damn hard, but you can do it. You can do it. You're just going to have to be really disciplined. You're going to have to figure out what your why is, figure out your big picture and just really stay true to it and then get creative. You're going to have to work babysitting costs into your, your, your line, items and things, you know, well, the client that. I sure shouldn't be saying this on a podcast, but, you know, there's creative ways to get around your production fee.

You know this. The fact is you can't provide the service if the kids aren't being looked after. That's just like we do with our pets. So we can't do what we do if the pets are needing help or we need to run an event. The pets need to go into daycare.

You know, and if you want to work as a mum, yes. Some workplaces aren't mum friendly. So create a workplace that is mum friendly. Connect with other mums. You know, shoots where you're working with mums. Clients that are mums, marketing managers that are mums. You know, I, you know, hired one of my friends who's got a young baby and we just scheduled, you know, breastfeeding breaks in. You know, one of my clients, David, hired me for Fashion Week when I was breastfeeding and he got his producer, Martine, who, you know, to ferry my milk back and forth between the fridge and me pumping in between shows and in between shoots. And he's also hired me when I was heavily pregnant.

And how amazing is that? You know, it should be so normal. It should be so normal.

Well, it's not because, like, I mean, and I'M talking about David Finnegan. I'll give him a shout out because he's Incredible. He runs Sense6. He's been an incredible mentor for me and he's always hired me, no question. No matter how heavily pregnant or breastfeeding or whatever I was, he's always hired me. Whereas I remember one client when I was breastfeeding calling me up for the job and I said, no worries, I'm all good to go. I just need to take a break every four to five hours to just quickly pump for 20 minutes, but I'm good to go. And he got back to me and said, oh, don't worry, we're going to go with a man, it's going to be easier. And that by the fact that if.

You work for four or five hours, you probably should have a four or 20 minute break anyway. And you know what, if people were smoking, they'd be off for smoking breaks every, every, every couple of hours for five minutes.

Exactly. And that's what drives me is those kind of things where I'm, I'm up against, you know, there's that friction and I'm up against something or you know, recently when I was on a shoot, running the whole shoot and we were interviewing someone out in the field, a farmer, and the farmer couldn't think of what to say next and he said, oh, just, I can't think straight, I can't get my words straight. And the client looked at me and looked at him and said, oh, so you're just like a woman. Not much going on up here, huh?

And so it's moments like when those things are said to me and when I'm, you know, not given a job because I'm breastfeeding because a man will be easier. You know, it's those things that make me want to rally together with the other women and the other mothers and help them. And so most of my crews are mothers, funnily enough, they're usually mothers of two. I love hiring women, gender diverse people, people from diverse backgrounds and abilities and I just think it makes for beautiful crews and I just want to bring all the underdogs together and, and for all the times that we've had shitty experiences like that, we can make beautiful, supportive, safe sets where those things don't happen and we can all. Just.

Sounds to me like there's a niche lurking in there somewhere.

I call it a usp.

A usp? Yeah, same, same. But you know, didn't you do a big project recently for. Was that was the Melbourne Open, the Australian Open or something. There was a project you did where it was an all Air Canada, all female crew. And tell me about that because that was really fascinating, the feedback you got.

Yeah. So Air Canada reached out and they were like, you know, we're doing this project, it's called Fan Flights, and it's where they sponsor young fans and fly them out to a game and they get to meet their hero, whatever type of sports game it would be. And yeah, they had the. The Women's World cup here in Australia. And so they wanted to fly two young Canadian women out to meet the Canadian women's soccer football team.

I think you call it soccer in these parts.

Yeah.

Anyway, yeah, let's go with soccer. Be easier.

Yeah. And so they wanted a camera crew to record the whole thing, like run and gun, reality TV style, while they had them meet up with the Canadian women's team. And we had to also go along to a game with them and film all that and film the leading up to it, you know, all the interviews when they landed on the ground and they were like, we want an all woman crew. So we want two female camera operators, a female producer, female assistant, and a female soundy. Do you think in any way it's possible? And I was like, yeah, no worries, that's fine. And they're like, really? Even the camera operators? And I was like, yeah, it's fine, it's no problem. And they were a little bit kind of shocked and taken aback by it, but it was an incredible experience. And the feedback we got from that job and the feedback that we get from a lot of jobs from people who are used to being on set and in front of cameras and things like that, they do say that it feels a lot more nurturing and supportive. Maybe that's because a lot of the crews that I created were all mothers. Maybe we've just got that mothering energy, making sure everyone's hydrated, warm and taken care of. I don't know. But it is a different energy. There's a lot more listening as well, is the feedback that we get from clients. There's less ego, more listening, more collaboration. These are generalizations, but look, this is just the feedback that the clients give us. So I'm going to go with that. It's great.

I do think there's just a huge opportunity to really sing from the rooftops about that because I think just not enough people know you even exist as a company that can do that. Yeah, that's always our business, you know, that's always our goal. Right? I mean, it's the same for me. I mean, been in this industry nearly 30 years, but there's still thousands of people who don't know I exist. And what we do here, the video mentors, which is why we're doing these podcasts, right? And for anyone who's listening or watching, you know, we have a free community that you can get support and training and coaching for completely free, with nothing. There's nothing to. There's no kind of like big sales pitch. The truth is, many people, when they go into that free community, decide they want extra help and there's. There's pathways to that. So if you are sitting watching, listening to this, you know, go to the videomentors.com it'll be obvious where you can click and join the free community. But as we wrap this up, Alana.

What are some things that you wish you'd done sooner or you would say to someone who's perhaps in the position you were in three years ago, who's procrastinating or, you know, worried about cost of investing in themselves? I often think that the. The cost of investment is. It's twofold. One is the actual cost, but we buy camera gear without thinking twice about it. I think the second part is more the fear of investing in yourself and then not doing the work and then wasting the money. And amongst that, there's probably a question somewhere. But I guess really what I'm looking for is what are your kind of reflections looking back that you think, oh, I wish I had done that sooner, or I wish I'd done that differently, or what would you say to someone who's perhaps sitting where you were three years ago with kind of a hamster wheel of a business? I love that analogy.

It's the most accurate description. It's exactly how you feel. You're just putting out spot fires but never actually going anywhere or making any progress. What I wish I had have done sooner is join the group or just get help in general. I spent way too many years going in alone. And I wish I had got in and got that support and got that community earlier. And that's the thing that I hear people say the most about working with you is like, Dan's great, don't get me wrong, but the community is fantastic as well. It's the people that you get to meet. And I remember when I first started and because I'm quite competitive by nature, which is also, if you've got it works really well for you in business. Because I remember I was in the vba up level. And I remember seeing the elite and being like, oh, you know, I want to be one of those guys. I want to be up with those boys in a year. But I remember going for coffee with a whole lot of them and, you know, asking them questions and getting advice. And it did. It felt like I had these big brothers kind of helping me along and then also going for coffees with all the other people in Melbourne and the vba and we're all going through the same thing, you know, and it's like the group expands so far beyond just the platform where the coaching exists. It just got the thumbs up monitor.

High praise indeed.

But it does. It extends so much further beyond that. And it's really, I guess it's as much as you want to make it, but I'm a connect. I love connecting with people and, and you know, you see me whenever you mention a person, I'm straight out there, like, adding them and reaching out and. Yeah, so it was great to. To catch up with all those elite guys and to get that kind of. That goal of, like, I want to be them in a year. That's right. Yeah. And I in no way thought that would happen. And then it did.

I know. You're a rock star. You're absolutely. I mean, you know what, what I love about this whole process is that I've not just made a, you know, a client help a client get some success. We become friends. And it's like, it's such. Such a cliched thing to say, but we. We speak often on and off the platform, and I just really cherish having you in my life. And I think that's a beautiful benefit to doing some business that happens to help your business as well.

Thank you, Dan. And you've changed my life irreparably. So I guess we're stuck with each other now.

That's it.

It's not just that. When I am having a hard day and, you know, I've gotten emotional on some of the calls lately because there's been a lot of things going on, but I'll get off the call and I'll have a voice message from you asking if I'm okay. And then later on in the day, you know, Matt's called me and Tim's called me and they're all checking in on me. And it's just so beautiful to have this community, people that, like, really care about you and are just as invested in you and their business as they are in theirs. You know, it's really. It's pretty Special.

Well, I think, you know, my bigger mission is to change the way in which business coaching has done. I've been in a lot of different masterminds and I've been alone a lot of. A lot of egos and a lot of, you know, dick swinging around, you know, revenue and blah, blah, blah. And I just think that there's more balance to be had and it's an unpopular opinion. You know, none of. None of the people in this space that I know do it like this.

And that can be kind of weirdly lonely at times because I'm like, I'm not choosing the easy path of, hey, I do, you know, here's my plug and play system to make an extra 10k a month in 30 days. And someone asked me about that, an event once. Oh, you're not doing anything like this. I'm like, I just. I just can't because I. I'm not going to promise you something that I don't believe is true. Despite the fact that you are actually living proof that on a call one January went right. It's looking a bit lean. What should I be doing? And the first 20 people you reached out on LinkedIn, you made a bunch of money.

Well, that's the other thing you said. That was the second part of that question you said to me. It was something along the lines of, like, someone who's not wanting to invest money and they're scared. That was. I also wanted to touch on that because I remember being exactly the same. I took out a loan to get into the vba. I didn't have the money, but I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna go for it. Cause it just felt right. My gut was just saying, do it. And then, you know, that same resistance came up every time. I was like, I probably need project software, you know, project management software. And then again, like Sales Navigator. Oh, that's like 120amonth. And I remember thinking, oh, that's so much money. And it was so much money to me back then. It was a huge amount of money. And I was like, you know what? I'll just trial it and I'll just go hell for leather and do exactly what Den says, and I'll just see what happens. And I did. And I started reaching out to 10, 20 people a day, five days a week. I think I even did more. I hit the limit pretty quick. And within 10 days of doing that, I reached out to someone who was like, yeah, great, we actually need some editing work. Can you give us a quote you know, da, da, da. And I did, and we've been working together ever since. And I think they've probably spent about $40,000 with me by now. And so was that 120 big risk per month? Not really.

Well, this is it, isn't it?

All my growth has come from LinkedIn, from that process.

So it comes down to just, I think, trusting in yourself. I think when people don't trust us or the process, but actually things, they don't trust themselves. And the fact is, none of us know what tomorrow holds. None of us really know what we're doing. It sounds like a crazy thing to say as someone who runs a coaching business, but we've got processes, we've got systems, we've got playbooks, we've got methods we know have worked in the past. None of us know it's going to work tomorrow. But we have to put the effort in to create momentum. Because oftentimes in the journey of discovering what doesn't work, you find out what does. And if you hadn't started that journey and got the momentum, you wouldn't be where you are.

I think it's a fear of failure as well. I think people are so scared of like, what if something doesn't work? And I think one of the biggest learnings from being in the group is that failure is amazing because then you know it doesn't work and you can move on to finding the thing that does work. And like, we're always saying, get out there and like, test it. I will, like, test different sales scripts. And you've seen me go through this process a few weeks from, like, this one isn't quite landing. Can you guys give me some feedback and I'll adjust it a little bit and try again. One person literally sent me a response with a laughing emoji to one of them. Like, ouch, my heart.

I know, I know.

Okay, great. That one's not working. Let's keep going and try something else. And then through all that failure, you finally hit something that does work and it's like, okay, you gotta go through that pain to get the success and to get it working. So you can sit there and do nothing and go nowhere, or you can have a little bit of pain, rejection and a laughing emoji and then find something that does, you know. But that's the difference, I think, isn't it, is that you've actually got to be willing to fail and to stuff it up in order to find what works. Yeah.

And that. And that. That's hard for a Lot of people, particularly creatives, because we're, we feel so much. But you know what? Someone's sending a laughing emoji, they're having a terrible day and you've just triggered something in them and it never got to buy from you. But at the same time, you know, there's this Sammy, he's in the elite program and he's had many people reject him on LinkedIn only to come back six months later with a tail between the legs going, but you know what, you know, I am looking for some help now and, and I think you just have to develop a bit of a thick skin.

Yeah, it is. It's a numbers game. And you do.

Yeah.

I've had, I've had a few negative interactions doing the cold calling, but overall it's doubling revenue.

If you've got a big enough why, which is your kids and a house and security, then why, why not, you know, what's the worst that can happen?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, Anna, it's been really lovely to talk to you. Always is. But by the time we're sharing it on a podcast for others.

Guys who, Carol's listening, you know, just go to the video mentors, click on there, Join our free community. You can interact with us all. It is a free community. There's about 350 odd people in there now. Some great resources just lean in and, and, and reach out for some help because we're more than happy to help. It's, it's our way of giving back.

Come join the party.

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