Dennis Prager on God, Evil, and Charlie

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start Turning Point USA college chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA high school chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in 5th grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life, and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. The leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We are joined by Oscar Ramirez. He's a Real America's Voice border correspondent. And with everything that happened over the weekend with El Mencho, we wanted to have on-the-ground reporting. So Oscar, welcome to the show. Tell us, where are you, or if you can tell us roundabouts where you are, and where is where is some of the worst violence happening and is it still happening?

Well, after the assassination and the execution of Nemesio Oseguera, El Mencho, the violence started escalating in the parts, the tourist areas in the part of Puerto Vallarta and escalated to the parts that they have enormous control, that is Michoacán and the parts of Guerrero and also in Jalisco. But this perplexed and it just caused a domino effect and it started happening in the north borders in cities like Tijuana that we are located. What, you know, they started doing narco blockades. Burning cars, burning businesses to send a message to the government and to tell them that we have presence on these particular neighborhoods or tourist areas and that we are going to terrorize the citizens and to let them know that they are critically hurt because the head of the snake was completely eliminated at this particular moment. And they started doing this in the part of Tijuana, you know, burning cars, burning businesses. Until now, yesterday, we were reporting on the ground more than 22 incidents happen. What it means, incidents between vehicles and also businesses that were burned, sending a message strongly to the government of Mexico to tell them we have a lot of presence on these particular states in the whole country and the whole territory. Now, a thing that is extremely important, just today, breaking news, the head of the military and the head of Department of Defense in Mexico just made out a statement and in an interview said that this was a clear collaboration with the United States of America in regards to the United States providing the intelligence to do the execution by the federal government of Nemesio Oseguera, El Mencho. The violence right now, it is, it was increasing last night. And here in the city of Tijuana that is connected to San Diego, there was still burning of vehicles continuously in several areas. But until now, schools have been off limits. Now they closed the schools, they closed the educational systems of elementary, junior high schools, high schools. Colleges, businesses are closed for security reasons of the citizens. There has been multiple threats on social media groups by particularly pages that they are in cahoots with the organized crime, telling the population that they're going to start shooting civilians after 10:00 at night if they still walking. It is a huge national security threat. I did a video on a report on a vehicle that it was burned just steps away from the border. From the border wall. This tells you the level of audacity of the cartel. And they burned that vehicle in front of a post on the territory, in the American territory. This post that has a huge camera from the US Customs that basically tells you that they did it on purpose just to tell the American government, we know that you provided the information for our leader to be executed. So at this moment, the federal government has released statements that they will provide the security that it needs to be provided for tourists and also deployment of more military to the whole country, to the whole country of Mexico.

I have a bunch of questions here. As far as where the CJGN cartel, the Cartel Jalisco New Generation, how— where does it rank in terms of the most violent, most powerful cartels in Mexico?

That is the number one right now. Nemesio Seguera, El Mencho, was one of the most violent ones and atrocious ones. That clearly he sent a message to the population and to the world of decapitations, dismembering bodies. And he's the one that is basically pointing out to the multiple hundreds of thousands of mass graves that they have been found in our country of Mexico, missing people, extraction of organs, you know, and all these atrocious acts towards women in the country.

Oscar, I think that's really baffling me. So 25 members of the National Guard killed, obvious mayhem throughout the country. I'm reading the LA Times this morning. Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum insists country is at peace and remains calm after what's going on. What's her attitude towards all of this? It seems like she's— she strikes a very strange tone with her remarks. And I guess the follow-up is, what's next? Is this a spasm of violence or is this going to turn into a wider— I don't know what else to say besides war.

Well, the Mexican people that we have common sense, and there's millions of us, we know who perpetrated and who did this mission and who initiated this mission. And it was the American intelligence. If it wasn't for the Trump administration, this that just happened would have been done. And all of this that has happened happening in the country of Mexico, the dismantling laboratories, the extraction of criminal leaders and leaders of cartels being extracted to the United States of America, you know, the execution of Nemesio Seguera, El Mencho, all of this wouldn't be happening. Now, the Mexican president, she has an agenda, and it's a leftist socialist agenda, and she needs to pander to her audience to say, we are not letting the gringo, we're not letting the white man to come and invade and intervene in our country, but we are collaborating so-and-so, and quote unquote, we are collaborating with the American government for them to provide information and for us to execute. That is how she's maneuvering this. And of course, she's saying that this, uh, all this mission was executed by the federal government But now she's obligated to say that the American government are providing the, the information. This is history, guys. Nobody in history in the United States of America has had the more extraction of information that the Trump administration has right now. And why do I say that? They have El Chapo Guzmán, they have El Mayo Zambada, they have Nicolás Maduro, all the extraction of information of how Mexico works and how corrupt all these dirty politicians that they're located in the Senate and Congress in Mexico. So the Trump administration basically knows the ins and outs of the government, and they need to bend the knee. When the Trump administration says we're going in, is we're going in.

Yeah. So my question is, Oscar, is does this signal a change of policy in Mexico? Is this, is this a turning point, or is Claudia Sheinbaum doing this kicking and screaming and this is kind of going to be a one and done? What's your prediction?

Well, the Mexican people are going to demand more now. If they had the capacity to execute Nemesio Seguera, I'll mention why you're not going through several states. And controlling these states, that they're violently and critically controlled by the organized crime and the cartel. So basically what the pressure of the American government, it is doing right now to Mexico, is for the Mexican people to demand more from the Mexican government for them to execute this mission. If you were precise, and if you, you know, we lost some good ones, we lost some military men on this mission, but if you went over there and you executed the mission, why you're not doing that on every state? So it's going to have an effect on the senators, on the opposition, on the conservatives, on the Christians, on the Christian senators and Christian congressmen that they are in our country to demand more from the opposition.

Yeah. So, Oscar, that's my question, because the cartel is so interwoven with just basic businesses and the hotels and there's this— it's hard to draw a line between official government business and cartels, right? And will the people demand this? Will the, you know, is there popular support for more action against the cartels? And will— is there enough will within the official government structure of Mexico?

Absolutely, absolutely. And it is happening right now. And also what the Trump administration has done is that they have given the courage to senators on the opposition and on the right of Mexico to go and basically on Congress and on the Senate and expose the left-wing political party and say, you're corrupt, you're involved with the organized crime in the cartel. You know, one of the things that got viciously exposed is how this criminal organization had so much control over states and how they have the audacity to terrorize the citizens. And they're still doing it up until this point. So it's basically exposing the, you know, the weaknesses of our government. And the Mexican people know that right now at this moment.

So do you predict more violence in the days and weeks to come?

I will not recommend American citizens to travel right now to several spots and several tourist spots. Uh, you know, it is, it's kind of agitated. And let this sink in for the next couple of days over the federal government to have more control over really rural and difficult and, and tough neighborhoods. Uh, it, uh, I believe that it's going to escalate a little bit. Inner wars are going to happen. And let's see who takes charge of this criminal organization, that that is going to be the next step of how they're going to fight among each other for territory.

Oscar Ramirez, RAVS border correspondent in Mexico right now. Thank you so much, Oscar. Appreciate it. We'll have you back on as this story develops. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for the invitation, guys.

Absolutely. Blake, you had one final thought, and I thought it was really important.

I just want to close the book on the cartel thing. What was so insane is just the visual of literal cartel members. They're standing, they're wearing uniforms with their—

armored cars.

They have armored cars, armored vehicles, rocket launchers, heavy heavy machinery, heavy weaponry. And all I can think is this is a country that borders the United States, and we've had 30 years plus of lots of adventures in the Middle East where we're often chasing people armed up just like that. But they're on at least the other side of the planet. They can't send rocket launchers super easily to the United States. But you know who can? The cartels. And we see with them launching this for lack of a better term, this insurgency where they're taking over huge chunks of central Mexico in demonstration of their leader being killed, killing dozens of Mexican National Guard. It just— it actually strikes me as insane that we've had so many wars on the other side of the planet, and yet we haven't just said, okay, actually, we're going to drone strike anyone. Like, every armored vehicle that belongs to a cartel, blow it up. It's just going to get blown up, period.

We're trying to play nice with Mexico.

Wants to help us. That's great.

That's the—

but if they don't want to help us, we're going to do it anyway because it's not acceptable for there to be a totally great gangster actor in a neighboring country that has armored personnel carriers.

Totally agree. All right, well said. Needed to be said. So, and Charlie, by the way, totally agreed with that. He's like, if we're going to use military force, that's the one place we should—

yes.

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Young black kids growing up in the Bronx who don't even know what the word computer is.

They don't know.

They don't know these things.

3:46.

And the other thing we should do is we should challenge these students.

We should challenge students in these schools to have advanced placement programs in these schools.

We have this notion that somehow if you're poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.

And 2:50, the new one.

I'm not trying to impress you. I'm just trying to impress upon you I'm like you. I'm no better than you. I'm a 960 SAT guy. And I'm not trying to offend anyone, trying to act all there if you got 940. But literally a 960 SAT guy. I cannot— you've never seen me read a speech because I cannot read a speech.

All right. So Gavin Newsom is trying to buddy up to the Black community by saying, I'm dumb too. I can't read. This is okay. This man's going to run for president in 2028. And I want them to run this moment on repeat on the ad. This is the bigotry of low expectations. In living color. I've never seen such a clear example of that other than the two other clips that I played before.

I mean, there's so many more. I remember Hillary Clinton when she was running for president. She did an appearance in New York and then she showed up late. No, it's the one she showed up and she said she was on CPT. And then they said it was cautious politician time. But that's obviously— it's like, it's very wild. And all I can think of is this is a real study from 2019. Do you know about this? The Yale study? Yale did a study of how, like, the vocabulary that white liberals use. And what they found is, yeah, white liberals, when they're talking to black people, they will actually deliberately downshift their vocabulary. They will basically act like they're talking to children.

They'll get an accent.

And they noticed that white conservatives did not do this. They just did not change.

Nope. And we expect the same out of everybody. It is literally the most racist comment in the— and then you add on top of all of this that they don't think black people are smart enough to get ID. It is quite literally the most racist crap that you will ever hear coming out of the mouths of Democrats, and they're pandering to them to win their votes by telling them they're dumb. And yet most of them will still vote for Democrats. And that's the baffling part of all this. Here's Charlie reflecting on his time with Gavin Newsom. Remember, Charlie went on Gavin Newsom's podcast, was the first guest Made lots of news. 3:53.

He is— he is the fakest person I think I've ever met in my entire life. So, and honestly, that's very dangerous. Like, incredibly dangerous. Like, he's the type of person that could just, like, stare at you like, oh yeah, I voted for Trump, and just, like, pass a lie detector test. That, that is very, very dangerous. You know, just stone cold, just like, no, no inhibitions whatsoever when it comes to deceit or lying or misleading.

So Blake, you and I were with Charlie when he went to that podcast, when he went on Gavin Newsom's podcast, and I'll never forget, we were driving away and I go, what was your impression? He goes, man, that guy wants to be president.

Yep, he always has. It's really glaring and it's really disturbing because I've gotta say, as much as we make fun of him here, as much as we made fun of him another time—

Well, he deserves it.

And he deserves it. I don't think you can escape that feeling, It could happen. This is the dark future of America is 100% that Gavin Newsom could run, be slick enough, have the right look, say the right things, and everyone will just sort of get behind it. It's like he's the politician utterly without qualities. He hasn't been a great governor of his state by any objective measure. It's been a catastrophe. He has big headline disasters like burning down a big chunk of Los Angeles, and then he has the data-driven disasters. Businesses leave, people leave. His state is entirely dependent on endless immigration inflow to—

from foreign countries—

from foreign countries to not completely implode. And they're having, you know, they're driving out every billionaire because they have this wealth confiscation tax.

To be fair, Newsom says he's going to veto that.

But yeah, but they can't— well, that was— I think it's a vote amendment. I don't think he can block it if they—

he's promised to veto it.

We'll see what he does. But on top— and on top of that, they have every other problem in the world.

And so, yeah, it's—

but he could win.

What's interesting, I got asked to write a piece, and I forgot to tweet it out actually, but I got asked to write a piece for the California Post, which is like the New York Post but for the West Coast. It was about Charlie, what he thought about California. And Charlie loved California, loved how beautiful it was, but he would always— when you lay in there, he goes, man, what a beautiful state, it's a shame what they've done to it. Every time. That was his first, first thought, his first comment. And, you know, Gavin Newsom is just the living embodiment of what incompetent leadership looks like.

The Democrat plan in 2028 is to run on making America California. And it's, it's going to be very shameful if we can't beat that pitch.

I am so excited for our next guest. He's a man that needs no introduction to this audience, but I will say it anyways. Dennis Prager is one of the most respected and influential thinkers, writers, and speakers in America. He's a nationally syndicated talk show host. He is the founder of Prager University and is a New York Times bestselling author of 9 books. And he's a man who's been through a lot. Uh, but most importantly to this audience, as you all know, he was a dear friend and mentor to Charlie Kirk. And Dennis, uh, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. It is an indescribable honor to have you.

Oh, I, uh, I'm delighted to be with you. I'm delighted to be with you because you're you, because it's TPUSA, and because I'm delighted to be able to speak. Be perfectly honest, for those who don't know, I I had a catastrophic fall in my home on November 12th, 2024, which left me paralyzed from the shoulders down and not breathing without a ventilator and not speaking. And here I am having an interview with you. So you can imagine for all those reasons. And finally, I just might note, when I watched the funeral service and other memorial services for Charlie, and I heard all these people describe themselves as Charlie's closest friends, I I thought it was a great credit to Charlie. Like kids who think, you know, they have 5 kids and each one thinks that they are the parent's favorite. The parents did a good job. Charlie did a good job. But I would just like to remind everybody, or maybe they didn't even know it, so remind might not be the actual verb. And that is that his last book on Shabbat, on taking a day in the name of God, yep, there it is, Stop in the Name of God, Why Honoring the Sabbath Will Transform Your Life, was dedicated to me. Charlie wrote a beautiful dedication. Charlie called me I would say almost every week for at least 5 or 8 years. And he would call after listening to another tape of mine on the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible, with questions. And the whole idea of Shabbat came from our interactions. So, you know, I'm supposed to promote my book, but here I am promoting Charlie's book.

Well, it's a beautiful, beautiful testament to your guys' friendship. You've shared a deep, deep bond, and I And we are going to get to your book, which is titled If There Is No God: The Battle Over Who Defines Good and Evil. And the fact that you're even coming out with a book, Dennis, is a miracle and a testament to your character and your fortitude and your strength of will. But I want to read Erica Kirk's endorsement of the book. I think it's just so beautiful. And it's a bit long, but I'm going to do it. It says, this book is a treasure to me. Dennis was more than a mentor to my husband, Charlie. He was a dear friend and one of the few voices who played a role in encouraging Charlie's moral courage. The two of them shared a rare bond blessed by countless conversations about faith, morality, and what it means to live with conviction in a world that has lost its compass. Reading If There Is No God feels like sitting at the table with both of them again. It carries forward the very message that both Dennis and Charlie lived and Charlie died believing, that without God there can be no good, and without truth there can be no freedom. She's beautiful.

Yeah, it meant a great deal to me that she would write such a thing in the midst of her grief and and her battling people who want to destroy TPUSA. I have never encountered something like this effort to hurt a beautiful institution from people who supposedly are on our side. It's, I don't know if it's unprecedented, but I can't think of a precedent.

[Speaker:DENNIS PRAGER] Yeah, well, you know, I always tell people what God has unleashed, man cannot stop. And so we walk in great faith and great courage. And the movement is expanding. It's growing. Charlie's legacy looms large. I can tell you here at HQ, but at all the chapters, Dennis, that are exploding, it's not just, you know, we're opening 50 new chapters a day, but it's— they're not just 2 or 3 kids. We're talking 10, 15, 20, 50 kids, 100 kids. Some of these chapters are thousands of students large now. Because of the life and the legacy that Charlie left behind. And, and you were a huge part of that, Dennis. And one of your most famous questions, which relates to your book, of course, is the— it's a famous one from, from your days on the radio. If your beloved— if your beloved dog and a stranger are drowning, who do you save first? This became an incredibly famous question. It's also sort of a starting point for this book. Please explain.

That's right. I've actually been asking this question for 50 years. 50 years. And the results are— have been the same throughout those 50 years. I would ask high school students or college students, If they love their dogs, which everybody who has one does, and a stranger were drowning and their dog were drowning, who would they try to save first? I know that they would all love to save both and so on, but they have to try to save one first. And virtually every instance cut across economic, racial, religious lines. In virtually every instance, one-third of the group said they would save the stranger, one-third said the dog, and one-third didn't know what they would do. Two-thirds of Americans over half a century would not save would not say that they would save the stranger. And that led me to the, the whole supposition of the book, that what they were doing is substituting emotions for values. I love my dog is an emotion. Humans are created in God's image is of value. That's why I would save a stranger before my beloved dogs. My wife really loves our dogs. I only love them. She really loves them. And she would save a stranger first because she believes that people are created in God's image. Animals are not.

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I really want to drive home for anyone who is a more recent listener, just, and, or just didn't know how important your moral guidance was to Charlie when he would think about moral questions. Andrew, you know, he would mention this in private. You know, Dennis says this, this is how Dennis used this problem. He really looked up to you for moral reasoning like that and for framing things. So many things that you would say and we would hear him repeat on campuses because you have that great way of distilling, like, like that difference, you know, using emotions instead of values and the subtle differences between them. Uh, I want us to play one of those clips just to illustrate that. We have Charlie, uh, citing you for a moral question, 487.

I learned this from the great Dennis Prager, who says, stop focusing on intentions, focus on the actions. It's a much better way to judge whether or not something is right or wrong. Intentions, as I've said before, and there's a video that went viral, the Nazis thought they were doing good. They convinced themselves that they were doing good when in reality they were doing some of the greatest evil in the history of the species.

That's very moving to me, obviously. I don't know if either of you know this. Charlie visited me in my hospital room and he brought a copy of the trans— of the transcript of his book. Little did I know, little— it never occurred to me Of course, that I would not see Charlie again. And it broke my heart on every ground.

Well, yeah, Dennis, even in the aftermath of Charlie's assassination, your subtitle, The Battle Over Who Defines Good and Evil, and you think about, I would say the vast majority of people reacted as you would expect and hope to the tragedy and sadness and horror and shock. But there was some voices that reacted in glee, in celebration. And I can't help but think of your subtitle in that book as the perfect distillation of why the battle of who gets to define good and evil matters so much.

Well, if man determines, humans determine what is good and evil, then you can have moral inversions where the Nazis are good guys and the Jews and others are bad guys. You have that now in the Middle East where all of a sudden the Nazis of our time The true Nazis of our time, Hamas, are the good guys. They're battling colonialism and Israel, a democracy with one-fifth of its citizens are Arab Muslims who thrive there and who supported Israel by and large in this war. Israel is the bad guy. We are living in a morally inverted universe.

Dennis Prager, I want to ask you a question that you address in the book. It's called the problem of pain, as C.S. Lewis said. You know, how does your book answer the question of why a supposedly good God allows for so much suffering and evil in the world?

I've dealt with that all of my life. And I have so much to say on it. I'll try to be concise. All right. First of all, people need to deal with that issue before tragedy strikes in their life. If you start thinking about that question.

What?

Only once you've been hurt, it's too late. I, I, for whatever reason, was preoccupied with the problem of evil from my high school days. So I have— I dealt with it before I was personally hit by the tragedy that I am currently living. All right. And therefore, I already had answers. People— I'll give you a great example. A woman called my radio show many years ago, said, you know, I just want you to know, Dennis, that I always vehemently disagreed with you on capital punishment. I was opposed to capital punishment and you were ardently for it. Well, I've come around now to your point of view. I'm for capital punishment. And I said, why? He said, because my brother was murdered. So of course I offered condolences. But then I said what needed to be said, that I said, I said to her, hey, wait a minute. So when millions of other people's brothers were murdered, you never asked the question. And she agreed she had never asked the question before. This is a common flaw in the human species. We deal with issues only when we are confronted by them. You've got to deal with these issues way before you're hit by them. I did. My way of dealing with it is through reason. And religion, the greatest combination there is, Judeo-Christian religions and reason. And that is that God allows evil to take place because we would be robots otherwise. Life would lose its meaning. People would no longer be a free species. So that has to happen. And as regards a natural evil, if you will, cancer of the undeserving, you're right, we don't have an answer to that. I've read book after book by theologian after theologian. There's no great answer to the question. And therefore, we have only Job's the answer at the end of Job where God says, where were you when I created the world? Do you know why eagles make nests? In other words, we're like puppies, uh, as, uh, compared to human beings in our ability to understand life. When we compare ourselves to God, we don't know the answer. But I will say I do believe that there's bad luck. Most religious people differ with me, but I think God, in my case, God allowed gravity to, uh, and lack of friction to take its course. Well, what was he supposed to do? Stop it from happening to me? And I wrote this stuff decades before what happened to me.

It's remarkable. And I know one thing I think about— I know Charlie had wanted to do his Sabbath book even before your accident. I know he was planning it, but I also recall after it occurred, I know that really motivated him to make sure that was his next book. That he would work on, and it moved him to complete it quickly. I don't know if that offers some solace to you or not, but I think, I know Charlie drew some inspiration. He really wanted to get this Dennis-inspired book, 'cause he knew maybe you wouldn't recover, and he wanted to make sure that he would have, be able to carry on your legacy as well with his own work. And now, I know none of us expected this, but we're glad that, I guess you could return the favor. You are continuing Charlie's legacy. We're trying to continue Charlie's legacy after what happened.

And I dedicated my book, which is coming out now, If There Is No God, to Charlie, as it happens, which I would have done anyway. But now it was to Charlie's memory, which I still to this day, I find that almost as unbelievable as my, my paralysis. Charlie Kirk is dead. I, I, it's this vibrant, incredibly young man. It's—

I know. Yeah, it's a, it's a reality that we confront every day, and We still have his seat open here in the studio, Dennis, and we'll never fill it. And, but it's a comfort. I didn't realize how comforting it was gonna be for me personally to talk to you, Dennis, and to see you doing so well. I didn't know what to expect when I saw you. And your mind is as vibrant and as alive as ever, even if your body's rebelling against you. And this has been truly wonderful. I wish we could have more time, and in fact, Maybe we'll try for that. But thank you so much, Dennis Prager, for talking about your book and talking about Charlie with us today.

I would love another opportunity to talk to you. And you really— you may not be in that chair, but you're filling the seat beautifully.

Thank you, Dennis.

And finally, I just ask your listeners and viewers, to order a copy of If There Is No God. It, it will change lives.

Everybody, please go get a copy today of Dennis's incredibly important new book, If There Is No God: The Battle Over Who Defines Good and Evil. Get it today everywhere books are sold. Dennis Prager, God bless you, and we'll talk with you soon.

You too. Thank you.

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.