Perspective & Gratitude

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everybody! Dennis and Julie are now temporarily Sean and Julie. Hi everyone, I'm Julie Hartman. Sean McConnell here. Sean and Julie, it's great to be with you. We're so sorry that we missed a few episodes as Many of you know by now there have been terrible, terrible wildfires ravaging Southern California, and unfortunately those wildfires particularly affected the two people who you are looking at right now, especially the one right in front of me. Sean, as many of you know, lost his home in the Altadena fires. My parents live in Pacific Palisades. I grew up in Pacific Palisades, and We thought that we lost our home. And literally moments ago, I got news that we actually didn't lose our home. Our home was one of the few that survived. I mean, I think 80 to 90% of homes in the Palisades were destroyed. And my street, I mean, I was looking at videos on Twitter last week of my neighbor's houses going up in flames. We know that the house as close as 4 doors down to us was destroyed. So it's truly a miracle that ours survived, though of course we won't be able to live in it for quite some time because there's no water, there's no gas, there's no power, etc.

That's incredible. It's incredible. I've seen the devastation in Palisades and no, the odds that your parents' house survived is, is remarkable.

It is crazy. I mean, I am so grateful because we didn't lose our childhood. Videos and photos. That's what was devastating me the most, the fact that those may have burned. So thank God that those are okay. But as I said, we won't be able to live in it because of the, the toxic air and lack of utilities. But you did lose your home.

I did. I did.

Um, I'm so sorry.

Yeah, well, I've learned a lot of things in the last week. And like you, my parents' house survived. They live right across from Eaton Canyon on Altadena Drive. And it's a miracle that their house survived. All their fencing and all the stuff around their house burned. Their neighbor's house partially burned. And you can literally see where, um, we have some pictures and, and, uh, we'll have Brandon put them in there, where the fire burned right up to the back of their garage and stopped. I don't know. I don't know. And I, I'm, I've been having a hard time evoking politics or God when it comes to this because what am I supposed to believe, that God saved your parents, saved my parents, but burned me? I don't, I don't, I don't know what I don't know what to say. And I suppose that's possible. And the whole political thing between Trump and Newsom and water and reservoirs and—

Karen Bass.

When you lose everything, those things take a backseat, I guess. So that's where I'm coming from. And I'm sure there's plenty of discussion for all that and time for that. The more immediate issue is, There are a lot of people that are devastated by this, and it's going to be a long time before they're able to recover. Um, and I, even in my situation, I feel, I feel blessed. I feel lucky that my parents still have their house. That gives me something to look forward to. Um, there are a lot of people that just lost their house and they're in a hotel and they don't know where they're going. So I do feel lucky. I've also— I don't know how many times I've said this this week— Salem has been so gracious and they set up a GoFundMe for me. And, um, people all over the country that I know, that I don't know, from, from high school to now have reached out. And I had to turn off the alerts for the GoFundMe because every time I would get one, it would make me cry.

I—

there's been so much loss and so much love all at once, and it's— either one would be enough to, to break you. Um, and I took some time, and I, I'm still healing. And, uh, no matter how I feel, I I still think about everyone else in a worse situation. So I love the community of Altadena, and I knew that living there, but I didn't really think about it until everything was gone. Um, it's a great community, and, and I would like to live there again, but it's going to be a long time. Much like the Palisades, whole neighborhoods just gone, decimated. And there's no rhyme or reason to one house on a street surviving and, and all the rest being gone, or, or vice versa, all the houses on one street and one house gone. Um, that's what happened on my street. All the houses are gone except for one, and, uh, I'm just not, I'm not sure how to make sense of that other than to say, um, I got off of work on Tuesday and I went home and I was receiving phone calls from my mom who had been evacuated because they live towards the end of where the Eaton Canyon Fire started. And this happened a couple years ago. and it just darkened the skies and made it hard to breathe. And I wasn't affected by it other than that. And so that's what I thought was happening again. I got home and my mom was in my driveway and she had packed, um, some clothes and toiletries and, and the dogs and, and the stuff the dogs need and my medicine. And I had about 10 minutes. And at that point I was worried about them. I was worried about their house burning. It seemed pretty obvious their house was going to burn. So I grabbed what I thought I needed to help them get through this and that my evacuation was just a formality. So I grabbed a laptop and a backup battery power bank. And it's surreal because I think back to looking at items in my house thinking, what should I grab? What should I not grab? What do I need? What do I don't need? I never thought when I was grabbing things that That'd be the last. That would be all that I would own. Um, but again, I mean, I'm in a— I'm alive, the dogs are alive, the Jeep is alive. The Jeep— everything I own fits in the Jeep.

So, well, Sean, we love you so much.

I was lucky enough to get to a hotel. I know you guys love me, and I've felt that love from you.

We love you so much.

And, um, That does help, it gives hope. And you and I have talked, not to get away from the fire, but in the midst of all of this, you and I both agreed, and this is when we thought your parents' house was gone and there was very good likelihood that it was, that you and I would much rather lose our houses than go through what Dennis and Sue are going through. And I did talk with Sue and she agreed. She just wrote back, me too. And so, That's what I mean. No matter what I'm going through, I'm okay. And I know there's people going through much tougher situations. It's also hard, and maybe we can talk about this. I'm used to helping people and I'm not used to being helped, and that's a hard thing for me.

I know, I actually was about to say that.

And I've had to learn that. So to get back to the story, we're in the hotel My sister from the Bay Area was lucky enough to book us a room in a hotel, which was very difficult at that time. And, uh, we were watching the news like everybody else, and there was a reporter doing a story from in front of my mother's neighbor's house, and everything behind her was on fire. And so people were sending us the video and calling in and to my mom and saying, we're so devastated, I'm sorry you lost your house. And so when Wednesday morning rolled around, I told my mom, I said, look, get in the Jeep, we're going up there. We're— I need to see, you know, you can't just trust these news reports. And this is before they locked down the area, and it was probably stupid, but we went up there, and lo and behold, when we got there, the house was still standing. Like I said, the perimeter had been burned. And I spent the better part of that morning putting out areas that were still smoldering with the garden hose. A neighbor's tree had fallen and was still burning. I went over and put that out. And while I was doing that, I received a phone call from my place saying it's all gone.

Oh God.

So we got my mom into the house and whatever she needed for, her and my stepdad and sent her back to the hotel. And my brother, who had come up to help, I looked at him and I said, we need to go. We need to go see my place because you can't go off of people's words. You have to see things with your own eyes. I needed to see it. So we drove through the hellscape. I'll never forget what I saw. And I think anyone that that witnessed that stuff will never forget it either. I've never been to war. God bless you if you have. Thank you for your service. That's the only thing I can use to describe it. You see power poles that are burning from the inside and they have no base and they're just swinging from the wires and fallen trees and the devastation where all you see are chimneys and everything's blackened and people are just kind of milling around. Um, there wasn't enough firefighters or police. There wasn't— they couldn't be everywhere all at once, and there was no way to secure everything. Uh, so we went down my street, and that was really hard because you see the faces of the people that live in the houses that aren't there anymore. I know. Uh, and we drove as far as we could. There was a big tree that had fallen and blocked the road, and, uh, we stopped the Jeep and, uh, we got out, and all we heard was—

sorry, that is so not what I was expecting.

Oh, and we'll show a picture. Um, we got out of the Jeep and there were 7 goats covered in soot, all huddled together, just staring at my brother and I as if to say, what, what the hell do we do? And they, they had been loose. They had lived through that whole thing. I don't know how, but they were, they were sitting there. And my brother said, we got to do something for these goats. And I just remember thinking, what the hell can I do for the goats?

They were probably looking at you like—

I just figured if they were hungry enough, they'd find grass. I didn't— I don't— my head was— the smell, uh, the smoke, even with a mask, it was really hard to breathe. Um, and so we walked the rest of the way up to where I used to live. And everything was gone. Nothing was, uh, nothing was taller than my kneecap. I could make out the, the tub and a pot that used to sit on the stove. Um, then it was, it was, and then that's when my brother took that picture that I didn't know he took. That you see on the GoFundMe page. And so I saw it and I'll never forget it. And we had to go because you can't stand in that stuff too long. And we drove back down through the chaos and realized the breadth and the depth of the devastation and how many neighborhoods have just been leveled by this fire. And I know as bad as it is in Altadena, I think it's even worse in Palisades where you grew up and where your parents are. And I'm so glad that their house is still there. That's great news that we just found out because I know the hell you've been going through not knowing. And it's like that for a lot of people. They don't know, they can't get in there. So it's going to be a long time to to repair these structures and these families and businesses. And the next day, just so you know, so there's resolution on the goats, my mom and I were up there trying to get into the neighborhood, which we couldn't. And she stopped and she went over to animal control that happened to be at a corner and told them about the goats. And so animal control took down the information and went up there. And the goats have been reunited with their owners.

Good.

Uh, the McDonald's. That's all I know.

This is the most American story.

Old McDonald got their goats back. Yeah, and they called us to thank us. And so there was good resolution for the goats. Um, but there's stories like that all over the place that I'm sure will continue to trickle out about people that spent their whole lives in Altadena or Pacific Palisades or, or, and, and lost everything. Um, and I've never been any, been through anything like that. Um, yeah, I, I've seen GoFundMes. I've, I've never thought I would be the subject of one.

Um, by the way, we will link the GoFundMe below and Sean, I mean, so many people have donated and I know how much it has meant to you. And there have been so many Dennis and Julie listeners and Timeless listeners who have donated. I mean, the amount of people who've reached out to me asking me to resend it to them. I was actually just on the phone with a guest who was on Timeless, Solomon Schmidt. He— Schmidt, excuse me. He is the child prodigy. He's 21 years old and wrote a biography of Alan Dershowitz. And he has a forthcoming one about Jake Gyllenhaal. Donated.

Really?

He donated. I mean, just the amount of people. And so I'm— on behalf of Sean, thank you. Thank you. Because Sean, let me just say something about you. You are— what you said a few minutes ago is so true. You are one of the most giving, selfless people I have ever known. Sean, when I started out in radio 4 summers ago, and I was the— I was Dennis's intern, and then I came on the, the radio show once a week, and then at the end of the summer Dennis was in hungry, and he asked me to guest host his radio show. I was so honored and so nervous. I can't tell you how many hours I spent in that old— down the hall, not, not this studio, but down the hall— that old booth. Yeah, sitting there and taking notes and talking with you and trying to learn. You were so helpful and gracious. I mean, any overtime, you know, like I would call you at night and we'd talk. I mean, you were, you were so helpful. And you came in and I'll never forget this. I don't even think you remember this. I show up, it's August 10th, 2021, and I'm about to guest host for Dennis at the age of 21. I'm so nervous. They're counting, you know, it's maybe 3 minutes until showtime. And I look through the glass and I see you. Making the sign of the cross and praying for me.

I was, yeah.

That was so touching to me. I can't tell you, I, I had tears shoot up and then I thought, no, not, not now, focus, focus. I can't tell you how touched I was by that because you didn't know me, you had no allegiance to me, you had no anything. I mean, it was, and you just from the minute I met you, embraced me like you were my big brother and you were so there for me. And by the way, what you may not remember, but I certainly remember too, is that apparently I did an adequate job because later that day, Salem called me and they said, Mike Gallagher needs a guest host tomorrow morning. Do you want to do it? I'm like, I've been preparing for this thing for, you know, weeks and oh my gosh, can I do this on 24 hours notice? And I called Sean and Sean said, Absolutely, you do it. And I said, well, you know, I'm gonna be with the producers in New York, you know, they're gonna be remotely in my ear, but I'm so nervous. And I said, could you come in? And Gallagher starts at 6:00 AM, right? And you said, of course. You didn't get paid for it. You didn't— nothing. You came in. I remember you trudging in at 5:00 AM to be there for me. That's the kind of person you are. And I will never forget that. I will never stop appreciating that. And so Sean, in your time of need, Please know that no one, no one deserves it more than you.

Well, thank you again. It goes back to accepting help and accepting compliments, and I'm not very good at that. And that's something I've learned that over the past week and a half, to just say thank you.

Well, I want to— there's a lot that I want to talk with you about. I mean, I know that we'll leave politics to the side because that remains to be seen, you know, what happened.

Right.

And who, if anyone, is responsible. I mean, I think a lot of people are responsible. Seeing Gavin Newsom walk in the burned streets of my neighborhood acting like he cares, that really was kind of a salt on the wound. I had just— I would have preferred that he not even show up. I just I just don't want him near my neighborhood. But anyway, we'll leave politics to the side for at the moment. But of course, I want to ask you about God. I want to talk about religion a bit because Dennis and I had a conversation about this. I've seen him a lot recently, and I was there the other day shortly after the fires, and I told him, you know, what happened. When we, we didn't know yet about my house, but when I told him that your house was destroyed, the look of horror and concern on his face was something that, that I'll never forget. He was just so sad for you and so sad for our fellow Angelenos.

Um, is there any update on Dennis Prager? I—

no, I mean, same stuff. I'm sorry, you can't imagine how sorry I am because I know every single episode I go, I know everybody wants an update, but as I have said many times, and so frustrating. His condition is right, so such a long slog. Like, I'm, I'm expect for the next 4 months— I'm not kidding— the same answer that I'm giving. It's just there's no update, right? I wish there were. But anyway, we were, we were talking and I said to him, because at that— I think it was the 11th of January when I went there, and that was the day 2 months earlier that we filmed our last Dennis and Julie. And I sat there with him and I said, if someone could have come to us 2 months ago and said— and take the, the Trinity of, uh, we, we call ourselves the Trinity: Sean, Dennis, and Julie. The 3 of us are really, really close.

Yeah.

If someone could have come in and said, one of you is going to become incapacitated, one of you is going to lose their home.

Yeah.

And the other is going to come damn close to losing their home and lose their whole community.

Right.

We would have looked at each other like, oh my God, we've been trying to promote truth, beauty, and goodness for the past few years. What happened? But you know what? And again, Dennis and I talked about this to the extent that he can contribute to the conversation. And he said, what a dark time. He mouthed that. He said, what a dark time. And I said, I know. And I said, if someone could have told us that. And we both agreed that of course we would have been surprised, but we wouldn't have been surprised. Because the irony is on Dennis and Julie time and time and time again. We would discuss the subject that no one is immune from life's tragedies. Things can change in an instant. The things that we think are guaranteed to us are not guaranteed to us. I remember an episode pretty recently of Dennis and Julie. Dennis was talking about being on the subway, and I brought this up to him in person, and there was a sign that said, "You're the other guy." You know, you think that it's other people's homes that burn down, it's other people who get into these freak accidents and, you know, are incapacitated. No, It's you. You are the other guy. And it's what you just said, that you never thought that you would be the recipient of a GoFundMe. And so if there's something to be gleaned from this, I think it's that the three of us right now are being tested, especially Dennis. And let me tell you that he is passing his test with flying colors. He is the most stoic, gracious individual. The way that he is carrying this burden, I can't even tell you all of you. He, he, I couldn't do it.

It is right.

He is so gracious. He, he never exudes any semblance of victimhood. He is the same Dennis Prager. He is, he is living what he has preached for 40 years. And I think the three of us are in this moment of a test. All the things that we have espoused in the comfort of this studio, when they actually hit us, do we pass that test?

There's a lot there. There's two things I want to talk about. One is that even through this, I know God is good. And I don't know how to explain that other than to know that when you lose everything, you realize it's stuff. Stuff can be replaced. I mean, there are things that are not stuff. There's sentimental things, there's, um, family heirlooms that just cannot be replaced.

I know.

But you identify with the things that you have or have accumulated. They are part of you. They are part of your personality. They make you who you are. And you take pride in those things. And when they're gone, you realize what really matters. And what really matters is your faith, the love of your family and the people around you, and your community.

You know, sorry, I don't—

No, no, no. It's just important to know that even going through this, I know God is good. That without, without belief in God, I don't know how someone gets through something like this. And the other thing was, and I'm going to lose my train of thought. Maybe it'll come back to me. I'm sorry.

No, I mean, Bingo. Yeah. Dennis and Julie bingo. One of them is one of the hosts loses his or her train, train of thought. But you know what's so sad? And it was really— my heart was so heavy as you were describing driving into your community and seeing the homes gone and having it be unrecognizable. I mean, that is the thing that right now is making me devastated.

Right.

And as I speak, my heart is so, so heavy because although my house was spared, literally a miracle. I mean, Sean was on the phone with me recently and he was like, I don't know how it's possible, right? Because the— it is— the Palisades is just decimated. But there are these freak kind of things that happen where the fire skips over a house. And so I'm grateful, but I mean, I was watching the news. It's similar to what you said about your mom. I was looking at KTLA and there's a guy with a microphone and that's my neighbor's house. That's 4 houses down is burning, like a blazing inferno. And I remember the day that it happened, which was such a dark day. Oh my gosh, it was like a horror movie unfolding over the course of many hours. I know I couldn't sleep that night. You know, the fire, we knew there was a fire. My parents were texting in our family group chat and then all of a sudden, you know, they're evacuated. I'm like, my gosh, they're evacuated. This is so weird. They're at the hotel and we're looking at the news and we're just watching this fire creep closer and closer to our town. By the time the sun went down, Palisades High School where I swam for years, I mean, that was like, that was my second high school. I know that place so well. Every day for, for years, since I was 5 years old, I would spend there. Gone. We see it up in, in a blaze. The supermarket that I, that we went to, have gone to since I was born. Gone. The church at the end of our block, the Catholic church that we were at on Christmas Eve. MyPillow is excited to announce that their Christmas extravaganza is finally here. Get this season's flannel sheets for as low as $59.98. They won't last long, so get them while you can. Get their famous My Slippers. I wear them. These haven't been on sale for over a year and they are regularly priced at $119.98. But for a limited time, wow, now they are only $59.98. And their 6-piece towel sets are back in stock with extremely limited quantities. I also use them. You can use them for only $29.98. With hundreds of MyPillow products, there's something for everyone on your Christmas list, from bathrobes, duvets, quilts, down comforters, and so much more. Go to mypillow.com or call 1-800-566-6745, and be sure to use the promo code Hartman, H-A-R-T-M-A-N, to save on all MyPillow products. That's the promo code Hartman for flannel sheets for as low as $59.98, or the 6-piece towel sets for just $29.98. But again, that's not all. They're extending their 60-day money-back guarantee until March 1st, 2025. Plus, all orders over $75 or more ship absolutely free. The hair salon that I went to 3 days before the fire— I was in the Palisades, I got my hair done, I went to my wax lady— gone. These, these images, the street, this beautiful neighborhood— I would run 5Ks on The 4th of July, where our parades were, the Turkey Trot. I mean, this was a tight community. It was a family-oriented, quaint, tight community. I know everybody in that town. I mean, I can drive down the street and I'm like, oh, this couple and this, gone. And I'm looking at Twitter and I'm watching my supermarket and the church and where I went to elementary school for kindergarten, gone, up in flames. The whole thing, I'm texting my hairstylist, I'm texting my wax lady, This is such a tight community. And the thing that I can't fathom right now is although my house is spared, it's not the place I knew because that is what made the Palisades home for me. It wasn't just my house. It was the community. It was all of the people and all of the structures. And I so relate to what you're saying because on the one hand, it is just stuff. You know, it's just buildings. It sounds so weird, but watching my supermarket go up in flames, I was crying watching it and I'm like, why do I have such— but knowing I'm not going to walk down those aisles, it's, it's weird. But that supermarket or that hair salon or that church, like those things were as much my home as my home.

Right.

And the people in their homes, though, that's home for me.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. "Who do you save?" Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits 3 ways. 1/3 chooses the dog, 1/3 chooses the stranger, and 1/3 aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at Prager pragerstore.com. That's pragerstore.com.

I identify with everything you said, except I don't have a wax lady.

Oh, guess what? I love my wax lady. Mwah! Diana and Mila. Mila Skincare in the Palisades. They're You know what, I'll just say something quickly about them. And I really could cry talking about this. They have been our wax ladies for as long as I've been alive. They were waxing my mom and my sister, or my mom, because my sisters were young, my mom before I was born. But they, and this is where the community aspect really comes in, Gina, my sister with autism, she's actually refused service at a lot of places because You know, it's disruptive. She needs staff with her. She throws balls in the air. She is echolalic. She'll like move her hands and she'll kind of say that, you know, it's disruptive for a business. Diana and Mila have been so kind to my sister. They have never refused her. They have loved her like their own. They will literally like shut down the business for an hour or two so that she can come in and there's quiet and she's comfortable. She— they, they have been so good to her and she talks about them all the time and loves them so much. And I will never, ever stop being grateful to them for the way that they've treated her. And that's, again, that's what hurts so much because those are such good people. They're not just my— they're not just the people who wax me, you know. They're family. They've been there for us. They know. They've seen me grow up. They've seen Gina grow up. They know what we've been through with her. They know us. And their whole business is gone. Their whole livelihood is gone. I, uh, it's so weird. It's such a strange thing.

I know in a past episode we lamented that a sense of community has been lost in America through large cities breeding anonymity and the internet breeding anonymity. It's events like this that are— I remember after 9/11, events like this where you do feel that sense of community, you do feel that outreach from the goodness of the people in this country. And I, you know, how many— I don't know how many times I've told you this. I know that I've told you this a million times. There are more good people than bad people in this country. And the day that that scale tips, we're in trouble. But you, you lose sight of it in the day-to-day, in the, the rat race of it all. And it's— that's one of the things I've learned in, in this happening, is that there is goodness in people all over the place. And it's, it's a shame that it takes tragedies like this to feel that. Yeah, um, to see that outpouring, but it's there. And I think it would be important for everyone out there, whether you're going through tragedy or not, to remember that it is there and, and to try and, try and exude that even in times of normalcy, in, in times where there aren't tragedies. I think America would be better off if, if we all tried a little harder to not cut somebody off or be the first in line or get the closest parking space. Um, just remember there are moments like this, and I, I lost track of that too. I, I— one of the lessons I learned, and you, you said it, that I work hard, and I do. Nothing was going to stop me.

Yes.

Nothing was going to stop you from working.

You were running yourself into the ground. Yeah, I was watching you do it.

Yeah.

And so it's— it sounds so bizarre, but I'm strangely grateful for this terrible thing because at the very least it's given you a week to not come into work.

Truly, truly.

I mean, I was very, very worried for you.

Yeah. And it's— it's a lot.

By the way, I continue to be, and you need— I'm saying it right now. You need to slow down.

I hear you, I hear you. Uh, no, they're asking if it was the same during COVID and, and things were not the same for me during COVID because I, unlike most of America, did not have a break for COVID. I was considered media. Uh, the only difference I saw during COVID was the freeways were open. I went to work every day. I did not have a lockdown, um, and so COVID didn't affect me the way it affected other people. So of all the things I've been through in my life, this, this recent fire is the most devastating.

Um, you know, I don't mean to interrupt, but I want to say this before I lose my, my train of thought, because we're taught— we both can relate to each other that I am devastated that my grocery store is gone. I'm devastated that, you know, the school and the church makes more sense. But these, these places like the hair salon, of course I'm sad for the people, but I'm sad for the physical structures too, because I'm realizing I'll never— and again, I was there 3 days before the fire, and I'm realizing I know these places so well, I'm never gonna come in through the back and walk through that hallway and go there, you know, in the in the Gelson's where we would go. I mean, the chicken tenders were in the back, the fruit and the produce was to the right, and I'm thinking I'm never gonna go into there again. And I'm trying to think why that is so heartbreaking. And again, it's because the same way that knowing your home and knowing all the hallways and all the corridors, it makes you feel the familiarity makes you feel at home. It's the same thing where those structures and knowing them makes you feel at home. And also what I've realized is my dead grandparents have been in those places.

My—

when I was a baby, my mom would take me in the cart and wheel me up and down the aisle. You know, I look at that structure and it's— I think about all the people who I love who've been in there. I think about all the iterations of me that have been in there. I think of my sister and her shadow coming in, and that's where she learned how to count change. And she— the cash registers would be so patient with her as she would, you know, count things. I mean, it just— those spaces are, are not just spaces. They hold memories, then they hold parts of you. And anyway, as I've been trying to figure out why I was crying watching this grocery store go up in flames. I've realized that.

Yeah, it's been a little more than a week and I've been up and down. Things will just pop into your head, things that you had or you owned, and it's gone. And there's no rhyme or reason to what—

your guitars—

there's no— I lost— yeah, lost the guitars, uh, lost birth certificate, everything, all kinds of stuff. Um, it's the sentimental stuff that can't be replaced. Like, I had a set of lamps from my grandparents, and I love those lamps, and you can't replace those lamps. I was walking along and I realized I needed to, uh, trim my nails, and I didn't— I didn't own a set of nail clippers anymore. And then it makes you cry, and it's so weird to cry over nail clippers. Um, but that's what happened. Uh, I can't imagine the cleanup that's gonna have to take place.

Oh my God.

But it did, it did make me reprioritize everything in my life. That's what I was going to say earlier. It made me realize who I am is who I am, not what I own. So to a certain extent, who I am is what I do, but it made me realize all of the things in my life that I have changed, that I have overcome the person I have become was in me and not attached to the things in my life. Um, and that was a really big realization, uh, to, to, to realize that I have changed things in my life and that I struggled with addiction and And I can't imagine somebody going through this with addictions. You know, that was the other thing I remembered, making the New Year's resolution to lose weight this year. And I remember thinking, even this, even this cannot stop me from that.

Yep.

You know, that resolution to lose weight is important to me beyond all my material possessions. And no matter what happens, whether I'm in a halfway house or whatever, till I can get back to having my own place, That's a priority. And those things are in me, they are of me, and they're between me and God and, and no one else. And so when you lose everything, um, I think that's the biggest lesson that I learned. And of course, being able to save the dogs, uh, who are out of their routine, so they're a little off, but at the— for the most part, they're dogs and they're just happy to be there and they're happy to see um, that's a big relief. Knowing that my parents are safe, knowing that somehow their house was spared, is a big relief. And I know a lot of people out there don't have that relief. They are faced with not having their home, not having their childhood home, being in a hotel, not knowing where they're going to go, how long it's going to take to rebuild, all of that stuff. There's a time and a place to debate those things. Uh, and I'm so glad, I'm so glad that you finally found out that your parents' house didn't disappear, because the statistical anomaly of that— if you've seen, there's a lot of guilt racked up in that, you know.

There's, there's so much relief.

There's something to be said for that, but there's a lot of guilt.

And there's also, again, it's, you know, we can't live there. Trust me, I'm grateful. Oh, I know that we have it, right? I'm very grateful, right? But we cannot live there.

No. I was in—

here's something most people don't know. When Warren When Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade, it wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888, and over the last 25 years, its average 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Buffett understood early: banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount29.com. That's secretaccount29.com. The numbers 29.com. Secretaccount29.com.

Hotel with my, my mom and my stepdad and two dogs. Craziness. Uh, and my mom was on the phone elated finding out that her house, I know, had survived. And she was telling somebody that God had blessed her. And I was sitting there going, what does that mean for me?

Yeah.

And so the guilt you're talking about is real. The people that have survived for no fault of their own have to be careful with their words.

Yes, yes.

And that was a realization because Dennis and I talked—

sorry.

Yeah, no, go ahead.

No, Dennis and I would talk about this, like, you know, that, that it felt weird to say, oh, thank God, or God, you know, saved— if there's a horrible car accident and somebody's relative survived and someone else's died. God saved my son.

But then what is the other side?

What does the other side of that say?

Right.

And, you know, I was talking with a friend earlier today about how I understand this, and I'm so curious what, what you have to say. And I actually asked Dennis this question, and I will relate to what he said. We were, we were talking about how we understand this in the scope of God, and I said to Dennis the other day You know, we have these quiet moments when the nurses are not there and, and, you know, it's just the two of us in the room. We really got to have our, our deep, our deep moments. And I said to him, why do you think this happened to you? And he looked up kind of, you know, in his Dennis way, he thought, and then he looked right at me and he goes, he mouthed, I fell. I fell. And it was so simple. And I know this is a trite— it's so simple, yet so profound. But it was so simple, yet so profound because—

I just remembered what I was going to say earlier. Okay, good. I won't forget it. Go ahead.

Okay, good. Um, he was— he— I fell. And I said, do you think, you know, God caused this? And he goes, no. And I understood what he was saying. We have free will. We are affected certainly by our own free will, but we're also affected by others' free will. And so if you're driving down a highway and some other car is crazy and swerves and hits your car, maybe that's not your free will. It was your free will to get behind the wheel, but you are affected by other people's free will to swerve into you. Dennis, it was his free will to get out of the shower and walk across the wet floor to get a razor and He slipped and fell. And so that was his answer. And in a way, at least for me, there's a comfort in explaining the happenings of life in the context of free will. That some people, maybe they lit a fire or somehow a fire happened and it just swept through and it ruined both of our neighborhoods. That actually is comforting to me, or that's satisfying to me, as hard as it is. Here's what I struggle with more. If you are a Catholic, as we both are, if you're a Christian, you believe in the presence of an evil force, Satan, the devil, a conscious animate force for evil that is goading you or that's contributing, to use a terrible analogy at this point, you know, fueling the fire of bad things. That is something that I struggle more with, if that is true. And I'll tell you something quickly that my uncle said to me. You know my uncle, he's a really smart, whip-smart guy, extremely thoughtful. And he's a Catholic, very devout Catholic. And I called him and I said, why do you think this happened to Dennis Prager? This was before the fires. And he said a fascinating answer. I actually told Dennis this answer. He said, I think that the devil knew that Dennis was so formidable in his morality and his intellect that they couldn't corrupt his mind or his soul. So they— so he, the devil, came at Dennis physically. Wow. And I told Dennis that, huh? And Dennis was very touched because his intellect and his morality and his soul means the most to him.

Yeah.

And he, you know, he was touched that my uncle was paying him that inadvertent compliment. But he also, he said he entertains that possibility. He said he wouldn't rule that out.

Wow.

So that's what's harder for me. If it is just free will, fires can happen. People can fall, okay, but if there's some element of a malign actor, that's difficult.

Here's something most people don't know. When Warren Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 $1,000 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade. It wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888, and over the last 25 years, it's averaged 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts, paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Understood early. Banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount29.com. That's secret account, the numbers, 29.com. secretaccount29.com.

I certainly believe in the forces of good and evil. Um, I tend to be more hands-off in believing that God created the Earth and humanity and has sat back and watches it like an ant farm, hoping that it will succeed, that it's not— that he's not reaching in to affect things, nor that the devil is doing such. Um, but that's just my opinion. I have no basis for that. I just— I can't say either way whether that's true or not. Um, I have learned So that I don't forget what I was going to say, that— and I know Dennis has talked about this many times, and maybe he's talked about it with you— that when people win the lottery, it doesn't change who they are. If you're a bad person and you win the lottery, it doesn't make you a good person. If you're a good person and you win the lottery, it doesn't, it doesn't change who you are. It just amplifies who you were before that happened. And I want to expand that theory beyond the lottery, because what I've learned in what I've gone through the past week and a half is that events like this crisis and trauma does the same thing as winning the lottery. It amplifies who you are as a person.

It tests it.

A bad person before this happens becomes a looter. or does whatever they have to to get to where they have to go without regard for other people. And it also amplifies the goodness in people. And when a tragedy strikes, um, and I've learned that too. So I really ascribe to that theory that these big life-changing things that happen in life, they don't change who you are. They amplify who or what you were before it happened. And that was the thing I didn't want to forget to say. As far as God and the devil, I don't know. It would take a theologian or a whole room of theologians, and I'm sure that will be debated till the end of time because we will never know that. And I don't believe we are meant to know that.

I'm glad we don't know.

Yeah. And I wish that was the only thing that people debated over. That everything else in life was whittled down to just those kind of discussions between people. So it's interesting to talk about. I don't know. I don't know. It certainly is true that Dennis was a force, is a force, that nothing was going to stop him from doing what he did. As to whether there was an outside force that caused that to happen, I don't know if your uncle's right. I don't know. Or whether it's just dumb luck and he fell. I don't know. And I don't know what Dennis would say about that. And I know there may be differences between what Christians and Jews believe as far as the existence of the devil or the afterlife. I know there's differences there that I'm not eloquent enough to expound upon. But at the risk of having a dead end, I don't know what to say about that because, well, I tend to believe it's hands-off. I tend to believe the Earth was created by God and he's He's observing to see if we can succeed with the existence of evil and free will.

Well, that's what my uncle always says. He says, I believe this life is a test, right?

I do believe that, um, and I do believe in an afterlife, much like Dennis Prager says, because without a belief in an afterlife, how can you, how can you believe in anything righteous happening to people that deserve it?

Well, he, he always said, my sanity rests rests upon my belief in an afterlife.

And until I heard him say it like that, I, I couldn't verbally say that feeling that I had as well.

Right. You know, life is such a precarious thing. I was— I woke up in the middle of the night recently, and I was overcome with this feeling of, of a paradox in my life. I feel that I in particular have been given so many extraordinary blessings and also extraordinary tests. If I look at it, and when I say extraordinary, I really mean extraordinary, out of the ordinary. Growing up in this town in LA, you know, in the Palisades, that's out of the ordinary. Going to Harvard is out of the ordinary. Coming into this world, having such amazing luck, being taken under the wing of Dennis Prager and going on the radio and having this show with him, that is extraordinary. Being able to travel the world and go to places that I've been to at my young age, that is extraordinary. But then also, and this is what I was thinking about in the middle of the night, And when I say these things, I don't view myself as a victim in the slightest. I, I view myself as one of the luckiest people alive for my opportunities, for my family, for my parents, for all the things I, I've mentioned, for my health, all those things. But I have a sister with very severe autism. I've had very close family members struggle with addiction. Another close family member attempted suicide. And I was there in the psych ward with him 24 hours after it happened. You know, Dennis, my dear friend, falls and becomes incapacitated. My neighborhood is destroyed in a fire. Those are kind of extraordinary things, certainly. And so I kind of was lying there going, Why such high highs and such, again, kind of crazy out-of-the-ordinary highs? And then also those lows. Yeah, they're very— that's the, that's the better word, extremes.

Yeah.

And the thing that I came to was I have to use my, my privilege and my, the extreme things I've been blessed with to, to help others and turn it to good. But also I feel like God has given me a little taste of a lot of different problems in order to make me more understanding of others and better able to help them. And I just pictured myself someday in the future being in a position where I would meet a lot of different people and perhaps have influence over them, be in a position of influence. And I pictured myself throwing my arms around people who've lost their homes in fires or their communities and saying, I know what you're feeling. Or people who've had a relative become paralyzed or lost a loved one to suicide. You know, I feel like, again, I've been given these little tastes so that I could do that for others. And I'm not— if I could go back, I would not make my sister autistic. I would not make, you know, Dennis this fall happen. I would not have the fire come and destroy this, you know, my community. Of course I would not have those things happen. But strangely, I'm grateful that I understand those lows.

It's important to have gratitude, as Dennis would say all the time. It's also important to have perspective, whether high or low, as Dennis would talk about King Solomon's ring. Um, and it's important to remember another wise phrase by my buddy Dennis Prager: life is relentless. It is going to come at you whether you are ready or not. I tend to believe, and it's been said long before I was born, that God will not throw more at you than you can handle. And that's one way of wrapping your head around the things you have to do and endure and take care of. But life is relentless, and it is not for the weak. And so whether extraordinary or just ordinary, God made all kinds of people, and maybe you are extraordinary to be able to deal with those things, um, high or low, um, whatever the challenges come your way. I do believe, and I've known for a long time, Julie, that you are destined for some greatness And I believe you will carry with you the humility and the gratitude that you speak of when you encounter those things in the future. Um, I don't know how to say that. I've met ordinary people in life, I've met extraordinary people in life, and I put you in the extraordinary category. So may God bless you on your journey, and wherever you find yourself that you remember what you just said, that you keep those extraordinary things with you, be it good or be it bad.

It's hard to forget them.

Right. Right.

Thank you. That's very kind of you to say.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask you a hard question.

Oh, no.

Are you able to keep your happy disposition?

I have, I have. Yeah. Um, I needed to laugh. I needed to—

well, you made me, you made me laugh with the wax lady comment. That's right, just picturing you at a wax place.

I've been through a lot in, in my life, um, as far as depression goes and And I've been to the lows, and I'm not afraid to share my emotions or let my emotions be what they are as they're happening. I find one of the worst things someone can do when they're depressed is to lament on the fact that they are depressed.

As you once say, don't trip, but don't trip about the fact that you're tripping.

Yes, don't trip about the fact that you're tripping. That's just added weight that you don't need to worry about. So I learned one of the ways to deal with, uh, depression or emotions that are in you is to let those emotions be what they are and not to trip about the fact that they are there. Know that, okay, this is within me. It is not a time for me to make giant decisions. It is not a time for me to think about the fact that I feel that way. It is, it is time to focus almost with distraction on things that make me happy or things that I'm grateful for or things that I can look forward to until that, that feeling subsides enough that you regain control of your own emotional system. And so I've learned that. And so I talked about the swing of the extreme loss and the extreme love I've experienced over the past week. And I'm okay with it. If it makes me cry, it makes me cry. If it makes me sad, it makes me sad. If, uh, I need to laugh or I need to take my mind off of it, I do something to distract myself from those feelings. Like I said, I had to turn off the GoFundMe alerts because they literally made me cry. I would see friends of my nieces or nephews put in $10, or someone I've never met uh, Callie, who was a listener of you, and she sent a message, and that made me— it really made me weep. And, uh, I'm okay with that. And you can think whatever you want to think of me for being okay with crying, but I am. Uh, I don't think crying is a weakness. Now, you shouldn't be— everything shouldn't break you. And as a man, you probably shouldn't cry in front of your wife and children if possible. But there are moments in life that just require tears. And, uh, I've been through a lot of that this week. And the other thing I've learned is I'm not 100% back yet. Um, my focus is all over the place. It's hard for me to stay focused on whatever task I'm doing. Uh, and, and coming back to work was part of being healthy. I don't know if I'm ready to go 100%. But I'm here, and for me, part of that was regaining normalcy so that while my, my home life is not normal, maybe some of my work life can be. And through that, I will slowly rebuild, uh, and in the process of doing that, help others that I know that are going through tough situations to rebuild as well. It's going to be a long road to hoe. And, and I am grateful for— it sounds crazy, but I am grateful for what happened.

Strange how that works.

It's really strange.

Yeah. Well, as I said, we love you. And this is— Dennis always said about Dennis and Julie, what makes it different is that it's real.

Right.

And here we are, bearing all.

Yeah.

So thank you so much for sharing, and I'm so sorry again for both of us, but especially for you, because my parents' house is still here, and I'm so sorry.

I'm not special in that way. There are hundreds of thousands of people that have lost everything, and they need your help.

Yes.

And, uh, we need to I think the takeaway for me is, is that lesson. I am forever changed by the goodness and the outpouring of love and the sense of community that I didn't think was there, that I thought was lost. And I know it's not lost.

How touching it is to have people who you forgot you knew reach out and contribute.

It's really, really nice from everyone, whether you want to or not. And it's really weird because you get tired of telling the same story and saying thank you, and you know everybody's sincere. Well, and, and you love everybody, Sean, that's why we have copy and paste.

My sister was saying, she's like, I'm copying and pasting the same message.

Well, I did not do that. I genuinely responded to everyone that I could, and, and it continues. But I think if I could share anything with anyone out there that's paying attention, please try to foster that sense of love and community that exists after a tragedy.

When it's not a tragedy.

Times when it's not a tragedy. And that's what makes America and the world and life special. So please do your best to not get frustrated with your fellow man because— or woman, to PC it up— everybody's going through something. And compassion and help for others makes life worth living. That's, that's, that's passing the test.

I'm going to stitch that on a new pillow for your new home.

I hope it's a MyPillow.

Yeah, we should stock up on some of that. We're in a position to do so at a discount. No, seriously. I didn't mean to be snide. It's a— it's very true. Thank you, and thank you all so much for listening. Please do email me at julie@julie-hartman.com, and we will link the GoFundMe for Sean. Uh, he, he needs it. I mean, not to belabor the point, but losing everything is incredibly expensive. Clothes, shoes, medicine, toiletries, sheets, ever— I mean, just everything. I'm not trying I'm not trying to rub it in. I'm trying to make, make it such that people donate. So thank you for those of you who have, and we will see you soon. Take care, everyone.

Hey, before we go, thank you. And all prayers to you, Dennis. We want you to recover.

Here's something most people don't know. When Warren Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade. It wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888, and over the last 25 years, it's averaged 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Buffett understood early: banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount29.com. That's secret account, the numbers, 29, dot com. secretaccount29.com.