30: 5 Email Marketing "Rules" to Experiment Breaking

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Welcome to the Course Creators MBA Podcast. I'm your host Destiny Kopp and in this podcast we're covering actionable tips to grow your online course business. But before I begin, I want to let you know that this episode is sponsored by my free mini course Course in a Box, which is your plug and play system with templates and videos to get your online course created. You can grab your free Course in a box by going to destinycop.com and this link will be in the show Notes Today we're talking about five email marketing rules to experiment breaking and I have a special guest with me here today. I have Elizabeth Goddard. Elizabeth is an online business strategic and coach and was personally invited to become one of the first four ConvertKit certified experts. When she's not supporting online business owners to dream bigger, reconnect with their message and implement faster, you can probably find her watching trashy TV and answering ConvertKit questions on Facebook. So Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining me here today. The first question I have for you, you love watching trashy TV and I'm right there with you. What do you like watching? And I know you're in the UK so it might be a little bit different there than it is here in the States.

Most of the trashy TV I watch is American. I find UK TV not to be as good trashy, like it's not as drama filled, it's not as silly. So my absolute favorite show and I have no shame in saying this, anything the Bachelor, the Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise. Like my wife and I are probably the UK number one fans of the entire Bachelor franchise.

So my husband probably would not appreciate me telling someone on the podcast, but that he loves the Bachelor shows. Like, he will record them and tape them, and he's like, why don't you watch them with me? And it's just not, you know, for some reason I can't get into them. But man, oh, man, I love, like, the Real Housewives and others out there, reality tv.

I love it. I love it all so much. It's my ultimate, like, idling my mind downtime.

Well, good. So before we begin, I have a ton of questions, and I know we're going to have a great conversation here. Can you tell everybody a little bit about yourself, your business, and your entrepreneur journey?

Yeah. So I'm. I currently call myself an online business strategist. Sometimes I add the word coach in there, sometimes not so much. I prefer strategist. And I'm a ConvertKit certified expert. So at the beginning of 2015, I started as a BA a virtual assistant. And I quickly started to specialize in tech. So I became a tech virtual assistant. And in 2016, I switched my list to ConvertKit. And I emailed ConvertKit to ask them if they had any plans for a ConvertKit, like, certified expert consultant program. And they replied that they didn't have any plans. And then it must have been. It was only a few months later, so I'd already started to do work for ConvertKit. So I started to help people with migrations and create templates and all that sort of stuff. And a few months later, they reached back out to me to get me on the phone and they invited me to become one of the first ConvertKit certified experts. So that was a huge turning point in my business. And I started to do. I launched a ConvertKit club membership that summer, and more and more of my business became to do with ConvertKit and helping people with their ConvertKit. And from that, the more I saw people's businesses behind the scenes while still working as a virtual assistant, in many ways, I started to. It's a really common thing, actually, for many virtual assistants, but you sort of start to know so much about behind the scenes of people's businesses that you almost accidentally start to coach your clients. So they ask you, what do you think you should do? What do your other clients do? And before you know it, you're basically providing the strategy for things. And it took a few years and I started to really embrace that. I'm very good at helping people with their online businesses and telling them what they should do and making them feel better for them. And so, yeah, that's what I do now about maybe about 50% of my business is directly convertkit related and the other 50% is more general online business strategy. So launching, course creation, affiliate marketing, anything that interests me really. And I can teach people to do it simply and straightforward. That's my main thing quickly, simply straightforward. Keep it simple. I like to joke I'm a to do list shortener for people.

You know, I like that though, a to do list shortener because we all want to really, you know, shrink that to do list, but more importantly, focus on the things that are going to drive our business forward.

Yes, definitely, definitely. A lot of people spend a lot of time spinning their wheels on things that don't matter. And I really like pushing people to keep moving and do things faster and pick up, pick up the pace, really. Because people spend years doing things that then didn't work anyway. And I'm like, you could have done that in two weeks, you know, it didn't work and you move on to the next thing a hell of a lot faster.

And that, that really, you know, to your point there, that brings me into one of the points I wanted to discuss today. And I really like how you promote in your business, the focus on experimenting. Because in my world, in experience, you know, marketing is all about experimenting and testing and seeing what works and seeing what doesn't work. And that's going to be our focus for our discussion today. So let's jump in here. So, you know, one of the. We're going to talk about the five email marketing rules to experiment breaking what's the first one? And kind of give us your take on what we need to experiment with.

So before I jump into them, I really quickly want to say that the most important thing for everything I'm about to say is the context is super important. And I want to remind listeners that you know your business best and if something gets suggested and you're like, well, that might be worth trying and that might work, but then you can change this up, how you're trying it through the context of your business. So the context of you, your audience, your offers, how you like to do things, your strengths and weaknesses, like, that's going to go directly into any and all experiments you try. And I find it really frustrating when people try to like directly cookie cutter follow every single thing someone else tells them against their better judgment of their own intuition. Because the things people have experimented with and it's been successful for them, it's been successful because it's considered the nuances and the magic of their unique business. And when they go ahead and teach that to other people, they don't know the nuances and the magic of that particular business. So you have to take what you like and leave the rest. So I want to say that before we jump in, that's an important point.

And to kind of expand on that, I see a ton of really bad advice being given out of Facebook groups, right? Somebody comments on a problem they're having, and then you have, you know, 51. Other people jump in and give their advice. But the reality is, what works for that one business may not work for another because everybody's audience is different and their business is different, just like you said.

And people say things so confidently like, you should do this when what they really mean is without knowing what's going on for you, I might do this if I was in the same situation. And then people take that you should do this as what they actually should do, when all it is is the advice of some stranger on the Internet who doesn't understand, who hasn't even gone to your website.

Right. Or know anything about you.

Drives me crazy. It drives me crazy. So context is so super important.

Very good. So you were going to talk to us about the first one.

Yes. So the first one. So there is an Internet marketing rule, and I say rule with air quotes. This is the online marketers, the digital marketing gurus will tell you that you should only have one call to action per email. So that is one thing you want them to do. That might be to look at the sales page, sign up for the freebie, listen to the new podcast episode, like one thing per email. And I would really encourage you to. To experiment with breaking that rule and having multiple links in each email, multiple things for people to engage with. Maybe not in all emails, but certainly in some emails. So almost more like you can do it more like a newsletter so it's got multiple things in it, or you can kind of do it where there is a main call to action, but there is supporting links. And the way I sort of think about it is like the more links you put in an email, and I don't mean don't go crazy, don't put in links for the sake of putting in links. That's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying the more things people can engage with in an email that are going to build that know like and trust factor with you, any individual email is going to be of interest to a greater percentage of your subscribers, so they're less likely to Unsubscribe. So for example, if you are sharing some sort of story and you've got a blog post specifically that builds on that, you could put that in brackets after. If you want to learn more about this, check out this blog post and then you go on with what you were saying. So you can put in multiple. Multiple calls to action per email is the first thing I would recommend. The rule I'd recommend breaking. First of all, I like that.

And I actually have heard that by. And I don't even remember where I first heard it, you know, is it. But I think I've heard it actually multiple times to only have that one call to action. So I love what you're saying there. Just give them, you know, maybe not in every email, but give them multiple ways to interact with you because they something might resonate with them differently than it does with somebody else.

Absolutely, absolutely. And on trend I have. So this has always been the wisdom. One call to action per email. If you have more, people won't do anything. They'll get confused. Which also implies people are stupid. And I don't think people are that stupid. Like they can click on now it's so easy to, you know, open new tabs for new links. But this is where context comes in. If the vast majority of your audience are reading their emails on their phone phone, then you may not want. This may not be as successful an experiment because it's harder to click through to multiple things from your phone, for example. But more and more online marketer big names these days I have started to see are doing like newsletters and roundups. So Russell Brunson, Pat Flynn, Chris Ducker, they were all doing roundup newsletter type emails where I'm sure in the past they said one call to action per email. So I think the times are changing with our attention spans almost on that.

I love that one. What is your second one?

So the second rule that I'm sure we have all heard is that emails should be super duper plain text. They should be like an email, a personal email to a friend. So no banner, no header, no pictures, minimal links. Like not no social media links at the bottom, just like not too much stuff in them. And the logic for this is that the more stuff you put in an email, the lower the deliverability will be. And that that is absolutely true. So deliverability just means when you send emails to your list, where the email lands. So does it land in someone's primary inbox? Does it land in the promotions tab? Does it land in spam does it some reason go straight to the bin? Does it just not make it at all? Like that's all on the spectrum of deliverability and. But what if. So I find people start to obsess about deliverability and they strip out, the way I see it, they strip out all personality from the email. So they remove the banner, the pictures, the links, the social media stuff and often super plain text emails like that, like as if you were sending it to a friend, isn't actually on brand with what they're doing. And if you're not emailing your list all that often, and I'll come to this one in a minute, but if you're not emailing your list all that often, people aren't going to remember who you are. And if there's nothing to click on, there's no picture, there's no link, there's no reminder, there's nothing to engage with, they're just going to unsubscribe because they're just not going to remember who you are. So instead of obsessing over deliverability, obsessing over what's in the email and what score it gets on the spam checker thing, I, I've never put an email into that. I don't know about it or care, but people tell me sometimes that they do. I would encourage you to send emails that you feel really, really good about. I found this to be true time and time again for myself and my clients. The better you feel about an email, the better it will do. And if you feel good about sending an email that's got emojis in the subject line, you've got your header, your social media links, some gifts, lots of links. Like if you feel really good about that email and you're really pleased with it and proud of it, I think that's far, that will do better and is far more important than stripping out all the personality of it and being obsessed about deliverability.

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So basically just experiment, see what works. But, but your main point is, which I think is a very good point, is make sure your, your brand, your personality comes through. And if, if that is happening, then that's what your audience is going to resonate with.

Definitely. Definitely. Because I'm sure we've all received the super plain text emails with just like one link. And I don't know if you're like me, but I just click the link and see where it goes. Like, I don't, I don't really read. Maybe this is just me, but I don't just read. I don't really read super plain text emails, especially if there's like no bullet points, no bold, no emojis. I just, I find it harder to engage. Like, I feel like the sender is making me as the reader do the work to read it. Whereas if you put in GIFs, if you have it broken up, if you've got pictures in there, different things, it's easier to skim read it and get the gist of if I want to actually read it more properly or click the links or whatever.

Now you mentioned in your, when you were going through that, that you were going to talk about how often we should email our list. Is that something? Is that one of your rules?

It is one of the rules I'm going to talk about. We can do that one next.

Let's do it. Let's jump in.

So the next rule I would encourage you to experiment breaking is being super duper consistent. So when people, people will say, like the gurus of the world, that the way to build trust with your subscribers is to email super consistently. And I find when they say this, they really do mean, like you. You will email every Thursday, come rain or shine. I don't care if you're in hospital, I don't care if you're on your deathbed. You will email every single Thursday. Otherwise you might at least give up and close your business because you weren't consistent. And I think there's two really big problems with being super duper consistent. The first problem is that what tends to happen is people email for the sake of emailing. So they get to Thursday or Wednesday night if they're slightly more organized and they're like, oh God, I need to email tomorrow, it's Thursday. Oh what am I going to write about? And then they just write something which doesn't need to be sent. Like it's just contributing to the noise that's out there. And in many ways it does more harm than good to send an email. I think that emailing for the sake of emailing, because you have predetermined that you will be super consistent by emailing every Thursday, let's say. So that's the first problem. People email for the sake of emailing if they're trying to be too consistent. The second problem is that I found people start to zone you out. This is particularly a problem I found when you very consistently email about a new vlog, a new podcast episode, a new blog post. So let's say that every Thursday email, you email about your new blog, podcast, blog post, whatever. What I have found happens, and I found this, I know I do this for people, but I also have seen it for my clients, is that people stop to open those emails. There's no element of surprise about what you're emailing anymore. You're almost training them not to open because they think they know what you're going to say. So the example I always give of this is there is somebody who publishes a YouTube show video every Wednesday and she emails out about it. You may know who I'm talking about. She emails out about it. And I never open that email on the Wednesday because I think I know what it's going to say. And if I want to watch a YouTube video, I will just watch it in my YouTube videos or I'll listen to the podcast on my podcast app thingy. Like I can consume that in another way. For all I know, she has not emailed about her YouTube video for on a Wednesday for years, but I have been trained not to open it. So there's no element of surprise there anymore. But there is a caveat to this. If you are going to experiment with not being super duper consistent, you do have to actually be emailing your list. This is not an excuse to not email your list. So I don't want people to listen to this and think, oh, well, I've got nothing useful to say, so I'm just not going to email for months on end. The absolute minimum. I think you want to be emailing ideally at least once a month at the absolute minimum. Ideally it's weekly or more. Especially if you use ConvertKit, you can use the Resend to unopened feature. So that can really help if you're not emailing super consistently or super often. But you do have to email your list. But I would encourage you to experiment with being less consistent in terms of the day, the frequency, like mix it up and surprise people a little bit more.

So this was a relief for me because last week I did not email us. I just didn't. I was busy and honestly I just didn't have anything in my mind extremely important to say, so I just skipped it. Now I generally email at least once a week, but last week I didn't. So love, love this particular rule. You mentioned the resends to an Open feature in ConvertKit, is that something you recommend using?

Yes. So the resend on opens feature in ConvertKit, I love it. It can almost double open rates. I find my top tips for using it is firstly wait 48 to 72 hours, not including weekends. So what we don't want to happen is people see both versions of the email in the same like email reading, sitting. So wait 48, 72 hours, not including weekends. Make sure you completely change the subject line. So the reason they didn't open the email the first time was because the subject line was not interesting enough to them. So you want to 100% change the subject line, you're trying again to attract their attention to open it. And the third thing, the third thing I'd say is read through the email and check if you need to tweak any date specific references. So let's say you sent it originally on a Thursday and you say next week I'm doing a webinar on whatever, whatever. Then you resend it to unopens on Tuesday. You'll now need to be like this week I'm doing an email. So just make sure you change any date specific references. My last top tip for resend when opens is don't do it for every single email. Like save it for the emails that you really want more people to see. And the reason I say that is because the open tracking feature, so when ConvertKit knows if someone's opened an email or not is not 100% reliable. So if you're doing it like all the time resending to unopens, the chances are people are going to certainly the people who have like wonky tracking systems are going to get the same emails again and again even though they did open it the first time. So those are my top four tips for resending to one opens.

So I've used in the past. I wouldn't say I've used it a lot, but I've definitely used in the past. But those were great tips. And some of them I wasn't even aware of. So waiting the 48 to 72 hours and changing the subject line, going in and making sure you need to tweak it. So very great tips. So let's move on to rule number four. What's your rule number four for us?

Rule number four that I would encourage you to experiment with, breaking is segmenting. Now I specifically mean like over segmenting or what I call hyper segmenting. So segmenting is all the rage in the email marketing world, like super segmenting. So you like specifically know like so many things and they get super targeted emails. And the example I always give is if you send an email this week and you ask people to click a link in the email if they are interested in purchasing red shoes. So all the people who click that they're interested in purchasing red shoes click the link and they get a tag. If you're using ConvertKit, probably and then in two weeks time you are selling blue shoes. But you don't email the people who said they were interested in selling red shoes, in buying red shoes because they're only interested in red shoes. If you're kind of doing that, you're missing the point of segmenting. So the people who are interested in red shoes are probably also interested in blue shoes. It was the shoes they were interested in more than the color, if that makes sense. So what I would recommend is experimenting with instead is going for more of an opt out approach rather than an opt in approach. And this is super easy to do if you're using ConvertKit. So in general I think you want to be sending to as many people on your list as you can. So an example of this is, let's say you're running an event in New York if you only email the people who you know are in New York. York. Firstly, there are going to be people on your list that live in New York. You just don't know that they live in New York. And secondly, there are going to be people on your list in Boston and Washington and Philadelphia who would love to come to your event, they're happy to travel, they think that would be very exciting. But you've excluded them because you've like over segmented down to just New York. So if I was running an event in New York and this is exactly what I did when my wife and I ran a retreat earlier this year, I would email my full list and say, hey, I'm running an event in New York. If you don't live in New York, don't want to Come to this event. Don't want to hear any more about this. Click here and I won't send you any more emails about it. So what you create is, it's called in ConvertKit, a custom unsubscribe link. So there is a link for them to click, and when they click on that link, they get a tag to say they. You set it up to say they've unsubscribed from emails about your New York event. Or you could set it up. These people don't live in New York, but I'd probably set it up. They've unsubscribed from this specific New York event. And then later emails you send promoting your event, you exclude that tag because those people have said they're not interested. So you want to send to as many people as possible and give them the option to say, hey, I'm not interested, rather than only sending to the people you know are interested.

So I'm thinking about this from a course creator perspective. Let's just say, you know, we have a list that's 5,000. We are going through a launch, right? Inviting people to a webinar. You know, let's just say for whatever reason, they don't want to, you know, participate in that or they don't want any information about that webinar. What you're saying is it would be better for them to use the custom unsubscribe link, which, by the way, I didn't even know exists. So I'm learning a lot of stuff here today. It would be better for them to use that custom unsubscribe list to stay on your email list. They're just not ready for that particular training or that particular product or course that you're offering. They can stay on your list but unsubscribe from that whole series.

Yes, because otherwise what will happen if you send four emails inviting them to a webinar they are not interested in, or 12 emails about buying a course they are not interested in, they will likely unsubscribe. So this I'm sure, I'm sure you're familiar with Marie Forleo's B School. Every year it gets crazy with affiliates promoting B School. And a few years ago, there was no option but to receive all these emails from all these people. And, and now so many of them are getting much more savvy to it. And to save their list, save themselves from bajillion unsubscribers, they're giving the option to be like, hey, I'm not interested in B school. And then they click and then they won't get any more emails about B school from that particular person. So it really can save you unsubscribers. And I think it's also so some people will tell you that creating custom unsubscribe subscribe links is like cutting off your nose or to spite your face or whatever the expression is. So basically you should just promote and promote and promote and they'll unsubscribe if they aren't interested. But I kind of think that because there's this idea that if you send enough emails, people might eventually be interested. And I kind of want to have more respectful relationship with my email subscribers in terms of respect. If they say they are not interested, I'm like, cool, you're not interested, that's okay. I won't send you any more about that. Rather than just hammering them until they buy, you know, I mean, I truly.

Like what you're saying because I've been on a lot of those list when people are promoting B school. And honestly I think I just unsubscribe because I'm like, this is not me.

You would.

Yes. Right. So I think that's. That's a great, A great tip and something to consider. All right, so let's jump into rule number five.

Rule number five, that people. I'm not sure if people teach this as a rule, but they certainly behave in this way as though they think it's a rule, is that you have to provide a certain amount of value to be allowed to pitch or sell to someone. So what I will see is people have some sort of freebie and then they give the subscriber the freebie, the new subscriber, and then they put them in some sort of welcome sequence. And this welcome sequence sometimes stretches weeks or longer. Like the days between the emails get longer and longer, and the emails the welcome sequence, open rates will go down and down and down. It's just what happens. People are most interested as soon as they sign up for your list, for your freebie, whatever it is. So if you feel like you can only sell something after like 10 emails providing insane value, and then people so quietly sell. So in this 10th email, they're like, ps, I have a course. Would you like to buy it? Then they're just not going to make the sales that they could be making. So I would say it's totally okay to sell in those earlier emails when someone joins your list. And you can do this super subtly in like, I love to do IT in pss. So in that first email, when someone signs up, as you're delivering the freebie, you can be like, P.S. if you need help with this right now and you want to go way deeper, click here to check out my course. It's super subtle. People who don't need more support right now will just gloss straight over it. But people who do need that support right now, because people signing up for your list, they think there is going to be some sort of value to them, and they don't necessarily just think it's necessarily going to be free value. They may be prepared to. A percentage of your subscribers will be prepared to pay to have their problems solved or to achieve their goals. And there was still value in the freebie itself. So you can, you can pitch much earlier, particularly subtly, when someone signs up. But I would also say I sell in pretty much every email I send. I call it subtle selling. So there are multiple links, which I've already talked about, to multiple things in pretty much every one of my emails that ultimately will lead to a paid thing. So that could be directly to a paid course. It could be to a blog post that has a pitch for something paid at the end. It could be to something I'm an affiliate for. Always disclose your affiliate links, by the way. It could be to a freebie that's going to then lead into some sort of pitch. But I think there's this idea that you have to provide, you know, value. What is it? Jab, jab, jab, Right hook. I think that's. I've forgotten who says that. Someone says that. But basically people come up with quotas of value they provide before they're like, allowed to pitch or sell. And we, everyone who is in business for the right reasons, which is the vast majority of people want to help people. And you can help people through freebies, but you can also help people by making them paid offers to solve their problems. And I think you can do that way earlier. You don't have to earn the right, right to offer someone a solution to their problem, including if that's a paid thing.

So I love what you're saying and I do believe there's a lot of people out there teaching that you have to give value, give value, give value, give value. And then, you know, six months down the road, then you sell them something.

Then that feels a bit. People who do that often struggle when they do come to sell because they have built this relationship with their audience where they are just providing free value. And then when they offer something paid Their audience will often turn around and be like, wait, what? Why would I buy this? Like, you give so much free value, why are you selling something now? And I think that can be really quite jarring. And I know a lot of people have struggled transitioning their audience that they have given to freely for so long to understanding actually this is a business and you are going to make paid offers, right?

You know, when I work with people in the welcome sequence, I try to, you know, again, it's not a one size fits all business, but I do try to, you know, at least do your free masterclass training or whatever you're doing. If you're running them through a video series or you're running them through like a, you know, automated challenge or whatever, but you need to be pitching your course or your offer within the first few weeks because they're a reason and they want you to help them.

And I think Tripwire products on the thank you page for freebies are a fantastic way to. I'm obsessed with Tripwire products for so many reasons, but they're a fantastic way to set that relationship very early. In terms of I will be making you paid offers to solve your problems and you haven't provided any value at that point. The minute someone signs up for your freebie, they haven't got it yet and you're already making them a super low cost paid offer. It's setting the boundaries of the relationship you're going to have with them, but you haven't provided any value and a percentage of people will buy from that point. So I think people can be pitching and selling mixed in with the value from the get go. From the get go.

And I'm a big fan of Tripwire offers also. I have them set up in my business and I also help them supplement the cost to my Facebook ads and my Pinterest. So I'm a big fan of them. And for those of you who are listening and might not be aware of what a Tripwire offer is, it's basically when somebody signs up for your free gift, whatever you're giving them, a PDF, cheat sheet, checklist, whatever, when they go to the thank you page, there's going to be a page right there that says, basically, stop, wait, I have an offer that you may be interested in. And you go into your offer, which is generally a mini type of sales page. So excellent, excellent point. So, Elizabeth, any last minute tips for the course creators who are listening here today?

Oh, gosh, I feel a bit on the spot now.

Oh, I know. I didn't Mean to put you on the spot. Those five tips were awesome.

I would say have fun with your email marketing. You are sending emails to real people. And I think people forget that when we, when you send emails to your list, you are sending it to a group, but only ever one person will read that email at a time. And what I like to do when I send emails, certainly like significant emails where I'm announcing a new course or a new product or a new freebie. Like emails that have that excitement and invitation for people to join me. I really like to spend some time thinking about some of the people on my list and where they're going to be when they receive that email. So are they going to be checking their email on the school run? Are they going to be scrolling in bed in the morning? Is it going to be when they sit down at the office for the day? Like, where are they going to be when they get that email? And then I like to think about what conversations are they going to have with their loved ones about the contents of that email. So, for example, I like to think of them telling their partner when they get in that, oh my goodness, you'll never guess what email I got today. You know, this person I follow, they're launching this new course and it's exactly like I was telling you last week. I just wish someone would X, Y and Z. And now it's here. They have manifested into my inbox and I'm so excited to sign up and join. Like, I like to think about the real people and their real semi mundane lives who are going to be receiving this because for me, that really removes a lot of the scariness out of sending emails. It's just a real person who's going to be receiving it and reading it and excited to engage with what I'm offering.

Elizabeth, I love that and thanks so much for all of the tips that you gave us today. I learned a lot myself and I feel like I'm, you know, pretty savvy with, with some of this stuff. But can you tell people where they can find you if they want to, you know, learn more and take it a step further?

Yes. So my website is ElizabethGoddard.co.uk and I have, I call it my Everything page. So if you go to ElizabethGoddard.co.uk everything you will find a list of all the freebies I offer in my business and all the paid things I offer in my business. And it's an experimental page, but I've had it over a year now. I think and it's just all the things I do and it just, it feels really clean and easy for me to have it all listed out so people can peruse what they might be interested in.

So it's an experiment that you have found that it works?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

There you go. I will make sure that those links are in the show notes so you can go learn more about Elizabeth Course creators, thanks so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Would love for you to rate and review the podcast on itunes or your favorite podcast platform. Have a great rest of your day. Bye for now.