46: Jodi Bourne: Freelancer to Vacation Rental Marketer & Course Creator

So you're, you know, you're not alone. They're not alone. But tell me a little bit more and let's just break down this sales funnel because I think it's important for people to understand how this actually works. So you are on a podcast. And if you had to do it all over again today, you were on this major podcast. And I, I remember you being on this podcast because you and I have known each other for years and I remember this being such a big deal. So you were on this podcast. Tell me what you would do differently and how you would set this up for that.

So in the podcast, I just, I made the mistake of thinking that everybody was going to listen to the podcast and go immediately to where I mentioned on the podcast. My course sales page was, and it actually wasn't a core sales page. I had a lead magnet set up, which was a guide to, to using Instagram for the tourism industry. And it was a really great guide. It was like, you know, four or five pages. Perfect, perfect guide. And it was my website backslash, I think IG or something like that, Instagram. And I made the mistake of assuming people would actually go to that website or that link. And they didn't. They just Google searched me, Jodi Bourne. And so of course they came to the homepage. So a sales funnel. The way I had my sales funnel set up was just, you know, kind of the basic sales funnel. The course was 1 99, so it was a shorter funnel. I didn't have to do as much marketing behind the scenes. But so they came to the lead magnet page, they downloaded the lead magnet, it immediately sent them to a sales page. On that sales page, I gave them access to the very first video of my course, which was kind of a general overview of Instagram and how to use it for this industry. And then they could either buy from the sales page if they didn't. I walked them through about a three email sales funnel where I tried to convince them to get into the course. The people who didn't get into the course for whatever reason decided not to buy. I moved them into a smaller sales funnel, which was a webinar funnel, where we did. I did a one hour mini class. What I found out was because this industry is so, you know, and I'm not trying to business to market, that's a hefty investment. So they've already, for the most part had a career. They're in their early to late 50s and older. And, and so this was all new tech. Whereas at this point I was to see how to create a profile. They wanted to see exactly how to add an image. All of those things that I kind of discounted as they already know that, but they didn't. So redid my course, talked about. So basically what I was doing is I was speaking above their heads thinking they were ready for this particular lesson. And I learned that from doing that webinar. I learned that because I would ask for feedback and they would say this is all great, but I don't even know how to do this. Many people didn't even know that Instagram was an app that they had to use on their phones. So it just led, as I said, just working with people and trying new things and starting. That kind of led to the changes that I made in the course and in the sales funnel.

And I think that's a big lesson for all of us that, that what we be so perfect. So you have to talk to your people, you have to look at the data and you have to figure out what tweaks to make.

That's right. I mean I'm redoing that course right now. The first time I did it was in June and July of 2018. I hope to launch the newer version of it by the end of this month, although now it's looking like it may be the first of next month. And because there's these routine questions that people ask have been asking when they get into the course. So I had to. Now obviously Instagram has changed a lot and added tons of new features since then. The stories and now the reels and guides. But so that was easy to update. You know, I just added a couple of new videos. But this is strategy. These are strategy questions. So now I've kind of come full circle. The people taking the course have now learned the systems, they've learned how to do them. And that kind of spurred my interest of helping CVB's, which is small town convention visitor bureaus and turned me on to the tourism industry. At the same time I was kind of working with kind of part time working with an online course creator who I really respected, who taught me so much more about marketing in general than just the traditional marketing I'd been doing. And that led me to this understanding that anybody can build a website and use it for their business. And a lot of people don't understand that any business can have their own website and their own, you know, portal to the, to their customer base. So fast forward a couple years I had started, because of the tourism interest, started working with hotels and Vacation rental owners and property management company outside of Austin. And in that, I started networking with individual owners and really started, you know, kind of talking those folks into building a book direct business. Little did I know that that movement was also growing across the entire world. People were getting tired of booking on VRBO, HomeAway, booking.com, airbnb, which leads to the answer to your question. The reason you should do that is there's so many reasons. If you compare pricing, if you just look at vrbo, when you book at vrbo, they're charging you a huge hefty fee for that booking. I believe it's like 12%. So 12% of your fee goes to VRBO. The owner of the property is also paying a fee, a 12% fee or 15% fee, actually. So the cost of that property, because of course they up, you know, they're going to up the rate for themselves, so they're still making money. So the cost of that Property is almost 30% more if you, for you, if you book it on vrbo rather than booking direct with the owner. And that's a huge, significant savings for the consumer. Airbnb is much the same way. I think the fees are a little bit less, but you just don't realize that when you are using the system. And you also don't realize that you don't get to communicate directly with the owner as much. So the systems don't allow that communication at all, really, beforehand. They don't allow you to call and ask questions, those kind of things. And really the vacation rental industry, the folks that are doing this the direct way, they really care about the, the guest experience. They want to be able to provide you with details about your stay and the things to do. So it's a win, win for everybody when you search those places that are ready to book direct, which is why I started it. And, you know, I've successfully helped tons and tons. I can't, I mean, I can't even say how many I've helped do this, so it's very exciting.

So you basically, and I'm going to walk through some of this, you basically help these vacation rental owners and property managers build their own business online. Like so, you know, maybe it's a website, maybe it's a social media presence. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah, that's exactly right. So there's steps to booking direct. And of course the first step is going to be creating a website with a booking platform so people can go to that website and book, you know, and it goes through a system where they pay. There's the guest communication either before or after the booking. So you have a website with a contact form and a phone number, you're able to call the owner and then it goes through that process. So but I started helping people with their social media and then realized their websites weren't very good. They were outdated or they had built them themselves or the booking integration didn't work properly, they didn't have any kind of analytics set up on the system, they weren't mobile friendly. So I kind of, that led me into building websites. I had built websites in the past for clients and just decided I took a course, an online course in really building and optimizing WordPress sites. So that's where I kind of, even though I started with the social media aspect of it, I now typically when I start working with a consulting client or that's a client, you know, I call a consulting client, which one is one that wants me to help them all the way through this system. And the first thing I do is either build a new website or optimize it for them and then, you know, rewrite their listing descriptions, help them with, you know, finding the best photos or photographer, you know, it's just all the way down the system of building an online business.

So in the early parts of your business, you really started out with services, right? The social media services, website, building services. And then at some point you decided to pivot and to offer online courses. Can you talk us through why you wanted to do that, what you were feeling at the time, why you make that decision and some of the strategy behind it?

Right. Well, so I mentioned earlier that I had worked with a course creator when I was freelancing and needed a little bit more income. I got a full time freelance gig with an online course creator who not only created his own courses, but that was his job. His company did was optimize courses for other people. And we worked with tons and tons of industry leaders. There's a company called Now I've lost it Digital Marketer, which a lot of people listening may be familiar with. We actually worked with Digital Marketer in the early days and then some of the other properties that they own and then, you know, just tons and tons of different kind of course creators. And so I was learning the industry, I was learning, you know, Webinar jam back in 2015, which webinar jam as you know, I'm not sure if your audience would. Webinar Jam was one of the original webinar paid webinar systems where you could get people to take a webinar for free or paid. And it integrated all of that with sales funnel, etc. So my goal when I first kind of started was to build a course business. Even though I was offering services, I did that A, for the money and B, I just really believe that that's the best way to get to know your target market is to work with them on the service side first, to get a feel for their needs and their wants and their pain. All of those things that are so important to creating an optimized sales funnel. You have to know those things about your industry. And so I started there and then really quickly added the course part of it. My first course I built in 2018 was an Instagram course. And believe it or not, none of the online courses that you see out there, you know, the typical Instagram, how to do Instagram, you know, even the ones now that have all the templates and graphics included, they don't, they don't talk about the travel industry, they don't talk about tourism. It's a completely kind of new field for them, these course creators, because most of them come from the course creation industry or from, you know, like Jenna Kutcher does the Instagram course, but it's for photographers. So I specialized in the tourism industry in these vacation rental owners, small hotels, that kind of thing. And that course really kind of it struggled obviously in the beginning, but has now grown and I've added more courses to my programs.

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I was gonna say, yeah, that's exactly right. It's, you know, even with this business and having been working in it for a while, I didn't realize some of those pain points that I'm now able to speak to. I didn't realize, you know, I also didn't realize the, the age demographic and the tech issues that my perfect. My, you know, ICA deals with. And that was really important for me to figure out. And 100% led to my growth both as a service provider and also as a course creator.

You mentioned that the Instagram course that you launched in 2018 struggled a little bit in the beginning. Can you tell me, you know, looking back on it, I'm sure you have some idea why and maybe some of the things that you would have done differently.

I think the biggest reason is. And at the time it was pricing, I was fairly unknown in the industry. I had been on one. I had been on one podcast with a vacation rental expert that was known in the field and talked about Instagram. But I didn't have the sales funnel set up at that time. So people would come to my website after hearing me and seeing the show notes on this podcast, want to work with me, but they didn't. You know, that whole entire sales funnel wasn't set up to get them on an email list and get them moving towards a purchase. It was more. I had a contact form on my site and I, you know, they would contact me about help and then that would lead to the service part rather than the course part. But I had a sales funnel. I just didn't think about putting it on my. The front page like a splash page of my website. I had it as when I was doing my Facebook ads, etc. Or when I was leading people to the Instagram course, I would share it. But, you know, again, big mistake. I didn't have the sales funnel set up on my homepage. So when people searched for me that that sales page was there. And that was one of the first things I did when I realized that was, was change that funnel. At the time, I'm not promoting that particular course, so it's not on my front page of my website now, but I will when I start promoting Again.

So let's dissect this a little bit because I think some of the people who may be listening may be making the same mistake. I think it's very common, you know.

If they are the things, the how to's. And now they're coming back and asking those strategy questions. Now they've figured out that, you know, oh, this isn't as easy as it looks, just adding photos. How do I change that to get actual bookings? And so that's. The modules that I've been adding is, you know, using different techniques to get to the bookings. And I also use this. So I also have a group coaching course which is live coaching. And part of that is this bonus of getting the Instagram course as part of that experience. So that's where a lot more of these strategy lessons have come from, is realizing as I speak with my group coaching clients and in this group coaching program that they are ready for the strategy. You know, they have already taken the courses, they've already done some of these things. They're ready to learn the next. The next level.

So I know, and I want to, I want to talk about a little bit about your services, kind of the breakdown. I know that a lot of your. Not a lot, but I know that a good amount of your revenue comes from your websites, where you're building websites for these vacation rental and property owners and you're completely booked out for months and months and months. So there's a huge demand there for you. And I know you're in the process of growing that and outsourcing and hiring people to help you with that. And I know that you have some other income streams. Can you talk about a little bit about your revenue for your business, where the revenue is coming from and where you see that changing in 2021.

Yes. Because I think 2021, as I mentioned to you before, is. I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that this is not to say I haven't been successful and growing my business, because I have year after year.

You certainly have, so don't discount that.

No, and I'm not at all. Because, you know, there's not everybody can have a successful online business, as you know, it is much more difficult in a lot of ways than people think. And that's why I tell everybody the first thing you do when you are looking for any kind of online business. Take some classes, you know, invest in your own education through some of these. You know, like you have that great course on the course creation part of it. But, you know, there's Other, like I mentioned, I took a $2,000 WordPress course because I knew that there was issues with WordPress that I needed to know before I could call myself a website designer. So, you know, those investments that you make are just so, so, so beneficial. But the services, yes, as you mentioned, my website design, I am very, very proud of the websites I've done. I'm also very proud of the service I provide because I'm not just a, you know, here's, here's a website and I made it for you. I really get to know their business. I write much of the copy for their sites because again, they're not familiar with search engine optimization, they're not familiar with copywriting in general and kind of a sales experience within their listing description of their property. So I do all of that. I really get to know my clients. I get to a lot of times they're not branded at all. So sometimes I help them name their rentals or their business. I help them name their properties. I help them determine some of these brand keys and everything. So I really get into the business part and I think I'm appreciated for that. I also offer, as I mentioned, the social media setup services. I don't do routine social media management. It's just really, because they're in, you know, so many specific destinations, it would just really be unreasonable for them to pay me to learn and research all of these destinations. You know, it would each, each industry, each business would be a different place. So I can't really manage, but I do teach them and that's one of the reasons I have this course is I teach them how to manage and I'll work with them in a kind of a coaching, consulting basis as long as they need me to, to help them with that content part of it. And then I also do some, you know, what's called vacation rental specific services. I consult with them on providing the best guest experience, hospitality. I help them get off of the listing sites. I also help put people on listing sites because, you know, you still have to diversify your marketing. You still have to be on listing sites until you've gotten that, you know, 100% booking capability. But so all of those vacation rental specific services I offer as well, and then, you know, there's, there's just so much in this industry that I could be doing. It's a huge growing industry. And one of my favorite services that I do offer is blogging. I love the content marketing aspect of learning about areas and doing some research, keyword research and blogging. For them, that's really second to websites. That's my favorite thing to do.

And you have your group coaching program that you offer.

Yes. So that came out of, you know, people wanting to learn these systems. You know, as I mentioned this book, Direct Movement has grown so much. Next week on February 3rd is Book Direct Day. I think it's the fourth day, which is the day, you know, hosts educate their guests and educate the public about what it means and why they should be booking direct. So that's a huge thing. But there's steps to this. And you know, every kind of marketer or agency has their own different step system, but they're all basically the same. And so people that are in this industry are learning, they have to do these steps, they have to be on social media, they have to have a website. So because of that they're realizing, you know, wait a minute, I have a website. But now what, how do I get people to go to my website? And so that's where they started coming to me in an individual consulting basis, just one to one, which of course is a, is an expensive service. And so I found that many of them with just one or two properties weren't able to afford that one to one thing. And so just as my own wanting to help people, I decided to create this group coaching so it's less expensive for them to work with me in this capacity to learn these things, give them access to all of the videos and all of that so that they kind of get the best of both worlds. They get eight weeks with me where I'm teaching them directly, they can ask questions. They also get the courses to use later on if they need to refer back to anything and then they save money.

And I love how you're bundling in your courses with the group coaching program, so you're helping them so they don't get stuck. But they also have your courses if they ever need to reference it at a future time.

That's right. And so I have a mini course on blogging, a mini course on email marketing, the Instagram course, which I wouldn't consider a mini course. It's a pretty big course for them. But the mini courses are what I consider just bonuses. I haven't started selling those directly yet, but I plan to, like I said, I think this is my year. I plan to get those up and running as a separate purchase later because there are people that understand social media marketing, but may not understand how to email, do email marketing and you know, how to do, you know, so that those courses I've, I'm adding and that's also as you know, I'm a pretty giving person. Not to say that not every, every service provider is, but I really want, I really want people to be able to learn and do this on their own. I'm passionate about the industry and helping people. And so that's why I just feel like if they're going to spend, you know, whatever with me for the group coaching that I can provide those bonuses that really, you know, once they take that group coaching and do those mini courses, they are going to be successful. 90%, 95% of them are going to be successful. And the ones that aren't, I typically tell that to them in the beginning. So, you know, like if you have a vacation rental in Orlando, the chances of you ever getting any direct bookings from your website are just, you know, almost non existence because of that competition. I mean look, Disney World is there. So you know, there's thousands upon thousands of vacation rentals there. So starting a new business and a new website there would just be, you know, not conducive to booking direct. Now they can still reach out to their, you know, previous guests and, and that kind of thing. But you know what I mean, you know what I mean.

I do understand it would be harder for them to build a web. It's just more of a longer term strategy. Right? You get all that right.

It's a years long strategy. And so I tell them that up front, you know, as much as I'd love to help you and I learned that lesson from helping, trying to help a lady in a one to one business in Maui and you know, I just realized this was really going to be difficult and a long term thing for her and I guess we worked together for about four months. And so again going back to that, my original statement, knowing your target market and knowing how you can help them. And so now I know my target market is not in Hawaii because those people just need, you know, they need to be able to afford a service provider that can work with them, you know, all the time.

So Joni, tell me, where do you see your business going in 2021? Do you see the online course part growing? Do you see your services growing? What are your plans for this year?

My plans are actually to grow both. I, like I mentioned, I'm getting those mini courses together, the email marketing, blogging, then I have the Instagram. I'm also going to be doing a Facebook group marketing course, which is a huge thing and a Pinterest course. So. And These are all just basic level courses. Again, they don't go into the strategy because you can get the strategy from the group coaching course. So I'm definitely growing that side of my business, but also the service side. I just have realized that people are willing to pay me for my expertise rather than try to learn it on their own. And I've been working with businesses with more properties, luxury properties, so they're more expensive and really working with what I refer to as vacation rental investors. So an investor is somebody different than someone that has two or three rentals and is growing a business. An investor is somebody that has five to 15 rentals and they're growing their business. And so there's a difference there because of the amount of income they're able to generate. And then I'm also started working more with small property management companies who are managing properties for others in their area. And they also, you know, you typically have between 15 and 50 properties that they're managing. And so again, they have a more income to work with me one to one.

So what I'm hearing from all of that is you're definitely growing your business. You're not going to be able to do all of this by yourself. Are you hiring people? What are you doing?

I hired a great, great, great VA in March who was working part time and we've been able to grow her work. She was completely new to online marketing and so she's learning a lot of these skills that are going to help her. She's a photographer, so they're helping her with her business. But also she has really, really become more interested in the vacation rental business as well. And so, you know, hopefully she won't leave me and start her own agency eventually, but she's been a great help. And then this year because again, I'm taking on more clients. That's my big goal last year and the year before was trying to do one website every six weeks. And this year my goal is to do two websites a month. So that's a big shift for me and I have to have support in that. So I'm hiring. I'm just kind of working with and testing a couple of different agencies who can help me with that beginning setup of the site. So that's, you know, setting up the WordPress, making sure everything is optimized on the front end, doing a lot of those tech things that I just, you know, simply are very time consuming. But then I get to focus on the stuff that I love, the fun, which is working with the clients and getting to know their business, designing the site itself and also writing the copy. Like I mentioned, I love the blogging. And so typically when I'm working with a client, I'll try to convince them to at least start with four to six blog posts on the site. And so I get to do that kind of fun stuff and then leave that, what I call the tech nightmare to another service provider that I can contract out. So I think that's going to be very, very helpful for my business growth. And then also I'm just gonna, I'm just, you know, possibly going to hire somebody on the. To help me manage my own social media. So I'm marketing more because that's, you know, one of the biggest things as a solopreneur is, you know, this constant struggle of where do I spend my time today? Do I spend my time on client work, which is the way I'm making money? Do I spend my time creating a course or working on my course, which may not be generating direct income right now, but hopefully is an investment into my future? Or do I spend money or my time marketing myself? You know, going out and finding those podcasts to speak. Speak on, pitching a speaking engagement to someone, blogging for my own website, doing my own social media. It's those, those typical struggles, you know, it doesn't matter how much you're making, those struggles are always there until you can find the help that you need to grow. You can't grow without, you know, you cannot grow without getting help. And there's other things you can't grow without that we've talked about before and I'm glad to share if you'd like.

Absolutely.

Well, you can't crow without a lead magnet. You definitely have to have something on your website that generates leads that you can put into an email system and follow up with people on. It's just, it is the best way to get those customers. And just remember, even if you're getting people that aren't interested in your services, you're learning something about them just by seeing which lead magnets they download. I have my system set up where I can see when they download it. I ask questions of them after two or three days of the follow up series, if they've downloaded it yet, what they thought of it, et cetera. So you're learning that. And then also, I fully believe you can't succeed without using Facebook and Instagram advertising. It's every time I run ads, I learned more and more about my business. I learned more and more about my customers. I had A mentor that told me one time, there's no such thing as failure in marketing. And I truly believe that. And the reason is because when you fail, you've learned and you've learned how to implement better strategies. You've learned how to optimize your own marketing. So Facebook ads, for one thing, as I said, having a lead magnet, for another thing. And as you know, I'm a huge proponent of Google Analytics. I'm a huge proponent of understanding, you know, what those people are doing when they get to your website, what pages they're visiting, what they're, you know, what they're looking at and maybe ignoring. If they're not spending time on a certain page, then how do I make that page better? So all of that, and that's, you know, one of the things I focused on in December was optimizing my own website to make sure that. That, you know, my customers were spending more time on the site.

And I love what you just said. There. There is no failure in marketing.

Right? There's not. There's not. And, you know, you and I have, like you said, have known each other for a long time. I've cried to you many occasions. Why? Destiny, why? And it's just, you know, it is. It is a. It is a gamble to start an online business. And I hate to say that because I want to encourage people to do it, but it is, you know, you have to, as I mentioned, invest in your own understanding of what I call the game. This is a game. And sure, there are the people that are making, you know, millions a year selling an online course, but there's people like me who, you know, I've tripled my income since 2000, the beginning of 2019. So in 2019, I expected to go into the year at about the same income I had made in 2018. And I had met that goal. Within four months, I had met that goal. I had a wonderful opportunity to speak at a vacation rental marketing. What are they called? Conference. Yes, a conference in early February of that year. And I just got so much from that conference as far as the networking and, you know, my business exploded. I had 10 websites on the books and tons of clients. And at that point, the Instagram course was exploding as well. So this year, you know, I'm. I'm hoping to do a quarter of a million dollars. And, you know, in 2018, I made about 40,000, which is barely enough to, you know, and of course, there's all the expenses associated with owning your own business and running your own business. But $250,000 is a pretty good, you know, it's pretty good income.

I think that's a great income and a lot of people out there would love to have that income from their online business. Jody, what last minute advice do you have for other online course creators or entrepreneurs out there?

Well, one thing I wanted to mention about the sales part of it, about the 250,000.

Yeah, that's a goal.

That's a pie in the sky goal. But I've learned that pie in the sky goals kind of help motivate me. You know, I have a piece of paper on the wall right behind me that says 250,000 equals. And it is broken down into what that equals. It's either, you know, this many websites, this many course sales, this many new clients, all these things that I just kind of scratched out if I don't make that. My other huge pie in the sky goal is to be able to do this and also have time for myself and my family. I've put my, my kids are adults, but I've put myself kind of last for several years as I've grown this business. And so this is the year that even though I want to grow financially, I also want to invest in myself. And so if I don't meet that financial goal, but I'm able to spend more time with my husband on the weekends or I'm able to to spend time in the evenings walking my dog or reading, you know, that would be because, you know, I'll be honest, there's weeks that I work 65 hours. So not working 65 hours sounds like a great thing to me. So I'm looking forward to meeting one or both of those goals in 2021.

I want to unpack a little bit about what you said there because I really liked what you said about your $250,000 goal. And I don't think it's a pie in the sky because I know where you are as we talk every week and it's definitely not a pie in the sky, so don't discount it. But I like what you said about breaking it down to saying it means this many website, this many courses, because that really quantifies how you're going to get there.

Yep. It turns it into a real thing. Rather than just, oh, I'm going to do this. It's kind of like saying, oh, I'm going to lose, you know, 50 pounds this year. I don't know how I'm just going to do it instead of saying I'm going to lose 50 pounds this year because I'm going to walk every day because I'm going to, you know, eat more vegetables, etc, etc. So it just, it just kind of breaks it down. I can look at it. And then it also helped me realize I can't do that. I. There's no, no conceivable way. You know, my average website price is, you know, $2,800. There's no conceivable way I can do 90 websites in a year. There's just no way, even with help. I couldn't do that because of that, you know, that customer interaction that I want. You know, I can't just farm these sites out to people who don't care about the customer. So I really was able to go, okay, well if I add this and, you know, do that, and of course that 250,000 is not profit, it's income. And so I'm going to have to increase my Facebook advertising budget. I'm going to have to increase my contract labor budget, but I'm not going to have to increase them. You know, I will still make substantial amount of that revenue if I'm able to meet that goal. But that's the goal I've set for myself and I can see it coming true.

And I also like what you said about more me time because I think above anything, right, that's important. We can't continue to work. You know, I'm sure there's people out there doing this. You can't continue to work 60 plus hours a week. It's just not sustainable. You have to be able to balance between work, your family and just relaxation, book reading like you mentioned, or taking your dog on a walk. So I think that's a very good goal and a good tip to leave everybody with. Yeah, Jodi, can you tell people where they can find you?

Yeah, my. It's jodybourne.com is my website. I am born is spelled like Jason Bourne, as I jokingly refer to as my older brother, which isn't true because Born is my married name, but people still find it funny. So jodybourne.com and then on the socials, I'm backslash heyjodybourne. I don't know why I did that, but now I kind of like it. So it's Facebook. Hey, Jody Bourne. And Instagram. I'm not sure how if I'm there, but you can find me on my, on my website and search for me all over the place if you want to. I know most of your listeners may not be vacation rental owners, but they may know somebody who is. So definitely send your, any, anybody to me that wants more information about this growing, growing industry. And, you know, investing in it is just, it's really one of the best investments you can make if you're not doing an online business is a vacation rental, buying a vacation rental, if you're serious about it. But so I love it.

You know, it's on my list. So I do know it's on your list. Two years, so I'm saving up for now.

Yeah. Yeah. And if you can book it, you know, even if you're just starting out, want to book on Airbnb, you can make some money. So it's, it's. I'm, I'm hoping. My husband and I own 20 acres and we're hoping to be able to build a couple of cabins on that in the next few years for mommy time. One of the reasons, but also as an investment into our retirement.

Course creators, thanks so much for joining us today. And Jodi, thank you for joining me. I loved your story. I love telling your story, and I know that you're going to do great things this upcoming year. If you guys have any questions about Course in a Box, which is offered on AppSumo, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or DM me on Facebook or Instagram. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Would love for you to rate and review the podcast on itunes or your favorite podcast platform and show us some love there. Have a great rest of your day. Bye for now.