Pinterest vs. Instagram. Which one is the right fit for your business?

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Before we dive into today's episode, I want to ask you an important question. Are you wondering why your hard work isn't reflecting in your bank account? If so, I've got something that could change the game for you. With my digital Product accelerator One on One coaching program, I'm on a mission to help entrepreneurs like you bank consistent revenue without sacrificing your time, time or sanity. Imagine shifting from 90% client facing work to enjoying consistent revenue from your digital products, all while reclaiming your time. You already know that you don't need another course and a one size fits all approach isn't going to cut it. What you need is a strategic long term plan tailored just for you. So if you're ready to build the profitable, freedom giving business you've dreamed of, apply to work with me by going to destinycop.com apply I cannot wait to learn more about you and your business. Welcome to the Course Creators MBA Podcast. I'm your host Destiny Kopp and I help entrepreneurs scale their digital product revenue and reduce the reliance on one on one services or freelance work. My goal in this podcast is to give you a behind the scene view of modern marketing strategies that are working in online businesses.

Today I have a special bonus episode.

For you where I'm chatting with Kate all with SimplePen Media. We talk about the differences between Pinterest versus Instagram so you can determine which.

One is the right fit for your business. Kate also walks us through the three.

Things to do when you first start marketing your business on Pinterest so you can get started right away. Let's jump right into the episode.

And today my special guest is Kate All. Kate is the owner and founder of simplepin Media, a Pinterest management and marketing company. Through their work with over 700 Pinterest accounts, they take a data driven approach to crafting a Pinterest strategy that aims to help their clients and students find their perfect person on Pinterest. Kate teaches thousands of students about Pinterest marketing through various speaking engagements and her podcast, the Simple Pen Podcast. Kate, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super excited about our conversation.

Yeah, me too. I'm excited to chat with you as well.

And today folks, we're going to be talking about how Pinterest is different from Instagram and then we're going to jump in and talk about some things that you can do when you're first getting started on Pinterest. But Kate, before we jump in, can you tell the audience a little bit more about you and what you do.

Yeah. So I run obviously simplepin Media. We do Pinterest management and Pinterest marketing. And we really help people understand how to use it effectively for their business. And some people just don't want to try to understand it, so they hire us just to do it for them. But we also have the podcast too, where we teach people because we really believe that Pinterest is an undervalued platform. People are either confused by it or they ignore it, or they think it's just for weddings and recipes. So our goal is to really help people understand it in a way that's super effective for them and efficient as well, so they can really grow their business.

And I love that and I love what you said about it's an underutilized platform. And I truly believe that too. And one of the things that I did a few years ago when I first started my business, I placed a major emphasis on Pinterest. And I think that has paid off for me from, you know, getting organic traffic to my website, which is one of the reasons why, Kate, I brought you on, because I think more people need to know about Pinterest. So can you tell us if somebody is using Instagram and they might not understand what Pinterest is or how it can help their business? Can you talk about what are the differences between the two?

Yeah, so Instagram is really the place where we go to. I heard somebody call it doom scrolling. Like you just kind of go forever. It's this black hole and we get caught up in other people's lives. We have to specifically go to the platform to follow somebody because we want to know more about what they're doing. We rarely leave the platform. It's a really great place to stay in the Instagram ecosystem. But on Pinterest, we're going there because we care about just what we, our needs are. We're not interested in anybody else. We don't care about who we follow. We have a search intent. We're looking for ideas or dreams or projects or, or travel or whatever it is. But our intent is very much self focused where on Instagram, it's very much other focused. We're consuming other people's story. We're living our own story on Pinterest.

So we're living our own story on Pinterest. But what does that mean for me as a business owner?

Yeah, so what that means for you is that your job is to talk about the benefits, to talk about the how to's of your content. So. So let's say, for example, somebody is trying to share with somebody how to make a full time income doing xyz. The person who's going onto Pinterest is searching for how to make money at X or they're talking about a particular type of job. So what they're looking for is an answer to their problem. They're not starting with I'm going to go look for simple pin media, but they're starting with the idea of how to do Pinterest marketing for E commerce or how do I upload a video to Pinterest, how do I clean up my Pinterest? They're really coming from this intent of answering a problem. They're finding solutions. So for business owners, you lead with the solution first. Whereas on Instagram what we do is we talk a lot about ourselves, pretty much which, you know, people love that for only so long too on Instagram. But we want to be very focused on solutions, strategies, systems when it comes to Pinterest. So a lot of your content has to be really geared towards your benefits and your features of what it is you sell.

So when somebody's coming to Pinterest and they're typing in that search bar, what, what are they typing in versus what they would be, you know, searching for, maybe on Instagram, how does that break that down? How, how does that work for us?

That's such a great question. So when they go into Instagram, like when I open it up, which I love Instagram, I spend way too much time on it. I go there because I'm searching for a person. I rarely search for a project or anything over there. I'm wondering who to follow, what they're talking about. I'm getting caught up in comment threads, whereas when I go to Pinterest I'm putting in how to create a garden box backyard or how to create how to build a fence, how to do a project, very much the same intent that we would go to YouTube or Google. So it's just a completely different intent. Where I, I'm looking for a solution that's really the best way to break it down is, or I'm looking for a dream. That's the other thing too as well, is that people go onto Pinterest because they know in six months or a year, which this is really important to who the Pinterest user is, is they gather a lot of ideas for about six months before they take action on something. And they're, what they put into the search bar over and over are simply, you know, best lights over a Bathroom vanity or something like that. So it's very much the actual product or the actual feature. It's in that search bar. It's really just the questions. It's the same thing. We might even ask Siri or whoever you use on or Google. Right. We're really just asking those same questions.

So I'm going to ask you another question and put a little bit different spend on it. How is somebody searching in Pinterest different from how they would search on Google?

Okay, so I would say Google would be something that's very time sensitive. Like an example last night is my son is getting nosebleeds and it's really random, I don't know why. So I went to Google, I didn't go to Pinterest because I need an answer really quickly and I know Google can get me that answer. Whereas when I'm on Pinterest I'm searching for things like I said that I might not have to take action on for three to six months. I'm allowing myself that room, that buffer in when I'm searching. I don't need something immediate. So that's really the big difference. Plus on Pinterest you get a lot of images, whereas on Google you get a bunch of text. I would also say local is another thing too. If I'm looking for something local, I would be using Google for Pinterest. It's not the best for local people aren't unless it's travel. People will be looking for travel destinations but they're not necessarily, necessarily looking for like a dentist.

And the reason why I asked that question is because the comment you made earlier about how kind of the journey that people I guess take on Pinterest, it's more, more planning and then at some point they'll, they'll start gathering information to make a decision. Do you, can you walk us through kind of that, that person on Pinterest and how they begin that planning process three to six months and then how do they move through that process? And I'm probably not asking the question.

No, you are. No, it's perfect. Yeah, no, this is great because I've walked through this example before. So let's take somebody who's going on a hiking trip to the Cascades in the Northwest. About six months before they decide they're going to go on that trip, they begin to gather hiking tips, travel tips for that location, travel gear, clothing, all the things they can to that board. And then about two to three weeks before they take the trip, they will revisit that board and purchase the things they know they need for it. And they will also bookmark certain things, or not bookmark, but they will make notes like, oh, this place I need to visit when I'm there. Then when they're actually on the trip, they will pull up their Pinterest board to look at best places to eat in the Cascades or best hiking trails. They've saved those because they want to revisit them when they're actually on the trip. So I would say that's a really good example of they're gathering a bunch of ideas, they're prepping and planning six months before they're taking action to purchase, two to three weeks before the actual event or project or whatever. And then when they're on the trip, they'll pull up their Pinterest board to make sure that they're in the right, you know, they, they have the right brunch location or whatever it is that they've saved. Or somebody said the 10 things to do in the Cascades, they're going to pull that up again while they're on the trip.

I love that and I love that example about how people, and I didn't really know this before until I started listening to your podcast and it really, a light bulb just went off my head. I'm like, I get it now. Like, I understand why or how, how Pinterest works now. I guess my next question is, is, you know, from. And everybody's listening to this. They're a business owner, right? So their goal, or one of their goals is to get people to their website. At what point in what you just, just described would we be trying to get them to our website?

Yeah, fantastic question. So there's two places that you would get people to click on a pin to come to your website, and that would be those people that are searching for something specific or the people who maybe have an interest in what you talk about. So if we take Pinterest Marketing and somebody has put in the search bar on Pinterest, Pinterest Marketing, the algorithm looks around the platform to see, oh, what accounts are talking about Pinterest Marketing, as they're using keywords in their pin descriptions. And so Pinterest will subtly put those things in their feed. And if we have something like a how to or a benefits, you know, facing post and that's pinned on Pinterest, people will click on it to learn more. They'll come to read the article on your website. And then there's people who are searching very intently on Pinterest. For something that is exactly what they need. And Pinterest does the same thing by looking for what businesses are using those particular keywords so we can show that content to people. So if their question is how to clean up Pinterest boards, and I have a pin that's specifically addressing that problem, how to clean up Pinterest boards, that's a greater chance of people clicking. So if you've never been on Pinterest before, it's really important to go open up the app or open it on desktop and there's a little search bar at the top, and click on that and just put in words that you think people would be searching in relation to your business. And that's how you see people will engage with your content, is that it pops up in their feedback. They really only look at the image they're not going to read because Pinterest is so image heavy. So you can put text on that image, they can quickly read it like a billboard, decide if they want to come to your site. Hopefully they want to click over and then read your blog post.

So I love that. So let's just say that you've sold us. We're ready to dig into Pinterest. Where would we start? Like, what would we do?

Okay, this is. This is a good one. So here's what I tell people, is that starting is the hardest part. And that's going to be when I say starting. What I want you to commit to is three to six months on Pinterest, and you're going to commit to using it for that time. Because Pinterest is a very slow burn. It takes a little while for Pinterest to figure out what you're about and what your content is and showing it to more people. And so that's number one. Right away. You just commit to it for six months, even a year. Is. Is wise too, as well. This is not a platform that's going to make you feel good. You're not going to get a lot of hearts or legs or dopamine hits like you do on Instagram. So I tell people that right away just to be prepared. Because one of the biggest things we hear over and over again is people say, I started on Pinterest. I was there for a couple of weeks, nothing happened, so I'm done. Don't do that. So that would be number one. Number two is setting up a profile. People often call it a Pinterest profile or a Pinterest page. This is your business page, and this is where you will talk all about what your business is at the top. So it's kind of like a header, and you will do a picture of whatever you want in your business. You can even do a video that's less than like 30 seconds. Use your business name, fill out your description, describe who you are and what you do, and then you have an opportunity to create boards. So we encourage people to think of these boards like categories. It's the things that you talk about, the major categories that you talk about. And so we encourage people to start with five. Especially if you're new to Pinterest, don't feel like you need to create 20 or 30 boards, you simply create five boards. One could be the name of your website. I have one simple pin media. I have one that says Pinterest marketing for bloggers or Pinterest marketing for E commerce, because I know that's what people come to me for. I also know that on our website we have specific categories that are designed for this type of content. So once you create these five boards, then you will begin to add pins. But before I go to that, I want to make sure it's super clear. And if there's any questions about profile or board setup that you have.

I do not. So but I guess the only question I would have related to the boards. So these are basically would be categories in your business that you could post information to, correct?

Right? Yes.

Is there anything that we need to add to the board to help Pinterest know exactly what it's about or how does that work?

Yeah, so when I talked about that search bar on Pinterest and we put in keywords there, underneath, what comes up is search prediction. So these are words that pop up that Pinterest has said. People are already searching these and they're pretty popular. So for our board names, we want to include two to four words. So making it very specific. Like I talked about Pinterest marketing for bloggers, or Pinterest marketing for E commerce, people are already searching that. So that's number one, is to give it a name that's very simple, no more than four words. Then you can fill out the description, which can be one to two sentences, completely describing what will be in the board using those terms, like Pinterest marketing for bloggers, Pinterest marketing for E commerce. And then after that, there used to be a category button. I don't think it's there anymore. But Pinterest then lets you create the board, and that's pretty much it. Pinterest is just looking for the name and the Description because they want to be able to tell the algorithm what that board is about. So it's pretty simple. And then it will prompt you to add pins at that point.

So I get it that that is simple. And so now we're ready to create pins and tie them into. And I'm saying tie them in, that's probably not the right word. But tie them into the blog post or podcast episode that we have for our website, right?

Correct. And now comes probably the most labor intensive part for people is creating the images. I know for me, creating images is not fun for me because I'm not graphically inclined. So you can buy Pinterest templates out there with Canva. We like using that tool of Canva. It's very easy. You can do a free version or a paid version. They have a Pinterest template there that you can use, which is also fantastic. And this image really needs to quickly describe, like I referenced billboard advertising because people are scrolling by on the app super fast. So let's take for example, you have how to set up a backyard fence. You would simply put how to set up a backyard fence with a picture of the fence on your image. Then somebody knows they can click over and learn how to set up a backyard fence. That's really all you're doing with your images is just describing a little bit about what people will encounter once they read your post. So you create the image and you upload it to Pinterest and make sure you link to the blog post. This is the number one mistake people make is they forget to include a link and you add a pin description. A pin description is again for the algorithm. It's describing exactly what the pin is in one to three natural sounding sentences. That includes keywords like how to set up a backyard fence. But you don't want to talk like a robot with just putting in a bunch of keywords. You want to be really specific with just a flow sentence, one to three. Totally fine. Then you hit add to add to board. So you pick a board that. Let's say the board is backyard landscape. You would add it there because that allows Pinterest to know, oh, we're talking about the backyard. So if anybody's interested in the backyard or fence building or we know where to put this content in People's search or in People's main home feed. So that's pretty much it. You create the image, upload it to Pinterest, add a link. There's a few other things in there too, like a title. Title is pretty Much the same as a board name. It's about three to four words and then add the pin description and then upload to the board that it most closely matches.

Now for the title, should you use the title of your blog post or something different?

Yeah, I usually go with that because it's already written and I know it's exactly what I want for my readers.

So let me ask you a question about the pins. And should you create multiple pins for a particular blog post or how would you handle that?

Yeah, I always think it's good to do. We do two to three for our blog posts and what we do is we're testing which ones get more engagement so we make them very different. So let's say you're starting with two. Two. I would make one that has maybe a different image and a different statement and then another one that has a totally different image and a totally different statement. Over time you can start to see what connects with people. Are there certain types of images that you use or are there certain types of words? I always love doing it just because it gives me more reach too as well, with a different type of audience.

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So we post it to the board and, you know, somebody hopefully is going to type in those keywords and Pinterest will show them that particular pin. Let me ask you this. With the boards, should we only be posted our own content there or should we be posting content from other, you know, other type of businesses that might have, you know, content that our viewers would be interested in? What do you, what is your recommendation from that standpoint?

Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, number one, Pinterest has told us it's okay to pin 100% of your own content you don't have to worry about pinning other people's stuff if you don't want to. Now what I tell people is that when they're new to Pinterest and they are also new to their business, they probably don't have a lot of Pinterest images or a lot of content just yet. So it is okay to pin other people's stuff. I recommend you start with somebody that you know and you for sure recommend their content because then you know you're not sending people down a rabbit trail or spam or whatever. So for me in particular, I will pin a few other companies stuff because I just really want to support them. Even though we might talk about the same topic of Pinterest marketing, I know their content is really good. So in the beginning, feel free to add whatever you want. Even at not in the beginning you can add other people's stuff, but just know it's not imperative to getting seen on Pinterest. You don't have to do it. It's really just filling up your boards if you want them to look a little bit fuller than just one to two of your pins in the beginning.

So now we have our boards created. We have a pin or multiple pins that we've pinned to our boards, either our content and maybe some others sprinkled in there. Is there anything else that we need to do at this point?

I would say the one thing you need to do is make a plan for how you're going to be consistent. What I talked about earlier about that six, even nine or 12 months of investment, it's really important that it becomes a regular part of your week. So I even tell people to set aside a two hour block and plan out your pin images. Or you can use a scheduling tool like Tailwind or Planoly or Buffer might even have one too. Canva does have one as well within their platform, but it is a little bit clunky. So these scheduling tools allow you to plan out your pins. Kind of like people would plan out their Instagram posts so that they are going on to Pinterest regularly. They're dripping out content. So that's what would be next in getting everything up and running and getting this train moving. Is figuring out a plan for what's going to help you pin at least one pin a day to the platform. You can do more for sure. But sometimes when I say you can do 10, people tend to get overwhelmed and they're like, what? I don't even know where to start. So one a day is great to different boards in your platform just begin to pin to it. And if you're not going to remember, that's why we suggest using a scheduling tool.

I love that. So one pin a day. And also. And I'm going to throw maybe a little bit of a curveball out there. I know that Pinterest has added some new features lately, one being the story pins. Can you talk about that in. Is that something we should, you know, consider taking advantage of? Or what do you, what do you. What are your thoughts on the story pin?

Yes. I'm so glad you asked that. So, okay, number one, they changed the name. They just did it last week. They moved it from story pin to idea pins, which I actually think fits Pinterest so much better because Pinterest is the great originator of ideas and things that we hadn't thought of before. So they called idea pins and they are simply think of them like a step by step walkthrough. They have cards or what they're called. Not like, like Instagram stories where it's all about you. Again, you're kind of telling people a story. It's very much a. Let me show you how to clean up Pinterest boards. Step one is this. Step two is this. Step three, is this. The great thing about story pins or idea pins now is they live forever. You don't have to save them to a highlight bubble or anything like that. They're another way to engage with your audience. They do not link. That is the frustrating thing. But it also makes sense because Pinterest is trying to keep people on the platform longer and this is their one way to do it. So you take this idea pen, you do five or six cards and people can interact with them, save them, and then they can come visit your profile at the end. I love them. I think everybody should use them right now. It's the thing that Pinterest is putting the most effort behind. So if you want to try them and you don't have them yet, you can Google, I believe, story pin access and there might be an invite page or idea pin access. They're not in every country just yet, but I do know they are in North America, Canada, the US for sure. And they are just going to the UK as well. So you'll see them at the top. If you open up your app, you'll see these little bubbles at the top and those are called idea pins. Look at how people are using them to begin to get creative ideas for how you can use them. You can see also at the simple Pin Media Profile, which is Pinterest@simplepin media Pinterest.com Simplepin Media. You can see how we're using idea pins for a business to business. And if you are business to consumer, you can go check out tons of other people on Pinterest who are doing them as well. But yeah, it's a new feature. I really love it. I'm a big fan and it has helped get, I will say direct traffic to our website because people are watching them going to our profile and then clicking on our website link on the profile.

Oh, so that's. That is interesting because one of the things that I had noticed about them is that you couldn't link to your website like you generally could with the other. Like you could with the other pins. So I find that fascinating that people are actually going to your profile and clicking from there because I've never really seen a lot of traffic, frankly from Pinterest in that area of their platform. So thank you for that. I had no idea they had just changed the name of them last week.

Yeah, and I'll say too really quickly, if people have video, Pinterest is putting a lot of effort behind video. And you can use video in idea pins. We recommend using tools like Inshot or Jump Rope to create them because they are a little bit labor intensive to create while you're in Pinterest. So if you can use an app to create idea pins, those are great too. And you can also use those apps to create video pins. And video pins should be less than a minute 30. It's kind of like a teaser if you have a longer form video, say on YouTube or on your website. But there's a billion video views on Pinterest every day, so it is definitely growing rapidly. So if you have any type of video strategy, you can definitely incorporate it into your Pinterest strategy.

And if people aren't familiar with jump rope, you had a podcast episode where you had, I believe the founder of jump rope on there and you walk folks through what jump rope was and how to use it. Actually, that was one of the ways I had gotten exposed to it. So I think that's a great tip you just gave us. So, Kate, before we end, any other last minute advice for folks that may be considering Pinterest and jumping into it?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that you can do first is just go to the platform and play around with it on the app, search your name, search the type of content that you create or that you talk about just to see what's out there who's already talking about it, and do you see a place for you on the platform that is the best way to kind of demystify what it is, to really jump into it and use it like a user. Which I think is one of the biggest hurdles that we have as marketers is sometimes we lead so much with this marketing that we forget that people love Pinterest. They just love it. It's like a really unique social it's not a social media, but it's search and discovery platform that's different than everything else. And if you've never used it, if you've always kind of, you know, pushed it aside for your business, just go spend 30 minutes on the platform, look around and start to begin to dream about how you can put your content over there.

And that's some great advice. Kate. Can you let folks know where they can find you?

Yeah, you can go to simplepinmedia.com and at the top we have links to our podcast, our blog post, and we have a ton of free resources, too, as well. And then we have two communities for ads or organic Pinterest management as well. So simplepinmedia.com and thanks so much, Kate.

For joining me today. I loved our discussion on Pinterest. I love Pinterest and I'd love to talk about it all the time.

Yeah, you bet.

Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Kate. If you love the show, we'd appreciate.

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Have a great rest of your day.

And bye for now.