How to Avoid Hiring or Working for a Narcissist

Hey there everybody, and welcome to this presentation on how to avoid hiring or working for a narcissist. I'm your host, Dr. Donnellice Snipes. After my last video on how to avoid dating a narcissist, several people indicated, hey, that sounds a lot like one of my co workers or one of my employees or my boss. So I figured I would do a presentation specifically on how to how to avoid narcissism in the workplace. Basically, it's going to follow a similar format. We're going to explore what attracts a narcissist, how you can spot one, explore why you might be drawn to a boss who is a narcissist, or to hiring someone who's a narcissist. And tips for early on in the relationship. Even though it's an employee employer relationship, it's still a relationship. My old boss used to remind me that nobody is perfect. Nobody can be the expert at everything. So it's important to hire people who may be smarter than you about their particular job. You are the expert at being a supervisor. You are the expert in your field. Hire people to do the jobs that you're supervising who are experts in their field. There's a difference between intelligence and confidence and narcissism. A narcissist is certain to undermine your team, take credit for everyone else's accomplishments and blame everybody else for mistakes, not taking any ownership of their part in it. So someone who is intelligent or extremely talented may be very confident, but if they make a mistake, they they are likely to own their part. If someone else has a success, they will attribute the success to that person and not try to steal their limelight. So that's where we start seeing the difference between healthy self confidence and narcissism. What do narcissists seek? Well, they look for somebody who will make them look good. If you're an employer, you may be looking for somebody who will make you look good. And that's often going to be somebody who is bright, intelligent, talented and good at their job. Which is where it can get a little bit hazy. You know, you're looking for somebody who's intelligent, but someone who is also a team player. Narcissists are not narcissists. Look for someone who will praise them excessively, constantly giving them feedback about how wonderful they are, maybe even starting in the interview, expecting the interviewer to fawn all over themselves. Or if we're reversing the roles, a narcissistic supervisor may expect the interviewee to fawn all over them and tell them how wonderful they are and how amazing they are. They want somebody who's going to validate their perceptions, somebody who is not going to question their judgment, question their decisions, question their thinking, and someone who will overlook all of their flaws. You can see how this could be extremely toxic and problematic in the work environment. Whether it's a supervisor or who doesn't want to be challenged under any circumstances, or an employee who doesn't want to be challenged under any circumstances, and someone who makes it clear early on that they are unlikely to be abandoned. The employer who makes it clear early on, we want to hire you. We will do whatever it is we need to do to get you, to keep you on board. That is telling the potential narcissistic employee, hey, you got the bull by the horns here. You're the one in the, in the driver's seat. A narcissistic supervisor is going to be one that expects that the employee says, this is the place I want to work. I will do whatever. I will start out, you know, doing line staff work and eventually work up. I just, I really want to work here. I really want to work for you. When somebody is eager to be in a position at work, whether it's a supervisor who is eager to hire an employee or an employee who really wants to be hired, that eagerness can be exploited by the narcissist. Narcissists will do whatever they need to do to get you hooked and then switch, it becomes about them. So I call it the bait and switch. Narcissists. If we're talking about narcissistic employers, employers feel you're hooked once you have to quit your other job and maybe you've even moved once you've made significant life changes and it's hard to go back, it's hard to unwind, then you're hooked. Then they have you. Narcissistic employees may, once they get hired, try to make themselves indispensable. Now remember in the U.S. in most states, that first 90 days is a no fault period where people can be dismissed without getting negative repercussions from the unemployment insurance system. So during the first 90 days, a narcissist employee may be on their best behavior because they can be let go for any reason. So they try to make themselves indispensable. Once the employer has is past that 90 days and they could potentially take a hit on their unemployment insurance rates and they've already committed all this time and training, then the employee feels a little bit more secure to let their true colors show through. Tips for the interview, you cannot always spot a narcissist from the first meeting. That's true, and we're going to talk about what to look for during that first 90 days. But in the interview you can start to get an idea. If the if you're an employer and you're asking a potential employee your interview questions, if that person's a narcissist, it will come out in their answers. If they say they're a good team player or have good attention to detail, or they prioritize customer service, ask them for examples. They go in there knowing the boilerplate stuff that they're supposed to say, I'm a good team. The employer may ask, you know, do you play? Do you work well in teams? Yes, I'm a great team player. Okay, tell me how. Ask those follow up questions. Even give a scenario of your own. If this situation were to happen, how would you handle it? Being a good team player, or if this situation were to happen, how would you handle it? In a way that shows that you prioritize customer service? So ask for examples of how they've done it and then potentially give them a scenario of your own employees. If the narcissistic person is the hiring supervisor, again, ask follow up questions. In interviews, you're expected to ask questions. If the employer says, oh yes, I agree, work life balance is so important, well then you want to ask, how do you implement that here? How do you ensure that the people under your supervision have work life balance? It's easy to say, yes, I do something if you don't have to provide any details. If they say you will not have to do a particular task, ask how they will get it done. Maybe they're hiring you for a position and you say, I am great at these skills over here, but this particular task is not something I'm at all comfortable with and would be a bad fit. And if they say, oh, don't worry, you won't have to do that task, we'll work around it. It's important to ask how. Make sure that there's actually an answer and it's not just a well, you won't have to do it during the first 90 days and then we'll start making you do it. Define what you want and need in an employee or an employer. Before the interview, know what you're looking for. That will help you narrow down what's important to you and be able to ask important follow up questions. Learn how to spot a narcissist by listening for the vocal warm up. As I'VE called it before the me, me, me. If it's an employee, the employee will say, let me tell you how awesome I am and all the ways I've been indispensable to other companies. When they describe successes that they've had at other companies, they won't mention anybody else unless it's to blame them for holding them back. They will only talk about me, me, me. If the employer is the narcissist, then you can hear it when you ask them about the company. What they report to you should be ultimately about the company's mission. Like, we have a great team here. We work hard, we play hard. We have these accomplishments. You hear? We, we, we. Not me, me, me. How do they portray other people? A narcissistic employee will blame everyone else for their mistakes, fail, failures, or their need to leave their prior positions. It's all their fault. They picked on me. They didn't get the job done. They didn't communicate well. Now, of course, some of that may have happened, but it's also important, number one, that they own their part in it. And number two, how much, especially early on, do you really want people complaining and gossiping about other people, whether it's their past employer or their relationships or even the people that they work with now, you know, that's a red flag if somebody starts playing the blame game really early on, especially if they accept no responsibility. A narcissistic employer talks disparagingly about other companies, other supervisors, or even other employees. They may say something like, no matter what I do, that person won't listen to me, or nobody listens to me, no matter what I do. It could be I'm trying to play both sides of this. It could be that they don't have good supervisory skills. But what I'm getting at is you want to listen for the supervisor. The narcissistic supervisor will blame their subordinates. They will blame even their superiors for anything bad that happens and won't take responsibility. And they talk about other people in disparaging ways, as if they are lower than them or less than them. Don't fight for the relationship right at the beginning, and you may be going, well, I can see how that might apply in romantic relationships, but how does this apply at work? Well, for the employee, the supervisor will echo your sentiments about everything, promise the ideal work environment prior to hire, and may even talk about the position being temporary or emphasize a trial period. So a narcissistic employer is going to try to butter you up, make you feel like there's A connection, but then they're going to throw in this little thing at the end of, but you know, there's a trial period or this is only an internship. Most people aren't able to move from an internship into a paid position. And some people just see that as being transparent. But other times, a narcissist will use it to see, okay, how hard will you work? How hard will you beg to try to get this position you want? If I tell you that it may not be a permanent position, how far can I push you in order to get you to do what I want? In terms of narcissistic employees, they may make demands and the employee is saying, if I don't get to work from home, if I don't get to have a four day work week, if I don't get to do this, then I'm going to quit. And each time that demand gets rewarded. The employee may be happy for a little while and then as soon as that happiness wears off, they say, okay, it's been a little while, let me push for something else. And that's the narcissist coming out. It's not about how does this impact the company. It's about how far can I push this employer, the supervisor, to get what I want? How do they respond to a difference of opinion? Are they patronizing or dismissive? If you're working on a project and there's a difference of opinion, does the narcissistic person hear it and consider it or do they immediately shut it down? Do they refuse to hear it? Are they condescending about it? You know, how do they respond? Person who is very intelligent or very talented and leading a group may have a lot of great ideas, may have the right ideas, and you may have another idea that doesn't quite hit the mark. But if they are not a narcissist, they will hear your idea and at least consider it. If they are a narcissist, you will get a lot of blowback for contradicting them. How dare you even think that you're smarter than I am. The narcissistic person, whether it's the supervisor or the employee, needs to be the center of attention and receiving frequent praise. The employee and the narcissistic employee will get very downtrodden and their work will start to slip and they may start throwing tantrums if they're not getting enough attention. The narcissistic supervisor may become withdrawn or hypercritical if they're not getting enough, enough praise. So they may start becoming resentful of the people that work for them. If those people are not fulfilling their need for constant praise and attention, the narcissist will habitually point out your faults. And as a supervisor, I am open to hearing constructive feedback from my supervisees. But if my supervisees are habitually pointing out and nitpicking every single one of my faults, then I'm going to question whether it's effective. And that might indicate some narcissistic traits. It could indicate a lot of things, but it is one of those things. All of these things added together give you a picture of a pretty toxic employer or employee. Any individual symptom, if you will, may be the result of many things. So it's important to step back and look at the big picture. The narcissist has a sense of entitlement. They believe they are the smartest, the best, and should be most powerful, should be the one that's promoted and tend to be very difficult to work with if they don't get their own way. The narcissist will not take responsibility if they make a mistake or hurt someone's feelings. And you can see how this can go either way, employer or employee. If you are in a situation, either as an employer or an employee, where you're noticing these things, it's important to journal them so you can go back when you're not in the heat of the moment and you can look and see, is this something that's happening a lot or was this person having an off day and they were just being insensitive today? So it is important to kind of keep a log for yourself. It's not necessarily to go anywhere, but it's important to keep a log for yourself. So if you start to get the feeling, well, maybe this person's a narcissist that I'm dealing with, you can look and check it against facts. Maintain yourself and your work life balance. Narcissists will dominate and isolate the employee. The narcissistic employee will create crises and expect the supervisor to be available 24,7. They may all of a sudden start worrying about something that's going to happen or get angry about something somebody did and call their supervisor or email their supervisor at 10 o' clock at night. That's not okay. You know, we need to have good boundaries. They may. The narcissistic employee may start cajoling others to make the supervisor look bad. They may start trying to gain favor with their colleagues and the supervisors, colleagues, you know, other supervisors, and complaining about them dropping these hints. You know, I work For Sam and I, I just really wish he was better at communicating. I could do my job so much better. And it starts tainting everybody's view of supervisor Sam. The narcissistic employer also creates crises and expects the employee to be available 247 and they may start becoming extremely critical and alienating the person from their co workers. The narcissist has no problem putting people down and gossiping about people. The narcissist is not going to call you back behind closed doors and say, hey, you know, it seems like we've got a problem here, you know, let's see what we can do to get it fixed. You hear? I keep saying we. That's not how a narcissist operates. The narcissist will say, I've got a problem with you, you need to do this, you need to do that. And the narcissist, if whatever you're doing is making them look bad, they will make sure to go around and tell everybody else, well, it's not my fault this is happening. It's Joe's fault that he didn't get this done. And I'm working with him as best as I can. But you know Joe. So both the narcissistic employee and the narcissistic employer will try to alienate people from their support systems, try to cast them in a negative light to make themselves look better. Notice energy balance and reciprocity. Do they offer to pitch in? And I remember, you know that boss that I talked about in the beginning where place I used to work was a residential drug treatment center and we would regularly have to do urine screenings. Now we made sure that only biologically female test or observers observed the urine drops of the biologically female clients. And there were a lot of times where there were no men on duty except for my boss. And my boss was actually at that point two steps above me. But he and his three piece suit would walk into the bathroom and observe a urine drop. With the best of them. He pitched in. He was a brilliant, is a brilliant man and very successful. But he had no problem doing anything that he asked his staff to do. That's not a narcissist. A narcissist says, sounds like your problem, you better figure out how to fix it. They won't pitch in and they will expect that you get it done right and they will expect that you make them look good. And if you don't, there will be hectopay. Do they stay in their lane. Remember I said it's important as an employer to Hire people that are experts at what they do. You know, hire people that are good at their job and you as the supervisor are good at your job. It's important to notice if you have employees trying to usurp your authority and become supervisors, they're getting over into your lane as the supervisor. Likewise, it's important to recognize if you are stepping into their lane. I had a supervisor who was talented in their own right. However, they had absolutely no clinical training and they would often make edicts, not even suggestions. They would make clinical decisions and edicts about patient care that I vehemently disagreed with from a clinical standpoint. So they were stepping over into that clinical because they thought they knew better than the clinical staff what should happen with a particular client. So that's an example of narcissism at work and not staying in their own lane. They think they know everything and they know best. Recognize the power and control cycle. During the honeymoon phase, the narcissist is, is baiting the other person, making sure to get them hooked. Or they may have recently got their own way. So they're kind of relaxed right now. It's like, okay, I get to work from home four days a week. That's awesome. I'm happy with that. After a little bit of time, they'll start to become unsettled, especially if other people start getting to work from home and they're not in a special position anymore. Then they may say, okay, time to move that boundary again. I need to ask for something else because I'm special and I should be treated specially. And this is true for employers or employees. They will move that boundary again. Then comes the eruption when they don't immediately get their own way. They may threaten to quit if they are an employee, or they may threaten to fire you if it's an employer. So there's that blow up that happens and then there's reconciliation where generally if you're dealing with a narcissist, the behavior is enabled. The non narcissist gives in and says, okay, you can have your own way, just let's get rid of all the distress. There may be a little bit of a compromise, but. But if any, it's very minimal. So then the narcissist is happy again. They feel empowered, they feel emboldened, they feel entitled. And the cycle repeats. If you are attracted to a narcissist, explore why. If you're attracted to hiring people that are narcissists, or if you're attracted to supervisors who are narcissists, explore why. Remember I said that narcissists are often very intelligent, charismatic individuals. So they can have attractive qualities to them superficially. But as soon as you start to really get to know them, it can become a devastating situation. If you're an employer and you tend to hire narcissistic employees, do you need a project? You may see potential in the employee. You may see them as a diamond in the rough. They're really smart, they're really great at what they do, and they're just a diamond in the rough. I can shape their behaviors and make them a good team player. I can get rid of that. Those narcissistic tendencies. No, probably not going to happen. Yes, it's important to hire bright, talented people, but it's also important to look at other characteristics. How is it going to impact the team? How is it going to impact the organization? How is it going to impact you to have to work with this person on a day to day basis? Are you enamored by intelligence? And employers and employees alike may be enamored by one another's intelligence. There's nothing wrong with that as long as the person with this excessive intelligence or excessive talent is not a narcissist and takes into consideration other people's feelings and gives credit where credit is due transference. This person, this narcissist that you may hire or maybe seeking out as a supervisor may resemble someone from your past past from whom you need approval. Maybe there's a narcissist in your past that you never quite got approval from, or maybe they rejected you in some way and you're trying to replay that situation. Some people get into these situations because they don't know any difference. Don't all bosses or employees act this way? And unfortunately it is the case where, where if you've worked in toxic environments, especially if those were your initial work experiences, you may not realize that. No, that's, that's not exactly how it works now. It's not exactly how it works on TV either. I've watched, you know, lots of different TV shows and I see these well functioning, well oiled teams that are compassionate and supportive of each other and you know, have each other's back inside the office and out. And most of the time that's to the other extreme of unreality. What you're looking for is something in between. But it's important to define for yourself. Like I said earlier, examine what does a. What do I need from an employer or an employee? Are you getting into these situations because you have low self esteem? You deserve it as an employee, you may be thinking, I should be grateful to have this job or this opportunity because I'm not the smartest, I'm not the brightest, whatever. Maybe you're attracted to working for narcissists because they are so intelligent and you believe that because they are so intelligent they deserve to treat you badly and that's not true. Or domination and control. As an employer, do you look for narcissists because to hire because you want to take charge, subordinate, you want somebody who you can hire, you don't have to worry about, and maybe they'll manage everybody else under you. As an employee, do you look for a narcissistic boss because you want somebody to be telling you what to do and micromanaging what you're doing? Now, there's nothing wrong with wanting a strong boss or a strong employee as long as it's a healthy, dominant, not a pathological, critical, blaming situation. Or maybe you're attracted these situations because you're afraid to be unemployed or without an employee in that position. An employee might rather be miserable in this position than unemployed. So I want you to look at the facts of this situation. Especially in today's economy, you may not be able to get the perfect job, but do you need to work for a narcissist? I mean, there's a lot of jobs out there. Employers. Would you rather take a diamond in the rough that may reduce morale and cause other people to quit and give you all kinds of headache and heartache, or have the position vacant? And I know there were times where I was trying to hire and I was, you know, kind of desperate to put a warm body in a position. But ultimately I knew it was important to step back and reflect. Is this person going to work well with the team? And is this person somebody who's going to be happy in this position and stick with us? Narcissism takes on many different forms. Core features involve needing to be the center of attention at all costs, needing frequent praise, inability to handle criticism or dissent, and a lack of remorse or empathy. So again, you can have somebody who is really talented, but they don't have to be the center of attention. They don't need frequent praise. They can handle criticism or differences of opinion. And they do have remorse or empathy if they make a mistake or do something wrong. So that's the ideal. You want somebody who's really awesome at what they do and also really awesome at working with a team. The narcissist doesn't being in a relationship with a narcissist can initially feel exhilarating. This is the bait time. This is the honeymoon period where it feels so awesome. But that is quickly replaced by anger and despair. This is the switch part. And in the office environment, in the work environment, this anger and despair is often not only experienced by you, but also by the team, customers, and other stakeholders. So it is important to, if you are interviewing and you think you may be hiring a narcissist, to really be aware of what behaviors that person brings and how it might impact your team.