Demystifying Real Estate Investing - Nicole McNair

You're listening to Finances Demystified with Dominique Broadway, the podcast that provokes the conversation of money, demystifies all your finances, and shows you how to bring all of your dreams to reality so that you can live your very best life on your own terms. Welcome back to another episode of Finances Demystified with Dominique Broadway. I'm so excited for our guest today, Miss Nicole McNair, because A lot of you are really interested in getting into the world of real estate investing. I know I am personally. It's a goal of mine for the next 12 months or so. And she has completely figured out this whole real estate investing thing. I'm so excited to be able to talk to her, see how she was able to get it done, get her first property, second property, and so on from there. So Nicole, how are you today?

I am wonderful. How are you?

I am great. I'm great. I'm so excited to have you today because, as you know, like I said, so many people are really interested in getting into real estate and just can't figure out how. So let me read your bio first. Totally forgot about that. I was so excited. So first, Nicole McNair is a Washington, D.C.-based real estate investor and licensed general contractor. Ms. McNair has been investing in real estate for close to 15 years, beginning as a part-time wholesaler and transitioning into a very active rehabber and owner of multifamily properties throughout the US.

Yes.

I don't know how old you are, but the fact that you've been doing it for 15 years is kind of surprising to me. I definitely thought we were like the same age, but anyway, we'll talk about that. So tell me, Nicole, like, how did you, how did you get started in real estate?

Especially at such a young age? I've always had an interest in community development. So first of all, thank you for having me on the show. I would be remiss if I didn't start by saying that. Very grateful. So I actually grew up in an area in eastern North Carolina while I was in high school that was affected by a very damaging flood. And the flood actually destroyed large communities, like planned communities, subdivisions. And for a few weeks, many of my classmates and some of my friends were displaced. And I remember in high school, I started working for the community development corporation that was tasked to rebuild residential housing in the area, affordable residential housing, so that the flood victims can transition from the federal housing that was provided as emergency housing into sustainable housing that was affordable. And that process, I fell in love. I fell in love with building community. I fell in love with giving people hope when it— as it relates to homes, you know, because I— it was the first time that I had a chance to realize how important a house was to anyone, because it was traumatic to lose to lose family members, and to have individuals not be able to return to a home that they had called home for over, you know, 20, 30 years as a result of a natural disaster. So that kind of ignited my passion for community development and understanding the importance of housing. And I always, I've learned in my career that serving people and serving profit are both important to me. So I can't serve one without serving the other to some degree. And so with that said, as much as real estate investing is seen— it seems to be a very sharky, aggressive, capitalistic approach to earning income and starting a career, my initial introduction to real estate investing was the byproduct of a natural disaster. And I've always appreciated the opportunity to help a person, you know, out of foreclosure when they are hopeless, to help a person find more affordable housing when they when it's necessary. That has been helpful to me throughout the years, and it started as a result of that experience.

I love it, and I love how you kind of took something that, that was a disaster and it helped you to determine your, your passion and essentially, you know, I guess be able to, you know, create a life for yourself as well, which is, which is dynamic. Um, so tell me with, I guess, what was that first— I know you started out, um, as a part-time wholesaler. So first, what is wholesaling?

For people that don't know. Excellent question. So wholesaling is the process of essentially brokering a real estate transaction, but you're not purchasing the property. So as a wholesaler, you are placing the property under contract. Um, you've gotten to negotiate the property, um, and ensure that there's equity and that you're buying it at a discount. But you also have given yourself the liberty to assign the contract to a third party so that you don't have to buy the property or you don't have to perform under the stipulations of the contract, but you can actually assign your rights to purchase the property in the contract to another purchaser, and that individual will pay you your— for your assignment rights. And so that's called an assignment fee. And wholesalers, they create profit through assignment fees where they're able to acquire a property, negotiate a great discount on the acquisition of the property, help an individual prevent foreclosure or get out of whatever circumstances they may be in. And then with the contract that's used, they give themselves the ability to sell their assignable rights, their rights to the contract, and they assign those rights to an end buyer who's known as the cash buyer. And that cash buyer will end up paying not only for the acquisition price but whatever the assignment fee is that the wholesaler is charging for that property.

Wow, that's awesome. So that seems like a really easy kind of entry point to getting into real estate investing.

It's definitely a more simple entry point because you are eliminating two myths. You don't need cash, you don't need perfect credit. So you really just have to understand the skills. But there is, there is something to be said about successful negotiators and successful wholesalers because you still are spending a lot of energy and sweat equity in finding the deals, making sure that you're finding exclusive deals that are off-market, making sure that you're developing a rapport with your seller and getting the properties under contract at a price that's attractive to a cash buyer. So it's something that I don't recommend that people do without guidance because any— every contract isn't marketable. But you have to make sure that you've negotiated the property and that the contract is marketable because that's the only way you can have it assigned and transferred to a cash buyer.

Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So you started out doing the wholesaling and then you transitioned into rehabbing. So, you know, I know when we talked a couple weeks ago, we were talking about like those rehab shows, how, you know, at the top of the show, they, you know, they pick between like 3, you know, crappy looking houses, all of a sudden they pick one and then 20 minutes later, it's all completely fabulous.

No one's— Yeah, no one's— Nothing. You don't have to, right? Yeah, that's tedious. Every nail And then they realize after, oh no, there's a crack in the foundation.

I'm like, this is not real.

This is not real.

So tell me, how did you get into rehabbing? Because I know it's something that, like I said, with these shows on HGTV, which I ain't gonna lie, I could totally sit and watch those shows all day long. They're amazing. They make it, they are amazing. They make it seem very easy. But as you know, it is not easy. It does not take an hour. It takes, it can take months. It can take even longer to get your rehab to where it is to actually be able to put it back on the market. So can you tell us about that experience? What was the first property you bought? And what was that like from a financing standpoint to a rehabbing standpoint?

Yes. So a little bit more about my background. So I told you about my experience with the CDC in high school, post-college and in college, I worked for developers. So when I transitioned out of college, my responsibility was a project manager bringing large-scale condominiums out of the ground. So I've been around construction for 15+ years as well. I started wholesaling I started wholesaling because of my corporate career being in development. I knew that the condos that we were building were super luxurious and very high-end. And so I would find the distressed properties around my condo developments and wholesale those properties. So that's kind of like how my introduction— even pre-construction condos, we would— they would give me the opportunity to wholesale because I've always had that ambitious entrepreneurial nature even while working. And so they created opportunities for me to kind of hone in on those skills. So transitioning into development or construction wasn't as far of a reach for me because I've spent all of my corporate career on construction job sites, hard hats, you know, safety goggles, working with inspectors from the county. So it was just to do it on a smaller scale. The first project that I took on as a rehab project was a few years ago at the National Harbor in the Oxon Hill Market. And it was a disaster because I decided to do a joint partner, a joint venture with another investor, and they were going to split the construction costs. And we endeavored to do it leveraging our savings and not really involving ourselves with hard money lenders or private lending, because at that point, the private lending market had somewhat— was depleted because of the change in the economy.

And really quickly, what's a hard money lender for people?

So a hard money lender— that's an excellent question— is a private lender a lender who will lend to an entity, not a person, and they lend based on the value of the asset and the acquisition price that you've negotiated for that asset. So hard money lenders, they will say, okay, you have a home and it could be worth $300,000 and you've been able to acquire it for $85,000 and it'll take $50,000 to fix it up. We like those numbers. You're in at a low price even under construction with the construction your expenses is still low, we'll fund you to get your project done, but we will ask for points, which is typically 1% of the total loan amount, as well as interest in exchange for us taking the risk and partnering with you on the project. And it is, it has been around from since the beginning of time. Um, hard money loans or private lenders are available and very prominent in the real estate market because real estate is such a high-risk industry. You have to have multiple exit strategies. So private lending is very important to real estate investors because everything can't be refinanced quickly and you need to be able to transition out should you be— should that be necessary. So there, where there is a negative connotation that most people have who are new to real estate investing about hard money lending because of the cost and the interest and the points, where they should— what I tell everyone to consider is consider that your bank without any experience in real estate investing may not lend you $150,000 to make $100,000 in 6 months to a year, but your hard money lender will. And if he charges you $7,000 to $8,000 to do that, okay, it's not a traditional loan, it's not a government-backed loan, but it is a business transaction, and that's the cost that they've assessed for their risk. And it's something that you should just consider as a business expense. But that's what a hard money loan is. A hard money loan.

Good. That's good. I know people kind of throw that term around, but don't really necessarily know what that means. So that's awesome. Okay.

Yeah.

So, all right. So you were saying, yeah, your first rehab.

Yeah. The first rehab, it was a little bit of a disaster. We weren't able to complete the job in the timeframe that we anticipated. However, due to the success of the National Harbor, we were still able to walk away with a profit. We were able to, it wasn't the profit that was originally anticipated, but it was a great profit. And it taught me a lot about understanding the dynamics of partnering with others on rehab projects. My rehab projects moving forward have always have gone a lot more smooth. We've had some market changes. We've had, you know, you have certain elements that you have to consider that HGTV doesn't cover, such as understanding the nature and the limitations of your construction crew, Really making sure that you have a solid relationship with your inspector because inspectors can really hold up the finalization of a project. And also a great relationship with your lender. Over the last 2 years, we've seen a dramatic increase in real estate investment deals and rehab deals. And so lenders are also seeing an increase in demand which can cause them to be slower than anticipated. And you really are dependent heavily on your lender. So Moving forward, the rehabs have been amazing. Some of them have had their own sets of challenges, but nothing compared to the first one. The first one was an eye-opener. It was what I expected was what was on HGTV, and what really happened was just a lot different. It was a lot different.

Yeah, that's good to know. So, for someone who is like really interested in real estate and maybe is looking to buy their first property, being maybe something that they're hoping to rehab or flip, or something they're looking to, to buy and hold and make it a long-term, maybe a rental property. What would you recommend as, as a first step? Or yeah, I guess, what would you, what would you recommend as a first step for someone that's just like, hey, I just want to buy my first property? And then also, second part to that question, how do people— what's the best way for someone to analyze if a flip or a long-term rental is the way they should go with the property? That's an excellent question.

So I'm gonna answer it, um, part A and part B. So part A, if I were an individual— if the individual is interested in entering into real estate investing and would like to use the acquisition of their first home as the— which is traditionally what we've been taught, you know, buy your first property make it a starter home, improve it, and then rent it out and move into a larger property, more of a family home. I actually add a quick twist to that. I think that if a person is interested in using their first home as their investment property, they should consider a multifamily. You're able to obtain FHA loans and government-backed loans for properties under 4 units. That's considered residential. And so when you're able to consider a multifamily and still acquire down payment assistance, still acquire smaller loans. I mean, excuse me, smaller interest rates or lower interest rates. And also consider 203k funds, which give you some fix-up capital within the government-backed loan that still is at a lower interest rate than what private lenders—

What's a 203k loan?

So a 203k loan is actually an FHA-based product where they give you loans to improve the property, but the improvements have to be mostly cosmetic, nothing mechanical nor structural in nature. But if you— but if you were able to find like an older but functional 3 or 4 unit property and able to acquire 203k funding from the government at 3 or 4% to fix the property up that you can easily finance into the mortgage, and your mortgage is seemingly inexpensive, 3 of those units you can rent out and gain passive income for, and the 4th unit you can live in and perhaps not even pay a mortgage on your property. So that would be my recommendation for those who are interested in entering into real estate investing and using their first home purchase as a way to get started. Definitely, definitely, definitely should consider a multifamily because there's so many opportunities that are available to you in terms of bringing the cost of the property down if you qualify for down payment assistance, as well as the overall expense of the investment property when you consider that your loan interest rate will be a lot lower due to it being a government-backed loan versus a private loan.

I love that. That's awesome. I think that's something a lot of people don't realize is that, you know, you can buy, like you said, those units that are multifamily, 4 units or less, and still get substantial down payment assistance and things of that nature. That's an awesome first step. I wish I did that with my first house. Clearly, I was not thinking. That's a great idea. So I guess for you, like, how many houses have you been able to, I guess, rehab or flip or, I guess, keep as long-term? What's kind of your investing strategy when it comes to your own personal real estate?

Yes. So first off, I wanted to make sure we went back to part B of the question, and I forgot what it was.

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. So part B, you know, I'll be all over the place. Part B was, how do you determine if a property is better to be rehabbed or flipped or held on to, to be rented out? Because I know that, you know, a lot of people, you know, and I think when I talk, I talk a lot about like wealth building and building your portfolio. And I think that real estate is something that should be a part of your portfolio because it can be a really great passive stream. I don't know how 100% passive can be, depending on if you have a good property manager or not. But it could be a great, another great way to build in another stream of income. So I guess understanding, like, how do people determine if they're looking at a property if it's something they should be flipping or something they should be holding on to a little bit longer?

That's an excellent question. So I think that for me, um, I think that it's very important to understand your personality. That's the first thing. Rehabbing isn't for the faint of heart. If you are the person that's not used to large expenses and daily management of construction sites and understanding the unknowns of construction, then rehabbing may not be the best fit for you. Within my coaching program, the first element that we start with is an investor personality quiz that I've developed. Because I understand that there are certain characteristics or character traits that are necessary to be a successful rehabber versus being a successful wholesaler versus being a successful buy and hold investor. And I try to match people with a strategy that best complements their personality. So I think the first thing is to know what you're willing to do. I find that if you're interested in— those who are interested in buy and hold are a little bit more less tolerant of risk, but they're interested in, in risk that's mainly— that's very manageable. And they don't need the return on their investment immediately, they just need the return on their investment to be secured. And there are great passive income investing strategies as long as you know exactly what you expect on a monthly basis, on an annual basis, and you can begin to devise your strategy that way. As a rehabber, you're expecting more short-term gain and also a lot of short-term risk, and there could be certain elements that could throw your gains tremendously, such as time or expenses because you're buying properties as-is related to construction that just wasn't factored in. And I think that the best way for an individual to analyze a 2 ways. First and foremost, your personality. Secondly, your avail— the availability to liquid capital. Because with rehabbing, what makes a rehab job more expensive is when you don't have the finances to fix or band-aid the bleed immediately. Whereas with the rental, you have a little bit more flexibility because you own it, it's a cheaper interest rate, um, and you have some time or more space to fix things as needed. And it's a little bit more routine versus rehabbing, you are literally building a house. Even if you're just gutting the inside and you're not building the structure again, it could be a mechanical system failure, it could be a structural issue that could require $10,000+ or $5,000+ that you'll need to be able to touch quickly. And without that capital, it could cost you more money. And that, I think, is a difference. Don't— you know, I don't advise that people jump into rehabbing unless they feel that they have the capital liquid capital to be able to address the problems.

That's good. That's, that's— I think a lot of people need to realize that, like you said, those shows make it seem like, you know, you throw in a couple thousand, flip the house, you walk away with a million. And it's not the case. I love that. So tell us about— I know you have the REI Mentorship Program. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what made you start that program?

Yeah, so the REI Mentorship Program is one of the programs that we have in the REI Institute, and it's a 6-week intensive program that teaches every aspect of real estate investing, from wholesaling, buy-and-hold strategies, rehabbing, vacation rental strategies, tax strategies. Although I'm not a CPA, we bring in licensed CPAs. We also bring in general contractors to discuss the rehab process. We introduce you to private lenders to have conversations about what the cost would be if you wanted to enter into rehabbing. And those who participate in the program, the in-person program especially, are required to close a wholesale deal where we give you hands-on training and support in helping you do so. And so I established the program because I've been, you know, learning this from various professionals for years. I mean, probably over 12 years. And as I have trained myself over the years working with those professionals, I found that the only thing that I would receive after a long seminar would be a certificate. But when it was time for me to go out, reach out to sellers, and I would, you know, of course get cold feet or have, you know, doubt, or perhaps not know how to save a deal that I may have almost gotten under contract, what I learned is that I wish that my coaches would have been more available to me during the process of me working on my deals. And so why we, why we created the program the way that we did is because we wanted the 30 hours, the 6 weeks that students are with us, to act as an opportunity for them to actually work on live deals so that we can see them in action, be able to jump in the trenches with them. They can hear us speak to sellers, hear us negotiate, hear the way that we set up, you know, offers for cash buyers, as well as we hear them practice what we've taught them so that there's a level of confidence that a student feels once they've left our program and going out and actually starting their investment career.

I love it. I mean, I feel like that's what everybody wants, to be pretty much handheld through that first transaction. Absolutely. Yeah. And I know one of my favorite clients worked with you and had such an amazing experience, and she made some coins, and I was excited about that. I was so excited. I was so proud of her. I was like, I have to meet this Nicole. She got you out here making all these coins.

I was a fan. I was really happy about it, to have that conversation with her on how to take the money that she made and grow it and invest it. So that was exciting. And, you know, one of the major things about her success that I loved is when she started the program, what she wanted was to quit her job. And she just kept saying, you know, I just really want to get out of my job. I want to be a full-time entrepreneur. And I— we— in a part of the program, I incorporate mindset training because real estate investing looks very easy. It appears very simple. There are millions of YouTube videos that will share with you all of these fancy strategies to invest in real estate. But the program that we built endeavors to teach individuals how to have a successful real estate investment practice, meaning a side business that they're using and the marketing systems and the lead generation strategies to continue to earn deals. And I appreciate how she really embraced the mindset aspect of it and allowed that to really give her the courage because she found the deal in the program. We give every Saturday when we meet, we give them 90 minutes to work on their individual deals. And it was during that 90-minute timeframe that she was working on a deal. She used what we told her, she found the deal in the program and closed it. And, you know, was able to earn over $20,000 from her first real estate investment transaction. So I'm very proud.

I remember her calling me like, girl, I got extra $20K. I was like, I was like, let's have a conversation. And so you don't blow it. No, but that's awesome. Absolutely.

And it's great to know people that have gone through your program and obviously were just pleased with it.

And so I definitely commend you on that. So for the program that you have, do people have to be in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area, or is it something that is online as well?

No, we actually offer virtual slots as well. We have a virtual program coordinator who joins me in making sure that all of our virtual students well attended to. They attend the course, it's all one big happy family. They're able to engage with the other students that are there in person. And each week we meet Saturdays and Wednesdays, and each Wednesday we're all on virtually. And I'm actually releasing a virtual module-based program. And so in later in the fall, we're going to be releasing a module, a virtual version of the Real Estate Investor Mentorship Program that gives you an opportunity to take the program without being in DC and on an ongoing basis. We would have such a demand for the program registrations, and I try my best to maintain an intimacy with our programs. And I'm also out in the construction world, you know, getting deals done and rehabbing. So we wanted to create something that could operate separate from my schedule, but would give my system and my curriculum an opportunity to help more people.

I love it. I love it. I love that you were able to put this together so that others can, can help. So it can help others to kind of get going as well. So just in your own journey, I know you talk a bit in your bio about, you know, how you kind of overcame like some dark depression and loss, you know, in your journey. And I think that's something that as entrepreneurs we don't spend a lot of time talking about, but I always, you know, share the struggles I've gone through as an entrepreneur. What do you feel, I guess, has been like the biggest lesson you've learned in this journey? And do you feel like real estate kind of helped you get through those times?

Oh, wow. Well, I think that having a strong why for doing anything will help you fight through those strong times. And I knew that real estate has always been my first love. It's actually been my only love. I'm pretty dedicated to it. Although I've done other things, I've always done those other things to create a bigger place for real estate. But what I found that helped me through it the most was being fair with myself. There's a lot of anxiety that comes about as it relates to success and ambition and where you think you should be and what you think you should be doing and trauma that you may have experienced in your life that could impact your emotional composition. I actually was diagnosed with delayed PTSD from, you know, trauma that I just hadn't even compartmentalized accurately and adequately that kind of emerged in my professional career as an adult and was completely overwhelming and almost, you know, just, it was very, very difficult. But what helped me the most was understanding that I had to put myself first, that self-care was extremely important. And if self-care included a therapist, if self-care included budgeting time. I think that you and I are of the age range where we were taught to grind, and grinding didn't include sleep, and grinding didn't include self-care. Grinding was all about the opportunity, the hustle, the business that we were building, and it had not much to do with us. And then I'm pleased now to see that we place mental health in its proper place, that it's been provided a bigger platform and we're celebrating self-care most. And I believe that that was one of the biggest things that helped me to overcome some of my darkness and how it related to my effectiveness as a business owner. As an entrepreneur, we don't get sick days. So it was very important for me to be proactive. Right. So that's something that I contribute.

Oh, that's good. That's good. I think that's something that people definitely, definitely need to hear. I love that. So what is one— oh, Really quickly, before I ask you this question, can you tell us about— you have a new book coming out, right? Demystifying Real Estate Investing. Can you tell us a bit about that and what we can expect from that? And are you able to just buy this book and start buying all the houses? What's that about?

Absolutely. That is definitely the goal. So the book is called Demystifying Real Estate Investing. And you can expect strategy. I packed the book with simple strategies, a lot of know-how. I find that people can, you know, you can look at a YouTube video, you can look at HGTV, and you don't necessarily understand how. The book explains the how. That's the most important concept when endeavoring to do anything. You know what you want to do, but how you do it is what costs you money, what costs you energy, and what costs you resources. And when you know how to do it with a sound strategy, you're able to be more successful. And so what has happened with the book is that we actually are going to release it. There's a pre-release that we're going to make exclusive to your listeners. And so they just have to reference Dominique as the actual promo code and we're going to give them a special discount and they can actually order the pre-release of the ebook via the web, the website, qnicolemcneer.com. And we also are going to have hard copies available at our book stop tour, which will happen later in the fall and the winter of 2018.

Awesome. Thank you so much. So we'll make sure we put that in the show notes and everything so people can access the link, the link to your site in addition to be able to put my name in as, as the code so you guys can get the special discount. So thank you so much for that.

Not a problem.

So tell me, what is one quote or kind of mantra that you live by that keeps you going?

Don't get caught in the thick of thin things. Don't get caught in the thick of thin things.

Don't— I am in the thick of thin things. I like that.

That is, as an investor, a lot of times every day, a decision costs money, whether it's interest, whether it's labor, it costs money. And a lot of times I find that new investors or individuals who may not be very aware of all of the elements and sacrifices you make as a real estate investor will cost themselves more money because they're complaining about something that is thin, right? It's really thin. You know, it could be the paint color, it could be the window size, it could be the fact that it costs $500 more than you anticipated. But it's thin compared to the bigger picture. And when you get caught in the thick of a thin thing, then you really just waste a lot of time. You waste a lot of resources. You expend a lot of energy, whether that's in your relationship, personal, business, etc. Really quantifying how big of a deal is this and making sure that you understand how much energy you should give it based on how big of a deal you've identified it to be. I think that's very important. And you asked a question earlier, and I forgot to answer it. I think we got mixed around, but so that I answer, you asked about how many flips I've done in multifamilies. I actually have 2 multifamily projects. One's a 4-unit and one's a 9-unit, and they're both 2-bedroom, 1-bath apartments. And I also have done— typically I do about 3 or 4 flips a year, only because I teach, I wholesale, etc. So last year we were able to get 3 done, and this year we have 2, 3 that we're working on currently. So there are 3 construction projects. There probably won't be another this year. We're planning for 2019 next, so far.

Okay, awesome, awesome. Is there anything else that you wanted to share with, with, with our listeners, with our audience?

Absolutely. I just think that if you are interested in real estate investing, you know, especially if you're a woman, please don't be intimidated by the task Don't be intimidated by the terminology. Don't be intimidated by the process. It is a fun industry, a skill that I feel that every adult should learn so that they can teach their kids. The real estate industry is here forever. And fortunately, real estate investing, the practices are not based on boards or various, you know, advisory— advisors that control the processes. But it's really a legal matter. And with that being said, a lot doesn't change from generation to generation. What my grandfather— my grandfather was a big landowner and was responsible for developing subdivisions in North Carolina. So this is something that's kind of like in my genes. And the same— yeah, the same things that he taught us when we were kids are some of the same elements that I use as an adult. And so I think that most people should really understand you want to set your kids up to understand the value of money, then you also should let them know where they could invest their money to get a great return, great tax advantages, and also a skill set that will create employment for them. You know, as a general contractor, you're creating employment for yourself as you're rehabbing, as well as, you know, wholesaling and other aspects of investing. So I think that regardless of your sector, or demographic, financial background, whether you are great with money, horrible with money, challenge yourself to understand how you can get involved in this industry and use it to create income and also learn new skills that you can pass down.

I love it. And then one last question, do you see any like, um, I guess just your thoughts on any like upcoming trends in real estate? I know, um, I've been looking at like the website, I don't know if we talked about part of before, Roofstock. And I know a lot of these kind of like real estate tech things are popping up, making it easier for people to purchase properties pretty much from their phone. Like, what are your thoughts on that, on some of these like real estate technology trends? And just anything that you see coming up that maybe we should be on the lookout for?

Yeah, I think lending has really opened up over the last few years, which has made a lot possible and with fewer regulations, I do think that everyone should still proceed with caution because we don't want to find ourselves in the same mess that we were in, you know, about 7 or 8 years ago with overextending ourselves with loans. I think that the current trend that everyone should pay attention to would be, you know, two trends actually, and which I just spoke about this a couple of weeks ago. A lot of Class A or prime markets throughout the country, whether we're talking Washington, D.C., New York, and large metropolitan cities. Traditionally, the thought process would be find a property there and turn it into a rental because that property will always cash flow. People— it's a transient area, people will be in and out, you'll always be able to rent your property. But that's not the case in 2018. There's some, you know, in order to buy a property in some of these markets, you're buying it at retail value, and the average rent that you're able to earn may not even be as high as your mortgage. So it doesn't balance out the same. So I tell people, pay attention to those other smaller markets that you've been overlooking— your Clevelands, your Richmonds, your, you know, smaller communities where properties are less expensive— so that you can create the passive cash flow that you're looking for as a renter. And I also think that the second trend that people should pay attention to with technology being, you know, benefit is vacation rentals. Vacation rentals give you a great opportunity to earn a larger return on a property because you're renting them out room by room versus the entire home than most traditional rentals. So that is a business model in and of itself that I've seen a lot of people do really well in, and I think that that's something that others should consider also.

I love it, I love it. That's, that's really good advice. Um, I think that's, that's where people get so caught up on feeling like they can't afford properties in certain areas because, you know, like you said, DC, some of these major markets, like, oh, you know, I can't afford that. Well, maybe sometimes it's about going to those smaller markets that are, you know, still big but, you know, a little bit more affordable. So I think, I think that's a great, great piece of advice. All right, Nicole, well, thank you so much again for joining us today. Everyone, we're going to put all the, um, the links to the different, uh, programs and the discount codes and things of that nature in the show notes. You'll be able to see all that. And thank you again for joining us, Nicole. It's been great. I know I'll definitely be looking more into your program, trying to buy me up some houses. So it's good to know we have you as a resource. And yeah, hopefully we'll get to chat and see you soon. And definitely please also send us a link to when you announce the book tour as well. I would definitely love to share that with the audience.

I would love that. Thank you so much for having me again. And I love your podcast. You're doing such a great work in our community related to finances. So thank you so much.

Thank you so much. All right, everyone, well, that was Nicole McNair. Make sure you're checking out all her awesome programs and getting into this whole real estate investing world. So I guess we will see you very soon for another episode of Finances Demystified. Have a great day.