EP4: Build Your Authority through Podcasting with Jessica Hurley

So for the longest, it was money, money, money, right? And then it was grow the team, grow the team, grow the team. And now I've spent so much time building the systems, having the right team in place because I wasn't willing. I am one person. I'm not willing to compromise quality. Yeah, like it was like, I don't care if this takes us twice as long, like we will not compromise the quality and the work.

Welcome back to another episode of True Wealth Conversations. I'm your host, Dominique Broadway, and we today are in Cancún, Mexico at the Planet Hollywood for our Wealth Demystified Retreat. And as you can see, I'm shooting a podcast. And I have been very fortunate to be able to bring in Jessica Hurley of Instapodcast. I say that right?

You said it right.

Said it right. To help me produce this entire podcast from Mexico, which I'm really excited about. And very rarely that you have the podcast producer that's sitting in the chair, right? So I'm really excited to introduce you guys to Jessica Hurley. Jessica.

Yes.

Thank you for being here, first of all.

Thank you for having me in the chair and giving me an opportunity to chat in front of the camera.

I'm excited. Thank you. So tell everyone who you are and what it is that you do at Instapodcast. Yeah.

So Instapodcast ideally is a podcast production and media agency. And really the overall goal is to provide the production, the content, the concept, and the media and the production for entrepreneurs like yourself so that you can focus on being the talent. Yeah, because a podcast is— it is massive. It's a huge commitment. It is one of the best authority building tools, but it's also one of the biggest time commitments. And if you have to be the audio editor, the engineer, the content planner, the— this is long-form content.

Yeah.

And so if you— you are already a successful business owner, you already run a business outside of having a— basically a television—

another business, right?

This is like a television show.

Yeah.

And so you shouldn't have to do that. You really should just be taking what you already do and turning around and sharing it. You and your expertise on a show. So somebody needs to manage that. And I knew that from the jump when I had my own show. I was like, I had a— I was a single mom or a mom with a baby. And I was like, who does this? Why am I up until 2 in the morning? People need help doing this. So yeah, it was really to just allow the talent to be the talent and let us handle everything else.

And it's amazing because I remember when I launched my first, my very first podcast, I've actually had two other podcasts before. For this, but my very, very first podcast was a podcast called Modern Brown Women. And it was with two other girls. And let me tell you, our numbers were insane. We had a mini fallout though, like Beyoncé, Destiny's Child style. One person decided she ain't want to do it no more and da da da da. But we were like ahead of our time. This was probably 6 or 7 years ago.

If you got in at that time, you nailed it.

I mean, our numbers were really, really good. But anyway, it didn't pan out. But at that time, you know, we were managing all of the steps on our own. And then later on, I ended up starting the Finances Demystified podcast just for my company. And that one, I truly did everything from the content production to recording. I spent hours learning how to edit on iMovie, but what's it called? GarageBand.

Oh my God.

So I would literally, literally I would sit, so I would record my podcast. And then I was sitting by myself or on a plane or wherever I could be. I didn't have kids at the time, so it was a lot easier. And I would edit my podcast and then I would take the podcast, create little clips, post it to the site that would send it to all the things. I was literally doing the show notes.

Yes. Right.

Doing all the things.

The only thing I was not doing was the visuals for it.

I had someone do that, but I was doing all of those steps. And obviously after a while I got burnt out and I was like, this is too much.

It's so much.

So it's really exciting. Even when I first heard about your company, I was like, This is literally what business owners need because it— this is why many podcasts start and then just fade away because it's so much time. And a lot of you— there's, there's an ROI on it for sure.

Absolutely.

But it's not an instant ROI.

No, it's—

so tell us why, you know, let's say if someone like myself or other entrepreneurs or even someone who's not an entrepreneur but just has a message, why is a podcast or having a podcast like as the platform, why is it so important?

So to be clear, you're right. And I want to make sure we're crystal clear on this part. A podcast is not for everyone. And sometimes it is appropriate to share your message before you've really like started your brand. That was something I did. I started with 1,700 followers, grew my following organically off of just being vulnerable off a podcast that was literally about being stuck and trying to become an entrepreneur. However, what we've seen in the trends in the last like 4 or 5 years is that the best way to make money quickly or get an ROI on your podcast is that you already have something that sells. And I, you know, Abu, I'm sure your audience knows Abu. I always think of it like this. It's similar to the strategy you would think if it's time to use ads. Yeah. You don't use ads because your product's not selling. You invest in ads when your product is already selling and you want to get it out to a new audience. It's very similar to podcasting. You should look at the opportunity of like, okay, what I already do works really well for my audience. If I was able to create another marketing channel and market it to new people on the podcast app, I could generate more revenue, another stream of revenue through a new marketing channel. Yeah. So I think that's when it's really optimal. So if you have something that works for you right now and an audience that loves it, a podcast is perfect.

Okay.

When you have a message and you're just starting out, you have to be really down for the long game. Like I'm—

Saying a get-rich-quick thing at all.

No, but here's the benefit. So when you look at— so if you're not just starting out, but you've garnered a little bit of an audience, you're talking, maybe you're sharing, and you're selling a thing or two, but you feel like, okay, I'm not at that. I haven't blown up. I don't have this audience that will buy anything I sell. So how do I really create that vulnerability, that connection, that deep, deep connection with them.

Yeah.

When you think about all the platforms that you can really build authority on, right? I mean, there's a lot, but there's really only like 5. I mean, there's YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, writing a book, a blog, or podcast, really.

TikTok.

Yeah. And TikTok. No, you're right. Sorry, I cannot get into it, but that's my fault. You got to roll with the changes. Okay, so there's 6 or 7 platforms right now where you can really build long, like that authority and connection. Out of all of them, they say that like the engagement time maxes out at about between 7 to 9 minutes. So for you to build that deep connection, 7 to 9 minutes. But on the podcast platform, the average listener listens 26 minutes or longer.

Wow.

Like to one episode. So your ability to create like, know, and trust like that, for somebody to feel like they're sitting on the couch with you and connect with you is the equivalent of them buying into your event. Yeah. And sitting with you and being like, no, I saw her, I met her, I connected deeply with her. I trust her with everything as well as my money. So that, and I always make this joke as an opinion. It's just my personal opinion. Have you ever heard anyone announced on stage? Do you ever hear them say, like, Dominique Broadway is the founder of her very own YouTube channel and her awesome Instagram platform? Nobody says that. But what are the two authority-building things they always say? They'll say, Dominique Broadway, the author of blah, blah, blah, and the podcast host of True Wealth. So it's always— people look at podcasting and books is the equivalent, like, because people will be like, why do I need a podcast if I have an Instagram? They're not comparable.

Yeah, it's definitely not the same because I mean, Instagram is just a bunch of very, very short, short-form content.

Exactly. They're like long— and they'll be like, oh, I have a YouTube. Yeah, you can take your YouTube and turn it into podcast content. That's basically what we do is create the duality.

Yeah.

But like, it's not comparable to social media. It really is comparable to a book. So I would say, people, if you want to write a book, test it with a podcast.

That's good. That's good. So how did you Like, what were you doing before you did InstaPodcast? I want to go back a little bit.

Oh my God, I have the best story as to why.

How did you get here?

I've got the best story.

Okay, I mean, I mean, podcasting, like, you can't go to school for podcasting.

No, you know what I mean?

So like, this is, this is technically a new space, right? Kind of. Not really, but kind of. So what were you doing? Like, what was Jessica pre-InstaPodcast?

Okay, so first of all, I love when entrepreneurs are on stage and they're like I saw I had a lemonade stand. I knew when I was 12 I was going to be an entrepreneur. And I'm like, no, no, no, I never did. Everything I've ever done has happened by accident and just me going with the flow. I actually have a master's degree. Like, I was like raised by a woman that was like, you're going to do this, this, and this. Like, you're going to get your master's degree, you're going to have a good job. And I was working for a corporate company as the face. Now, one thing I've always had is mouthpiece. So I was the corporate facing partnership person for a national nonprofit for years. And then I was dating someone at the time that was an entrepreneur. And he was like, He just said to me one day, like, you should start a podcast. And I was like, I'm literally like a nonprofit director. Like, what do people want to hear from me? And he was like, no, no, no. Like, every time your friends come over, they like, they basically like trick you into giving them advice. Like, they come here and they say they're coming here for you, but really you just end up giving them advice and walking them through life. And I was like, I was kind of on the fence about it. I remember I recorded my first episode sitting in our living room and I played it back and I was like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever done. I'm never doing this again.

So wait, that very first episode, what did you record? What did you record it on?

GarageBand.

Okay.

And a microphone. Okay. And with headphones. And I was like, I played it back. I was like, nobody's going to listen to this. This is so dumb. Nobody cares.

And it was just you by yourself?

Me by myself. Okay. Because he was like, just talk about, you know, man, just talk about who you are and like what you care about, what you love. And I was like, okay. And then I played it back. I was like, nobody's going to listen to this. And so fast forward 2 whole years. And then I was pregnant with my son and I was like, I had a micro preemie. I had him when I was 6 months pregnant. Wow. And I was praying to God heavy every day. And I was like, God, if you let this boy out of this NICU, I will spend the rest of my life showing you why and showing him why. So I just knew things had to be different.

And so how long was he in the NICU?

3 months. Okay. Yeah. And he came home 3 months later at 6 pounds. So he was born a pound, 12 ounces. He's teeny tiny. Wow. So like a lot happened during that time, but I was just like, God, I will do— I will live my life different after this. Like, it just opened my eyes. And so when I got home and him and I got home on maternity leave, because I went back to work, so I was waiting for him to get out. Yeah. So I went— oh yeah, I had a baby and went to work a week later. So I was back at work and girl, everybody was staring at me and they were like, this is nuts. Like, you just had a baby and you're at work. So I went back to work, I got out, and I— as soon as I brought him home, I did two things. I started the podcast and I applied for a TEDx, and I got the TEDx.

Oh wow.

And I started the podcast, and I knew I was going to name it— I was trying to think of a name, and I was just like, I had tried a mom blog, didn't work. I had tried selling products, didn't work, and I knew I just wanted more. I was like, this corporate thing ain't giving. Yeah, but I don't know what to do. And so I was like, you know what? I just want to ask entrepreneurs. I don't talk about their accolades. I want to talk about the time that they cried on the floor. I want to talk about the time that they were stuck in their finances or their next move or whatever it was. And so I just did that. And what ended up happening 6 months later was I garnered like a little cute audience from being vulnerable and honest. And then it was actually, and I love to tell this story, is I asked Ronnie Brown to be on my podcast. And she was like, she messaged me like 6 months later and was like, yeah. So I was a year into the show. She gets on the show, we do it virtually. A week later she texts me, she's like, can you call me? And I'm like, yeah. And I call her and she's like, I remember I was still at my corporate job and she's like, hey, what did you do with the podcast? And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, well, I'm getting a ton of DMs. And I was like, that's your followers. You got 100 and something. That's you. She's like, no, you don't understand. I started my own podcast and I'm not getting this type of feedback. And I was like, wait, you have your own show? And she sent it to me and I was just like, oh, well, you did it wrong.

Yeah.

And she was like, what do you mean I did it wrong? She was like, this is what everybody told me to do. And I was like, no, Google told you to do that and that's wrong.

Yeah.

She was like, well, wait, can I fix it? I was like, yeah, I can fix it. Here I go problem solving. I'm just like, yeah, I'll fix it. She's like, okay, here's my login.

Here's whatever.

I fixed it. I had one VA at the time because I had a corporate job and we made her an audiogram, which was popular at the time. So I was like, make her an audiogram, relaunch the podcast, we'll fix the thing. And she called me 2 days later and she was like, can we cuss on this podcast? Can we cuss? She was like, bitch. She was like, I'm in the top.

That is literally Ronnie. She called me the other day and she was like, bitch.

I was like, Ronnie, what?

Is there any other way to greet? Is there any other way to greet Ronnie? Jesus. She was like, we love you, boo. We love you.

Yes. Because she gave me this vision and I have to give her credit for it all the time because she was like, I'm in the top 40. She's like, what did you do? What did you do? And I was like, I don't know. Yeah. I was like, I just fixed it. And she was like, okay, well, thank you. Send me an invoice. Pause. I did not have an LLC. I didn't have an LLC.

I don't have a price.

I don't have a price. I did you a favor. And I text her and I think I might have text her and said, hey, like, don't worry about it. She's like, no, no, send me an invoice. I'm in my partner's office at the time. Like, how you send an invoice?

He's like—

So I sit there until midnight sending this invoice. And I just— I just got to explain this part about the journey because I need y'all to see yourself where I am in this moment. I send Ronnie an invoice for $250, and in the notes section, I literally explained myself on PayPal. I was like, please don't. I hope this isn't a lot. Like, blah, blah, blah.

Girl, it was so bad. Wow.

So I wake up the next day. And I get a notification that she paid me $12.50. And I FaceTimed her and I was like, hey. And she, you know, hey. And I was like, so did you make a mistake? She was like, no, I paid you every penny you were worth. She's like, I've been asking people how to do this and nobody could help me. And you did it for nothing. She was like, so I paid you what you were worth. Don't charge a penny less.

Yes.

And then she hung up and called me back 10 minutes later and she said, you need to make this a business. And I said what you just said. I said, nobody's going to pay me to start a podcast, it doesn't get them instant income. She was like, that's a lie. You need to do it because if I couldn't figure out how to do it, they can't figure out how to do it.

Very true.

And I sat on it for about 2 months and then I ran with it, and that was 2019.

Wow. And now you've done podcasts for some of the top entrepreneurs like in the country. Like, you are like the go-to person. And I will tell you, anytime I meet someone, I told you, I'm like, they're like, oh, I'm trying to start a podcast.

Like, mm-mm.

Just go straight to Jessica. Like, don't be like me over here trying to figure it out. No, just go straight to the source. And that way, you know your stuff is going to be done and it's going to be done right.

It's going to be done right.

What do you feel like— and thank you for sharing that story. And why did it take you so long to get the invoice out, though?

Because I didn't know what I was doing. He's like, you got to set up the PayPal account. Like, I don't even have a PayPal.

So you got to set up a PayPal account.

I'm like, all this to get paid?

Yes.

This is stressful.

You could have just got a Cash App. Was Cash App around back then? No.

No?

Okay. I was gonna say, you could have got a Cash App back then. So what do you feel like is the one thing like that people are doing wrong when it comes to starting a podcast? Because I feel like a lot of people are starting podcasts and I hear people all the time like, oh, I'm starting a podcast. A lot of times it doesn't happen. Right. Because they don't realize how hard it is. But what do you feel like people are doing wrong when it comes to this podcasting thing?

So there's a laundry list, but we're going to start easy.

Just give me a few.

It's not about you. This is not your docuseries. This is not like— people don't want to hear a podcast that is in the majority about you and your life. This is not like a journaling opportunity. I mean, it is a form of therapy for you to be able to talk. Dear Diary, I need to tell you guys what happened to me today.

Wait, that's a podcast though, isn't it? Dear Diary?

Yeah, you're right. There's a Dear Diary and then there's Dear Media, the company, right? Yeah. There's a lot of dear.

There's a lot of dear.

Yeah, there's a lot. So you really need to figure out how to connect with your audience immediately. And then it's similar to the game that you play on social media. It's like you don't have a long amount of time to connect with people. You have to hit them right where they are, right to the source. So in a podcast episode, you really have to like, and we keep evolving to the point where we have to get right to the content immediately. Like you have to hit them where it hurts almost. That's why now in a lot of podcasts, when you press play, you'll see that they play the clip. And then the intro and then the episode where they start from the beginning because they need to hook you immediately. And so you really need to niche down on like, I always ask people, what are you trying to do here? They're like, oh, I just want to share my story and this, this, this. I say, okay, so you have 16 episodes, you share your story, then what? Well, I hope— I'm like, what are you hoping for? Do you want a lot of likes? Do you want a lot of connection? Do you want people DMing you? Like, sell me the dream right now. Are you hoping people DM you and like, oh my God, you changed my life? Because that's that's still not going to generate dollars. So what are you trying to do? Oh, I want to help people really understand messaging in their brand so that they can do blah, blah, blah. Great. Are you going to sell your program in that? I need to know because we really need to figure out, is this investment of time and money or potentially both worth the ROI? Or are you down for the long game? And I think with this long-form content, you have to be willing to— I always call it throwing yourself under the bus. You need to be willing to be vulnerable. Like in the episode with Corey where you were like, hey, I know all these things. But one thing I know nothing about is e-commerce. So I'm bringing you on the show to tell me and my audience about e-commerce because this is something we're both curious about. Yeah, you have to be willing to advocate for your audience. I know my audience needs to know X, Y, and Z. I know my audience wants to know all the time this, this, and this. So like willing to throw yourself under the bus, like, listen, y'all, this is something I know nothing about. So we're going to take this journey and learn this together.

Find somebody to help us out.

People think they can start a podcast and sell whatever they want, like You better find a way to connect deeply with your audience. They need to feel like whatever this girl is, this girl, man, whomever is listening, is selling, doing, articulating to me. I feel like they could be my best friend. I, I could sit next to them on the couch and I can trust them because they're giving me the best parts of them.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. So what do you see? Like, I feel like it's interesting because podcasting has already evolved, right? So originally podcasting was just like a person on a mic, probably sitting at home like real close, in a closet. Hey, welcome to blah, blah, blah, right? And now it's, you know, we have all these videos and 3 cameras and lights and production and mics. And, you know, it's, it's— to me, it's turned into, as you mentioned earlier, TV. Like, it's like a TV show. It's television. So what do you see, or how do you see like this space evolving? Like, what do you think is next? Or what are like some trends that people need to like— if like, say if someone's like, hey, well, You know, I want to start my podcast now. Do I need to have video? Is audio just enough? You know, or what are some other things that you see coming down the pipeline when it comes to this space? So if someone is looking to start right now, like, so that they can be thinking that it's not just a mic anymore, it's a little bit more than that.

So, okay, there's a couple of things in there. Yeah. So I would say one is consider video. So I think I saw a stat the other day that said less than 17% of podcasts are currently video, but that is truly where the industry is going. And there's two reasons. One, it's very difficult to market. Outside of just having yourself on the podcast platform to market anything audio only these days. If you put up an audiogram or anything on Instagram, it's going to just— it tanks like it doesn't do well. So to market it is difficult. But on top of that, like, I think my videographer and I talk about this all the time, is like we're going to a stage of like people don't want to watch television. They want to watch people's lives.

Yeah.

And so—

it's because y'all nosy. Nosy.

But it's okay. We're going to give you the content. Nosy selves. Nosy. But people want to be be in your life. This is potentially the longest form content you can create. And the way we look at it as a business is it ideally could be the top of your funnel because you can create so much from this. As you create an hour podcast episode, this is 5 pieces of marketing content for your social media. This is now bite-sized content you could potentially put in a course. You can literally keep going down the pipe with this. And so I think video, people really need to consider video. And it doesn't have to be this full set production, right? Dominique sitting here with 3 angles, 2 big soft lights, like all the microphones, audio interface, all the things. You don't need all this because because we do have a section of our business where we run podcasts. We don't even do audio only anymore.

We will not.

When someone contacts me about that, I'm like, no, because now you're telling me you're just a hobbyist, which is fine, but that's not— this service is not for that. And so, but you can do at home virtually, which is like Zoom, Riverside, StreamYard. There's platforms right now that you could buy a $100 webcam and a $100 mic and look really great filming from home. So that's a great place to start. But I think no matter what, to compete to be visual, to be able to stand out, you do need video.

Okay.

I think another thing that's going to really stand out is finding unique ways to show up on the podcast. And I think this is just based on our ADHD these days. Like, our attention span is literally this big. I know mine is.

This is how I was like— she was like, how long? No, she was like, how long would the podcast be? I was like, maybe like 10, 15 minutes. You know, I have a short time frame. And you were saying, no, the longer podcasts actually do better. Yeah.

So they say everyone thinks that, like, everyone comes to me and they'll be like, oh, it should be like a length of a car ride, right? And I'm like, no, no.

I'm driving, so my car rides be like 3 minutes.

So yeah, you're not listening to a podcast on a car ride.

We do listen to Wills on the bus in the morning.

My kid is not listening to a podcast. Play my favorite song, please.

Yes. Wills on the bus right now, Mommy. Right now. Got it. Like, that's what people really— it's so funny. I was actually taking him to school the other day and we was jamming. I don't know, Wills on the bus was like really rocking that morning. And we were like, Wills, you know, like, you know, it was like— so the lady, she's beside me, she was like, okay.

And I'm like, she don't even know what I'm jamming to.

She probably think I'm like partying.

I'm like, literally jamming with my kids.

I'd be vibing with my kid in the morning. She don't know.

Go to school with the right attitude, please.

When we pull up at the school, they be like, "Mommy, why you cut it off?" You got to go inside, okay? You got to go inside. It's over. But yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. So longer than that, than that 3 minutes, and the longer the better. Not 2 hours, but—

I think it takes people 15 minutes to get into the nitty-gritty.

Yeah.

And I think that's something else people need to like embrace in podcasting is like, and no offense because you do that, you have done this in interviews, but people will a lot of times spend the first 10 minutes like, tell us who you are, tell us what you do, tell us. And at this point your audience has gotten no gems from this. They're just getting a bio.

But I think that like it doesn't need to be like, I don't think the who you are and what you do should be long. But I do think you have— people don't know who people are. Absolutely. So I also never want to assume that somebody doesn't know who someone is.

No, you should.

But I think if you take that first, like, this is who they are and this is what makes them credible.

Correct.

For me, because like sometimes I'm listening to stuff and I'm like, oh, oh, this is who they are.

Now I got to go dig them up.

Now I want to listen more. Now I want to, you know, like you said, Google them. It's kind of like when you're watching movies, right? And then you see somebody and you're like, oh, who is that? Let me go pull up his Instagram.

Right, right, right. Yes.

You know, or her or whatever, you know. So yeah.

I do. Yeah, you're right. I think another trend that people are seeing right now is like, they, the ADHD is like doing something unique during the podcast. I don't know if you've seen that, but like people are eating hot wings while they do the podcast. People are doing their makeup while they do the podcast. I get calls about some of the funniest stuff. People will be like, hey, I want a podcast where I want a weed tender to come in and like serve blunts while we go on the podcast. Or like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna serve their favorite meal. Like we saw with the sports podcast where they did the the chef would come and serve them a meal while they were on the podcast. So there's like this— people need to see two things going on at once.

I like that. I like that.

So there's, there's people adding a lot of unique concepts to podcasts that are really kind of making people pay more attention.

Yeah, but it's like, it's like they're not podcasts anymore. They are— now this really is this television show.

It's literally television.

It's TV.

Yep.

TV without—

and everybody's a thought leader. Yeah, everybody. Interesting.

Everyone's a thought leader, but all the— but the content's not even on TV anymore. Everyone's watching it like on their phone. Where are most people listening to or watching podcasts? Do you have that statistic?

Yeah, so I don't have the statistic, but it's always a toss between iTunes and Spotify. They're always competing. And like Spotify just dropped an opportunity for anyone with a video podcast to put it on Spotify. Oh, so now you can have your video podcast on Spotify, but Spotify has a membership fee, which is what they're trying to do is drag everybody over for the membership fee. iTunes is is not. So they're constantly in competition. It's always around like 60/40, 40/60. They go back and forth. And then a lot of people listen on YouTube. But what's funny about a, a podcast or a show listener, you'll talk to them and they always have a preference. Like me, I do not watch shows on YouTube. I do not want to be distracted. I listen to a podcast in a car, on a walk, on a treadmill. But I don't want to see all faces because I want to do two things at once. I'm trying to be productive and get this game.

Yeah.

So I want— but then I know a lot of people that are like, oh, I would never listen to audio podcast, I have to watch. I want to see what they're doing.

I actually like both. I think certain ones, like, it's cool, but I'm also very okay with just the audio because I'm similar to you. Like, I'm usually doing something else while I'm watching it or listening to it or consuming it. Yeah.

And I also think it's two different audiences. I think the people that come from YouTube are not the people that are gonna listen on iTunes. And there's been a lot of talk around, like, iTunes. Um, there is a stat that says that a lot of the average podcast listener listens to 7 episodes a week. And that it was like, I don't want to miss this number, it's like 45% of podcast listeners have an average income over $250,000. So they were like, if you're wondering where the money's at, like the LinkedIn folks are listening to podcasts. That's where they're at. So like, they're not on Instagram. Yes, they're not on Instagram. They're here to get the game. Give me the game and I'm moving on to whatever I'm doing. And I'm listening to 7 of these a week.

That's a lot.

A lot.

That's a lot.

That's one a day.

Yeah, that's, that's a lot, especially if you're doing an hour. 8 hours plus a day, right? 8 hours plus a week. I mean, that's— yeah.

And then the stat came out that said that, like, I was— it was like last year that, like, more people were buying from their favorite podcast hosts than they were from television ads.

Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, I know. Um, I've had some friends who, like, gone on people's big, big, big podcasts and have had, like, six-figure days. Yeah, that's also how a lot of, um, podcasters monetize. So what are you seeing as far as like if someone does want to launch their podcast? And as we said, it may not be profitable immediately, right? Unless you launch it with an existing huge audience, right? If you launch with a big audience, you can typically find, you know, a sponsor. I know actually when I didn't have a huge audience at the time, I still don't have a huge audience, but my Finances Mystified podcast, when I launched it, I launched it with a sponsor.

Yeah.

So I had pre-sold the podcast. I'm like, hey, I'm launching this podcast. And I was able to get Charles Schwab to sponsor like the first 3 episodes. And so that also gave me the fire to go make the podcast.

Correct.

That I, that I need, I needed that fire. And so what are some of the ways that people can monetize their podcast if they create one?

Absolutely. So it depends on the audience. So you, you pre-selling your podcast. Absolutely. If you already have an audience, you are going to tell someone, yeah, a potential sponsor that I know I'm going to get at least a quarter of this or less of this engagement that I already have. So they're going to come over and listen. So here's your guaranteed listen. And they are— everybody's looking for nontraditional media right now. Like I could sell this stuff with my eyes closed at this point because everybody's like, I want targeted ads on nontraditional media. But everyone thinks sponsorship is the way to go. And so when someone comes to me with like 1,700 followers and they're like, I want to sponsor, I want a podcast, and I think I'm going to get sponsorships in the first couple of months. There's so many more ways for you to make money than sponsorships. And the thing that you can't avoid is often Sponsorships are based in listenership always.

Yeah.

So unless you either have the pre-engagement where you have the existing big audience or you have the downloads to show, nobody's sponsoring your show.

Yeah.

You can do independent pitches, but that's small dollars. That's you going to like your local bread company or your favorite drink that you have every day and saying, hey, will you sponsor a couple episodes? And you can do that. Yeah. But first you can do affiliate marketing. You can make the guests on your show sell their products and ask for an affiliate code where you get a percentage. I tell people that is the easiest way for you to make money because all all you're doing is being a mouthpiece. That's it. You're doing no work. You're spending no money doing the work. You're just talking. And I may be promoting the guest or I may be promoting a product or a service and being an affiliate. Easiest way for you to immediately make money. If you have 100 listeners and 5 people buy, you just made money effortlessly. I always say the second is your own products and services.

Okay.

And this is basically what a lot of entrepreneurs do is they're just making a podcast to create another marketing channel to sell what they already sell on a different platform. Yeah. It's 100% profit. You just outside of the cost of whatever it costs you to run the service or business. Third is exclusive community. So when you get this many people, there's a good percentage of them that will want something for you, for, from you for free forever. But there will be people that want exclusivity. They want more touchpoints. They want more of you. So can you drop them in a Facebook community, a Patreon community? There's iTunes is now has this setting as of 2023 where you can make your podcast a monthly subscription service.

Oh really?

Yeah. And so you can either add something or take something away.

But iTunes doesn't have the video component.

They do not.

Okay.

So this is where I think, and you'll constantly see in the background Spotify and iTunes playing this game with each other of trying to drag people over. Yeah. But iTunes has a subscription service now. They do take a cut, but there's ways. That's one less place you have to drive them over to.

Yeah, that's good.

And then I say fourth is sponsorships, and there's independent pitching sponsorships, and then there's traditional industry sponsorships.

Okay.

CPMs are very—

What's CPM?

Low. So it's like cost per— minute or cost per click or something like that. Um, so it used to— it's, it's like between $30 and $100 per 1,000 downloads. So if you don't have—

wait, $30 or $100?

Okay, per 1,000 downloads. So it would be like if you have 5,000 downloads an episode, then you're talking maybe $500. Yeah, per episode. And that's in the first 30 days. They're basing off— basing that off the first 30 days. So you may get 10,000 downloads on an episode over a 6-month span which by the way, that's one of the coolest things about podcasting is like people will go back and listen to all of your stuff.

Yeah, I've noticed that.

Yeah. You'll see that in your stats where like it'll show you per month when people listen and they'll be like, oh my God, somebody went down to episode 140 and listened. 17 people went and listened to this episode from 9 months ago. Yeah. Because people are trying to figure out who you are. So it's like this silent mover in the background of your business that's constantly advocating for you as your podcast.

Wow, this is awesome. So what, I guess, what are you doing next with your own personal life, brand? Because now you have this company, right, InstaPodcast, which is growing and scaling as there's like so much demand for podcasts now and outsourcing this type of like content creation. So what do you see, like, what are your personal goals for yourself as just as you as an individual, as Jessica, but also as you're growing this company?

So for the longest, it was money, money, money, right? And then it was grow the team, grow the team, grow the team. And now I've spent so much time building the systems, having the right team in place because I wasn't willing. I am one person. I'm not willing to compromise quality. Yeah, like it was like, I don't care if this takes us twice as long, like we will not compromise the quality and the work, right? And I think this year, I would even say in the last 6 months, has like been the clearest I've ever been. Okay. And I took a moment last year to really sit down and I was like, something doesn't feel right. And it was that I felt like I was sitting on like just a bed of gold. Like I was like, I'm working with all these incredible creators. Like they trust me. I'm getting to deep dive into their stories, which is my favorite part, how we can bring their stories to life. But just helping them start their show, helping them share it. Like there's more and I know there's more. And when I really like I wrote the question, or wrote this down, asked myself the why 5 times. Like, why is this bothering you? Why, why, why, why, why? I really got down to the place of like, I get to work with people that I really admire, like, and blown away by. They can teach me new things. I'm excited to create their content because I'm like, they're going to teach other people new things. But they're getting very few sponsorships. They're getting very, like, they're getting the attention from their existing garnered audience, or maybe a new one. But they're not— people are not barking up a tree about them. Yet I'm seeing all these multimillion dollar deals for a lot of these entertainment, cultural, sexual podcasts. And I was like, you know, you'd be like, damn God, am I the person? Yeah, like, really? Let me, let me put a pin in that and I'm gonna come back. Yeah, yeah. And then it was just like, because I see people build media companies all the time and they're starting from the idea and then bringing shows on. And I was like, wait, I have all the shows. Like, they're not mine. There's no ownership. I advocate for the creator owning their content. But how can I bring in all the people to say like, hey, here's a magazine of all these people that have this incredible engagement and they're making people make millions and they're changing their lives and they have substantial impact. And like, here's the testimonials and here's it. We have all of this stuff. Why can't we bring in incredible sponsors to really put this content further, make this content reach further, but to really entice our creators to keep going, right? Because it is a labor of love for a while. Even if you get 1 or 2 sponsors, then you get to the point where just like some of your interviews, we've said like, I'll give $1 million back if it's stressing me out.

Yeah.

So I don't want people to be stressed.

All money ain't good money.

All money is not good money. So I'm like, if this content is changing lives and changing the world, why are we not supporting these creators? And so this is the year where I really took a step back. I started building the cart before the horse. So I was like, I know what I want. I know what I want this to look like. I know how I want to help these people. So I started building the team. As if it was already going to happen.

Okay.

And I love that. That's how the universe works because I brought in the people. I took the L a lot of times, been building the site, the trademark, everything, and was like— and it's just like all of a sudden it's happening effortlessly. People started reaching out to me at the end of the year, in the top of the year, like, hey, is this company— instead of us reaching out to one podcast, can we talk to you for 40 podcasts? Because we're managing 40 podcasts a month right now.

Wow, that's a lot.

And publishing. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, like I'm like, this is perfect. And I— but I want to really help these creators like stay creating this content, continuously getting creative and have this long-form content on their back end that they working with us. And I'm gonna talk my shit for a minute. Working with us, you only record 4 days a year.

Yeah, it's crazy.

2 days, 1 season, 2 days for the next. You record 4 days and then see you, bye, market what we give you.

That is like— that blew my mind.

Yeah, bye.

Yeah.

And then I help you plan the content. So you give me your idea and I'm like, cute, let's keep it going. Like, let's plan all this content. Then you sit down and you come be the talent. And so it's like for all these people, I want them to keep going and I want them to feel so good in it. And then I want to create— help these sponsors create targeted content. Like I just had a dating app come to us and I was like, well, tell me why you guys are unique. And when he told me that, he was like, I would love to be on all 40 of your podcasts. I was like, that's a no. He was like, why? And I'm like, because you don't belong on a career and leadership podcast. So whoever told you that, but you do belong on a Triggered AF podcast and you do belong belong on a woman who's newly single after 20 years of marriage, who's helping women love themselves again after divorce and heartache. You do belong on a podcast like that. I was like, I'll put you on 5 podcasts, but very targeted and very clean. So like to be able to play that matchmaking game, I'm like, oh, okay, here we go. This is fun.

That's, that, that's exciting. And I can even see how excited you are. Yes. It's, it's like you said, it's not just the content creation. It's like, okay, now we're We're building these empires, helping people build their empires, right? The publishing and all the different things. That's exciting. I'm excited for you.

Thank you.

Okay.

I love when y'all come and be like, this is my idea for the next season.

Send all the big sponsors this way.

I got you. I don't know if we need the dating one. Do we need the dating one? You do not need the dating one. You connected to the big banks. Depends on what app it is.

What's the app? What's the dating app? I don't even know what it's called. It's supposed to be one that's like the league. I've heard it's like supposed to be like the elite.

Oh, I see a lot of those ads on Instagram now where they're like, stop with this. Here's the real professional dating.

I was like, okay. Funny. Okay. So as you know, the name of the podcast is True Wealth Conversation. So when you think of true wealth, what does that mean to you?

Okay. So I feel like I think that there's— it's a constant evolution of what the definition of that means. It's just like the constant evolution of what success means, right? You have to constantly change it. I think in this season, for me, it's been the first time of not only time, like not only realizing like, I want to spend more time with my son, I want more time to care about my health because I really— in my highest momentum, I let my health go. So it was like, go, go, go. And then all of a sudden, I can't even stretch my leg and I don't go to the gym. And oh, whoops, I gained 20 pounds. I'm like, Shit. Like, and then it's like, there's no better time, right? But one, having the time to have routine, focus on my health, and spend time with my son because he's not getting any younger. Date, you know, like all the things. But then also realizing in this season, like, you don't need any more money to be able to do these things. Like thinking, like, if I could just make another $100,000 or if I could just do like this much more. And then I was like, girl, you tripled your business last year and you still don't feel like you have enough money to take a vaca— like, I was here with you and I was walking around. I'm like, I was like, why have I not brought my son anywhere like this yet? I literally could. There's nothing holding me back. But there's something in my head telling me like, no, I just need more money. I need to just do these 10 more things and then I can take a vacation. I took one vacation last year. Everything else was business. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, so this true wealth to me in this season has been like, girl, you can tell your team to take the boat. You have everything in place. You're not going to miss a dollar. You're not going to miss a dime. The time is now. What are we— right now. Life is right now.

And that's a beautiful thing. And that comes with like self-realization and like realizing what truly makes you happy. And that's like the biggest thing where it's like wealth is not just money, right? No. It's so much deeper than that. Money is just honestly a byproduct of us doing the work that we do. And you do need it to survive.

Yes.

It's very important. But it's not everything. And the things that make us— what I've found to be most interesting is like what you said, always felt like I would feel wealthiest when I made a million dollars or I did this or I had certain things. None of those things make me feel wealthy, right? It's all the things that you said— spending time with my children, having the flexibility, the time, the time freedom, um, you know, being able to wake up without an alarm clock and not having to rush anywhere in the morning other than taking the kids to school if I want to, right? And like, those are the things that make me feel— yes, wealthy. Like sometimes I Drop the kids off and I'm like, I'm just going to go into Trader Joe's and grab a coffee.

Yeah.

And like, that stuff to me makes me feel wealthy because I don't have to answer to no one. Like, it's the littlest thing.

I be walking through Target like, this is amazing.

I'm just like riding around Miami in my G-Wagon, drinking a cold brew. And I'm like, I feel the richest I've ever felt. Like, I have nowhere to go, but I'm just driving.

Yes.

You know, and I have a full tank of gas and I, you know, little stuff that I couldn't— that was a struggle for me. Right? Before, getting a full tank of gas was like not a thing. It was like, well, put $20 on it and hopefully I have some more money next time I need it. It was like to be able to go to the gas station and buy a full tank of gas, like it's the littlest things that are like, that provide the most. It's crazy, right? But it's, it's, it's so fulfilling when you figure out what makes you feel wealthiest. So thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, with me. And I'm excited that you're having that actualization. I can never say that word. Actualization.

I have words like that.

Yeah, I have a few words. I'm like, eh, but that actualization, actually, you know what I'm saying? That is very important. So anything else you want to leave everyone with before we wrap?

Yeah, I'll leave everybody with this, and it's not related to podcasting, but the realization for me, and I want to share this realization for anyone that might be listening, if you have kids, is I was running a million miles an hour and I went to Mexico. We're here in Mexico. I went to a Mexico retreat street and was meditating. And I remember the question in my head I had written down was, what's next that's going to fulfill me? What's next that's going to fulfill me? And I was literally in this meditation. I'm like, I'm like, my mind's like, I see myself on stages and all these things. And I'm like, what's the next offer? What's this? This was last year. And I swear, split, split day, I heard it loud and clear. The voice in my head was like, don't you find another stranger to help until you focus on your son. And I was like, Oh, shit.

Wow.

And I was like, okay, like, I'm so focused on trying to help more strangers. Yeah. Like, but I have all these tools and I haven't given them to my son yet. Wow. And I was like, okay, that's pretty powerful. And then to me that said, you need to go back and look at your business and figure out how to clear some space so that you can pour back into your son. So what are you gaining all this for if you can't give it to him? But yet you're out here like, kid behind you, who's next?

Who's next? Yeah.

No, no, no. Bring your kid to the forefront. Pour into him. And then figure out how to build your business around that. And like, to me, that was— it wasn't what I was asking for. Yeah, but it was crystal clear.

Yeah.

And so I hope you just listen because we always have the answers.

Yeah, listen, listen, especially to our guts, our hearts, and taking that time and that space to just like stop, right?

I get the best ideas when I stop.

Oh yeah, just stop. I get my best ideas in the shower. That's probably when I'm the most stopped, right? I'm just in there just washing off. I'm like, oh, idea, idea.

Yeah.

So thank you so much for sharing that, for being true, and also sharing your definition of true wealth and what you have coming down the pipeline. I'm really excited for you and how you're going to impact your son's lives, but also all of the people that you're helping to solidify as thought leaders and helping them to increase their reach.

Yes.

And then that reach increases the impact. So thank you for what you do.

Thank you.

So this has been another episode of True Wealth Conversations. Thank you all so much for tuning in. We'll see you in the next episode.