How To Create Your Dream Digital Nomad Life - Kashlee Kucheran

You're listening to Finances Demystified with Dominique Broadway, the podcast that provokes the conversation of money, demystifies all your finances, and shows you how to bring all of your dreams to reality so that you can live your very best life on your own terms. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Finances Demystified with your favorite host, me, Dominique Broadway. And I'm excited today, and I probably say that every episode. I'm sure you're probably saying that by now, but I'm really, really, really excited today because We have an awesome guest, uh, Kashlie Kouturen. Hope I said that right. And I'm really excited about interviewing her because as most of you know, I just started my kind of semi-nomad life. Um, and I ran across her on a, on Boss Babe. And, um, basically tell you a little bit more about, about Kashlie. So Kashlie is a digital nomad. She's also a budgeting expert. So obviously, you know, I love my other finance people and she's also a serial entrepreneur. She left the corporate world. Of being a finance manager and realtor in order to travel the world full time. Her journey out of consumerism and into minimalism inspired her to write The High Maintenance Minimalist, which is a great resource for anyone wanting a freedom-based lifestyle. She documents her journey around the world on social media at @cashley_k and on her blog Travel Up Path. She's also a contributor to the mega frumpreneur brand Boss Babe, which we all love. And she loves teaching female entrepreneurs how to build businesses with a tiny budget. So how are you today, Kashlie?

I'm so good. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for joining us. So since you're obviously digitally nomading, where are you at currently in the world?

Right now I'm just, I'm in Canada. I'm in a little valley that's near Vancouver and I'm getting ready to actually board a ship in a few days. Yeah. Which is going to take me all the way to Tokyo, Japan.

Wow. So how long is it going to take to get from Canada to Tokyo?

Uh, 15 days.

Wow. So is this like one of those like uber luxury cruises or you guys?

Yeah, it's a cruise. Like it's a proper cruise instead of like some people think, oh, are you on one of those, um, like cargo ships? And no, it's like a proper cruise, but it's, we're taking it just one way so we can get to Asia this year instead of instead of flying, we thought, why don't we take a ship over? And then we're going to be touring through all of Asia for the next 7 months.

Wow. That's, that's phenomenal. So I'll definitely be following you on IG to see those, those travels. Cause that's, that's pretty awesome. So I know you, to start this digital nomad life, you're also a budgeting expert as well. So I'm sure finances, obviously this is a financial podcast, had a huge impact on you launching this journey. So can you tell us like how you had that aha moment that made you realize that you wanted to nomad? Um, and what did it look like financially for you to prepare, um, to make that leap?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great, um, that's a great kind of story and something to dive into. So my husband and I, before we were married and we were just dating, we started to travel quite often. And I mean, have you ever been on vacation and you've said the words, uh, like, oh, why do we have to go home? Right. I think everyone kind of says that. They always say like, oh, I don't want to leave. Like, I don't want to go back home. And that started to become so true for us. And then we started to ask ourselves the question, okay, well, what if we don't have to go home? Like, what if, what if we maybe sold home and kind of made, kind of made the world our home? And when we asked that question to ourselves, we actually found like that there was nothing stopping us except for what we thought was the norm, what people put onto our lives, like saying, no, no, no, you have to have a house and you know, you're gonna have to have kids, you're gonna have to do it this way. And you have to have this amount in your savings, and you'll have to have these cars. And we realized maybe it wasn't our dream. I think that was probably other people's version of their dream life. So yeah, we took a big hard look at what are we paying every single month for our home, for our cars, for our bills, for the way that we live our lifestyle. And how if we removed those things, like a mortgage or if we removed all these bills that we had at home, could we actually repurpose that money for traveling, for becoming nomadic while still being responsible, while still contributing to savings for the future? Um, but we realized we could actually do it a lot easier than we thought. So we did, we kind of just eliminated 90% of our bills and, uh, took our life to the road.

Wow. I love it. And I think I like what you said. It's, it's what we're kind of raised to feel as though, We're raised to feel like the norm is you have to have the house, you have to have the car. And that's literally what's keeping people chained to their desk and to the lifestyles that they really don't want to be in because they're trying to follow the norms. I love that you kind of had that realization. So how did you get rid of so many expenses to start this journey? I was reading that you sold your house and pretty much everything. What did that look like?

Well, you know, we were gone so much that we started feeling like, wow, we're paying for a house and we're paying for all these bills and we're not even there to enjoy it. Right. So what a waste of money. That's like lighting your money on fire, literally. Right. And so we started out really small when we, we were actually in Mexico when we kind of had this epiphany and then we came home and we started going through all the really small things. So I started combing through my credit card bill and I didn't realize how many extras I actually had on there. Like, you know, I had like the makeup subscriptions and I had all these like snacks coming to the house and I had all these subscriptions for services that I probably wasn't even using anymore. And when I combed through my credit card, I realized that there was about $2,400 a month in stuff.

Wow. Wow. That's a lot.

When you, when you add up like everything, like when you're adding up your Netflix, you're adding up your cable and just things that are recurring. $2,400 a month. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I can take that way down. Like, I don't need any of this stuff, right? Yeah, none of it's not even making my life any better. So we started with little things like that. And then we graduated to looking around our home in the physical world and saying, okay, what do we have here that we don't need anymore? So we'd start in the cupboards and the drawers and under the stairs and in closets. And we just started looking at like, okay, what's in these boxes and why are they still in boxes after years? Then we don't need it, right? If it's still in a box, you haven't seen it for over a year. Do you use it anymore? No. Yeah, you don't.

You don't even know it's there.

No. And we went through and we're realizing like, oh wow, here's an old camera that still works and maybe we don't want it, but I can sell this to someone who could use it. Or, oh, here's my, an old laptop that I never sold. Still works, I could just, you know, reboot it and sell that. So we started to sell things like clothes and old kitchen appliances we weren't using. And then it just kind of got to the point where we're like, wow, this is great. We had sold $10,000 worth of stuff that was sitting in boxes, which seems like insane, but it is once you add up your old handbags and shoes. I mean, there's a goldmine in everyone's closet.

Yeah.

And so we kind of became addicted to it. We were like, wow, this is amazing. Like, look at all this stuff that we can repurpose and either donate or sell and make money from and maybe pay off some debt or put extra money into savings. And then we really decided because of how confident we were after selling most of our stuff to sell our house and sell really the rest of everything else that was in it. Because we knew that we had more joy from being able to be nomadic than having this so-called safety net. That was not our dream.

Yeah, yeah, wow, that's crazy what they say, one person's trash, another person's treasure. I remember when I was moving, when I sold my condo in Maryland, I started selling it. I had been there for 10 years, I had just a bunch of stuff, although I don't have a lot of stuff, but once you start like going through the boxes and the closets, I was like, there's a lot of stuff in here, and I started selling. Yeah, I think I ended up making, it was like $3,500, and I couldn't believe it, and I was like, this is stuff that's literally just been sitting here and people were scrambling to come by, which was shocking.

I was like, you guys are crazy. People were crazy. Like I had lineups for stuff. Like I'd be like, you know, old iPhone 4, like cracked screen, $50. And people were like, oh, me, me, me, me. I'm like, what?

And it was funny. And I actually ended up using Facebook Marketplace to sell most of my furniture and stuff before I started using Postmates. And I remember my mom, I mean, what's it called? Pomodoro, Poshmark, Poshmark, Poshmark. Yeah. And it was funny because my mom came to my house. She was like, where's all your furniture? I was like, I didn't realize that Facebook Marketplace works so quickly. So I was posting stuff in the morning and people were like, I can come pick up your couch by that evening. So it was like 2 days and I had like no furniture. I was like, okay, I'm going to keep the bed because y'all are like literally buying everything within hours.

Yes, it was within hours. Same thing with me.

Yeah. But it's so liberating. It's so liberating. So now that you, you know, you guys made the leap, you sold everything. Um, what were you doing, I guess, work-wise? Um, you and your husband, as far as like, how are you making money? Because I think that's one of the biggest questions people ask. It's like, okay, if I want to start this, this nomad life, um, it's still not free to be a nomad. So like, how, how were you guys making money? Um, and what do you kind of recommend for people who are looking to find that sweet spot so they can make money digitally while they're traveling?

Yeah. So I think for lots of people they feel like, okay, if I'm going to be a digital nomad, I'm going to be half— I'm going to have to make what I'm making now in my current salary job or more because traveling has got to be expensive. And I really disagree with that. I'm a little bit more of a risk taker than some people, but I truly believe that if you get your cost of living down to next to nothing and you use geo arbitrage, meaning you go to countries where your currency is much higher valued than it is at home. So say like going to places like Vietnam or Thailand, Bali. If you're choosing countries where it's very cheap to live, you don't need to be making nearly as much as you make right now with a salary. So I think that's something to consider is to research. So if someone really wants to be a digital nomad and you're, and you're thinking, oh, maybe I want to live in the Philippines or maybe Bali for a year, research what the true cost of living there is. And what we've found is it can be like 75% to 80% less than at home. So it's like, okay, right there you can really work with less, right? It doesn't— it means that you don't have to have this super successful business all on your own to be able to do this. Um, but for some people, if you're not super confident in your abilities to build a business or to push through adversity and succeed, that might not be necessarily the best recommendation. But for us, I was in previous years, I was a finance manager and then I went into real estate and I could never travel. I was like, like you said earlier in the podcast, like chained to my desk. I literally was chained to my desk and I was addicted to the next client and to the next deal. And I got out of that before that we decided to sell our house and sell all of our stuff. So I had already started building a business on the side. And I mean, I have also built several businesses while I was doing real estate. So it was a familiar space for me. And my husband also worked for himself at the time that we decided to sell our home. So we, yes, we were already bringing in some income from being entrepreneurs. Now that we've fully kind of exited the real world, like now that we don't have the house and and all of the bills and we're not sort of living that corporate life and we are on the road full-time. Our businesses have definitely changed because it's sort of the lifestyle has demanded it. So now before I used to be much more into, my husband had a health and fitness business that he was running and I would run that with him and I was really enjoying it. But after we started traveling full-time, I really started to migrate over to travel blogging and, and also helping people that want to take the same steps that we have. And that's much more of what my day looks like now. And so I don't really— I'm not in the health and fitness space anymore whatsoever. I'm just definitely over into travel blogging, documenting our journeys and teaching people how to travel around the world on a small budget. But also a big part of it is like you're talking about right now is teaching people how to make a business, how to turn their passions into cash, how to turn their passions into income and monetization so that they do have some sort of an income to fund traveling while working.

I love it. That's awesome. And another, I guess, kind of always, always wonder, I know I've been working with myself, but like as far as setting up, you know, like bank accounts and getting mail and how are you tackling all of, all of that? Like some of those, those normal things where like, oh wait, I still have to have an address somewhere and things like that. How did you navigate that space?

I know it's so, it's so different and it's different for people in different countries. But what we've done is we have a UPS box and this box gives us a street address even though it's a PO box. It gives us like a proper street address. So we use that for, whether it's right or wrong, we use that for our driver's license and all that kind of stuff, right? Because it's like a, it's a legit address. And then we get all the mail sent to that box. Now that box will hold our mail for as long as we're gone. So if we're gone a year, they will hold it for a year. If there's something super important, they can forward it to us no matter where we are in the world. So that's how we've kind of gotten around mail. And like we signed up for every e-service that there is so that you can just get all your bills like over the internet. But to be honest, we really don't have any bills. And I thought mail was going to be the hardest thing. Like, oh my gosh, how am I going to get mail? But we don't really get any mail ever because number one, we're not shopping online. And number two, like we don't have any bills. So it's, I mean, like what would we get? Most of it that shows up in our box is still like some leftover, like junk mail that still kind of comes and that's about it. So.

That's cool. I just signed up for like a digital mail thing myself, and I'm kind of noticing like I'm checking it frequently, like I'm not getting alerts. Like, am I getting— but you're right, you just don't get— you realize like how much mail you don't actually receive other than half the time you go to your mailbox, it's junk anyway. So that's very true. So as far as financial planning when it comes to budgeting for like your trips and excursions? Like you said, you're headed to Japan, right? Do you and your husband kind of sit down and budget out months in advance, or what is— what does that look like as you're preparing to kind of take these longer trips? And do you have like a certain amount of goals, like as far as like places you want to visit every year, or is it— or is it spontaneous?

Yeah, we're definitely more of a spontaneous travel couple because I don't truly believe in counting countries and that's just my personal thing. Not against anyone who does.

Yeah.

But it's like, how do you count a country? Right? Like, does it mean you were there for 24 hours or a week or is it a month? Like, how do you even count a country? So we don't necessarily have a goal of like, okay, we want to hit this many countries and we do travel slow. So we kind of like to be at least a month in each country that we visit. But what we do is we sat down and we said, okay, we have about 7 months. Um, and we're going to go to these different places. This is kind of where we'd like to go. And we give ourselves a general budget because there's one thing with traveling for a long period of time is you're always, um, going over budget no matter, no matter what you do, there's always unforeseen costs. So we try to give ourselves like a general budget and then just stick within it. But, say we splurge and we find this amazing hotel that we really, really want to experience, but it's like way out of budget. Yeah, we'll do it. But that means the next week we're going to be staying in a really, really cheap place and we better, we better get on board with that, right? Like it's going to be like questionable. Um, but so that we can have that experience, like we don't put rules on ourselves like, oh no, that's out of budget so it can't happen because we're doing this, we're traveling the world. So we can make amazing memories and have amazing experiences. So we don't want to like put ourselves in this box and say, no, you can't, you can't do that. That's not why we're living this lifestyle. But, um, we try to, we try to just pick countries for now that are on the cheaper side of things. I know Japan's not, but we're only going to be there for like 8 days. And then we're going to Southeast Asia where it's much, much cheaper. And as our businesses grow and as we get more comfortable and just better at budgeting on the road, then we can add in some more expensive countries like France and Italy and places like Switzerland where we've always wanted to go. But right now, yeah, if you're traveling full-time, those places will suck the budget right out of your bank. Yeah.

You'll be back to work in no time. Yeah. And so actually that was my next question. It was like, where do you typically say, but you kind of answered it. I was wondering, like, do you usually stay in Airbnbs? But it sounds like you mix it up where sometimes you'll do something super fancy if it's one of those, like, must-visit places and then kind of quote-unquote bum it out the next week since you had the luxury experience. And I guess I'm assuming too with your travel blogging, I'm sure you're able to get some sponsorship opportunities from travel brands as well.

Exactly. Yeah. And that's like, that's the thing is people are always wondering, okay, how do you create a business that you can do and it's online and it makes money? And the answer is like over a lot of time, right? You're never going to have a business that's just going to make money immediately. And my travel blogging didn't. And I've been doing it for, uh, almost 2 years now. And you know what, for the first 2 years it really didn't make any money at all. Um, a few sponsorships here and there and a few sort of collaborations here and there, but now it's finally at the point where, yeah, I blogged constantly. Week after week after week after week. And then now, yes, it's a, it's something that does make money. It can make money through advertisements, sponsorships, collaborations, things like that because it's, it's tried and true, right? I've put in the time, I've put in the consistent work and now that has enough readership, enough people enjoy it that brands see the benefit in partnering with me or saying, okay, would you like to come stay at this property? Uh, if you'd write about it, which I'm absolutely, I love to do that. But I always tell them I will give my honest opinion, right? Like you can invite me to your place and I'm sure it's amazing. It looks great, but I will write my honest opinion because the one thing that you cannot ever tarnish while you're being an entrepreneur is your integrity. And if I started just saying everything is amazing and then all these people take my advice and they go to all these properties and they're actually crap, That doesn't put a lot of faith in me as someone to get advice from, right? So I think like holding your integrity at the same time as wanting to take up on these sponsorships and collaborations, it's like a, it's a balance for sure.

Okay. And I totally respect that because I think sometimes people just, you know, they're so excited to have a brand partnership, they'll work with anyone. But I know even me personally, like I will not work with any brand if I don't believe what they're doing, you know, matter how big the check is, because your name is associated with that. And that is really important.

So the internet is forever.

Oh yeah, it's so forever. It's very forever. People need to remember that.

So tell me a little bit about The High Maintenance Minimalist.

Like, what, what can we learn from, from that, from that book? And, you know, who is it? Who is it for? Is it for people who are preparing to just start the minimalist life? Or is it more people who want to do no the nomad life or is it for people just in general?

Yeah. So I broke it up into sections so that it could be for so many different people. I wrote it because I was getting literally hundreds of messages in my inbox saying, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean you just sold your house? What do you mean you sold 90% of your stuff? What do you mean you're going to travel full time and live around the world? Like, okay, tell me more. And it got to the point where I was like, okay, I'm just going to, I need to write a book about this because it, I can help so many more people understand if it's sort of in a book that they can read on their own time. And the first half of it is talking all about what minimalism really is and how it's not just wearing plain clothes and being like a hipster or whatever. It's how anyone can apply minimalism to their life, just to do more with less and just to kind of clear the clutter. And then it really gets into budgeting. It talks about how I sold all my stuff, how I got my bills down to almost nothing, and how other people can apply the same principles to have a really great budget. And then the next step is getting out of debt. A lot of people have debt. I mean, almost— it's shocking how many people in North America have either credit card debt, student loan debt, debt on their mortgage that is swallowing them alive. Like, it talks about how to repay that debt, how to make a plan to crush debt, how to sell your stuff to put the money onto your debt, and how to stay out of debt once you get out of it. And then the last part of the book really goes into if, if the person's goal is to be a digital nomad like me, I talk about how to start a business, how to take your passion and turn it into an income. And then what are my tips for traveling? What are my tips for living around the world and for getting ready for full-time travel and all of those kinds of things. I even have a small section in there for if you have kids, how to do it with kids. Cause I interviewed moms that actually full-time travel with their children. And so it, uh, it really has everything from this, all the steps I personally took and all the things I've learned from this journey. It's just all kind of in one book. So it's great for someone who wants to just declutter. It's good for someone who needs some help with budget. But also if they want to be a digital nomad and travel, then it's a, it's a great resource for that too.

Okay. I'm really excited to dig in. Just, just ordered it. So I'm very excited to dig in and see how it can help me over the next few months. Is there any like quote or mantra that you live by?

Sorry?

Is there any like quote or mantra that you live by?

Oh, I definitely think the less is more. Would be a personal mantra of mine. I think that people, like, we're so— not only are our minds cluttered nowadays, but our homes are cluttered and our cars are cluttered and our closets are cluttered. And even the way we consume social media, like, we have— we're following so many people and we have all these different emails coming in all the time. Like, our world is so cluttered. And the moment that I took control of that and I started having less— so having less things and having less consumption and even just having less stuff around my house was the moment that I actually really started to live in the present moment and feel more alive, feel happier, healthier, both mentally and emotionally. So I think it's a really important thing for people to realize that less is not less. You're never going to feel a lack. It actually gives you so much more. So I think, yeah, less is more is definitely a mantra.

I love that. Less is more. And one last question. Do you think you will be nomading forever or what's your long-term plan?

Ah, that's such a good question. So my husband and I, we, we kind of gave each other like, and again, it's not a rule because we don't want to have rules in life, but we kind of said, let's do this nomadic thing for 10 years. Right. And if something changes before that, we would stop. If all of a sudden we hate traveling, then we would stop doing it. And if we come to 10 years and we're still not, we're not done, you know, there's still places we want to see, then we'll keep going. But we kind of gave the 10-year as just like, we can check back in with ourselves and say, okay, what do we want to do? And a lot of people think because we sold our house and I am definitely an advocate for people like renting until they have enough money that they could buy a house with cash or buy at least half of it with cash. So some people think I'm against real estate. Now, I'm not. I definitely see myself as being old and probably living somewhere, but I don't want to put roots down until I have, number one, seen the rest of the world. Because how do I know I don't want to live in one of these countries if I've never seen them? And number two, I want to have amassed amount of wealth that I can truly purchase my dream home and the land with cash and not worry about, am I going to be 70 and still have a mortgage. I don't ever want that to be on my plate and I don't think it should be on any senior's plate to have to worry about being shackled financially later in life. So we're definitely just going to tour the world for the next decade. Um, and we're just going to see like, hey, is there a country we want to settle in? And if so, um, what does that look like? And, uh, yeah, we'll take it from there.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, thanks again for, uh, coming on and joining us today. I think it's so important for more people to be exposed to minimalism and understanding that how consumerism is pushing us further and further away from that, making us work just to constantly spend all of our dollars. And that's just a wheel and cycle that people get stuck on forever. So thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. And I'm so excited to, like I said, to expose you to my audience and share the book and your website and Instagram.

Anything else you wanted to share before we wrap up? No, I think we covered a lot actually. A little bit at a time. It was good.

I can't wait to listen to this interview again. This is so refreshing. And, you know, this is something that I'm very passionate about as well. And I know that, you know, a lot of times when you take these leaps, people are like, what is wrong with you? You're crazy. Yeah. So it's good to find like-minded people who travel and are also passionate about personal finance. So I was really excited to chat with you today. So thanks again for joining us, Casually. We will link, we'll put links in the show notes to your book and the blog and Instagram as well. Please make sure you're following her. I cannot wait to see this, this journey on this, on the boat to Japan. It sounds really awesome. So thank you so much again for joining us and we will chat with you all soon. Have a good one.