Hot Topics: 2025 Feed Real Summit Recap — The Alternative Dog Moms

Welcome to the Alternative Dog Moms Podcast. I'm Kimberly Gautier, creator of Keep the Tail Wagging. I've been blogging about raw feeding, pet wellness, and life as a crazy dog mom for more than 10 years. I've seen massive improvements in my dog's health since I began raising my dogs naturally, and I'm passionate about sharing my experience to help other pet parents.

I'm Erin Scott from the Believe in Dog Podcast. For more than 10 years, I've been researching and learning everything I can about healing cancer, allergies, autoimmune, and mystery illnesses in both my dogs and myself, and I can't wait to share with you everything I've learned in case it could help you too. As the Alternative Dog Moms, Kimberly and I are bringing you all the latest dog health news that we're following and the brilliant people we're meeting along the way. Now let's get started. Hello, Kimberly!

Hello, Erin.

Have you recovered from all your peopling at Feed Reel?

Not quite. I think I need about 2 more days.

Yeah, I know that feeling.

I just— Johan came home last night because he gets off work late, and he just basically came home to me going, you know, it's great to see you, but I can't. And he was like, I understand. And I went, just snuggled up in bed with my dogs and just like, I need quiet. And today was a much better day. But I will say the traveling part was very easy. I was worried that people would call out at the airport and there would be long lines. Yeah. And I didn't think about this until Thursday afternoon when someone said it to me at work. And I was like, oh, no. So everything went very smoothly on the way there and on the way back. And I did lose my keys. Because I took a Lyft to the Real Dog Box warehouse, and I threw all my stuff into Ruby's car. And then when I came and took all my stuff out, I failed to take my jacket out, and my keys were zipped up in my jacket pocket. Not the best place to put them. And then didn't realize that until about 9:30 Sunday night. And I was leaving for the airport at 4:00 AM.

Oh.

So I, like, texted everybody to say, "Hey, this is happening." And luckily, Kay was kind enough— Kay, who I kept calling Kate all weekend, was kind enough to get in touch with Turk because I had Ruby's number but not Turk. But now I have Turk's number. And he went and looked in the car, found them, drove them to the hotel, and it was— so it was like—

Oh my goodness.

Yeah. So, but yeah, so that part was, was good, but the event itself was absolutely fantastic. One thing that FeedReal, I mean, they're good for so many things, but the food, I have yet to go to a comp— actually the only other conference that I've gone to that had food as good as that FeedReal was the, and I can't remember what it, what it was called now, but, um, it's the conference that was hosted by Carrie Hyde. In Orange County.

The spa? Yeah.

Yeah, the spa. Because she prioritized. That was like something that she said that it was very important for that event to have really good food. And so— and it did. I mean, we would be sitting there. I mean, like— and she went above and beyond because it wasn't like— you know how breakfast is sometimes muffins and berries and stuff? She had bacon and eggs and— I mean, yeah, she had a full-on meal. And I mean, we would come to a table with a— plate loaded with bacon. And it wasn't cheap bacon. It was delicious bacon. And I mean, it was a phenomenal spread. So we didn't have the breakfast, but we did have— it wasn't like the cheap muffins. It was really good pastries. I was more into the fruit because it was like this fig and grape. And I can't remember what the— what other fruit was in there. I think it was like pears mixed together. That was really delicious. Yeah. And and then coffee and tea. And I don't know if this was last— I feel like last year they didn't have a coffee bar. They had one, but it wasn't open on the weekend. This one was. So when they cleared away all the drink stuff, we can still go over to the barista area and get a coffee or a tea or something else. But the lunch, wow, it was so good. I mean, it was so good that— you had to remind yourself, it's like, I got a few more hours to stay alert and awake.

Yeah.

So I don't want to, but it's like you want to go back and just load up on another plate because it was so good. Even though, yeah, it was so good. Like everything was, ah, the second day it was chicken Parmesan and it was, you know, like sometimes people, it's, it's dry, especially if it's catered. It wasn't, the first day was more of a, um, Ah, like a, uh, a Mediterranean maybe style meal, maybe Middle Eastern, Mediterranean. I don't know. I can't remember the type of rice it was. You know the rice that has like the yellow tint to it? It was that. And but that was so good. And the salad, oh my God, the salad was so good. Everything was so delicious. They were just very good. But all the presentations were really good. I didn't see them all because I needed to take breaks. The one that I didn't see that I wish I would have just sucked it up and sat in on was by, um, Dr. Cara— Carol—

The Mind Pet Platter.

Yeah, the Mind Pet Platter. Because although I've seen her presentations before, you know, people usually change it up or they add new information. It has been a couple of years, so I wish I would have just sat down and watched, but I always end up like missing one or two just because when everyone's in there, it's like a really great time to just sit down and have some quiet time. You know, usually I like places where the conference is at the hotel that everyone's staying in, and then what I'll do is I'll just go to my room and take breathers in my room for a while. But this, you can't really do too much to get away. You can hide in a bathroom stall, or there's little areas where you can kind of hide too. But it's still, I just needed an extended period of time. And so I decided that out of all of the presentations, she was the one that I figured, I think maybe I can skip out on this one. And I did. But I wish I wouldn't have. But everyone else was really good. There was Hannah Mendelsohn of—

Hannah, yeah.

Hannah. I keep wanting to call it Forever Evermore because That's my favorite book series, but it's just Evermore. Her presentation was phenomenal as she's talking about what organic can mean, what we think it means, what it should mean, but what people who are unsavory and taking advantage of the fact that they're not being held accountable for these things. And so just because it's organic doesn't necessarily mean that it's better. Same thing with certified humane and— It was kind of a tough conversation to get through— a presentation, I should say, to get through. It started great, and she eased us into the animal welfare part. And I'll be honest, at one point, I just got up and left. And it wasn't like— it wasn't— she wasn't— what's the word? There were no visuals. And she was— she treated the subject very respectfully, and it was phenomenal. But it does get to me, just like the idea. And the fact that we think that we're not shopping factory farmed because, oh, I got this from a local farm. But she was talking about like 96% of local farms are working with in that factory farm model. So maybe they themselves aren't doing it, but they're supplying animals through that process. And so it was just like, it was just really, um, kind of defeating and frustrating. And when I was I was at Costco today because when I came home, I realized I ran out of eggs. And my friend who I usually get eggs from, it's cooling down, so they slow down.

Yeah.

So I go to Costco because that's where I usually get my eggs. And I'm reading the labels, and I'm just like so mad because the two types of eggs that I usually buy are free-range. And I always knew that free-range wasn't free-range. They weren't— you want to look for pasture-raised. But luckily, the ones that I ended up getting You know, it's said that they're usually pasture-raised, but due to the avian flu, they're not getting as much outside exposure as they usually do to quell concerns. And, you know, I wasn't really happy about that, but—

The one that always gets me with eggs is when they're like, "Ooh, they're vegetarian fed." Yeah. Chickens aren't vegetarians. Yeah.

I didn't know that until I saw a video. On Instagram of a chicken farm and what they were feeding their chickens. And I was just like, oh, oh, I didn't— they were, they were— it was like they were feeding them what I feed my dogs. It was just like, yeah, I did. I had no idea. But, but yes, so her presentation was phenomenal. Oh my gosh. Okay, I won't get there yet. Lee Carroll's presentation was phenomenal about mushrooms. What I loved about his presentation was how he talked about how you know, the history of it and, you know, and how it was really fascinating just the idea that I was, you know, I want to say dogs, but canines like wolves and humans, we've been consuming mushrooms for tens of thousands of years. And it's interesting, you know, how they found that out by like basically taking scrapings from the fossils and finding the mushroom spores on teeth in both both animals and humans. Well, for humans on humans, but for canines on the animals that they fed on. So the deer and the other prey were eating the mushrooms and the canines were getting it from them. And then eventually from us when they— when our lives sort of coalesced and they started living alongside us and then eventually became domesticated. And, you know, it talked about just what it could do. Oh my gosh, I have so much to say and I have to be sure that I don't talk your ear off. But what was so fascinating about it is Friday night and Saturday night, I went to dinner with everybody. And it was just a casual thing of like, hey, what are we doing? Because I know that Dr. Barbara Royal and I, we had already planned before the event that, hey, let's make sure we're going to dinner. And so we already knew that we were doing that. And so We hung out. So no, it was— I'm sorry, it was Saturday night and Sunday night because Friday night I just chilled. So Saturday night we hung out, and that's when I wrote my article about them reading the menu. If you want to just never eat again, go to dinner with Dr. Katie Kangas, Dr. Barbara Royal, Chelsea Kent. You know, Dr. Barry Sands, who, by the way, turns out that she's like this amazing chef who is like, she's one of those type of people who looks in her fridge and goes, huh, so I have a, a stick of cheese and, you know, a couple hot dogs and da, da, da, da. And she can turn around and present you with an amazing, gorgeous meal. I mean, that's what she does. And it's just, and so now I'm just like, whenever I see a video of someone making an amazing meal, I just send it to her because I'm like, oh, you should try this. I mean, She's astounding. I, I love, I just love learning things like that about people. But about the mushrooms, I got an, a message from the BuddyGuard people, the Pets Mount, I think they're called, and they make BuddyGuard, and it's a mushroom supplement where they're claiming that if your dog has lumps, it, the mushrooms would get rid of it. Oh yeah.

We talked about that. Yeah.

Yeah. And it seems like, and it's one of those things where I'm like, this is BS. And I feel like they're leading people to believe that, you know, if you feel a lump on your dog, just take this supplement and they'll go away without saying, be sure to talk to your veterinarian first because not every lump is a fatty tumor. But I did, talking to Lee Carroll, said that yeah, you can, you know, with mushrooms, make the fatty tumors shrink. But he said that, yeah, it's something that happens over the course of 2 years or more. It's not something— because they offered— they didn't offer me their supplement. They said that I got an email from them that says I can go to Amazon and buy it, try it for a couple of weeks, and if I like it, leave a review, and then they'll reimburse me for it and give me an additional $5.

No, thank you.

So I just don't think anything's gonna change in my dog after 2 weeks. And so, and that's kind of what I feel like. But there's also the question of what else are these dogs doing? So if you are dealing with a dog where they saw this amazing change, is this a raw-fed dog where they're not exposed to a lot of toxins and, and blah, blah, blah? Or is this a kibble-fed dog that's doing, you know, I don't know, annual or every 3-year vaccin— vaccinations and eating junk food and, and, and just not living a healthy life. And then they're adding this to the diet and it's gonna be like, oh, the system might really do show something. So anyway, that was interesting to learn. But yeah, his presentation was phenomenal. And I'm trying to think who else was there. I mean, there were a lot of people. Oh, oh my gosh. Yes. The person that I said we need to have on.

Dr. Trina Hazzah?

Yes.

She's fabulous.

That was— that blew me away. That was— that was my— that was probably— probably my favorite presentation was hers. And hers was the first. And it's like to shoot off the event with that was brilliant because that was a phenomenal— I was like—

That was the turn.

I wanted to get on the phone with people. I wanted to call you and just be like, oh my God, this is what she said. I mean, it was so good. So yeah, I did reach out to her.

I was going to ask, did you get to talk to her?

Well, I talked to her. Her while we were there. And so I am going to reach out to her and a few other people about coming onto the podcast, um, including Connor said he would come on as well. And so, and he and I had great conversations while we were there. He was so much fun. Um, he's so hilarious. His presentation, I called it the presentation where Connor told us we don't have to give our dogs vegetables anymore. And people were like, that's not really what he said. And I'm like, that's what I heard. That's what, because he was talking about how we always look to vegetables for fiber, and it's not the, you know, it's not the best fiber. I mean, it's fine, but there's a better fiber for our dogs and it's meat, you know? And, and it was just kind of an interesting thing where he talked about how, um, you know, if a dog has diarrhea, you know, give them veg— you know, we're reaching for vegetables to help and how that actually can make it worse. And it's not the, the, best solution. But his presentation also delved into the myth that, you know, cow farts and burps are destroying the environment.

The methane.

So we need to stop feeding meat to our dogs. And, you know, and he just basically brought up the fact that the people who are starting this myth are also people who fly, you know, private jets on a regular basis, as in, you know, if not daily, you know, weekly. And he compared the damage the damage that they're doing to the environment as compared to cow farts and burps. And so that was, that was an interesting discussion as well. But yeah, it was a great event.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So I know you got to see the Real Mushrooms team. Mm-hmm. I did.

I got— it was so hard not to, um, go crazy in the warehouse. Not that they would let me, but you want to, you want to just be locked in there. At night and I'll just crawl out a window with my big— throwing my big bag of treats out before me, because it is, it's just like so much fun, just everything. Yeah, they're— and they're just so organized. They had everything together. They were so organized. And the people, there were so many amazing people there. I mean, it was kind of exciting to sit and talk to people, you know, to have these conversations. I did a video yesterday. I posted it last night because I I hosted the panel. Yeah.

And, and so the topic of the panel was biohacking.

Yes. And I kind of like tried to steer clear of the word because no one really understood what biohacking meant.

Even though that would've been my first question.

Yeah.

So what does biohacking mean to you?

And I, I was gonna ask it, but then I was just like, I didn't wanna take up time.

Yeah.

Cuz I, I had an hour and an hour can go fast when you allowing 4 people to say something. I also, I just, I wanted to just get into it. I think I spent two, I asked two questions about kibble and I should have just asked one or none. And, um, I, I didn't like the fact that, because it's not that I want people to argue, I just want different perspectives and everyone was just agreeing with each other and it was actually driving me crazy. It was driving me bonkers because I was just like, oh my gosh. And I was so upset when it was over. Because I was just like, I should have asked, like, I was just, couldn't get it outta my head. It's like, I should have pushed them because, you know, I, someone in the audience, because we were waiting, the questions came up on like a, a monitor in front of us and we were waiting for them to come up and someone in the audience raised their hand. So it was like, well, let's just do this question to get us started. And she just, she works for a, um, vet clinic, a, a conventional vet clinic. And, you know, she feeds raw and she does holistic things for her pet, but with them, you know, she's trying to like advocate for these things in the clinic and she's wondering how she can better do that. And I, I thought that that was a good question, but it ended up being more of a, like this kumbaya type of, we need to support each other and we all got into this because we love animals and, you know, and, and that's all fine and good. And I was just, I hate to say it, but I was so aggravated. That everyone was just like, I was waiting for someone to speak out, but it felt like none of them wanted to say anything against their colleagues. And maybe they also, what they see as veterinarians with other veterinarians, maybe they see a different side of them than what we see. But regardless, my thought was that, don't they see the trends? Aren't they aware? Like, are, you know, after a while, because I think of my very first vet with Rodrigo, where he said, "This is just how dogs are." So clearly he saw a trend of dogs having chronic diarrhea, skin rashes, chronic ear infections, itchy skin, you know, licking their paws.

Right. Like, does that seem normal?

Clearly. So they see that, you know, they've gotta see that dogs are presenting with these things all the time. That, you know, that we have a need for so many canine or pet onco— you know, veterinary oncologists. You know, and granted, I can understand that I doubt that they have time to go home and sit and scour through studies. But there's gotta be a way to, to ask for a little more accountability because these are still the people that we're counting on to help us raise healthier dogs. And while I am okay with taking some responsibility by educating myself, especially if I'm going to say, "I want to feed my dog this way," then I, I'm okay with going the extra mile to make sure I'm doing it correctly. I want the veterinarians to do something, to at least acknowledge, you know, and I've spoken to people since then who, you know, where veterinarians, what, where will they'll recommend? Like I, they don't have the experience with nutrition, but they know a veterinarian nutritionist, so they'll refer their clients to them. I've never had anyone offer to refer me to anyone other than to an oncologist when my dog had cancer. So it's just—

Or, you know, like a cardiologist or a neurologist or, you know.

Exactly. Like I didn't know the damage that like putting Scout on steroids would do, in that it wasn't just temporary damage, but it was something that it would take forever. Like, he basically, in the time that he had left, he would never— his organs would never recover from being exposed to steroids. No one explained that to me. And that's not something that I would even know to look up.

And— Or antibiotics, right? They don't talk to you about the damage that antibiotics can do or the damage of giving the wrong antibiotic when you don't— Culture test things.

Yeah. I mean, and, and it's like, and even if it's like, even if ultimately you're going to have to give your dog antibiotics, can we please have the discussion of how can we do the least amount of damage? How can we repair the gut microbiome? I mean, we're not, we're not doing any of that. And it's like, is it really wrong for me to want to see that, to want to, um, it's like, Just because I'm asking for accountability doesn't mean that I'm criticizing them. It doesn't mean that I think that I'm better or smarter than them. I am saying that I am spending a lot of money with you for my dogs. I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth if your answer to everything is antibiotics, steroids, allergy shots, and prescription kibble.

Yeah. Right?

You know, and you— and I don't understand how you can think that that's still the answer when you're constantly prescribing these things. And I just don't understand it.

So who did you have on the panel having the discussion?

That's a very good question. It was Dr. Andrew Jones, Dr. Lily Chen, Dr. Sue Howell, and Dr. Odette Suter. I'm so proud of myself.

Yeah. Well, you know, it might have been interesting to ask them like, well then why did you get into this kind of medicine?

Mm-hmm.

You know?

I mean, we did talk about that and a little bit, but it was, I want it more. I just want it more. And I, and I, and I think that, you know, we talked about it afterwards, um, Ruby and I, and I was just like, I just want, I want people who aren't afraid. And not to say that they were afraid, I just think we had a group of very nice, friendly people. I think the most contentious person on that panel was probably Dr. Odette Souter, and she is so not contentious. So it's just like, I just— I want people up there that aren't afraid to disagree. So, and the person that I immediately thought of was Brian of, um, Raw Dog Food. You know, I always wanna say Raw Dog Food Truth because I feed my dogs raw dog food, but the brand Raw Dog Food. Yeah, Raw Dog Food and Company is what it is. Thank you. But he's one of those people where he and I, we, we message back and forth all the time, and he and I don't agree on many things when it comes to feeding dogs. His approach to encouraging people and helping people transition is very different than my approach. And I think the reason why it's very different is because he's actively doing it on a daily basis, whereas I'm not. So, and he's very much of, no, we're not going to do the add raw to kibble. We're not adding fresh food to the bowl. We're not going back and forth. We're not doing a hybrid diet. We're kicking the kibble out the door and we're feeding raw. And I'm like, oh no, let's meet people where they are and let's help them, you know, gradually. But honestly, I think the way he goes about it, is the right way. I just, my thing is I don't trust people, probably the same way some veterinarians don't trust people to follow through and actually get it done. And so my thought is I'm, I'm so afraid of overwhelming and turning people off that I tend to take it a little easier.

I mean, I feel like, you know, it's one of those things where everybody has their audience, right? And I feel like You know, it makes sense. I know I'm getting smacked in the head by Daisy girl while I'm trying to talk here. Um, but, uh, yeah, like you're, you're speaking to the people who are like, I'm really curious, but I don't know where to start. And yeah, and he's speaking to the people that are like, we're all in it, you know, it's two different people and that's okay.

Yeah.

And I like, like you said, I like hearing different perspectives and getting different And that's what—

and that's kind of what I want to see future. If they invite me back to do another panel next year, that's definitely what I want to go through is just really pull people onto the panel that I know for a fact have strong opinions and aren't afraid to share them. They're not afraid to disagree because, I mean, Brian and I have been friends for a while. We will sit down. He's like, I was so disappointed that he wasn't at Feed Real this year because I'm going to sneeze. Oh, I'm going to sneeze. I'm going to mute myself so I don't sneeze into the mic. And of course, I'm now that I'm talking about it, the sneeze just went away. But, um, he's one of the people that I very much look forward to hanging out with because we do have these spirited, great discussions and it's never combative. We're not mad at each other or anything like that. It's just really kind of fun. And I think it's because we can both acknowledge, like, I get where you're coming from. It's like, I, I get where you're coming from, but this is what I think. And it reminds me a little bit of when I used to have meals with Billie, Roxane, and Jacqueline back in the day, and they would be having— we would all just be sitting there watching as they're talking to each other. And my favorite thing that Billie said once, and I, I think it was to Jacqueline, and he was just sort of like, I hear what you're saying, but here's why you're wrong. And he goes on, and they're just eating and talking. And it's like, this is how it should be. We should be able to do that.

Yeah, and I think there is something to be said about the world right now that that type of discourse seems to be less and less common. But yeah, it's definitely a mix of people, personalities, and a topic that can give you enough controversy, if you will, to have differing opinions on.

Yeah, like another question I asked was, you know, with the growing number of people who are taking the steps to earn a certification and learn these things, it's like, do you feel that we're stepping on your toes or is there a line that we need to try to avoid crossing?

Or would you welcome, or, you know, or you want to partner?

I was impressed that they said, and again, given the environment that we were in, and I shouldn't have been surprised. But they were like, yeah, we, we welcome this because we don't have time always to go into details of things like that. And it's nice to have someone else that can take that on and help someone formulate a meal. And I loved hearing that. But I still would also like to hear about what is that line? Like where, and maybe it's a matter of getting someone on the panel or just plain interviewing someone who is part of a veterinarian organization where they know the laws. Because that's where I was, I was kind of hoping that that would come out too. Um, I think next time though, I'm going to minimize my questions. I had 3 pages of questions and just really be able to give myself time to hone in on a lot of things. But, but otherwise it was really great.

Well, I just have to say that I think it was very special of you to be able to be like, oh, you know, I wish I had done this better, and to kind of say that publicly. And I just think that that's a really special thing about you, because I would just be beating myself up internally and never be able to speak the words out of my mouth.

I mean, it's like I'm still doing— because it's like one of those where it's like, damn it, when it was over and like an hour had gone by, I was so disappointed. And I, I like wanted to apologize to Ruby because I felt— and everyone's like, Kimberly, you did a good job.

I'm sure everybody else I should have asked them this.

I wanted this.

But you have like the vision in your head, right?

Yeah. And it's just like, I'm just sitting here like, what is happening? And Ruby asked me, she's like, do you think it would've gone better if you had more time? And it's like, I needed more time to get where I needed to go, but I'm the reason I didn't have more time because I ate it up with other questions. But I had no idea that, you know, because I always talk to everyone before we go out there and I had a very different vibe. Before we got out there than I— than what we actually ended up doing. And it's no one's fault, not even my fault. It's just the way it is. But I just, you know, I know what I wanted to see. Like, I wanted to hear about, um, like, I asked another question of, you know, what is like something where you are not going to budge on? So like, for instance, um, there's a veterinarian here, Dr. Donna Kelleher, And for her to help you with cancer, canine cancer, your dog cannot have been on steroids. If your dog has been on steroids, she can't help you. And there's no talking her out of it. She will recommend you to someone that's just as good as her, which is what she did for me, and it was amazing, but she was not going to treat Scout. And so I asked that question and explained that, and I still felt like I didn't get an answer. And, and it's one of those things where maybe it's not an easy question to answer, but you know, I wanna hear that, you know, if you're going to work with me, you're going to have to feed raw, period.

That's my vet. Or not rawness, but you know, fresh food.

But fresh food. Yeah. Yeah.

Like she's like, you know, she, she kind of had that conversation with me one time. She's like, I'm not working with people who aren't going to Yeah. Do that because it, that's the foundation of everything. Like, I'm not like, why are we doing the, all these other things, spending all this other time and money if you're not gonna do like the everyday basic thing that I need you to do to get to move the needle, you know?

And yeah. And I think that that's basically what the answer was, except for with, you know, Dr. Jones, because he doesn't practice. And it's just sort of like, you know, that was just kind of a dumb question maybe to ask. In this space? Because I kind of thought that that was a no-brainer, or maybe I should have said besides feed fresh food, but I was kind of looking for, is there something that they recommend to all of their clients, like at some form, like, you know, people who do homeopathy or people who do traditional Chinese medicine, so they're going to come up with an herbal blend for all of their clients, or someone who's very much into essential oils and so, or someone who's very much into functional mushrooms. And so I was curious about that. Like, is there something that they're— they constantly find themselves recommending on a regular basis? But I didn't really get that. So yeah, that was like my— that was my only disappointment was me. That was my only disappointment with the entire event. I was just like, all of those people on the panel, they were all lovely, amazing people. Meeting Dr. Jones was so exciting. I was so curious about him. He's so nice. All of them are. I mean, Lily Chin is so soft-spoken. And Dr. Sue Howell is— she does telemedicine. And so that was really fun. I would have loved to just on one, like separate from a panel, learn more about how does telemedicine work, especially if it's someone in another state. Because some places say that you have to be able to lay hands on an animal. And how do you get her? If that's the case, how do you get around it?

Or else, yeah, or else you have to like work with your vet and your vet can consult, or you have to have at least like an existing relationship where, yeah, each state does it differently. And I think the AVMA is finally starting to issue some guidelines about it. Yeah.

So, you know, things like, I mean, all of them were fascinating. Dr. Andre Jones was of course my favorite because I followed him for, you know, over a decade. Yeah. And learning about, you know, studying that, but he, I also found out, 'cause he asked me, you know, what do you do besides this? He's like, oh, so this isn't your job? And I'm like, no, I'm an accountant. He's like, oh, so I could ask you accounting questions. And I'm like, no, I'm not a CPA. And, um, but he's, he's, um, told me, you know, what he was, what he wanted to know. And I was like, I can't help you with that. My boss probably could because he actually is a CPA and he's pretty much, I was like, I have a, you know, one of my you know, very dear friends could help you, but she's no longer a practicing CPA. She's a nurse. And then of course there's my boss. And so I was just like, do you want to see if my boss can answer your questions? He's like, would you? So I texted my boss. We're out to dinner late. I texted my boss and he gets back to me and says, well, what does he want? What, you know, tell me more about what he needs. And so I sent it back to him and he was like, yeah, I can talk to him. And he was like, just, he was like, give him my phone number. And then give me his phone number so I know it when it comes up on my phone. I love it. I was just like, thank you so much. It's like you made me look so cool.

You'll appreciate this as an accountant. So one of my best friends, she was an accounting major and then went into finance, so she does all like the projections and all that kind of stuff. Well, anyway, she has a son who's 5 years old and he's in kindergarten, and when he gets done his you know, his like worksheets in class, he turns them over and writes for himself math problems out and just like makes it and like he does them accurately. Like, so he'll have like, you know, 2 2, 3 3, 10 10.

Oh my God.

And it'll be this whole sheet of math problems. And I'm just like, oh yeah, he's your kid. Yeah.

That's so amazing. That's so awesome. Yeah, it was a, it was a phenomenal event. It really was. It was kind of cool getting there on the date, first date, and watching them set up because I've usually only arrived after everything has been set up. And so it's astounding how much— oh yeah, they have to do to set up.

I mean, it looks like such a beautiful event with like— yes, they put the graphics on the floor that you're following. Yes, the big inflatable. Like, I, I just, I, you know, especially with what my husband does, I notice all of these little details, you know.

Yeah, I mean, I, I sat there and watched all of that. It was so amazing. And then there, um, I didn't get a gift bag. I'm sure I probably could have gone and asked for one, but I didn't think that was appropriate. But the gift bags were so generous. Um, full-size products in them. Um, there are people who did get gift bags and they've done videos about them. But oh, um, Kenzie saw Kenzie. I love Kenzie. I made a point of just basically tell Nick I said hi if you talk to him tonight. But my best part was that I can't remember, it was on the panel and I can't remember what the discussion was, but I think it came, something came up with like, and it was in the discussion about the CPCNs, but about the responsibility that influencers and content creators have to share accurate information. And I just immediately looked at Kenzie. And she was looking at me and I was just like, and she was like, exactly. And I was like, you know, I was like, kind of like people who suddenly come out and try to convince the world that raw goat's milk is dangerous. Ah, Chelsea Kemp's presentation was phenomenal and she sent me her slides, so I will forward those to you.

Oh, that's amazing.

Hers was really good.

I saw something about, oh, it must have been Hannah's presentation that everybody wanted the slides for that.

Oh yeah. I know hers was really good.

I mean, it was—

hers was so phenomenal.

Oh, my leg is being humped. I've been getting this girl too riled up.

My dogs are all sleeping. They were so happy to see me.

This is why we can't do video, guys, because the whole time I'm just trying to fend off I was like, well, first of all, I don't feel like doing hair and makeup.

I just don't wanna. If we ever do do videos, then it'll just be this where a dog is clawing at Erin's face or dragging her out of the camera frame. I'm occasionally getting up and leaving and coming back.

Well, we were talking about doing research and I found out about a very nerdy tool today and I just signed up for it. I'll have a link for everybody in the show notes and it's free and it's called Zotero. It is your personal research assistant, a free, easy-to-use tool that'll help you collect, organize, annotate, cite, and share research. And you can connect it to your PubMed account and you can have it look for certain studies containing certain terms and it'll pull things all together for you. Oh my God, the possibilities are endless.

I know, I just found it.

So very excited.

I know. Well, it's funny because, um, one of the things that Dr. Connor Brady touched on was ChatGPT, and I use ChatGPT. I love it. I think it's phenomenal. Um, it is, it is truly things. Yeah, it is truly absolutely phenomenal. And I was like, and then, yeah, if you're using it correctly. If you're using it to replace your work, then it's not so phenomenal.

I, I did a test run of that for something with my— that I did at work, and I had put a bunch of time in, and I was like two-thirds of the way done, and I was like, Could I have done this quicker if I had ChatGPT'd it? No. No.

And is that, well, that's just it is that, um, I'm trying to think. I mean, I know that there's another thing that's probably similar, but with ChatGPT, you have to be very specific. I mean, it's like probably talking to like an assistant that has no idea what you're doing or anything. You have to be very specific about what you want. And you have to hope.

That's exactly what it's like.

And you have to hope that it gets it to you because it'll, it'll make stuff up. I mean, ChatGPT is similar to social media algorithms where it gets to know you and it gets to know what you want and it'll start delivering it to you. So you cannot just assume that everything that it says is correct. So what I use ChatGPT to do is I'll write something. And then I'll put it in there and just say, can you make this better? Like, clear out the grammar errors and things like that. So that's a really great thing to do. If I want, when I'm doing captions for social media, same thing, but I'm telling it this is what I want it to do. And then if it's wrong, I'm like, no, it needs to do this. And you know, because ChatGPT has told me that garlic is toxic for dogs. It's told me that raw bones are, and I've had to like, well, no, this is good. And, and I, it's not 100%. And it's funny because I feel like people are afraid that people are going to just, like bloggers, just going to start using ChatGPT. And it's like, you know, if no one's reading their stuff, it's fine. But if anyone is reading their stuff, someone's going to be like, yeah, this isn't right. Especially because it will cite studies. It'll say studies say. And then you're like, well, what study says— and I don't know about ChatGPT. I haven't actually had this experience with ChatGPT, but I have had it with other AI apps where it'll tell me about studies saying, and I'll ask them what studies. And then they're like, well, I can't give you, because, you know, they're not able— like that particular app isn't able to search the internet to go and find the study and bring it back and tell you. They're not able to do that. But it's telling you. That, you know, studies say. So that was something that Connor Brady brought up in his thing is that, you know, this isn't— because I mean, I did the recipes with ChatGPT and they were supposed to be balanced to, I think, to NRC. They were not. Not one of them.

Yeah, I had a funny experience where I uploaded a chart. Like, this is what I'm doing. This is what I want. Let me send you 30 pages and just make it all look like this. And I got back this hot mess. Yeah, it kind of looks like what I said, but it was like not thorough, not at all. And I'm like, what about this? What about that? Oh yeah. And like every single time it would just send me something totally different, totally like not what I want. I'm like, oh yeah, this thing. Yeah, don't think it's a, it's a workaround for everything, but it is. Yeah, if you want to send an email and that's like, uh, I don't like this person and yes, I want, but I'm trying to be nice and this is what I want to say, can you make it sound professional? But it's good.

Yeah, it was. I think that that's just it, is that that's what I've mainly used it for. And I feel like it has saved my butt when someone has sent me a nasty email and I needed to respond in a, you know, a kind, respectful way, but I just did not have it in me to do so.

Yeah.

I would basically just write out— I would do an attempt and just explain that this is— I need this I need to send this email. Actually, one time I just wrote out what I wanted to say and just said, I need to send an email to this person who was very rude to me, but I don't want to be rude in return. I want to show empathy and da, da, da, da. And the response was beautiful. It was a really great response. And I was just so relieved. I made a couple tweaks, but I felt pretty proud of it. So I think there are tons of limitations, but I think it's a really great tool when used correctly.

So one of my favorite things that you said about it was that your takeaway for the whole thing was kind of like, it depends. And that's like a, just a really good insight that it always does depend. It depends on your dog and, you know, feed the dog in front of you. Like it always depends. There's no catch-all.

Yeah, it was, it was the, um, the first night I hosted a trivia event with, with Nicole of UmReal Dog Box and, um, We gave— we— well, first, we pulled together the tables, and I basically bullied people into participating because it's like, we're going to do this. We're going to start this night off. So everyone got together. And I should have been paying attention, but I didn't notice until it was— till we were all settled that I have a table of Dr. Katie Kangas, Barry— Dr. Barry Sands, Chelsea Kent, Dr. Connor Brady, Dr. Barbara Royal, Jessica, who works with Dr. Katie Kangas, was there. And there were other people too. All at one table. And so, and everyone's complaining about, it's not fair that they get to do together. And they were basically, everything was, it depends. And the question that just comes to mind first, 'cause it was the first question, was which of these are secreting organs? And it was, you got, it was multiple choice. So it was heart, spleen, lung, or none of the above.

So you would think spleen.

Yeah. That, that's what we were looking for was spleen. But they went on to start explaining what heart secretes, what lungs secrete, and he is going— and they did this with every single question where I was— I think that there was one question that they were like, okay, we will circle this. And I think it was something about which food does— cleans teeth, is known to clean teeth. And it was raw meaty bones. And so I think they, they allowed for that one. But it was just like they had something to say and it was— everything was, well, well, it depends. Well, it depends. And, um, Dr. Kangas told a story about how when she was in school, she had this teacher that, um, that's what he would say. And he would— whenever anyone had a question, his response was always, well, it depends. And, and it was so much that they had t-shirts made that had, it depends on So it was just like, it was so funny. But the more, as the weekend went on, that became, oh my God, there's a squirrel outside. Usually we don't get squirrels like right up on our property. We get rabbits, but squirrels kind of stay away.

Hmm.

Anyway, but that was what was interesting is that everything that went on for the rest of the weekend, the answer was, it depends. You know, people, even now people send me questions, they ask me questions, and it's like, you know, that's, I may not say it, but you know, that's what it is. Like for instance, over the weekend someone sent me a message or, um, asking me about bone broth and they're like, well, my dog also has allergies. And I think I put this in the article, my dog also has allergies, you know, so should I stop feeding bone broth? And it's like, well, it depends on if it's allergies or not, 'cause it could also be all of these things that present with these same symptoms. And, and I mean, you can try if you want to just like do a test to see, 'cause that's basically what I did with Buffy is, you know, I felt like, you know, she's brand new to the world, so I, I didn't think it was gonna be anything else, um, that was more serious. So I went with the, let's treat this like it's environmental allergies and see if it worked. And it did work. But, you know, that may not be the case with all dogs because it depends.

Yeah.

Yeah. You would've loved it. You would've loved being there. Oh, and you know, and, uh, Dr. Rob Silver was there.

Yeah.

Joni was there. I got to meet Britta. Britta. Yeah. I got to meet Britta. She's pretty kind of cool.

Yeah. She does like the whole van life thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. Yeah.

And I asked her, I was like, oh, do you film it and, you know, document on social media? She's like, no. I was like, good for you.

Good for you. It's almost like you didn't know it was possible.

I know.

To do van life and not share it on TikTok.

You mean your life isn't content for all of us to critique and consume?

But I will say she had some excellent van life recommendations that I shared with my husband because he watches a lot of that stuff on YouTube.

Oh yeah.

So she got him hooked on like a couple new accounts.

Yeah. So she was, she was a lot of fun, but yeah, there is a, A lot of people there that were just, you know, they're still trying to get convinced me to take Dr. Ruth Roberts' course. And I just had to explain, it's like, it's kind of hard to justify spending $5,000 on something that I don't plan on using. Because it's like, I really, I mean, I actually have changed my mind about offering consultations because I get so many questions. I just don't want to charge a lot of money and I want to be very clear on what I do, which is I will formulate a recipe because I've been doing that a lot for people. Speaking of which, I formulated a recipe that does not include organ meat.

Oh yeah.

I was quite impressed with myself. I was also surprised about the amount of vegetables that are needed in some of these recipes. Hmm.

So, but yeah, you have to ask Dr. Connor Brady.

I know I have to ask Connor Brady. It's like, so yeah, he, his pre— his presentation is always really good. Have you seen him speak?

Not live.

Yeah, his— oh, and it's funny because I was teasing him about his Facebook posts and how long they are because it's like, good gravy, man. But— and then he gave me a hard time about Grey's Anatomy. He was like, I'm so sick of it. He's like, I keep getting these notifications that you spoke about, you liked something, or you commented on something about Grey's Anatomy. He's like, gosh, stop it. I don't care about this. I'm not in any way interested in your thoughts on Grey's Anatomy. Grey's Anatomy. And I was just like, I can't believe you're being so mean to me. But it turns out his wife is very much into Grey's Anatomy too. And it's funny because that— I, I didn't realize I talked so much about Grey's Anatomy until this event. And it's not that it came up all the time, but it came up enough that you're literally Clearly, people understand that I love that show. And it's funny because people were asking me, "But aren't they coming into their, like, 21st season?" And I was like, "I don't know. I only watched it to season 13." And some people were like, you know, "If you know, you know." And it's just like— and a couple people asked, like, "Why did you stop watching it? Why is it only season 13?" And if anyone is listening to this and is curious, the answer is, is because the show went from addressing issues to preaching about issues. And that's like a big deal to me. And I, I just had a, you know, having— yeah, it was just too much. So I, I watch up to season 13 and then I rewatch. And I, I, I get it.

It's—

I rewatch shows because I have— I like knowing what's going to happen. It's my comfort.

I've heard that that's a thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel com— I love it. Except for, you know, there are a few shows that I just re— I watch. Like, I'm getting back into, um, what's her name?

Elsbeth? Elsbeth. Yes.

That show is— I mean, how can it be so good? And I'm so into it. And I, I was so upset when I thought her son was gonna break up with his boyfriend because they were so— and, and she and her son's boyfriend were so cute with their little ET finger touches and stuff. I mean, I love that show so much.

Do you watch High Potential also?

I did. Is it back?

Yes. Yeah. Like, if Tim ever leaves me, it'll be for her.

He's obsessed with that.

That's like exactly how his brain works.

I just, I love that show. I love, um, what is this? The one, the guy?

Oh, uh, Will Trent. Will Trent. Yeah, Will Trent.

You know, so it's like those are the shows that I really enjoy. I enjoy those 3 shows. Um, I mean, there are other shows. I actually don't think that there are other new shows that I watch. I think I watch those 3 shows as new shows. Everything else is old stuff.

So I do have to mention my favorite video of from Feed Reel is that, uh, Odette Suter gave Connor Brady a chiropractic adjustment. Yes, I was there.

I took that picture.

Oh yeah, it was—

no, she was teaching us, um, muscle testing. Muscle testing. And it was so fun. And there was another one in there. She's from Australia. I don't remember her name, but she dressed like— I want to call her Australian Barbie. Because she— this woman was stunningly beautiful and just— and she wore these outfits that were so cool. And she was just like, oh, she was so amazing. And Odette taught us, and she helped— like, she fixed my wrist. Of course, it's back now, but she fixed it for the weekend. And she fixed Connor's back. And then so she showed us what to do, and we were— Connor and I were doing it on each other. And then it was just like, and then we got excited cuz she was talking about how you can use it to test, um, supplements and figure out if it's supplements. So I ran inside and grabbed every supplements from everyone's table and was just, cuz I was just like, we're muscle testing outside. And they're like, yes, take, take supplements. And so we did that. And then, so this woman was there and, and so we were both gonna test on her and she was so freaking strong. We could not get her arm to go down. And Odette was like, yes, you can. And she's just like, see right here. And we're like, no, it's like we could not figure it out. But, um, it was, it's not, it's very simple, but not, if that makes sense. It's one of those things where if it didn't happen or if I didn't experience it, because I usually am woken up several times a night with pain in my wrist. And for the weekend, it just wasn't a thing for the rest of the weekend.

Wow.

It didn't bother me at all. And it was very interesting just to— like, little steps. And I wanted to do it to Johan because it's like, anyone who is like, oh, this is just woo-woo, would probably be like, oh, here we go. But it worked. It truly, truly worked.

I have heard that it worked. Poppy, when we had Poppy on, I knew she's big on that. Yeah.

And was— yeah, so it was funny. So yeah, I took pictures. That was a good picture. There's another picture. That's my funny picture of the muscle testing. I, um, I did send them both to, um, to, um, Dr. Brady, but, um, I'll, I'll share the other picture with you because it's pretty darn hilarious.

Well, there's a whole video on Facebook. I'll post it for everybody. Oh my gosh. Well, I was trying to think what's, uh, are they coming back next year, FeedReal?

Yeah, they plan to. They were selling it, do the The VIP tickets, I think, or maybe the early bird, I should say, tickets were $99. All right. When we were on Sunday. I don't know if it's still going on right now, but so yeah, they, they do still plan on, I mean, I think it's, it's, I just think it's a really amazing event and I'm really grateful just to be invited back to do it. It's a lot of fun. And the people, it was, you know, it was a really a lot of fun. I spoke to this gentleman and I, if I had my business cards, I'd be able to give these people shoutouts. But he is from India. He's a holistic veterinarian in, I think in, I don't know if he said he, he was at, if he did it in LA or at one point in time he was in LA. But he came afterwards and was like, had very strong opinions about why veterinarians don't do holistic. And he just basically said that there's no money in it. And he was like, you have to understand that the, Pharmaceutical and veterinarian education, you know, industries have basically set up veterinarians so that they own them for the rest of their career because they're taking out all of these loans to go to school. He's like, I've known people that have taken out, like, upwards of $1 million in loans to get education, and now they have to pay this back. And you can— you just don't make money with holistic medicine. He's like, if you're curing everyone who comes into your clinic, You know, he's like, you make money on people coming back and then you have these pharmaceutical companies coming in. And he, and he was just like, and he was sort of like, and you know, with that situation where you have to pay bills, you have to pay overhead, you have a clinic because you want it to be big so you can start paying, you can start paying these bills down. And he was like, it becomes easier to convince yourself that what they're saying is true, that holistic medicine is wrong, is dangerous, and all of that. Fresh food is dangerous. It becomes easy to convince yourself of that. And then on the flip side, he's like, he knows holistic, or people who claim to be holistic veterinarians and are using that title to charge people out the wazoo and are still not giving them the, you know, the results that you would expect. And so he's like, he's met with people who have drained their savings to save their dog, and their dog is still sick. And then, you know, a couple visits with him and their dog is now better because he actually is practicing holistic medicine. And so he says there's a lot of that out there as well, where there are just, you know, people who aren't, you know, who are taking advantage. And it was just kind of just a disappointing and, bummer take on what's going— I mean, I, I know this isn't across the board, but it's based what his experience is and what he's seen. And it was just kind of just a bummer take on it.

Well, you know, it was interesting. I spoke to someone recently, a veterinarian who was disappointed at the number of vets who are seeking acupuncture training. Basically, they're conventional vets who are like, oh, well, it's another revenue stream. And they're not interested in learning like the Traditional Chinese Medicine philosophy and, you know, the diet and the herb and the, you know, the real medicine behind it, but that it's just, oh, well, people will pay for this and, you know, I wanna learn it kind of thing. And I was just like, well, that's a depressing sentiment.

Yeah. Well, because I mean, traditional Chinese medicine is so about, so much about energy. And if your energy going into it is cha-ching, mm-hmm, then you're not gonna have the results. That's the other thing is he talked about the fact that people are putting money and ego ahead of the pets. And so he's like, that's why you're seeing a lot. And he was— and I, it was, it smacks of truth, especially the pharmaceutical side. I mean, why, why look for the reason why a dog has allergies when you can just give a dog Cytopoint injections? I mean, and it's not that I'm against Cytopoint injections, I'm just against them as the cure. I'm, I see them as something—

'Cause it's not a cure.

Yeah. I'm, you get some, some relief while you then find the underlying cause and do some corrections. And that's what's just kind of a bummer to me. But it was just, it was kind of, um, or I shouldn't say kind of, it was very much exciting and refreshing to talk to a veterinarian that spoke like that. Especially after being on a panel where everyone was just like, oh, you know, we gotta come together. It's, it's not us against them. And I, I agree with that as well, but it was just sort of like, I think we can still start having some serious, honest conversations about what's going on in the state of pet health today with, you know, and that doesn't mean that we have to be on different sides and it doesn't mean that we're sowing division. It just means that, you know, at some point in time we need to say something's wrong.

Well, and that goes back to our conversation last week about all the tons of corn, that there's more corn being used in pet food than meat.

Yeah. So that was Feed Real.

All right. I wanna make it out there one of these years.

Oh, I know.

Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much, guys. We'll be back next week.

Thanks for listening.