MtoM #88 - Sports Medicine Doc Pays Off $287,000 in 2 Years

This is the White Coat Investor Podcast Milestones to Millionaire Celebrating stories of success along the journey to financial freedom, this Milestones to millionaire podcast number 88, Sports Medicine Doc, pays off $287,000 in two years still not sure what to do with your student loans? Overwhelmed with how to tackle that giant debt in an ever changing political climate, the experts@studentloanadvice.com are here to help guide you through the best options to manage your loans. Our experienced staff have consulted on over $250 million in student loan debt and the average studentloanadvice.com client has saved over $190,000. You will receive a customized student loan plan using the principles of the White Coat Investor. Get answers to all of your student loan questions, gain clarity about your financial future, and start down the right path toward financial freedom. Book a consult today@studentloanadvice.com you can do this and the White Coat Investor can help. If you haven't heard any of these Milestone to Millionaire podcasts before, this is a podcast where we celebrate you and your accomplishments when you reach a financial milestone, whatever that milestone might be, it might be paying off your car or paying off your student loans or getting back to broke or hitting a net worth milestone of 100,000 or a million or 10 million. Whatever it might be with, we want to celebrate it with you and use your experience to inspire others to do the same. The way we do that though is we need your help. We need you to apply@whitecoatinvestor.com Milestones to come on this show and to share your experience so that others can benefit from it. So please do that. We'd love to celebrate with you and congratulate you on your accomplishments. Let's get our interview for today on the Line. I think you're going to love this one. Our guest today on the Milestones to millionaire podcast is Dr. Kellen Gower. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. Thank you Dr. Datley. Very nice to be here.

So this is a really interesting podcast to record. While you are not listening to this until October 17th ish, we were recording it on September 28th as we recorded I'm sitting here in Salt Lake with thunder booming over my head as some storm comes over. But worse, Kellen is sitting in just north of Tampa and Hurricane Ian is actually landing on shore as we are talking. So hopefully we get through this interview. He assures me he's safe and that it's quite a bit south of where he's at. But to all of you in Florida right now. We're thinking of you as this hurricane comes through and may you all be safe. In the meantime, let's celebrate what you have done, Dr. Gower, because it is remarkable. Congratulations to you, by the way, for paying off your student loans.

Thank you. Thank you. It's been a, seems like a long journey and you know, as I was mentioning a minute ago, I've kind of been a fanboy for the last several years now since the, probably since the book first went on audible and I was able to listen to it on an airplane ride during medical school. And so I've kind of been trying to practice as much of the topics and things as you've been preaching for, you know, a decade now. And so it's, it's really, it's been a good journey so far and obviously still a long way to go, but definitely a first milestone here.

Awesome. Well, let's talk about the milestone. How much did you pay off in total?

$287,000.

$287,000 in what time period?

Two years. So officially my two year mark was after being out of residency and fellowship was August of this year. And so I've not actually paid the money off yet since everything's sitting at zero percent interest right now. I've actually got most of that chunk and high interest savings account right now and a couple other things. But it's sitting there ready to go whenever the due date comes, comes available.

Yeah, so we're about three months from that. I think they're actually serious this time. I think it really is going to end at the end of the year. I guess you never know for sure. But I knew the last one was going to be extended. This one. I think they're actually going to stop doing this.

I think they're serious on this one. And then to kind of throw another kink in the ranch in a good way. But the state of Florida has actually passed a new law as of January that primary care Doctors actually get $20,000 in student loan forgiveness if you work in a rural area. So I'm in about as rural areas that can get. I actually practice about an hour and a half north of Tampa. And so, you know, I think that'll be something else I'll need to consider in terms of do I really want to pay the whole thing off in one lump sum or do I want to let, you know, kind of wait and strategize that a little bit too?

Yeah, you may want to keep 20, 40, 60, something like that on there. And let the great state of Florida take care of that for you. That's a nice benefit for them to come up with. See, I hate, I kind of hate these programs. I love them, but I hate them. Right? I love that people are helping docs pay off their student loans. I hate the moral hazard that it brings, right? Not only questions like this, should you pay it off or now maybe drag it off over a few more years to get a little bit of that, you know, quote unquote free money. But I've actually got medical students writing in to me asking, should I take out more in loans than I actually need? Because I think I may go for PSLF and, and get them forgiven. So I kind of hate the complications and the constantly changing environment that people are in for student loans just because it, you know, there's some incentive there to do the quote unquote wrong thing with your student loans sometimes. But at any rate, congratulations to you on saving up enough to pay them off. At any rate.

Thank you.

Tell us, tell us what you're doing. You're a family medicine, sports medicine doc, correct?

Yeah. So kind of range of incomes along the way whenever we, we got started, obviously kind of most residents, 45 to $52,000 each year. Starting my second and third years of residency, I did try to moonlight as often as possible, so I was probably an extra 15, $18,000 in moonlight income during those second, third years. Fellowship actually took a year step back, it was capped at $45,000. Fellowship year. Still tried to moonlight a little bit on the side.

That's interesting. I don't recall ever hearing somebody get paid less as a fellow than as a resident, but I guess it can happen.

I was fortunate. I trained at some of the best programs around and with some fantastic mentors, but the fellowship was done. So the doctors, the salary came out of their own pocket and so they were going to pay the minimum. The experience was well worth it. I wouldn't take it back for a second, but no, it definitely took a step back for fellowship year and then obviously been able to kind of make that up now as an attending afterwards.

So was there somebody else helping? Did you have a spouse or partner making money with you? Did you get money from parents? Was there an inheritance, anything like that?

No. I come from a low middle income family. They worked very hard. Grew up on a farm in actually Tennessee before moving to Florida. Money was probably the least amount of thing talked about, but work every day, getting up, dealing with horses, things like that, kind of instilled a lot with me in terms of my approach with medicine and everything. My wife was a cardiac stenographer. Thankfully she didn't have any loans, but we didn't use any of her income to help with the debt payment along the way. I did buy townhouse my first year residency and that turned out to be a good deal just because of the way the market fell. I know it's kind of a, you know, 50, 50 whenever that type of thing happens. I did sell it when the housing market was starting to peak last summer and so I took about a net $70,000 profit on that. But $20,000 in our house, we did a back patio and then the other $50,000 I put aside for student loans.

Cool.

So outside of that, but no other inheritances or anything else, Everything has just been from income.

Well, tell us. I mean, obviously the house helped a little bit, but how did you do this? I mean, you don't make that much money to pay off $287,000 in two years. How'd you do this?

I think that's part of, you know, kind of where it family medicine is. Probably one of the things we're trying to help get out, get the word out, is that family medicine doctors can have a good income too. You know, when I my first year out, I negotiate hard with one of our employers. You know, even though I kind of planned on going with them all along, I definitely used leverage and contract negotiations and things with them. So my first year income was 300,000 and getting ready for this podcast, actually had my comp meeting the other day. With my second year out now I'm actually on par for almost $600,000 this year.

Wow.

So, you know, we've definitely kind of taken a multi approach to this. Just like we do with family medicine when it comes to, you know, kind of being a jack of all trades is try to be control our spending, increase the income coming in and then kind of have a balanced approach with our investments and things like that.

So you've been saving up investments along the way as well?

We have, we have. I've kind of, you know, been maxing out our Roth 401k since residency, now doing the backdoor Roth now that as an attending been putting money into our HSA accounts. I've got, you know, I bonds as well. Kind of the topic here recently we've been talking about on the show. You know, I've been putting money into my brokerage account and things like that. So I've been trying to do the long term investments along with the short term and as we kind of go along and take a balanced approach to it, but definitely steering towards the student loans early was. Was a big deal, was a big goal of mine.

Well, you're well past broke now. What's your net worth up to approximately?

You actually had me kind of doing some of the numbers here recently with everything. So I think our net worth is up around about 300,000 now or 400,000. So we started off negative 287, and now we're up to, you know, positive at this point.

So you're clearly not spending a lot of this income that you're earning. I mean, this is almost all going toward building wealth, whether it's paying off your loans or whether it's, you know.

I've got twin girls now at home. I think the spending is definitely there at this point, especially the cost of diapers and formula these days. But no, I mean, we live very simply. You know, we try to go to a geographical arbitrage. You know, I live in a fairly low cost of living area, although the North Tampa area is getting definitely more expensive, for sure. You know, I definitely. Where we practice is a very rural area. So I've been able to kind of build my practice up very quickly, which was a goal. And. And we've tried to really work on, you know, growing our patients panel and everything up there quickly, which is, you know, a definite boon, especially for an early attending. You know, you spend a lot of your time trying to build your practice, and in this case, we've been able to build very quickly and grow very quickly up there. So kind of, like I said, kind of watching what we spend, but also making sure that we're working on the income side of it as well.

It helps not to be paying state income tax either, I imagine.

Yes, that's when I was looking at where I would live. It was pretty much Tennessee, Florida or Texas coming from the Southeast.

So you have had a fantastic start to your financial career. I mean, you guys are on par to end up as multimillionaires, maybe deca millionaires, Right? The last couple of years, looking back at the success you've had, was this easier or harder than you thought it would be? I mean, you've heard, you've been listening to the White Coat Investor and reading this stuff since you were a medical student. Now you're actually doing it the last couple of years easier or harder than you thought it'd be.

Man, looking back, you kind of realize how hard it's been. Just like you get through medical school or residency, you kind of take it one day at a time. I've been trying to put a lot of the principles you've been teaching for a long time now in place. We're starting to reap some of the harvest of that now, which is awesome. But, you know, it's a lot of hard work. I mean, as you know, building up the show and everything you've done, you know, you probably didn't look back at the time and realize where you're going to get to with it. And, you know, kind of the same way when it comes to building a practice or anything else, you know, I was very fortunate to work under some. Some fantastic mentors and things. I tried to learn as much as I could from both a medical and also a practice. You know, we also do a lot of teaching for one of our residency programs and have medical residents over. And part of what I tell them and try to teach them is, you know, how do you run an efficient clinic? How do you run an efficient practice, those type. So it's, you know, it's a lot of different things that come into it. Definitely doesn't happen overnight, but we've definitely been very fortunate. But we've definitely worked hard for it, too.

So somebody else is out there listening. Maybe a medical student, maybe an intern or somebody that kind of just found the white coat investor thinks, hey, maybe there's something good here. Maybe I should listen to this. What advice do you have for that person? They want to be like you. Two years out of residency, basically have your student loans paid off, be well on the route to building wealth. What advice do you have for them?

First off, listen to Jim Dolly. That's always, that's always a first. But, you know, it's really, you know, put your head down, work hard, obviously, and then try to make smart decisions along the way. You know, even if you're on a rotation or you're with somebody that, hey, hey, maybe I'm not going to get a lot medically out of this, you know, okay, look at how the practice is run. Look at how, you know, how can you make. Take something from somebody who's doing something successful and find a way to apply that to what you're doing. There's lots of great examples out there for how to practice medicine, how to run a business efficiently, how to run, do your finances, find people who are successful with it and mimic what they do. You don't always have to reinvent the wheel to be successful with things. And you kind of tailor those into Your own personal approach as you go along.

What's next for you? What's your next big financial goal?

Oh, we're talking about maybe building a house up close to my work. I do have about a 45 minute commute every day to an hour. So maybe getting closer to work would be nice, especially now that we have young kids. Obviously with the way the housing market and everything is, we'll probably no rush on that right now. But, you know, I think at this point my goals have been so long just, you know, get these student loans paid off. I don't like to owe somebody $5. I loan hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, you know, at this point, it's starting to look a little bit more big picture and that's going to be a new transition for us. You know, we're kind of looking at more long term things now. So, you know, I think the biggest thing for us is just kind of sticking with what's worked so far, you know, kind of making a plan, sticking with it. You know, putting that financial plan in place that you always talk about, making sure that we just stick with that in years to come, no matter what. What kind of comes our way.

Awesome. Well, congratulations to you on your success and thank you for coming on the podcast and using your story to inspire others to do the same.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

All right. That was a great interview. I hope you enjoyed it. You know, a lot of times we get criticized for only having people on here that make, you know, $800,000 a year and hardly have any student loans at all. But here we have somebody that is not in the highest paid specialty by any means and still managed to pay off almost $300,000 in just two years. So you can do this even if you're not, you know, super high income, Even if you have quite a bit of, you know, well above average student loan debt, you can still pay off your student loans. You can still pay them off relatively quickly. It doesn't require some sacrifice. Yes, you can't grow into your income all at once. You got to delay growing into that for a little while. But if you'll do that, you can be successful and you can get that student loan monkey off your back. Still not sure what to do with your student loans. Overwhelmed with how to tackle that giant debt. In an ever changing political climate, the experts@studentloanadvice.com are here to help guide you through the best options to manage your loans. Our experienced staff have consulted on over $250 million in student loan debt and the average student loan adv client has saved over $190,000. You will receive a customized student loan plan using the principles of the White Coat Investor. Get answers to all of your student loan questions, gain clarity about your financial future, and start down the right path toward financial freedom. Book a consult today@studentloanadvice.com you can do this. And the White Coat Investor can help. All right. Keep your head up, your shoulders back. You can do this. We can help. We'll see you next time on the Milestones to Millionaire podcast. The hosts of the White Code Investor Podcast are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is free entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.