WCI #321: The Family Board Meeting with Jim Shiels

This is the White Coat Investor Podcast where we help those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street. We've been helping doctors and other high income professionals stop doing dumb things with their money since 2011. This is White Coat Investor podcast number 321. The family board Meeting with Jim Shields Getting quality disability and life insurance should be the first financial chore for a doctor to complete. Most docs don't have the ideal policy for their gender, specialty, state or health status, and one in seven doctors get disabled at some point during their career. Because these policies can only be purchased through brokers, we put together a list of vetted agents who are experienced with working with the specific needs of medical professionals and who have your best interest at heart. If you have questions about insurance and what kind of policies would be the best fit for you, check out our insurance recommended list@whitecoatinvestor.com insurance and feel the peace of mind that comes with knowing you have the optimal policy in place. You can do this and the White Coat Investor can help. All right, it's great to be back with you. I've been off on a few trips, not the one I told you about though. We had to cancel our climb of Half Dome. The main reason was because it rains all summer in Yosemite these days. I think for 14 days straight it was supposed to rain in Yosemite and we just didn't want to be camping on a tiny little ledge hundreds of feet in the sky at 9,000ft getting rained on for some reason. So we've had to postpone that trip. But I was able to have a wonderful trip with my family. We went to Europe, visited London and Paris and Normandy with all four kids and just had a wonderful time over there. Very stressful to travel in new countries with all kinds of family members, of course, lots of jet lag and all that sort of thing. But had some really wonderful experiences with them there and had a good time. Managed to fit in one adventure in the time that we were going to spend in Yosemite and went down to Zion national park, it wasn't raining there and did the Zion Narrows. This is a really hard hike to draw a permit for to do the Narrows from the top down. But you know what I discovered was very easy was to get a permit to float it. And in the spring when the water's too high for them to allow hikers in there, they will issue you a permit to float it. And so that's what we did. We carried our pack rafts for A few hours until the water got deep enough to float it, inflated them and then floated out. What used to take eight hours of hiking, we floated in two hours. It was wonderful. It was a great way to see the narrows. We had to skip a couple of rapids. They were just way too much for us to do in our pack rafts, but easily portaged around and had quite an adventure doing that. So today we're going to be talking a little bit about family with the guest that we have on today. But I got a few things I need to get out of the way before we get into that interview. The first is our quote of the day. This one comes from P.T. barnum of Greatest Showman fame, although I don't think he ever said this in the movie. He said, money is a terrible master but an excellent servant. I think that's so true because it is something that you can do a lot of things with, but when it becomes the most important thing in your life, you're going to have some problems in your life. And I think today's interview is going to really speak to that as well. I also wanted to make sure that I thank you for what you do. Yesterday I was flat on my back. I was so sick I could not even sit up. And it only lasted six or eight hours. You know, just some viral syndrome. But man, I felt terrible. And I know there's people out there that feel that way for far longer than six or eight hours. And you're the people working on the front lines, helping them to get better. And that is a worthy work. And I appreciate you. Even if I didn't need a doctor yesterday, I was very grateful for ibuprofen and Tylenol and Gatorade. By the way, if you're looking for a little extra income that you can do on the side while you're commuting or while you're watching TV or something to wind down in the evenings. Check out our paid surveys@whitecoatinvestor.com paidsurveys people actually pay you hundreds of dollars. Some people even make thousands of dollars a month taking surveys, particularly if you are in a medical specialty that prescribes expensive medications. You know, I'm talking rheumatology, I'm talking oncology, neurology, those sorts of specialties. You'd be surprised how much money you can make doing these paid surveys. They really do want your opinion on stuff. All right, enough about this. Let's talk about your families. Let's talk about your marriages. Let's get Jim Shields on The line. You might know him from Real Estate World, but we're not going to be talking about real estate today. We're going to be talking about how to strengthen your family. So let's get them on the line. My guest today on the podcast is Jim Shiels. Welcome to the podcast, Jim.

Thanks for having me, Jim. Good to be here.

Now, by way of disclosure, Jim and I have a bit of a business relationship. His company, Southern Impression Homes, helps white coat investors find turnkey properties that they want to invest in. But that's not actually what we're going to be talking about today. Today we brought Jim on because he's an author, an author of a very important book called the Family Board Meeting. And we're going to get a little bit into that and why he decided to write that book and what its message for you is. In the meantime, Jim, tell us where we're recording this from. Where are you at?

I am in Costa Rica right now, Jim, one of our favorite spots to try to get away to and work and play from.

Now you say we. Who's we?

My whole family. So me, my wife and we got five kids. So it's quite the gang.

Okay. Oldest is how old and youngest is how young.

We go from 20 to one. So we've got quite a range.

And you've got the 20 year old down there too.

Yeah, he actually just left to go back because he has a business but. But he was down here. They love it here. This has been one of our favorite adventure spots. It's a big core value for our family. Adventure we're more about that's just so important to us. And this is one of our favorite spots to do it.

Very cool. Well, the book we're talking about today just came out with a third edition and I understand it's been rated pretty highly by the Wall Street Journal.

Yeah, this is kind of exciting. You know, my first podcast since I got the news, because I got the news about an hour ago that we hit number one on Wall Street Journal, which is our publisher called and said this is incredible because it's normally fiction books and we were the first non fiction kind of self help book to hit and not only hit the list but hit number one. So we're really excited. I think it just shows people are really yearning for this family message and for some strategy and structure to help that important part of their life.

Yeah. Now the copy I have is still the second edition. I haven't gotten my hands on the third edition yet, but I think we can probably Work from that to talk a little bit about the message about the family board meeting. But before we talk about what the family board meeting is, let's talk about your motivation to write this. I mean, this came out of you kind of interacting with a bunch of other entrepreneurs and seeing a problem. Tell us about that problem.

Yeah, it was many years ago. I went to support a friend who was going through detox through, through. Through an addiction treatment center. And on the final day, most people brought in family. I wanted to support this friend. And it was very interesting, Jim. I was in a room of a lot of parents. They all shared something in common. Two things in common. One, they all had a child who's an addict, which is a very, very difficult thing to go through. The second thing is they were all successful in their career. They either owned their own practice or their own business. And it hit me like a cold baseball bat to the knees and just to watch it. And there was this concern that I saw that these people in best intentions had built these bigger businesses or practices, but they had sacrificed so much quality time at home. The relationships had suffered and then sobriety had suffered as a result. And it really made me think, well before I even had a family gym of how could I do things differently? And that's what I wanted to do, was do things differently. So I wasn't in that situation. Or at least hopefully I would do everything to avoid that situation later in life.

Let me read a little bit from the book, from this section you said that day I watched successful grown men and women sobbing at the clear knowledge they hadn't been there for their children when it was most important. It was enough to change me forever. That day I learned there was something more important than money, more important than fancy private schools, and more important than empty gifts. That something is called quality time. I sat in that room listening to the devastating stories and the heart wrenching regret of each parent as 100 different threads wound themselves together in my mind. The disconnected entrepreneurs and corporate warriors I'd met over the years. The disconnected parents in the support group, the memory of my friends, disconnected upbringing. It was like a slap in the face, an abrupt shock that left me wondering, what happened to these families? Tell us what you mean by quality time. I mean, this is something that's been thrown around a lot, but you know, I don't know that anybody really ever puts a definition on it. What is quality time?

So let's start, Jim, by saying what quality time is not. Quality time is not putting your kid in the backseat, taking Two phone calls and having the radio on and calling that quality time. You know, quality time is not being in a huge group and unavailable. The people that you love the most, where you're giving them maybe 10% of the attention, maybe less. That's what quality time is not. What quality time is, is intentional, planned and strategic time together with certain principles added. It is the difference of success or failure. And that was something that I really got honed in on, what creates quality time? And it's only a few components, which I'm sure we'll go over today. Very cool.

All right, so let's talk about an important question, and you call it in the book, the Most Important Question in the World. Can you tell us what the most important question is?

Well, the most important question is have you spent time, one on one, with your child without electronic distractions for a day or a half a day? If so, when? If not, why not? That's the underlying question that I ask so many people.

It really boils down to what's more important, your work or your money or your children.

Yeah. And a lot of this, Jim, there are people so well intentioned. I mean, you know, we both have families. There is a pride, there is a deep responsibility to provide for our families. And for my doctor friends, couple that with the Hippocratic oath, you know, that that's a very sacred oath to a lot of my doctor friends. So there is some pull, there is some confusion. But what I found is the people that are able to put their family in priority position and still not give up those other responsibilities seem to be happier and more well adjusted than people that do not. When you put yourself in the position where your family just is constantly getting what's left over, and we know from all the busyness, if we just give them what's left over, it can be very small. That's where I start to see problems really arise, at least with the thousands of families I've worked with over the last 12 years.

Now, I think this concept, this idea of a board meeting might not be intuitive to doctors as much as it is to a corporate warrior. Tell us what a board meeting is and then let's transition that into what the family board meeting is.

Yeah, well, a board meeting for me, Jim, when I first made up this term, it was a play on words because, as you know, my pastime is surfing, so I love surfing. So you hear about surfers talking about having a board meeting. So they're not really in the boardroom, they're out on their surfboards. And so that's what we originally called it because we had so much, you know, beach time. So it was kind of a play on words, you know, and so it might, might sound a little more serious than it is, but for our doctor friends out there that might not be so into this more business realm, they're more into the professional realm. A board meeting. For everything that I've seen in statistics, successful companies is a time when you get together every 90 days to reunite the team and look forward to the next 90 days. That's what a real successful board meeting is for entrepreneurial companies that I've either owned or worked within. And I decided a long time ago I wanted to do that same with my children. You know, they are my most important investors, clients, key team members, and I wanted to make sure I gave them that time. So every 90 days, I get together one on one with each one of my children, and I reunite my relationship with them. We have fun, and we look ahead to the next 90 days. And I've been doing this now for 12 years, along with thousands of other families. We estimate this simple rhythm is probably being practiced by over 300,000 families.

Now let's get into the nuts and bolts. How do you plan and carry out a board meeting?

Absolutely. So first thing, Jim, as we've talked about before, in success, that which we schedule gets done. I mean, I know my doctor friends would never not schedule appointments with their patients. That just wouldn't make sense. So that which we put on our calendar gets done. So every quarter, I schedule a day, half a day to a day with each one of my children. And then I follow three guiding principles. The one to one principle, the intermittent tech fasting principle, and then the fun activity and focus reflection principle. We can go through each one. And when you combine these three, it is an absolute unfair advantage for having a deeper, more meaningful relationship with your children.

Okay, let's go through the principles. Let's start with the first one.

Yeah. So this one. And I know I'm not supposed to say this, Jim, but I'm going to say it. If people stop listening after this one, I'm going to tell you, just listen to this one because it has made the most difference and it is so overlooked and so underrated, it still baffles me. And this is the one to one principle. What I've learned with successful relationships between spouses, between them and their children, is separate the parts to strengthen the whole. You have to get one on one with each member of your family to strengthen that individual relationship. One on one time takes away distraction and it puts the magnifying glass on that individual relationship in a positive way. You know, big family gatherings are great. I come from an Irish Catholic family, which means I have like 4,000 cousins. Right. And that's great. But the real deeper conversations with my children, especially my teens, happens on one on one side because there's a lot of things we might not want to talk or open up with without that comfort of one on one. And if you are the busy professional, you're a busy doctor or a busy business owner and you're away from home more, well, it's really important that you have this one on one time because your child might naturally tend to lean towards your spouse who might be homework. So one on one time is the starting point. And we found even this scheduled one on one time takes the relationship to a deeper level.

Now, what if your spouse wants to participate? They don't want this to be one on one. They want it to be two on one. How do you, how do you break the news that this has to be one on one?

You know, our book is a great starting point because it really does break it down in a non aggressive way of why this is so important. Again, you're not taking away from the family dynamic by not all being together all the time. You're adding to it. You know, in our days, if you remember the Brady Bunch, Jim, none of us want the next Jan Brady. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. This fights against that. And really you want to show your spouse this is not going to take away from the relationship. It's going to add to it. What I found a lot of the times, especially if there's a spouse at home more, they're going to support this because they want to see you, the busy professional that's outside the house, get this time because, man, it is so important.

What about when the kid pushes back? Can I bring my friend? You know, they're always more willing to do stuff if there's a friend with them. How do you respond to that?

Well, there's a couple ways first, and this is Principle 3, and we'll jump ahead to it real quick and then come back to it later. I let them plan the day. Now, if it's something that I'm planning, Jim, like I like surfing and one of my sons loves the ocean, but not into surfing. If I go out to a surf spot with him for the day, he's not going to be as excited as if he got to plan the day. So one of the things I let Them do is plan the day. And then I just basically explained to them, hey, I'd like to bring my best friend too, and I'll name one of my close friends. This is about you and me today. We'll have other times where we're getting together with John or Sally or whoever, but today is about me and you. And that is really important that we get time, just the two of us. I don't say it aggressively. I don't say it with authoritative action. I just kind of hand open, say that to them. And I've yet to see too heavy a pushback. Maybe in the beginning if you haven't been spending time, but there are some things you can do to keep to open that up. But get them on that first one and we'll go over some things to make sure you don't betray that trust to help do that. And I think you're going to see results that most people are so scared to even ask this, they find out it was just a phantom. They were pretty scared about things they didn't.

Yeah. All right, let's talk about the second principle.

This one's really important.

This is the one about your cell phone, right?

Yes. Intermittent tech fasting. You know, we have lots of health professionals on here, and I am no health expert, but I've practiced different forms of intermittent fasting, you know where. From what I've read, it helps revitalize the organs. Weight maintenance, weight control. And you know, you're not giving up eating, Jim. You're just deciding to eat between this time and this time. It's a disciplined action of when you're choosing to eat. This is the same thing I encourage with quality time with your family, especially starting with this family board meeting that you do with each one of your children every quarter. Or as in our third edition, when we start to talk about the importance of having a weekly date night with your spouse. My phone is not invited. So when I go on to these days with my children, Jim, my phone is not invited. You start to realize when you read the studies how much interruption occurs. And you never get below the surface or give full focus to people in front of us. If we get that one text, if we get that Facebook thread that you don't even need to read, probably ever. If you know you're taking an email, that phone call, it pulls you out of the situation. I'll tell you a quick story. Maggie's now eight, about three years ago. She's five years old. We go out on a day, coming home every day. I Turn off my phone for one to two hours when I get off so they can't contact me. I need to be completely and totally unavailable sometimes for my family. We go out. She says, daddy, let's get on the trampoline. So it's her time. I get on the trampoline, Jim. I break my own rule. I left my phone in my pocket and I hear that dreaded now, you know that noise. Everyone on here knows that noise. We don't even have to look at the phone yet. But our mind's gone into seven different things of what it could b. I pull it out and I was doing a real estate closing on a deal that I was closing and something fell through. A simple part of the title and it was supposed to close. It didn't happen. Oh man. So here I am, frustrated, standing on the trampoline, talking in my head and there's nothing I could do. It's 5:30, it's gonna have to wait till tomorrow. And I have a moment of clarity and I stop and I look and there's my five year old daughter standing in front of me. She got this really sad look on her face and she goes, oh, daddy, why are you so mad at me? And I'm like, oh, I mean just, you know, turn the knife. It just was so, so shocking to hear that I had been so out of it. You know, we think we can handle two things at once. We don't realize what it's doing to the people in front of us. And that's why I want times of complete and total unavailability. You cannot reach me when I'm on one of these board meetings with my children. And I follow suit, I set the example and they have to turn off their phone because we all know if all of a sudden we're about to get into deep conversation, we float into a social media thread or get a text or a phone call, the moment stops. So what I've found for the most successful family connection points is we got to turn off technology. I'm not telling them they have to move to a survival ranch in Montana and never have, you know, although that sounds tempting to me sometimes, but what I'm saying is have times of unavailability, you know, interesting fact as well. 60 years ago, Jim, the average family dinner was about 90 minutes. Which you and I, look, we're like, gosh, 90 minutes, that's a long time. But today the average family meal for dinner is 12 minutes. 12 minutes. So I have the belief and expert I've talked To that people are rushing off to something and normally it's to electronic device. So I'm saying, look, you're going to go on a date with your spouse, turn off your phone for the night, have one emergency phone with the babysitter, you're going to go on one of these board meetings with your children, have your phone off for those four to five hours. Your, your, your business or practice should not explode. You know, if you're coming home every day, take an hour, one hour where everyone's phones are off, because then you're not rushing away. Then there's not distraction, then there's deeper conversation. Intermittent tech fasting is one of the most important principles that I found to settle family strife and even distance and bring people closer together.

Very cool. All right, well, you alluded to this earlier, but let's talk about the third principle.

Yeah, so people say, as you said, Jim, well, what if they don't want to do it? What if they, you know, they're not wanting to spend the time? Well, I got to tell you, what I found is for me, I'll guilt myself when I'd want to spend time with my older boys or any of my children in best intention. Sometimes I would try to pick the day and they might want to do something totally different if I let them build out the day on their home. So that which we help create, we take ownership in. So a fun activity of their choice. Every quarter, they plan the day and I go all in. I've had more princess parties than I probably want to admit to you, Jim, but that's what my daughter wanted to do, and I went all in. And that's their currency of fun, going in on what they want to do. You know, my son, for example, he loved fishing. Now, I like fishing, Jim, but if I have a chance to go surfing or fishing, I will choose surfing to 10 out of 10 times. But my son loves to fish. So, you know, starting at age seven, when we started to take these board meetings and he started doing fishing, we did that a lot. I went all in. Well, today he owns his own charter fishing business, so you never know where these things are going to turn out. But thankfully I didn't say no, let's go surfing. Oh, let's go to this. Because that's what seems to happen. We let them build the day and go all in. And then at the end of the day, you have the chance to have some open communication, see what occurs. And you can read about this in the book when you're, you know, four to five hours in, you've had no distractions, you're having a good time, you've probably shared a meal. There's something that occurs that called decompression. You know, it's almost like the guards have come down. This is when real communication can happen. And what I found for thousands of people I've spoke to and even myself of my own recollections, this is the time where if I make a sincere compliment or a genuine apology, I go deeper with my children. Look, we all get short, we all get impatient. We all have times where we make a promise and it gets run over by career goals, deadlines, this and that. We have times where our children have worked really hard on something and we haven't taken the time to actually give them some credit where credit's due or real compliments. And so I found that if I will go all in, stay open to conversation, just ask the question, what did you enjoy today? And give me have myself have the courage to make an apology or sincere compliment, which honestly, I didn't really get as a child, so weren't easy for me. This is where the relationship can get strong.

Okay, so this activity that they plan and you've turned your phones off for and it's one on one. I mean, how does this work? Give us a couple of examples of family board meetings you've done.

Okay, well, let me give you one in the book that has gotten even more famous now because we did a catch up. Where are they now? With my kids. So my son Leland, he's six years old, you've been, I think, to St. Augustine. We have a beautiful lighthouse there. Just the view is just sprawling. His big brother, a quarter before had gone to the lighthouse. He said, dad, I want to go to the lighthouse. I want to go to the lighthouse for my next 40. I said, okay, no problem. Now the catch here is Jim Leland was terrified of heights. He could not stand heights. And I'm going, okay, how is this going to work? He's scared of heights. I know. Big brother just went. So we get to the base of the lighthouse, he starts freaking out. And I'm like, look, buddy, we don't need to do this. This is your day. We'll go all in. Do what you want to do. I said, I'll tell you what, what if we just climb the first landing? You know, when you go up, there's landings and there's benches. We climb the first 20 steps and sit there. If you want to come back down, we'll come back down. So Little hemming and hauling. We get out, we do that, we get up the first land. Finally, we sit there for a while. I don't know about this. Well, hey, why don't we just try the next lane, go up again, Boom. Okay. Then we get up another lane and another landing. And now he's like, well, I'm not sure. And I'm like, well, look buddy, we're closer to the top than we are at the bottom. Maybe try one more landing. Well, we do this the whole way up, Jim. He gets to the top, he is proud as plunge. The view. View is just such a reward. You know, we rush down, we climb it two more times and you know, he is just ecstatic with himself. We leave, we go have a meal at his favorite cafe that he likes to eat at. And then we stop near our home before going home, just climb on some jetty rocks. And I said, what was your favorite part of the day today, buddy? And he's like, oh, climbing the lighthouse. I can't believe that I was able to do that. I said, yeah, I was really proud of you. And he stopped and he said something to me, which at first, you know, with the male bravado, you should be proud of. And then I was like, wow, I'm really not doing a good job displaying who I really am. He said, dad, have you ever been afraid of anything? And I thought, what? What? Because coming from a six year old and grown man who still has plenty of fears and setbacks and hesitancies, he's thinking that he's trying to live up to someone who was never afraid. And that just was not true. So I had to say, wow, buddy, let me list as far as I can remember back around your age, all the things I was afraid of. And it was just such a connection point to that day. First of all, he overcame it and I was able to see something that I was seriously doing wrong. Where yeah, I was in good intention, make him strong, make him self reliant. But if I'm setting up this Superman image that I have no vulnerabilities, first of all, it's a lie. And secondly, how can he ever feel as a six year old that he can relate to? And that was a really important thing. Fast forward to today, Jim. This little boy who was now afraid of heights. And I didn't even realize this till our editor said, do you realize that this famous story of him being afraid of heights, he now owns a gutter cleaning business where he's up on roofs all day. So that's one of my favorite stories. Stories. Another story. I know there was a friend of mine who owns a large practice, had a messy divorce. His daughters were teens, twins. He started to practice these board meetings, and he said on the second board meeting, both of his twin daughters, who. He did them separately, but they were always together. But he got together with them separately and had a day with each one of them. He said they said the exact same thing. And he knows that they didn't script it to each other. They basically said, dad, we didn't care about the big practice. We didn't care about any of the big stuff. We just wanted time with you. And he said it was an absolute. Aha. It was a comfort, it was a rebuilding of his confidence, and it changed the way that he went into the next phase of his career, the rest of the relationship he had with them into adulthood. So those are just two stories that stick out. But we're lucky to have thousands and thousands of people using this system, though. But those are just two that are good to share.

Let's talk about what you're supposed to do at the end of this time together, this sort of reflection time. Tell us about that and how hard it is, how involved it is, how easy it is, et cetera.

You remember those old commercials, Jim, with the crash dummies for cars? And you can learn a lot from a dummy. So I always joke, I say, you can learn a lot from a dummy, meaning me. What you don't want to do when you first get on these. These board meetings is you don't want to. You don't want to, like, try to fit in 50 lectures. You know, you don't want to get on your soapbox and start disciplining of the ways they can improve their life, you know, the things that they're not doing right. You know, this is. This is a betrayal of trust, and it will kill the magic of the board meeting. And as you said, that's what's going to prevent your kids from wanting to go on another one, you know, keep the next 50 lectures for another time. This day is not about that. This day is about just a relationship, not about the rules, not about all those other things. They can wait. So during these reflection times, it's a time to be vulnerable. It's a time to lower your guard and admit things. Like I've said, you know, I have two. Two young sons going into their own businesses. I share my struggles on our recent board meetings all the time because I know they're going to be able to Relate to that. And I don't leave it like, hey, it was terrible, it was awful. I say, it was really hard. Here's what I tried to do to work through it. And it's after they ask me questions, I always try to let them have the playing field and not make them talk too long. A focused reflection can honestly be four seconds. They say, what did you like about today? Just getting the chance to spend time with you because I don't do it enough and I'd like to do it more. Boom. A sentence like that can really implant into a child and make them wanting to come back for more, especially if you're doing it enthusiastically and authentically. Obviously you don't want to try tactical, but that's all that the focus reflection is about. Jim is just, again, sincere apologies. Maybe you're holding back a compliment. You know, maybe there's a story at their age of yourself that doesn't make you look like a superhero. But it's certainly not about lecture.

Well, let's talk about the third edition. I haven't read the third edition. What's in the third edition that I don't have in my book?

So in the third edition, there's just some more stories. We went deeper into a few of the principles, the one to one principle, the intermittent tech fasting and this fun activity with focused reflection, which, by the way, that's the shortest definition of experiential education. But what we added was this rhythm that my wife, Jamie and I have been teaching at different business groups. And that is the importance of date night. You know, we were working with some. Some pretty influential groups out there. And I would say, when was the last time you went on a date with your spouse? And they're like, oh, seven months ago, eight months ago. Yeah, we try. And you know, one thing that my wife and I got really good at out of necessity was the weekly date night. And there's a little system to how we do it to make sure that we don't miss it and we make the most of it. And that's what we go into in the book is adding the principles of the one to one, the intermittent tech fasting, and then also adding some guardrails of what date night looks like. And this is something really important. If you are not having a weekly date with your spouse, I believe you are setting yourself up for a dangerous situation. And nobody wants to be in that situation. And if you do do it, it is such a reset. It is something to look forward to. It is continually built. The love and friendship that I have with my wife today. And I'm happy to share a few of those main points that people can cheat off of.

Sure. Let's hear some of those main points.

Okay. Well, hey, our doctor friends, Jim, they're really busy, right? A week goes by in blink of an eye. So if we're every week saying, okay, let's schedule a date, well, how about Thursday? Well, no, Thursday. Maybe Friday. Tuesday. Yes, Tuesday. Oh, we can't get the center on Tuesday. Right. It moves too fast. So going back to, you know, Burt Ward, days of Batman, same Bat time, same bat channel. See, I'm an ADD entrepreneur, Jim. You know me pretty well. I need structure, right? I need some structure, some guardrails around me. And I used to miss date night and it would break my wife's heart. And I'm really ashamed to say that, but once we put it on the same day every Wednesday, 5:30-8:30, every Wednesday, 5:30- 8:30. What does that do when you put it on the same day and same time? Well, first off, for us, we can get a sitter. We have a standing babysitter every Wednesday night. We don't take podcasts on Wednesday nights. I don't do client dinners. I don't on Wednesday night. I can work around it. I know if I'm traveling, you know, to. To an event, I usually can leave Thursday morning. So it's right after that. So that's how we picked our date. So if you find a day that's going to work, and we found on the weekends, it might be harder to get into our restaurants. Plus, we like hump day, but we know when it is and what to expect. And I find that most people, as I said before, with why do our board meeting strategy with children fail? Because most people don't schedule it. If they will just schedule the date night for that same night, it doesn't take away excitement, it doesn't take away any enthusiasm. And actually it gives you something to depend on. And it's really nice. Now, once you get on the date, Jim. I ruined plenty of dates in the beginning, sad to say, because I had my phone, that text, that phone call. I mean, I'm embarrassed to think back of that guy who was at the table with my beautiful wife. So my phone's uninvited. But when we go on a date, I don't know about you, Jim. And I really, like, my wife is my best friend. We have a great relationship, really attracted to her. But even with that, we can get stuck in the Fast of life with the surface questions. How was the kids day at school? What's the weather supposed to be like tomorrow? What errands are we running on Saturday? You know, real romance builders, right? And we want to avoid those. So what Jamie and I started to do is we started to bring, because we read something of better questions, better relationship. And so we started to mount up and just find questions from the Internet in different spots of really deep, powerful questions to help us get to know each other, to keep dating each other. And actually, as we built them, we started to put them as a joke into a deck of cards. You know, 52 questions and a little one you could fit in your pocket. And we'd bring these on our date. And every date we ask one or two of these questions. Not 17 for our overachievers. This isn't a contest, but one or two. And one or two questions, Jim, instead of like, you know, how's the weather today? It's like, hey, tell me about the most influential teacher you had, whether from kindergarten or college, and why. I mean, that one question. What I learned about my wife and what I learned, she learned about the person who influenced my life to a huge degree. A teacher was huge. What were our best three vacations and which one would we take first again if we could name a time that we were going through a tough time and you feel like I didn't show up for you and how I could have done that better? Now that's a tough one. The dupes got to go down, right? Lower the guard. But the beauty here is, Jim, if you set it up at same bat time, same bat channel for us, every Wednesday, 5:38, 30. Every Wednesday, 5:38, 30. And every week I'm asking one or two powerful under the surface questions to my wife. Think where you'll be in a year compared to the last year. Now, a lot of the groups that we've worked with, if they've only gone on four dates and asked none of those questions, you feel more aligned, you feel closer to each other, you feel more respected, you feel more heard. All the things we all want. And so that is a big part of the addition. Number three. Because the relationship between us and our children is one of the most important things to me in my life. Jim. I love real estate, but it is very secondary to the relationship I have with my family. And that can't just be with our children. I believe it has to be with our spouse. And that's why we added that part to the.

You know, it's Very true. And I've been saying this for many years, that date night is your best asset protection move.

There you go.

Because doctors are all worried. They're worried about losing their money to their patients. And the truth is, almost no doctors ever lose any of their personal money to a patient. Almost always. Even when they're sued successfully or have to settle something, they're playing with the house money, they're playing with the insurance company money. Who do they really lose their money to? Spouses. When they get divorced, that's where they lose their money. So even if you look at it just from a financial perspective, date night is a great move.

It's a great move. Yep. And it's got equity in many, many different areas, you know. And so what I found is too, as we went on to more dates and asked more of these questions, the level of trust we've had has grown. And for financial success, Jim, my wife and I are very aligned financially, in our mindsets, in our goals. We both know we where our assets are, how they're working. And I'd like to say that that wasn't always the case, but we built a trust and a camaraderie through these dates that really bind to that. And I can tell you our wealth. Not only have we been far from the side of divorce, but we've grown our wealth more sustainably and more enjoyable. And that makes all the sense in the world to me and hopefully to a lot of people.

Yeah, absolutely. So in preparation for this, I read through some of the reviews of your book on Amazon. I don't know if you've ever read these, but it's always fun and you have lots of very nice reviews. I mean, 91% of your reviews are four or five stars. Lots of people say very nice things about you. So I found the worst review on here. This is from a lady by the name of Laura W. Who said, one star. Let me save you the money. Spend time with your kids one on one doing something they like to do. Tremendous waste of time with very little content. In fact, I can save you 10 bucks by giving you the entire message reiterated 50 times in this pathetic book. Spend some one on one time with your kids. Here's the big secret, the twist. Doing something they want to do. Seriously. That's it. The title and subtitle of the book were more interesting than any of the content. Frankly, I'm embarrassed that I bought this book and would give it zero stars if that were an option. Now here's my question for you, Jim. If you had a chance to sit down in a room across from Laura W. What would you talk about?

You know, I would try to very nicely ask, what have you done with your children to keep a strong relationship? And sometimes when people are that charged, it doesn't feel like they're mad at me, Jim. They're mad at someone else. And so I can kind of laugh at those a little bit. But I would say, wow, you really summarize my book. Well, you know, and that's what we. Because here's what I would say is what I've learned, Jim. And I would tell Laura, you know, this is a short book. We made it like that on purpose. And the concepts are simple to understand and to put into action. We did that on purpose because I was saying today, especially, gosh, for different strategies for strengthening your family or relationships, it's almost like you have to buy a psychologist or family therapist to understand them. And not all of us have the time or the desire to do that. The world is choking on content but starving for execution. My book is not content like overload. In fact, it's very content, generalized. And how do we put it into action? Because honestly, Jim, the book is a failure if you don't take action. That's the biggest compliment I can get. It's too simple. And what I found is, sadly, I've had some friends, friends who are good friends now say, I thought it was too simple. I ignored you. Three years later, I finally started. Now I get it. So I'd say with Laura, like, also, have you practiced this? Have you tried it? What were you doing before? Because I've started to back in the day, Jim. I cross my arms. Who's this Laura? Where does she live? Do I have her Facebook? You know, it's like you take it very personally, but now I'm starting to see, like it's very vulnerable when you start to talk with people about their children. This is a very personal relationship. We put a lot of pride in it. We have a lot of hurt, we have a lot of resentment towards ourselves. And so I see when people write comments like that, luckily I don't get many. They're probably not mad at me. They're mad at something else normally themselves.

Yeah, well, awesome. Jim, it's been great spending time with you talking about the family board meeting. You've got the year now probably of 35 or 40,000, mostly doctors, but high income professionals for the most part. What have we not talked about today that you think they ought to know?

Jim? I have a lot of doctor friends. As you know, they are some of the most hardworking, honorable people I know. They're also very hard on themselves because they had to be of that perfection to learn their skill set, which thank God, they do. I mean, you know, the stories of what I talk about at White Coat events, like anything from kidney donations to what. What doctors have done, are huge. Just know even with all your skills, there is no perfect family, you know, and don't put that pressure under you, your spouse, or your children. Family life, if I've learned anything, is not about perfection. It's about bridging our imperfection and making the most of the time we have together, because that is a huge unknown. And I learned that more and more each day that I live. So I just tell all of my friends, but my doctor friends out there, you guys are working hard. You're doing great work. Don't put the pressure of perfection on you for the perfect family life. I don't know whoever created that silly saying, the perfect family, I haven't met them in thousands and thousands of families. And that's not what it's about. So when you take that pressure off, you might actually get to enjoy each other a little.

Very cool. Thanks for sharing. So if you're interested in the family board meeting, you can get it on Amazon. Make sure you're buying the third edition now. It's brand new out, but if you look for the ones with the most reviews, that'll be the first or second edition. So look for the third edition to make sure you get all that good stuff about date night in there. If you're interested in connecting with Jim professionally, the best link to use is whitecoatinvestor.com Sihomes and that'll take you to his professional pursuit, which is obviously not his greatest priority. But if you're interested in getting into turnkey rental properties, he can assist you with that as well.

Just.

Jim, thank you for your time. Thank you for coming on the White Coat Investor podcast and sharing your thoughts on how to strengthen our families and our marriages.

Thank you, Jim. I appreciate you having me.

All right. I hope you enjoyed that interview. I thought it was great. It was really good for me. I mean, I'd read the book a while back, but because I hate scheduling stuff. And ask White Coat Investor staff members how much I hate scheduling stuff. I have not actually implemented this despite needing to after reading the book. And that is the hard part, isn't it, is implementing, following through. So I'm going to make a commitment to all of you 35,000 of you or whatever. They're going to listen to this podcast and I'm going to do a far better job implementing a weekly date night and a quarterly family board meeting with my kids and do a better job of strengthening what really does matter the most to me. And I hope you will join me in doing the same. And shoot. Send me an email, let me know how it goes. Getting quality disability and life insurance should be the first financial chore for a doctor to complete. Most docs don't have the ideal policy for their gender, specialty, state or health status, and one in seven doctors get disabled at some point during their career. Because these policies can only be purchased through brokers, we put together a list of vetted agents who are experienced with working with the specific needs of medical professionals and who have your best interest at heart. If you have questions about insurance and what kind of policies would be the best fit for you, check out our insurance recommended list@whitecoatinvestor.com insurance and feel the peace of mind that comes with knowing you have the optimal policy in place. You can do this and the White Coat Investor can help. Don't forget about those paid surveys as well. Whitecodeinvestor.com paid surveys and thank you for those of us those of you who leave us five star reviews. Not the one star review I mentioned, Jim's, but the five star reviews about the podcast. They actually help us to spread the word about this podcast. Our most recent one comes from an unidentifiable amount of letters and numbers. They say I wish I knew about you years ago. Saddened about the time and money I wasted. Optimistic about the knowledge I'm getting from the White Coat Investor. Five stars. Thank you so much for that review. Keep your head up, shoulders back. You've got this and we can help. We'll see you next time on the White Coat Investor podcast. The hosts of the White Coat Investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.