WCI #362: Recasting a Mortgage and Beating a Non Compete

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This is White Coat Investor podcast number 362. Recasting a mortgage and beating a non compete. No more wading through dozens of books at the library, scrolling through hundreds of blog posts on dozens of blogs, or checking in daily with online forums trying to gain a financial education the way hobbyists do for a fraction of the price of hiring a professional financial planner. The Fire your financial advisor online course will take you from feeling anxious and having no plan to having a written financial plan. You can follow the rest of your investing career as a professional and a retiree. This course is the material that should have been taught to you in college, medical school or residency, but never was. Fire your financial advisor also has a version eligible for CME credit. Get your financial life in order today. Go to whitecoatinvestor.com courses to sign up. You can do this and the White Coat Investor can help. All right, it's that time of year again. We're doing our financial educator award. This goes to somebody who is a practicing doc but is spending some time on the side educating their colleagues, trainees and students about financial literacy. So we want to encourage you to nominate them for the award. You can do that@whitecoatinvestor.com educator and we will bribe you to do it. Not only does the person who wins the award get a cash prize, but the best nomination for that person also gets a WCI online course of their choice. So please give us those people who are doing a great job out there educating. They can only win once. If you've won in past years, you can't win again. But we want financial education to be accessible to everybody. I can't go out and talk at every medical school and residency in the country, so other people have got to do it or it just won't happen. So we want to reward that and we want to incentivize that that's what this award is for. So we also provide slides for those who are not aware, slides for presentation to medical students, slides for a presentation to residents, slides for a presentation to attendees. You can find those@whitecoatinvestor.com educator as well. So you can do your nomination. You can get the slides. All that happens on the same page. All right, let's get into your questions. First one's all about a timeshare.

Hi Dr. Dali, this is Roy. I'm a hospitalist in California. I'm calling about timeshares. We have a timeshare that was gifted to us, so we paid no money for it up front. However, as I'm sure you can guess, the annual fees are burdensome and at this point I would love to just get rid of it. I would be happy to sell it or even give it away to get it off our plate. My questions are first, how do you do that? Can you recommend any sites, businesses, or avenues for getting rid of the thing, even if I'm willing to give it away? Also, if I give it away or sell it for very little, is there any way to take any kind of cap loss on the transaction? Thank you so much.

All right. Timeshares. Good times, right? Never buy a timeshare. New if you must buy a timeshare, buy them used. You can often buy them for 10 cents on the dollar, 25 cents on the dollar. People are giving them away for free. Why in the world would you pay retail for a timeshare? There's no reason to. So if you're in some high pressure sales presentation as part of your vacation somewhere and being sold a timeshare, don't buy one. No reason to ever buy these things. New. Second, people can't gift you things against your will. You can decline the gift even if it's left to you as an inheritance. You can just disclaim it so you don't have to take something that somebody wants to give to you or has left to you in their will or their trust or whatever. Right now, if you're the executor, this becomes your problem if nobody wants this stupid thing. But if you're not the executor, the easiest thing to do if it's something you don't want, is just disclaim it. One of the best resources out there for timeshares is a forum. Actually, it's the timeshare users group. And there's all kinds of people in there, buying, selling, renting, timeshares, exchanging timeshares. These are timeshare experts. I think that's a great place to go to get advice, talk about your specific timeshare, maybe even a place to sell your timeshare. So that's, that's the resource I'd recommend you go take a look at. But mainly, man, just keep this in mind. Don't get into these things if you're not actually wanting to have it. And if you actually want to have it, buy it used. I've Met a few people. Dr. Corey Fassa loves his timeshares, but most people don't. So make sure you know what you're getting into, don't buy it new and have a plan for getting rid of it when you're done with it. Now, as far as it being a capital loss that you can use, when something's gifted to you, you inherit their basis. If you inherit it though, they die and you get it. Then you get to step up in basis so it's worth whatever it was when they died. And if it's worth nothing now, it was worth nothing when they died. So there's no loss there. But at any rate, you can only take capital losses for investments. And if no one else has ever renting this thing except you, it's a little hard to argue it's an investment. It's more of a consumption item. And you can't really take capital losses on your consumption items. Otherwise we'd all be taking capital losses every time we sold our car. And you just can't do that. Okay, I hope that's helpful. Our quote of the day today comes from Albert Einstein. He said, compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it. He who doesn't, pays it. It's like what I tell my kids all the time. I tell them, do you want to earn interest or do you want to pay interest? And they get it right every time. I'm not sure why it's so hard once we become adults. All right, let's talk about buying versus renting in residency. Wow. Boy. The white coat investor subreddit, which skews young. The audience there skews young. Lots of medical students and residents. Young attendings there are has been overrun this month ever since match day of people asking, hey, should I buy a home as a new intern? It's unbelievable. I mean, there must be a dozen or more threads of people that wonder if they're an exception to this general rule that buying is probably not the right move in residency. But I suspect Joe asking this question has a similar question.

Hey, Dr. Dali, this is Joe. I'm a fourth year med student in the Midwest getting ready to match here in a few weeks. My wife and I are trying to decide if we're going to rent versus buy. And we have some student loans left over that we didn't spend. And we were originally planning on just paying the government back with that extra money. However, I read in an article recently that it could be wise if you're going for PSLF to keep that money for other expenses. So my first question is, do you know if it's allowed, if it's legal, to keep that extra leftover student loan money for some, say a down payment on a house for residency? I can't find anywhere online to get this question answered, so I thought I'd ask you. And then also, do you think that's a wise financial decision, considering that the interest on these loans is anywhere from 6 to 7%? Thank you.

All right, well, there's two issues we need to discuss here. The first one is the incredible moral hazard introduced by our extremely generous federal student loan system. Currently, there are so many people out there right now that look at what has happened with student loans over the last five years, I. E. PSLF becoming more generous, I. E. SAVE as the most generous IDR program ever invented and are starting to go, man, maybe I shouldn't use my money to pay for medical school. I've got money. My parents have money, but I'm just gonna borrow the money anyway. Cause there's a very good chance it's gonna be forgiven. And student loans don't even grow during residency. Now, thanks to the SAVE program, any unpaid interest is just wa. And so there's a lot of students asking me these questions. I had a speaking gig not long ago, and there's a line of students afterward. And at least half of them basically asked this question, what should I do with this money? Should I borrow more than I need, et cetera? Wow. Those are the unforeseen consequences of our current federal student loan policy. A little bit of a moral hazard there. Remember, moral hazard's an economic term, right, where people make different decisions based on policy. It's not a moral or religious term. So don't send me hate mail saying, I'm saying medical students are immoral. If I was offered this property, I don't know, I'd probably do the same thing. I'd probably borrow just as much as I could for my education and see if I can't get it paid for by the taxpayer. Can't blame them for taking advantage of it. How is that any different from backdoor Roth IRAs or any other tax break out there? The 199A deduction, you name it. But let's talk about a few things. First of all, fraud. When you sign your promissory note for your student loans, you're saying, I'm going to use this money for school. That's the contract you're making. So if you're using it for something besides School, you're being fraudulent. If you're taking it out to invest, you're being fraudulent. If you're taking it out to use for a house down payment, you're being fraudulent. So I'm not going to recommend you do that. But you know, if you want to take it out and use it for school and use your money for something else, I guess you have every right to do that. The second issue is the rent versus buy question. And boy, I've talked about this for years. I've been trying to talk medical students who are graduating from medical school out of buying houses now for at least 15 years. I'm not very successful at it. It doesn't work very often. It doesn't matter what I say, they still buy houses. The good news is sometimes that works out fine. I figure on average about a third of the time it works out fine in a three year residency and about half the time in a five year residency. Lately it's worked out for everybody, right? If you were in a house for a year and sold it, you came out ahead because appreciation has just been so high. But on average, historically that doesn't happen. You need to be in the house long enough for it to appreciate enough to overcome your transaction costs. It just costs money to get into a house. It costs money to get out of a house. I think on average I estimated at about 15% of the value of the house round trip. That's just what it costs. So if the house doesn't appreciate about 15% or more while you're in it, you're not going to come out ahead financially. It's a lot more complex than my mortgage payment is less than my rent payment. That's just ignorant. That's just not understanding that there are a lot more expenses to being a homeowner than there are to being a renter. Right? Your rent is the maximum you're ever going to pay for your housing. Your mortgage payment is the minimum you're ever going to pay for your housing. There are just so many other expenses. There's taxes, there's insurance, there's maintenance. You got to go get a lawnmower, you got to buy a snow shovel. Things break. And of course, most people who buy a house, they don't want to have it exactly the same as when they bought it. So they do some sort of renovation and that costs money. Well, you don't do that when you're renting a house. Other people are like, I'm sick of being in an apartment. Guess what, you can rent a House. It's okay. You can rent a house. It's got a yard, it's got a driveway, it's got a garage. You can put your dog in the back. It doesn't have to be an apartment just because renting. And then there's a lot of people that say, oh, you're throwing money away when you're renting. Well, no, you're not. You're exchanging money for housing. Are you throwing money away when you buy groceries? You know that's just turning food into excrement, right? You're throwing it away. No, you're exchanging it for food, for necessary sustenance, just like you're putting a roof over your head when you pay rent. Besides, if paying rent is throwing away money, so is paying property taxes and realtor fees and insurance on your house and all those other expenses associated with homeownership. So if you're going to be in the house for five years for residency and you know you're not going to leave that city afterward, and you know you're going to be happy staying in the house for two or three more years afterward, then, yeah, it probably makes sense to buy. But for most residents, you're not going to be there longer than three to five years. And even if you are there longer than three to five years, you don't want to be in that house. And it's probably not going to make a great investment if you're buying it to live in it. So it doesn't really make sense to be buying it. The default option ought to be rent. Now, I know I'm not going to talk you out of renting it, and that's fine. Maybe you'll still make money. I think it's less than a 50% chance, but you could make money. People certainly have made money in the past buying during residency. But even if you don't make money, even if the worst happens, the house drops like crazy. Like the house I bought in 2006, you can't sell it at all. Four years later, you got to put a renter in there. You're renting it for cash flow. Negative situation. It's not the end of the world. You know why? Because you get saved. You get saved by this bump in your attending income. At the end of residency, your income goes up 3 to 5x. And you know what? There's enough income there that you can make up for this mistake. So it's not the end of the world. But I still wouldn't recommend it if I was starting residency today. I Wouldn't buy a house. I would go rent something. Okay, I hope that's helpful. Lots to talk about with that one. Here's another one about mortgages.

Hi, Dr. Dali. I have a question on paying off mortgage early. If the interest rate on the mortgage is 6% and you pay off the house early, you're basically getting 6% return on paying off the house early, which functions as a negative bond. Now, once the house is completely paid off, there is equity in the house that is not working. It's not invested. But that equity will be paying you dividend, which is rent that you would have paid elsewhere if you didn't own the house. So if I understand this correctly, paying off the mortgage early gets you two returns. The first return is the 6% by paying off the mortgage early. And the second return is that dividend you're receiving from the equity. Did I understand this correctly? Am I missing something or is it just one return, which is by paying off the 6% mortgage early? I appreciate your thought, Anders. Thank you.

All right, a few subjects in there to talk about. Mostly you have it right. Let's just clarify things a little bit. First of all, debt is like a negative bond. Paying off debt is like investing in a bond. You know, if the bond pays you 5%, that's like paying off a 5% debt. You know, that's the nice thing about paying down debt is it provides a guaranteed return. And if it's high interest rate debt, then you get a very high guaranteed return. If you got a credit card at 29%, you're literally getting a 29% investment return by paying that down. Whether you pay it off or not, that's what you're getting. So, yeah, I'm a big fan, especially for high interest debt, of paying it off. I think it's a great thing to do. I think it develops lots of good financial muscles. It will help you to be successful saving later. And I think it's generally a good thing. I also wouldn't want to be making mortgage payments on a house for 30 years. So if you don't put anything extra toward a 30 year mortgage, you're going to have it for 30 years. So if you want to be debt free before then, you're going to have to pay something extra. However, I think you're a little confused because you're conflating a house with the mortgage once you buy the house. These are totally separate things, right? Whether the house appreciates or not has nothing to do with the mortgage. The return you get by paying down that mortgage has nothing to do with the house. So you can pay down the mortgage. The 6%, you know, 6% mortgage, you get 6% guaranteed return, so that's cool. The saved rent dividends come from buying the house, though. They don't come from paying off the mortgage. You're saving the rent whether you have a huge mortgage, whether you have a tiny mortgage, whether you have no mortgage at all. So that has nothing to do with the mortgage. That's because you bought a house. Now, a house is mostly a consumption item. You pay it, it doesn't pay you, but it's probably the best consumption item out there. It generally appreciates over time at least the land on which it sits, and it pays you those dividends in quotes of saved rent. So I'm a big fan of owning houses. People think I say you shouldn't own a house. Well, I don't think you should buy it for your three year residency. But I'm a big fan of buying one. Own my house. I think it's generally been a good thing in my financial life. Certainly going forward, I expect it to be better and better and better and better. Now, the wonderful thing about paying off your mortgage is it improves your cash flow. If you're paying $3,000 a month for a mortgage, you pay off the mortgage, all of a sudden you got a $3,000 raise to do whatever you want. You can spend it, save it, give it whatever you want. So I think that's a really cool thing about paying off your mortgage or really any debt. But you need to separate these two things in your mind. And I think that's why you're confused, is because you're trying to put them into the same bucket. All right, thanks. By the way, for those of you out there, whatever you're doing, our survey tells us that you guys are driving to work, driving home, working out, walking the dog, or just doing chores around the house. So whatever you're doing right now, thanks for doing it. It's not what you do for a living. I'm sure nobody's listening to this while they're seeing patients or seeing clients or whatever, but thanks for what you're doing. It's not an easy job. That's why you get paid well. And here at the White Coat Investor, we want to help you convert that high income into a high level of wealth so that you can have the freedom that you deserve. We believe quite sincerely that a doctor who has their financial ducks in a row is a better doctor. We think they're a Better parent, a better partner, a better physician, because they're not worried about money. They're making their decisions without regard to the financial consequences of. Of them because finances have ceased to matter to them in their lives. And I think that's a beautiful thing. So thanks for what you're doing. It's important work, and it's often unthanked work. All right, let's talk about recasting a mortgage. First, the question.

Good morning. I was wondering if you could speak to recasting a mortgage. My brother's done this a few times, and it seems like legitimate option where you could put a lump sum and.

Then decrease your monthly payments on your.

Mortgage without having to go through the whole refinancing process. I've never heard of this prior to him. And I looked into it, and it seems legit, but it almost seems like I might be missing something. So I'd appreciate you speaking on this.

Okay. Recasting a mortgage is legit. It's not some sort of a scam or anything. It's an option that you can do. When would you recast a mortgage? Well, you would recast a mortgage when you had a lump sum of money you wanted to put toward the mortgage, but not necessarily shorten the term of the mortgage. You don't want to lengthen it either, but you don't want to shorten how long you're paying on it. You just want to have lower mortgage payments. So some people put additional money toward a mortgage because they want to be free of their mortgage sooner. That's not what you're doing when you're recasting a mortgage. You're putting money toward a mortgage because you want a lower payment. But the cool thing about recasting, and that's why people are more interested in it now that interest rates have gone up, because people have these 2 and a half or 3 or 4 or 5% mortgages. And new mortgages are 6 and 7 and 8% right now. And so they want to keep the old mortgage, they want to keep the interest rate, they want to keep the terms. And when you recast it, you can do that. All you're doing is putting money in, and then the lender is making a new amortization table. So your payments go down because you don't have as much of a principal balance. That's what recasting is. Now your alternatives are to refinance it. Right now, there's fees for recasting. They're probably bigger for refinancing, but you're going to Pay fees either way. But when you refinance, you generally start over with the mortgage. You go back out to 30 years. So you do get a lower payment, but you've lengthened how long you're going to be paying on the mortgage. When you recast it, you're keeping the same length you have left. If you got 20 years left on the mortgage, you recast it, you still got 20 years left. You just have a lower payment because you put a bunch of money into the mortgage. So I hope that's helpful. As far as what recasting a mortgage is, if you actually want to pay the thing off sooner, just put extra money toward the principal on it. You don't have to recast it. Recasting is all about getting lower payments. By the way, you can't recast VA or FHA mortgages, but a lot of other lenders will work with you, including some jumbo mortgage lenders. All right, let's talk about non compete clauses.

Hey Dr. Dali, thank you for all you do. Wanted to ask you a question about non compete clauses. And if you end up violating your clause and have to pay a penalty, is the money that you paid for the penalty, is that tax deductible or is that something that you can write off as a business expense? Thank you.

All right, same caller has another question. Let's listen to this one before we start talking.

Hey Dodger Dawe, I have another question on non compete clauses for you. If you end up signing a non compete clause and then later decide that you're going to violate that, would you suggest being upfront with your employer and notifying them of that? Or is that viewed as their duty to find out that you have violated that? Or I guess how would you go about addressing that situation if you found yourself violating the non compete?

Okay, let's talk in general about non competes and then we'll get to these two specific questions. A non compete agreement, also known as a restrictive covenant, is something that keeps you from working near your old employment for a certain period of time. And the reason for these is to protect the employer's investment in you. Okay, imagine you've got a practice in a small town and it's getting really busy and you could use some help. So you pay for a new doc to come out and join the practice. You pay that doc's moving expenses, you pay that doc a signing bonus, you bring that doc out and you teach them how to run an efficient practice. You introduce them to the community and all your patients and then two months later the doc leaves and your employment quits the job, goes across the street, opens her own practice. How would you feel? Well, not so great, right? And so a non compete is designed to try to protect you from that sort of a situation. And so you put a radius around the practice, you say, well you can't start a practice within five miles of this practice and you can't do that for a year. That's a relatively reasonable non compete. Few would argue that's not reasonable. Now if you tried to make the non compete 100 miles and five years, that's not a very reasonable non compete, you might have some trouble enforcing that. And so the important thing about a non compete, if you want to actually be able to enforce it as an employer, is that it'd be reasonable and allowed in your state. Right? Because there's a few states that don't allow non competes, right? California, Colorado, Oklahoma, North Dakota and Minnesota, they're fully banned in those states. You can't have a non compete agreement. There are no restrictive covenants in those states. The second point about a non compete from the employee perspective, docs hate these. I've done surveys, 90% plus docs think non compete should just be totally outlawed, that they're terrible, et cetera, et cetera. Well, I don't necessarily completely agree, right? Because of that situation. Like I mentioned earlier, that's really not fair to an employer. But having a non compete for a lot of specialties is kind of silly, right? Think emergency medicine, anesthesiology, radiology, right? These sort of hospital based specialties, pediatric icu, you know, those sorts of things to say you got to go somewhere else because you're going to hurt our business. No, you're not going to hurt their business. Nobody comes to my emergency department to see me, right? They're coming there because they're having an emergency and they're picking the emergency department. Not based on who the docs are, right? So when I came to my group, they had a non compete and I'm like, well this is silly. Is your goal that I can't stay in town if you fire me or if I decide to quit? They said no, that's not our goal, we just don't want you to steal the contract. So we rewrote the non compete, just said I couldn't steal the contract. And I think that's really all you ought to be signing as any sort of a hospital based employee. It's just silly for a hospitalist to be signing a non compete agreement. That just hurts the doc and doesn't help the employer. So if there's no benefit to the employer, that seems kind of silly to me. Now if you're worried about your investment or something, your expenses that you paid for them to come out or anything like that, well, you can just require them to pay that back. If they don't stay a certain length of time, you can put that as a separate clause in the contract rather than have a restrictive covenant to try to deal with that. All right, so those are my general thoughts on non competes. By the way, the FTC is trying to pass a rule that bans non competes. The final ruling on that's expected here anytime. Those in the know are saying it should come out like April this month. So it's a problem though because it's really broad. And so those in the know also think this is headed to litigation, which means it's probably not really going to be final for another year or two. So if you're counting on this FTC ruling to go through in its current form or you're counting on it to happen relatively quickly, I think you're naive and shortsighted. It's going to take a while. I think it's going to pass in some form, but it's probably not really going to be applicable to the lives of doctors for another year or two would be my guess. Alright, now your two questions. Oh, one more thing I ought to say. The time to deal with a non compete is when you're signing the contract. Okay. Don't come back later and go oh I want to violate this non compete. Don't sign a non compete that you have any sort of possibility that you're going to need to violate it. If you cannot get a job in your town, if you quit and it's going to force you to move to another city, don't sign that non compete if you're not okay commuting as far as you need commute to get around that non compete for a year however long the non compete is, don't sign, sign it. Negotiate it up front, get your contract reviewed. We've got a recommended page for contract review firms. If you don't understand what the contract's saying, pay them to tell you what it's saying. And if it is not okay with you to have this non compete, don't sign the contract. You're in the driver's seat most of the time as a fully trained doc, they need you more than you need them. So don't be signing non competes that you're not willing to Abide by. All right. Now the first question, is it deductible if you end up having to pay the non compete? Well, if you're going from one employee job to another employee job, probably not. Starting in 2018, the tax cuts and Jobs act made it so unreimbursed employee expenses are no longer deductible. Used to deduct those on schedule A. Can't do it anymore. So if you're just going to be an employee and this is an unreimbursed employee expense, you can't deduct that. However, your new employer could pay it for you and that would be a business deduction for them. They'd take it on schedule C or whatever's applicable for their form of business. And if the new business is you being a sole proprietorship or an LLC or whatever, then it's a business expense for your new business and you could take it on schedule C as a business expense or whatever. So I wouldn't be afraid to take that. I think that's a legitimate business expense if you got to pay liquidated damages or some other sort of price to the new employer. That's not always what they require, though. It's not always you can pay your way out of this. Sometimes they get a court judgment that keeps you from practicing no matter how much you pay. You might be willing to pay $10 million and they're not willing to take it because they're mad at you and they're going to enforce it and dang it, you are not going to work within five miles of them for the next year. And they don't care that you bought a building and opened a practice and all that. The court's going to force you to close it. So this brings us to the second question. What should you do if you want to violate your non compete? Well, there are legal things and there are ethical things. Legally, I don't think there's any obligation for you to tell them. I guess if they never find out, they're never going to come after you for it. But the likelihood of that happening seems awfully low to me. Right. It's just not that hard to figure out where you're practicing. Go Google your name and it'll pop right up and they can figure out that you're not 10 miles away or whatever the non compete said you had to be. And now this puts you into a situation of uncertainty. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if they're going to take you to court or just forget about it. You don't know what they're going to ask for when they get to court. You don't know if you're going to win or they're going to win. There's a lot of uncertainty. So I think from that perspective as well as an ethical perspective, it's probably best to go and talk to them. Maybe they just let you out of it, maybe they don't. Maybe you can work something out that you can pay them a certain amount of money and they'll let you out of it. Here's $100,000. Let me out of my non compete and if nothing else, at least you'll be crystal clear on what's going to happen if you go ahead and violate it anyway. And I think that's a good thing. Just to get rid of that uncertainty will probably reduce your legal fees. But like I said, the time to deal with this is before you sign, not after you sign, not when it's time to get out of the non compete. That's going to be messy. It's probably worthwhile talking to a health care contract attorney in your state as well before doing something like this so you have a good idea of what's going to happen if you actually do have to go to court about your restrictive covenant. All right, hope that's helpful and answered your questions about non competes no more wading through dozens of books at the library, scrolling through hundreds of blog posts on dozens of blogs, or checking in daily with online forums trying to gain a financial education the way the hobbyists for a fraction of the price of hiring a professional financial planner. The Fire your financial advisor online course will take you from feeling anxious and having no plan to having a written financial plan. 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