Histamine, Mold & Menopause: Why Your Symptoms Suddenly Change

Today I'm joined by Marika Sterng. She is the creator of the SENSE framework and the author of the upcoming book Stranger in Your Own Body. She's a functional nutrition therapy practitioner and master restorative health practitioner, and she's also known as the Stress Detective. And what we're going to talk about today is something that actually affects a lot of women and most people don't know it. It is histamine, perimenopause and menopause. the underlying mechanism of histamine and mast cell and cytokine storms. So if you're an ultra-sensitive woman and you all of a sudden developed allergies, insomnia, brain fog, heart palpitations, heartburn, digestive symptoms, and everything you're trying to do isn't working, and you were told maybe that hormones were the master picture and that they would take care of everything and they haven't, you're going to want to listen to this conversation because At perimenopause, histamine issues, environmental toxins, and all of the hormones converge together and often start creating symptoms that you've never had before. So join me today on Menopause Mastery. All right, Marika. Well, you know, it's funny, we were talking before this, before we started recording, and I think we're gonna cover this very interesting area that is so misunderstood and So under-researched, and I think probably the biggest problem—it's true of everything—of how people kind of end up in this functional medicine world—it's because we end up in our in our own lives. Either ourselves or somebody close to us have this problem, and it's like okay—the tool chest of conventional world doesn't work. So you know the the whole histamine thing is so very misunderstood. But you really experience what I think is actually a bigger problem—is the fact that it comes at a time when there's even. greater chaos. And we're going to talk a lot about what that chaos is and why we feel this, but you yourself went through like this sort of uptick in histamine responses, particularly in perimenopause. So you yourself have this kind of first life experience. How did you, how did it start showing up for you? How did you kind of get here and go, oh my gosh, this is a big deal?

Yeah, I think it actually took me a long time to understand what was going on. You know, I think it started with probably Some digestive problems. And I know that many women can start experiencing heartburn and that's usually what I see also in clients. I didn't have that. So I just had, basically it impacts my digestion and there everyone is different. That's also the interesting thing. Some people respond with diarrhea, some people respond with constipation. So in my situation, it was bloating, constipation, and that can so many reasons, right? So I didn't think of histamine because it never used to be a problem for me. And then I started having skin problems. You know, I was getting these kind of random blotches and I also have rosacea and it started to, you know, get, so this was what it was, you know, these kind of blotches or like, you know, I would even get like things that look like mosquito bites, you know, but then they weren't. And then I never knew, it was like, what, you know, so you wake up in the morning and now you're like, what's this? And it's, I seem to have started having, you know, lymphatic drainage issues, like, you know, puffiness in the face, things like that. And then allergy symptoms. So it kind of gradually evolved, I think. So in the beginning, I never You know, I also have a history of mold. So I was pretty much still in my mold protocol and didn't really make the connection with the histamine at the time. You know, I thought, oh, you know, it's like SIBO and Candida and all that. And I didn't actually see the connection to, you know, when I was eating also foods that are high in histamine that I was getting the reaction afterwards. And, you know, for me, it was also like, I've never had this, right? So that can't be it. And I mean, that's, that's typically also what, what happens to, to other women. And I think, you know, what I see a lot of my clients as well, right? So, yeah.

No, it's very true. You know, it's, it's funny, years ago we had an ear, nose, and throat physician, again, somebody that's going to be Pretty immersed in the allergy world. And I remember having a conversation with him. I was relaying conversations about our clinic patients that were women that were like all of a sudden started having allergy symptoms to their environment or to a food. And he was like, you don't grow into allergies. And he goes, you just don't. And I was like, I know. Normally you have them as a kid and you grow out of them. But what we're seeing, and I live in Texas, Texas has some of the worst Allergy pollen, pollinating plants that you could have. But I was like, it is weird that all of a sudden you're 45 and you're getting these kind of symptoms. And I think 15 years ago at that point, we just didn't really have the skillset to understand what's really happening, particularly how all this converges for a perimenopausal woman. And especially, like you said, if you have other environmental exposures. It gets so, so much worse. And, I think it's— we're going to talk a lot about the enzymes and the genetics sort of play a role, but for a lot of women, it is that volatility of our hormones during perimenopause into menopause, like the estrogen spikes and the low progesterone, which are kind of buffers to what's happening. And then, the mold and mycotoxins. Did you find mold and mycotoxins in your house? Was it your daily living environment?

Yeah, we had a leak in the roof. And we didn't know it was apparently like a micro leakage over time. So there must have been only drops of water coming through and then they, over time, they infiltrated the insulation. And I mean, I had at that time, I mean, I had started getting symptoms of sinus and swollen eyes, itchy eyes, and I got really bad eczema. And I mean, actually at the same time I was, it was almost at the same time as I was following my master's training at Restorative Health Solutions where basically I was learning about the mold and all these things. And then about, yeah, and then at one point, I started seeing stains on the wall, on the ceiling. And then we got like a whole lot of rain and then there were like all stains. And I mean, the natural reaction was like, also my partner was, oh yeah, we'll just put paint over it. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, we're going to open up that damn wall, you know? Because I mean, I was like, I looked like a zombie, you know? I was like, okay, my body's definitely, you know, telling me something's wrong here. And so we opened up the wall and it was all black mold, you know, water started dripping from it. And so we don't even know how long has, had been there, but I mean, I've basically been busy with it for, I guess, good 3 years, you know, to heal my body from that exposure. And I mean, perimenopause was already ongoing, so I mean, it definitely didn't help my recovery, I'm sure. But yeah, I mean, I also wanted to, you know, I think what women always, or what you can easily mistake was actually something I was just thinking of is, you know, kind of heart palpitations at night, that kind of 3 AM awakening and, you know, or like overactive bladder or these kinds of things that we would typically associate with hormone imbalance, right? But they can also be histamine related. So, uh, that's definitely also something that started happening. happening to me. And then sometimes, you know, when you're in this perimenopause thing, you don't even know, you know, is it hormones? Is it histamine? Or, you know, what's going on?

No, it's 100% true. Well, and I think the thing particularly, like, so if we were to look at this sort of as a histamine bucket, right? So we have the hormones that are fluctuating and declining that increase, like remove the natural buffers to the histamine process. You have the environmental toxins and mold and mycotoxins. You have kind of the genetic bottlenecks that we're going to get into. And then, we have even things like trigeminal nerve alignment, dental health, airway that can all trigger it. And then, that's sort of like the bucket's now overflowing. And, the thing is people think, oh, if I have a mold exposure, I'm going to have runny nose, itchy eyes, You know, kind of your classic allergy symptoms, but it can be things like hives, flushing, insomnia, brain fog, IBS-like symptoms, Candida symptoms, you know, diarrhea, constipation, reactions to foods that used to not be that. So, I think it's so hard for someone to live in that environment because the other thing that almost always happens, which you just pointed out, is one person is the canary in the house. They're just falling apart. The other person's like, yeah, my eyes might itch a little bit.

And it's usually the women. I mean, interestingly, you know, I looked into that. It seems that women and also children are much more sensitive to mold. So, you know, I've had this also with so many clients. Uh, you're like the crazy woman in the house and your husband doesn't have anything. And it's just, oh, you're just exaggerating. Like, you know, I don't know what you have. Like, I don't have anything. So, and that's usually when they, when then women also think, well, yeah, I must actually be overreacting. And, you know, well, you know, nobody else here is sick, so it can't be that, you know.

No, it's so true. And again, like if you look at brain fog, insomnia, all the kind of high, all that stuff, if it's also a small child or a child, they'll assume it's learning difficulties and like all these other things that might show up environmentally at school. school, right? Later on in the day that, you know, we tend to label because we want to box people into this very sort of small experience, you know, experience of— we want to define it as this little tiny box. So we're going to shove somebody in it. And like you were saying, we find that all of a sudden it's like, well, you can't have histamine in your food, then you have to have a low histamine diet. We get super restrictive or women end up down this road where they're tracing Other concerns like SIBO or Candida. And so they're actually going after the wrong thing. And so I think—

Yeah, I actually had this with a client that was pretty early when she was one of my first, I guess, mold clients. And so she came to me with, she was already menopausal and she wanted to work on her hormones and her sleep was her biggest issue. She was sleeping like maybe 2 hours a night. You know, it was horrible. And so, I mean, she had a lot going on, but basically I asked her well in the beginning about mold because she also had the allergies and, you know, these kind of things. And she said, yeah, we did have mold, but, you know, we took care of it. So it's all gone now. And I'm like, okay. So, you know, so she was really sure no mold. So we worked on the hormones and we worked on her digestive symptoms and We tried everything for the sleep and it would improve a little bit and she would get better, but she never got fully better. And, you know, at one point I really said, you know, I hate to bring the mold conversation up, you know, again and again. But basically I said, you really need to investigate this because I think there's something else. You know, we basically, we've tried everything. We've done everything. You know, we've healed the gut. We've worked on all the things. We've done all the tests and The hormones are balanced now and yet you're not sleeping and your nervous system is really in overdrive. And they did find mold. So, you know, it was at another place, but basically it was where she was working from home. It was in her home office behind a wall in her air conditioning duct. And yeah. So, I mean, that's kind of the best example, I guess, now that I'm thinking back to that client that, yeah, you can do all the right things and you balance everything and you improve everything, but if you're living in mold, then yeah, you can't get better.

Yeah. And I think the challenging part too is even if you remediate the mold, like Part of it is finding it, and that's usually a little bit of a challenge because most of your testing capacity is not great, right, to find mold within an environment and then remove it because the reality is you really can't get better if you're being re-exposed every day. Yeah. And, I think that's a huge hurdle because it can be expensive, it can be time-consuming, and even if you get your house remediated, it's still in your body. And, I think that's the other thing that people They're like, oh, I had it cleaned out of my house. We're good. So, I was like, no. So, let's talk a little bit about that. Why is mold so insidious? How does it permeate the body? And, why is it so hard for women to understand that this is a long process to get rid of? It's not, I'm going to do this in 60 days. And, anybody that's doing that online and saying that they've got some sort of protocol, it doesn't work that way.

Yeah, I mean, I can definitely testify to that because, you know, that's how I actually really changed the way I practice as well, because I was applying a mold protocol to myself and my body just couldn't handle it. You know, I was just really getting worse and worse. But I mean, so essentially how this, how we actually, you know, the mold is a type of fungi, right? That produces spores and they fly everywhere and they settle on everything. And, you know, people are just so, you know, just because we don't see something, it doesn't mean that it's not there. And then, you know, as you say, people say, oh yeah, but I clean it. And I mean, I actually find it also when I'm traveling in Europe, people are so, it's like mold is normal to have and it's actually not a problem. And then you just use bleach. And then you don't see it anymore, so it's gone. So I mean, that's how many people live. I have had so many clients after that where basically we discovered that they had mold. So basically when I ask them, and so like, yeah, but well, doesn't everyone have mold? Isn't that normal that you have like mold in your bathroom? It's humid, right? Well, no, I mean, it makes you really sick. So I think that in In the US, there's more of an understanding for how it can actually impact your health. And I think that everyone who has experienced this now has a better respect for it. But yeah, I mean, basically those spores, they just settle on everywhere, on the fabrics, on the walls. So if you're not really good at cleaning basically the house, Then you will just be re-exposed to it. And basically those spores, you're breathing them in, so they settle. I've never had sinus issues in my life, but ever since I had the mold, I have them all the time. It kind of comes and goes, and then I go traveling and there's mold again, and then it comes back. So basically the spores, they're like bacteria that settle in your mucous membranes, in your nose, in your lungs, in your intestinal tract, you know, and then they show up as Candida. And, you know, I see that clients persistently have Chlamydia pneumoniae as well.

Yeah.

When, when, when they get mold exposure. And yeah, it's, I mean, for me, actually, I thought, oh no, now I had the mold. Now, now the Candida again, you know, I've had that before. You know, I was not really looking forward to it. So I tested and there wasn't Candida and I was like, oh wow, maybe I got lucky. I also don't have any symptoms until a couple of months later. Uh, I, by accident, uh, I got a, you know, like a, I went to an expo and I got a, um, like a free sample of a new supplement. And they said, you know, it was supposed to be just a butyrate thing, you know, postbiotic, but they had actually added a biofilm disruptor to it. And, you know, they didn't tell me and I just have that little box and, you know, and I was like, okay, butyrate, that's great. Yeah. So basically I took that supplement and then, you know, my like digestive hell broke loose. You know, I was getting so much bloating and gas and I didn't know what was happening, you know, I was getting so constipated and yeah, and there was the Candida. It had just been, you know, hiding away in biofilms, nice and tight.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah, and then it took some, basically then I was like, okay, I didn't get lucky. You know, you sometimes hope for that. And it actually unfortunately evolved also into SIBO and yeah, it took me a long time to actually get rid of

Yes, absolutely. So let's, you know, let's talk a little bit about kind of— I want to talk a little more about the hormone side and then the genetic side, you know, and I think it's, you know, again, because it tends to show up at hormonal time periods, particularly menopause and perimenopause, you know, because estrogen binds to the estrogen receptor alpha on mast cells, right? So mast cells are the cells that have histamine and cytokines. And so, when we get a huge amount like a very big spike of estrogen relative to progesterone in perimenopause, we can get this sort of dumping of the inflammatory response. And, that's why you might all of a sudden be like, wow, I'm getting hives, or, I'm getting eczema. But then, what's interesting is histamine then stimulates the ovaries to release more estrogen. So, it's this kind of self-reinforcing sort of loop. Yeah. And, I think the other part because I remember years ago I looked at this because I was looking at the relationship between histamine and osteoporosis because of some of these—

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, there's a relationship not just because of how we treat histamine diseases but actually because of the inflammatory cytokine response. But progesterone also upregulates the DAO enzyme, diamine oxidase, which is responsible for clearing the extracellular histamine. So the stuff that's outside. So when it starts to drop, we get this sort of, sort of this hormonal picture that just makes it massively chaotic. Yeah. And so, like you were saying, a lot of women, you find it because they have it in their house, but I notice it because women will go, I can't handle cheeses and charcuterie and wine. Because of course everybody's like, my wine is no longer my friend. I'm like, I know. And it's because all of these things can trigger additional histamine activity. But I think—

Yeah, I mean, I had already removed all those things from my diet because of the Candida, right? So, you know, that wasn't like my typical trigger, but yeah, definitely the wine, you know, also the flushing when you drink wine. Yeah.

Yeah, turning red and all of that. So let's talk a little bit about the genetics because this can also be why one woman or a man, you know, or anybody really, like you can have 2 people in the same environment and they may handle that environment or handle these hormone changes very, very differently. And I think this is the nuance that Western medicine just can't get because what they want is a very clear sort of flowchart and go, well, 80% of everybody's in this flowchart, so that's— we have to do this. But, but it can be very, very specific to kind of your combination of genes.

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, you mentioned the DAO enzyme, right? So some people, you know, but I basically, I learned, I didn't know that until recently, that the DAO enzyme activity reduces with age for everyone. So, you know, there's also people who have this kind of genetic slow DAO enzyme and they probably will have been, you know, impacted by histamine especially high histamine foods already way before that. But so in my case, there's another gene that helps to clear histamine in the liver. It's HNMT. And I have a slow version of that one. And basically ever since the mold, my liver has just been— And then on top of that, I actually have deletion of 2 of the, 3 of the GSTM genes. So, I mean, the test I was using, you know, I don't know, actually know how many of the GSTMs I have, you know, in the test there were 5 and I didn't have 3 of them. I had deletion of 3 of them. So my detox capacity is very slow. And that also, you know, that's also why I think the mold protocol, you know, kind of backfired so much for me because my body's just really slow at processing everything. And then my mind wants to go like, Okay, we'll just do this and then we're done, right? You know, be efficient. But, you know, my body's not working at all like that.

So,

yes. So, you know, it's really going with what your body can handle, taking it slow. And so, yeah, in my case, you know, my liver is just a little bit of my weak spot, definitely. So I need to be very careful with you know, how much input I'm giving. And, you know, I need to help my body a lot to detox. And there, when I say detox, you know, most people think about like drinking juice or something, but basically it's more about, you know, helping your body excrete, you know, having regular bowel movements, but also, you know, using more gentle techniques. Like I love using castor oil packs or, you know, also sometimes infrared sauna, which may also increase histamine, you know, if you, so, you know, you need to find a good balance with that. But, you know, things like that, skin dry brushing, lymphatic drainage support. So, you know, those are all things that you can do on a, more or less on a daily basis that will not, you know, take up much of your time, but that then help your body, you know, handle these things better. But, you know, that kind of makes me the perfect candidate for, you know, actually not wanting to get any of these things. Yes. And I mean, actually now I also, you know, I never thought that histamine, as I said, histamine foods, I never thought they would, they were causing me any problems. And, you know, I also saw, you know, I used to always have hormonal migraines. And then when I did get into nutrition, I was paying more attention to, you know, omega-3 fatty acid balance. And so I was eating sardines all the time, you know, and I didn't have migraines anymore. So I was like, oh my God, that's so great. You know, now I found a way to actually make sardines palatable. So, you know, I was eating all these, like, it's also so great if you're traveling, right? It's such an easy source of protein and then you have your olive oil already with it. So, you know, it's just, you know, very convenient. So I was using it a lot, but. Definitely can't handle it at the moment. And leftovers, like, that was my whole, I was very organized in, I was just cooking ahead, batch cooking. And then I was keeping grilled chicken and I was basically cooking everything ahead and then eating leftovers. And I didn't actually— realize how much it was impacting me until I went on a holiday. And, you know, despite like the, you know, all the triggers that were there, I was actually feeling much better, but that was in Asia. And, you know, so we were really going, you know, eating fresh every day, you know, so you go to the restaurant or you even go to like a You know, not even a restaurant, but they basically prepare it, you know, at the moment. So it's like, okay, actually, you know, I'm eating just fresh protein and, you know, food every day. And I can actually see that I do much better with it. So, you know, there's all these little things that can take some time to figure out, you know, on your own, especially if you're kind of set your mind to, well, that's not my problem. You know, I had my genetic test, right? So my problem was HNMT, not DAO. So I'm not in that category.

Right, right. Because HNMT as a gene helps intracellular clearance of histamine, right? So, you know, generally speaking, I won't say it's always true, but that one often shows up as things like migraine, neuro, kind of neurohistamine. So migraines, insomnia, sleep anxiety. Those things. So it's very easy to go, oh, if I have that gene, I'm going to have maybe those kinds of symptoms to foods that might contain too much histamine or really aged foods. But, but DAO is often perceived as that enzyme and, and genetic that would be more impacted by food, but that's not necessarily always true.

Okay. I didn't know that.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, cause you can take, so you can take a DAO enzyme, but you know, often People may take that and they don't feel any different. Let's, you know, so if they're eating aged foods or something leftover, they're like, oh, I'm taking DAO, so it can't be histamine. And I'm like, well, it could be. It just may not be that particular one, or it's a compounded histamine pathway problem.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

You know, you, you spoke a little bit about, uh, the glutathione genes, and I think this is really important because most people probably don't understand genetics strongly. Because you can have spelling errors in your gene, right? So, that means it was supposed to create something like a protein or an enzyme, and so it does it but it doesn't do it very well. But, the glutathione pathway in particular can have deletions like what you were talking about, the GSTM and the GSTT1 genes where you could literally have the cookbook says add colon and then that actual paragraph that says what to add is missing. Mm-hmm. So, and in your case, you have GSTM1, which all of a sudden means your major, one of your major pathways of biotransforming all of your toxins is missing some of the instructions. So, it's piss-poor at best, right? Like, if we just look at it from that standpoint, it's like not too hot, right? Not too great. But then, if you load up, okay, I've got histamines, I've got hormones, I've got environmental toxins, plastics, all that stuff, all of a sudden, You're not as capable of cleaning up environmental pollutants. So it, you know, it's, it's, you could have spelling errors in your genes and you could have deletions. And some of those deletions are really profound in different areas.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you mentioned before progesterone, right? Acting as a kind of a natural antihistamine in a sense that it would, you know, help the body clear out histamine. So, I mean, that was also one thing at the time, you know, I was already taking progesterone and, and, you know, the reflex would have been to increase that, but actually it was interacting with my Candida, it was just making it worse. So, you know, for a good amount of time, I actually couldn't tolerate oral progesterone. And, you know, in Europe, we're not really having, you know, a lot of the Topical, uh, you know, the only thing that you basically, you can order them from iHerb, you know, the, the kind of 20 milligram, very low dose, uh, progesterone creams. So, you know, that's, that's what you can get here. And then otherwise you will get on prescription the, uh, the micronized oral progesterone. So, you know, basically, you know, there's so many moving factors. So you're doing one thing right. And then, you know, and then it's not right. And then you need to adjust again. So, you know, this kind of perimenopause thing makes everything definitely much more complicated. And I actually saw the same thing when I started using estradiol because I was getting my hormonal migraines again. And then I thought, okay, now it's time to introduce estrogen. And I didn't actually think it would be so hard because I was having a really hard time too. Actually, uh, yeah, I mean, I was just not, I mean, I'm still not using a full dose actually. So I'm kind of microdosing estrogen and then I'm, I'm helping my body, uh, you know, um, with liver support and, you know, sporadically taking, uh, DIM as well to, uh, to balance out that estrogen because I have another slow, uh, excretion gene, which is the COMT. So, you know, I have this perfect combination of hormone chaos in my genetic profile. And yeah, and then you really need to, you know, then you get all the tips or basically, you know, this is what you should do, but your body's just not working that way.

Right. No, you're absolutely right. So let's talk a little bit about some practical sort of translations. Like, so if a woman's listening to this and they're like, oh my gosh, that sounds like me. You know, as, as a nutrition professional, where do you start? So, you know, I know where I would kind of start, but what do you sort of look at? Like, what tests do you think are really, really important to look at? And then how, you know, let's say it's a super sensitive woman. Let's just say they're like, I already tell that, like, I seem to be reactive to a bunch of things. Where do you start with someone like that?

Yeah, I mean, if I can, I really love to do genetic testing. But I usually, you know, depending on really what the symptoms are, I will always do an in-depth blood work. That's kind of the basics and a detailed intake. And then, you know, I'm also, you know, the way we operate in Europe, you know, there's much less of openness, I guess, for functional testing and also willingness to pay for private testing. So basically the blood work is always kind of the basics. And then if I can, I will, if somebody has suspected mold, I will run an OAT test. If If we really see there's a lot of like digestive issues, I will run one of a gut test. And I've started using the Tiny Health test, which I really like. And yeah, and then if I can, you know, with hormones, I would run a Dutch type test, you know, that kind of looks at the hormone pathways. And, you know, if really it's possible, I would also use a genetic test in that kind of order, I would say. Yeah.

Yeah.

So depending on, you know, how deep people are willing to go and, you know, what, how much they are willing to, to, to basically spend on this, but.

Yeah. So, so if somebody were listening and they were like, okay, I think I may have some things going on. Maybe I don't have access yet to you or somebody else like you. What's maybe 2 or 3 things they could try to see if this may be what's going on? Because it could be insomnia and digestive stuff. For other people, it might be heart palpitations, hives. So, you know, maybe they want to do a little bit of like fact-finding on their own. What would be 2 or 3 things that you would say, okay, if you're not sure, let's look at like, try these things and see if your symptoms get better. Like you said, oh my gosh, I got out of my house and I started eating eating fresh food and I recognized for the first time that my food prep was causing an additional histamine response because I had, you know, histamines developing in foods that have been stored, right? Leftovers.

Yeah. I think, you know, you need to do a little bit of detective work and maybe keep like a, maybe not even like a food journal, but, you know, something, something like that, you know, a little bit of a journal on, you know, how How these things are affecting, you know, how foods, you know, when you have high histamine foods, you know, like you mentioned, the wine, the cheese, the olives, charcuterie, you know, or even avocado, citrus fruit, tomatoes, eggplant, spinach, shellfish, you know, all these things are, you know, if you're eating leftovers, do you feel worse? You know, In that night, do you get insomnia? Do you get heart palpitations? Do you, you know, how do they affect your digestion? Do you get like gas, bloating, you know, these kinds of things? It's just paying attention, I guess, you know, to, you know, when do you have these symptoms? And, you know, what did you do? What did you eat? Also, what else happened, right? Because sometimes it can really also be the nervous system really, you know, about stress that you're experiencing. And I think that's also something that affects us much more as we age is, you know, we have a lower tolerance for stress. And, you know, basically there's so many things that we're used to doing, you know, being the superwoman, multitasking and, you know, handling everything. And then Just all of a sudden, it's just too much and you're not able to handle it anymore. And you're actually not realizing how much inputs your body is actually getting between social media and phone calls and work and kids and appointments and worrying. And then now I'm saying, okay, you should start tracking your food, but it's not about worrying, but it's You know, I always invite people to just pay attention without getting, you know, scared about something. And then it doesn't mean that, you know, you need to avoid this food forever, or you can never have wine anymore, or, you know, it's really about first, you know, finding out, you know, what's, how are things impacting you? And then, you know, once you know that, Then you can, then you can, you know, basically, you know, when, when you're feeling anxious and you go for a walk rather than reaching for your phone, you know, is that better? So it's about, you know, challenging, I think, yourself a little bit and, and, you know, writing things down, you know, keeping a little bit of a journal on, you know, How do things affect, you know, not only food, but what you drink? Do you even eat enough? You know, that's often also the case that most women actually don't eat enough, I find. But that's a whole different conversation. So yeah, and then never underestimate the nervous system. I mean, you mentioned in the beginning also, you know, dental work. I actually just You know, I have, I've been wearing like an Invisalign, it's called, you know, it's a, and I would have never thought, you know, it's true that I seem to be the person who's, you know, always reacting to everything, but I would have never thought how much this, you know, something I could, could impact my nervous system. So. You know, just that. And, you know, do you have anything going on like this? Are you wearing braces? Are you, do you have any dental work? Do you, did you get like body adjustments? And, you know, is, is this kind of setting up a histamine reaction, you know, or, or a nervous system reaction, you know, how environmental things, you know, like the, you mentioned allergies, do you, are you bothered by? Chemical smells or things like that. So, you know, there's a long list of things that you probably know, or, you know, people will know if they're, you know, if it's new or if they've always been bothered by them. But it's just, you know, what I would invite people to pay attention to and then, you know, write it down.

Yeah. Do you use things like vitamin C, luteolin, quercetin to stabilize some of the mast cells? Because I think a lot of people jump in and they're like, I need to detox or I need to do this heavy-duty Candida cleanse. And then they get sicker, right? Like there's a, there's an order often that somebody needs to follow and it usually isn't clearing a bunch of these things and detoxifying as fast as possible, you know, because that's going to just exacerbate everything.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And so I've been using exactly that, you know, quercetin, bioquercetin and Luteolin and vitamin C, um, with, uh, the hope that it will help stabilize my mast cells. But, uh, I have to say it's not, you know, making, making it. What's really worked wonders for me is, uh, Epsom salt foot soaks. Okay.

Yeah.

Um, you know, that literally, uh, I was sitting, you know, I came back from a walk outside and I was just You know, it seemed I was just, you know, crying. I couldn't, you know, my eyes were tearing and my nose was running and just, it just wouldn't stop, you know, even hours after I come back. And then I did an Epsom salt foot soak. And I actually did, you know, I also use an essential oil, a histamine blend. Mm-hmm. And I added that to the foot soak and within 15 minutes, The tearing stopped, my nose stopped running. I was like, wow, that's amazing. It doesn't work every time. Um, but it's definitely a good one for sure.

Yeah. I think people forget, you know, magne— Epsom salt is basically magnesium sulfate. So it supports the magnesium pathway, but sulfate is part of those detox pathways that is so, so important, you know? So, and I think, you know, the other thing that I just want to touch on, because obviously at Minerva and my clinic, we do hormone replacement. And hormones can often— I know in Europe it's a lot harder. It's harder to just get hormones. Like you said, it's hard to get a variety and choices. Hormones are a part of this picture often because you can stabilize them by restoring progesterone or stabilizing estrogen, but they're not a panacea. Like, they're not going to make everything perfect, you know, because I think that perception is also kind of on the internet, like, oh, everybody just needs hormones. That's all it is. And I was like, yes, And there's probably some other things going on that are contributing, and hormones may not be the first place, or you have to be very kind of methodical about adding those in while you're working on all these other, these other concerns.

It's a little bit like peptides, right?

Yeah. Yeah. The whole peptide game.

You want to do the base work as well. But I think what I often see is the expectation with women is, oh, I finally got my hormones and now I will, you know, and then they start taking them and they just expect everything to go away immediately. And then there's also, you know, a lot of women who have a reaction to progesterone, or as I said, you know, with, for me, estrogen, it wasn't pretty in the beginning, you know, I was having the tender breasts, and I was getting bloated again, I was having all these symptoms of like excess estrogen. It's like, okay, that's not good. So I really need to kind of slow this down here. So it's, it's not on and off, right? It's not now, day 1, you start and then you just rub on some estrogen and then it's all good again. Sometimes you, you really need to, you know, you really need to go slow and, you know, and some women can just, you know, they will just go to the doctor and they get the standard dose prescription and they start taking it and it's all wonderful. But, you know, there's many other women who are not that way and who then actually, unfortunately, what I see is they go like, oh, I tried it, but, you know, hormones just make me feel worse.

Yeah.

And then they just put them in the corner and don't touch them anymore. Although, you know, if they would just seek the proper help of, you know, somebody like you and your team, as well, and, you know, help— helping them to get, to get there the right way, then, you know, they could actually see the improvement. It just sometimes it's not, you know, as easy as we may expect it to be, or, you know, just this kind of on switch that's suddenly there.

Absolutely. Now you have a free gift you wanted to give to the Menopause Mastery listeners. It was a 7-day calm energy reset guide. Tell, tell my listeners about that so they know, because there's things that you can do. It doesn't mean you have to like jump in on the deep end. Tell my listeners about that gift.

Yeah, so it's a guide I created. And, you know, it's also basically, I've also just written a book and, you know, the guide will also be like part of it as a gift. But it's, it's really a resource that I created for, you know, the hypersensitive client and, you know, somebody who feels like they really need some calm. And so it's essentially a 7-day guide, you know, as the name says, that helps women to do a little bit of that detective work, you know, to write things down and it gives you one small thing to do every day, you know, and all these things will help, you know, it's either your blood sugar, blood sugar stabilization, or it's, you know, maybe trying a meditation technique, or, you know, just, you know, easy, the Epsom salt foot soak is also part of it. So there's one easy task every day that you can do. And then there's also, you know, room to reflect a little bit. So I find it's, you know, it's basically taking you by the hand and telling you, okay, today you do this and tomorrow you do this. And then it's basically, you know, after one week you should have, you know, you should feel a bit calmer, but also have a nice toolbox of things that you can use when you have those feelings of overwhelm and overdrive.

Fantastic. So we will have a link to that in the show notes for everybody. So everybody go get your calm, get your calm on. And Marika, this has been such a fabulous conversation. I think so many women are struggling here and they just don't know, and conventional medicine has absolutely failed in this arena.

Yeah,

absolutely.

Yeah. I really, you know, thank you so much for having me. It's, it's been a pleasure having this conversation with you.

Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. And for everybody listening to Menopause Mastery, if you happen to be listening on your favorite podcast platform, please don't forget to give us a 5-star rating that helps us get exposure and helps us get Better shows, better guests, all that kind of fun stuff. And if you happen to be watching on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to leave a comment below this video and let us know what you thought about it, or if there's content that you're looking for, let me know. And I'll be back with you next week on Menopause Mastery.