Music, Technology and Writing Spun into Gold (and Platinum) with David Frangioni

Living a Life in Full is a conversation you always wanted to have with that person who gave an amazing TED Talk or the author of one of your favorite books, or that inspirational Olympian you always wanted to know more about. It's graduate level conversations with those making a difference in the world and in the lives of others. This show brings you new ideas and approaches so that you can live a life in full. I'm your host, Dr. Chris Stout and I hope you enjoy this episode. This episode of Living a Life in Full is brought to you by ATI Physical Therapy. If you need physical therapy, choose ati. ATI offers exceptional care, trusted expertise and remarkable outcomes customized to your needs. ATI has over 800 clinics coast to coast in 25 states. Want to start feeling better fast? ATI can help address chronic pain or recovery from an injury or surgery expertly, quickly and conveniently. ATI's first program uses a performance based methodology to safely return injured workers to their workplace. FIRST is designed to increase strength, endurance and cardiovascular functioning. ATI's sports medicine provides athletic training services to help athletes get back in the game. ATI has hundreds of professional, collegiate, high school, middle school and club relationships nationwide. ATI also offers a variety of specialty services including home health, hand therapy and women's health. To Learn more about ATI's advances in evidence based practice, clinical outcomes and their innovative new smartphone app, please visit atipt.com welcome to another episode of Living a Life in Full. I'm your host, Dr. Chris Stout. I'm very excited to have David Frangione on the show today. He's quite the polymath. He's an entrepreneur. He's an award winning veteran of the music industry, a technologist, a producer, an engineer, an author, and perhaps and most fundamentally a drummer. He's the founder of Audio One and CEO of Frangioni Media, an all access IDA which stands for Inspire and Develop Artists. He's dedicated his life to designing and building world class studios, production facilities and innovative music technology solutions in order to produce music and develop artists. And he's just recently become the publisher of Modern Drummer magazine. David is also the recipient of dozens of gold and platinum albums with credits that include and listen to this list. Rolling Stones, Ringo Starr, Elton John, Sting, Brian Adams, Kiss, Journey, Styx, Shakira, Rascal, Flatts, Cherry, Phil Collins, Pat Matheny, Ozzy Osbourne, and Chick Corea. And honestly, that's only naming a few. He was the chief technologist for Aerosmith for over a decade and gained notoriety as the technologist for Ozzy Osbourne having built two of his studios and multiple home automation systems for the rock legend and has also appeared in multiple episodes of the hit MTV show the Osbournes. David has also written three bestsellers including Clint Eastwood Icon and his latest Crash, which believe you me, we'll do a fun deep div. As a philanthropist, he served as a board member and musical director for the Little Dreams foundation with Phil Collins. He's also participated in Musicians on Call and worked with the Erie foundation and established the Frangioni Foundation, a non profit which David established to help children through faith, music, mentoring and of course, drumming. Hey David, welcome to the show.

Great to be here.

Thank you. You bet. Very excited to have you on. So just maybe to start and set a little bit of context. You and I were connected through a mutual. And Michael Sheehan, who's also been on the show. How do you guys know each other?

I've known Michael for almost 20 years. We met in South Florida and then he moved to New York and we kept in touch and our paths just keep crossing.

That's very cool. It was nice of him to make the connection and doing the research and learning more about you is fantastic. So I'm anxious to have a chance to get in and do a deeper dive. So I have to admit your life is really full. So I'm going to jump around a little bit to cover some of the questions that I have, but I miss. Maybe one of the things I'm most curious about from your intro is how does one become the chief technologist for Aerosmith and Ozzy?

Well, it starts with really working hard to know your craft. And I'm from Boston where Aerosmith was based and has been based for pretty much their whole career. And I was working really hard in Boston and got referred to them and you know, was just able to contribute enough that I worked with them for a long time, still work with them.

So is it.

I was in house with them for over 10 years.

Is it working in the studio with. With putting songs together or what does a chief. I know from like the business world of like what a chief technology officer does or in health care, but what's it like in music?

In music it's a one man show. It's basically, you know, it allows Steven and Joe and the band to focus on writing and creating and I, you know, run the equipment and am just, you know, doing all the different aspects from engineering to programming to MIDI routing, you know, everything that has to do with how the studio functions so we can capture what they create and we can give them the instruments to create, because even a guitar, you know, the most organic acoustic instrument, you still have microphones and levels and a lot of electronics in the path for someone to actually hear the recording of the guitar. So there's a lot that goes into it. And that period of time with Aerosmith, where I was in the studio with him a lot in the 90s, essentially, like 89 to 01ish, it was just a really incredibly, you know, time of growth and learning and being inspired. And even though it was very technical, what I was doing, it was also very creative and it was just an incredible time. And then what ended up coming out of those years were Aerosmith albums that I'm really proud to have been a part of. You know, like, Get a Grip and, you know, just Push Play and Nine Lives and, you know, it was just some really great music that we had a lot of fun and put a lot of work into making.

Wow, that's great. Well, let's maybe even dial it back a little bit further. I know I want to talk about what you're currently up to and future projects as well, but maybe just again, for context, setting. I know that when you were young, you had a medical issue that you and your family had to deal with. Could you share that story with our listeners?

Yes. It really shaped my life. When I was 2, I was diagnosed with retinoblastoma, which is cancer of the eye. And as a result, my right eye had to be removed and a prosthetic was put in its place, a removable prosthetic. So multiple traumas essentially came from that. And with that were blessings because I've never known what it's like to see out of two eyes. So I think that that was a blessing because I think it's a lot harder to lose vision in an eye later in life than only know that. And it strengthened my left eye and my other senses as well. And it really was what got me in touch with how much I love music and later on, technology. Because I was a loner and, you know, I was dealing with the hospitals and the doctors and all of the trauma that went with, you know, eye cancer. And, you know, being that young and I found music as a refuge. And don't ask me how a drum set appeared in our house, because we don't have a musical family. We didn't have one. And, you know, right before I got diagnosed with retinoblastoma, there's pictures of me beating the heck out of paper drum set. So it really was with me from, you know, the one year old, 18 months. I mean, just really, I don't know why, you know, people say that when you have a career in music that, you know, you don't choose the music, the music chooses you. And you know, somehow that was the case here too.

So being a musician then, in doing my research, I found that you were actually playing gigs when you were like 12 years old. Is that my facts straight?

Yep. No. You do those? Yeah. I was playing from a very young age. My parents were very serious about anything that you were gonna do. You had to do it right and you had to be the best at it. So they insisted that I always take lessons, learn how to read music. And you know, I was either gonna play the drums for real or, you know, I wasn't gonna call myself a drummer. There was no fooling around with anything in my house, no way. So I was playing, you know, on a practice pad and learned a little bit of piano and learned it, you know, started studying the drums in elementary school with the in house school music teacher, Mr. Hurwitz. And then they saw that I was really serious about it. Now I'm about 8 years old and I was playing on phone books and practice pads and I would take drum set lessons every Saturday and at the local music store. And I didn't even have a drum set. I would play the drum set, drums, essentially the different tom toms and snare, etc. On phone books in the practice pad. And then once my parents saw that I was practicing and that I was really going for it even without drums, they saved up because we come from very, very modest means. You know, we, we really didn't have a lot of material things at all. But my parents worked real. We always had a roof over our head and a meal. And so they saved up and got me a used Rogers pink champagne drum kit, four piece kit, and took it from there.

That's amazing. And then you also, a few years after that, started your consulting business and getting your entrepreneurial chops going that you're obviously still doing in some probably different ways today. But what was that about? What was your first business doing?

Well, I found that I liked business a lot and when I started playing gigs, I became the leader of the bands pretty quick. I just naturally kind of took control, started, you know, booking the bands and dealing with the club booking agents, in some cases the club owners. And that was just a huge lesson on so many levels. And we're not talking about, you know, straight up contract based business people at this time we're talking about, you know, we'll give you 100 bucks to play the gig and then you get there and you never see the hundred dollars and then you have to chase them for 50 if you get anything, you know. But you played the gig and you learned another lesson as to, oh, okay, we need to have contracts. We can't just do everything verbally. Oh, okay, we need to get paid when we, you know, set up and not, you know, not wait till after the gig. And you just learn, learn, learn. And, you know, it really was a huge lesson. And so as I started to transition from being what I wanted to and thought I was going to become a full time professional drummer into being into music technology and the business side of music. I started this consulting business because I really, I wanted to keep learning. I wanted to make a living at it. I wanted to challenge myself, I wanted to grow as fast as I could, but in the right way where I really learned things and kept progressing. And the MIDI consulting business was a great way to do that. And the timing was really good because it was brand new and I was really the only guy in town doing it. And I built up a really great clientele and in the same process, again took my business learning to another level because it was a very different clientele than dealing with the bands where now I'm dealing with wealthy people that have big MIDI rigs or professional artists who have big MIDI rigs and need someone to help and consult and put it all together. So that was a much more refined, sophisticated, and demanding and honest clientele that, you know, I was starting to now, you know, develop better business chops to handle and to be successful.

So I have to say I'm amazed. The diversity of the types of music and the types of artists that you've been involved with that, that span, you know, decades and tastes, how is it that you would be on their radar and how is it that you're. You're so pl.

Well, the plural aspect is that I just never stop learning and trying to be better. And in doing that, it gives me more ability to serve all different types of artists and situations and clients. And then in terms of, you know, building up a clientele and getting some great credits and artists with whom to work, it was really just through hard work and I got a lot of my work through word of mouth. I still do. And, you know, the people, you know, people know when you know what you're doing and they see what you've accomplished, there's a lot of evidence now at this stage of my career, of what I can do and how I do it and what the results are. And so I think really smart people that have big goals that they need someone to come in and fulfill, see what I do and say, okay, this guy can do it. And I get hired and it just keeps growing.

So is the basis Audio One, or is it Frangione Media or bring us from that point in time to current day?

Well, the difference between those companies is what lane they travel in. So Audio One is for home theaters and home automation systems and large scale, especially in the home automation world. We're doing large estates, controlling homes that typically have, you know, dozens if not hundreds of zones of lights and motorized window treatments and, you know, speaker zones for audio and displays televisions everywhere. And there's usually a pretty serious security component to it. And that's the home world. It's all about someone's home, living space, condo, estate, whatever. And in the home theater side, because some clients just have us do smart homes and they're not really interested in home theater and other clients are really into home theater. So we end up doing both, you know, we end up doing both types of systems for them. And then Frangioni Media is the pro world. It's everything that Audio One doesn't do. Where we build recording studios, digital facilities, backline rigs, you know, really incredible live sound systems, all turnkey projects. Where I've put my focus in my career is doing the whole project. So where some guys will sell you the equipment and then someone else will design the room and someone else will do the acoustics and someone else will do the isolation and someone else will do the construction. And you know, you have all these elements to say a recording studio. And it's very difficult to find someone that does it all. And the reason that I focused on that wasn't just to fill a niche, but it was to, because it was the only way I could get the result that I wanted is I found early on when I took different elements of a build out, we'll call it like, let's say that you wanted a recording studio and you have this space and you're like, okay, when you know, here's the space where we're starting and this is what I need to do. When you're finished. Well, all the work between the empty space and the finished working studio, whenever I did different elements of it and not all of it, it never came out right. And I said, you know, I've got to keep learning about things that I Didn't really want to learn about. I never really was interested in carpentry, for instance, but. But I got involved in it so that I could bring in somebody that is passionate and qualified in carpentry and can follow my plan. So it was as if I did the carpentry and I would just do it turnkey. So now when I do these projects, I, the entire project are my, is my team and it comes out the way that I want it to, which has consistently pleased my clients.

That's great. What's been maybe without giving away any names or anything, what's been some of the most challenging projects that you've had to deal with?

There's been lots. Every project has challenges and then there's the really challenging ones. I mean, some of them have been really challenging because they've been in remote locations. You know, I've done really, really big projects in Africa and some really big projects in the Caribbean and in the Bahamas. And when you're dealing with, when you go offshore, of course, I'm based in the, in the States. I was in Boston, but I moved to Miami over 20 years ago, so I'm now based out of South Florida. And when you, you know, when you go offshore, and especially as you get a little more third world in terms of what's available in that, you know, city or country, a lot of challenges start to mount just by default, right? There's no, there's no Home Depot down the street if you're missing a part. So it really gets your organizational systems perfected because once you can work in those locations, the efficiency level when you have a lot of resources really goes even better and better. And you know, and I've had a lot of technological challenges that clients have posed to me. I mean, I remember really, really early on, a really famous person asked me, they said we can't have. This is like in the early 2000s, we can't have a window in this part of our home. And so we want you to put a high def camera that gets us the view we would have if we did have a window. And I want you to put a display so that it's like a window. And you know, the technology was. Nowadays that's much easier to do. You've got such high resolution, you know, technology available and especially in video. But then it was really trick because there, there weren't a lot of options to get the quality so that it really did look as if you were looking out the window and, and had that kind of, you know, that clarity and that vividness so that, so that it didn't look, you know, it had to look as transparent as possible. And so there were a lot of things we had to do to accomplish that. But you know, I've been really, I've, I've always taken the approach that if I take the job, it gets done. So I've never had a project and I know this sounds, you know, exaggerated, but it isn't. It's, it's just a fact. I've never had a project that I couldn't accomplish.

Wow.

And so with all the technical challenges that we're talking about and that I've experienced, they've all been met. And if I saw a project that was not that, I really, truly, there wasn't a solution because either it wasn't cost effective and realistic, or the technology just wasn't ready yet, then I would always put forth, here's what we can do based on the vision that you have and, you know, and always find a solution or give the client the option to say, oh, okay, well, it's just not ready for what I have in my mind. So we'll wait and we'll do it when it is ready. And so it just leads to happy clients.

That's great. So do you sort of have a vision on the horizon of like, what next technologies are, you know, going to be here in 15 minutes kind of thing?

Well, I'm working with one that I think is going to be groundbreaking and that is in the, in the recording studio and acoustic space field. And if you think about it, it's, it's pretty easy to understand what a recording studio is. Most people know that by now, but they don't really think about acoustic spaces like how many different places you need a proper acoustic space. You could need one at a hospital where you know, you want, you need a quiet, proper, treated space. You have one in a stock brokerage firm where you need a yoga room where you have to decompress and you can't have the outside noise interfere with it, you know, broadcasts all the types of rooms you need in order to edit material. There's myriad possibilities in places. So to address that, which we've been doing up until now with custom built spaces, as we've been talking about now and I've been working on for many, many years, we came up with this concept called modular studios. And it's essentially a LEGO set, a big giant LEGO set that you put together in the space that you have. And you have a recording studio or a proper acoustic space in 12 hours. Wow. Now we're talking about build outs that would take three to six months with carpentry crews every day and the noise and the debris and everything else that goes into building a proper studio. Right. And we're talking about replacing that with two guys could be wearing a suit and they put this big LEGO set together and you've got a space. So I think that's the future and we're putting a lot of energy into this. It's not released yet.

It's.

Right. We're actually just rolling out now our first round of products. So it's very early, but it's going to be the de facto standard within the next couple of years.

That is brilliant. Well, let us know links and stuff. We'll connect that up into the show notes as well too. That just sounds pretty amazing. I really appreciate the fact of, you know, just the, the demolition process or the building process and the, you know, just all the, like you were saying, like the stuff that you never really think about. You think about the finished product but you don't think about the mess and the time and the hassle and whatever is that can happen on the way to getting there. That's brilliant.

Well, thank you.

Let's shift gears a little bit. I want to talk a little bit about all excess ida. So the IDA team seems to have worked with a number of impressive list of stars. Tell us what it's about and what its goals are.

Well, I started All Access IDA inspire and develop artists to essentially provide artists with what they didn't even realize. This is up and coming artists or aspiring artists that didn't realize what they really needed.

Right.

They, they had the passion and they had the drive and they had the talent and then they didn't really know what else do I need if the world's gonna hear me perform and know me as an artist. So originally a very brilliant producer and songwriter named Rudy Perez, inspiration of mine, he and I formed this originally and we were doing it as seminars and it was very, very successful. And we had a lot of artists come and then we realized that we wanted to do it a little differently. We're not saying we'll never do seminars again, but we essentially, we kind of went in our own lanes from this and are doing this, you know, now kind of one on one, which is we decided let's work with an artist and let's take the role that used to be a record company and an investor, if you will, and all these different people that would come into an artist's Life and give them development and direction and resources and let's make it a business. And it's a business that really is needed. There are artists out there that have the means and the talent, but they don't have a team and they don't know what to do with the means and the talent. And I hear all the time artists that they spend all kinds of money and they essentially feel ripped off because somebody came in and did what they thought should happen with the artists and took a lot of money for their time and resources, but it didn't lead to anything for the artist. They spent a lot, but they didn't get a lot. And so this addresses that. We go in, we work with an artist very closely and we essentially put a game plan together and help them execute it. And every project we work on has a goal and the goals are all different. You know, some artists want to, you know, they want to be famous and they want to, you know, take that road. They want to be Adele, you know, or Ariana Grande. And so, you know, we have to get them to the point where they're ready and they've got the material and they've got all of the foundation. And then of course they'll need a manager and they'll need some form of a label and we hand them off at that point. We don't sign them to. They're not locked into us with any percentages or anything like that. That was another part of the business that I thought was a. Was not as clean as I personally wanted it to be. Where you meet somebody early in your career and they see that you're talented and they sign a deal with you and. And then you're locked in before you even realize what you're locked into. So we do it by, you know, just as like consulting fees essentially. And then when you finish with the work that we do, you're, you know, you're free to go and work with whoever you want and you'll have 100% of, you know, of your art and ownership. And I just think it's a win, win for everybody. And the artists with whom we've worked, it's been a very successful relationship and we've been able to accomplish whatever goals the artist has. And they're all different. You know, we have, we have clients that the parents. A lot of times the parents come to me, kind of starts there because the artists are, you know, fairly young either teens, you know, so anywhere from early teens to early 20s and the parents are kind of running the show. As they should be on, you know what, you know, this is what I really would like to see happen for my child. And sometimes it's to get them through an addiction, sometimes it's to get them to realize if they want to be an artist and what that really looks like. And sometimes it's, you know, it's full on like, okay, we want the best development we can possibly get and this is the period of time that we want to work and this is the result we want to achieve. And so it's all different things.

It's, it reminds me a lot of almost like a, the musical artist version of like a startup or something. And that you get the basics put together, you look at viability, you look at what some of the needs are. I appreciate the fact too that there's so many stories out there of, you know, people, you know, talent being taken advantage of and signing contracts that they have no idea kind of what they're signing away. And the fact that you guys are, you know, work in transparency and work collaboratively and do it in a very straightforward way that then gives them the opportunity to, in the business world, to ipo, you know, or to whatever, but to be able to then launch and go on with whatever that career might turn out to be. I think that's, that's a great service.

Well, and that's a great comparison because that is very much what it's like. Well, there's, that's one of the reasons it works.

Yeah, it's like there's no guidebook out there to say, well, you know, how do I vet a contract? What's, you know, what's good? What do these terms mean? People 18 year olds, 16 year olds, even with well intended parents oftentimes don't know. Do I get an entertainment attorney to read this contract and how do I find one and how do I know that that one's the right one or whatever. So I think that's a great perspective and great service.

No, you're absolutely right. There isn't a guidebook to it. And because of that, there's a million opinions. And in the million opinions, every single one of them, if you were to speak individually, all million, there would be literally 1 million very different confident approaches that disregarded the other 999,000, right, and said, no, those aren't going to work. And so when you get into five of those, right, forget a million, you get into five of them and your head's going to explode with, you know, do I listen to and what do I do?

Yeah.

And so, you know, we. When. When I work with a client, you know, that's. That's solved because I'm the person, I'm the quarterback and I'm the coach, and I'm the person you're going to listen to for the period of time that we have this game plan in place. And then from there you're going to get your result and you're going to go on to the next. Next step.

I really like that. So I want to shift gears again a little bit. On your website, you talk a lot about escapism as kind of like a perspective philosophy. Can you tell us what the thinking is behind that concept and why it's so important to you?

Well, escapism is what all of us do when we essentially, you know, want to just get out of our routine or accomplish something that's. That's fulfilling. And there's healthy outlets and there's unhealthy outlets. And my goal with escapism is healthy outlets, strictly healthy outlets. Even if you take them to the max and you take. Even if you took an unhealthy approach, like I have many times in my life and just worked, worked, worked, and just like, so laser focused on something, that's all I did. But the end result was healthy because I learned, first of all, how to balance better even by being out of balance at first. And second of all, and just as importantly, I accomplish something that was enriching and, and. And very much nurturing my spirit and my soul. It was a healthy outlet, whether it was authoring the books. We talked about what we're going to talk about, you know, developing artists, getting better at the drums, getting better at technology, mixing records, building studios, all of those things were healthy outlets. And when I work with clients, when I finish a home theater for somebody that's very much an escape place, even if they're in the business and they're looking at films that they made in the theater, it's all still around escape. Why do people go to the movies? You know, and I'm not saying it's a conscious thing. Like, you know, hey, I've got to get out of this problem that I'm in. So I'm going to go see a movie. But why does anybody go to a movie?

Right?

Why does anybody listen to music? It's to have a certain feeling. Yeah, A certain emotion. So escape isn't necessarily this big, heavy thing that, you know, there's something wrong, so I need to go somewhere else. Everything could be great and you still want to enjoy a movie. You still want to lose yourself in a great script or a great story or a great character. I mean, it's not, you know, it's all positive in what I'm describing. And then there, of course, there are extreme situations where people are very challenged and, you know, they do want to go somewhere else and escape. And I, you know, have found that a much better way to do that than taking a drug or drinking or doing some things that I don't consider healthy outlets would be some of the things we're talking about that would fall again under escapism.

That's great. So you mentioned the books. Let's talk about your literary work. I've actually. I've read the Clint Eastwood Icon, the Essential Film Art Collection, Revised and expanded Edition. So I read the. The second one and just.

Thanks. Yeah, yeah, that's my second book.

Yeah, it's just really. It's really cool. I mean, it's just sort of amazing. I want to dive into that and then also just to say. And we'll go do a deep dive in this one as well. Your. Your latest, Crash, the world's greatest drum kits. From a piece to Perth to Pert to Van Halen. So let's. Let's start with the Icon book. For people that haven't seen it, go pick it up. It's just. It's really amazing. Rare photography never seen before. Content based upon what? As I understand you have this collection of film art and material representing Clint Eastwood's career. Is that correct? That most of the are. Most of the things. Are all the things yours?

Yep, I do. So that. That is my. That is from my collection. Again, collecting for me has been a healthy outlet and I love. I love collecting. And it's like the drums. Like, I don't know why. I don't know what happened to me that the drums became such a passion and so embedded in my DNA. And the same thing happened with collecting, and it's. It's had different forms. I've collected baseball cards and of course, we're talking about the Clint Eastwood memorabilia and the drum kits that are in Crash. And it's just been a labor of love and something that's just. It's really exciting because the cool thing about the stuff that I've collected anyway is that you never really finish.

Right.

So you're always like, whenever you think, okay, I've got all the items that they use to promote Dirty Harry, like one of my favorite films and iconic, not only as a film, but in all of its Advertising, merchandise, and do you feel lucky and all of these things. And then later on, right in Sudden Impact, go ahead, make my day. And just, you know, pop culture.

Yeah.

Iconic. Just when you think, I've got the. You know, I've got it all, like, I represent the whole piece. And then again, remember, once you do, if you ever do have it all, you know, what are you gonna do? You're gonna display it like, I put it in the book or sell it or, you know, do something, because now you have it.

Right?

But the funny thing is, you never really do. You never like, every time I think, okay, I think I've got everything in that movie, somebody emails me from, you know, London and says, oh, did you ever see this? And it's some, like, bus stop poster from 1971. There might be two of. In the world. And this guy has them and he's not selling them.

Wow.

And that's that. So you literally. You put it in. You put it on your checklist and you put it in your. Your knowledge base, like, okay, it exists. And then you try to find it because he's not selling, and. And you may never find it.

Wow. Wow.

There's a lot of one off. There's a lot of items that. There's literally one that's in existence still.

Yeah. I could see from the, you know, just over the passage of time that there would have been, you know, x. Hundreds or thousands, but then, you know, over time, or shows up in, you know, Aunt Gertrude's attic or something like that and resurfaces. I mean, you hear that about all sorts of collectibles that are like these, you know, like, you know, what? The watch from Apocalypse now that Marlon Brando wore, you know, and stuff, I guess, has now come up for auction. Like, wow, who would. I wouldn't have even thought that there was. And it was like a special Rolex or something. So these kinds of things. It would. Does it. Does it excite you, or does it sometimes kind of drive you crazy to say, like, oh, man, like, whack a mole or something? Like, I wish this guy would have never sent me this. This, you know, bus stop poster kind of thing?

Oh, no. Well, it does both. Right? But no, I want to know. Even if I, you know, even though I don't have it and he may have the only copy and he's never selling, I still want to know it exists. I want to be a completist.

That's good.

And look, the fact is, it exists whether I have it or not doesn't Change the fact that it.

That's a good point. That's a good point.

So you've gotta, you gotta know. If you're gonna, if you're gonna be an expert in it and you're really gonna understand it and, and be a completist, then you need to know. And that's not always, you know, it's not always the best news. Yeah, but. But it's the truth, and that's what's important. And the facts. And that's why I did the book, is that I thought there were a lot of people out there that really. If we take Clint Eastwood icon, for example, there are a lot of people that love Clint Eastwood's films. There's a lot of collectors of movie posters, not just Clint Eastwood film movie posters, but just posters in general. And there's a lot of people that collect just because they love to collect, whether it's stamps, coins, cards, posters. So the book kind of covers all three of those types of people to give them something that they can put on their coffee table that's entertaining to read and to share with other people. And when you go through it, even if you don't collect Clint Eastwood posters and you don't collect movie posters at all, you go through it and you can appreciate the great art and you can appreciate the great films. And that was really the whole point of it. And I get so much positive feedback, which means that what I set out to do, actually I was able to do where people say to me, you know, look, I don't collect posters, and I'm not necessarily the biggest Clint Eastwood film fan in the world, but the books on my coffee table, people come over and they undoubtedly pick up Good, Bad, Ugly, Dirty Harry, Sudden Impact, Unforgiven, Gran Torino, like just these iconic films. And, and it's just great. People talk about them and relive memories and it's just awesome.

So what's, what's your collection up to now in terms of pieces?

You know, I don't keep. I know for the book in the promotion we say over 10,000 pieces because we wanted to establish that this was

a vast collection, not a passing fancy. Yeah.

And I don't, I don't really. I can't tell you an exact number. I go movie by movie and try to get all of the different items for the different movies. And what I, what I was doing is years ago, I was running out of space. And so to kind of offset that, that situation, I started to sell different movies that I didn't want all the different items for. And I just kind of stuck with the spaghetti westerns and the five Dirty Harry films as my main focus day to day, just because of space. Clint's done so many dozens of films and there's so much material on every film because remember, it's not just us, it's the whole world.

Yeah, I remember seeing like, especially like some of the Japanese language ones and stuff. It's like, you know, it's kind of cool to see them in a different language as well too.

Oh, it's great. And it's so cool to see how in the different countries, the approach to marketing the movie and telling the movie story in these, this material, how different it is and it's really interesting. And. And then of course, then we went to Crash, the world's greatest drum kids. And that book, of course, is dear to my heart because it's drums, but it's also a collection. And that collection was for me, more about preserving the drums and not having these kits just kind of go the way that so many drum kits end up, which is dismantled and, and you know, kind of gone forever.

Wow. Wow.

But these kits be, you know, preserved and people will be able to enjoy them long past our lives.

Well, it's sort of like, it seems like the stuff that you see a lot in places like I even saw like, gosh, I can't remember, it was Jimmy Page's guitar or something. Some record company went public or something with the nyse and they had in. In the offices of the nyse, his guitar, you know, signed and like, you know, mounted. It's real easy to have a guitar be a piece of art, you know, or a little wall sculpture kind of thing. It's a different, you know, different beast, you know, for, for drum kits and things like that. So I want to. You've. You've led us over into Crash. So I want to use a quote of what your book has been described as. So quote. The definitive illustrated history of the drum kits of rock and roll legends and the ultimate photographic guide to the world of rock and roll' famous drum kits. Featuring images from live concerts, outdoor festivals and private recording sessions, the spectacular volume captures the personal connection between artist and instrument. And I, I have to say, I mean, it is beautifully photographed and it's so the way that you. Your research in it was just amazing. I loved where you had opportunities to do it of like what the. The drummer looked like, you know, in 1976 or something, and then, you know, the drummer playing, you know, at some other gig in 2015 and it was just wonderful to kind of see that history, which I find, you know, just personally, you know, kind of fascinating. And then I never, it never occurred to me until Crash to like, to know like the, the makes and the models of the kits and then to learn the histories of the kits and the special characteristics and then, you know, in some, most instances of what's in your book, you know, the significance to rock history. And then, you know, the, the backstories of the drummers and the backstories of the histories. And I just, I, I am a big fan of this book. It is just beautifully photographed and, you know, whether or not you're into rock and roll, whether or not you're into music, you know, or any of these one things, it's still, people are going to enjoy this book because it is just so well crafted. And again, David, I have to circle back to you to go, what can't you do? I mean, honest to God, it's, I know how hard it is to write and to write what you wrote in that book and the way you did it and the amount of research that must have gone into that. I mean, you, you, you go into the esoterica stuff is like, how did he learn that? How did you know? This is not, not that I'm a rock and roll historian, but I mean, you did just an amazing job on that. So tip of the hat. Gosh. How. Well, how did it. Thank you. I mean, I know from the collection, like you said, but tell us about how you did it, how you, you did the stories, how you sourced the historic photography, how, you know, you put the stories together.

Well, I, first of all, I had a great team, great publisher, Inside Editions. Mark Weiss, world famous rock photographer, he shot all the drum kits at my museum. And I just had some great people working on it. And so I think it's, I think, you know, I've learned that it's one thing to envision what it is that you want to accomplish, but it's a whole nother vision that's just as important or, you know, more important in some cases, but certainly as important. That that second vision is how and who. And sometimes the how isn't even as important, but the who is critical. And that's really, you know, the same with the book. It's. When we talked earlier about when I, you know, that I do turnkey projects and bring a team in. It's the same thing with the book where I, you know, I first, I had the vision for the book and what I wanted it to accomplish what I wanted it to look like and be for people. What, you know, why did they need to hold CRASH in their hands? What were they gonna get from it? And all the things you described, which, thank you very much, was very eloquently said, and I appreciate the compliments. All the things you described were, you know, really what we targeted to accomplish was somebody had a really great, fun rock and roll drumming book. And again, it's not just for one type of person. It's not just for drummers, it's not just for collectors, it's not just for rockers, it's for all of those different kinds of people. And. And it's a great coffee table book as icon is where if you're not interested in any of those things, but you just have a general interest in music, you collect guitars or. Or you don't collect anything, but you just like music. It's a cool book to have because you open it up and if you don't read any of the text and any of the research that you mentioned that I. That I had to do, my team and I had to do, then you still have a great book. And that was really important to me is I wanted the visual experience of my books, at least the first three that I've done. I wanted them to be the statement. I wanted you to be able to thumb through them, and if you didn't read a word, you really enjoyed the book.

Yeah. And I have to say.

But if you did read, you enjoyed the book even more.

Yeah.

Right. Because some books are pictures only, and there's just little captions.

Yeah.

But I wanted this to be both. And so that's what. That's what we were able to accomplish. And, you know, I'm really proud of the books because I think that they add a lot of value. I think people can get those books and really, you know, have some enjoyment and have something that they. That's not available anywhere else.

Yeah. You have, I think, made a big contribution just to history, you know, in the history of music, the history of rock and roll music, the history of. Of, you know, drumming and the hit. You know, it's also. Those are also, I think, very emblematic of the culture and the times of the time periods that the. That the book covers. And I also have to say. So you have this. I mean, the photography, just the quality of the photography. Absolutely. Underline, exclamation mark is excellent. The way that some of the drum kits were shot, the angles and stuff are just inspired. I mean, just brilliant. And then you go to read the history. And it made me probably like, I don't know, five occasions or more, you know, like go online and want to hear that concert, see if I could look it up or if it was an artist I wasn't familiar with. But it just, you know, was so intriguing to hear their backstory, you know, like I. I was not familiar with the. With Zappa's Black Page, you know, until your book. And it was sort of like, holy cow. So.

So anyway, isn't that a fun story?

Yes.

I mean, of all the things for you to picked out,

share that one.

That's. Well, that story is so. I mean, in the drumming world, if you walked up to a drummer and you said, hey, have you ever tried to play the Black Page? You would literally sound like you really knew what you were talking about as a drummer. Like, it's that famous and iconic. Frank Zappa wrote a piece of music for Terry Bozio, his drummer at that time, who's a legendary iconic drummer. And his kit is in the book,

one of his Kids 2012 reunion tour, which is insane. Yeah, that is an insane set.

I think it's the biggest kit in the book.

Yeah.

And so at that time, when Zappa wrote the Black Page for him, he wasn't playing a kick quite that big, but nonetheless he always played very large drum kit. And so Zappa wrote this piece of music where when you think of musical notes, they're black notes on a white line music paper. Right. Music notation paper. And he wrote it and he put so many notes on the page that it almost looked like all black because there were so many notes. So he called it the Black Page. And it was really hard to play. It was like this really. It was meant to be this incredible challenge, like, can you play this piece of music? It was like that was the goal that Zappa had in mind. And. And of course then it became this, you know, really famous piece that Bozio could play and other drummers after Terry Bozio that joined Zappa had to play. And it's really famous. They even have a snare drum that came out from DW that has some of the Black Page notes on. And it's a Black Page Terry Bozio tribute snare drum. Like that's how famous the Black Pages, it's so cool. Well, that's a good one.

I have to say my favorite. So besides Terry's is Carl Palmer stainless kits. Just beautiful. And of course Neil pert's Rush, our R30 tour kit. So do you. Is it Hard. It's like picking a child. Do you have favorites that you, you like or.

Well, the Carl Palmer stainless steel kit, which is on the COVID of course. And cut. And in the book, that's the, that's the winner for me because that was the kit that inspired me. And the short version of a, of a long story is that that drum kit. I saw that drum kit on the back of an ELP record, which Carl used the stainless steel kit from about 73 to 79, which was the heyday of Emerson, Lake and Palmer. They were playing stadiums, you know, they were world famous. And I'm listening to Carl's drumming, which I was, he was my drum hero as I was growing up. And we're going back to when I was 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, you know, right through high school, he was my drum hero. And there, remember, there's no Internet, there's no email, there's magazines and four stations on tv. And if you happen to get lucky enough to see an artist on television, that was amazing and pretty rare.

Yeah.

And then the magazines you would buy and then the LPs themselves. Once in a while the LPs would have a picture that you could actually glean some insight like, oh, what are they playing? Well, one of them are still Lincoln Palmer Records, live. Welcome back, my friends. The back covers is the live stage and there's the kit. And I was just, I listened to it on the record, I saw the kit and it just became like this obsession. Like, oh, this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. So as the years go on, Carl Palmer ELP break up. Carl Palmer is going to sell the drum kit and he and Ringo Starr ends up buying it. He's going to go to auction, found out about it, asked him to take it off the auction block and he sold him direct. And as this is going on, I'm seeing pictures in, in Cream magazine and Circus magazine and on the. And in a couple other ELP records. And I'm telling my parents, I gotta have this drum kit. And they're like, David, we can barely afford to pay attention. And here you are, this world famous rock star in the uk, right? We had never been to London, we only knew it from the Beatles and whatever. And it was like, this world famous rock star is, you're gonna buy a drum kit that costs more than everything we own, including our house. You know, it's nice to dream, David. Just keep dreaming.

It's.

Dreaming's not a bad thing. But, you know, trying to put a little Reality into it once in a while. And so then Ringo buys the kit, as I'm describing the story. And then they're like, oh, and now the richest drummer in the world, drum kits. He's not just a world famous rock star anymore, he's the wealthiest drummer in the world. And so, yeah, you're really gonna have a shot at that kid now. So the years went on. I ended up working with Ringo, as you mentioned in the credit scroll at the beginning. And, and I was. When I got inside his camp, his inner circle, and I was building studios for him and doing some things, I inquired if I could buy the kit. At that time, I didn't think I could afford it, but I thought maybe just I was. I had no idea how much it was, was worth or what it was gonna go for, but I just had to ask. I couldn't believe, like, here I am with Ring, and everybody else around me was like, you know, oh my God, get some great Beatles stories, get pictures, get this, get that. I just wanted to know, where's that drum kit?

Right.

And so, and so he, of course he wouldn't sell it. And so I went on working with him and then I finished my project with him and then, you know, I kept going. And in 2015, he has an auction. Ringo Starr and his wife Barbara have an auction of all kinds of belongings of theirs, including his Ed Sullivan Ringo Beatles kit, which sold for over $2 million. Wow. And in that, he puts the Carl Palmer drum kit. And I can't believe it. And so I just thought to myself, you know, I'm gonna do everything I can to buy that kit. And I prayed like I pray every day, but, but I think I was praying 15 times a day because what I was praying for was that some really wealthy person was not gonna come in and bid because if Jim Ursay, the owner of the Colts, who's a multi billionaire, who bought the Ringo Beatles kit, the Ed Sullivan kit we're talking about, for over 2 million, if he jumps in, then I'm done. Right, Right. So I'm just praying that, that this is like the lightweight part of the auction. And so I got really lucky and got the kit.

No kidding.

My parents are looking down going, I don't. David, you've done some remarkable things, but I don't know how you pulled this one off.

Wow, that's. That is a fantastic story. Thank you. So I also, you know, so, I mean, you, you know, the, the, the details, the esoterica and, and a variety of, you know, obviously even like the technical and, and engineering aspects of drum kits. But I also have to say for the, the, the newbies like me, that right off the bat in the book, you explain what makes up a drum kit and you talk about that in the introduction, which I, you know, really appreciated and I really kind of like, like the help that it felt like it helped me have better appreciation, understanding. So. And I also loved. I have to just repeat it. He said if it wasn't for drums, we'd still be listening to chamber music. Which I thought that's really a good point, you know, so what a difference a drum makes.

So, yeah, that's my opinion anyway.

I think that's very true. So now you also. I hope I'm not misspeaking or anything, but. So you also have a museum that's kind of like an invitation only to be able to see the kits that you own that that's in your drum collection?

Well, yes, as part of. So Frangioni foundation is a nonprofit that I started where I really wanted to give something back and I wanted to see. I wanted to take everything I've learned because now remember, you know, I'm over 50 years old and I've learned almost every year of my life. And I think since two. I really think since the cancer from then on, I've just been learning even when I didn't realize I was learning. Just going through traumas. When you finally come out the other side and you can reflect and you can dissect and you learn and learn and learn and grow. So I think that I'm able now to put a curriculum together and actually take what I've learned and put it in a. In a format that can help people and help them very quickly. And now they don't have to go down all the wrong roads and all the bumpy roads as much as I had to, because I figured some of these things out for them and now I'm presenting them in a way that's much more efficient and very inspiring. So I started Frangioni foundation to deliver that and in the process put together this drum museum, which is a private museum and the foundation's nonprofit 501, but it is private foundation. And you know, we're changing people's lives, we're changing kids lives, and we're just getting started. So hopefully I'll be able to get some really good donors to come in and keep the thing alive. Because the fact is that I've been running it through my own work and give back for over four years. And it's really not sustainable by just me at the level that I want to do. Good. So that's the next phase right now is finding some really generous, inspired donors who can help us really fulfill the mission.

That's great. Well, hopefully maybe some listeners will be able to connect up and do some help with that. So. And is it so like, like, do kids get to come in and play on some of the, the, those drums or, or celebrity?

Absolutely not. Not only come in and play, but they come in and play and the drummer comes with them in a lot of cases. So we'll have, you know, we have the drummer from Styx, Todd Sucherman, very famous drummer, an amazing friend and drummer. And he'll come in, do the masterclass. Drummer from Kiss, drummer from Black Sabbath, drummer, you know, B52's drummer, Ariana Grande's drummer was in. You know, we've had so many amazing drummers come by. Rascal Flats, Jim Riley, and just great drummers come in. And they love the museum and they love what we're doing and they love sharing their knowledge and experience. So it really is unique and great in a meaningful way. And the whole goal is to, let's, let's inspire the next generation in a really healthy way. Let's do it in a way that it's bigger than any of us and it outlives us. Because this is something that can go past my lifetime, your lifetime, the donor's lifetime, where it lasts forever. These drums are not going anywhere as long as we preserve them. The idea of inspiring young kids to, to pursue the drums in whatever capacity they want. They're not all going to be professional drummers, but drumming will have a positive impact on their life. This can go on forever.

That's great. So, so what are you playing these days? What's on top, what's on bottom?

You mean drum heads?

Mm.

I usually Remo either clear or Coded Ambassadors. My personal drum kit is Yamaha Phoenix Kit. I love the sound of that drum kit. I have way too many snare drums. Hopefully I'll live long enough to play them. You know, I think snare drums, it's a healthy outlet. I keep telling myself irregular level. And it's, you know, it's, it's just the greatest thing to play the drums and to practice and learn. I've got this amazing drum teacher. He's a world famous teacher. This isn't any kind of breaking news that I think he's amazing and world renowned. His name's Dom Femularo and Dom Femularo is Considered the best teacher of drumming. He's world famous, as he should be. And he is. It's like when I studied in my teens, I sought out the best teachers I could anywhere in the world. And I, and thankfully, living in Boston, I was close to New York and I had a drummer named Alan Dawson who lived in the Boston area, and another drummer named Joe Morello who lived in New Jersey. And they were two of the most, the most renowned drummers. They play with Dave Brubeck and Joe Morello played on Take Five, which was, you know, one of the first top number one songs of a jazz artist. You know, iconic, iconic music that these drummers played on. But they also were just as amazing as teachers. And their day, their teaching was the foundation for so many great drummers. So many drum. Tony Williams studied with Alan Dawson and Danny Gottlieb and Dave Weckel studied with Joe Morello and Dom Femularo studied with Joe Morell. And he took, he took that. Joe's passed away, right? And he took what Joe taught and he took other iconic drummers like Jim Chapin and Ted Reed and Billy Gladstone, all of these techniques. And he has put together a way to learn from them that it's as if you're back studying with those drummers again. And that's the foundation of playing like a Buddy Rich or a Neil Peart or, you know, Carl Palmer, these incredible drummers that, you know, it's just really exciting. So when I, when I look at the challenges of learning that and then applying it to the creative ideas that we each have at our instrument, you know, in this case, behind a drum kit or at a snare drum or whatever instrument you play, it's just, you know, just amazing. There's nothing like it.

That's right. Well, David, gosh, thanks. Thank you so much for sharing your intelligence and your talent through the world through your technological innovation and your music and your creativity, I feel like those kinds of aspects just, you know, we're all made better because of it. So just really a sincere tip of the hat. I appreciate the fact of you wanting to share these things and not just the motivation to do it, but the follow through and having done it so well. Again, I, I appreciate the toil that putting out a book can be, but I can't imagine the resource that you've done with both Icon and with Crash. It just really, they in and of themselves are works of art. So for people interested.

Thank you.

You bet. For people interested in learning more about you and your work and your books or that might have a project that you could do end to end on that sort of thing. What are the best places to reach out and connect with you? You?

Well davidjfrangioni.com avidfrangioni are my socials and of course audio-one.com is the website all spelled out O N E. And yeah, that's that's where you'll find what I'm up to.

Awesome. Good. We'll put all that in the show notes and we'll probably throw in a couple of YouTube videos and stuff too as well. So David, thanks so much for your time, your generosity, and for being on the show today. It was really a blast.

Well, thank you. It's a great honor to be here and thank you everyone for listening and thank you for the great interview.

Living a Life in Full is a production of Stout Media, a subsidiary of Gordian Knot, LLC. Assistant Gracie Wong Music Dan O' Brien Executive Producer and Host, Dr. Chris Stout to learn more, stop by our website at lifeinfull for show notes and please recommend us to your friends and subscribe on your favorite platform. And as for the obligatory disclaimer, this podcast is for general information uses only and does not constitute the practice of psychology, medicine, nutrition or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical or psychological advice. No doctor patient relationship is formed. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I take conflicts of interest seriously. For all of my disclosures as well as show notes, please see livingalifeinfull.org podcast and my LinkedIn profile. Thanks and until next time,