EP 190 WTH?!?: Mind-Body Mastery: Harnessing Movement, Breath, and Sound with Jeffrey Williams

Foreign.

Welcome back everybody. Dr. Greg Eckel. This is what the health and today's topic is Mind body mastery, sculpting your brain naturally with movement, breath and sound. And I've brought on Jeffrey Williams who has had a two over a two decade span as a transformation artist deeply immersed in unraveling the human body's potential through intensive study of traditional and modern wellness systems worldwide. He's become a guide for diverse individuals employing a spectrum of high impact teachings and bodywork, sound, breath values and movement. Jeffrey's coaching and training programs such as the Autonomic Nervous System Reset empower other practitioners and individual vigils alike to seize control of their health journey, fostering vitality and a life lived to its fullest potential. I am excited for today's talk. Welcome aboard, Jeffrey.

Thanks Greg. This is great to be here. That's a great intro. I appreciate that.

Indeed, indeed.

To our conversation.

Yeah, likewise. And I love this. Mind body mastery and sculpting your brain naturally with movement, breath and sound. I'm wondering, have there been pivotal moments in your lifetime that brought these things together for you and kind of synthesized your holistic approach?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean one, I'm just a huge fan of the human body, the human brain, that it's an incredible, incredible organism that has so much potential and we have so much governance over it. And I really, my path really was born out of seeing how many people weren't connected to this incredible innate intelligence that's inside their bodies. For me, back I began, I got introduced to some plant medicine when I was about 14, 15 years old and that really changed my perspective on, whoa, what are humans really about and how are we potentially limited by the conditioning and the culture that we live in. But to make a long story short, ended up in a really deep conversation unexpected about these things with my dad when I was 19 and he was dropping me off at the train station to go back to school and the train was late and he asked me about these things and I was thinking, oh no, what's going to happen 19 and ended up having an incredible conversation for about five hours that explored the possibilities of, you know, what plant medicines and maybe, you know, sort of extra sensory experiences and beyond our normal perception. That train ride ended up, I had a kind of a trancy meditation on that thing on that train ride back to Eugene, Oregon where I was going to school at University of Oregon. And I kind of was coming out of that state and it was like voices were talking to me and they said everybody, every, everything you've experienced through psychedelics is available to every human being through the most basic human functions. And as soon as I heard that what. And the volume goes down and like, well, what was that? So I started mapping out, well, what are the most basic human functions and some of those things you just mentioned. So I got this. I ended up mapping. I'm a maps and models guy. And I created this map. In the middle was like presence, right? Is like awareness and attention. But then there was what's essential, right, Is movement, breath, sound, rest, nourish and hydrate. Those were kind of this map that first emerged. And I just said, well, I got to look into everything I can about these things. And it kind of acted as a magnet. I don't know if you know your audience or you're familiar with when you come in contact with something from within and you turn it on, you choose it, you decide to step into it, that you become like magnetron. And it's like teachers and experiences just started coming out of the woodwork. And as a 19 year old, it changed my life and opened me up to an education beyond the education I was going and paying for. I was finding teachers and doing everything I could to explore the potentials of those things, especially movement, breath and sound and how those could impact our health, our quality of life on every level.

Wow, that is, that is a young age for plant medicine experiences. And then I definitely know what you're talking about with that opening up to allowing the things to come to you. It's really, it's quite magical. And I actually invite everybody, if you haven't experienced that, to get curious and run some experiments for your yourself to see what exactly Jeffrey is talking about there, you know, there is this burgeoning and bubbling movement right now of returning back to self, that listening to the inner guidance, the inner wisdom, the heart as a multidimensional portal is really what I keep coming to. And you know, I've been speaking into the future of medicine is frequency, sound and light. And you know, the ancients had this technology and really pass this information on to us in such a beautiful way with resonance and, and tones of the body and the breath work. So the. These aspects of tuning the miraculous body that we're walking around in, that's what I was really excited to get into with you. And so we're right into it. So what, how do you synthesize this because you, you've kind of put together some trainings and teachings for folks.

Yeah, I mean, I think right out the gate, one of the Things we have to start with to kind of better understand how to give ourselves the greatest opportunity to make an impact on our own health and vitality is to understand the brain and stress. Because that's one of, I see it as the largest inhibitor, maybe humanity's greatest problem currently is that we have this awesome thing called a stress response, which some people call fight or flight. And that's totally awesome for when we actually need to survive, when we're facing imminent danger. So it's a built in aspect of our primitive brain. And when we go into that, the brain redirects blood flow, glucose and oxygen to the limb so that we can either get the heck out of dodge or fight whatever enemy or even freeze and play dead and protect ourselves. And that's super useful in those hunter gatherer type situations that we were in for ever before we got into this current modern circumstance. So when that happens, brain always lateralizes into one hemisphere and drops back into the limbic system, the hind brain. And we start to operate and perceive through the amygdala. And when we do that, there's a cascade in our physiology that is really inhibitive of us staying vital and getting into the growth, repair, rest and digest part of our brain, the parasympathetic half of that autonomic nervous system. So most people, and even when you ask most people, are you stressed? A lot of them say yes, but a lot of them think no, I'm fine. But stress isn't just in the mind. Stress is something that's measurably in the body. So we have a simple test that can show you which hemisphere you're lateralized in and how the blood and glucose and oxygen are going to limbs rather than vital organs. And all the things we need to do to keep up with the day to day life. Everything we do by day creates acidic waste and is continuously needing to be cleaned out. At night there's kind of like the brain waves are supposed to speed up during the day because we're acting and reacting and responding to the outer world and that's normal. But at night those brain waves are supposed to slow down and metabolic processes speed up. So there's this natural teeter totter that's supposed to happen with us human beings. The biggest problem that I see is that the modern stressors are triggering that primitive stress response. But primitive stress has a clear beginning and a clear ending. There's the tiger, I'm out, it's gone. Okay, or I didn't make it right. It's a real clear beginning. Clear ending. Modern stress has many beginnings with no clear ending, right? So most people, I'm saying 95 to 98% of people are chronically in that part of their brain. So they're perceiving the world through a predator, prey lens, you know, fight or flight dynamics. And that's not our human capacity. So one, we want to tap into the potential of ourselves as a human being. We also have to tap into that human level of function in our brain and nervous systems. So that's the beginning is to learn that we need to do something to bring us out of that. How do we give ourselves the everything is okay signal? A lot of what I've done is look at, well, what's happening in the body and the mind, in the physiology of someone who's in stress. And, and then how do we help them initiate a bridge back into balance? Because again, that lateralization of the brain is always mirrored in the body. So you can see it as a distortion in the musculoskeletal system. And sort of response or power is distributed typically to one side to protect the other side's being turned off. So someone who is out of balance, you'll see a toggling or like a zigzag down their spine where you've got excessively tense muscles opposed by excessively weak muscles and vice versa, all the way down their spine. But you'll have one side that's more tense to begin with. And the longer they're in it, the more those processes build up. So there's waste and toxins and all sorts of the environment in the body. The terrain literally becomes less and less habitable, habitable for those good things. And we get more and more dysbiotic growth, mold and fungus in the system. So that's the beginning.

That's the beginning. How does someone, I mean you, you mentioned the word presence and you know, actually this morning I was just training and teaching my staff that they are the field. And to, to wake up and ask yourself, you know, like, what am I emitting? Like, do you have techniques for people to become aware of what actually is running in their body? I mean, I know you said you had a test to, to find out what, where's the lateralization? But is there a self awareness component on a step towards this journey with you?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean one, because of that, the stress state being constrictive and contractive in nature, one of the first things we can do is just observe, right? Like I call it omnosis, observing the obvious of what's going on right now in my body, well, how am I breathing? And if my mind is running at all, it's most likely that I'm stressed and I'm constricted in my body. So if you think about the brain and the nervous system, it's like we have. It's a system that works above, down, inside out. So it comes from the top, moves down the middle, and then moves out. So one of the quickest ways to kind of bring yourself into the present. And it's funny you said that, because I call all these techniques portals into the present. How do I create a portal back into the present? Because what a stress state is, is literally I'm still in response or in reaction to something that's already happened, right? So it's limiting my ability to be present now. So one of the first things to do is just decide, okay, if I want to get present one, I'm going to notice where my breath is at, and then I'm going to start to elongate that breath and let it become. Come in and out of the body with more relaxed, with more ease. And then along that path that the brain works through the spinal column, I've got these ancient systems, right? Whether it's Taoism or the yogic Vedic systems or out of Egypt, even the shamanic systems, they all speak to these gates or bandas, locks, whatever you want to call them in the body. And one of the quickest ways to get more present is to relax your center line because the brain is trying to conduct the present moment through you. You're a conductor of the present moment. And when you're constricted, and that constriction could be. People walk around tightening their rectum all day long, or pulling their genitals in or tightening their belly and constricting their chest or clenching their teeth. All of those are places that these ancient systems point to as those are sphincters. But they're also places where we can lock ourselves out of the present. Because if the present moment is trying to be conducted through your nervous system and it meets a resistance, what happens to that energy is it gets pushed out. So presence is something that's happening vertically through you. And when you go out into the horizontal, that's past, future. So it's more likely to turn on the mind into, oh, it's coming. The anxiety of what's coming, or the regret and the depression of what happened. Right. Whatever those cycles are for people, everyone's different. But that could be one of the simplest ways to create a portal into the present is literally change your breath and relax your body, especially along the center line. And if you're lacking in body awareness, I recommend starting by actually tightening everything and then relaxing it so that you. Oh, well, I don't know if I'm tightening. And some people realize when they tighten it and then they relax, oh, wow, I'm, I'm relaxed 50% more than I was. And so I was tightening. I just didn't know it.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that is great. So many people like you had mentioned the answer of fine. You know, in my field, fine means fucked up, insecure, neurotic and excitable. And so it is, you know, it is a really, it's a kind of a pat answer. Oh, I'm fine. Well, well, you know, in my mind, that's what I hear every time somebody says that. It's like, okay, well that isn't a place to be. And so many of us are not walking around in that present moment because of the past or future concerns. And that, you know, you look at all of these ancient texts and they're all talking about all we have is now. And it's, how do we get in? You know, people walking around in pain with trauma, all of these unresolved components. And know one of the definitions of disease that I have is separation from source. And when I, you know, saw kind of your teachings and what you're educating people about, it's really about bringing them in touch with their innate intelligence and gaining that understanding. You know, I actually just told a 22 year old yesterday, like, we don't, none of us out here have the answers for you. They're all in you. It's our deep presence listening to you. And, and I'm asking, you know, like, what kind of transformation do you want? And he's saying, I don't know, like, so it's, you know, then planting seeds for people of like, well, what could it be? I'm wondering how, how you work with folks that way.

Well, I mean, you, you already nailed like my number one tenet in working with people because I don't diagnose, I don't try to heal, treat or cure. It's. The first tenet is to lead people back to themselves. Right? Because the, whether you want to call it the victim consciousness or the dreaded drama triangle, whatever it is, it's perfectly reflective of the hindbrain of how the limbic system and the amygdala work. It's like I'm either, I mean, I'm a victim and I can oscillate between victim, perpetrator and hero rescuer, you know, and when I'm not one, I'm the other. And same with the people in my life. So that is hugely limiting. And to lead someone back to themselves is like, well, you're here one. You've made an amazing choice to step in and actually take action or at least show up on your own behalf, right? And from there it's helping them own that they have been co creator all along. They've been self authoring whatever it is, whatever the circumstance or situation that they're in. And as we all know, I mean really, it's basic logic that if you recognize that you created or you wrote yourself into the story the way you wrote it, you also have the pen in your hand. So you can actually write yourself into a new circumstance or new context. And it's always about content in context. And so no matter what the content is in your life, if you put that same content into a different context, it has completely different meaning. And one of the most important things to understand about our brain and our nervous system is, is that it is a. Each of us is. Our brains and nervous systems are in a sense a values fulfilling seeking device. Meaning that each of us has a unique set of values. Not typically the platitudes and things you hear about values being, but each of us actually has a unique set of aligned actions that is a result of our developmental process. So that when we were especially 0 to 7 and then 7 to 14, those conditions, whatever we perceive to be void, missing, lacking or violating, creates a natural impulse to fulfill our lives because we're innately whole. So we're all really whole human beings. We're the full spectrum. We're angry and sad and we're generous and happy and we're all the things. And it's important for us to own that in different contexts, those different things, feelings, those different traits, actions or inactions will show up and that's okay. And that we can accept ourselves and each other for being human. But to understand that what it is that inspires us, that we care about, that we love and that fulfill us, is the key to our vitality. And it's the key to, I call it the Rosetta Stone of making meaning. If I'm going to make meaning out of the situations and circumstances I'm in, I have to know what I care about most. I have to know where. What it is that inspires me and fulfills me, that I love so much that I'm willing To rearrange my life, time and space and my resources to continue to do it. Because that's the thing that lights me up. So that's the key to my brain coming into greater balance and congruence and my body following. So to get access to the resources inside myself, including my meaning making capacity, I have to know what I care about first. Does that make sense?

It does, it does. And that context and.

Content.

Yeah, content. Will you explore that a little more?

Absolutely, yeah. So if you take for instance, like a situation that you're in in the current moment, say something seems really, really challenging, like a breakup, okay? And in that breakup, you can only in the context of I'm breaking up, I can't believe this is happening to me. You can list probably paragraphs of downsides to that situation, right? And then what if, you know, six months later you're, you run into some. You, you end up in a relationship that's so incredibly aligned and balanced and there's equal exchange and all those things. And you look back and in 2020 hindsight, you're like, wow, look at all the upsides to that breakup. Wow, it gave me the freedom to be here. I wouldn't have been there. You can ask yourself the questions and you can equilibrate your perceptions of the situation. But if I am in a victim context, if I'm seeing the world through the lens of the victimhood, and there's a huge victimhood culture challenge in our world today, and that victimhood, totally a product of our hindbrain. So each level of our brain has a corresponding context in which it can perceive the world. And that amygdala perceives things typically in this predator prey game. So it's trying to get away from pain and towards pleasure, which has its upsides, right? But it also has its massive limitations. If you're here to fulfill yourself or make a difference in the world, those two dynamics are pretty limiting. So the context in which you see a situation is really important because if I am in a victimhood consciousness, no matter what happens to me, I'm going to see how, oh, well, I blame and complain and shame and all those other things because I'm in this game. Whereas if I'm in an empowerment dynamic or a growth mindset, I'm going to put the same content and put it into a different frame. And in that different frame, just a context, I'm going to go, wow, how is this challenge that's occurring actually supporting me in fulfilling my next levels of values or coming into a greater Level of health or coming into a greater level of alignment or coming into better relationships. Right. It's about the kind of questions you ask. And the quality of your life is really a product of, of the quality of the questions you ask yourself.

Yeah, that, you know, that component is such a biggie where you don't get into the shame, blame or guilt. When you start feeling that, or I call it grist for the mill is then, you know, you're, you're off the trail. Like you want to get back into that creator component and maybe it's, you know, responsibility for your actions and for what's going on. And so I'm wondering, so how do you tie then movement and breath and sound into the embodiment, into that central core of awareness for folks?

That's a great question. I mean, 1. Movement is the fastest way to sculpt our brain since our bodies are literally reciprocal reflections of what's happening in the brain. Meaning, like if I'm lateralized to one side in the brain and back in the brain, I'm going to see a lateralization in the body as well. Well, so one of the things to do, so movement's the fastest way to sculpt the brain. And if you do rhythmic movement that crosses your midline, you can sculpt a whole brain. So the way I teach movement is one just to quickly tie back in the metaphor of presence is happening through you vertically. And this is the way your brain nervous system set up. The movement systems that I utilize are about building a conduit, building the most powerful spine and connective tissue to your center that is possible so that you have greater poise to stay present. Right. Like literally your ability to stay present. Yes, it's partly your mind, but if you don't have the framework, like the hardware to hold yourself in presence, you're going to just continue to get blown out. Whether that's in your own life situations or if you're a professional trying to help others, you won't be able to have that ability to stay stably in your center. And so the systems I utilize are and created are about building up that capacity to stay centered. So since the left hemisphere of the brain controls the right side of the body and the right hemisphere controls the left, when I take my limbs, for instance, and I cross my midline repeatedly in motions, I'm forcing connection between the two hemispheres across the corpus callosum. So there's this conductivity that's generated and it's kind of like self diagnostic check in, like One hemisphere is like, hey, what's going on? Oh, hey, this is what's going on. And they start to exchange information. And what we see is that when that rhythmic movement that crosses the midline is generated for a little bit because you're choosing to do it, that the brain shifts too. So we come out of the beta, higher frequency, active, outer reactive brainwave state and in the hindbrain and it slowly shifts into the neocortex and the prefrontal cortex. We see blood flow, glucose and oxygen go to those in your brain. Brainwaves slow down into alpha and theta. So alpha is to me is like this wakeful contentedness, meaning like I'm aware, I'm alert, but I'm centered and ready. I can speed up my brain waves if I need to respond to something, but I can slow down if that's appropriate to rest and relax. Whereas when you're stuck in a beta, that stress state, out of reactive, it's hard to get the brain to go, okay, I can let go, I can let go. Now I can really let go. Right. So the movement systems are about building that powerful conduit for your body to actually stay more present. And then of course there's breath components because our breathing, there's a, like I say, for every state that we can be in, there's a breath for that. Yeah, like, you know, it's kind of like I talk about how our, the breathing system is so cool because one is, it's autonomic, kind of like digestion. You don't have to think about it and you'll breathe it probably 20, 30,000 times.

We recommend don't stop.

Yeah, exactly. Huge, huge suggestion for all of you. Don't stop unless you're intentionally stopping for a reason. After you've maybe hyper oxygenated yourself, for instance. But you know, if you watch somebody, and I've got four kids, so I love kids as teachers because they're so raw, right. They're just real. So watch a kid get angry. And you watch if you pay attention to the way they're breathing, right. There's a breath for anger. If they're really upset and sad, there's a breath for that. If they're really hurt, there's a breath for that. And to lead into the frequency part, there's almost always a sound to that too. Right. If you listen to kids fall down and they scream or they ah, they let it out and you can see the breath and the sound for that. So one of our big challenges is that we're Conditioned to suppress what's actually going on in our bodies, right. And override it because man up or stay quiet or don't cry or whatever it might be. And all of those things that we're told, the conditioning and the conforming to the culture that we live in can limit our ability to state change at will or to self govern. So movement and breath and sound are all key components because they're all really shaping the context in which we experience our life. And that context, like we said before, is everything it's going to frame. It's like changing the station, right? It's like, well, which context would I like to view this through? I personally rather than just like when I'm a stressed person like the predator prey games. Another way to look at that is that they're seeking support. You know, they want support and they don't want challenge. When we come into our human level of function, we embrace support and challenge equally because we know that challenge is our growth edge and support is how we often get what we need to get through the challenges so that we can continue to grow and evolve and adapt to life.

Yeah, well put, well put. That's lovely. You know, I want to return to this component that you came to as a 19 year old or the, the statement that was we can access these states in just the normal way of being human. And I am a full on proponent of that. And I, I do think we haven't been taught the, the true power of being human and what we're actually capable of. I wonder if I just say that to you, where, where do you go with that?

Well, I love that. I mean it's been my mission now. 26 years of looking into this, experimenting on myself, my friends and I opened a center 20 years ago and been doing this with over 10,000 people. And what I think is so important to understand is that when we choose to engage our bodies, ourselves in one of these things, whether it's movement or breath or sound, for instance, we'll use those three and in combination like a stack, you can have profound experiences. Right. Like most people think, well, I breathe all day. What's so important about breathing? Breathe consciously for an hour and you'll rethink that statement. Because you, once you start to breathe in a continuous fashion and most people just heads up, you won't be able to do this without a guide at first because you'll take 10 breaths and your mind's like, oh, what's for lunch today? You know, it's like the mind is like the Patterning is like, wait, we have. We have to understand that our own beliefs, our own mental cognitive patterns have a grip on our lives. And they're not us truly. Who we are is not that. And yet they have a solid grip on it. So when you start to breathe, for instance, and you start to pull life force in, right? Because you mentioned light and frequency. So most people think of breath as just air. One of my first teachers would. We'd have us breathe for a while, like say 30 minutes, just breathing, breathing, breathing. And now he'd say, okay, now breathe, but don't move any air. And we're like, what? Same motion. So like pull in from the field and become aware of the other aspects of breath. The breath is. There's energy, there's light and frequency in the air, right? There's. There's electrons. Like, we're all. We wouldn't be animate without the electrons and ions that. That help us generate to be the alkaline wet cell batteries that we are so that we have charge, that we have enough life force energy to continue to neutralize what isn't for us, like toxins and oxidation, all those sort of things. But when you breathe like this and this particular thing, we could do a little experiment with it if you want. But when you start to breathe that you'll notice like, whoa, I'm not even really moving much air, if any. And I feel I'm pulling in on the field and I'm letting go. And you know, it's like prana and apana was what the Vedic traditions called it. And so prana is like the new life force coming in and upon it is the used life force going out. And it's a beautiful, like yin yang, interdependent relationship. And most diseases in some way or another are an imbalance between those two. So, meaning, like I'm just inhaling, but I'm not exhaling very much. So like someone who's in a panic or anxiety, they keep taking in more. Right? Because inhale is a reflection or representation of you being able to take in what is. Or what you're projecting is. And exhale is our capacity and ability to let go of what was. And so when we. The dis. Ease is like it can be in. Out of balance and you can see it in someone's state.

Yeah, yeah.

So true. That.

That whole concept of the body battery and charging up the body battery and the. That's a great concept. And I think we're going to hear more and more about that. And thanks in part to your work and what you've been doing for a quarter of a century plus. And I'm seeing this bubble up through our culture quite a bit because of, you know, just the complete nutter madness of the illusion outside of us. And it's really, you know, here why, why we do this show is to bring this right to you viewers and listeners so that you have the tools, you have the access, you can, you know, we're going to put Jeffrey's contact information. He's got a free gift for everybody on a. On a course and a training. Maybe you want to talk about that here?

Yeah, I would love to. So what that if free courses? If you've been picking up on some of the things I've been saying and you're. You want to know more about your brain, your nervous system, how stress might be in impacting your quality of life, this is for you. And it's not only informative, but it's practical. So there's some experiential movement stuff at the end that you'll be able to take into your daily life. What I focus on is the most is creating the most accessible ways in meaning things that don't require a special space or special equipment or garb, but you can do it anywhere and everywhere and that your body is the key to it and that you'll be able to just do a few minutes a day even and get results. So we're. This particular one introduces some of those movements that cross the midline. So I give a little workshop on that. And those are easy takeaways, super applicable. I do these movements when I fill up my car at the fuel station, right? Because I'm just like, what do I do for three minutes? It's like use, use those gaps, right? And in our modern day, it's like, I heard you on another podcast talk about the importance of just being in nature, right? And yeah, it's so important, everybody, like, we are of nature. We're not separate, right? So getting outside is medicine for us. Our bodies remember, our brain waves slowed down, muscles relax like everything comes back in line. And we didn't talk much about. And I want to just quickly touch in on it. Is sound, yes. Is that frequency? Your voice is medicine. Your voice is an opera, offers you an opportunity to let go of things that you're holding. And one of my favorite teachers is Wilhelm Reich. I got to learn through one of his students. And Wilhelm Reich had this idea of no talk therapy and he kind of co opted one of Einstein's statements that you can't solve a problem on the level it was created. And so he's like, most of our problems are because of the way we've been thinking. So how are we going to go and talking? Are we going to go sit in a therapy office and talk about our problems? We probably won't solve them. But he said if we can get into our bodies and move and breathe and sound, we can liberate ourselves from so much of the psychosomatic armoring and the trauma and all the things that we're holding. But your voice is an incredible gift and it's unique to you. And in the frequency of your voice is contained your whole experience. So there's nothing more. Back to that idea that I got when I was 19. I have found nothing more psychoactive than the human voice, especially when primed with the right movement to prepare the body, the right breath to energize. And then using frequency, people have visions, they transcend their body, they travel through the cosmos, they remember so much. And so the voice is just this incredibly potent gift that we all have. And if you like, one of the things I would recommend with the voice is just start doing long and let the body relax and fall into those sounds. Like, I do it with my kids a lot at bedtime and things like that because it's like they're wound up. And how do you shift if you're wound up or you're in your head, start using your voice with no words, just the primordial voice. Like think about a baby that cries or makes sound. And we figure out what they want, what they mean. Right? There's meaning in it. We don't need them to have words. And so you have that voice and that voice, even if no one's listening, everything's listening. And it can communicate what needs to be expressed. And it. If you have an intention, you can also, if you relaxed and you come clearly into a right state, you can voice your intention without words. And those frequencies are very powerful and they will reveal so much to you when you do.

Oh, I love that. Jeffrey Williams, thank you so much for coming on the show today. You all, if you got something out of this, give us a thumbs up, get out there, give us a five star and let people know what you're taking from today's show. If it's the sound, letting your voice ring and falling into those sounds, that's just sage advice. Thank you all. We wouldn't be doing it without you. See you next time.

Thank you. Bye.