121: Plant Based Simplicity and Building a Healthier Relationship With Food with Healthy Emmie

Well, welcome back to the keeping your Breast podcast with Dr. Jen. I am your host, Dr. Jen Simmons. And this is where we are bringing smart, evidence based conversations to women who want to take control of their breast health and their whole body wellness. Today, I am thrilled to sit down with someone who has transformed the way thousands of women think about food, about weight, about self care. This is healthy me. So. She is also known as Emmy Keefe. Emmy is a leading voice in plant based nutrition and behavioral change. She helps women create a healthy relationship with food without restriction, deprivation or guilt, which we all suffer from. If you've ever struggled with emotional eating, post treatment, weight gain, food confusion, or that constant feeling of I know what to do, but I'm not doing it. This, this episode is going to speak directly to your heart. Together we're going to unpack the real drivers of lasting change, the thing that everyone needs to get it done. The power of nutrient dense eating for women's health and how to build habits that support healing, energy and longevity. This is an honest, compassionate conversation that I know will empower you to rethink what's possible for your body and your life. Welcome, Emmy.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. You know, there's so much diet debate, right? What's the right thing, what's the wrong thing? And.

There'S a lot of orthodoxy in diet, like my way is the right way. And you know, I, I believe in bio individuality. I don't think that there's one right diet for everyone, but I do constantly come back to that place where I think everyone should be eating more plants. Like, no matter what you do, I think everyone should be eating more plants. So. And I know that you are of that mindset as well. So I'm just really excited to have you here and to start to dig into that because there are people on the other side of it who thinks that the plants are trying to kill us.

Isn't it crazy that we live in a world now where fruits and vegetables could possibly be unhealthy? How did we get here?

I know, I know. But, you know, unfortunately, I think most people miss the subtext and the fact that there is a lot of the narrative, the dialogue that is intentionally trying to sabotage us and tell us that things that are, I mean, how, how on earth could these things be bad for us? And yet the narrative is convincing people that things that are vital to life are bad for us. Right?

Gotta keep us so that we keep listening, keep buying products. It's a billion dollar billion with a B industry and confusion is what drives a lot of sales. And I think a lot of companies hate to see me coming because I simplify things and make people not confused anymore. And we'll buy a lot less products and programs.

Yeah, it doesn't hurt that you're beautiful and intelligent. Like I just look at you and you're just this little ray of sunshine. I love it.

Thank you.

So tell me, how did you get into this space?

My background actually is informal teaching. I was a teacher in a past life, so I've always had a passion for educating and helping break down very complex concepts into easy to understand formulas. I was a math teacher actually and what I loved about teaching was when the kids would say oh, oh my gosh, nobody has ever explained it like this to me before and now it actually makes sense. So I have this natural knack for teaching. But my passion for health and wellness was something that I always wanted to be my career and I really wanted to make something from that. I was an athlete growing up and just had an interest in healthy eating and longevity and staying as lively and youthful as possible. And while I was a teacher, I on the side was posting videos on YouTube. This is like 15 years ago I started doing this on YouTube about health and wellness. And seven years ago I decided that I wanted to make that my full time passion. So I went back to school, got certified in nutrition weight loss specialty and I was able to make that. My full time gig is helping people. So I have had a program that over 5,000 women have done in helping them master their relationship with food and find their body's ideal weight through a new food philosophy which is rooted in plant based nutrition.

Is this something that you struggled with yourself? Like why interest in this?

My interest comes from my parents journey. So when I started to eat a plant based diet, I was marathon training and in marathon training decided I wanted to lock in my nutrition and started to research and find the benefits of plant based whole food. Plant based eating. More fruits, more vegetables, more whole grains, more diversity in the diet, more colors and something more robust than what I was currently doing. I was 19 at the time, decided overnight that I was going to change my diet and I did and that was great and dandy. My parents had some health struggles of their own. My dad was obese, probably on the fast track to a heart attack and my mom had high cholesterol and I said to them, let's do this. You, you guys should Transition to a plant based diet. And it took convincing, but they did. That was about 10 years ago. And their health completely transformed. My dad went From, I think 2:40 was his highest weight and now he's in the 180s and he's maintained that for about 10 years. He is one of the truly one of the healthiest people I know. My mom's cholesterol is all back to normal. She had some menopause weight gain that she wanted to get off and she was able to do. And to see their lives transform. My dad literally is a different human being. To see them sort of get this new lease on life was so touching to me and made me realize that there's so many people that have parents or grandparents or children who they want to be around for a long time and they have the power to do that if they change their lifestyle and their relationship with food. So that had a major impact on me because I'm so close to my parents. And I literally got a new set of parents that I made it my mission to be able to help more families experience something that I experience, which is to have a healthy family that's going to be around for a long time.

Yeah, I mean, that's certainly a great reason to do it. Why do you think that?

Why do you think people struggle so much with diet? What do you think's happening there?

For many people, it's an addiction. Addiction is something I study very closely. And the food has been doctored up and tailored so that we're addicted to it. They spend so much money on scientists that will manufacture the food and make sure it is as palatable as possible. We release the maximum amount of dopamine in that sweet spot so that we stay addicted to the food. And it's, it's not people's fault that they're addicted to this food, but it is their responsibility to recognize it and find their way out of it. It's a really unfortunate reality of the modern food supply that it is designed to make you addicted, overweight and sick and keep buying these products. It's extraordinarily difficult to break free from. But with education and determination and accountability, it can be done. So I don't want people to think that they wanted this or it's their fault. Many people are victim to the big food industry. I'll say one more thing, that when big tobacco was broken down, all of the people that were in big tobacco went to big food and turned that into the next addictive industry.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we are very well trained. And I agree with you in that. So many people. And I don't think it's just. I think it's definitely the addiction part of it, but there's also a convenience part of it, too. And I think people don't realize that we are all just part of a social experiment and that we were convinced starting in the 1950s, that as women, our time is more valuable and should be spent doing activities that are more worthwhile than cooking for our family.

Something else I'll add to this is it is in our animal nature to spend time foraging, hunting, gathering food. And we've gotten so far away from that that, you know, how much time does the average person spend meal prepping every day? Probably not a lot of time. Probably doordashing something or Uber eats or picking up takeout. And, you know, I'll have clients that say it's. It's a lot of time on the weekend to do this meal prep and this grocery shopping. And I say, yeah, it is. And the reality is that with making a lifestyle change, we do have to spend more time prepping and foraging our food like the. The natural animals that we are.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And that. I think that is amongst the roadblocks. Yes. We have to figure out our way out of the addiction. And the addiction is very, very real in that when you first make that transition from a processed food diet, it's very hard to get that same.

Release, that same feeling from real food. Right. Like, it's not gonna be as salty, as sweet, as. As oily as texture. You know, like, it's just. It's just not the same. So it's. It's replacing that part of it and overcoming that part of the addiction. But we're also addicted to convenience. We really are. We're addicted to convenience. And I would imagine that that's one of the major roadblocks that you deal with. Mm.

The great news, though, is this. The brain neuroadaptation. The brain is so malleable that the way that your brain chemically reacts to the EAs, the convenience, the pleasure from these foods. Yes. It is, you know, so pleasurable right now. And when you stop doing those things, you have a dramatic withdrawal from that convenience and that pleasure and that joy. But the brain will adapt, and every day it gets a little bit easier, and eventually it becomes your new norm, the prepping and truly enjoying meals that aren't hyper processed. You will get there, and it will become natural to you, but you got to stick through it at the beginning. When it's the absolute hardest. The first few days are so hard. But if you can hold on tight and allow your brain to adapt, you'll get to a point where it feels natural, normal, and you love it.

So why do you think plant based? Because, you know, right now there's the gamut of what people talk about, right? There's the carnivores out there, which I'll kind of never understand, but whatever, and then there's the paleo people and, and the plant based people and the vegans. And I, I want to be clear that I do think that there's a distinction between plant based and vegans. And I think vegans are, it's more of a political statement than anything else. Because a vegan diet that's not synonymous with healthy. Like I always want to point out that Twizzlers are vegan, right? So I, I don't, I, I put that in a whole other category. But tell me why, what, what made you decide that plant based was the right diet?

One of my favorite quotes is simplicity is the ultimate form of sophistication. And I'm sure your listeners can agree that there is a, you could do a different diet every day of the year, every day for the rest of your life if you wanted to. And when I was looking at all of these different ways that I could eat, I said, why is this so complicated? Bringing it back to the fact that as humans, we are animals. Why I don't feel like we have to know the macros and know the calories and the timing and everything. Shouldn't it be so much more intuitive? Don't I have these built in mechanisms that will guide me to the right food and how much of it to eat and when to eat and when discovering plant based nutrition and the philosophy that I follow with building your plate, which is half of your plate vegetables, and then the other half of your plate is made up of a source of protein, a source of starch and some healthy fats sprinkled on top. I said, this makes sense to me. This is natural, normal food that we can find out in nature. It doesn't have a lot of ingredients. Ingredient, it doesn't have an ingredients list. It's not made in a processing plant. This is the way that I truly feel humans as animals were designed to eat because this is the food that nature, God, however you see it, gave, gave to us. So I'm going to eat these natural foods, started doing it. As I said, I was training for a marathon. My mar. My training times improved. Dramatically right from the get go of eating a larger abundance of whole real plant foods. Felt incredible. Saw the change with my parents and I just said this makes sense. I feel like I've cracked the code. I don't have to delve into all the complications of or the, the complex nature of when to eat and how much. And pairing this food with that food, it's that I feel is designed to make me a marionette to the diet industry that I don't want to be. Instead, I'm going to eat whole real natural food, listen to my body's hunger fullness cues and my body has loved it.

What did your diet look like before? I mean, was this a dramatic departure from what you used to do?

I grew up standard American diet, a totally normal kid and very much grew up in a normal relationship with food house. There was no diet. Like my mom didn't diet growing up. There was nothing weird about food. It was totally normal standard standard American diet. And I loved junk food. I love to go out with my friends and go get fast food. And so grew up just eating what a lot of kids normally eat on the standard American diet, really not knowing what it felt like to feel well and to feel healthy. Because once I eat, that was all I knew was this was the standard American diet. Didn't have any health issues.

Do you mean like you would have.

Cereal for breakfast or bacon or.

Dinner Every night was either ziti. We alternated between two dinners. We had ziti and then we had chicken and broccoli growing up. And those were the two dinners we had every night. You know, like pizza on the weekends. Pretty like down the middle. Normal. Yeah. And then once I started eating this way, like I said, I went from running a certain mile time on my splits to a minute faster for each split. And I said, and I had so much energy, it was sleeping great. I said, oh my gosh, is this how I was supposed to be feeling this entire time? I didn't know that I was feeling unwell. I was feeling totally normal. And then it was like I unlocked this vibrant way of living and this energy that I didn't even know existed because I didn't know what it was like to be properly nourished.

Yeah, I mean, it's really astounding. So what do you think the, what do you think of the objections to plant based eating?

Which ones come to mind when you think of the objections?

There's the whole like gundry school of thought where you know, the plants have lectins and the lectins are going to poison you or, you know, they're high in oxalates and the oxalates are going to give you kidney stones. And you know, there, there's a lot of attempt to villainize plants.

Yeah, I, I see it as, how could it be possible that fruits and vegetables are not good for us? Look at all the benefits they have. I also heard something recently that if something doesn't have a side effect, then it doesn't have an effect. So people are saying like, does this medication have a side effect? It's like, well, if it doesn't have any effect at all, then it wouldn't have any side effects. But there's so much good in fruits and vegetables that whatever bad there is must be far outweighed by all of the benefits. I'll say too. Like, I am.

So far from being a cult leader or an extremist or purist. My goal is to get people to eat as many whole real natural foods as well possible. I'll have people ask me, how do I get my husband on this diet? How do I, I say, let's just start with making half of your plate vegetables that seem like, who could argue against this? You know, if you want to have fried chicken and brownies on the other half of your plate, I'm okay with that. Because if we can start to make this transition in a way that's very gentle and in a way that feels warm and approachable and it makes sense to you, then let's do it that way. So my first step, for anybody who asks, like, where do I begin? Just start with making half your plate vegetables. Once you feel comfortable with that, we can start to work on the other half of your plate. But let's start there. And like, who could possibly argue with that? I did see the, the man that you're talking about saying that grapes are worse for you than M&Ms. I actually made a video on it, which I usually don't do. But I was like, guys, come on, be serious with me. Do we really think that grapes are worse for us than M&Ms. With all the vitamins, minerals, polyphenols, all the antioxidants. Come on, guys.

Yeah, I know. Although I, I do, I worry about grapes and peanuts just because of the.

Pesticides and the mycotoxins and they're, they're not my favorite plant based foods, but I would take them 20,000 times over. A handful of M&M's. Right. Like we've, we've almost thrown logic out the door. I remember, I mean, There's a very big influencer, Max Luga there, who I don't even know if I'm saying his name right. And I remember he had a post once that was like villainizing almonds as a snack because he's very, very, very.

Animal based.

And I said, you know, let's. Can we pick something else to villainize? Like if you want to villainize potato chips as a, as a snack, great. If you want to villainize popcorn as a snack, all right.

But almonds, really, like we're going to.

Pick a perfectly, perfectly good, healthy food. Like if you're eating raw almonds as your snack, I mean, I could argue that no one needs snacks because, you know, we're not toddlers. But beyond that, I mean, why? I just don't think that we should, as a health care community villainize things that are perfectly healthy.

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Let me give you a little look behind the curtain as a content creator as you know what gets views, things that are extreme and things that are contradictory. So you think of almonds as a healthy food. Of course it's a healthy food. It's a whole natural food. It's from the earth. So when you're scrolling and you see somebody say, almonds are unhealthy, you stop. That person gets views. Views. If you're to make something that says potato chips are unhealthy, people say, I know that must, but I like my potato chips. I'm going to scroll by. So in social media, where everyone's screaming, the person that gets the views is the person that screams the loudest with the most absurd thing. And this is another reason why there's so much contradictory information out there. Because people are desperate for views.

Yeah, that's true. I just feel. I don't know, I come down to, like, we have to be responsible. If millions of people are going to be listening to us, we need to be responsible with the information that we're putting out there. And I don't want anyone out there thinking, oh, my God, almonds are bad for you.

I know. It's. It's.

I think it's irresponsible.

It's. It's unethical. It really is. I think whenever I'm making a video or I'm endorsing a product, I ask myself, would I sit down on the couch next to my mom and tell her this information and tell her to run with it? And I don't think a lot of people consider that when they make these videos. Truly, it's a desperation for views and money and clout and popularity.

Yeah.

So you gotta find the good ones.

Yeah. So.

To me, it's totally logical that we should be eating more plants. To you, it's totally logical that we should be eating more plants, and yet there's still a lot of resistance out there. What are the biggest complaints that you see when, you know, people know that they need to make a change, but what's their resistance to change?

A fear of what they're losing. So with this. I talked about addiction earlier with a relationship with food, where food is your best friend. It's the thing you look forward to. It's your form of stress relief. It's your companion. What am I gonna do without that thing? It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy on the inside. I can't imagine not doing that. And it takes immense bravery to break free from it. But I tell clients or anybody who's interested, let's just run an experiment. I'm not saying that you have to give up the overeating or the junk food forever, but why don't we run an experiment where for 21 days, you take a break from it, try out a new way of eating and just step into it with curiosity to see how it feels for you. You can go back after those 21 to all the junk food, sure. But give yourself the opportunity to see how it feels. Be curious because you might unlock a new level of living and wellness that you could not even comprehend is possible. It reminds me of this story that I heard about worms. Worms only have two senses. They can, I believe that they can feel so that they can dig and. And I believe that they can sense light in the dirt so they can like somewhat see, but they don't have any other. I could be wrong about what the two exact senses are, but they don't have any other senses besides that. So they could not comprehend what it's like to hear or to taste have the senses that we have or smell. That's. It's incomprehensible to them because they've never experienced it. And I would argue that this is the same thing with feeling well and feeling healthy. It's the experience I had where when I unlocked that next level of wellness and health, it was an experience that I could not have even predicted because I didn't know it existed and that might be waiting for the people that are so fearful to start this new way of eating. You could start something that you will never want to go back to the old way.

So you mentioned that you often negotiate for three weeks. What's the magic of three weeks?

Weeks. Three weeks is long enough that you'll see a result, but it is short enough that it feels doable. It's not a whole month, it's not two months, it's 21 days. Like I can do anything for 21 days and you can.

Yeah, yeah. I also think that 21 days is the time it takes to break an old habit and build a new one.

It's like just long enough to build a new habit. So if you're doing something every day for 21 days, that is the time that your brain can, I think, create that, that habit that into.

Like transcribe it into memory.

I'll say too you had mentioned, you know, what are the reservations? What are people fearful of? One of my favorite sayings with mentor ism is I can't help with the pretend. So if you're afraid that all these things are going to happen, what am I supposed to do now if they're not actually happening? Let's try it out and see what happens and see if you. If all these horrible health issues that you're afraid of are going to happen. But I'm more than willing to bet that you're going to be in much better health.

Yeah, I actually approach most things with that, that if you're not doing something out of fear that it might bring something on, just start doing it. And if that thing happens, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Right. But the more likely scenario is that it's not going to happen.

So I know you do a lot of coaching for weight loss.

I would imagine it's not so much for disease prevention. Am I, am I right?

The average client age of the people that I work with is probably in their 50s. The reason for this is because I documented my mom's journey on my program on my YouTube channel, and that exploded. And I was so blessed with so many women that came to me post menopause going through the same thing my mom went through with menopause weight gain, wanting to get the same results. And as we tend to get older, our focus on disease prevention and looking at what our family history is, our focus on that increases. So a lot of the women that I work with, not only post menopause, but many postmenopause women also have their cholesterol climbing and a lot of women pre diabetic. So I would say the three main health related topics that I delve into a lot with clients is the hormonal changes in menopause cholesterol and blood sugar regulation in getting a 1C to a healthier place.

So the interesting thing is that though that does prevent, if you address those things, it does prevent end stage disease. But you're kind of proving my point for me in that they don't come to you until something's wrong. They don't come to you until they've gained weight or they've been told that their cholesterol is now elevated, which happens with women.

As they become menopausal because cholesterol is the precursor to all of our sex hormones. And when you. So we're used to making a certain amount of cholesterol in order to go on and make our sex hormones. And essentially when the ovaries shut down, we shut down one of the factories, but we still have all the substrate to make it right. So we still have all the precursor because our body doesn't know that we're shutting the factory down. So.

Is 100% women who as they go through menopause, their, their cholesterol is going to bump. It will even out over time. And so everyone knows cholesterol is not related to or causative of heart disease, cholesterol is actually an anti inflammatory molecule. And the reason that we pay so much attention to cholesterol levels is for the purposes of selling and medications and not for any other reason. So that's just the cynical truth telling side of me coming out right now.

But these women are coming to you because they're gaining weight, because their cholesterol is going up, because they are now pre diabetic, because estrogen is so important in terms of our metabolic health. And so when you lose estrogen, you also lose your ability to control your metabolism in the same way. So no one comes for prevention. We're just not a society built on it. They all come for intervention, but at least it is early intervention and that's great. So is there a difference between what you do for people for weight loss as compared to what you would do for someone for disease prevention?

Yeah, there is a difference with weight loss, you'll start this, you'll get on the scale next week, you'll see that you're a pound down. Great. We're making progress. You're going to see pretty quick, fast results with disease prevention. As we know, for blood markers to change, for you to see a real change, it's going to take longer, it's going to take more trust and patience and commitment. It's going to be more of a spiritual experience with energetically healing as well. Weight loss is, is a math equation, but the healing journey is not just physical. It's emotional, it's spiritual. It's getting back in tune with your body, rebuilding trust with it. And that's another whole world that I delve into is the mindset side of things, which is going to be much more hefty when it comes to healing. The spiritual side, the emotional side, and really tapping into healing and abundant energy as opposed to weight loss, which is at the end of the day, we just need to make sure that we're consuming less calories than our body is burning.

Yeah, but we don't. You, I, I have heard you say that it's not about like calories in and calories out or that we shouldn't be trying to count calories, which I think is a whole ridiculous thing anyway.

The thing is calories count, but don't count calories, is the saying.

Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Because our bodies, like I said earlier, our bodies, we don't want to be overweight. Humans aren't designed to be overweight. Like, trust me, your body doesn't want to be overweight just as much as you do. Because it's not good for it, it doesn't operate well. It's the center of disease. So our bodies are built to be at a healthy weight and because of that we have built in hunger fullness cues. We have hormones, leptin and ghrelin, whose job is to make sure we don't eat too much and we don't eat too little so we don't have to sit there with a calculator and making sure that we're eating just enough or not too much. Our body has the ability to do that. And that's, that's where that saying comes from, of calories count. But don't waste your time counting calories. It's. Yeah, I would argue too the stress of counting calories is going to raise your cortisol, which is going to make it harder to release weight.

Yeah, yeah. I mean I know some people, even my son, like upset excessively tracks what he's eating. And I say to him, you know, you're wasting your time in that you can't you counting calories. Like if you have a 10 calorie abundance or deficit, how are you even.

Accounting for how many steps you're taking every day and how much you're doing at the gym? Like you just, just, you can't, you can't possibly. And so I agree with you about listening to your body and intuitive eating and all of that. And you know, there are other people who talk about the macros and counting macros. So how do you know without counting macros? Because that is not another entirely ridiculous, cumbersome thing that I never, yeah, I.

Never did it, thank God.

But how do you know, how do you help people to know that they are being nourished without counting macros?

I focus on how to build your plate. So I said earlier, half your plate is veggies. So you're going to get all of your vitamins, minerals, nutrients here. So long as you're rotating your vegetables on the other half of your plate, we'll do about a fourth year plate. As a source of protein. I love plant based protein, Tofu, tempeh, beans, peas, lentils. But I don't think everybody needs to not eat animal products. And if you want to eat animal products, great, have chicken, fish, salmon. Then on the remaining fourth of your plate, a source of starch, whole grains or some tubers, root vegetables like sweet potatoes, potatoes, plantains, squash, or whole grains like quinoa, rice, farro, amaranth, and then a sprinkling of healthy fats, nuts, seeds, avocado, over the top of the meal. Now you've made sure you have your carbohydrates because you've got your starch, you have your protein 4th year plate, you have the source of healthy fats and then you have all the micronutrients with the vegetables and with this formula you'll be taken care of.

Of. I know that a lot of women that come to me, they are at the end of that metabolic spectrum where there are a number of studies, a Korean study, I, I can't bring the rest to mind where upwards of 50% of women diagnosed with breast cancer have metabolic syndrome. And I know that a lot of people struggle with the, the whole idea of plant based because it is a more carbohydrate rich diet. How do we help people to correct metabolic disease while at the same time promoting a plant based diet?

I think a lot of women fear weightlifting because they think that they're going to get bulky. But as women we just don't have the testosterone for it. We're not built to get bulky and it's overlooked by so many women. And it is so important for building muscle and maintaining muscle. And maintaining muscle. Metabolically active tissue not only is going to boost your metabolism but also it's going to keep your bones healthy. Because if we don't have a lot of muscle, our bones say, well, what's the point of us? You know, we're no need for us to stay strong.

Bone follows muscle. So the more muscle you build, the stronger your bones are going to be. Bone follows muscle.

Yep. So don't be afraid of weightlifting and lifting heavy weights and doing resistance training and walking with a weighted vest. You can get adequate protein. You could increase your protein by eating more of those plant based sources. Your body can only handle so much protein, about like, like 30 grams a meal. After that it's just, you're gonna pee it out, break it down into amino acids and pee it out. And your kidneys and liver will have.

To also gonna get converted to carbohydrates. But that's a whole lot. Yes.

Yeah. Isn't that so funny? Gluconeogenesis. So people don't realize this process that if you're eating tons and tons of protein and you think that you're evading the carbohydrates, your body's like no, no, no, we're gonna convert those. Yeah. Because your body's not stupid. Yes. So you can certainly get adequate protein. But protein isn't just gonna magically build muscle. If you eat it, you have to give your muscles reason to grow and build, and then the protein is what allows the repair. That's how muscles are built, is they. They tear and then they repair. And the repair is how they grow. And the protein allows that to happen. But you gotta get them torn in the first place. You got to work out and give them reason to grow.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's such an important part of it. I mean, I think that the intention between eat right and exercise is. Is the right advice, but people don't know specifically what that means. And you bring up such an important point, especially in the perimenopausal, menopausal population, the importance of weight training cannot be emphasized enough. Cannot.

As a runner, a born runner, soccer player, I can so identify with the resistance to weight training. And I can really be empathetic to women who in their 50s or 60s or 70s will say, I've never picked up a dumbbell in my life. I'm way too intimidated to start right now. And back to what I was saying earlier, with simplicity being the ultimate form of sophistication, that, that resistance. I understand. And I also want to encourage you to not over complicate it and literally start with 1 pound dumbbells if that's going to be the thing that gets you in there and eventually work your way up. But don't fall victim to thinking that it's too late to start, because it's never too late to start. And you'll be amazed at body will change as you continue to weightlift.

Yeah, it, it's, it's been a huge area of resistance for me. I grew up an athlete, a tennis player.

Ice skater. So my, I never did weight training. Never. Until I hit menopause when I was like, wait, whose body is this that I'm in? Like, all of a sudden I had a gut. All of a sudden I like, if I would put on a couple of pounds, a couple of days of dieting would get rid of it. And then I hit menopause and like, love handles and things that I just didn't recognize. And the only thing that changed that was weight training. And I hate it. And I do it two days a week.

How did you overcome that mental resistance?

I hired a trainer.

It was an accountability thing for me.

Yeah.

And also, like, if I'm paying for it, then I'm gonna go.

Right? Like, it's just to. Even a gym membership wasn't enough to compel me, like, whatever, I'll go tomorrow. You know, I pay for the whole month. I'LL go tomorrow. But the individual training sessions with someone who is taking me through it and holding me accountable and pushing me, and it happens that my trainer is a friend, so I kind of can't avoid her, you know, like if I'm, if I'm not showing up, she's, she's going to hold me accountable. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not some stranger or anything like that. And so that's what, that's what did it for me. I'm too just about two years into it now.

And the transformation in my body is like not to be believed, not to be believed. I've never eaten. Even when I was at the top of my athletic game, I didn't look like this. So it has made a huge difference for me. And I'm not big or bulky or anything like that, but I do have muscle definition. I just don't inherently have enough testosterone in my body to ever look like any of those weight training people. Also, I would never work that hard in the gym. I mean, I work very hard, but for 40 minutes I'm not going every day like I do 40 minutes twice a week. And that's all I can commit to.

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I got a trainer a few years ago and the reason why I did was because I wanted that to teach me how to Properly do everything in the gym and how to combine my workouts and all of that. And I remember saying to him, I go, I'm on camera a lot, so I want my arms to look good, I want my shoulders to look good, my biceps. And I said, we can skip legs. I'm a soccer player. Like, I'm a runner. Like, we can just skip it.

Yes. And I didn't. And what he taught me is that. But not only is there, like, when you work out your legs, you're not just working out your legs, you're working your core. You're. There's all these stabilizing muscles. Everything is interconnected. But chemically, the way that your body operates after a workout is something to not be overlooked. And he says, when you have leg day, the rest of the day you burn more calories. There are chemicals that release that's going to promote muscle growth in the rest of your body. So to. To anybody out there that's thinking, I'll just focus on arms, or I'm just going to focus on core because I want to get rid of this pooch or whatever it is, you got to focus on the whole body. You'll benefit the entire body by doing so.

And also your legs are your bigger muscle group.

Right.

And so that's really the center of your metabolism. And I remember for years, my husband was a hockey player in college, and for years he was like, oh, I don't need to do legs. So he just did upper body. And, you know, by the time he had his 40s, he did have a big developed upper body, but his legs were tiny, and he had the metabolic disease to show for it. And it. It is astounding the difference that it makes when you start to do lower body weightlifting, because that is the bulk of where your muscle is, like your upper body, it's a fraction compared to what's happening in your lower body. So you have to. Have to. Have to include it. Absolutely. I want to, like, who are your major?

Who.

Who inspires you? I'm curious.

I know I talked about my parents earlier. I talk about them all the time because they started this lifestyle in their late 50s. My mom is 65, my dad is 67. And it. It's. It was about 10 years ago that they started this diet. So they were 55 and 57 when they started eating this way. Growing up on TV dinners and standard American Diet and, you know, decades of eating a certain way. And their openness to this was so inspiring to me and their commitment to it. And if they were able to do it at nearly 60 years old and sustain it that I admire so much. I use them as an example all the time and I just feel like I have the best parents in the world and they truly inspire me every day.

That's amazing.

So they've been able to maintain it. And do you have siblings?

Yes, I have two older brothers who don't have this way.

Have they bought in too?

No, my fiance, we've been together over six years at this point and he, I call plant forward. So he's a great example of. He will eat an abundance of vegetables and fruits and whole grains. He'll still eat animal products and has seen huge benefits from that digestion, energy wise, sleep wise. So I've definitely converted him a little bit. All right. I also, I'm so like, to each their own and every body is different and if somebody wants my help, I'm more than happy to help them. But if somebody doesn't want my help, then that's fine with me too. I'm, I'm not like an argue type of person. I'm not a debate type of person. Whatever people want to do is if they're happy and healthy is fine with me.

I know that you're not looking to convert the, the people that are not looking to be converted. I totally get that. But what about the people that are out there? They really, they really need your help. They really need this kind of advice, but they're too busy. They feel overwhelmed about food preparation and cooking and that kind of thing. How, how do we help these people? How do we reach these people? Because they need our help. They, they are overweight and they do have pre diabetes and they do. Or, or diabetes and they do. They are at increased risk for some major chronic diseases, but they're just so overwhelmed and intimidated by the thought of having to remake their lives.

Lives.

Like how do we help these people?

If you don't make time for your wellness, you will be forced to make time for your sickness. This will catch up with you and you might think, well, I'm doing fine now. I'll, I'll address it when I need to. It's going to be a heck of a lot worse by the time that you are forced to address it.

You're going to feel a heck of a lot better when you do address it, which is right now. And the third point that I'll say is it doesn't have to be this dramatic complete upheaval of your life. We can just start with one meal a day. Remember I talked about earlier, half your plate vegetables. Let's just start with dinner being half vegetables. Once we've got that down, we can add that into breakfast and we can slowly make these changes. But don't think that you're just going to keep doing what you're doing. And then one day when it's really bad, I'll make the change. Because if you can't do it now, it's going to be a million times harder when you're forced to.

Yeah, absolutely. Are there some. Some tips that you have for people to try to simplify this transition from that culture of convenience where, you know, most of their meals are takeouts and to. To preparing your food at home?

Like what.

What are some easy steps and easy ways to make that transition?

I talked about the plate builder earlier, which, by the way, I have a free plate builder calculator for anybody who's interested. I can give it to you, Dr. Jen, and we can put it in the show notes. But remember, that plate builder I talked about is split into a few categories. Four categories. Vegetables, protein, starch, and healthy fats. So let's just take out a piece of paper, put those four categories down, and you can use Google if you need help with filling in. What from these categories do I enjoy? What vegetables do I enjoy? What whole grains do I enjoy? Sources of protein and sources of healthy fats. We'll go to the grocery store and get those categories, prep them, and then you've. You've created a very easy, convenient week for yourself where you're just putting meals together that are mixing and matching these categories. People get so stumped on recipes and feeling like they need to orchestrate this cohesive presentation of some knock it out of the park meal. That's immense pressure to put on yourself. And it doesn't have to be this way. It can be a lot more simple. And then, you know, of course, get fruits that you could have between meals if you need. Yeah.

I think what you're saying is make it simple because you can always make.

It.

A little more gourmet later when this has become habit for you. Right. But in the beginning, just make it simple.

We call them kiss meals in my program, Keep it simple, Sweetie meals, where it's just a combination of these simple ingredients and, like, there's recipes galore. Yes. But I find that to be very overwhelming in a practical sense, that you always got to make sure you have all the different ingredients and the right amounts. That, to me, is stressful. I like the simple approach.

Yeah, I agree with you. And it's. And until you build the habit. Right. That this simple approach is what's going to get you through.

What are the, like, major pushbacks that you get when you. When you start to work with people?

What am I going to do when I go to restaurants? What am I going to do when I travel? What am I going to do on Christmas? What am I going to do on Thanksgiving? Okay, we're talking about the 2% of your life. Let's talk about what we're going to do. The 98 people are so fixated on what am I going to do when I go to France for my 50th birthday and they give me wine and cheese? You're going to have the wine and cheese.

What do you tell them?

I'm.

I'm curious if you tell them something different than I do. You.

What do you. I say you're. What am I going to do for my 50th birthday when they serve me wine and cheese? You're going to drink the wine and you're going to eat the cheese. It's your 50th birthday. This accounts for 2% of your life. We are focusing on the 95, the 90%, that is what matters. Your body is built to be able to. To handle some of these toxins. If we're having wine and cheese every day, every meal, that's a problem. But these, like, 1 to 2%, the triple and the holidays and the birthdays, the obsession with these has to go. We're focusing on what you're doing on a Tuesday at 11am which is when we're. When we're recording this.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. And I tell people, like, your birthday comes once a year. You should enjoy it, but don't let one day turn into one week, turn into one month, and turn into one year. Right. Like, it's what we do most that matters.

And.

As long as, if you're gonna do that thing, eat the cake, drink the wine, like, whatever it is, I want you to enjoy it fully. Right. Like, I want you to love that and then leave it.

I have my clients set up what I call buffer meals. So if they're going out to dinner for their birthday and they're gonna have some cake after, fine, do whatever, eat whatever. I don't care what happens at that meal. But you're gonna plan your lunch for that day, and you're gonna prep it and put it in the fridge, and you're gonna plan and prep your breakfast for the next morning. And you're gonna put that in the fridge so that the meal before and the meal after is already decided so that it doesn't spiral like you talked about.

Where do you fall in the fasting school?

Not a fan of fasting, especially for women.

Men can handle it better. Okay, let me preface this. Let me backtrack a little bit. For people that are very sick, fasting and doing like a water fast at an institution can be hugely beneficial for people that are healthy and want to lose weight. I'm not a fan of fasting because what it encourages is overeating for so many people and it encourages a downregulation of our natural hunger fullness hormones leptin and ghrelin. Because if leptin and ghrelin are operating as they should and our body's saying hey, we're hungry, time for breakfast, and we say nope, my intermittent fasting window is not open yet, then ghrelin is going to say, well then what's the point of me? Like what's the point of this hormone shut down? Same with leptin. If we're eating past the point of fullness because we're so hungry when our intermittent fasting window has opened, then leptin says, well, you're not listening to me, so I'm not going to send you any fullness cues anymore. And people get into this overeating binge restrict cycle. It usually works at the beginning, but the, the body is very wise and will encourage you to eat just as many calories as you would in that little window that you would the whole day because it realizes that it's only getting food then.

And I'm curious to your whole take take on the GLP1 craze.

GLP1 can be life saving for individuals who are morbidly obese. And there's, there's no other option there. I said earlier that if something doesn't have an effect isn't it doesn't have any side or if something doesn't have any side effects, it doesn't have any effect. So of course GLP1s are going to have side effects.

For individuals where it's going to be a life saving measure, the side effects are worth it because death is probably the, the other option for them. For individuals that aren't on death's door where this is not a life saving measure, I'm not a fan of it because we don't have enough time and studies and evidence to know what those side effects sex are. But for many weight loss Population. Right, right. And I think too.

Sort of slaps this label on people that they're broken and they need a medication in order to be able to do this. And I don't believe that to be the case that they are broken and that their metabolism is broken and that they're, they're not able to do this on their own, because I know know that they are. And so I wish, I just wish a lot of people would give themselves a chance to prove that they can do this free from that medication. I would never take it.

Although I think there is some data out there in microdosing that that does look as if it is.

At least supportive for people who.

Have chronic inflammation and things like that. It does, it does, it does look like it helps them. But we're talking about, like, fractions of what is considered a therapeutic dose. I think my, my biggest thing in the weight loss population is these people, first of all, lose a tremendous amount of weight in a very short period of time. So they literally look like a melted candle. And so many of them don't.

Do the dietary changes along with it. Like, it's basically imposed starvation rather than, rather than them making a dietary transformation.

Yeah.

And so if you don't take that opportunity to remake your palette, which really does happen, like, I was immediately a birthday cake addict. Like, I was the person that if I had a bite of birthday cake, I had the whole cake and I had a tremendous, tremendous sweet tooth that now I, I, it's, I, it wouldn't even occur to me. Like, I don't even have cake on my birthday. Right. So my pallet is completely different. And what I enjoy and what excites me and what I look forward to eating is totally different. And I think with people who are severely overweight and are using the GLP1s to, to get them back to a healthy weight, this is an opportunity for them to really remake their palate. But I don't think it's happening because we just don't have enough education within our medical system. And it's just so easy to give these people prescriptions and they get a lot of positive reinforcement because they have tremendous, a tremendous amount of weight loss, but they're not being conditioned to maintain it or to maintain their health.

It would be amazing if there was some sort of system set up where you were given this drug for a certain amount of time in conjunction with a nutritionist and a trainer that would teach you how to do this naturally so that you are able to get off of it and Sustain what you achieved on it.

Yeah, yeah. And that's really what the program should look like. Like, I just don't think they do because our. It's not what our system is built on. Our system. And also I would imagine that that's not what the drug companies are interested in, because they're far more interested in customers for life.

Yeah.

So if you're only prescribed this for a short period of time and then able to sustain it and maintain it by yourself, that's really not their formula. Their formula is here, take this forever.

Right.

Yeah. And I also wanted to ask you, do you think there's anything about the order in which you eat your food that has to do with.

Metabolic processing?

Yes. So I. I often use the term naked starches with my clients.

And we want to stay away from naked starches, which is eating rice or potatoes or cereal or bread just on its own, by itself, without vegetables, and then also a source of protein. When you eat vegetables before you eat carbohydrates, you're going to line the intestines with this webbing that is going to blunt the insulin response. So if you were to have a salad and baked potato, if you eat the baked potato before the salad, blood sugar spike. If you eat the salad before the baked potato, that blood sugar is going to be a lot more steady and it's not going to spike as much. And then if you want to take it up a notch, if you have the salad, a source of protein and then the carbohydrates, you're going to have even more of a regularity with your blood sugar and stability with your blood sugar.

Yeah. So in that plate that you're making with the 50% vegetables, I'm assuming 50% that you mean non starchy vegetables, you eat them first and then eat your protein, then you probably won't get a blood sugar spike from whatever starch you choose.

Yep, exactly. Yeah.

And I think the glucose goddess does a really good job of showing everyone that, that that's how you should do things too. And it's funny that we're just not talking about this enough, that people just don't understand food well enough and don't understand.

You know, how to eat, when to eat, what to eat. And.

Despite loud voices all the time, there's still so much food confusion out there, and I think a lot of it is intentional.

I tell my clients when they start my program to do a purge of their following on Instagram and TikTok, whatever they're on, because there is so much Contradicting information. And I say let's clear everything out now. You can refollow, resubscribe later, but let's just focus on this program for now. Clear out all of the noise. It's just going to confuse you. I'll keep it nice and simple and that's what we have to do. Otherwise we're looking at all these different places. You could find an argument for and against anything and it will confuse you to the death. So, yeah, a big unfollow on your Instagram might be what a lot of people need.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and there's just. There's so much garbage out there that.

But that's probably.

That's probably good advice for everyone.

Well, Emmy, it was so great to have you today. I really appreciate your time and, and what you're doing. Helping, helping people to simplify and to get healthy. Because.

The truth is that no one can make you healthy but you. Right? There's no. It's not happening in a doctor's office or a hospital or anywhere. Health happens at home with the things that you do every single day. And you are helping to simplify it for people and giving and allowing them to access their best self. And everyone can. Right?

I love that you say that everyone can to the people listening to this. Do not underestimate the healing power of your body and give it a chance. Rebuild trust and give yourself a chance to prove that you can do this. You absolutely can.

Yeah, absolutely. So I hope this conversation has inspired everyone to approach their health and their relationship with food with more clarity and compassion and confidence. Emmy, how can people find you?

I am at Healthy Emmy on all platforms. Healthy H E A L T H Y M E E M M I E You can find me there. And Dr. Jen, I know you're going to put some info in the show notes. My free plate builder calculator is in there so they can get started there and get a free plate builder.

Amazing. Amazing. So if this episode resonated with you, please share it with another woman who needs this message. And as always, thank you for being part of my community of smart, empowered women who are taking their health into their own hands. Know that I will be back next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.