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Welcome to the Wellness Dentist Podcast. Join biological and cosmetic dentist Dr. Katie To as she explores holistic wellness through trending ideas, real stories, and patient experiences. This podcast will inspire you to make healthy lifestyle choices and take charge of your dental wellness. And now your host, the Wellness Dentist, Dr. Katie To.

Hi, I'm Dr. Katie To and welcome to the Wellness Dentist Podcast. On today's episode, I have amazing guests, a dear friend, an amazing mentor in the world of biological hygiene. We have Frances Horning today. She's a biological hygienist certified by the IBDM. She also is an amazing coach and trainer for many, many biological hygienists out there and an international speaker and amazing guest on a lot of speaking conference and meetings around the country. Welcome to the Wonder Dentist podcast.

Oh, thank you. I'm so honored that you have me here. I'm so excited.

I'm part of this. It's beyond belief. Especially during the whole pandemic, having Frances here in our studio is such a huge honor. It's so great to give her a hug and got to chit chat and catch up. In fact, Frances in my office today for this last three days helping our hygiene team to level up in biological dentistry even more. Tell me a little bit about your journey in biological hygiene.

Absolutely. I have to tell you, I'm an old bird and I own it. I love the fact that I've had a few years behind my belt. I graduated in 1984. 37 years is a couple of years, but when I was in my last semester of hygiene school, one of my classmates said, you know, we need another assistant in the practice. Would you be willing to assist? Now, I never had dental assistant before. So I said, sure, why not? So I get to the practice, I go for the interview and I see this microscope and I'm going to the dental office. Why do they have a microscope in the dental office? It didn't make sense to me. But then I was able to shadow the hygienist a little bit because they knew I was in hygiene school and then I saw it was a phase contrast microscope and I was seeing that they were taking the samples from the patient's mouth and putting it on the base and I was like, oh my gosh, they're not showing me this in school. They're not teaching me this. I was like, this is amazing. I can actually see these pathogens, the bacteria running around. Now it makes sense why a patient might have bleeding gums. So I really did a lot of study and an investigation on that. So I had the opportunity to use that for a little bit a while while I got my license while I still continued to work there as a hygienist using the face contrast. And that always piqued my interest in wanting to learn more. Now, even though I left the conventional office, I always had that mindset of not wanting to do toxic things, wanting to do more natural things. Years later, I wound up applying for a part-time position in a biological practice, and they were taking me up the stairs and I see to the left, I look, and what's sitting there is the microscope. I said, that's it. I don't care. I'm going to work here because I know the power of that tool. And it's one of the best things I could ever have done. It is a mindset. that unfortunately we're not taught in conventional school, where it's a mindset of treating the patient as a whole and really getting to the root cause of disease. And it's not just about mercury and fluoride, it's about really whole body health, pathogens and how we can really help people. Really the wellness is just what we can do is heal people and help them. It's just beyond belief. So that's my journey. It began with the microscope and it's now, well, I don't want to say ending, but now it's a different journey with the microscope. It's gotten to the point where now I have the joy of being able to share it with so many other people. That's my journey.

Thank you for that. 37 years.

Wow. Yeah.

That's so impressive. And the fact that you started out or is pick your interest with a microscope.

Yes.

You have followed that journey. And today with the microscope, it's so advanced, right? Exactly. Have plugged in a big screen TV, the medical monitor, actually.

And you don't have to look through that little. Oh my gosh, when I was using it, you remember those tube televisions, those big fat, you know, we had this little tiny screen. Gold blurry and you can hardly see it now. I mean, the technology, it's how it's improved.

And the accuracy of it.

Exactly. It's amazing.

We see though on the screen, we're like, OMG, right? And patient, I'm sure we have seen the reaction from.

Blows them away.

Seeing is believing.

Pictures with a thousand words. 100%. We need any more analogies, we're gonna throw them at you.

I know that a big part of your last three days with our office and our team is working on the microscope level. You're also talking a lot about what kind of pathogen you see in this slide. We actually have some real patients, slide sample, the last couple of days. And can you tell us what pathogen that you've seen in most of these moderate severe cases?

Exactly. One of the things that really concerns me, there's about 57 types of spirochetes in the oral cavity. Spirochetes are the bad actors. Those gram-negative facultative anaerobes can cause havoc. and they've done studies where they have found these Chlamydia, denti Cola or Forsyth in brains of people who have Alzheimer's. So now we can actually take that sample chair side and look at it within minutes and find the spirochetes on that slide. So now if I see spirochetes, my red flags are up. Okay, I need to get rid of this pathogens because now I know I can potentially prevent a patient from having a problem. or alleviate some of the systemic inflammation they have. So we can find these spirochaetes. We can find gliding rods, which are usually either like cytotoxoplasma or ethnocliatium, or it could be, we don't know what. That's why I like the oral DNA also sometimes, but the chair side, seeing these gliding rods and spirochaetes running around, that activity, it makes it more real. Also finding things like amoeba. Yes, amoeba. We saw amoeba and trichomonads.

In action.

In action. This one trichomonad 10x, which is shown to be facultative as a sport is causing periodontal disease. This thing was booking like it was having a field day. The Klebsiella pneumoniae was just sucking up everything. And you can see the membrane making, propelling it. It was just amazing to see because, you know, we're a little bit geeky. We like that kind of stuff. We love watching that stuff. But then we're like, okay, wow, snap out of it. It's not fun time. It's a time to really pay attention. How can we get rid of these parasites? bacteria that I know for a fact is going to cause a systemic reaction and an immune response. Because it's not the calculus, it's that biofilm. It's those pathogens in the biofilm that's causing a immune system response and a systemic inflammation. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but systemic inflammation is going to create a lot of other problems. So it's not just here, guess what? News alert, mouth's attached to the body. And we have always treated it as a separate entity. and the fact that we have a tool that we can engage our patient and really show them what's causing their disease. They're going to own their disease. They're going to really be engaged and they're going to ask more questions and they're going to really accept their treatment recommendations. Because it's not just about doing a scaling and polishing. We're not just two standards. It's about really helping their health.

That's perfect. And you talk about treatment. A lot of patients was so used to the word deep cleaning or a cleaning or it's just a cleaning. It's okay if I miss my cleaning.

That's a trigger I know.

I know you're cringing when you said that. Then in biological hygiene, you've been teaching and training a lot of biological hygienists using ozonated water, ozonated oil, using laser therapy, and then now you're having local prebiotic. It's just amazing what we have naturally that we can help the body to heal. So can tell us a bit more about what's your approach and a little bit of sequence of if a patient not aware of any of their gum condition, walk in and say, I want to examine the cleaning. Like they wanting a haircut. How do they go through that process with you as a biological hygienist? Wonderful. I'll be happy to help you.

And then the first thing I'm going to explain to them is as part of our process, we like to always check the pH of your mouth because pH is very important because we certainly don't want you to have any cavities. So if you have a very acidic mouth, you might have more higher risk of having tooth decay. And then second of all, if your mouth is very acidic, you could potentially harbor more bad bacteria 'cause they love to live in an acidic environment. So we're gonna quick check your pH. So I take a pH paper, takes a few seconds, checks to make sure they're alkaline. If not, then we're gonna have a conversation. What we can do and say, the next one I'm gonna do is it's important to me to find out exactly the actual state of your health of your mouth. So I'm gonna take a sample of the bacteria, or the plaque from underneath your gum line, you're gonna hardly feel me touching. Painless. You're not even gonna feel me touching hardly at all. And I'm just gonna get that on the slide so that we can make sure that you have only good bacteria. You always wanna try to be positive. You don't wanna have a negative connotation to the patient. So we take that slide and then we proceed with the cleaning. And the cleaning is gonna be using medical grade ozone water. We're not just using city line water, which has got, gosh knows what in it, you know, toxins, heavy metals, and it's just terrible. So we use the proprietary canisters with water that has been medical grade ozonated and then doing that type of cleaning. And then at some point, say, you know what? Let's go take a peek at that slide. Let's go make sure everything is good and healthy. So we go look at the slide and at that time we determine if there's good bacteria and if there's bad bacteria. And if I see any bad bacteria, well, if there's good, I'm going to point that out first. Look, this is great. See these little dots here? Those are good healthy bacteria. I'm glad to see that. If I see anything bad, I'm going to throw them. I say, you'll see this, and then I have a little bit of a graph. I point to the graph. You see this here? You see that? That's a spirochete. I don't want those spirochetes in there because not only do they cause gum inflammation, they can actually travel to your brain. And remember, your mouth is only two inches from your brain. I know that's not how it works. But you have to put it in a sense that the patient will understand. You say, we don't want this to get into your bloodstream. So then you have more of a deeper conversation about the spirochete or a parasite, whatever you find in there. And then now all of a sudden they're asking more questions. And then even when I'm doing the cleaning with the ozonated water, I ask them, I said, are you familiar with ozone? Like, say if it's a patient who has no clue, they're not a holistic patient. Do you know what ozone is? Yeah, it's that ozone only. And I said, no, no, no, this is actually, we're gonna be using medical grade ozone. That medical grade ozone has been shown to be highly effective in killing bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites. I said, so, and it plus it invigorates your good healthy cells. So we really wanna use this. So you're educating them while you're working on them. and the process will continue. We talk a little bit more about their slide, you get them back in the chair, and then we like to use some herbal solutions that will help enhance the health of the patient's tissue. You kind of make it like it's a spa day. Because, you know, now we're going to use nice soothing, healing, toning, conditioning, healing herbs now. You make them feel as if they're really well taken care of. So you're going to be using something that has like an antimicrobial, something that's going to be soothing, toning, like CoQ10, calendula, things like that. So the biological cleaning in some ways is similar, but in many ways is different because it's very enhanced. And actually it could all be done in a regular hygiene appointment. You say, wow, there's too many things. I'm never gonna get this done in my normal time. Yes, you can. Because it's stuff you're already doing, you're just adding a little bit of layers to it. So it's all about efficiency. It's about really taking care of that patient, having them understand why you're doing it. You're not doing anything to them. I'm not doing this to you, I'm doing this for you.

Oh, what a gift. We have patients come back and tell us, I never feel my mouth like this before.

That was the best cleaning I ever had in my life. They're raving. Nobody's ever done this for me. It really makes that difference because in their concept, it's not just what you know, it's how you make them feel. Delivering over and above and really showing them how much you care about them. I care about you that much. I wanna do these things for you. I wanna use the ozone, I wanna use the herbal solutions, and I wanna be able to do what I need to do to keep you as healthy as possible. So really building that relationship because in biological dentistry, it's not just about treating the body, it's emotion, spirit, mental. It's about really treating that patient as a whole and coming from a spirit of caring. You care that much about the patient, you'll do whatever you need to to get them the treatment that they need.

And you wanna do it in such a way coming from a loving place. We like the patient cheerleader and guy, and they are the hero. They're the one that implementing 99% of the work. We give them the information and the steps and the support, and then they make it happen. And so we want patient to know, this is you. I know that we're doing it. Just like, I love the analogy that you said, there's 365 days in a year. We see you maximum four times a year in our practice, but patient get their pediatric recare visit, really record looking to understand the importance of connections between the mouth and the systemic. But that 361 day that patients are taking care of their own health. And I know that you really big about talking about nutrition with the supplements is a big part of it. Absolutely. I really intrigued when you mentioned about the natural antibiotic. Tell us a little bit more about that. Yes.

Yeah. So in dentistry, we're accustomed to using your amoxicillin, your cefalex, your ciproflox. All that, the antibiotics, and we all know that causes antibiotic resistance and it causes gut issues, especially for women. It causes us other issues. And plus, yes, it is a systemic problem, but it's also a localized problem. So how can I address this localized problem and treat it systemically without putting toxins or potential materials into the patient's body that can offset their microflora and really cause an imbalance or dysbiosis in their body? So there are a lot of natural antibiotics, natural substances that you can use that are extremely effective. Lots of research behind it. See, that's the thing. Oh, it's natural. There's no research behind it. It can't work. I want evidence-based on peer-reviewed studies that show that it works. Yeah, there's plenty of studies to show that this stuff is extremely effective. Things like oregano, even olive leaf, aloe vera, peppermint, colloidal silver. Colloidal silver is huge. So many things that you can do that are so effective, but they're gentle on the patient's system. So you're going to be able to get the result you need without overburdening the body with something that's gonna affect them with side effects. If I can help you in a way that's gonna be kinder to your body, why would I use something else? It doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm about supportive therapy, using things that are natural to help mitigate the pathogenic load. Also supportive therapy like probiotics, using localized probiotics, using systemic probiotics. 'Cause guess what? It starts here and it ends there. It's all one big tube. so we have to make sure the gut health is good. That's another course for another day for somebody else about leaky gut and all that stuff. So we're swallowing over a billion bacteria every day. It can go back and forth. So we have to make sure that systemic health is good. So I love supportive therapy with probiotics, along with other things, CoQ10, antioxidants. A lot of antioxidants are great because how many of us have oxidative stress just from just regular stressors and the water, what we breathe. So there's a lot of factors involved.

Environmental.

Yeah, exactly. Contribute to periodontal disease. It's not just calculus or just biofilm. Now, I said that for a reason because it's not the calculus. It is not the calculus. It is the biofilm. You need to treat the bugs. That's right. I'm not worried about removing every last piece of calculus. I mean, yes, I am because I'm type A like that. But I'm going to make sure I treat the biofilm, 'cause that's the cause of the disease.

It's really interesting that during the pandemic, nobody really know or seen the COVID virus, but everyone know what is shape, like how it spike it looks, it's all over the social medias and the news. Same thing here, when you come into biological office that have a microscope, you actually can see what kind of bugs that you have in the mouth. And so you can treat it targeted and see that We had a slide a couple of days ago, right? Patients come in, we took the initial slide, and we see all kind of high risk bugs. Then after the treatment, we do immediate another slide, and you see such a day and night difference. On the same visit.

No, remarkable.

Even for us, we see them on.

As how many speech literally had quite a few amoeba, a couple of trichomonad, which You don't see that often, but there was a few trichomonad, 10x in there, lots of spirochetes and white blood cells, I mean, an abundance of this. And then you did the treatment with ozone and laser and gas insufflation and all this stuff. And then you take the slide and you see it's a clean slate. It's like, this can't be the same person. That's right. That shows how effective what we do. And then if I was working in a conventional office, I would immediately see that patient do scaling and root planing and give them a prescription for a mouthwash. that blue stuff that causes a lot of staining and supragingival calculus. It's not addressing those bugs because by me just mechanically removing harder calculus, that's not effective. And that blue rinse just goes about the oral cavity. It's not getting subgingivally and it's not getting systemically. So that's the approach, that's the whole rationale of biological hygiene. It's about getting to finding the cause. seeing the cause. And once I see that and then the patient sees it, that's important. The patient needs to see that slide. A few days ago, there was a new patient and I did a slide for the new patient and we brought him to the microscope and I showed him. I said, look, this is a spiral key and this is me. But I didn't even have to say, what do I need to do to get that out of my mouth? You tell me what I need to do and I'm going to do it. As a young man, he was like 35. Whatever I have to do, I will do it. basically you don't even have to coerce a patient into having treatment. Or flossing.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

I'm gonna start flossing. They really changed their mindset. And I said, yeah, what concerns me is that this can get into your bloodstream and even more so. I said, you,'re married, you have a girlfriend? Yeah, I'm married. He goes, you, might be giving that to your wife. Or who knows, she might have given it to you. And that's how you open a conversation and maybe getting the spouse or the significant other into the practice too. 'Cause it's more about, sure you wanna build your practice, but it's about helping people. Because if we treat that patient and we don't treat how he's getting the pathogens, then it's just gonna keep happening. So you really kinda need to go down that rabbit hole. That's what we do in biological hygiene and dentistry, right? We don't just treat and send them on their way. We do a real deep follow through, deep dive. Makes a difference.

Patients want treatment. And the impact that we do, not just for the patient, but you see how many Patients coming back with their significant other, or their friends, or their parents, or their children, because now they see the importance of that. And you said the three main source, mother?

Mothers, lovers, and pets.

And pets, yeah. I can't forget the story about the cat. Can you tell us about that? Sure. I know a lot of our listeners have pets.

Okay. I had a patient several years ago where I wasn't the person who did the scan, we were playing on the patient, but looking at the history, the patient had trichomonad. I took the slide. She still has trichomonad. I said, you, have your supplements? She goes, yeah, I took them all. I said, oh, okay, you know what? I need you to get back on them because you still have this parasite. So I put it back on it. I said, I want to see you in two weeks. I said, when you check your slide again. So she goes home, two weeks later, she comes back, take the slide again. She still has trichomonas, still has them. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. I said, how much do you have left? She goes, I'm almost done with it. You always ask them, how much of your supplement do you have left? And if they honestly tell you, they say only a little bit left, or, oh, almost a full bottle. You know whether they're taking them or not, whether they're compliant. So she said, oh, it's almost gone. I said, oh, okay. She says, you know what? I want to have you back in a week. Let me check him again. Headed back, continue the supplements. Still had it. I literally sat down next to her and I looked her in her eyes. I said, we need to have a conversation. It seems like you're doing everything you need to at home. I need to find out why you still have to take a Monat. I said, do you happen to have a pet? She said, well, I have a cat. I said, oh, okay. I said, you know, do you pet the cat? Do you touch their water bowls? Oh, yeah, of course I do. I said, okay, this is what you're going to do. Do you wash your hands after you touch the water bowl or the food bowl? Not really, no. I said, okay, you're going to do this. You're going to go home. Whatever you normally would use to disinfect or clean your counters, you're going to do that throughout your kitchen. Wherever the cat jumps up on, you're going to clean it. And this is pre-pandemic, so I'm not a big fan of using the hand sanitizer. But I told her, I said, I'm not a big fan, but I want you to go get some Purell or whatever hand sanitizer and put it next to every place you sit where you Touch the cat next to your couch, your chair, your bed, whatever. You can put hand sanitizer. So you're going to put your cat's bowls in the dishwasher or really hand wash them in hot water. And then every time you touch the water bowl or their food bowl, you're going to wash your hands. I said, even it's the water bowl, you think it's only water, but that cat's saliva is on there. Wash your hands. And what I'm going to do is I want to see you back in a week. Keep taking your supplements. Or was it two weeks? I think it was two weeks. I said, Keep taking your supplements. So she said, okay, I'll do it. She did that, came back two weeks later. Trichomonads were gone. Totally gone. She was getting it from Kitty. She was getting it from the cat. Because you don't think. 'Cause your pet, the cat, you know, sometimes they lick you and who knows what else they lick. You know, just touching the water bowl, if you touch the water bowl, it's only water. So you don't think to wash your hands and then you touch something else and then you can actually get it. So she was able to eradicate it just by washing her hands and not reinfecting herself. And you know that because you had the microscope slide.

Exactly. I wouldn't have known it.

Any other office, we would have just sent her on her way. Oh, you're done with your scalp and root planing. We'll see you in three months, four.

Months, whatever, and send her on her way. And that's why patients trust us because not only that they know we rooting for them, we care about them, but we have evidence showing that the therapy work. that their work that they put in, that they flossing, they're brushing, they do all of this supplement and instruction at home, and it's working for them, and they feel that. So nothing working more efficient than seeing and making huge impact when patients start referring and bringing their family members, their friends coming in because they are so in awe of what they see on that screen. Exactly.

And what happens is patients come in for their recare and they're like excited. Oh, I can't wait to see what's going on. I've been really good. I've been flossing and brushing. I can't wait to see. Or they'll be like, don't show me.

What'S on the slide.

I've been really bad. before they even open their mouth.

Because you get instant results. Because we know right away.

Often I would tease them. I said, you can't lie to me. Have you been flossing? Because I'm gonna know. I'm gonna see it. They're like, no, I've not. And so you have a relationship with your patient, so you know you can do that with. So it's lots of fun. And as a practitioner, when you are open to a world like this, it's like, why was I never taught this before? Why doesn't everybody practice like this? It's so exciting. to practice like this. I mean, I literally get goosebumps talking about it. It just doesn't make sense to me how we don't practice in a whole body sense. I know I've told you the story, but I feel the need to say it again is that my son was in nursing school. He was, I think, in anatomy, physiology, or one of these courses. And he comes home one day and he goes, Mom, real serious. Mom, the body is just so amazing. Every cell of the body knows what to do when it's programmed and how the cells talk to each other and how every organ of the body knows how to operate and how it works synergistically with every other organ in the body. And the body is so magical. And it's so true. We don't look at it that way. And the mouth is part of the body. News alert, it's attached. Everybody is treating the mouth as part of the whole system. And that's what we do in biological dentistry. That's why I love it so much because I really feel like a healthcare provider. I don't feel like a dental hygienist. I feel like a healthcare provider because I'm actually preventing disease. I'm treating disease. But prevention is always preferred over disease. That's why the microscope is so huge. I can catch things before it causes disease. You can't have a patient who has one, two, and three millimeter pockets. No pocketing, very little inflammation, almost no bleeding, nothing. You would say, oh, this is a great six-month appointment. And I take the slide and I find amoeba or I find spirochetes on the patient. I said, this is a great day. It's a great day. And they're like, how is it a great day? And I got this stuff. I said, it's a great day because I found it. I found it and I prevented you from having a disease. I prevented you from having bone loss. I prevented you from having gum detachment. I prevented you from having a systemic problem because that can cause systemic inflammation. I said, that's why it's a great day. I said, because now I have a solution for you that I can help you get and stay well. So that's why, okay, I need to calm down because I get a little bit too excited about it. It's just so weird to me. It's so real. It's like, how can we not practice like this?

And I know a lot of our listeners are hygienists and as a board member on the IBDM, you've been advocate and really contribute a lot to the certified biological hygienist program. Because both of my hygiene team members are certified biological hygienists. And so tell me a bit more about what if a hygienist wanted to look into this journey What do they need to do to get the certification to be a member of IBDM? What else do they get the support from? Because I know it's very limited information and guidance out there for hygienists when they're practicing this whole body health.

Well, it's very easy. You just go to our website and you can see the registration and become certified. You know, you need to become a member, but it is just so, so reasonably inexpensive. It's like nominal, next to nothing to become a member. and you sign up for this certification course, which is like 25 credits, 25 CE credits. Insane. And it costs next to nothing if you break it down for the amount of 25 credits for what it costs. And you get an amazing amount of information on meridians, on- Mucilaginous, Rick and I- Exactly, you know, capitation. There's so much information that it's beyond belief. You would never be able to aggregate all that information within a normal lifetime because everything's all in one place. And what's great about that is that each level of education, like mercury and root canal, things like that. Because as a biological hygienist, we're not just worried about the biofilm and the calculus, I have to pay attention to root canals or the mercury because that can be contributory to other things. So having that extra additional knowledge to be able to talk to our patients is crucial, especially with mercury, you know, with the mercury off-gassing and it causes mercurialism, it could be part of periodontal disease, why the patient's not healing periodontally. So learning all these modalities or all these things in biological dentistry, other than hygiene, is so crucial to become so well-rounded to be able to really help and instruct our patients. And what we also do is we have a mentoring program. When you finish with your certification, you take your tests, you get an interview with the hygiene committee chair. You know, I'm a little bit of a goof. I am science-minded, but I try to make it as fun and easy as possible. I met with your one hygienist about a week or two ago, and then I'm meeting another one on Monday night, you know, through Zoom. So we do a nice Zoom meeting, and I give them my email, my cell phone number, whatever they need, whatever help they need, whatever guidance. We're here to mentor. We're here to help you grow and become part of the family or the community. It's important that They understand that the hygienists are an integral part of the team. And unfortunately, some feel, well, it's a biological dentist and it's not so important that we involve the hygiene. We find it crucial to have our hygienists and our doctors have similar levels of information on the biological world. So we're always here to mentor. Any questions, we usually answer you pretty quickly. It's me and also Dr. Ewing, who is a brilliant brilliant. She's the executive director, but she started off as a hygienist. That's right. So she understands our world.

And she's super supportive. Extremely. Always going to get more to the hygiene community.

That's one thing about us is that our hygiene people, we've become a family and we want to help support you as much as possible and help you grow. Any questions we're there to help you answer. It's not one and done. It's like once you take your test, then you're done. Bye-bye. No, it's, we're always there. And at one point during the pandemic last year, we would have a zoom. Oh, seriously. zoom series. Well, we did our weekly webinars on different topics, but we also had a hygiene. We were doing a weekly hygiene zoom meetings with the hygienist, and we would go over the questions in the certification. So that way, any of the new certification attendees, they had questions, we were able to answer them. So we would review everything so they would be able to digest the information. So at some point, we're going to start doing like the zoom meetings again as part of like the hygiene department or committee and kind of really like bounce things off of each other. We do have a IBDM hygiene page too. We love the hygienists to be part of it again, getting more active in it. And if they're not, they need to join. That way we can actually collaborate on ideas. I had a patient that had this today. What would you do or really kind of help each other improve our patient care? And it's just fun. Like doctors, we like to have our own little clicky things fun too.

And my message for the public is, if you're looking for a biological practice, You cannot have a biological practice without the biological dentist, especially the certified one. And you cannot have a biological practice with a certified biological dentist without a certified biological hygienist.

We have to have the same mindset. Because again, it's not just a cleaning. It's a mindset. We have to be able to collaboratively work with the doctor and the doctor work with the hygiene team. Example, other than Perio, if I have a patient, that has a root canal or has large amalgams, I know without even her telling me, I'm going to start talking to that patient about the dangers and how we really need to take care of that and why and how and give them all the information. So by the time the doctor's exam is ready to come, the patient's already ready to ask questions or are ready to go ahead. So it's about that teamwork, helping getting that patient healthy for the large restorative case and Me helping the patient understand the need for the treatment and why it's necessary, not just because you need a cap on the tooth. You need a cap on the tooth because really having that in-depth conversation. So it's important that you work together and have that same understanding.

And if you are listening to the podcast, watching this on our YouTube channel, and then you want to learn more about biological hygiene, where can they follow you on social media?

That's a good question because I'm not very active and I need to get more active for sure. I have Instagram page, Hygiene Naturally, which I have not been active on. So now she's going to force me to be active on it. And I do have also Hygiene Naturally Facebook page. Now I guess that's my project for this weekend is start getting stuff up on there. So but yeah, Hygiene Naturally is those two pages.

If you are doctors and dentists that listen to this podcast and this episode, and if you want to grow your hygiene departments or get more information on how to train your hygiene on whole body health and biological hygiene. Reach out to friends, reach out to me so we can get you on the next hands-on training. Frances have the online training for hygiene, the community support for hygiene, the members IBDM, but also she provide hands-on training for hygiene that really want to see in action. Really want to see how employment lay out with the whole from beginning to the end. And we encourage our public really look into the practice technology where they have saliva testing, where they have microscope, where the hygienes are going through or been certified through the process. So you know that you get the best care possible.

And that's another thing about the IBDM. If the doctor is certified, that shows definitively that they have gone through all the extensive training, especially with, I think if you go on the website, you have to be certified member. which means that you have had the training and you've passed the exams and you've had the interviews because it's not like a one and done type of a thing. It's like you have to show that you are proficient and that you follow up and that you are actually doing it.

Yeah, we take the public trust very seriously.

Exactly.

Very seriously. And we want to make sure that every single provider that listed on the website are qualified to take care of you, that understand the philosophy and stand for biological dentistry community.

Exactly.

So Francis, it's such an amazing honor to have you on the show. I know everyone gets jealous when I get a podcast guest in the house. You got to be able to sit across from each other, have a conversation. Appreciate your visiting Katy, Texas today.

It's been my pleasure.

And I know we're going to see Francis back really soon and hopefully get Francis back on our podcast again and talk more about biological hygiene and saving lives one mile at a time.

Absolutely.

And remember, if you don't make time for wellness, you will be forced to make time for illness. Take care of your mouth. You cannot have a healthy body without a healthy mouth. Bye.

Thanks for listening to the Wellness Dentist Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please rate and review, and remember, there's always a reason to smile.