A Simple Diet Experiment That May Solve Most Of Your Health Issues with Lisa Dreher

Coming up on this episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy.

That's what I help people with is how do you do this in a way that we can really identify which foods might you need to stay off of a little bit longer, but as we're working to heal the gut, as we talked about before, how can we bring these foods back in so that you can start having more variety and more diversity?

Hey everyone, it's Dr. Hyman here. Now so many of my patients ask me how I manage to work multiple jobs, travel frequently, well not so much anymore, and spend time with my family and still focus on my health. I know it can seem hard to eat well when you've got a lot going on, but the trick is to never let yourself get into a food emergency and to stay stocked up with the right things to support your goals. So, when I keep nourishing snacks and the right supplements to optimize my health at home and at my office, I know I'm helping myself make good choices in the future. Recently, I discovered Paleo Valley Beef Sticks. I keep these beef sticks at home and at the office so I know that whenever I'm in a food emergency, I have a healthy and delicious option to keep me on track. It's no secret that I have high standards when it comes to what I put in my body, and Paleo Valley Beef Sticks checks all the boxes. They're gluten-free, grain-free, dairy-free, soy-free, and non-GMO. 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I definitely recommend stocking up on the grass-fed beef sticks to keep in your house, in your car, and in your office. It's one of my favorite tricks to staying healthy while on the go. All right, now let's get back to this week's episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy. Welcome to the Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman, and that's Pharmacy with an F, F-A-R-M-A-C-Y, a place for conversations that matter. And if you think food might be messing with your health and making you sick, you better listen to this podcast, 'cause it's with none other than our nutritionist here at the Ultra Wellness Center, Lisa Drayer, on our new episodes of House Call, which is a special Doctors Pharmacy series of episodes that are focused on real problems with real people that have real solutions using the power of functional medicine. Lisa is one of our key nutritionists here and she is just an extraordinary young lady. She's a registered dietitian, maybe she's not so young, but I don't know, she looks young to me. Everybody's young, I'm six years old. She got her undergraduate degree in nutrition at Rochester Institute of Technology. She did her dietetic internship at Cornell University, which is my alma mater. She's worked in to care hospital settings. She's a clinical nutrition specialist and worked in pediatric GI. She also got her master's degree in nutrition and integrative health from the Maryland University of Integrative Health and has been practicing with us here since 2015 and is also certified in functional medicine through the Institute for Functional Medicine and has lectured all over the place, has been showcased in national magazines like Reader's Digest on NPR. and featured in the Broken Brain 2 series, she's also developed Digestive Health and Gut Microbiome Training for Dietitians. So she is just on it. And we are so lucky to have her here because we're gonna talk about something today, which you might not have heard about, but is probably the most important tool to treat disease. Now, I always say if I were stranded on a desert island or a deserted island, and I only had one drug or tool to bring with me as a doctor to treat my patients, what would it be? It would be an elimination diet, which I don't really like the term because it sounds like you're depriving yourself. It's actually an addition diet because you're adding on all the good things and you're taking out the bad things. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about all the various ways in which food can influence our health from the perspective of allergy intolerance and sensitivity. So, we know that there's foods that help promote well-being and health and blood sugar and so forth. But there's a whole other set of ways in which food interacts with your biology that creates inflammation and that creates chronic symptoms. And then it's not typically like oh well it's just eat this bad sugar or bread or whatever. It's much more nuanced than that. And I think it's an incredible subject that we haven't really taken a deep dive into, but it really, for me, in understanding the role of food as medicine is really the kingpin of treatment in functional medicine is using food as medicine, not just eat healthy food, don't eat unhealthy food, but very specifically understanding what people's unique needs are and what particular foods for them are causing a problem and why. So Lisa, tell us a little bit about your first sort of understanding of the elimination diet. And as a dietitian, it's probably not something you really learned much about, except maybe as an elemental diet and someone's got Crohn's disease. But what was a light bulb moment for you when you went, wait a minute, this is a game changer when it comes to dealing with chronic disease?

Yeah, well thank you for the introduction, Mark. It is great to be here. And no, it's true. I learned a little bit about it in school. But when it comes to how powerful removing certain foods are and adding certain foods in, it's very, I only learned that once I actually got to here, got to learn more about functional medicine, learn more about integrative health.

Here at the Ultra Wellness Center.

At the Ultra Wellness Center. And there are many different ways that a person can react to foods. It's not just, as you said, sugar causes inflammation. We know that. But there are these nuances that there are a few different ways I'd like to talk about, first being, probably the most obvious one, which is allergies. So there's something called immunoglobulins, and these are antibodies that they're designed to protect us against invaders, whether that be in the environment, food, I mean, it goes into our digestive tract, and that is our first line of defense. So if we have certain invaders or the body perceives them as invaders, we need to be protected. So there are these immunoglobulins, and when we think about allergies, We think more about like a peanut allergy or a cow's milk allergy.

And this is more- Strawberry or shellfish or something where you blow up and.

You get your tongue swells. Those like top eight allergens. And those are immunoglobulin E or IgE reactions. So these you think of, you know, sort of immediate reactions. You think of hives, you think of swelling of the lips, the tongue, more extreme reaction would be anaphylaxis. Yeah, you could die. You could die. It's a very life-threatening potentially condition. So that happens pretty immediate. People realize that they have that pretty quickly. But there are these other-- yeah, I.

Was gonna do a quick story about it reminded me of this patient I had when I was an intern. I was in the emergency room and this guy came driving up to the front of the emergency room and we heard this horn going, this non-stop, like someone's had their hand on the horn, except he didn't have his hand on the horn. He had his head on the horn and he had literally died and his face was in the horn and he drove himself to the emergency room. We brought him in, he was a young guy, we threw him on a stretcher, we put in epinephrine, we put in steroids, we shocked his heart, we brought him back to life, did all the great fun things that we do in medicine. And then we said, what happened? He says, well, I'm allergic to fish. And my friend was cooking fish and I was in his apartment and I smelled the fish.

That's all it took.

I didn't even eat the fish. And I noticed I started to react and I'm two miles away from the hospital. I figured if I waited for the ambulance, I'd be dead. So he jumped in his car, drove there, and it's that level of reaction. That's a true allergy. But when we in functional medicine deal with allergies, we're mostly talking about something quite different, which is a different kind of food reactions. There's a lot of ways your body reacts to food. That's only one of them. And it's not one of the most common ones.

No. More common are intolerances and sensitivities. So intolerance, this is a non-immune reaction. So the IgE is an immune reaction. Intolerance, a lot of people might think, okay, lactose intolerance, even fructose intolerance or histamine intolerance or intolerance to sugar alcohols, these compounds that are poorly digested and absorbed and can lead to symptoms such.

As abdominal pain, diarrhea, headaches, and nausea. Yeah, you eat ice cream and you.

Get gas, your stomach blows up, you feel bad, you get diarrhea. That's not an allergy. Right, that's not an allergy. and it's a little bit different than a sensitivity, which I'll explain. But these are a little bit easier to pick up on. The symptoms usually show up within an hour or so after eating the food, like you said, eat milk, drink milk, then you're in the bathroom not too long after.

And there are also these things like other reactions that are not even related to intolerance, like for example MSG or aspartame, which are these excitotoxins. So these are compounds that do have reactions in the body that are not really immune related, they're more related to the the neurological effects of the amino acid like compounds that can alter your brain function, your headaches or make you hyperactive.

Yeah, all that. Yeah, yes, exactly.

Migraines.

So there's that whole series and then I would argue probably the most common but the hardest to pick up on are the food sensitivities. So going back to the IgE reactions, these food sensitivities are IgG and IgA. So just a different way that the body reacts. In fact, IgGs are the most common antibodies in the body.

These are delayed. Delayed, you know, You're gonna know in 3 minutes.

Yes.

If you eat, you know, let's say you have, you're allergic to like, I don't know, like, I don't know.

It could be gluten.

It could be gluten. Or maybe it's, you know, any eggplant.

Right.

And you feel sick three days later. Mm-. It takes 3 days. You're not gonna know that it's an eggplant. It could be hours or days. It could be hours or days later.

So you're not always gonna connect the dots. Right. And unless you're writing down everything you eat, I know if you ask me, what did you eat two days ago? Unless you're eating the same thing every day, it's going to be very hard.

To-- I ate an artichoke.

I ate an artichoke with some sauerkraut. So, no, it's very hard. So if you have these, the other thing that makes it difficult too to pick up on this is the symptoms range so broadly. So it's not like, oh, I'm going to have hives and swelling of the lips. It could be anything from brain fog, hyperactivity, it could be depression, anxiety. Could be weight gain, could be FLC syndrome. Feel like crap, right? And it could be anything else. Sleep.

Depression, mood changes. It's so much, right?

Eczema. Eczema, yes.

So much. Hormonal changes, menstrual issues. I mean stuff like that. Joint pain, aching.

And so a lot of people don't associate so many of these symptoms with the food that they've eaten.

Sinus issues, allergies.

Absolutely. Changes, it could be GI, it could be changes to the bowels, it could be constipation, diarrhea, abdominal pain, but again, it's not so acute. So it's difficult to recognize which foods are associated with that. And we do check here at the Ultra Wellness Center, we do have testing to check for these IgG, IgA antibodies, but there's no one test that's perfect. There's no one test that checks every way that a food can interact with somebody or cause these symptoms. which is really why the elimination diet continues to be the gold standard. And that's what we do pretty much with all of our patients.

Yeah, there's even another response, because what you're talking about is antibody responses that the body creates. And antibodies are sort of like smart bombs. They're specific, right? So you've got an antibody to dairy or an antibody to eggs or an antibody to chicken, corn, whatever. But there's another part of your immune system. It's the ancient immune system. It's your primitive immune system. like we call it your innate or cell-mediated immune system. And that creates a sort of a general response. And you can't measure that. And it just creates this just generalized inflammation. And it can be to anything. And also gluten is commonly causing this type of innate immune response, which is really hard to measure. So even if you check for gluten antibodies or celiac, you'll miss it.

You may not pick it up. Right, exactly. No, that's very true. And there are many reasons why we can have these types because we're always thinking in functional medicine, why? Why is this happening?

Yeah, so why do people get these weird sensitivities? Because it seems like odd that we would be reacting to all these foods that we should be eating and they're actually probably even good for us. Right. Why would you be reacting to an egg?

Yes.

Or, you know, kidney beans.

Or strawberries, like you said.

Strawberries.

It's like they're good for you. Functional food. Right, well there are a number of different reasons. And I would say in relation to sensitivities specifically, number one, you think about what's the variety in our diet? Our diets are becoming less and less varied. Okay, I don't even need to, you know, preach to the choir here, but just with subsidies and just all of the foods, it's like you go into the supermarket and they're all made with the same like five basic ingredients.

Yeah, 90% of our diet is 12 plants and 60% of our diet is three plants, wheat, Corn, soy, and rice, depending on where you're from.

Exactly. So the lack of variety really, really is a problem, but also if you're eating a high quantity of certain foods, let's say it is eggs, which eggs are a wonderful food, very high in nutrient density, but they're a higher allergenic potential food. So if you're eating multiple eggs every day, and I talk to people who do this, because they love it and it's easy and it's quick, But eventually, with enough exposure, those proteins can start to become what the body interprets as an invader. So it can begin to develop a sensitivity if there's not enough variety and rotation in the diet. But then you also have to think about the gut microbiome. How balanced is it? Do we have dysbiosis or lack of balance of gut bacteria? And how can that be influencing the inflammation in our gut, the integrity of the lining of our gut? All the things that can lead to leaky gut or intestinal permeability, herbicides, pesticides, overuse of medications, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, antibiotics, I mean, the list goes on and we're.

All bombarded with this all the time. Okay, you just said something really important, Lisa. You said leaky gut. Leaky gut. So I wanna backpedal on that. Yes.

What is leaky gut and why should I care? Okay, I love explaining this. It's like, you can really get the visual because our gut, Really, there's-- It.

Sounds kind of messy, actually. I don't know. I don't know if I want the visual on this one.

I'll make it. I won't get too crazy with it. So, what we eat-- There might be children listening. What we eat and what we drink, we want those things, especially what we eat, to break down to their basic molecules. We want the vitamins, the minerals, the amino acids, all these things that our body needs to be absorbed, and we need everything else to get excreted in the stool, urine, all that.

It was like a big filter.

It's a filter, exactly. It's a protector, which is why 70 to 80% of our immune system is in the lining of our gut because so much goes through there. So there's one, there's basically one cell thick that helps protect us between whatever is in there, all the toxins and-.

It's like a sewer.

Yes, it is a sewer, right? And everything else that gets absorbed, there's this one cell lining that we need to be, you know, we want those cells to be tight together. Unless we give that, unless we're in a place where those foods are completely broken down and then those gaps can open up a little bit, allow some of the amino acids and all the vitamins and minerals to go through, we absorb them and we utilize them in a perfect world. But all these things we're talking about, herbicides, pesticides, medications, all that and certain foods can actually cause gaps to form in between the cells inappropriately and allow larger protein molecules from our food as well as bacteria, viruses, all the things that are in our gut to start leaking through into our circulatory system, into our blood where it shouldn't be, and then our body sees that as an invader because technically it is. It shouldn't be there. It should be in our gut. And so there's that in and of.

Itself is leaky gut. I think it's like so your gut lining is a coffee filter, right?

Yeah.

So you want the coffee, you know, it's good stuff to go through the coffee filter, but you don't want the grounds in your coffee. Exactly. So if the holes are too big, The holes are too big, then all this coffee grounds end up in your coffee, it's not so great. And the reason the lining is there is to allow the right stuff through and to keep the bad stuff out. And what happens with all the things you're talking about are processed diet, pesticides, glyphosate for example, which destroys our microbiome, and the overuse of medications, stress, all these various things cause damage to the gut. if you look at the microbiome of some indigenous cultures or people who are living more traditional lives and diets, their microbiomes are incredibly diverse, incredibly healthy, and they don't have allergies, they don't have asthma, they don't have autoimmune disease, they don't have sinus problems, they don't have eczema, they don't have any of these problems because their guts are different and their microbiome is very diverse. It's like a rainforest instead of a monocrop soybean field. And I think that's what we're facing in this country, a devastation of our microbiome. We're worried about the rainforest. We got a rainforest inside us.

Exactly.

We should be worried about that. Yes. And how do we restore that? How do we plant the good trees in there? And I think the whole concept of these food sensitivities is being completely neglected in traditional medicine. It's thought as quackery. The tests are challenging, they can be helpful, but they're not like a perfect test, right? So often, for example, I just had a patient yesterday, who we did a test on five years ago. She had 26 different foods that she was reacting to. It doesn't mean she's allergic to 20 different foods, but she had a terrible gut. She had giardia, she had terrible bloating, she had irritable bowel, she had all these issues. We fixed her gut and her reactions went down to nine. And in fact, not only did they go down nine, but they were very, very low levels of reaction. And they were only to the things that we knew she was really reactive, like gluten. so it's rye, barley, oats, you know, those are the ones that she was reacting to. So out of the nine, five of them were like gluten grains, which we knew anyway. So I think the key is you can heal a leaky gut. And if you were allergic to peanuts, you probably want to stay away from peanuts forever. There may be new treatments and so forth that we can modify that, but you don't want to mess with that. If you're sensitive to a food, it doesn't mean that you need to stay away from it forever. You need to fix the cause. And that's what functional medicine really is focused on.

Absolutely. And I think another point of what you're saying is we're trying to increase and improve the resilience of the body. So the goal is to not keep those foods out that we see on these sensitivities or if you're doing some kind of comprehensive elimination diet, we're not trying to keep those foods out for the next 10 years of your life. We're trying to heal and seal the lining of the gut, help improve the microbiome to the point where you can then be more varied with your diet. Expose yourself to new foods that before perhaps were giving you a problem but won't be as much of an issue down the road. So yes, I think that's a very good point.

Yeah, and it's so key. And so it's not just about getting rid of the foods. It's about figuring out why the gut is a mess. And what can you add to help heal it?

Add to heal it.

So it's not just about what you take out. That's why we should call it an addition diet instead of elimination diet.

I know, I really, I don't know with you.

It's bad marketing. I think we should come up with a better name for it.

Yes, I don't like the elimination part. That's one thing. There are two things I really like to emphasize with my patients, and one is it's not just about what you can't eat. I know it's easy, and it's very natural to see this list of foods, whether it's a short list or a comprehensive elimination diet where we have a ton of foods that we take out like corn, soy, wheat, gluten, dairy, all these things. And then they're left thinking, well, what? What can I eat? Well, the reality is there's a lot more you can eat than you can't eat in this situation. But it's so easy because food isn't just calories and fat and protein. It's also what connects us. It's part of the community and emotional connection we have. So if you're used to eating these foods all the time, it's a big shock to some people. So then that's all they can see, is what they can't eat.

But it's really... You're taking away my cheese.

I've got a story about that. Wait, yeah, exactly. But it's also about what you can add in, not only in terms of whole foods that are rich in polyphenols, these things that protect and heal the lining of the gut, but it's like getting more diversity in your diet, learning how to get into the kitchen, cook with all these different flavors and textures, sort of like reconnect- Spices. With foods, exactly, that are actively healing, but you're also enjoying.

Yeah, I was joking about the, the artichoke, but that's a great prebiotic food. I eat them every week, multiple times a week. And it's so delicious. I dip them in extra virgin olive oil, balsamic vinegar, which also helps your gut. Exactly. Polyphenols. Right.

And so it's really fun.

It can be fun. And then you get to add stuff back, right? Right.

And that's so important. And that's what people don't realize. And a lot of people come to me and either they've already tried an elimination diet, let's say they've done gluten and dairy free. My first question always is, did you have any help? Did you do this on your own? Did you go online? Did you find something? Or did you have a professional who knows how to guide you through this? First question, second question is, how do you reintroduce? What do you do? Well, you know, I went and had a pizza.

I had a pizza. Well, that's like, you know, three or.

Four different- All these things. And we're not even talking about good quality gluten. We're talking about white flour.

Right. So, that's why this patient went, she had rheumatoid arthritis. and she was overweight and she really was struggling. And she was, you know, tested gluten. She was definitely tested for gluten sensitivity, and she had elevated antibodies. And I said, you really can't be eating any gluten. And she's like, well, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm like, well, let's do an experiment. Let's put you on a, at the point at that time was just a, we call it an ultra clear fast. So for 10 days, all she did was this. rice protein shake, which is hyperallergenic, and that was it. All of her symptoms went away. She dropped a ton of weight and she realized there was gluten in her diet and it was hidden. It could be in soy milk that you're having. It could be in all kinds of dressings and stuff that you, and it's got all these names that you wouldn't even know.

It's like sugar.

And then in processed food, there's something called microbial transglutaminase. So gluten is what is often used to make things stick together. It's like glue, right?

Right.

If you ever made flour or bread, it's like that sticky thing. And it makes processed foods stick together. And so they have bacteria make these actually bacterial versions of gluten, essentially, that then they put in food and it doesn't have to be on the label. So pretty much if you're eating any package or processed food, you don't know what you're eating. And so I think, and people are, really, really sensitive. Even a fly by, you know, if they're eating out of a grill that somebody cooked something on was breaded. Cross-contamination. You're going to get it. So I think, you know, I did that and then I saw her a few months later and I was like, what happened to you? She lost 40 pounds. She, like, all of her symptoms went away. So I think people have to understand, like, it's, you know, oh, I just had like a little bit. Right.

And for some things that, you know, may not be a big deal, but if you have a little bit of gluten, even a thumbnail full in three months, you're back to square one. Yeah. It's tough. And in terms of gluten, there are so many people, I'm sure you've had this experience too, where people will go over to Europe and have the gluten there and they won't react as much. And for some people, that is the case. For some people, they just have to keep it out entirely no matter where they are. But I think there are two major reasons why. Number one, in this country, we've hybridized and basically genetically modified wheat to have double the amount of gluten because of exactly what you're saying, that stickiness. We like the texture, we like it's just trying to make it more, palatable.

You- don't want those giant- bagels instead of little ones.

And then also we spray wheat with herbicides, pesticides, all these things and the combination of the excess gluten with all of these chemicals, just it's a perfect storm for our gut and leaky gut and dysbiosis and then all of the other symptoms that come from that. And that I think of joint pain, I think of headaches, I think of, you know, ADHD, I think of a lot of things that are associated with that sensitivity.

Specifically. Yeah, I mean, the gluten story is really interesting because, you know, it's like, you watch these movies, like, hey, I'm gluten free.

It's like, what's that?

It's like, I don't know, but everybody's doing it. It must be good, right? Yep, all those, yep, I've seen them. Exactly. And it's sort of become this cultural meme. Most people don't even know what gluten is, but it's a protein that's in wheat that can be very inflammatory. And the modern wheat has much more of these gluten proteins. And tell us why gluten is, of all foods, is so critical in terms of driving this leaky gut. and leading not only to gluten sensitivity, but to all these other sensitivities that sort of follow on, that are like hangers on to the gluten.

Exactly. Well, there's one thing that I will say in terms of when you eat gluten, that's one of the major drivers of something called zonulin. And zonulin was discovered and found to actually drive leaky gut. So, to give signals to the lining of the gut to open up and make those gaps so that things fall through. So it actually is one of the major drivers of leaky gut for that reason. And as I said, basically, that is.

A natural molecule in our bodies. It's designed to take care of things, for example, if you get cholera. I mean, sometimes it's good to have a leaky gut.

Right.

But gluten tends to trigger this, according to Dr. Alessio Fasano, who's the world's expert in gluten at Harvard.

Yes.

That it triggers some degree of increase in zonulin in everybody, which can trigger some degree of leaky gut in everybody. Now, some people do fine and they're okay with it and they're really healthy and it doesn't matter. But if you're looking to dramatically reduce inflammation, making gluten a staple in your diet is not a great idea, particularly modern wheat. So, if you want to eat ancient spelt or einkorn or einkorn wheat or Kernza wheat or certain rye, those might be better tolerated.

Belt, especially those that have been sourdough, where the traditional way of actually creating and making bread. Actually, Dr. Fasano said, here we have.

These fast rising breads, one hour, boom, two hours. He said, in Europe, it's 12 hours, 18 hours, 24 hours, they make their bread rise. It actually creates a very different process in the wheat that breaks down some of the gluten and creates less reactivity. There's a lot of explanations.

Absolutely. So yeah, eventually, no matter who you are, and I think he said this, Dr. Sano said, regardless of your predisposition to gluten sensitivity, celiac disease, if you have gluten in your diet long enough and in large enough quantities, you were going to lose. It's the human that's going to lose, it's the gluten that's going to win.

And basically, if anybody has any chronic disease or any inflammatory problem, pretty much anything that, you know, it's sort of like, for me, it's like getting someone's blood pressure, checking to see if they're reactive to gluten is like checking their blood pressure. And that's the standard here. It is because partly because we see people who have seen everybody else and done everything else and gone everywhere and have come here because nothing else is working. But it also is so common and it's so missed and it's so misdiagnosed. And so we have different diagnostic tests that can help us look at different gluten antibodies, look at zonulin antibodies. We have very sophisticated ways of looking at this. And I think for people who are struggling, it's very helpful. then you can actually implement a program of a diet to eliminate the foods that are reactive. Yeah, specific to them. So you can do testing or you can just do an elimination diet, but I'd love you to share some stories of some patients we've had here at the Ultra Wellness Center who struggled and tell me what was going on with them and how did this approach impact them.

Yeah, so one comes to mind, I would love to share. So, it was a 47-year-old woman who came with constipation. She was pooping maybe twice a week. I'm like, We gotta get you pooping twice a day. Twice a week. So constipation.

Oh yeah, that reminds me of a patient I had. I said, so how are your bowels? She says, Oh, they're regular.

I said, How did you go?

She goes, Once a week. I said, that's not regular.

She says, It's regular for me.

I go every week. I'm like, Exactly. One woman said, It's painful.

She says, Dr. Hyman, I didn't know it was normal. Like I thought going every day was like a whole thing. That's normal to them. That's what they think is normal. This person had constipation, at least she recognized that it was constipation. She had joint pains, but she had sinus, these recurring sinus infections that would happen every year, once or twice a year. So when I hear constipation, when I hear sinus congestion and inflammation in general, I think of dairy, dairy products. And when I hear joint pain, I think of gluten. Sure, it could be a lot of other foods, but we thought, okay, let's start off with gluten and dairy free.

Of course sugar free and preservative and processed free. Processed free. Gluten, dairy, sugar, and processed food, 90%.

Of the time, that's all you need. Exactly, exactly. So at first she sounded like she was on board. I just kind of gave her the overview. And then it was like a light bulb just went off.

So she grabbed, yeah, I told her.

I had to take away your cheese. Grabbed, yes. She's like, are you telling me that I have to give up my cheese? So when I told her, I said, well, unfortunately, yes. And I thought it was just gonna be like a little back and forth. started sobbing. I mean sobbing. I had to give her the tissues. And I said, you know what? This is the first time I'm really seeing in real time the power of food addiction. And I said, I let her finish, obviously I didn't interrupt her, but I said, have you ever heard of casomorphins before or gluteomorphins and these opioid-like peptides that cross the blood-brain barrier and can actually not only influence you neurologically, but cause you to feel addicted to these foods. Like you need to have more. She's like, no, I haven't heard of it, but it sounds like me. And I was just kind of nervous. I wasn't sure if she was really gonna be on board, 'cause she, again, I'd never seen something so reactive before. Four weeks later, she comes back. I'm like, how'd she do? Different person, different person entirely. Even the way she spoke was more clear. She sounded more confident. There wasn't something holding her back. She was pooping five times a week, her joint pain went away, but she was like, the most remarkable thing about this is not just the fact that I was able to give up cheese, but the fact that I don't have any cravings for it anymore. I don't need it, I don't even want it. Because I can't believe something had such a tight hold over me.

Well, you know, you mentioned these caseinomorphins, and this is a real thing.

Real.

That we actually test for at the UltraWellness Center. We use urine testing, and we can see both gluten and dairy. they do react with the basically heroin receptors in your brain and the opioid receptors in your brain and they create this pleasure but they also are highly addictive. And it's not that it happens in everybody but it's not that uncommon. It's more common in autistic kids and others. So really very great story because people often don't connect the dots and when you give people a chance to stop the foods that are problematic and add in the good foods. Then their body is going to tell them. They don't need you or me or a doctor or anybody else to tell them what works. They see the difference. Their sinuses clear up, their headaches go away, their skin clears up, they feel better, right? Their digestion improves. Exactly. So I think that's a great case. And you had another case of a young man with depression and anxiety and acne.

Yeah, he was 20 years old. It was very, very sad. The depression was debilitating for him for many years. Anxiety, as you said, acne, cystic acne. And so he was a bit more complicated. He had been struggling for a while. So we did a comprehensive elimination diet. So we took out all the heavy hitters, of course, like we said before, all the processed foods, but corn, soy, even shellfish and tree nuts. And we took out major alcohol, caffeine, all of that. And that's the diet where people are like, what should I be eating then if I have to give up all these foods? What am I going to eat? I know, what am I going to eat? What the heck should I eat? That's like your book.

My food group is pizza.

All the things you can't eat. It's devastating. But number one, that's why it's so important to work with somebody that you can have guidance, you have ideas for meals, snacks, and that's what every patient walks away with is a very individualized meal plan that provides what should they be eating and recipes, resources, all that. But so going back to this case, we knew that it was going to be a little bit longer term. I knew that he was going to feel better to some degree, but I thought it was going to take a little bit longer. So after four weeks, which is a typical amount of time between when somebody first comes to see me and the follow-up, he started to feel a clarity that he hadn't had in a while. He still had the depression, he still had the anxiety, the acne was still there, but he said, I feel well enough that I'm motivated and I want to keep doing this. And that was going to be my recommendation anyway. So I was like, okay, great, we're.

On the same page. Another month goes by. It doesn't take a long time. It's not like you do this for six months and see how you feel.

No.

Literally, the first few days are hard because you want to withdraw. And then after three or four days, by day five, six, seven, you start to see such dramatic changes.

Exactly. It's pretty remarkable. Yep. that I would least expect to be on board with these types of diets are the ones that do the best, to be honest with you. And so after a month, he said, okay, I've got this clarity. I do want to continue on. The second month, the acne was next to gone. It was so consistent.

Consistent acne is a big deal. It's like a big giant welts on your face.

It really was devastating his confidence. And so that was very clear. Then by the third month, He was in much better spirits. He was having much more awareness of his, just his emotional reaction to things. Depression was much less overwhelming. And so we started to do the reintroduction process, because that is so important. People don't realize how important it is to do the reintroduction process in a structured way, not just throw in like.

Okay, I'm going to just eat a pizza.

Okay, 10 days are over, boom, I'm going to like live it up. No, we can't do that. We have to be very structured. And that's what I help people with is how do you do this in a way that we can really identify which foods might you need to stay off of a little bit longer. But as we're working to heal the gut, as we talked about before, how can we bring these foods back in so that you can start having more variety and more diversity? So with him, by the third month, we reintroduced one food at a time. It usually takes about three days each food. We found that his, when he had cow's milk and gluten and I think it was corn, those three triggered his symptoms to get worse. So we kept those out, but he was able to have a variety of pretty much all the other foods. We're talking Whole Foods here. We're not like, oh yeah, try reintroducing MSG. We're not going to do that, but we're talking about Whole Foods. And it was remarkable to see the difference and to watch him be able.

To eat these foods again without problem. Yeah, it's pretty amazing when you see this. That's why I say, if I had one tool to use on a deserted island as a doctor, it would be this. It's usually the place I start. It's really what I've written about in so many of my books, whether it's a 10-day detox diet or food choices and all that. Yeah, all those things are really just understanding that food is driving so much inflammation and inflammation is causing most of our chronic diseases that affect six out of 10 Americans and also driving weight gain. People don't understand that if you have a food sensitivity, you could be eating the right foods, but you may be just not able to lose weight because of the inflammation. And then also you mentioned mental health. We don't think of depression or anxiety or OCD or, ADD being related to food sensitivities, but they often are. So a lot of the problems that we see are really, really driven by this problem of an imbalance in our ability to tolerate the foods that we should be eating. And of course, nobody should be eating processed food and junk food, but even if you're eating good food, if you could have dairy could be okay, right? Corn should be okay, but some people just real eggs should be okay. I had a patient that had debilitating migraines for decades. Turned out she had a very high reaction to eggs. Got off the eggs and her migraines were gone. So sometimes it's super simple. And so just, you know, I figure people can do anything for 10 days, a couple of weeks. And if you try it, if you've never done it in your life, it's worth a try because, you know, you can really see a radical change very quickly. And we've created a program called the 10-day reset and you can go to get pharmacy with an F getpharmacy.com and learn about the 10-day reset, which is a powerful self-guided and you can join the group and also get support if you want, but program that allows you to do an elimination diet. And of course, the Ultra Wellness Center here, we're to help you. We have nutrition only consults and we have incredible team of nutritionists and dieticians here who've been working in this space for a long time and are leaders in the field. And, you know, it sometimes is more nuanced than just taking out their foods. There's, there's, you know, depending on the person, you might have bacterial overgrowth in your gut and bad bugs growing, so you have to eliminate all the fermentable foods. Or you might have histamine intolerance, or you might have, you know, fructose intolerance. So we're very good at diagnosing, you know, those things which are unique to you being a problem. Individual. Individual. And when you do, it's just, it's like the, it's like a miracle. Except it's not really a miracle. It's just good science and it's good medicine. It's what we should all be doing. Seems like America, but still, you know, this whole area of food sensitivities, unfortunately, is something that traditional medicine is just a total blind spot to. And maybe because they don't like the testing, and I don't think the testing is a foolproof system. You're looking for patterns. So when I see 26 foods, I'm like, she's not allergic to 26 foods. She's got a leaky gut. Let me fix her gut. And then here we are. And she's not only is she looking better on paper, but all of her chronic fatigue symptoms are gone. She feels better. She's doing so much better. So at the Ultra Wellness Center here, we are really focused on getting to the root of people's problems. And we're now seeing people virtually come virtually and visit us and consult with us. We're happy to see you. We're also running a Eliminate to Feel Great. Maybe we should change the Eliminate. We gotta figure out a better marketing for this elimination diet. The Healing Diet or something like that. They're gonna be done by Zoom. It'll be led by one of our nutritionists who's gonna guide the group through an elimination and reintroduction process. You can look at the UltraWellness Center website, call our office at the UltraWellness Center, check on our Facebook page for the exact date. It's gonna be five weeks long. It's gonna be fabulous. If you've never done it, it's great to do it with a group because then you feel like you can compare notes, you get the support. And it's a pretty remarkable strategy for creating healing. And Lisa, I am so excited for you having your first appearance here on the Dr. Shawn Stevenson podcast. Hope many more. And I think, you know, we're just really glad and gifted to have you here and teaching. teaching us about nutrition and working with our patients.

So thank you so much.

Thank you. The honor is mine. Thank you. And if you've been listening to this podcast and you loved it, please share it with your friends and family on social media. Leave a comment. We'd love to hear from you. Maybe your experiences with elimination diets and what's that's done for you.

And subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And we'll see you next time on the Doctor's Pharmacy.

Thank you, Mark. Hey, everybody, it's Dr. Hyman. Thanks for tuning in to the Doctor's Pharmacy. I hope you're loving this podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do and introducing you all the experts that I know and I love and that I've learned so much from. And I want to tell you about something else I'm doing, which is called Mark's Picks. It's my weekly newsletter, and in it I share my favorite stuff from foods to supplements to gadgets to tools to enhance your health. It's all the cool stuff that I use and that my team uses to optimize and enhance our health. And I'd love you to sign up for the weekly newsletter. I'll only send it to you once a week on Fridays. Nothing else, I promise. And all you have to do is go to DrHyman.com/picks to sign up. That's DrHyman.com/picks, P-I-C-K-S, and sign up for the newsletter and I'll share with you my favorite stuff that I use to enhance my health. and get healthier and better and live younger longer. Now back to this week's episode. Hi everyone. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their find a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Don't forget, there's a way to listen completely ad free with Hyman plus on Apple podcasts. You can enjoy every episode without any breaks. Just open Apple podcasts and tap try free to start your seven day free trial.