The Science Of Quantum Healing: Living A Longer, Healthier, More Vital Life with Deepak Chopra

Coming up on this week's episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy.

If your internal dialogue is, I don't have time, then your biological clock will speed up. You'll have a faster heart rate. You'll have low heart rate variability. Your platelets will be jittery and your.

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And now let's get back to this week's episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy. [Speaking of] Welcome to the Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman, and this is a place for conversations that matter. Now, my conversation today is with Deepak Chopra, who has been an inspiration and friend to me for decades and to millions around the world. And if you're interested in stepping out of our Western paradigm of how we view and experience aging and disease, you're going to find this to be a fascinating and mind expanding conversation. Deepak is the founder of the Chopra Foundation and Chopra Global, a world renowned pioneer and integrative and personal transformation. He's a clinical professor of family medicine and public health at the University of California, San Diego, and he serves as a senior scientist with Gallup Organization. He's the author of more than 90 books translated into 43 languages, including numerous New York Times bestsellers. Time magazine has described Dr. Chopra as one of the top 100 heroes and icons of the century. My work and the focus of most of the conversations I have on this podcast center around our physical health. But Deepak and I begin our conversation by talking about the concept of our quantum bodies, or as he explains it, our soul or spirit body. Now, it's a big concept, one that spiritual and religious traditions have been built on for thousands of years. Through our conversation, Deepak discusses how this concept of our quantum bodies is also based in science or quantum science to be more exact. Busyness is more pervasive than ever and Deepak shares how the belief of not having enough time affects our physiology. And we explore things like our perception of time and space and how they impact our relationship to our bodies and our health. Now we're learning more and more about the way we live and how it directly influences our gene expression. Deepak explains how practices that stimulate our vagus nerve, the longest nerve in our body, promotes physical healing, and he breaks down why disease is actually becoming optional. We also touch on how information changes your metabolism and the daily practice Deepak uses to overcome fear of death and the four intentions he starts his day with and why we are not our brains. Delving into the quantum nature of the body through the lens of quantum physics is complex, and this is a fascinating discussion that scratches the surface of how we can apply this science to create better health at every age. So now let's dive into my conversation with Deepak Chopra. Welcome back to the Doctor's Pharmacy Podcast, Deepak. It's so great to have you again. Thank you, Mark. Well, I'm excited this time to talk to you about one of your, I don't know if it's your 95th book or 96th book, but it's up there. I'm very excited about this book that you wrote called Quantum Body, the New Science of Living a Longer, Healthier, More Vital Life. And we've had a lot of conversations lately about longevity, about aging, about how we live. And I think, you know, I was sort of reflecting back when I got out of medical school and this book that I wrote called Ageless mind, timeless body. Body, timeless mind. Works either way, right? Like mind, body, body, mind. And it really kind of catalyzed a lot of my thinking about what needs to change in medicine, how I wanted to shift my career. And I was very inspired by some of the lessons I learned in there about biology and the things that go beyond our even physical body. And I remember one of the stories in there was about Rosetta, Pennsylvania, where this whole group of Italians had come over from Italy and then or started eating the American diet, but they weren't dying at the same rate from heart attacks and other diseases because they had this really tight-knit community, which sort of speaks to something other than our physicality that's influencing our health. And, you know, I just want to start by opening, opening this podcast with a quote from your new book called Quantum Body, which is this. Your body isn't what you think it is, or to be more precise, your real body isn't what you think it is. that's because your real body cannot be seen in a mirror. It doesn't get sick or grow old. It doesn't fit inside the package of flesh and bones that occupies a few cubic feet in time and space. Your real body is a quantum creation. Now, most of us know about quantum physics. Maybe they read the Dao of Physics. But what does quantum body mean? And what is the difference between your.

Quantum body and your physical body? Let's just start with the bigger framework. Well, if you if you do your research, you'll see that there's something called the quantum field, which is the fundamental ground of all existence. And it pervades all of space and time. It surrounds you, but it's also in you. So right now, as we speak, the quantum field and we use it, you know, we're using it right now to you know, the electromagnetic expression of that quantum field to do this podcast. Yeah. Use it to send emails or text messages. Yeah. Or Instagram or anything. It's, you know, all our technology is based now on Quantum technology, if you want to call it.

And then the next generation of computing is called Quantum Computing, right? I mean, that's the type of computer.

So, and also right now, 80 of our economy comes from Quantum. technologies. Okay, so now what is the quantum field? It's a mathematical object. You cannot directly see the quantum field, although you can infer its existence through various kinds of experiments. Nobody doubts that the quantum field is the ultimate ground substrate of all existence. And the way you define it is the field from where virtual particles appear and disappear at the speed of light because that's the fundamental thing. And somehow these virtual particles end up creating what we call the physical universe. Then there's another problem in science. So we know that the quantum field is basic. Now if you go On the internet, and these days, it's easy to check out anything with AI. And you ask the following question, is the quantum field subjective or objective? And you'll get the answer most of the time that it's objective. We can measure its effects. But then if you go further and you say, how can you have an object without a subject? Then AI gets confused. And then if you go a little further in your research, you'll see that actually the pioneers of quantum mechanics, people like Erwin Schrödinger, who wrote the most famous equation ever, other than E=mc², Schrödinger's equation describes everything in the universe. And Schrödinger actually said the wave function is which basically determines, you know, the appearance of a particle on measurement. So, you know, the quantum field doesn't appear till a measurement is made. And once the measurement is made, there's something called the uncertainty principle, you know, which means you cannot predict where the particle will appear. Anyway, that's the math of it. But Schrodinger himself said the wave function, and you can check this out and don't believe what I'm saying. Schrodinger equated the wave function with Atman. Atman is in Upanishads, Atman is what you call the soul. Okay.

And the Upanishads are the Vedic texts of Hindu religion.

And so, like the Bible, it's a big fan of the Upanishads. Now, remember, he's the original inventor of this concept. Okay. So he, and that was called the Copenhagen interpretation that you cannot actually There's no appearance of a physical particle unless there's an observer to measure the wave function. Now recently, that kind of conjures up all kinds of things. Is consciousness fundamental in the universe? And that makes material scientists very uncomfortable right now because most of material science is based on an atheistic interpretation of the quantum mechanics or quantum field. So right now, even though the pioneers, Copenhagen, Max Planck, Werner Heisenberg, and most famously, you know, the Danish physicist Niels Bohr, they all believe that consciousness is fundamental to the universe. But The atheistic viewpoint doesn't, now the Copenhagen interpretation is not the most popular. It used to be the most popular. Now there's something called the multiverse, where the wave function spontaneously differentiates into every possible outcome. And that posits that there are infinite universes. And that's the only way you can get out of consciousness. If you talk to, say, people like Sean Carroll, who is one of the most famous physicists right now, he's popular in his last book, Something Deeply Hidden, he popularized the multiverse theory. It's the most accepted. And there are 35 interpretations of quantum mechanics if you go to Wikipedia. So quantum mechanics by itself is a recipe for making calculations. It posits no philosophical interpretation. As a result, we have 35 different interpretations. And the Copenhagen interpretation is the second most popular now. It used to be the most popular. But needless to say, if you go further into your inquiry, you'll realize that there are a number of physicists now who believe That the field is subjective, that if we trace back every experience, every perception, every sensation, every image, every thought to its source, you'll end up with the quantum field. And because the quantum field is not in space time, it's eternal, it's immortal. And your body is a projection. The body you and I see when you look or any object that is we're atoms, right?

We're atoms. Yeah, it's like we are particles, right? We're waves for hell of it.

Yeah, but those, what you see is very small fragment of what it really is limited by your perceptual apparatus. So, you know, the human visual apparatus can only experience between 300 or 800 nanometers of wavelength. So what I'm seeing right now, you as Mark Hyman, is a fragment of what you really are. Now, if I could see you as you really are, I'd see that your body is proportionately as void as intergalactic space. I would see a huge emptiness with a few scattered dots and spots, two random electrical discharges, and even those are manifestations of a formless field, which is infinite. So your quantum body is your soul body, your spirit body.

Ah, so in terms of the quantum body then, if it's really physics, then how do we influence it to change the trajectory of our health and well-being? Because many of us feel the weight of our bodies, whether it's pain or illness or suffering or mental health issues. And these feel heavy. But what you're talking about is a very light expanded view of human health, biology, and just sort of the nature of reality. And I think what you're talking about is really undisputable in terms of the way physics works. This is sort of well laid out. There's no doubt about the quantum field. There's no doubt about this phenomenon that you're talking about. But most people don't apply it to the body. And so I think that's what's unique about your book is how do we take this insights we learn from physics and apply it.

I purposely wrote the book with a quantum physicist who happens to be a quantum biologist, Jack Tuszynski. He's a professor in Canada and also a professor in European universities. He's a quantum biologist. And, you know, when I speak about quantum biology, traditional quantum physicists kind of roll up their eyes. There he goes again. So, you know, I purposely made sure that my two co-authors, one's a neuroendocrinology Just like me, but he's interested in quantum metabolism. And the other is Jack Tuszynski, who's a quantum biologist. Here's the key issue. See, now these days, we are all talking of epigenetics and epigenetic modulation, et cetera, et cetera. If you go back to the quantum field, experientially, and there are many ways to do it, but let's take the simplest way, meditation. Okay, meditation quiets the mind. And at some point, if you stick with meditation long enough, I practice two hours of meditation in the morning, one hour in the evening. So, you know, and I've been doing it for 35 years. I'm 77 right now and my biological age is not even half of that, you know, so and I have no sickness, zero. Okay. And, you know, I sleep eight hours. I have, I'm in perfect health as far as I can tell. And I get my checkups regularly. So if you go back to the field, which is we transcend space-time, there's no time, there's no experience, there's no pain, there's only pure awareness. And awareness is independent of its expressions, just like the bottom of the ocean is independent of the surface of the waves. The bottom of the ocean is not affected by the fluctuations on the surface of the ocean. Or the screen, a computer screen is not affected by what's appearing on the program. Pure consciousness is not affected by its manifest expressions, which are sense perceptions, thoughts, feelings, emotions, imagination, anxiety, stress. but also the opposite. It's not affected by any positive or negative emotions. It's a field of pure silence and there's no time in it. So, you know, while I'm seeing all the aging research, signal molecules, vagal stimulation, nobody's talking about how we consume time. So, you know, in the ancient Upanishad literature, it says time is the consumer and we are its food. and we are times food. So the yogis of ancient India and even, you know, the really good yogis don't talk about the celebrity yogis. They don't count their life in years. They count their life in number of breaths and they count their life in number of heartbeats. And, you know, now we can do that with all the technology, heart rate variability, etc. So my resting heart rate right now is 52. Okay. And, and my heart rate variability can go up to 100. And, and so that's the key. We have to slow down the experience of time. Now, you know, people normally, when you talk to people, they say, I don't have time to meditate. I don't have time to do this. If your internal dialogue is, I don't have time, then your biological clock will speed up. You'll have a faster heart rate. You'll have low heart rate variability. your platelets will be jittery and your, you know, your body will be inflamed. And then if you suddenly drop dead of a heart attack, then you've actually fulfilled your internal dialogue, I have no time. So in the quantum field, there's no time, there's only eternity. And we have access to it now, now, not now in imagination, but now as it is, now is not a moment in time. so the fundamental thesis of this book is that your quantum field is immortal. It is timeless. It is also, by the way, spaceless. And because, you know, it's, if something has no form, it has no boundaries. And if it has no boundaries, it's infinite. So your real body, your soul body, your spiritual body is actually immortal. And, you know, it kind of fits in with the spiritual traditions that, you know, the body experience dies, but the soul experiences eternal. Now, people have many interpretations of that, but the interpretation I have here is the traditional interpretation. Your soul is never born, it never dies. What is born is a series of experiences, a story, and that then particular, like for example, the screen that we are having this computer screen, let's assume that's the quantum field and the program is in time, but even the program is a of the screen, the electrons and photons of the screen. Similarly, our physical body is a fluctuation of the quantum body. But you know, as you know, there's something in science called the hard problem of consciousness. We can't explain how atoms and molecules and force fields and electrochemicals produce any experience. Right now we're both experiencing sound. There's no sound in your brain. There's only electrochemistry. We are experiencing colors, there's no color in your brain. So where is experience happening? And this is a mind-boggling idea, Mark. This experience we are having is happening outside of space-time. It's being processed outside of space-time.

Wait, wait. I thought space-time was all there is. I mean, isn't that the universe? No, no.

Space-time is emergent. Space-time is emergent from the singularity. In the singularity, there's no space-time. However you term the singularity, but we also have something called the qualia field. And right now, you know, scientists are not talking about the qualia field. Qualia field, you know, where do experiences come from? Colors, shapes, forms, sounds, textures, smells, et cetera.

So start again with the qualia field. And then I do want to talk about sort of the more sort of humanistic aspects, how do we actually you know, understand the quantum body in terms of what it means for us, in terms of how we live our lives, what we need to do to. For health and so forth.

So, you know, the qualia field is the equivalent, you say, complementary to the quantum field. Quantum field is what we measure. Qualia field is what we experience. You don't, you know, you don't experience photons and electrochemicals. You experience colors and shapes and sounds and textures. Okay, so that's the qualia field. It's complementary. Okay, so just like, you know, complementary, like brain and mind are complementary to each other. The qualia field and the quantum field are complementary to each other. And so in the spiritual traditions anyway, these are formless fields. So there's the physical formless field, which right in front of you is the space. So look at my hand right now, the space between my fingers, is actually connected to intergalactic space. You know, you can't divide space. So anytime you're in front of space, if you focus on space, you can do that right now. As you're looking at me or at your computer, just put your eyes kind of vaguely in the space in front of you and you're connected to intergalactic space. That's the physical space. In Sanskrit, it's called Bhuta Kasha. Now close your eyes and let me do some experiments in your eye with your eyes closed. Experience John Lennon singing Imagine.

Yeah, got it. Okay, I've actually been in his piano in his apartment in Central Park.

With your eyes closed, see the Empire State Building. Or see snow clad mountains or see a rainbow or red rose. Yeah. Now keep your eyes closed. With your eyes closed, touch the rough bark of a tree. Or feel that you're walking on the beach with bare feet and your feet are touching hot sand and feel that. Yeah. Wow. Or imagine that your lover is kissing you with a wet kiss and experience it. Okay, you get the point. You can all the five senses can be experienced by just thinking about them. So if I tell you think of.

A lemon, it was so vivid. It was so vivid. I was like, wait, close your eyes.

Let's go a little further. Let's close your eyes. Imagine you're licking a lemon. and you should even feel saliva pouring into your mouth as you lick the lemon in imagination.

Wow.

Yeah, it's really Italian food.

Oh, I like that pasta.

Okay, so now open your eyes. The point is you can experience all the five senses in another space and that's called mental space. So the first was physical space and then the second was mental space. Now close your eyes and imagine that your body is nothing and that borders have disappeared. It's one with the nothingness of the universe. Now open your eyes. That was the original quantum field. So, and it's also the qualia field. From where the first experience was the physical space, second experience was mental space, and the third experience is infinite space. This is your real body, which is now appearing as Mark Hyman on my computer screen. so in order to actually really affect aging and disease, you have to master these three fields. And then that's the fundamental thing. Master the three fields that express themselves as physical and mental fields. First was physical field, second was mental field. Now, In the Western modalities of looking at the autonomic nervous system, we have focused only on the autonomic nervous system. And, you know, during COVID I was doing research, our foundation on who was getting sick, who was dying, et cetera. And most of the research was through AI and meta-analysis. But in every single case, people who died, who got sick, had inflammatory storms, they had sympathetic overdrive, and nobody has ever talked until recently about the parasympathetic nervous system. So once again, in yogic traditions, they don't use these terms, sympathetic or parasympathetic. There are different Sanskrit terms, ida, pingala, brahma nadi, etc. But when you look at the parasympathetic nervous system, as you know, there's one nerve that dominates, the longest nerve in the body, the vagus nerve, which is the longest nerve in our body. Now, in the Vedic traditions, in the yogic traditions, that's the healing nerve. So it comes from your midbrain and first it interferes with the oculomotor nerve. So by doing eye exercises, you can actually stimulate the vagus nerve. just by doing eye movements. And you know, the eyes everybody knows are the kind of windows to the soul. At least metaphorically speaking, the eyes can give away whether you're frustrated, you're angry, you're happy, or whether you've slept well or you have a hangover. It's all in the eyes. Okay, so then the vagus nerve interacts with the facial nerve and there are 43 facial muscles in our face that express every single human emotion. So you can look at facial expressions and figure out the emotions that a person has. Then the vagus nerve goes to the laryngeal nerve and it interacts and it influences tone of voice. And you can tell by tone of voice, a person's mood, a baby can tell that, you know, mother is happy, mother is upset, mother is frustrated, etc. After that, the vagus nerve influences the depth of breathing and then heart rate variability. Then it pierces the diaphragm and it innervates all the organs in our body, the hollow organs and the solid organs, and then it goes, influences even the microbiome. And as you know, there's bilateral traffic between vagus nerve. So everything you can do to stimulate the vagus nerve is a healing response. Eye exercises, facial exercises, including smiling, by the way, singing and chanting will stimulate the vagus nerve. We've recently developed a little apparatus which is similar to your ear pods that you're using and that stimulates the auricular branch of the vagus nerve. and then, you know, deep breathing, heart rate, heart awareness, meditation, yoga. If you do the 35 or so postures of yoga, forward bends, backward bends, sitting postures, standing postures, twists, you stimulate every branch of the vagus nerve. And then, of course, if you have a diet that's maximum diversity of plant-based foods, seven colors of the rainbow and six tastes of life, you stimulate the vagus nerve, you correct inflammation of the microbiome. So every technique of healing in yoga and Ayurveda is parasympathetic stimulation. Now we don't use those terms. They use different terms. And then there are all these other techniques, you know, emotional intelligence, social intelligence, breathing techniques, mind-body coordination techniques, meditation, focused awareness, and what we call transcendence. You put them all together, you're evoking the healing response.

So this is really powerful as a framework. Hey everyone, it's Dr. Mark here. You know, I'm always experimenting with the latest health advances, and I found that tracking my blood glucose is one of the most insightful and accessible ways to understand my unique reactions to food. Poor glucose control is tied to all kinds of issues like weight gain, fatigue, diabetes, Alzheimer's, heart disease and stroke, but it can be hard to know exactly how your body's reacting to the glucose and sugar in different kinds of foods. That's where Levels comes in. It's a state-of-the-art app right on your phone that pairs with a continuous glucose monitor to show you how food and lifestyle factors affect your health in real time. With Levels, I realized I could make helpful tweaks to some of my favorite recipes. For example, Adding an extra avocado and a few less blueberries to my morning smoothie kept my blood sugar smooth and even, while too much fruit and too little fat sends me into a spike. Right now, you can join Levels and receive an additional two free months on your annual membership when you order at levels.link/Hyman. That's L-E-B-E-L-S dot L-I-N-K slash Hyman. Your first purchase will include a one month supply of continuous glucose monitors and a 12 month software membership. And again, if you go to levels.link/Hyman, you'll get it all. levels is offering an additional two free months off their annual membership. I want to tell you about a new superfood that seems almost too good to be true. It has thousands of five star reviews and life changing testimonials from users, and its benefits reach almost every area and every system of your body. I'm talking about armra colostrum. Colostrum is the first nutrition we receive in life, and it contains all the essential nutrients our bodies need to thrive. Armor harnesses the superfood to provide you with a host of research backed health benefits like supporting nutrient absorption, healthy blood sugar levels and fat burning. and it's even been shown to improve endurance and build lean muscle mass. So whether you're looking to strengthen your gut, increase fitness performance and recovery, or simply experience the incredible benefits for aging and longevity, ArmorColostrum is the real deal. We've worked out a special offer for my audience. Receive 15% off your first order. Go to tryarmor.com/marc or enter marc to get 15% off your first order. That's tryarmor.com/marc. T-R-Y-A-R-M-R-A.com/Mark. And now let's get back to this week's episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy. People might be going, wow, this is different than ever I've heard about how to work with my biology and my health. You know, but what you're talking about are things that are, have practical tools and applications and ways you can access the quantum body. I think that's what your book is really about. And, you know, but you kind of take it into a step where Even, even I'm having trouble bridging the gap. And I'd love you to sort of help us bridge the gap between, you know, the physical world and the quantum world. You know, we have Alzheimer's, type 2 diabetes, cancer, heart disease. And in the book, you said they don't exist at this fundamental level of quantum reality. And that by using the quantum body, we can improve our mental, physical well-being and help ourselves, our tissues, our organ functioning, help our immune system get better mental resilience and basically kind of extend.

Our life and increase our, our health span and our lifespan. So how do we kind of bridge that gap from this concept? So this is this This has been the challenge for me because you're doing two, you're using two different systems of thought and all my life I've struggled to build the back to bridge the gap. So let's just talk about the Western model right now. Okay. From the West and then I'll try to bridge the gap. So from the Western point of view right now, you and I know that less than 5% of disease is due to what we call fully penetrant genes, which means if you have let's say the BRCA gene, it guarantees that the person will have breast cancer or reproductive cancer. It guarantees that 5% of gene mutations are fully penetrant. Now, thankfully, we know that gene editing is around the corner, CRISPR and all these things around the corner. And in fact, I was just in England where I actually had the opportunity to meet a young man 27 years.

Old.

From a university in Italy and he had Progeria. So when you looked at him, oh wow, he looked like he was 90 years old. Okay. And he's a professor at the age of 27, but he's, you know, when you look at him, he looks like he's about to die. He has been working all his life on the genetics of Progeria and he's figured out now the gene editing process for Progeria. Imagine that if you can find out the genetics of aging and you can cut and paste those genes, you can get rid of old age basically. Okay. And I mean, this guy is a genius. He's studying his own disease. And anyway, so five percent of disease is genetically determined. The rest is epigenetic. And actually, even there's a movement now to stop classifying diseases like heart disease, cancer, autoimmune diseases, because all epigenetics is either is inflammation and stress, basically, and diet. Okay, those three things, inflammation, stress and diet, all of that. So 95% is under your control. Five percent is not, but that five percent will have gene editing. and it's around the corner. It's already there for sickle cell and it's already approved for sickle cell disease. So that means disease can become optional. Okay, all together optional. We know that 2 million genes are microbial genes. Only 25,000 genes are human genes. Now we did a study in 2012, one week meditation, retreat, all the genes that were responsible for self-regulation homeostasis went up some 17-fold over baseline. 17-fold. The level of the enzyme telomerase went up by 40%. Elizabeth Blackburn, who discovered the enzyme, Anne is a Nobel laureate, was a co-author in that study. It was published in Nature, Translational Psychiatry. nature, one of the best journals in the world. And now that study has been replicated, meditation will change the activity of your genes. So fundamentally, you can change, upgrade the activity of your genes through meditation. You can't change the genes, but you can change their activity. But the microbial genes that you have in your body, you can change them.

Yeah, 100 times as much, right?

And you can change them just through diet, as you know. So if you can change 95% or more of your genetic population, you can upgrade the activity of the 5% that are inherited. And you have gene editing, then disease should be optional. Now, that's the Western model. In the Ayurvedic model, now this is a different model, they say that your genes which are right now in your body, you can't even move your hands without those genes. They are your ancestors genes. So all your ancestors are alive in your body right now. Okay. And the Ayurvedic framework says that's the karma of your ancestors in your genes. Karma doesn't mean good or bad. It just means the experience. Like right now in the Middle East, there's a war going on. Epigenetic modulation is happening. Those four kids, and this next few generations will have chronic disease. We know that from the Holocaust victims in the Second World War and from animal experiments, we know that epigenetic transmission can occur for many generations. So, you know, the fact is this is all under our control. So according to Ayurveda, you can get rid of 95% of of disease just through various techniques, which are mentioned in the book, by the way. And then the remaining five percent, which is the karma of your ancestors, you can even modulate that through Pancha Karma, which is an emotional and physical and spiritual detox. And then there's a technique.

Changing your epigenetics, right? It's like changing your epigenetics.

And even, and even Gene. Yeah, epigenetics Gene expression. Now, I haven't talked about this because it's kind you know, it sounds so bizarre. Okay.

But I think people know you often say things that are very different. So it's okay.

There is a technique in Ayurveda called Kaya Kalpa. And you go into a dark room or a cave for about a year in silence. And you go physical detox and you go into an emotional detox. and a spiritual routine and you go on a special diet and when you emerge after six months or a year, you have new hair, you have new teeth and your age has reversed by more than half. Now this is what's in the literature. Okay, I have now gone to the Himalayas. I just went came back from Ladakh in Tibet and I met people who are over a hundred 115, 120. I met a woman who was 108 years and she climbed a mountain and she was out walking every 25 year old. Okay. So the thing is, there are so many things outside the Western framework that it becomes embarrassing to even talk about them because people roll up their eyes. Every time I speak, at least my scientific colleagues roll up their eyes. That's why I have Jack and Brian at least, you know, I teach at three medical schools, but nobody cares. But, you know, these guys are, this guy is a quantum biologist. And as you know, there are several chapters in the book on quantum metabolism and quantum motors and all of that.

Well, what is quantum metabolism? Because that's something that's very interesting. You know, a lot of the work that I do is around helping people address burden of metabolic health.

Let me share with you a story that will tell you something very interesting. So this is when I, this is almost, you know, in the 1990s, I was reading the chart of a patient and I looked at the patient as, you know, very reluctantly, I said to the patient, listen, I am sorry to tell you that you might have cancer. And as I assumed, as I said that, I, you know, I saw his face crestfallen, his blood pressure went up. I'm sure it platelets were sticky and his body was inflamed. In the next moment, I realized that I was reading the wrong chart. And so I said to him, I'm really sorry, but that wasn't your chart. and immediately his metabolism changed. So information is metabolized at a very fundamental level at the quantum field, information. And you know, information is a very interesting word. It says to give rise to form. So and information changes your metabolism at the most fundamental level, whether it's mitochondria or the little quantum motors, in your body that make metabolism possible. So in the book, you'll see there is a whole section on what we call quantum metabolism, aging. And it's in the book. It talks about the mechanics of quantum metabolism, but metabolism can physical, what we call, you know, metabolic pathways, whether it's the Krebs cycle, or whether it's glycogenolysis or any metabolic cycle. First of all, they're non-locally correlated. You can't have one metabolic cycle which is not correlated with the another metabolic cycle. You have to wonder, how does a human body think thoughts, play a piano, kill germs, remove toxins, make a baby all at the same time? There's no linear explanation for that. you have to invoke quantum principles like superposition, entanglement, uncertainty, everything that quantum mechanics talks about.

Okay. Yeah. But how does the metabolism, like in terms of what you eat, diabetes and some resistance connect to the quantum body? And how do you instruct people to change what they're doing to access that?

Well, you're doing that with people. You're telling people insulin resistance can be removed if you lose your weight, right? Yeah. Aren't you doing that? I mean, every time you- For sure.

But is the quantum body different in terms of how it would intersect with it and how it would interact with us?

Yeah, it goes much deeper. It goes much deeper because if you go into these different mind-body states, you can actually fine tune and even organ specifically through what is now being called interoception. You're familiar with the word interoceptive awareness, right?

Yeah, of course.

So when, you know, everybody as a child learns interoceptive awareness, we call it toilet training, okay? How do you, a baby can learn how to control bladder and bowel, right? You can even get your pets to do it. You know, you can train your dog to control its bladder and ball. And the yogi said, why do you stop there? Why don't you control your heart rate? Why don't you control your immune system? Why don't you controlled your endocrine system. All of that is possible through what is called interoceptive awareness. So you take your mind to a very quiet state. There are three processes. In Sanskrit, they're called dharana, which means you focus your attention to a particular part of your body. The second is called dharana, which is meditation. And the third is called samadhi, which is called transcendence. So when you combine these three, then you can target mentally any part of your body to evoke the healing response.

Amazing. Wow. That's incredible. And the healing response that happens, it actually creates a biological change. It's not just in your mind, it's actually changing your physiology through... What is healing?

Healing is just homeostasis. That's all it is. When a child is born, in a sense, a state of perfect humor homeostasis, unless it has a genetic disorder, right? So homeostasis is your fundamental basic response. It's what's, you know, and Jack in his research calls something he calls something called the fitness landscape. You read it about in the book that, you know, you have to maintain your parameters within certain ranges, blood sugar, blood blood pressure, body temperature, all of that. That's the fitness landscape. And if you can regulate your body in those parameters, which we call homeostasis. So healing response is nothing other than return to homeostasis.

Interesting. And how does it apply to longevity and aging? Because I know in your book, you put a talk about aging in a very different framework. And you basically say that that we can sort of shift our aging process through the quantum field. And no one really knows what aging is and it's maybe a mistake.

Yeah, there are 10 ways you can shift the aging process. So let's talk about the three most important. First is get rid of the idea that your body is a physical object. It's not a physical object. It's not a noun. It's a verb. If you say I have a body, which Fertilized egg, embryo, zygote, baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, mature adult. Your body is a verb, number one. Number two, it's not a physical object. It's a field of awareness. The only way you know a body is you're aware of it. You can see it, you can touch it, you can taste it, you can smell it. So once you understand that you and also the body, biology of the body is different in different states of consciousness. And now people find that very esoteric, but I'll just give you an example. Your biology's metabolism is different in waking, it's different in sleeping, it's different in dream states. Now the yogis go beyond that. Beyond waking, dreaming and sleeping, there's a fourth state called non-local awareness. There's a fifth state called local and non-local awareness. There's a sixth state, which you experience the world non-locally and other people non-locally. And there's a seventh state called enlightenment. Now in each of these states, perception is different, biology is different, sensory experience is different, metabolism is different. So the first way to alter your aging process is shift your concept. Your body is not a physical object. It's a field of awareness. There's a sutra in yoga, meditate on your body as the universe and having the nature of awareness. So that's the first thing, change your concept of the body. The second is change your concept of aging itself. You know, aging is in our society is the hypnosis of social conditioning. You know, at 65 you retire, then you go to Florida, Then you end up in a nursing home with a tube in somewhere in your body. Okay. And then you die on a respirator or in the ICU. That's not normal. It's Western indoctrination. You can have the biology of youth with the wisdom of experience. So change that cultural hypnosis. And so first is change your perception of the body as a physical object. from a physical object to a field of awareness. Second, get out of the hypnosis of social conditioning that tells you that you have to die at a certain age and end up in a nursing home at a certain age. And the third is change your experience of time. These are the three most challenging things in the aging research because I look at all the aging experts, nobody is talking about this. So that's number one. The second is deep rest, two kinds of rest, deep sleep and meditation. The third is mind-body coordination along with vagus stimulation. The fourth, what does that mean?

Mind-body coordination mean?

This yoga, martial arts, tai chi, qigong, these ballet, you see, regular exercise will not do that. Regular exercise will stimulate your muscles, whether you do aerobic exercise or you do weight training, it's not connecting your mind to your body as in vagal stimulation. So anytime you do martial arts, Tai Chi, Qigong, yoga, you're doing that mind-body coordination.

Okay, got it.

Okay. Okay. The fourth is emotional resilience, empathy, compassion, joy, equanimity, and loss of the fear of death.

Okay.

The fourth is getting rid of the.

Last one's a hard one though.

No, it isn't. If you get in touch with your quantum body, there's no death. I mean, I don't have any fear of death. In fact, I meditate on my death every night with joy, you know, because I can experience my physical death, but I cannot get rid of my quantum body. So there's no, you know, the essential spiritual experience is three things. Finding your identity beyond space-time, the emergence of platonic values like love, compassion, joy, equanimity, and the third is loss of the fear of death. So that's the next point. That's number four. Number five is getting rid of not just physical toxins, but emotional toxins, emotional and relationship toxins. Okay, that's, that's six. Seventh is biological rhythms. Now, you know, we talk only about circadian rhythms because we are so familiar with jet lag, okay? But we have four rhythms in our body, circadian rhythms, seasonal rhythms, lunar rhythms and gravitational rhythms. Okay? And nobody's talking about these. And even though two years ago, three years ago, the Nobel Prize went to biological clocks, you know that, you know the people who specialize that your body organs obey certain different organs, different cycles. But actually our body is a symphony of the universe. Universe means one song. So we have circadian rhythms, you have seasonal rhythms, we have gravitational rhythms, you have lunar rhythms, and they all are connected to each other, they all coordinate with each other. so there are Ayurvedic rituals that allow you to balance all these five. You know, if you have perfect harmony of your biological rhythms, that's the state of least entropy. And as you know, aging is entropy. The arrow of time is entropy. So biological rhythms. Now, for people who are not willing to go all the way, even walking barefoot on the beach or walking barefoot on the grass, or spending time in nature or going to a forest in Japan, they have this custom called forest bathing. All of those things will help balance your biological rhythms. But actually that might be the most fundamental thing. If your body is totally in harmony with what we call cosmic rhythms, that should decrease the arrow of time. that would be the state of least entropy. Okay? So that's another way. And then you can go a little further, you know, and you know, what is a youthful mind? What is youthful aesthetics? What does love do? And ultimately, how do you get in touch with that which is timeless in your own being? So, it's a lot to take. I know it's a lot to take.

It's quite a framework. It's a lot. I think the book really lays it out very well, though.

It does. I was very careful actually even in the book not to try to confuse people because people say I confused them.

Well, I think one of the ways maybe we can get out of that is to talk about some of the case studies you share and I'd love you to share some of those case studies that actually show the practical application of quantum principles to the human body and to health?

Well, I just told you about the most interesting case that actually started me on my journey. I read a person's chart incorrectly, gave him the wrong information. And then, you know, and then of course, you know, start instead of thinking in terms of matter and energy, think in terms of information.

Yeah.

I think the main thing is, you know, very practical terms, if you're feeling relaxed, unpressured, if you're enjoying a loving, fulfilling relationship, if you always stay in your comfort zone, if you're experiencing joy and delight, if you're learning to be resilient, if you're rejecting pressure from other people, if you're feeling good about yourself, then you start to see that your body responds. You should be able to wake up in the morning. Here are four things that are key. I start every day with four intentions. Number one, joyful energetic body. Then I feel my body and I ask myself on a scale of one to ten, how joyful and energetic is your body? If it's eight, nine or ten, I'm fine. If it's six or seven, I'm struggling. If it's less than five, I'm suffering and already have a chronic disease. That's how I figure it out. So that's number one. Do you have a joyful, energetic body? Number two is loving, compassionate heart. No resentments, no guilt, no shame, no anxiety, no anger, no depression, no hostility, no resentments. Number three, quiet mind, not a positive mind. I think a positive mind can be very stressful. If you're trying to be positive all this time, you'll stress yourself out, but you'll also stress other people out. So, you know, because it's not natural. You have to quiet the mind and observe the mind and be quiet. The mind has to be quiet. Can you silence your mind? and the fourth is lightness of being. You know, if you're not feeling light as the wind, and you know, then there is either entropy and heaviness on one side or there is lightness on the other side and in between a whole range of experiences. So those are my four intentions. Every day I start with joyful, energetic body, loving, compassionate quiet, creative, reflective mind and lightness of being. And then, you know, I have these seven breakthroughs in the book. I don't know if you saw those.

Those are very important.

You know, your true identity is not your ego identity. Your true identity is your quantum mind or your spiritual identity. Or by the way, people are now understanding that because of psychedelics, you know, because when people go through an ayahuasca experience, or through a psilocybin experience, there's a part of your brain that's called the default mode network, which is the neural correlate of your ego mind. So once that cools down, you feel, oh, I'm connected to the whole universe. Now, psychedelics can do that, but I'm now focusing on how you can get people VR experiences that can also give you the same experience that psychedelics do, because people just don't have the time to meditate.

It.

So either VR or psychedelics can give you that experience. The second answer is, yeah, doing meditating.

Is a lot shorter journey than a 20 minute meditation though. Say that again. Psychedelics are a longer journey than a 20 minute meditation.

Yeah, but most people have one experience with psychedelics and they're done, you know. I mean, I've seen that with PTSD, I've seen that with a lot of people with whether it's ketamine or cylo side, but it can be profound. Yeah. Yeah. So the second is understanding that your brain is not you. You know, your brain, now that we know neuroplasticity is such a feature that you can change the neural networks of your brain. There's something in the brain called, you know, short term and long term use dependent neuroplasticity, which means synaptogenesis and neurogenesis. So you, you know, when I speak to a person, I know which part of my brain I'm activating, whether it's my cortical brain or my limbic brain or my reptilian brain, you know. So, you know, those seven breakthroughs are also very important, by the way, which are about identity, which are about looking at existence at a fundamental level by identifying your body as not having any form, etc. Etc. I know these are difficult abstract ideas till they become very practical for you. I've been a lifelong Yogi, so for me, this is natural.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's. It's so it's. These are really interesting practices because it's not like eating better or exercising more. They're actually doorways into our biology that we often don't think about or use that are accessible to us if we learn them. And I think that's what's so beautiful about the quantum body. It really provides. provides a roadmap for learning about these unexplored avenues for accessing the potential in our biology that exists because of the quantum fields that we've kind of neglected in medicine. It's interesting we use like nuclear magnetic resonance imaging and other kinds of incredible technologies that are measuring our electromagnetic field and the spin of atoms and electrons, but we don't really think about it when it comes to how do we use that as a power and a force for healing. and that's, I think, what's so great about the quantum body. It gives us an understanding in the connection between the biology and the physics. You know, so I think about it almost as a, there was that book, the Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra, which was really profound. Many of us read in the 70s. And then this is almost like the Tao of biology, right?

It's like, how do we think differently about biology in a way that allows us to access? Yeah, now, you know, science is getting very interested in what they call the biofield of every cell in your body has a biofield. Your heart is a very strong biofield. You have to have 100 cells fire all synchronistically for the pacemaker to work. And just by bringing awareness to your heart, you can actually create heart wave coherence and you can then match that heart wave coherence with brain wave coherence as well. It's all very measurable.

Yeah, yeah, it's quite, it's quite interesting. So it's takeaways from the book Deepak, what are the things that you want people to really take away that will really impact their lives?

Mark, the takeaway is you should aspire to live a long health span, not just a longevity health span. And, my goal is when I can comfortably say, been there, done that, to close my eyes. and make my final exit in meditation.

That's beautiful. That's really beautiful. Well, Deepak, thank you for your work for decades and decades for inspiring me when I was a young medical student and doctor to think differently about the body and healing and challenge some of the assumptions that I was taught in medical school, which really helped lead me on this path. And you've been doing that for so many for so long. This work is just so so important. And especially in this time where we're seeing a disconnection from ourselves, our souls, our mental health is declining, this divisiveness is increasing in society. You know, there are tools for at least us as individuals to kind of reset our nervous system, to reset our biology, and to actually get in a grounded state, which I think is the beginning of healing of society because it has to start, at least with us, and then it can spiral out in our community. I've seen that with your life. I mean, the way you live, the way work, how you operate in the world, really creates this ripple effect of goodness and healing and generosity. And it's really been a joy and a pleasure to know you all these decades and thanks for your work.

Thank you, Mark. It's a privilege always to talk to you. I'm very grateful to you as well.

Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. And we'll see you next time on the doctor's Pharmacy. Hey, everybody, it's Dr. Hyman. Thanks for tuning into the doctor's Pharmacy. I hope you're loving this podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do and introducing you all the experts that I know and I love and that I've learned so much from. And I want to tell you about something else I'm doing, which is called Mark's Picks. It's my weekly newsletter. And in it, I share my favorite stuff, from foods to supplements to gadgets to tools to enhance your health. It's all the cool stuff that I use and that my team uses to optimize and enhance our health. And I'd love you to sign up for the weekly newsletter. I'll only send it to you once a week on Fridays. Nothing else, I promise. And all you have to do is go to DrHyman.com/Mark'sPicks. /pics to sign up. That's drhyman.com/pics, P-I-C-K-S, and sign up for the newsletter and I'll share with you my favorite stuff that I use to enhance my health and get healthier and better and live younger longer. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the UltraWellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health, where I'm the chief medical officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guest opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. It's not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner now. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, you can visit ifm.org and search their find a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who is trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Keeping this podcast free is part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the general public. And in keeping with that theme, I'd like to express gratitude to those sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Don't forget, there's a way to listen completely ad-free. With Hyman Plus on Apple Podcasts, you can enjoy every episode without any breaks. Just open Apple Podcasts and tap Try Free to start your seven-day free trial.