Being Prepared for NACDS – a Discussion with David Biernbaum

This is CPG Insiders, the podcast that helps consumer packaged goods companies survive and thrive in business. Now your hosts, Mark Young and Rob Taylor.

Welcome everybody, to this edition of CPG Insiders. I'm your host, Mark Young. Today we are going to talk about nacds, national association of Chain Drugstores, and more specifically, the annual event that they hold. Now this year, it's 2019 right now, and the event will be August 24 to 26. And this is a big deal. And what we're going to do is we're going to talk to my dear friend and industry expert, David Berenbaum. David, welcome to the show.

Hi, Mark, how are you?

I am fabulous as we're on video and I can see all that wonderful green behind you. Is that green for money? Is that what that's.

It's not easy being green, but I'm obsessed with the color.

I can see that. Well, I'm kind of like that with blue, though. I have a lot of blue. I have a lot of blue cars and a lot of blue stuff.

Green means go. It does.

Well, we're going to go. And folks, what we're going to talk about today is going to NACDS is no low price proposition. You have meet the market, you have the show floor. Having a booth in there is tens of thousands of dollars. And what we want to talk about to David is how to get the most out of that investment. So, David, let's start with, in your opinion, who should be at nacds, right?

Well, the people. It is really a sales oriented event, unlike some other events. For example, NACDS annual meeting, which is not a sales event. Total Store Expo is totally about buyers and sellers. So certainly any salesperson or owner or entrepreneur who is doing business or wants to do business with retailers, not just chain drug, because supermarkets are there, club is there. Mass merchandisers are there. Anybody who is or wants to do business in the selling side of the business should be there.

So let me add to that. When we say national association of Chain Drugstores, that's anybody who has more than one location and has a pharmacy desk.

Yeah, that's correct. And it tends to be national chains and regional chains. I'm sure that there are independent pharmacies who come or walk around or attend, but they kind of have their own event.

Right, but Costco has a drugstore, Sam's Club, Walmart. I mean, all of these stores have drug counters.

They sure do. Yes, exactly. Supermarkets, club, mass merchandisers, they're all there.

Now, David, what about cvs? Because CVS has handed the drug counter over or Target has handed the drug counter over to cvs. So does Target still attend nacds?

They usually do. I don't know for certain if they're registered for this year, but I would think they would attend anyway. Because nacds isn't only about items that are in the pharmacy area. There's all kinds of general merchandise and other types of products that participate in total store expos. So they'll have somebody there.

And folks, if you've never been there, it's a very big show floor. So I mean it's anything from hair care to over the counter drugs to energy drinks to, you know, over the county over the counter allergy medications to incontinence shoe inserts. I mean, you name it. If you can find it in the front of a drugstore, you will find it at this show.

That's a good definition because that's exactly accurate. You can find it in front of the store. It's at nacds. It's a total store expo.

So David, when you go to nacds, it starts off with this. Day one is called Meet the Market and you give your opinion. My description of Meet the Market for people is it's a day long speed dating event.

Yes, speed dating.

And you get what is it, 12 minutes or 15 minutes? I forget.

It seems to change from year to year. I think this year it's going to be 12.

So when you walk in this room, folks, there is this big room with nothing but a sea of eight foot long tables, rows and rows of them. And there'll be, here's a section where the Walmart people are and here's where the Walgreens people are and here's where the CVS people are. And you make appointments with all these people and you now have a schedule and it tells you to go to desk. Hi. 12 at 12:15. Well you wouldn't be 12:15 because a break for lunch, 1:15 and you have 12 minutes. And your 12 minutes is with that buyer. And then when your 12 minutes is done, a bell will ring and you need to get up and leave. One, because whoever's going to sit there next is now breathing over your shoulder probably. And two, you have somewhere else to go. If you have filled your schedule and.

The next table that you're meeting with might be on the other side of.

This large banquet room and you have 12 minutes. So if you spend two minutes of it running there, you just gave up two of your 12 minutes.

I recommend a skateboard Yeah.

I want to get a segue in there and just like, segue around it. So, David, when I talk to new companies who go to Meet the Market.

Yes.

The first thing they say to me is, we had a fabulous Meet the Market. Everybody's bringing us in.

And that is going to be not true. Even if they think it's true, it.

Is not true, is it?

It never is true.

So what I always liken it to for people is folks that were speed dating and the person on the other side of the desk was being interested and polite.

Yes. Yes. Because that's easier for a buyer to do than to have to have the energy to say, this really isn't a product that we're going to consider. They'd rather just be polite and talk to the next company at the next appointment. That said, there certainly are effective ways to raise the odds that your 12 minutes will be successful. But one thing to understand, Mark, to your point about everybody's going to put us in, really. Nobody, no buyer, no retail chain makes a decision at the event on what they're going to carry. Because that's not the procedure. That's not the way that retailers operate. There's lots of other people involved who are not at the table. There is a process involved. There is a time of the year when they look at their shelves and planograms. So the opportunity at Meet the Market is to make sure that you get an appointment at the retail headquarters when that time comes.

So the meetings that I get the most excited about. And by the way, there's always an exception. Now, I've had buyers who were deciding to buy a product, but it's because we already had three meetings with them prior to this.

Sure.

And they just took this as an opportunity to tell us what the results were. But as a rule, the meeting that I tell people to get excited about is the buyer who says, I'll take a meeting in three months when I'm doing review, send me samples. If somebody really says they'll send me a vendor, new vendor application, that's really the best outcome you can hope for in one of these things.

Right. That's the result that you're looking for is you want there to be a next action, preferably suggested by the buyer. Or if you asked, where do we go from here? And the buyer suggested to make an appointment. By the way, another person that should be with you at the meetings is your broker or your master broker or both, for a lot of reasons. Mostly because it gives confidence to the retailer that somebody at the table already understands their business and their operations and how to get those forms filled out and how to get an appointment and how to prepare for it. So you really need to have those people there too.

I talked to quite a few people who go to nacds. It's their first time there. They have no master broker, they have no account brokers. They think everybody's going to bring them in. Nobody brings them in. And they threw 25 to $40,000 away because they didn't have representation at those meetings.

Yeah, that's a big mistake. You really do need in preparation for Total Store Expo and that's part of the prep is to make sure that you have the right people with you. The right people, especially at Meet the Market, brokers won't necessarily be in your booth the whole time because they have several different client companies that they work for. But you certainly want them to be in the booth when a key account or a major retailer comes to the booth as a follow up to Meet the Market. You really want everybody there who can make a contribution and who has some relevance to what happens next.

So in my 12 minutes, what do these buyers want to see from me?

It is speed dating in that buyers are really screening companies. Like you said, Mark, there's some companies, a lot of companies really, that are already doing business and they're really not being screened for doing business. They're using the occasion to show line extensions or new items.

Exactly.

Whereas entrepreneurial companies, brand new ones, are trying to get a door opened to have an opportunity to get products and distribution at that retail chain.

I find that my established clients who still go to nacds, not everybody does, but I find my established clients that go to nacds use Meet the Market as just an opportunity to get in front of the buyer one more time. Because it's not always getting meetings with, not always easy to get a meeting.

Well, that's definitely true. It's more difficult these days to get a face to face meeting because so many things can be done electronically and an increasing number of retail buyers would prefer to talk to you electronically. But you might get one shot a year, maybe two if you're already an established vendor, to meet with the buyer person to person. And this would be an extracurricular opportunity to meet with that buyer. It would be a third occasion or a second occasion, depending on how often you get to go there. So it's really valuable because it is. If you're an established company with established brands, you'd be crazy not to take this free 12 minutes to present something new or find out how you're doing, or to get some feedback or to suggest a promotion.

And just cement that relationship.

And to cement it. Because usually not only is the buyer present, but usually a senior buyer is somewhere either at the table or in the room. And that's an opportunity sometimes to interact with somebody that you won't get to even a corporate headquarters. Right.

Or you'll get a VP that'll come by your booth possibly and chat for a few minutes if you're with them. So what does this buyer want to see from me? Do they want me to sit there and tell them the list of ingredients that's in my product or to tell them I had 15 clinical trials that showed that I can cure whatever? What do they really want to see?

What they want to see is what do you offer or what do you have or how prepared are you? First of all, do you have something I think I might want or need? Secondly, how qualified are you? How prepared are you to even do business with us? Are you funded well enough? Do you have a plan? Do you have a marketing plan? What is your energy? Do you have an advertising agency? Do you have an advertising plan? These are all the screening type criteria that they really want to know in 12 minutes, the features and benefits. Sure, you need to spend about two or three minutes talking about the product and why it's so great, why it's so fantastic, its point of difference, why it's not the same as five other items that the retailer carries. But most of all, you need to present. You. You need to present your plan in a short form so that what you're really presenting is confidence, that you know what to do and you have the right product and you know your information, you know your pricing, you know your plan, you know your marketing, and you know what you're going to do to move the product. If you can do those things, it's not hard to do in 12 minutes. And you know your place in the category that you're in or where in the category you want to be or where you think you can be. They also are kind of screening you to see what you know. Do you know the category? Do you know beyond just your product? They might ask you how much business you think you can do with your product. They're looking to see if your answer is going to be realistic or if it's crazy or if it's not good enough. These are things that train buyers really looking for in the 12 minutes. That's why be prepared Learn how to do it long before you get there. Take somebody with you who's done it a hundred times or more and have your full 12 minutes already planned before you sit down so that it goes smoothly and you don't waste time.

So in this speed dating environment, they're not just sizing me up to see if it's worth having dinner, they're looking to see if I'm marriage material.

Absolutely. You know, one thing that newer companies in particular, one thing they usually forget to do, where to you and me or to established companies would be kind of obvious, is go check some stores and stand five feet away from the shelf and take a real objective look at that shelf in your category and make some notes. Are there any voids? How much space do they give to what types of products? How much space do they have? How much space do they. What's the difference in space they offer throughout the chain? How many different. Now talk to the store manager. Right.

How important is this category to the retailer?

Absolutely.

Because some retailers will have an enormous section of a category. And you might go to another store. I'll give you an example. You can go to a Walmart or a Walgreens and there'll be a big analgesic section, but then you go to a Target and Target has a much smaller analgesic section.

And that leads to another good point. Before you go to Meet the Market or to Total Store Expo in itself, have conversations with people that know your category and the industry example to the point Mark that you just made. Mr. Expert, tell me, what are the priorities of the retail chain that I'm going to meet with on my schedule with the fifth meeting and how does it differ from other retail chains I'm going to meet with? Because if I give exactly the same presentation, you know, all 40 or 50 times, it's not going to be the right presentation. Probably about 35 or 40 times. Yeah. So be prepared to know who and what you're going to talk to and the likelihood of what they are interested in and what propels them go. Be prepared, Talk to experts. Don't just wing it when you get there. That's a big mistake.

And keep in mind, you're not looking for the buyer to become your hero. You're looking for ways that you can become a hero to the buyer.

Right. And one of the mistakes that new companies make, don't go sit down at Meet the Market and try to get an education about the industry or even about the retail chain from the buyer. That is a waste of 12 minutes. Yes. Buyers are very nice. They want to get through the day. They might offer some assistance or help at least at the 12 minutes. They might give you some information, but don't waste your time with that. Know as much as you can about every retail chain you're going to meet with and the buyer and the category before you get there. The buyer might be nice to you and say, you know, don't ask them how many stores they have or something crazy like that. You're supposed to know all that before you sit down.

And if I'm going in, to me, I'm not going to go in and ask the buyer. So let's say I'm talking to the buyer for meal, replacement, drinks. I'm not going to go in and say, well, what do you think you're missing? What would you like to have in your store? Because the buyer is going to tell you, as far as I know, I've got everything I need.

Absolutely, yes.

I think I've got it all. Otherwise, I'm telling you I'm incompetent.

Exactly. So that's why you really need to know your stuff. But also, in as much as you want to be prepared to talk to the buyer, you also need to be prepared. What are the right questions to ask the buyer? What is the right conversation and what's the dialogue all about in order to have a successful 12 minutes? Because it's also a mistake to do all the talking for 12 minutes and not get any feedback at all.

You don't ask the buyer, ask you what not to do. David, give us your ideas of what not to do. What's the most egregious things you've seen at Meet the Market?

Yeah, don't ask the buyer to give you tips or advice about your packaging. If the buyer has something to say about your packaging, he or she will say so. And that's fine. That's good that you got that kind of feedback. Don't ask for that because you're supposed to be the expert at what you're marketing. So don't sit down and look at Total Store Expo as some kind of a tutoring or mentoring event because you're just wasting your time. Don't do that. Don't waste the whole 12 minutes just talking about the features and benefits of the product without talking about the other things that we've discussed earlier. Don't waste too much time with small talk, even though that's easy to do and frankly, that's easier for the buyer, too, just to do small talk. If they really don't know why they want to talk to you. But don't waste even a single minute. Small talk shouldn't last more than few seconds. And what is small talk in a 12 minute meeting? You need to say who you are, what your company is, what your company does, and your elevator pitch and then just get right into the meeting and allow for dialogue back and forth.

And how do you close it? What's the way to close that meeting?

What you want to close with is establishing a next action. The next action might be something as simple, Mark, as will you come over to our booth? Because Meet the Market is day one. Now, for three days you're going to be in your booth. You don't want to have, you want to be just, you don't want to just be talking to your partner in the booth for three days with nothing to do. Yeah. Or just talking to closeout people or just talking to people's families. A next action. A very successful next action is, hey, can we set up an appointment for you to come by the booth so we can finish this conversation and show you some of the advertising or promotions or even products that we were not able to cover in this very short time because we have a lot more in the booth to show you than we're able to carry around with us. If that buyer gives you a time or a day or even approximately and says probably try to stop by Tuesday afternoon, try to nail it down if you can without being annoying. But that's good feedback. That means that buyer has enough interest to come see you again even before you leave town.

Wait, let's say that buyer says I'm actually leaving tonight because I've had that happen. I'm leaving after this tonight. I won't be here on the show floor.

It happens a lot. So at this point, and you don't do this until toward the end of the appointment, toward the close, certainly don't do it prematurely or you won't like the answer you get or you get a good answer probably won't be true. When you get toward the end and you're closing and if the buyer says I won't be available, I won't be around, I'm leaving, then you do ask for a little bit of feedback. Well, what are your thoughts? Have I told you today something interesting enough where you will give me an appointment? You might as well ask that question because if the answer is no, there's no sense in begging for an appointment. You're not going to get it until you re present or do it a better way next time. Mm, it's okay. Toward the end as a close to get that feedback. Have I said anything or showed you anything today that is motivating to see you again? Of course you're gonna say it in a positive type way. And that's when the buyer will say, have your broker set up an appointment. Or we do our planogram reviews for this category in November. Check with us in October and then don't be afraid to say, so if we give you a call in October for a November appointment, we'll get one, won't we?

And of course, if I've got a good master broker or broker, chances are the broker is going to ask that question.

The broker is going to ask that question.

They're going to close it.

In most cases, any kind of decent master broker, our broker is going to get you an appointment. But they know how to bridge that Meet the Market meeting to getting agreeable feedback that an appointment is going to happen. Because then when they call or email that buyer to get an appointment, they can refer to the verbal commitment that was made by the buyer at Meet the Market. It's all dynamic. It all works together.

Now what do you do with the buyer who says, well, send me samples.

What you really want to know, which.

Is sometimes just a way to get rid of you.

Yes. So you really need to be smart enough to either have somebody with experience with you or figure out if there's a sincerity in that question. Don't just get all excited and get aroused and go, oh sure, how many should we send you and what's the address? And by the way, don't say, what's the address? You know, you could say, who should I talk to at your office who can give me very specific instructions as to how to send these samples to make sure that they get safely into your hands. Not a bad question. Your broker probably already knows that answer. Yeah, but, yeah, but you can test that question for validity. When they say, well, just send me some samples, you could ask a follow up question. You could say, will that be for looking at the review or will you be testing the samples? Will you be tasting the samples? I'd like to know what the samples will be used for so that I can help you maximize the benefits from receiving them.

I'll also do something. Let's say I've got five SKUs. I'll throw the question at him. Well, out of the five SKUs that we have, which ones? Which one or which either item or items are the ones that are Important to you.

Give them a choice of a yes or a yes or a yes or two yeses.

And if they say, well, send them all to me, then they're probably not.

That interested, then that's really not going to happen. I've been doing this since 1977, and I've never heard sincerely, I'm interested in taking on all your products, and I'm talking about really big companies. There's never really sincerely interested in bringing on everything you just showed them in 12 minutes. Because they really don't know enough about it yet. 12 minutes to know they want that. And like we said in the beginning, there's other people involved. There are. There's a process involved that hasn't even begun yet.

So on the Meet the Market side, the real come away here, folks, is you're not going in there to close a sale. No, you're going in there to close on a future contact.

That's exactly right, Mark. That's what you want to happen. It could be as immediate as coming to the booth. It could be, give me. Call us and give us. We'll give you an appointment for the planogram. It could be the send me the samples. If it's a sincere way, they might tell you somebody else to contact, which could be an admin. Right.

You might find out that I'm the wrong buyer.

And that happens a lot at Meet the Market because they don't send everybody. They might have 14 categories, but only six tables or two tables. And there's a skill set that goes with that, too. You need to know right from the beginning if it is the right buyer. And if it's not, I mean, if there is the right buyer at the next table, then of course you want to go to the next table. But if the right buyer isn't there, then give a good presentation. But the key with that is to make sure that you give information that the wrong buyer can take with her or him and give it to the right buyer in a way that will at least sell the right buyer on wanting to see you. Of course, you're not going to rely on that or depend on that. You're going to ask skillful questions about how you get the attention of the right buyer after the marketplace and you ask for support from the wrong buyer just to the extent of will you do us the favor of handing this information to the right buyer?

Now, David, in addition to all this, should I make up a separate presentation for every account when I go in, or do I use one presentation for everybody?

There should be a part of your presentation that is the same. And that part might be about your company. The small part about the features and benefits of the product. There's no reason to change that with every table. But you've done your homework, and there are some specific things that you've prepared to talk about with each individual retailer. And that's where you have to be flexible and bendable and bring preparations with you specifically, if you want to make it more general. A presentation to a drug chain is not the same as a presentation to a food wholesaler or to an e commerce company. That's another thing as far as avoiding mistakes. And the problem with having just one presentation or one deck for everybody is it won't be relevant to a lot of the tables that you're sitting at. Having a meeting with an e commerce company is completely different than having a meeting with a mass merchandiser or a wholesaler or a distributor or a regional chain. You do need to come equipped to talk to the people you're going to talk to.

This reminds me of a military phrase, which is when people are put under pressure, they don't rise to the occasion. They shrink to their preparedness.

They do.

And I think that's the key here. This is like painting a house. The paint job is only going to be as good as the prep work.

Now, the other part, Mark, is that you need to have some black coffee before you sit down because you might have to change pace. Don't be so married to your own deck or your own presentation, even your preparation, because it's possible that you might have inadvertently miscalculated the right thing to talk about. There might be something new that you learn while you're sitting there that totally comes out of left field. And so you might have to adjust to that. Be ready to adjust to that. And do adjust to that. Don't just think in your mind, well, I'm just going to stick with what I came here to talk about and talk to the wall.

So be prepared to pivot.

Be prepared to pivot. And before you go, talk to an expert or have an expert that knows what those things are typically and how you're going to handle them. And role play it with my clients, especially if I think there's a possibility that I might not be at every table at every meeting. We do role playing. I play the role of the buyer. I play the role of the company. And in all these years, I think I've heard almost everything. But I have to admit, even after all these years, at least one thing will happen at every Total Store Expo or marketplace. That'll be new to me all these.

Years you're doing dress rehearsal.

Yes, you are. And it's just, I can't emphasize enough, you know, Total Store Expo starts six weeks before you get on a plane and go there. You need to just like a. Hate to use the analogy of a politician, but it's really true. You need to pre sell, you need to campaign even before you get there. Work with your ad agency, work with your master broker, work with your marketing team and send something. Before you even get to Marketplace, you have to be careful. You don't want to send something that eliminates the chance of having an appointment, but you definitely want to send some kind of a teaser that's very honest and sincere, that gives, gets attention and creates a curiosity about you, your company and your product. That happens maybe four to six weeks before Total Store Expo. Ask for an appointment. Yeah.

And the buyer knows you're going to meet because they have a schedule.

Right.

So sending them an email saying, you know, hi, David, this is Mark and I'm going to see you at Total Store Expo on Saturday at 2 o'. Clock. But in advance of that, I thought that I would send you X, Y and Z.

Now you're way ahead of everybody who didn't do that. And one of the reasons you're way ahead is because now the buyer feels an obligation to look at your stuff. And if the buyer, yeah, the buyer doesn't want 2 o' clock to come up on that Saturday and that buyer doesn't want to say to you, I didn't really look at it, or you know, I'm not prepared to talk to you. Besides, their boss might be sitting there right next to them. So there's sort of a unwritten obligation that the retailer or the buyer has to look at what you sent them in advance so that they're prepared to talk to you. And it's going to make the meeting better because you're already into the meeting before you even get there and can talk about the most important things.

Now the other thing I'm going to really tell people, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, David, is when you walk out of Total Store Expo and meet the market, follow up, follow up, follow up.

If you don't follow up and if you don't follow up properly and the right way and the most effective ways, you just wasted a whole lot of money. But hope you enjoyed Denver while you were there because that's all you got.

Out of it because the buyer is not following up with you almost never.

That's the only way the buyer is going to follow up with you is if you are one out of a thousand that presented something that was just so amazing and so intriguing. If the buyer can't pass up, then maybe he or she'll follow up with you. But 999 times out of a thousand, no matter how good your product is, they've seen so many people at Total Store Expo and they've gone to so many booths, they've got so many things to catch up with when they get back to their office. The only chance you have of getting a next action is for you to take responsibility for it.

My other advice is take notes. So if David's the buyer, I'm going to immediately stop and write notes when that meeting's over. David's plan, he's doing his plan review from August to September. He is interested in products with this ingredient. Maybe I just learned that from him. He likes my 4 ounce SKU such and such. He asked me to get him samples and to follow up with another meeting in three weeks. And I mean have all of those notes and then follow your notes.

And it seems so common, sensible, but you wouldn't believe, Mark, how many companies, especially new ones, don't do that.

And you can't remember it all.

Oh, you won't remember it 20 minutes later after three more appointments. Two things about note taking. It's best to take somebody with you who can concentrate on writing down the notes.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Concentrate on presenting and have the eye contact with the people at the table. So it's not a bad idea even to bring an administrator or just somebody who's really, really good at listening and taking notes. Secondly, if you don't take notes, it's really bad body language because the buyer notices that and the buyer is forming an impression. Like you don't think anything I'm saying is even that important to write it down. Right.

And it's not unusual for the buyer to say, oh well, I'm going to be here for three more days and then I'm taking 10 days off for a vacation and my kid's getting marri. So really the best time to contact me would be after September 15th.

Exactly.

So don't start emailing on September 1st.

One tip I would offer about note taking as well. You want to be open to write down anything revealing or important that you pick up from the buyer to use your examples like they like the three ounce better than a six ounce. They like small sizes, like large sizes. He said this could be good for the bigger planograms, but maybe not for the smaller ones. You want to write all those specific things down, but you might, you really should have prepared a few predictable good questions to ask the buyer during the meeting that you know you need the answers to in order to know if you even had a good meeting.

I've even picked up nuances and I'm sure you have to. Where I picked up from a buyer, where the buyer has made it clear to me that this particular buyer is really focused for some reason, his or her focus is they're really worried about their urban stores or they're really focused on how they can help with their, their packaging. As far as being eco friendly. We're really focused on we want to have more, you know, biodegradable packaging options. You'll pick up these little tidbits along the way that you could use later.

And it's just like going back to school. What's really happening there is the buyer's giving you the right answers.

Write them down if you'll listen.

If you listen. If they bring up ecology or any of the examples mark that you just used, you know, the, the mindset you should be having is write it down and then figure out how you can be relevant to what the buyer just told you are the most important priorities.

They might tell you that, you know, my chain, we've just made an internal commitment that we're going to cut packaging waste by 10%.

Right. If you brought with you to meet the market something that's in a lot of boxes and plastic, you know, it's too late to not have that with you. But if the buyer makes that point about ecology, be prepared to say we can make adjustments and make the right changes so that it fits right into your objectives and business model. Right.

We can create a biodegradable box with no problem, or we have a biodegradable box that we're working on. I just don't have it with me today.

Exactly. That's even a better answer because to the buyer, it gives them more confidence that something is already being developed and that it might really happen.

And then go home and get it done.

Yeah. Don't leave the buyer at the meeting with any unanswered concerns unless truly something that you have no idea what the answer is. And then you can say, I'll have this answer to you by the end of the show or by next Monday, whatever. But if the buyer brings up a priority or gives you some information. Make it work. Make it work. Don't say it won't work or my.

Lab people will be in our booth. Next will be in our booth tomorrow. If you could come by, we could. I'm sure he can answer that question for you easily, right?

Sometimes the answer is, I know how to get you the answer.

So, David, let's move out of real quickly. Let's move out of the first day of nacds and let's go to the show floor.

Right.

So now I have two or two and a half days to sit in my booth and hope that all the people that I just talked to for a day of speed dating will come back and visit me. But there are other people on that floor, too, who are not in Meet the Market, right?

Oh, yes. Actually, most of the people that come by your booth probably didn't have a desk at Meet the Market. It doesn't mean that the most important people aren't at Meet the Market because they usually are. But there are a lot of entities that you want to talk to that maybe didn't participate in Meet the Market or maybe the retailer was at Meet the Market, but not this particular person. Could be a senior manager, or it could be a vice president, or it could be an officer. What an opportunity that is.

You'll see a lot of smaller chains that might show up in your booth. And I've also seen that sometimes times you'll see some international people that will show up at your booth.

More and more you will see international. You will also see a lot of E commerce. And you need to be very selective and keep your eyes open or have somebody in the booth have a pair of eyes open. One of the worst things that can happen to you that you want to avoid, and I'm trying to think of a very diplomatic way of saying this, but you don't want to be talking to a closeout guy from China and find out later you missed talking to a Walmart buyer who was standing on the other side of the booth. Either have somebody with trained eyes in the booth to make sure they're watching the name tags. And as impolite as it might sound, you have to think about the hierarchy, the priorities. And there really is one. Anybody who tells you they're not, they're either naive or they're not telling the truth. When there's a major retailer standing in the booth or looking at the booth, you need to have your most informed, persuasive person. And if that's you, you need to Excuse yourself from whoever else you're talking to. Have somebody else in the booth take over that conversation and go talk to Walmart, Walgreens, cvs, Target, Kroger, Safeway. Go talk to that person. This is your chance. Don't blow it. They're not coming back.

And I'm going to give you the little secret here. Day two is not an active day on the show floor.

Right.

All your actions going to be in meet the market and the following day. So that's the magic time. You do have a booth on the second day. Not a lot happening. Once in a while, magic will happen on that second day. But that's not the heavy day. So you need your key people there. You need your key people there during those first two days.

The second day has a tendency to be people that come around and want to sell you something. Yes, listen, advertising salespeople, a lot of them are my closest friends and they're wonderful people. But come on, you don't want to talk about somebody trying to sell you a trade advertisement or some new concoction, you know, at the show for your office back at home when there are retailers walking around. But the second day is more the day where if you have the time, then, then you talk to the trade advertising salesperson or you know, the Nielsen gal, or the person who has the greatest thing since sliced bread. You know, that's going to help your business. And really, that is a day where you should really be interested in talking to people that can help your business. You should look at it that way too.

And they will be there. Well, David, any last advice for anyone going to nacds?

The last advice is start thinking about it today. Let's see, what is it? Today is May 28th. So here's an assignment. The NECDS, the total store expos is August 24 through 26. Make a timeline. Make it tonight or make it by June 1st. Make it over the next couple of days. Make it by Friday. Make the timeline of all the steps you need and will take between now and August 24th. And there really should be about five or six key elements to that timeline. You need a lot of lead time to plan an effective booth. Don't think you need to start thinking about now, not a month before even you won't have enough time.

Absolutely.

Start thinking about the booth right now and get some help with it. Get some advice. If you don't know what the right booth is, then so you put down a date for that, you know when you're going to think about it. Visit with booth people, interview some people, get some advice. Then you put down on your timeline when and how you're going to make that booth happen. Are you going to hire outsourced company to build it for you? Are you going to go do it yourself? All that is fine. But have a plan. I would say that's even more important than making your travel arrangements. But that's an important thing to do, too.

Another thing I would say, David, is don't go overboard on the amount of product and samples you bring into your booth.

Right.

Because none of us can carry home all of the stuff that people would give us.

Right. Buyers certainly aren't going to carry it home.

And some of the stuff you can't even get through tsa.

Right, Right. So make your timeline. You need help with making the timeline. Find somebody who can help you with it. Honestly, I'm a really, really, really busy guy. I know Mark is too. So I can't make this commitment or promise, but if I can, I'd be glad to help you get your timeline together. It might be an email exchange and of course I'm not going to charge you for it because I have a vested interest too in quality appointments happening at this meeting that helps everybody.

Well, you're just somebody who cares about the industry and tries to mentor people.

Yeah. And we all have an interest in it because buyers do get frustrated and if there's too many meetings or appointments that they find unproductive, they won't even come to the show next year. And you want them to come.

Yeah, because the vendors weren't ready for prime time.

Right. So I'll do everything in my power or refer you to somebody that can.

Really help you get your prime time ready.

And you know what, if you've never done a Total Store expo, don't be offended when I say this, but you need a lot of information. You don't know how to do it if you've never done one. And if you have done one or two and you didn't get the results that you wanted, please find out how to do it. And please be open minded and please listen and get some expert advice. You'll be so happy that you did and you'll have better results.

Be married to your questions, not married to your answers.

That's right. That's right.

So, David Birnbaum, we really appreciate you being here with us on CPG Insiders, folks. If you go to cpginsiders.com, go to the show notes of the NACDS episode with David. Berenbaum you'll see links to David's social media. David, you also run a CPG group on Facebook. We'll have a link there for people.

80,000 members around the world.

And you always can reach out to David for, you know, through email for advice. And as always, we always tell people if there's anything that the people here at Jekyll and Hyde Agency can do, feel free to call us. We do like David. We take lots of phone calls from people to give them, to point them in the right direction and we don't charge them for it.

And I would just want to say you won't ever meet anybody that can help you as much as Mark Young can. So he's a busy guy, too. I can't promise he'll be available, but he's somebody you got to know and you got to talk to. And I mean that with all sincerity.

That is very kind of you to say that, David. And again, you and I have a great mutual respect for each other. Well, that's it for this episode of CPG Insiders. Stay in touch with us. Let us know your questions and comments and we will be back with more inside information on the consumer packaged goods world. See you soon. If you're looking to greatly increase sales on your CPG product, don't hesitate to contact us at Jekyll and Hyde Advertising and Marketing. By the way, the only advertising agency with a guaranteed result. Just go to jekyllhideagency.com or feel free to give us a call at 800-542 10.