How to Win and Grow Walmart Business - an Interview with Cameron Jernigan - Ep. 42

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Welcome everyone to another edition of CPG Insiders. I'm your co host, Dr. Mark Young with my co host Justin Gerard. So Justin, on today's show, this is going to be a show that people are going to really like. We're going to talk about Walmart and we've got a great guest who's an expert in Walmart. And just so you understand folks, what we're going to be doing is we're going to break this show into three segments. We're going to talk about advice for people who are in Walmart, we're going to talk about advice for people that are trying to get into Walmart and we're going to talk about our guests and what kind of service they provide. So on the show today is a friend to the agency. This is Cameron Jernigan. Now Cameron is an interesting guy. He is with a company right now called Blue Ocean which provides a lot of services and marketing solutions to a lot of CPG brands. But Cameron comes to this by actually being at Walmart. To be honest with you, he was at Walmart. He was responsible for a billion dollars of the P and L impact at Walmart. Worked in frozen food, dry grocery, bakery, otc. It's got all kinds of experience there. Cameron, we're happy to have you with us today. It's excited to have you on.

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

So Cameron, let's, let's kick this off. We're going to break this into the three segments. Let's do want to get in the Walmart first. Let's start there. I think that's the order. So Cameron, let's talk to Some of our listeners are in the CPG business and they're just getting started and they want to get into Walmart and big retail. So let's start there. What does someone need to know about getting their products into Walmart?

Yeah, so, so we could get pretty in the weeds on that pretty quickly. But I'll do my best to keep it a little higher level for you. But the best thing to do as it relates to getting to Walmart really kind of buckets itself into a few areas. Right. So the first thing is have a great product with a great price that customers want.

Right.

Because Walmart wants those customers to be happy and they want your products on their shelves where they make sense. But outside of that, it really comes down to what have you done in the marketplace, how has your items performed, whether it be other retailers or E commerce platforms and then what relationship do you have or maybe working to develop with the merchant so that you can tell your story, because your story is really what's going to get it sold.

If I'm a new product, is Walmart place that I'm going to go first or do I need to land some smaller accounts, regional accounts, Do I need to get other accounts on first before I decide to go to the biggest dog on the block?

Yeah, we always encourage our clients to have a good base business outside of Walmart prior to coming in. Now that's not to say that these large retailers don't want to be first. Right. I know that Walmart and other retailers out there are super excited when they get to bring innovation to market. So the keys to that and the success that you know, or ensuring success, I should say, really falls into do you have the ability to produce? Right. Which is a big problem that a lot of smaller startups face is the ability to create that capacity. So if you can answer that question and you've got a product that really deserves to be seen by the masses and never discourage anyone, but make sure that you've got the capability to produce. Because with a retailer that's got over 4,000 locations just in the United States alone, POS can get pretty large pretty quickly. And so it's really important that you have that ability to handle capacity.

So if I, so if I'm trying to get my product in Walmart and let's say I get in chain wide, how many stores? 4,200, 4,600 last count.

And it changes all the time, but last count was around 4700.

Yeah, so 4700 stores. So I'm, let's say I'm selling a $15 CPG product. Walmart is what, going to bring in three pieces per store? Four pieces per store maybe.

So it depends on the category. But traditionally the way Walmart works is you're going to get initial purchase orders of two cases of your product per store. Right. So whatever your case number is, that allows them to fill the shelves and have some safety stock. And then from there they've actually got some pretty robust automated systems that do all the purchasing from that point on. And it basically will send you POS based on your sales velocities.

So I could easily have a startup order that's 25, 30,000 pieces of my product, right?

Very easily, Very easily.

And I need to have enough inventory in stock to start replenishing orders the first week that product gets on the shelf, right?

That's right. But you Know, as far as getting in, that's physically talking about the retail shelves. Right. And you know, we all know that E commerce is a massive opportunity for every retailer out there and customers are interacting differently with products. And so that's one of the unique things about, you know, the area that we're in with, you know, Walmart and this particular environment is they've shifted a lot of their buying processes to now they're going to come in and they're going to say, hey look, love this product and I really want to invest in you. Let's go online first. Right? And they'll put you in their warehouses or they may ask you to be the responsible party for shipping that. And then that's going to help you to kind of test the waters of how a Walmart customer is going to interact with your products and, you know, really learn some valuable information so that when you do find yourself on those shelves, you're more prepared for what those velocities and customer interaction can look like.

How does Amazon respond to, or how does Walmart respond to Amazon? Do I want to go out on Amazon and be a successful product on Amazon or do they think that makes Amazon's a competitor? How would they view that?

Yeah, so obviously everybody's a competitor. If you're selling products to customers, then you're viewed as a competitor. But it's actually a great thing to have success on Amazon and any other retail platform that's E commerce based because like any good competitor will do, they're going to pay attention to what their competition is doing. And whenever their competition has success with a product or a category that they may not necessarily be invested in as heavily, they're going to start to make those investments. So it only helps your story whenever you've got success in other places. The key thing from there is that whenever you, when you finally have that conversation with that Walmart buyer is they're going to say, hey look, you know, I've got the biggest market share out there. I'm going to provide the most eyeballs in the country for you. So I expect the best pricing and I expect to have an EDLP which is, you know, everyday low prices for our customers.

So one of the questions I had, this is always interesting journey, especially for Walmart because of I think the massive expansion that they've been doing in the E commerce space. I mean, walmart.com, they're trying to, we know they're trying to steal market share from Amazon. They're doing everything they can, right? We know it, they're setting up the ad platforms the same. I mean, you name it, right? So for our listeners, if you had a product that has been doing successful on Amazon and they're trying to prep for, okay, I want to go after Walmart like we're talking about right now, would you recommend to say, hey, start a walmart.com campaign then in walmart.com start playing in their ad platform. Do you think that's going to really give them a step up for that meeting?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, so I would encourage really a parallel path is, I would say look, if you're having success at Amazon or any online platform, let's, let's. And especially if you've answered the question, because here's the big, the big question they have to answer is how they're going to ship it to the consumer. If they have an option, if they've got a third party logistics company that they're working with to fulfill Amazon or whatever other platforms it may be. Absolutely. Get out there, start yourself a market marketplace account with Walmart. It's extremely easy process to do and start selling your products on there. And you know, if you have enough success with, with Amazon and other platforms that are on E Commerce, you know, Walmart could potentially want to bring that into their, their, what they call Walmart owned, which means into their own distribution network and they would be responsible for delivering to those customers. But I would tell you that that's a very limited opportunity just because the amount of space that's, that's available in those, those fulfillment centers.

If my goal is to get into Walmart, am I better off to just focus on walmart.com and not focus on Amazon.

I would again, I would parallel path that. I think that the more visibility you have because you know, merchants now more than ever are focused on what's happening in the digital space. Right. It's easier than you think to draw a good modular at the store level. You know, obviously there's a, there's a science to that and all the P and L management that goes into that, but there's an art to it as well. And they've mastered that. I mean those, those merch up there at 8th and Walton, those guys are the best in the world and so they really know how to do that. But they're really paying attention to what's happening in the digital space. And what you're wanting to do is not only tell a story about your brand and your product, but you're wanting to tell a story about why that product needs to live in their ecosystem, in their ecosystem. And the best way to do that is to generate more access for customers, whether that be through Amazon or other online platforms.

So I get new, young companies call me up and they want to get in Walmart. Just talked to a couple recently where their comment, because here's the point, I think that if you're going to go to a place like Walmart, Walgreens, cvs, Rite Aid, Target, we're big believers that you need to have a great broker. That broker has relationships, that broker has a reputation. That broker knows what the rules are and how to make you prime time ready. Couple of people have come to me and said, well, Walmart's having some kind of, you know, big show coming up and I'm going to get in the show and that's how I'm going to get in Walmart. Let's be honest about the show. How much of that show is about you're going to get in the Walmart and how much that show is about putting on a show.

Yeah, I would, I would tell you that it's about getting into Walmart and I know that. And it's primarily. So the one opportunity. Right. That you're mentioning is Walmart's Made in USA summit. And I believe they've changed the name now a couple of different times, but they have a summit once a year where they bring in suppliers from all over the United States that are making quality Made in the United States products. And it's a big, it's a big deal for them as a company. They really stress to us in the supplier community that it's important that we be helping them source products that are made here in the United States because they've got a goal for that. So they really do invest in making sure that those individuals have an opportunity. So that really there's two great things that come from that summit to this date. Now, they may change their mind later. They always. But to this day, if you get an invitation to that summit, you're going to have an invitation to be on Walmart.com, but you currently have that invitation now, so that's exciting. And every once in a while you will get a yes to coming in stores. But to your point about a broker, I would echo that tremendously. Unless it's a company that has a ton of dollars to invest in a retail team here in Bentonville and to set themselves up for success. It's super important because there's so much that goes into doing business with Walmart. After the. And it gets pretty complicated and can be very difficult to manage if you don't have some boots on the ground, so to speak, here in Bentonville to make that happen.

What are some of the things that you and Blue Ocean look for when a new client comes to your door and says, we're looking for a broker, what are you looking for?

Yeah, so a few things. Obviously, we want to understand their business, their products, and make sure that we feel we can be successful for them. We have a mantra or slogan here, Blue Ocean, that it's not just business business, it's personal. What we mean by that is the minute you're a client of ours, we're going to invest in you personally. We're going to integrate ourselves into your culture and your company and we're going to work for you, you know, as if our only paycheck in the world comes directly from you. And we're going to set you up for success. So we want to make sure that your product is fit for us and our skill sets as well as, you know, your company culture and everything. But outside of that, it's being able to analyze the business in totality to understand what your goals are and what your current scenario is to ensure that we can help you. But really what we're looking for the most is hungry people who are passionate about their products and who really want to go make a difference and make a sale. Because ultimately, I've seen it time and time again, what sells products isn't always just the product. Of course the product's going to be great, but it's the individual that's put their blood, sweat and tears into that product and into that process that really can articulate that story. And that passion is really indescribable and it's something that we really appreciate and look for.

Are you more interested if you had a choice between a competitive, low priced product in a space or a premium priced innovative product? Which would you rather have?

You know, that's a tough one. I would tell you that personally, I would probably rather have the more premium price innovative product because it's easier to identify the white space. Right. It's much easier to tell the story when you get into these products that, don't get me wrong, sell extremely well. And I would encourage anybody, if you've got a, what we like to call a me too product as it relates to, there's another one out there, but yours is a little better and maybe a little better price. Absolutely, go attack that. But we see that in those businesses, sometimes it can get commoditized. Right. And so when you have truly innovative products that may have a little bit more of a premium price point, it's easier to tell the story, identify the white space and really articulate that well to a merchant team and they'll be able to get it quickly and move quickly.

So when somebody is bringing their product into Walmart, Walgreens, wherever, there's usually a minimum, minimum expectation or a Mendoza line that I'm expected to be able to maintain. And I believe that changes from price point to price point and product to product from when I first bring my product into Walmart, how much time do I have on that Walmart shelf to get myself to that line or above?

Yeah, so traditionally you've got a year and so Walmart likes to set their modulars once a year, their planogram. Right. If you will. And there are what, what Walmart will call miniature modulars throughout the year. Most categories will only see one of those a year and then they'll see one major mod a year. So you've got, you've got a year to really hit that mark. But now if we back that up a little further, obviously reviews happen before that year mark. And so while you've got a year on shelf to really get yourself to the point at which you've got, you know, a good baseline and understanding as it relates to sales and hopefully impressing your merchant, you've prob about six months, which is another reason it's so important to start that investment in your advertising and things so early so that you can really jump out there pretty hot.

Yeah. When you meet with the buyers, buyers, at least the meetings I've had, buyers don't seem to be very interested in me bringing my product into their shelf and their customers buying it, they seem to be very focused on wanting to know what it is I'm going to do to bring new customers into that Walmart store. Is that the same experience that you have?

Yeah, absolutely. Which, you know, is always a tricky thing to do considering there's, you know, close to 150 million people that walk through Walmart's doors on a, almost weekly basis. Right. So there's, there's a, definitely a conversion factor there though. And they want to understand exactly how you're going to do that. And what's awesome about, you know, Walmart and how they operate is they've got like Amazon, they've got their own platforms that you can invest in to really drive awareness around your products. But then we've Got all these awesome, you know, social media tools and web digital assets that you can invest in to really put your product, product out there. And so having a clear, you know, marketing strategy for how you want to talk to customers and specifically identifying those customers so that Walmart sees that you've got a plan in place is a, is a really good way to go.

Now we're always trying to drive to our clients to be honest with their buyers. We're always trying to tell people, don't go in and tell the buyer you're going to run this $3 million TV campaign and then you don't do it. Don't tell them you're going to do it. If you're not going to do it, you need to, you need to maintain your credibility and not go promise things that you're not going to do. So when we're looking at doing business with Walmart, what are the other things a new person needs to know? I mean there's things like EDI compliance, what kind of payment arrangements should they count on? What are the other pitfalls or things that they're not thinking of yet?

Yeah, so obviously start, let's start, you know, at the manufacturing facility. Right. So we've talked about, you know, capacity. Okay, check that box. The, the primary thing too to think about is how you're going to move that product from, from your facility or from your co man to the Walmart stores. Because a lot of people come in thinking like, oh well, Walmart does prepaid and they also do collect. Well, collect seems great because that means Walmart's going to take care of it. Right? Well that is a fantastic option but there are certain algorithms that Walmart uses to determine if you're a good fit for that. So you need to make sure that you've got a good third party logistics provider as you know, as that comes in. And then once you've gotten to that point, I think that really you start to think about your payment terms, how we're going to get paid and Walmart really likes to, and many other retailers do, respectfully on cash flow. They want to buy your product and sell it two or three times before they ever write you the first check on that first po. Right. So the way the payment terms are considered here is what is the average terms right in this particular category or this particular department and that's what those terms are going to be. And they're completely non negotiable. They're different from category to category, but they're non negotiable. So so making sure that you've got enough cash flow and inventory set up in such a way that you're not going to be, you're not going to be strapped whenever that 45 day payment term comes into place. Another thing a lot of people don't think about as much because Walmart doesn't have, you know, slotting fees and things of that nature. They just do off invoice type type work for their deductions. But a lot of people see this swell allowance that's maybe a little bit larger or they see you a 2% cash allowance or 3% cash allowance in some cases that may be a little larger than what they're used to dealing with. They also see a 10% new store, new warehouse allowance which can kind of scare people from time to time. But those types of things are things to consider. And then I would tell you that the biggest hiccup we run into with any supplier is well, how are your retails at Walmart going to be compared to the retails and rest of markets? Right. And what you're costing going to be like to Walmart because they're going to have some pretty heavy margin expectations. So the general rule of thumb that we go by on that and hopefully your listeners can get some good out of this because it always seems to be something that not many people have heard of. But they're going to want a 15% price gap to rest of market, right? So they're going to want to be 15% cheaper on a daily basis to the rest of market. And you've got to be careful about how you put, you know, how you position yourself because you don't want your other retailers to be upset with you and start pulling their prices down or vice versa. So how you go to market as it relates to the entire market, right. Really matters around pricing so that you don't set yourself up for commoditizing your business right out of the gate with Walmart.

So my $15 SKU at Walgreens is going to have to retail for 1350 at Walmart.

That's right.

So I need to take that into account. But I will also take into account Walmart seems to play less games with the invoicing than some other retailers do too though.

That's correct. Yeah. There's certain things that, you know, obviously I mentioned swell earlier, right. So the defective merchandise, there are things that they will build back on. But outside of those small things here and there, as long as you're performing to the expectations they have, right. You're Delivering on time and in full. As long as you're, you know, doing your best to be a good business partner. I would tell you that it's, they're a phenomenal group to do business with. They're going to pay you on time every time and they're going to take care of you as long as, as long as you're doing your part on.

Your own and talk about the importance of that shipping. What happens when I start missing a few shipping deadlines?

Yeah, that's really tough. So I mentioned on time and in full. And so the goal, the expectation is that you're going to be on time and in full 98.5% of the time. Right. And that's a really difficult number to hit. But with that, with that expectation also comes ramifications if you don't meet that. And so there are potential chargebacks as it relates to off invoice deductions that can come from that. So if you're, you know, if your goal is 98 and a half percent and you're delivering at 70% of that number, then 30% of your, your purchase orders could be subject to, to that fine. So it's really important to identify good logistics partners that are going to help you, you know, stay above that goal and be successful.

How big are those fines?

3% of the invoices that are late. So it's, it's not a, it's, it's a percentage of the, the pos, the cases that are physically late or that are, that are not in full. As a small or medium sized supplier, those may not be too big, but every dollar counts. They can get really big. Especially for those suppliers who are doing hundreds of millions of dollars a year in sales, those numbers can get pretty big pretty quickly.

So I ship $100,000 worth of product a week late. I could take a $3,000 haircut on that order.

You could, yeah, you could. So again, that would be, that would only be if all $100,000 of that were late. Right, but, but yeah, that's absolutely the case.

That's, I mean, yeah, you do need to have really good logistic partners.

Absolutely.

And it goes back to what you said in the beginning, Cameron, and we said his first question, what our listeners need to know to get in need to have a great product with a great price. They need to show what they have done in market. So how are you going to sell this? How, why will product people want to buy this? You got to have good relationships with Walmart. If you want to get in and.

You have to have the capacity to produce.

If you don't have those four things, it's going to be rough sledding for you.

That's right. That's right. And then the cherry on top would be to really work hard to understand that merchants are extremely busy. A lot of them are running billion dollar plus categories. And so it's understanding that that's what's going on in their world, but yet still finding small nuanced ways to create a trusted relationship and that merchant, so that when growth opportunity presents itself, they've got you at the top of mind.

So that's, that's a great thing. And this is something that we try to tell all of our clients and listeners too, is these merchants, they're people too, they're consumers too. So you have to find a way to be their hero. And are there any, I would say any tips or tricks you have for our listeners to say? Here are some ways that you can, you could try to do that.

Yeah. What we do is we identify what their needs are even outside of the product that we may be selling. Right. So if we realize that a buyer is really strapped for time because they're really having to dig into category analytics and they may not necessarily have the support that they need, then we're going to deploy our team to go take care of those category analytics for them. Even though that may not service the current opportunity we're discussing. But we want to just do anything that we can do to maybe lift the load for them, you know, and additionally, and this, this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but it's what I found to be true is, you know, understand when communication needs to happen and communicate strategically. And I don't mean just what you're communicating, but when there's a lot of times I see, I see a lot of people that will over communicate and I respect and understand why they would want to do that. But again, there's, there's a lot of times where you can strategically find the right time and right place to send that note or to make that phone call. And it's going to land a lot better than, you know, on a Monday morning at 10, they're going through their weekly reporting that they've got to go now answer to their boss for and that kind of thing. So I think there's a lot of that too that can be done. But I would say the key thing is anytime you can add value to them that may not necessarily be in direct service to growing your brand or your business with them, but can run parallel with that. It's always a positive.

How important is the Made in America story with Walmart right now?

Right, that's, that's huge. I mean, Made in America, minority owned, women owned, all of that is important because Walmart and I love that they're doing this, they really, you know, understand the need to, you know, develop those suppliers more and to invest in those suppliers and they're standing to their commitment. So I mean this is a very long term strategic commitment on their behalf. And obviously I can't speak for them on that, but just from the outside looking in, they really, really, they've really done what they've said they're going to do and they've really made strides in investing there.

So will my product being made in the US could that be something that tilts the scale in me getting in versus not getting in? If all other things were equal?

If all other things were equal, absolutely. I would tell you that there's obviously there's a lot more that goes into that equation and finding space and SKU rationalization is a huge thing for those teams right now. But if you've got a made in USA product, if you've got especially that something that's innovative that you know, isn't in the hands of customers right now that are shopping those stores, then absolutely, whether you reach out to somebody like me who's a broker or whether you make sure you're on that list for that summit this year, I would definitely say that you should pursue that.

Now you just brought up skew rationalization, if you would. And I realized what a big topic that is. If you would just for a moment try to make a brief explanation to people what that is. And, and SKU rationalization. Rationalization has been going on for a few years now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in a nutshell, what. Because E commerce is blowing up and will continue to, stores are having to evolve what their space looks like, right? You're going to see some stores that may look like small fulfillment centers and then have grocery on one side or you may see stores that are just strictly shoppable and don't have any of those services. But what that means is that space has always been a premium and always limited and it's becoming more premium and more limited as it relates to shelf space. So what they're doing is they're looking at item by item and saying what physically needs to sit on my shelf versus what can I do equally as well just by having it online? And so they're trying to rationalize exactly what to keep and what to move to online only.

So if they look at my product and they say, you know, I have three products that are almost similar, they're very similar, are they going to look at it and say, if I got rid of one of these three items, will my business then consolidate down to the remaining two or will they go to another store?

Yeah, absolutely. That's actually one of the key topics that those merchants sit down and discuss with their category teams. I wish we had access to that data, man. It would be so awesome. But they've got, you know, they understand exactly who their customer is and how loyal they are. They understand whether they're going to trade into a different item or go to a different store. And so they're having to look at all of those, those points of data.

So this is a real good reason to understand that your product needs a unique point of difference, that it's not just like everything else on the shelf. And this is also a great point of why you need to be able to demonstrate to that buyer that consumers are coming to the shelf not just looking for the category, but they're coming to the shelf looking for your name, that it's your brand they came there to find.

Well, yeah, and on top of that, if you're, you are currently, you're a single SKU item on the shelf and you're trying to bring a new item, you have to prove that you're not going to take one SKU and make it two bad ones. You need to prove how that extra SKU is bringing more dollars to that shelf.

Right. Not cannibalizing your own product.

Well, not, not just, not cannibalizing your product, but not cannibalizing anything else that they have on shelf. And it actually incrementality because they're going to look at that as, you know, let's take a normal shelf, right? It's how many dollars per linear inch am I generating here? You know, and so you're going to take. Anytime you put a new item on shelf, you're taking the place of another item. And so that's the merchant telling you, I believe this item is going to do better than what set here before. And being able to understand that on the, on the beginning side of things really helps out in being able to articulate that story and justify that decision for that buyer.

Right. Because every time your product goes in, some other product had to come out to make room for it.

Right.

So you don't want to go to the buyer and say, well, your $5 product X right now that sells this many pieces, if you add my $4.50 product, half of those five dollar people will now trade down to my $4.50 product. Right, exactly.

Right, exactly.

But if you could go in and say this $5 product that you have on the shelf now that half of those consumers will trade up to my $10 product now you have a story, right?

Yeah, much a much better one for sure. You know, and, or even on the opposite side of that example, right. If you can Prove that your $4.50 item is only going to trade down half those consumers, but it's going to turn, you know, at a faster rate or whatever. Right. So there's a lot of, lot of different levers you can pull and stories you can tell. It's just a matter of being able to, to architect the whole thing and develop it up for the buyer.

How important is sustainability at Walmart and packaging?

Yeah, it's huge. I really respect, I do business with them so I have to respect them. But I really respect all the initiatives they're really putting putting together. And sustainability has been a huge thing for them for a long time. They want to see all of their suppliers have sustainable packaging, more sustainable products themselves, the recyclability to be increased, the awareness of how recycle, you know, all of that really matters. And so that, that's a key topic of conversation. You know, when you walk into a merchant meeting it's going to be, you know, obviously tell me about your product, but tell me about your packaging and what's the sustainability rating on this and tell me about, you know, how you're going to invest in marketing. Like these are all just the key, you know, boxes that they're going to check as they, as they go through the meeting.

And should I be looking at if I have a choice between horizontal packaging and vertical packaging, should I be looking more toward the vertical packaging where my footprint would be less than the horizontal?

Yeah, you want to take up the, you know, obviously you want to create mindfully a good, a good brand presence for your item. But, but additionally, you know, if you've got a product that could go vertical versus horizontal, and I've seen it before, the horizontal product is 10 inches wide and, but you can make it vertical and it can go 10 inches high a lot easier. I would certainly, you know, explore that vertical. The key thing too really to, with packaging is are you, are you creating shelf ready packaging?

Right.

That's a huge thing. Right, that we're trying to lessen the amount of labor dollars being spent on stocking shelves and make it more efficient for our products to flow from Walmart's back door to the side counter and out the front door. And so obviously Walmart has their own initiatives around that, but we have to be, you know, have to be thoughtful about how we do that too as a supplier and making sure that we, you know, know we have shelf ready packaging that works for, for their system.

Now what would be different about getting into Walmart versus getting into Sam's Club?

Yeah, so the big difference is going to be the way they order, right? I mean Sam's Club is going to order in either full pallet or half pallet type quantities. Their programs, a lot of times, especially on new items are in and out type programs versus modularizing you that may bring you in for a two or three month period. And then from there they're going to test and see and then, and they're, they're gonna, it's a lot more bulk and a lot more, I guess probably I wouldn't, I wouldn't call it easier but I would just say a little bit more efficient as it relates to how you can navigate that ecosystem.

If you know what's, I know what Costco's number is. What does Sam's Club expect an SKU to turn per week per store?

That's gonna vary based on, on the category, right? I would tell you that, I would tell you that you know what, what you want to do in that scenario is honestly so I don't do a disservice to your listeners. And naming a number is what is the way to have that conversation is to make sure on the front side that you have a very clear understanding of the expectations of that merchant. Because each one of them will tell you what their expectations are from a terms perspective or a dollar's perspective and you doing your part to meet that expectation. But it's very different from category to category.

So what are some things that we've talked a lot about helping brands get in? So let's take a look at the current landscape for some of our listeners that are on Walmart shelves.

Okay.

Are there any current and current trends, opportunities happening at Walmart that they should be looking out for? Whether opportunities or challenges?

Yeah, so I would say as far as the challenges piece of it goes, it goes back to that idea that there's a lot happening in the E Commerce space. And so with SKU rationalization comes the potential for losing points of distribution. If a Buyer has to make tough calls. And so with that it's with your in store business invest. And what I mean by that is invest with whether that be Walmart connects, whether that's with you guys making sure that you're, you know, utilizing partners that are going to make your brand present and accounted for in front of that merchant and for the consumer. Right. Which is hard to do naturally with Walmart being a, you know, they want the lowest cost, they don't want any marketing dollars in there, but they also want you to invest so you know, make sure that you're investing so that you can continue to hold that spot on shelf. And then the other thing too too, if you want to grow your brands, is make sure that you're participating to your fullest extent in the e commerce realm of Walmart and Sam's having your products there, making sure that they're not just there but they meet all of the requirements that Walmart or Sam's club may have around the imagery and your copy and everything that goes into that. It's so important because algorithms will either help you or hurt you based on how your product looks and is presented on those platforms. You know, I would, I would say that as far as another opportunity or is just making sure that you're willing to lean in, right. Focusing your strategy and your company's strategy for Walmart on exactly what they're focused on because that's really where buyers are going to lean back into you.

So let's talk about the broker relationship now. Some clients I talked to, they said, well we don't need brokers because you know, we can do a meeting ourself. And I, some clients will say they don't want to have a broker because I don't want to pay somebody a percentage of my money to make a phone call and get me a meeting. A good broker does a lot more than make a phone call and get a meeting. So if you would walk us through what does a broker do for me, obviously the broker knows the buyer. The broker can get a meeting infinitely faster than a brand new brand can hope to get a meeting because they don't even know who the right. So we know that that's, that has a value. But once we've gotten past the value of you got the meeting and you have some influence, what else do you bring to the table that that manufacturer, that marketer can't do for themselves?

Yeah, so I tell, I tell individuals this all the time when we talk to, you know, prospective clients is that if, if my Only if my only success for you, if my only job that I do is I get you that meeting, then then I'm not worth. Worth, I'm not worth paying, right? So where our role and where our value really comes to play is actually after the sale. Because the sale, while that can take a lot of time in some instances, that's honestly the easy part, right, is getting a buyer to buy in. And I'm not belittling how hard it is. It's very difficult to make the sale. But whenever you think about everything else that has to be done to create success, that's the least of our worries. And so for us at Blue Ocean, we're investing a lot of money and time into, into big data and analytical tools and resources so that we can, you know, we generate customized reporting for their individual business so it provides actionable insights so they can go and make decisions quickly. We also provide full replenishment, logistics support. So what that means is, is we're going to make sure that, you know, once we've got your network set up with how we're going to shift and flow, we're going to make sure that it does that and we're going to execute on that completely and make sure that your OTIF is always in compliance and we're going to provide you metrics and reporting to understand, you know, root cause analysis of where there are problems and how we can go fix them, whether that be through Walmart or through a third party logistics provider. Additionally, we've got full E Commerce team. So you know, that's everything from item creation, item maintenance all the way through, you know, rich media content development and things of that nature. Making sure that your items are always is in top notch shape and that your content quality scores are going to be off the charts so that you get the benefit from the algorithm, you know. And then we also have a very specific way we look at category and so we'd like to call our category first Mindset. So you're going to have access, with a company like ours, you would have access to really big data like Iri Nielsen, things of that nature that may not necessarily come with every relationship. And so I encourage individuals that are out there, whether it be Walmart or any other retailer, I encourage you to work with, you know, we, the broker is definitely the term but we like to say supplier solutions because it just, it's what we should be doing, right? It's providing solutions to any and every problem or opportunity that our clients meet. And I encourage them, you know, interview everyone that you can find the right fit for you culturally, find the right fit for you as a technology partner and as a, as a sales partner. Because you're right. The perception is I don't need that because I can make a call myself, I can get a meeting myself. And my, my, my pushback to that would be. Well, you're absolutely right. And if that's the only thing that individual or company is providing, you deserve better. And there's a lot better out there.

Yeah. I've seen some of the data you guys pull for your clients. Phenomenal.

I appreciate that. We work hard to make sure that we customize everything. It takes more time that way, but we find that every business is nuanced and it deserves that, you know, attention to detail.

Yeah. I want listeners to understand once you get on the shelf that that's step one is getting the. Yes. And getting on the shelf after that is where all the work really happens. And to be able to drill into all of the different data and figure out what needs to be changed. And as you mentioned, replenishment. The replenishment's not being handled properly. You can end up with empty shelves. And you have to understand your buyer might be dealing with 100 vendors, so your buyer isn't focused on your little single SKU every day and making sure that you're on the shelf and making sure that you're in the right spot and making sure that your inventory is right because you're just one little piece of their business.

Right.

And I think that's one of the big things that a good broker brings to you, that they're filling in for the buyer and supporting the buyer. Not just supporting the brand, but supporting the buyer.

Right, Right. Yeah. It's our job to stay on top of it and really to be able to, we want to be able to solve all your problems without us having to bother a merchant if it's not necessary. Because we want every touch point with that merchant to be nothing but a positive experience and for them to have the most wonderful opinion of our clients. And, you know, there's always going to be problems that arise. And we're fortunate enough that we've got a robust team that can handle that. I mean, you know, at Blue Ocean alone, we've got 175 years worth of internal Walmart experience alone. On our team of individuals who spent, you know, 20, 30 plus years inside the walls there, we've got, you know, tons of individuals who spent their career just selling to these companies. And so we can, we can usually get out in front of everything and make sure that you're going to have success.

How do people get in touch with you if they want to talk to you and learn more about Blue Ocean?

Yeah, absolutely. So we're on, we're on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn all under, you know, Blue Ocean Innovative Solutions. So you can find us there. My LinkedIn handle is just Cameron Jernigan and you can see me there at Blue Oce as well. Happy to chat. We've also got, we've got the Contact Me pages and all that kind of stuff. It actually comes directly. I've got access to that inbox so every time we get one I know exactly what's going on. So I hope if anybody has questions or anything like that that they would reach out and just know that we're here to help. And you know, a phone conversation or a meeting is absolutely free so we can, we can be of assistance, hopefully.

And what's that URL, Cameron?

Yeah. So our website is blueoceanis.com the is stands for innovative solutions but it's just blueoceanis.com that's all 100 work.

And if you go to the show notes at CPG Insiders with the episode with Cameron on it, we'll have links there to the website and for Cameron's contact information. So if you are driving your car right now, you don't need to yank off the road to write that down or commit it to memory because how many times have you heard a URL while you're driving in your car? Oh yeah, I'm going to remember that. Then you get to the outside. What was the URL? I don't remember the URL. So just. We'll make the link of it. Cameron, it's been great having you here with us on CPG Insiders. We really appreciate it. Folks, I want to tell you that if working with Walmart is your goal, you really need to find the right partner. Yes, this is, Cameron is one of those partners and there are other great partners. There are other great companies that you know also service Walmart as there is people who deal with Walgreens and so on and so forth, but you need to find a partner who wants knows that account. Don't fall for the guy who says we call on everybody. No, you don't call on everybody.

No, you don't exactly.

You guys are down the street from Walmart. You're in the building every day. They know your face when you walk in and out of the building. That's the person that you need taking care of your product, not somebody who flies into Walgreens or Walmart and calls on them once every six months.

Months.

That's. That's not who you need for your brand.

Nope, that's. And again, it comes back to. I hate to keep saying it, but Cameron brought it up in the beginning. Somebody who has a relationship in Walmart, that's who you need. It's a key to getting in and of course, success overall. Because once you get in, great, you're in. But now what?

Yeah, the relationships matter. And when you have somebody who's a great broker, and I know I'm using the term instead of innovation, that is what it is. When somebody has a great broker, that buyer knows. And I'm going to equate this to the entertainment industry. When you're in the entertainment industry and let's say you're trying to sell a new television show, well, you need to find an agent who's going to represent your show. Why? Because the networks know that the agent's not going to bring them. Them an absolute garbage show that's not ready to be on tv.

Right.

Because the networks know this agent knows the business. They have to make a living with me. They're not going to bring me bad stuff. Well, I think the same thing happens with brokers. The buyer knows. I've got six other products in my category that Cameron has. Cameron knows what I want, he knows what I need. He knows not to bring me some dog that's going to fail in my category. So I'm going to give him a little more time. I'm going to give him a little more credibility to listen to what he has to say than this person I've never met who just walked in off the street. And I don't know them and they don't know me and don't know what I'm about.

Right?

Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, you got to remember, we live in this community. All of us, myself included, have either worked there, spent our career selling to them. So these are the people that are in our community that go to school with our kids, that are, you know, sitting in the church, you know, with us on Sundays that are, you know, all of those things and it goes a long way. But additionally, just that we really pride ourselves at Blue Ocean on making sure that our, you know, our reputation within the walls remains, you know, untarnished. And the way we do that is just always being focused on bringing great products and leadership, but also making sure that we're always honest and we're upfront with our merchant team so that they know that, that when we say something, they can count on us to make it work.

And I'm going to assume that there are products that people bring to you that you turn down.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, and there's been times where we've had relationships that we've had to, had to terminate. You know, it's, it's part of, it's part of that business. But, you know, the reality is we always want the best for any supplier. And the reality is sometimes, and this is what a lot of brokerages won't tell you is that sometimes that your brokerage isn't the best for that supplier and they need to go down the street to the other brokerage that has a better expertise in their area. And we're always going to stand for that. We're always going to do that. And if that means that we don't get the business but it means they're successful, that makes us happy.

Well, Cameron, thanks for being with us here on CPG Insiders again, folks. If you want to get in touch with Cameron, just go to the Show Notes, the episode with Cameron in it. You'll find all the connections there. Other than that. We will be back with you on the next episode of CPG Insider Insiders. If you're looking to greatly increase sales on your CPG product, don't hesitate to contact us at Jekyll and Hyde Advertising and Marketing. By the way, the only advertising agency with a guaranteed result. Just go to Jekyll Hyde agency.com or feel free to give us a call at 800542.