Law and Order - How to Stay Out of Jail

Foreign. Welcome everybody to another edition of CPG Insiders. I'm your host, Mark Young. My co host, Justin Gerard. I'm coming to you from the beautiful beaches of Florida as Justin is in the summit summer tropical environment known as Detroit. But you've had some warm weather there while I've been down here.

You're the wor. Yeah, we're getting warm weather Monday through Friday but as soon as Saturday hits it's 30 to 40 degrees again. So you know, when I can enjoy it, it's, you know, back to being Michigan, so. Right, yeah.

Well, you know, but hey, it's, it's already March.

There you go, there you go.

I mean good weather's right around the corner. I happen to. I will be back in sunny Detroit tomorrow.

See you get to enjoy it then.

Indeed. Well, Justin, on our last episode we teased out at the very end that we were going to tell people on our next episode how to stay out of jail. And that's a bit hyperbolic. But not totally untrue.

No, it's not totally untrue.

So although most business people don't go to, don't go to prison, don't go to jail, it does happen.

Absolutely.

I'm going to talk about a few cases where this happened. And so first off, let's talk about, since we are in the world of cpg, let's talk about claims and substantiation and things of that nature.

That's a great place to start.

So this falls under the category of the FDA and the ftc. Now the FDA really doesn't come after consumer products. The FDA really controls pharmaceuticals, pharmaceuticals and drugs and monographs and, and things of that nature. And, and they set the determination of what is a drug and what is a supplement and what is a cosmetic and what is a homeopathic product.

Right. They give some of the guidelines the FTC uses.

The enforcement really comes through the ftc.

Exactly.

And there is an FDA FTC Joint Task Force. So the Federal Trade Commission. And again, beware of anything that's any three letter group that starts with an F. The, the Federal Trade Commission, their job is to make sure that the public is safe from bad advertising, false claims, defective products, which like most agencies seemed like a good idea at the time.

Absolutely. I mean actually especially when consumers didn't have access to information.

Like most organizations. It is, it is the nature of all organizations to grow. They grow or they die.

Yeah.

So these three letter agencies have a tendency to grow and they oftentimes grow past their initial intention. So the FTC is who comes after you. Now, you and I, I'll give you an example. You and I will get people who will contact us. They have a new product out, it's on Amazon, it's on their website. And we will go to their website and we will be absolutely terrified by the claims they're making because we know, wow, this is like go to jail stuff.

If they get caught, the amount of times on a weekly basis that we say you can't say that is pretty mind blowing.

So when you're small, when you're selling on your website, you're selling product at a county fair, you are maybe even sliding through Amazon's system. For the most part, you'll stay off the radar from the ftc, the fda.

Yep.

What gets them to pay attention is mass media, but what really, what really gets their attention is consumer complaints. So my first comment is if you're in the area of making health claims, physical claims, bodily claims, you need a, a good trusted FDA FTC attorney on your team. And let me just, I'm going to preface this with we are not giving legal advice today. We are just talking about our experiences today.

Yeah.

This is not. Today's show is not meant as a substitute for a lawyer, for a qualified attorney. So these guys can really look at your claims and they can look at them and say, look, you can't say this. You're, you're a, you're a supplement and you're making the claim that you're a drug.

Well, and, and I know we're going to go into these distinctions, so I don't too much so people can understand that. But, but the other thing too, and you mentioned earlier, is I want to make sure that, that, that our listeners understand that there are a lot of companies and a lot of brands that have been dealing with a lot of issues with Amazon now because Amazon was getting into trouble. Why?

Because they're big enough to be on the radar.

Exactly. And they're getting a lot of complaints. And so they had to start cleaning up their act. So you got a lot of them. All of a sudden they're like, well, why am I getting delisted? And what is all this? And it's because you were saying things that you really couldn't say. You just again, weren't on the radar yet. But Amazon is and they have to be protected because they're liable because this is happening on their platform. So they're also liable for whatever's happening.

So according to the fda, a drug is the only molecule that can that can cause a direct change in the.

Human body, which scientifically makes sense. Right?

So here's an example. I give you a blood pressure med, your blood pressure goes down. If I give you a blood pressure med and your blood pressure is fine, your blood pressure will actually be too low.

Right?

Okay. That's a drug. Drugs mean that they have monographs. Monographs mean they've been through three rounds of clinical trials. That someone has spent hundreds of millions, maybe billions of dollars getting this turned into a drug. Now there's lots of drugs out there that are old drugs that fall in the category of OTC over the counter. So you might be making a formula and you add capsaicin to your, to your product. And now you can make the claims of capsaicin if you have capsaicin in your product at the minimum effective dose, the medium. So what can you say for capsaicin? It is a counter irritant and it causes vasodilation because it can heat up an area which causes blood flow. And then what are the claims you can make for blood flow? Well, claims for blood flow can be things like temporary arthritis, relief inflammation. So those are drugs. The next group is supplements. Vitamins, nutritional. According to the FDA and the ftc, but mostly in the FDA in this side. Vitamins assist the body in a process. They do not have a direct impact on the body. Now I'm going to tell you, this is just Mark's opinion. There are enormous amount of supplements on the market that have immediate impact on the human body that have drug like effects.

Agreed.

But if they. But in the world of the fda, if someone didn't pay a billion dollars for a monograph, it doesn't exist.

Just because it can doesn't mean you can say it.

So I'm going to give you an example. You can take a toenail fungus product made out of something like tea tree oil and paint your toes with it every day and it will clear up toenail fungus. But none of those items have ever had someone spend a billion dollars to get them turned into a drug. So according to the fda, you can only cure toenail fungus with a very dangerous oral medication. A medication whose side effects include blowing out your liver and death. Yeah, but this is the only way you can treat toenail fungus. So if you happen to be a company who makes a product, really good product out of tea tree oil and you know that it clears up toenail fungus, you can't see say that. Now you might be able to say that it treats foot fungus or the appearance, because that's a claim it can make, but you can't say it clears up toenail fungus. So, so these are the things you have to look at. Now the next class I'm going to jump into is cosmetic cosmetics are exactly what they say. So let's say you've come up with a new line of face cream and your face cream makes crow's feet fade away. You can't say that because that's a medical claim. Now you might be able to say reduces the appearance of fine lines if you've run clinical trials to back that up. So as an example, let's say you had an observational study. And your observational study said, we recruited 20 women. And these 20 women had these wrinkles. And these wrinkles averaged X number of wrinkles at X number of depth. We then gave them the product. We recorded their use of the product over a certain current period of time. We exam re examined them on a regular basis, maybe every two weeks, every four weeks they came back in the clinic. We re examined them, we had a doctor take a look at them, we did photographs of them. And lo and behold, after using this lotion for eight weeks, 78% of the women in the study showed considerable, significant, dramatic, depending on what we can get away with here, reduction in the appearance of the fine lines. That's a cosmetic. Same would apply for hair care. You cannot tell people that if they apply protein to their hair, their hair is going to get healthier. You might say it might appear healthy. You might say it will appear shinier.

Right.

You might say that shiny hair looks healthier.

Right.

These are opinions, these are not scientific claims. Okay? The last group is what we call homeopathy, homeopathic products. Now, homeopathy has something called the homeopathic pharmacopoeia, which is a big homeopathic dictionary from 1934. And in it you can go and look at these things. Now, homeopathy is basically the practice of dangerous substances that can cause harm, can also, when used in small doses, can also cause relief.

Right. Microdosing.

Now, I've been really doing some research on homeopathy, Justin, just recently for our new book. And what I have found is the FDA has made a new ruling and you'll see it in the book when I send you the manuscript. They are going after homeopathy.

They have been for a while. I mean, all those issues in California, even that have been coming up.

I mean, but they're going, you read what I've, what I've dug up, they're going hot and heavy after homeopathy.

Yeah, I mean, they've been trying to tear it down for a while.

So my recommendation to use do you folks out there making products. If you're planning on going homeopathic, you might want to reconsider that. And just to be sure, homeopathy is not the same as natural and organic. No, homeopathy is subatomic. Microscopic doses of dangerous substances. Things like cobra venom and gila monster saliva and all kinds of bat venom, all kinds of weird things. Which by the way, again, I've seen these things work.

Yeah, yeah. It's not that it doesn't work.

So I don't want you to think that I'm saying that homeopathy is fake. But the FDA has a new ruling out, Justin, where they said homeopathy has no basis in science and is quackery. Why is that? Because we need to protect big Pharma.

Well, of course.

That'S just a little opinion.

I mean, it's the same reason why supplements don't actually impact the body in any way, shape or form.

Right. Because according to the government, if I give you 500mg of D mannose every two hours to treat your UTI infection, and statistically and scientifically, we know it will have the exact same outcome as giving you the. The antibiotic Bactrum. I can't tell you that. Now, I could tell you that if I decided I'm going to go spend a billion dollars on D. Manos and get a monograph for it, but the problem is I can't patent D. Manos because it's been around forever and it just happens to be a sugar. So there's no way for me to patent it. So why would I spend the billion dollars when I'm going to spend all this money and everybody else is going to sell it?

You can't make any money off of that.

Right. So if you can't patent it, it doesn't make sense to research it. Okay, so that's. That's kind of where we're going on on this list. Now the next list we're going to talk about is class action suits.

Right. Well, before we transition really quick, Mark, so what. What I was curious about too for the listeners is, and again, we're not lawyers. We're not going to go through all the different scenarios of how to frame any type of claims based on the classification. We're not going to do that. Right. But like you said, ensure that you find a good FDA and FTC lawyer.

Right.

Do you have any Advice for any listeners on really how to do that. Right. Because I mean, anyone get a law degree and say they can do something, Are there any questions to ask? Are there any. Are there any ways to.

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Understand the pedigree, right. To make sure that you're finding the right partner. Yes.

So what we look for, and you can always reach out to us and we can do introductions, but what we look for is a law firm where they have employees in the firm who are former FDA FTC employees and where they have other backgrounds, where they have pharmaceutical background, they have nutritional background, they have a chemistry background. Where they're qualified to do this. Because Justin makes a good point. If you're an engineer, you can engineer anything. If you're a doctor, you can come, you can go do brain surgery, even if you're a podiatrist, as long as somebody's willing to let you in their head. So in the world of law, you have all these specialties. Now the beauty of this is, let's say you go to that lawyer and that lawyer writes you a letter and says, these claims are good. And you go and you publish your claims. The nice part of it is usually the FDA and the FTC will say, okay, you did your due diligence, you paid for a lawyer. This is a, this is a qualified law firm. You paid for it. You followed their advice. You're not a lawyer, you're a marketer. So you have. So they rule that you have the right to rely upon the attorney's opinion. So if the attorney writes you a letter that says, I believe these claims are safe, you go and run them. The FTC says you can't do this, then as a rule, you'll get a 90 day cease and desist letter. Take this off your package. Take this off your website. Stop saying this now. Before, again, I'm glad you stopped us there. I want to point something out. The thing that will get you in hot water faster than anything is consumer complaints.

Yeah. Yes.

When consumers start complaining in one of two ways, they start complaining. One of three. They start complaining that they got the product and the product injured them. They started start complaining that they got the product and the product failed, or they start complaining that you had a warranty or a money back guarantee and you didn't honor it.

That's a big one.

And that you're right, that's the one that will nail you to the wall.

Yes. Yeah. You have to be very careful about that.

So here's the advice on that make sure your product works. Step one, seriously, make sure the product works. Don't make claims you can't back up. Two, when a customer complains, deal with.

It, take it seriously.

They'll send you a letter, they'll send you an email. Have social media accounts that are open that are monitored daily because this is where you're going to find these complaints.

Yes.

And have someone on your team that's managing that social media that can immediately jump in there and say, justin, I'm so sorry you had this bad experience with our product. Is it possible you didn't follow the directions? If you'd send me an email, I'll contact you directly and I'll walk you through how the product works. And if it still fails, I'll make sure you get a full refund. Right now, Justin, as you know, not only does that head off the problems, a lot of them, it also makes the public look at the social media and say, wow, these guys really care.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it serves multiple functions when you're responsive in that manner.

Now if you offer a money back guarantee and you start stiffing people. Oh, soon as those letters start piling up at the ftc, you're going to get a visit.

Oh, yeah.

And it may not even be a phone call, it may literally be walking through the front door one day.

Oh, yeah. Well, and, and, and this is a big thing we always talk about because we, we again, if you've got a great product, we love using a money back guarantee as a way to help consumers get over their fears. Right. You need to make sure that you're communicating simply, effectively, wide open how that guarantee works, because that's the other thing. You offer a money back guarantee and nobody can figure out how to actually get it if they want to use it. Right.

You haven't given them your address, you.

Haven'T given them an email on the website or anything. It's just like, yeah, no, it's. We're going to put it as a headline in an ad and that's just to get you to click.

Right. You can only activate the warranty on leap years and so on and so forth.

Exactly. You need to send this over to Asia, then we're going to send it over to England. Yep.

And if you're offering a money back guarantee, then put it in your. It's a line item in your budget.

Yeah. Because it's going to happen.

Right. So make an estimate for what the, what the break rate's going to be and that's part of your Operating budget.

It has to be.

Now let's move on to the class action suits. When we're looking at the class action suits, these are basically scumbag lawyers. It's the best way I can put it.

Who.

Most of them are in California, Mark. Most of them are in California. And just. I'm gonna tell you, I've had. I've. We've had clients that have had. Had six that I know of. Six lawsuits from the same law firm with the same defendant in every one. In every case.

Unreal.

What they do is they look for a product where they think they can find a hole in the guarantee, where they think they can find a hole in an ingredient. They then have. They already have a victim. The victim then goes to a store, buys the product, claims the product, fails. The lawyer now files a class action suit because he only needs one person in his class, and now he can invite everybody in America to join the class. And the more people join, the more money the lawyer gets.

Yeah.

And we've all seen the big ones. You know, have you been exposed to asbestos? Have you drank the water at Camp Lejeune? But these things happen for toothpaste and face cream and hairspray and just normal things. So the game that these guys do is they're basically playing blackmail. They're not looking to go to court. I file a class action suit. Cost me nothing to file the suit. I hold you hostage, eventually you write me a check for 50 or 100 grand to get me to drop the case.

Right.

But that can add up.

Yeah.

Now we're going to talk about our last legal quagmire, and that is, Justin, this is partly what has happened in the way that some states and some cities are now becoming hostile to business.

Oh, absolutely. But one last thing on the class action is before we move over, is that another reason why you always, always, always make sure you've got liability insurance?

You certainly want to have it. And by the way, no retailer will take you in without $5 million in liability insurance.

Right.

So New York recently. So I want. I want to preface this. This is not my defense of Donald Trump. This is my observation of a lawsuit. New York Ag Letish James brought charges against Donald Trump saying that he fraudulently borrowed money in New York. They're claiming that he grossly overestimated the value of his assets on his loan applications.

Okay.

Now, first off, when you're in business and you fill out a loan application, the estimate, what you're putting on your list of assets is your estimate of what it's worth.

Mm.

So it could be worth more. More in your mind than it's, than it's worth to somebody else. But it needs to be within reason. Okay.

Confirmation bias might take over. Right.

So she went out and said, well, you cheated the banks because you lured the banks into doing business with you when they shouldn't have and they wouldn't have. Therefore, you wrongfully profited from this money that you borrowed and therefore should give it back to the State of New York. Now, let me add to this that the banks involved testified in the, in the trial that Donald Trump paid every penny back. He paid all the interest, that the banks were satisfied with the business relationships and that the banks all profited from their relationships with Donald Trump. So there's actually no victim.

Okay.

But the state decided they were coming after them. Now, he got a 400, you know, 450 million dollar judgment, a three year order that he can't run a company in New York. Now here's where I'm going with this. This sounds, you look at this and you say, well, that's because people hate Donald Trump. I'm not Donald Trump. Nobody's going to come after me.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't hate Donald Trump. I'm not this political figure.

Right. It feels, it feels like a political.

Move and it was a political move.

Right. So to your point, I'm not running for office.

Right. So they're not going to bother me.

Right. Okay.

This is what's called crossing the Rubicon. Once, once they figure out when a government entity figures it out that we can land hundreds of millions of dollars, it's kind of hard to put that genie back in the bottle. So Letitia James in New York, I mean, this Trump case just happened. She's now filed a new case. Now, the governor of New York, Kathy Hochschild, gave a press conference saying, folks, you know, New York businesses, don't worry, we're not coming after. You don't all need to get up and move because we're going to ruin all of your lives. Because that's what everyone's going assume.

Right.

Leticia James has already filed a billion doll lawsuit against JBS Group.

What's that?

They're meat packers, okay? Not political. Nobody's running for president. There's, you know, nobody at JBS is running for a political office. They just happen to be the world's largest beef producer.

Okay? So what they do.

They issued a public statement saying that they had a goal of becoming carbon neutral or Net Zero by 2040.

Okay? Right.

It's a little ways off, but not a lot. Not far off, but.

No. I mean, not when you're trying to do that. Yeah.

It's only 16 years out.

Right.

So they got a 20, 40 net zero goal. Now, let my. Let me remind people there is a difference between I have a contract to be net zero and we have a goal of becoming net zero.

We're hoping to. Right.

Because we set goals for our company all the time. And sometimes we make them and sometimes we don't.

Right. I don't get sued.

But having. But making goals is a good idea.

Absolutely.

So I credit them for. For having a goal.

Yeah.

Leticia James said their goal is insincere because their, Their. Their plan to get there is impossible because eating meat ruins the environment, and therefore net zero is an impossibility unless they stop selling meat.

Okay.

So the goal is we're going to bankrupt them. We're going to bankrupt the world's largest meat producer.

But. Okay, sorry. Okay.

And take their money. Now, the same thing is happening in the. In the guns business. You see, the Remington just left New York after being there for, God knows, a hundred years, whatever the case is. So businesses are fleeing New York. So where I'm going with this is, as you're starting your business, where should it be located? New York's a problem. California is a problem. Chicago's a problem. There's some other places that are becoming problematic. But where I'm going with this is you need to figure out who's friendly to business and who's hostile to business. So when I say friendly, it could be taxation, it could be unionization, it could be things like happening in New York.

Yeah.

Let me give you an example. What just happened in California? California just instituted a $20 minimum wage for fast food workers.

I mean, so a cheeseburger's got to be, what, $10 now?

Yeah, I actually have. I actually know a friend who owns a large chain of fast food restaurants in California. He's just letting them close down as the leases run up. He's putting a key in the door.

So I figured.

So. But let me show you how the game's played. It's $20 minimum wage for all fast food workers. Unless you work at Panera. Brett, I'm not kidding you.

That's not real.

That is very real. Look it up.

Serious.

This is coincidental. The bill requiring $20 minimum wage says the $20 minimum wage rule does not apply to any fast food restaurants or outlets who break. Who bake fresh bread on premise.

Why does that have anything to do with it?

Because the president of Panera Bread gave the Governor of California $380,000 for his reelection campaign. That's probably a coincidence.

Well, right, right.

And the governor and everyone is claiming there's no wrongdoing there. Nothing illegal was done. And by the way, potentially nothing illegal was done.

Right.

Something very immoral and fattening happened. But. Right, but this is the game. When you're listening to this show, you don't have $388,000 to give the governor a donation probably for his reelection. So you want to look into where you're locating. So my advice is that look at the local taxes, look at the state taxes, look at the union requirements, look at what the, what are the standards here that I have to go through. I'm going to go back to California for a minute. California is almost impossible to, to have employees in California got rid of. There's no such thing as a part time employee in California. So what do you mean legally? There's legally. No, there is no legal difference between a part time and a full time employee in California. Okay, so you can have a part time employee, but you still have to provide them all the benefits of a full time employee. Oh, so you hire somebody for 10 hours a week, you're giving them health insurance and everything else that's expensive. And follow this. If you have employees in California, I mean even the tiniest business, and you have employees in California, you have to, you have to provide them with a retirement program.

Some of these small businesses don't have one for themselves.

Of course they don't. And, and that's why.

Retirement program.

Yeah, and that's why, that's why I'm telling people this. The last thing I want you to look at is what's the tort laws in this, in the state that you're about to locate in. And when I say tort laws, how easy is it to sue you? So in some states it's crazy easy to file, you know, basically slip and fall cases against manufacturers and blackmail them for money. In other states that's harder to do. These are the things you need to look at.

And, and, and, and so when you're, when you're talking about these things. Right. And so I'm, I'm going, I'm going to Resources. So we already know, hey, fda, ftc, we're going to look for a lawyer that specializes in it, have experience there that have been in the building, those kinds of things. Who are we going to go to to Help guide us through this process.

Justin. I would probably. I would Google states with the lowest taxes on business. I would Google states with the friendliest labor laws, states with the most business friendly tort laws.

Okay.

And kind of make your own little spreadsheet and look at all. Because it's, it's not going to be one state that, that falls on everything. I will tell you that states like Florida and California or Florida and Texas are going to be pretty far up the list.

Okay.

Tennessee, Nevada, Utah, South Dakota. I mean, these states are all going to be pretty high on the list in most of these areas. But there's a. I'm gonna, I'm gonna end this with a, with a story that was given to me 40 years ago by my own attorney who is still one of my best friends. And I was just a struggling entrepreneur, hadn't figured out how to make money. And he looked at me and he goes, he was already very successful. He looks at me and goes, you know, you're a really smart guy, and one of these days you're really going to figure out how to make money. When you do, you're going to make a ton of money. And he said, as soon as you do, pay attention to what I'm saying, because you're going to have to start a whole new career. And he says, your entire new career is going to be how to keep the money is because there's going to be scammers, there's going to be relatives, there's going to be investments, there's going to be nonprofits, there's going to be state agencies, federal agencies, government agencies that are all going to be lawyers, lawsuits that are all going to be figuring out, how do I take that money away. I want to assure everybody that was incredible wisdom and advice and has been extremely true. This is also, by the way, one of the reasons why nearly every lotto winner has gone broke after winning the lotto.

Yeah.

Because when you, when you develop your own wealth over years, these other skills kind of are lessons along the way that you start to learn when your wealth is sudden and overnight you have none of those skills.

Right.

So we see it happen with athletes, with, you know, rappers. And how many of these guys have you seen? Like, who's the guy I'm thinking about, who's the guy that did can't touch this. Hammer time. Yeah. MC Hammer. MC Hammer was the hottest thing in video and then he was in bankruptcy. Mike Tyson probably made a billion dollars in debts and then went and ended up in bankruptcy because they didn't they didn't get the skills that went with it.

Yep. No, I mean, that makes sense. So I guess one last question back to the, the state's conversation. Does it matter and is there a difference between where the company is incorporated versus where it is physically located?

Certainly there's a lot of companies that incorporate in Delaware and Nevada and that's.

What I'm saying as it relates to these laws. And when you're talking about torts and, and, and taxation. And is that a difference for, for our listeners? Yeah.

There's a legal theory which is called nexus. And nexus is basically where have you established business.

Okay.

So if your company has a Delaware corporation but your office is in, in California, it's a good chance they can sue you under California laws.

Okay.

Where Delaware will kick in is when we start talking about federal laws. So Delaware will kick in if you decide you need to go bankrupt.

Okay.

Because now you can have Delaware's version of bankruptcy laws, but where you're located is where you're going to have the problem. But the best thing you can do is try to not have the problems. They will happen.

But something is going to happen.

But hope is not a plan.

No. You've got to mitigate risk.

Yeah. Don't just hope nobody sues you just hope that the irs, they're not the irs. But the FDA doesn't notice you.

Right.

Assume you are. And I'm going to give you another piece of advice that I was given years ago from my buddy Chuck Woolery. And Chuck had said to me, just assume that everything you do in your life is being videoed.

Yeah.

And if you do that, it will put you in a, in a different position. So even when you post to social media, can this be used in court against me? You send an email. Can this email be. Yeah. Because the answer is yes, this email can be used as evidence against you. So even when somebody calls you to complain, your response needs to be right on and you need to write that response knowing this email may be used against me in a court of law. This even goes, folks, to internal emails amongst your own people that could be called in a lawsuit. So even your own communication with your own people. So we're seeing some of these cases where people within the company actually sent emails knowing that a product had, it was, had a dangerous side effect. They're done because your own proof is going to prove that this happened. So take that for what it's worth. This goes back to something we've said in the past. It's something that's going to be in the new book, and that is you do not save money with bargain legal health, bargain accounting help, you know, or bargain marketing help. Because when your professionals aren't at, aren't the best, you get what you pay for. There's a reason why there are three thousand dollars an hour lawyers and hundred dollar an hour lawyers. It's not just the office space and the, in the nice suits. There's a purpose that they can charge that $3,000.

Right. And as you said, the intent of even this discussion, A, not to give legal advice, but also B, wasn't to try to set the expectations that you need to be a lawyer and you need to understand all of these things. No, the intent is to give you enough information to be able to ask the right questions and then go surround yourself with the right people.

That is the right thing to do. Well, that's it for today. I hope this, I hope this episode was, was helpful and, and I don't want it to be frightening. I'm not trying to scare people out of business. I have eight different companies. I'm, I'm the last person. I love entrepreneurship. I think entrepreneurship is what makes America great. It is, is one of the major differences between us and the rest of the world is this whole opportunity that someone from nowhere can rise up and build. So I mean, look at like Damon John. Damon and Damon and I just gave a speech together, you know, from a kid on the streets in New York that went out and just started hustling his own T shirts. And now you know where he's at? He's on Shark Tank and he's built Fubu and he's got other brands. So I mean, it is the pathway to success. Entrepreneurship is the pathway to success and independence.

Well, of course it is. But, but again, to your point, Mark, nobody goes into business to stand still. The goal is to create something larger, is to grow. And as you grow, your risk will grow with you. And the best thing that you can do is mitigate it early and understand it early so that as you scale, and I hope that you do, because especially if you're in our industry, the only reason you're getting bigger is because consumers are enjoying their experience with your brand and with your product. So that means that you're making a good impact. But you have to understand that just because you're doing good in the world doesn't necessarily mean that nothing bad can happen to you. So. Right.

Just be prepared and the mistakes you make early on can come back, can come back to bite you because sometimes they can't be erased.

Right?

You can't erase. And you can delete an email. You can't erase it.

Oh, and I don't know is not a legal defense or I didn't know. Sorry. Sorry.

So that's it for today. If you like today's episode, go to wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a five star review. We appreciate you. We and I want you to know that we appreciate the fact that you take this time out of your day to listen to us. We, we, we know how valuable time is and we produce this because, you know, we don't have commercials. We're not making money on it. We produce this because we love the industry. We love entrepreneurship. We're a big part of the CPG world. And what we're really trying to do with this podcast is to save people from making critical errors early in their business so that they can see tomorrow so that they do have the opportunity to grow. We'll see you on the next episode of CPG Insiders. Thanks for listening. If you're looking to greatly increase sales on your CPG product, don't hesitate to contact us at Jekyll and Hyde Advertising and Marketing. By the way, the only advert agency with a guaranteed result. Just go to jekyllheidagency.com or feel free to give us a call at 800-500-4210.