Unlock the Secrets to Building a Lasting CPG Brand

Foreign. So, everybody, welcome back to CBG Insiders. I'm your host, Justin Gerard. I'm actually flying solo today, so. So for all of you, I miss Mark too. But I have an amazing guest today for you. His name is Paul Peric. Paul Percy is the creative director here at our agency. Does phenomenal work. And you know what, if he wants to, you know what, we're not going to cover his resume. His work speaks for itself anyway.

So, yeah, some might say.

Now, come on, come on. So, but today we're going to cover a really exciting topic to me, and I think you're all going to love it. So really what we're going to be talking about today is we want to help you understand how to build a brand that can last, that can scale. And there are some foundational activities and there are some crucial elements when you're going into developing your brand and developing your communications that without it, you could create some pitfalls for yourself. You could almost create, in my opinion, with my experience here. And I'm going to let Paul dive in a little bit more as we go through it. But without the work that we're going to cover today, I think what you're doing is you're making the work almost harder for yourself. You're going on a journey without a compass. And in my mind, in the work that we've done so far with clients and that Paul's done here with us, it gives us that compass, it gives us that direction, and it really helps us identify how do we connect who we are and how we help our clients connect who we are to the customer, to the audience that they want to reach and continue to do that over and over and over again. So it's extremely powerful. So to start off again, first, Paul, welcome. Thank you, CPG Insiders. Thank you. We're so excited that you are here. A little upset that your beard's better than mine, but we'll. I'll get past that.

So I used to really hate this beard, but then it grew on me.

Come on, you can't hate that beard. It's not a thing. So let's jump right in. Right. So we're talking about how to build a brand that lasts. So. So to start off, Paul, what we're covering is the concept of an organizing idea. That's what I wanted to talk about. So if you could high level, kind of explain to the audience what is an organizing idea. Sure.

An organizing idea is, you know, it's sort of a North Star idea, I guess, is another way of Thinking about it and tends to be the idea that sits above all other ideas. Right. And you develop it in. In order to not have to constantly be reinventing the wheel so that you have a strategically sound messaging system that you can sort of cross reference with knowing your customer. Right? If you know your customer and you know what they, how they want to be spoken to, you can speak to them in a way that is both adherent to your brand, but it's also, also strategically sound when it comes to the messaging that they need to hear based on where they are in the customer journey. So if you think about it sort of as an umbrella that all other ideas can sort of hang off of. And, you know, when we talk about developing an organizing idea, it really comes out of. And where it sort of came from or where I understand where this concept came from is really a reaction to the new way that we market and advertise, right? Because back, you know, in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, even up into the 90s, you were doing TV, radio and print. And so it was really easy to sort of understand, okay, I have a cohesive message within, within those, those sort of silos. And with the sort of advent of digital marketing and all of these other new ways of getting your message out, social media, et cetera, there was a hunger to find a way within the industry to find a way to hang everything together cohesively so that you could hit a bunch of different audiences where they were. And so if you look back retroactively at some of these brands that were, you know, have been big all throughout the 20th century, a lot of them have gone back and said, okay, well, what is our organizing idea for this particular time in our, in our existence? But brands today have the benefit of starting from scratch and being able to always, you know, have a cohesive messaging system. You know, it really is about not being fragmented. And because we know a brand is so much more than colors and fonts and, you know, design and copy, a brand is every single touch point that you have, you know, with a, you know, with, with a, with a product, you have to make sure that it's. All of that's coming from the same place. And if you have a well established organizing idea, it can. And then it becomes scalable. From a marketer standpoint, the messaging becomes scalable and easily repeatable in a way that is more efficient, it's more cohesive, and it resonates with the customer a lot better. That was a long answer, but that's.

You know, no, no, no, no, this is, this is good. So for our audience, first question I think some of our listeners may have is, so what's the difference between an organizing idea and a mission statement?

Yeah, well, you know, it's, that's an interesting question. You know, a mission statement, if you think about sort of foundational messaging from a, from a brand or a, I'll say a brand perspective, you know, you always hear, you know, mission, vision, values, purpose statement, you know, and unless you're sort of tapped into the nuances of each one of those core values, I think I don't know if I mentioned that or not. Unless you're tapped into the nuances of what those are, they could easily get confused. And when you're talking about a mission, I like to look at it as.

The.

Almost like the how we do something, right? Like, if we're talking about, say, you know, a beverage brand and their mission is to say, you know, deliver high quality, you know, drinks to, you know, moms that need a pick me up in the afternoon.

Okay. Right.

That's, that's how they're achieving their goals.

Right?

Their vision might be, I want to be this in the future or that in the future, or this is where we want to go. But an organizing idea is sort of like the, like I said, it's sort of like a North Star umbrella idea that feeds campaign ideas, right? So it's a little bit more of a creative guidepost more than it is an internal pathway for how you, how you're going to do business.

Okay, so how about this? Yeah. Give us an example of an organizing idea.

So, you know, I can give you the easiest one that I always go back to. And, you know, I did not work on the Swoosh brand, so I don't, I don't profess to sort of understand how they came up with all of the messaging. But when you look at a brand like Nike, they know who they are, you know, and they, they understand their values, they understand their purpose and why they exist. And because of that, they were able to say, okay, well, if we stand for athletes, right, that's our brand. We, you know, that's, that's who we are. We can create a world where we can encourage people to just do it. Now, that also became their tagline, but it doesn't have to be, and it probably shouldn't be, but in this example, it's just the easiest one to understand. So within, within the ecosystem of, of the Nike messaging, you've got a purpose statement. We stand for athletes. If you have A body, you're an athlete. They have an organizing idea. Just do it. Doesn't matter what it is. That's where the campaigns come in. So when we talk about understanding our audience and we say, well, we know that female runners between the ages of 18 and 25 are going to need this sort of messaging, they can say, okay, well, as long as that ladders up to this idea of just doing it, then we can make this ad, we can make this campaign. And so when you're talking about an overarching idea like a Nike, you're saying, just do it. Okay, well, all of the campaigns that exists for all of the different audiences can hang off of that organizing idea. And while they might be communicated differently to different people, it still is going to feel like it's part of the just do it North Star communicative statement.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, what the organizing idea will do is, as you said, it will provide brands with that North Star, that guide for anything creative that they do, that they do. It must ladder back up to this. If it disconnects from this, then we can't do it. That's number one.

That's number one. Yeah.

Okay, so the number two is the result for the customer is that it doesn't matter what will lack a better term audience segment that you are, everyone is going to essentially have a cohesive experience with the brand is just catered to who they are and to what their needs are, so on and so forth. But everything's going to feel the same.

Yes, that's all. That's 100 true. Yeah.

Okay, so. So you said something else that I heard. And so of course, I always want to make sure I didn't mishear anything, but one of the things that you mentioned when you were going through the Nike example was you started off by stating their purpose and then you went to just do it like you were making that connection that. Okay, so based on this purpose, now this makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. The, the.

So into the making the organizing idea, if you just unconsciously started with that brand's purpose. So what are the elements that go into getting to this organizing idea?

Well, you know, first of all, you have to know who you are, right. As a brand, you have to understand who you are and why you exist.

Right.

Because if you don't know who you are and why you exist, nobody else is going to know and they're not going to care.

Right.

So it's that old why do you exist and why should anyone care?

Right.

I mean, that's a standard marketing sort of trope. So if you truly understand why you exist and you truly understand who you are as a brand, then what you're doing, in essence is you're saying, this is how we act. This is who we are. This is why we exist and we have these values. And then you can say, okay, you can start that conversation just like if. If you were talking to a friend, you could say, justin, do you club Baby Seals?

Well, no.

Okay, then we can be friends, right? We have shared values, right? We can start from that place. And so if you can connect those shared values, if you understand your customer well enough and you then understand your brand, or, I'm sorry, your product positioning well enough, and you understand the customer need, right? So there's customer need, customer desire, your purpose and your product positioning. And those strategic pillars, if you can line those up, you can understand exactly what your customers are going to want to hear at whatever customer journey moment they're in. And from that, you can develop a strategically sound organizing idea. So in the Nike example, if they didn't know why they existed and they didn't say, we exist to support athletes, and if you have a body, you're an athlete, right? And if you are an athlete, you understand this idea of, you know what, one more pushup, one more mile, one more. This one, I just need to do it. I just need to do it because that's how I'm going to get better. And they tapped into that, right? And they said, oh, well, here's. Here's a shared value that we have with these people. So just do it. Oh, my gosh. But not only is that a great tag or a great organizing idea, but it just happens to be a phenomenal tagline because it gives us permission to scale things differently and to talk to different people. And so the elements that you need to find out, aside from your brand and knowing who you are, right, because that in and of itself can be a task. You have to understand your audience and why they're going to care. That's the only way that you can actually truly sort of identify what an organizing idea could be that's going to speak to the most amount of people so that you can get the most amount of sales. Because really, that's what we're here to do.

So you said a few things that were interesting to me. So step one, and I don't want to completely just run over some of this stuff, is what you talked about, because you started off with terms like, you need to understand who you are Your purpose, your values. You need to understand your customers values and their purpose and why they're here. And then you went into what we are. We're used to talking about, for lack of a better term in advertising and marketing. Right. Which is great. Okay, what do they want or need? And then, okay, what can we do and how can we sell that to them? Right. And so I don't want to, I don't want to kind of overstep the beginning because I. Because again, this is, this is, this is a huge part. Right. And we're talking about. And we're having a conversation about building a brand that lasts. Right. So there is a difference between creating a message that can sell some stuff for a little while and developing a brand that lasts that. Developing relationships with customers that last. Right. Those are different things. And so. And I think that's the biggest difference for me and through my education. And I just, I want to make sure that our listeners are kind of seeing that same value that what we're talking about doing is doing the work to understand who you are, which is very difficult to do, but also understanding who the customer is so that you can create a lasting relationship. And if we want to get to the. The bottom line of things. So you can create customer advocacy.

Yeah.

Not just a sale.

Right, right.

Because you can get lucky and sell something to somebody one time. Absolutely. I mean, that can be done, no problem. But there's a difference between creating that relationship. And I think that's lost a lot of the time that, especially in the world of cpg. So often we look at it as such a transactional industry. And I think that's a mistake for brands out there. And it doesn't matter if you're the CEO, if the cmo, doesn't matter if you're there and you're, you're behind the brand and you're out there like, yeah, I'm trying to get that sale. I get that. But that's just a transaction.

Yeah.

Who I have never spoken to, and most entrepreneurs that I speak to the first thing that comes out of their mouth when I say, so why'd you create this thing? Like, why'd you create it? It isn't to make money.

Right.

Their answer is, I saw this problem and it was really bugging me. And so I created, I wanted to, I wanted to solve it, and then I wanted to help more people solve that. Right. So you're trying to create a relationship and you're trying to create an impact. If you don't understand who you are and who your customer is, then you're never going to create the impact that you envision being able to because you're not going to get to the core of really the impact you're making, your brand can make, your product can make. Yeah, I mean, am I hearing you correctly? I don't want this to feel like it's just like a checkbox to say, hey, so this is making it so that it's easier to make ads. No, that's not the point.

No, Justin, there's, there's a lot to unpack there. So let me start by answering. I think the last point that you made is that, you know, this is all about sales, right? Let's, let's, let's not forget that this is art for commerce, right? And so, you know, we need to make sure that we understand that this is not, this is not a bunch of foo foo crap that, you know, is like sort of that romantic, you know, advertising that, that everyone sort of, you know, bemoans. It's, this is, it's really about what you said, turning transaction into advocacy.

Right?

And the only way that you're going to create advocates is if they align with your brand so much that they say, you know what, I'm down to my last dollar. Do I buy lunch or do I buy this thing? And if you are providing more value than the money that they have in their pocket. And value can be established in a number of different ways, but from the perspective of the creative development and the strategically sound communications, that sort of, you know, you would expect from an agency that knows what they're doing, what they're going to do is they're going to do a combination of the two of the things that you just talked about. They're going to say, okay, what do we know now? And how can we make something so that someone can get sales immediately? Because that entrepreneur, especially, especially the entrepreneurial types and the CPG types, they need sales, right? Yes, we've solved the problem, but that sometimes gets lost in the, hey, I need to make payroll, I need to raise money, I need to sell some stuff right now. And I'm certainly empathetic to that. But at the same time, we can't rely on sort of blitzing all the time and forever. There's a place for that. Like I said, there's a story I tell about a different client that an old client that they did a blitz and it was one of the best performing days for their particular, their product, but it did nothing to further the brand. You know, and you can't always rely on those blitzes to make enough sales to sustain and then also turn those people into advocates. And then the other part that you, that you sort of started off with was this idea of building relationships and turning, turning, you know, transaction into advocacy. And if you think about it like a marriage, you sort of understand for all those people out there that are married or that have ever been in a long term relationship, you know, that's essentially what it is, right? You can have your one night stands and those are your blitzes and all that other stuff. And it's like, hey, buy my product. Buy it, buy it, buy it, right? And you're going to get some people. But if you want that long term relationship, you need to have those shared values and you need to express that through sustained, cohesive communication. And the best way that I found to do that is to, is to both understand who you are as a brand and who it is that you're talking to. And then, you know, to layer that on top being able to understand when to talk to them and how. And that's what we call the experience base. And you know, we can, we could talk about that another, another podcast. But you know, if we're talking about, you know, building a brand that, that lasts, it's a super important part of doing it. Because like I said before, you can't, you can't cut corners anymore and get lucky on. Hey, you know, I had this waking dream of a tagline. I went into work the next day, I made a TV spot, a print ad and a radio spot. And man, now everyone buys my product and they're passing it down to their kids like that used to work, it doesn't really anymore. And so part of, because our attention spans are two seconds, so you have to have the recall, right? And part of being able to do that is developing this organizing idea so that you can both do all the things that I already said, right? The cohesiveness, the communication, all the brand touch points, but to also be agile, and I don't mean working in agile, which is an aside, by the way, one of the worst things you could possibly do if you're creative, but to be agile and to shift when necessary to find out what's not working and to shift and say, okay, we need to figure out how to make this more effective. And the only way to do that is to have a solid communication plan driven by a strategically sound organizing North Star idea. It's just the best way to do it. And it takes a little bit of work up front. But like I said before, it's not to say that we can't do those sort of blitzes to get more sales for more people more often. We just can't only do that.

Well, and again, you said a lot of things there.

I say a lot of things a lot of times.

Well, I mean, you're a creative director, you're supposed to justification. Yeah, exactly. But you said a lot of things there. And this is something that I want to make sure that people understand. So one is you talked about the changing landscape. Okay. So, so even unpacking that at the top level. Right. The marketplace is not the same. Okay. We understand that every category is more crowded than ever before. From CPG standpoint, retailers are bigger. Amazon has created this door that literally almost anybody can just throw something up there. So from, from a consumer standpoint, our options are infinite now. So it's super crowded. Then you take into consideration the advertising and media space that you were talking about.

Yeah.

Now you talk about how digital marketing has democratized advertising. And now you take a look at the direction that that meta has gone into. And now basically anybody can call themselves a media buyer because there is no media buying essentially anymore. Right. Essentially every has built such a powerful algorithm that now all you have to do, it all comes down to the creative. Now actually the skill of media buying is going away. So at this stage then if from an advertising standpoint, if so much of it is going to be lent on the creative, why? Because there are so many options that no one stands out anymore. And the media itself again is. There's no skill. And I don't want to begrudge anyone but the technology, it's taking away a lot of the skill because AI's advancements and all that stuff. Right. So, so the creative is, is critical for growth right now. And in, in the creative again is a communication mechanism. So if you break it down even further, then what you're trying to do as we talked about, is build a relationship. This is human connection. Okay. So this goes to the foundation that we always talk about before is like people stick around like people. I like to work with people that are like me. I like to do things that people are like me. Right. We're building relationships and that's when we talk about advocacy, it is about that value creation and it's building a relationship with like minded individuals. And now brands have to now take the stance as, okay, I have to see myself as a person having a personal interaction with another individual.

Yeah.

And in order to Ensure that I get the lasting relationship that I want where there's mutual value creation. Because that's the point. Right. That's what it came back to, is no one is going to pay more for something than they believe it's worth. And a business has to charge as much as they need to to stay open and make a profit. So it's finding that mutual space where there's mutual value creation between the two, which is a relationship, just like you talked about before with the concept of marriage. So if all you do is say, you know what, I'm just going to focus on my dating message and I'm just going to get a bunch of dates. So what you're doing now is you're building your business on trial and you're not getting any customer lifetime value. Therefore, from a business standpoint, essentially, your advertising costs are going to be through the roof. You're never going to have a profitable business because it's going to cost you too much to actually run your business. Because again, all you're doing is driving trial. Right. But if you shift your mindset to, okay, I'm here to try to create advocates, which means I need to attract those individuals that on a subconscious level, there's a relationship already that we. We have an ethos together, an unsaid ethos, A recognition, like most human interaction is. Right. When I walk into a room, my mind already finds things and subliminal things about people that I see. Okay, they're like me because of X, Y and Z. Does all that calc.

Yeah.

The same thing happens with customers when they're interacting with your brand. Whether it's a website, whether it's an ad, whether it's on the shelf, they're doing the same thing. There are subliminal signals they're picking up that will either attract or, you know, push them away from your brand, but you have to understand who you are and who they are in order to make sure that those signals are communicated properly.

Yeah.

Because you don't have the ability to look at every single individual and say, oh, I know I come off this way, but no, no, no, no. This is really what I'm about. I promise. Right.

So I'm smiling, I'm laughing, because that's a personal issue that I have as well. But, yeah, continue on.

But that's what. That's what I'm getting to. Right? Yeah, that's what I'm getting to is that if. If today, again, not. I'm not having a conversation about, can you get your business from zero to $1 million in revenue without this. You sure can. A lot of people do. Yeah. You can get it to 5 million, depending on the category. Right. You can, you can hit some of these milestones. Sure. But if you're looking to build something that scales, if you're looking to continue to expand and you're looking to make a large impact that's reaching multiple people, you need to have this work done to your point, so that creatively you're ensuring that, hey, every time my brand communicates with somebody different, they're getting the same brand. Yeah. No matter what the room is that they're in or the conversation that we're having.

Well, yeah, Justin, there's a. There's a lot there, too. You know, first of all, shout out to Daz and Gaston for writing the book on this.

There you go.

If you're listening, you guys know who you are. And anyone that's ever worked with me knows what I'm talking about. But, you know, they talk about this, the concept of story yelling, right? And you walk into a room and you start yelling something. And if you imagine that you're in a room full of other people yelling somethings, right. You need to be able to stand out. And if you're constantly yelling different things, people aren't going to pay attention to you. In fact, they're going to tune you out. And so if you're, if you're, like I said, if you're sort of telling the same story in different ways, attracting different people, then you're. Then, like you said, you're going to get these advocates that are going to say, you know what? I like how those guys think. I like that brand. I like those values. I like that thing. I'm not really sure why, because like you said, it speaks to them on a bit of an unconscious level. But this idea of advocacy, sort of doubling your business, Right. If I can create an advocate, if I can say, I've made a sale, you've decided to try my product, it's so good that you're going to buy it again the next time you do that and you come across a friend of yours who is probably going to share your same values, because again, like people, like people, you're going to say, hey, you should try this thing.

Right.

And so then it starts the cycle again of that person becoming aware, considering, evaluating, purchasing, repurchasing, and they become advocates. And it's all because you are adhering to an idea that is an extension of the values that you've both established for yourself and identified in the other people. And like I said, doing the work up front doesn't mean that we can't do the other stuff. Like you've said, it's just, it's a better long term way of getting a customer base that is then going to fight for, fight for your brand, right? When you ask anyone, you know, what brand of car do you drive or what brand of toothpaste you use, you know, generally they're gonna, I use this or I use this or I buy this and this is, I'm a loyalist to this. And it's because they share your values in some way, shape or form. I mean, how often have we talked about Justin, where a brand will step out onto a limb and they'll say something that is out of character and it will turn people off, right? I mean, we had a, you know, we had a blue beer brand do it recently, right. Like they, they said, you know, screw the organizing idea, we're going to do something different, right? And, and showed the people that thought that they shared their values that they don't, or at least it made it seem like they don't and it ruined their business for a long time. And when we're talking about this idea of giving the marketers or giving advertisers permission to be creative, it's about giving them permission to be creative within the confines of who the brand is and what they stand for. And the organizing idea sits on top of how you act. And instead of saying you've got a blue sky to paint in, it says you've got this corner of the sky to paint in. So now you know your boundaries and as long as you stay there, you can't fail. So, you know, when we're talking about building brands that last, it's just a super important part of it. And you know, it's overlooked because, you know, I've heard, I've heard clients say, well, I'm not big enough for that, or oh, I don't have the time for that, or oh, I don't have the money for that, or you know, any number of different. Or oh, I'm too big for that, right? It's like, how is anyone supposed to recognize and care about your brand if you don't put the time and effort into understanding and caring about your own brand and the people you're talking to? It's just a manifestation of doing that. That's all an organizing idea is.

And I think you bring up another good point here, which is I also want to make sure that Especially our entrepreneurs out there, that they understand, especially in today's marketplace, the value of the brand. For so long it was. Yeah, but my thing does it better than any other thing. So as soon as people use it, they're not going to use anything else. So I'm not really worried about the brand because it's better than anything else.

Yeah.

And you know what? In some instances in the past, that worked. It doesn't work anymore.

No, you know, the. That's tough because it's not like, let's see, how do I say this diplomatically? Sometimes you have to tell people, hey, I know that you believe this thing and it may be true, but it doesn't matter if I believe it and it doesn't matter if you believe it. The universal truth is that nobody cares about your brand. They're inherently selfish and they care about the way it makes them feel. And, you know, there's a difference between a fact and something that is true. And the human truth of the matter is you could have the best version of the thing that you've created. And it could, it could cure all of my illnesses or relationship problems or whatever it might be, but if I don't believe it, it doesn't matter what it does. And that's where the messaging and the strategically sound communication comes in. And again, I know I keep. I sound like a broken record, but if you don't know who you are and you don't know who you're talking to and why they should care, like, no amount of yelling at them saying, buy this, buy this, buy this is going to work. It just doesn't feel right.

And again, you brought up another point of that concept of trust. Right. Again, it gets back to, and this is a psychological fact, we as humans trust other humans that are like us. So again, the way you present your brand, the values that you present, you're creating, you're developing that rapport. If you've done the work, then you're. So you're already establishing rapport and trust that will transcend to any potential we'll call product benefit messaging that without it, exactly what you just said may happen. Sure. Yeah. I don't believe that. Right. You're getting rid of that objection already because you've established the trust.

Well, it is, you know.

I'm giving.

You my hard earned dollar. Right. And if you don't earn it. And again, like I said, it's very different today than it was years ago because there's so many different things and pieces of media and creators and you Know, independent types that are yelling at you going, hey, look at me, look at me, look at me. You know, I mean, our attention spans are zero at this point. And everything just looks like an ad, Right? You know, there's that old thing about, you know, I must be a hammer because I see the world as all nails, right. Everything just looks like an ad. Now, like, if you see messaging any. Look, I mean, you know, we're, we're in Detroit. They put, you know, the logo, the trash logo on the Red Wings and everyone was up in arms. Well, why were they up in arms? It's because these are the Red Wings. They're beloved in this town. We trusted that they weren't going to sell out. We trusted their values and all of the things that come along with, with this brand, right? Original Six, all the Stanley Cups, Stevie, Gordy, Hopp, you know, and then they put a logo on their, on their uniform and we all went, what are you doing?

Yeah.

The whole town, like, lost trust because of that decision that was counter to the values that we believe we shared with that brand. That, you know, the world in general is littered with that.

Yeah.

And, you know, so there's, so there's two sides to it. Number one is if you don't, if you don't have an organizing idea, right. If you haven't established that in a strategically smart way, then you're missing opportunities to both be efficient and to speak to the right people at the right time.

Right.

You're just, you just are. But if you, if you have one and you've established that trust and then you go against it, you're losing people because now they're going, you've just betrayed me. And so part of it is you want to attract those people that share your values, but then you have to pay them back by constantly earning, constantly letting them know that they're, that the trust that they're placing in you is not going to be taken lightly.

Yeah.

And it's, you know, like I said, I know we make it. I don't even say that we make it sound easy, but like, it's not an easy thing to come to, but it's a super important thing to come to. And I've always, you know, in, in most of my, the second half of my career, I've lived by this. It's, you know, and even when I have to drag people and brands kicking and screaming, you know, I always get hugs and handshakes at the end.

Right.

Because it, this concept of creating a centralized messaging system that's scalable that will help build a lasting brand. And a lasting messaging system is what everyone's looking for. And you know, there's no shortcuts. That's just the, that's just the, it's like working out.

Right.

There's no shortcuts to getting, to getting into shape.

Well, and it's kind of funny that you use that, that comparison because it's in my mind I was listening to and also I was thinking without doing this work, you may actually be betraying customers. You didn't even know you did it. Yeah, because you don't have an organized system to reference back to. See. Well, why are you so mad?

No, that's a really good point, Justin.

You could do it and you're just like, why are they so mad? I don't understand. No, you don't understand.

You know, that's a really good point because again, if you're guided, if you're guided by the wind.

Right.

Oh, I had this a great idea. Let's try that. Not only are you, you're absolutely correct. Not only are you spending money to test it and it's probably maybe, you know, you might get it right every once in a while.

Yeah.

But you're also potentially betraying other customers that have started to trust your brand if they now don't believe that you are following the same values. If you've done something counter. So that's a really good point. You may not even realize that you're doing it right. And you don't have, like you said, you don't have a, a system to, to sort of checks and balance, you know, whether or not you are actually betraying them. You know, it's, it's a good point. I guess I never even thought about that.

So, so that's. So again, getting around to it. When we start off the show we talked about this is about one of the major tools to help you build a brand that lasts. And, and the elements that we talked about going into it is about understanding who you are, understanding your customers values and why they exist in their purpose, what their needs and desires are. And obviously as a brand, what do you provide? What are the product benefits? What can you actually do for custom for your customers? You take all of that together to create that shared value experience where you're having that value exchange. Okay, now that we understand these things, now let's go and create this organizing idea, this communication tool that lets us communicate that, that North Star to now communicate that out to the world and without it, like you said it's kind of like if, if, if you listen, just listen to that process, if you miss one of those things, it's not going to work. And that's the point of this is if you don't know who you are, then you can't connect with your customer even if you do know what their purpose and why they exist, because you don't know why you exist. Right. You cannot create that, that ethos together immediately. Yeah. If you don't in their needs and desires, then you'll never be able to communicate them about what you do and why it matters to you.

Well, it's like you said, it's the same thing like we talked about earlier, right? You can't get married. How are you going to find someone that's right for you if you don't know who you are?

Exactly.

You can't, you can't do it. It's going to end terribly. It will end terribly, terribly.

The divorce rate in this country shows you that.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. And you know, and the divorce, and the divorce rate with products too, right? Like, you know, the, the, you know. Well, I'm sure they're low. I don't really have the, you know, the numbers in front of me. But just anecdotally, you know, I've noticed again, we're in Detroit. There's certain truths about the city.

Right.

Motor City, Right. We all buy American.

Right.

We all buy from the big three, because we all know people. Okay, that's changing, right? You see, you see foreign cars and driveways all the time. Like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, that wasn't the thing. I remember my dad would tell me all the time, he's like, you ever come home with a foreign car? You don't park it in my driveway.

Right?

That's just not the case anymore. I mean, loyalty is down from a brand perspective. And so, you know, we have to work even harder to earn the trust that leads to loyalty, that leads to advocacy than we used to. Because not only, not only are people looking for different things, but there's many, many, many, many, many more things to look for.

Oh, absolutely.

And I don't want this. We don't necessarily need to get into a big, you know, foo foo conversation about it. But part of the stuff that people look for now is this idea of corporate responsibility. Right. Like it, you know, again, what are your values and how are you going to be virtuous on my behalf? And, you know, there's, there's mental reports that, that back up the idea that, that these, that newer generations, they just expect that, that people will be virtuous on their behalf. Like, I'm giving you my money, and that is a contract between us that you are then going to take some of that and make the world a better place so that I can blast it out on, on social media and say, hey, I bought from this place. And they're gonna, you know, the person I am, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna give shoes to third world country, you know. You know, so we, we have to understand that when we're, if we know that that's our audience, then we have to know that that's part of our messaging.

Right.

So again, it goes back to knowing your audience, knowing who you are, and knowing what kind of message they need to hear at what time in their journey. And again, that's all an organizing idea does, is it just brings those things together and gives the guideposts so that you can build a brand that lasts.

Yep. So again, everyone, this is, this is a system that we are implementing for all of our clients here at the agency so that we can. Again, so that we can scale, as Paul said, this has. This does not take away the concept of we need to run some campaigns right now to get some wins on the board. Nope. But this makes sure that as you're doing that work, as you're building the future, once you've reached this point, not only do you have now a new mirror to look back at what you've done in the past, to now get a better understanding of what may have worked and not worked and possibly why it worked or didn't work, that you can make adjustments faster, you can be smarter in what you're doing, but as you scale forward, you've got that North Star, so everything is going to get better. And again, this can, this can even get back to helping you with some of your business decisions. Right. Because again, this is your communications tool. So if you're going to be developing new products, get back to your organizing idea. Does this product ladder back up to that? Because customers will experience this where they buy it or not. And if now all of a sudden this new product doesn't really connect with that organizing idea that we've been leveraging in communication about our brand and who we are, then all of a sudden you're going to create mistrust. Mistrust and potentially the new customers and go, wait, hold on, this doesn't make sense. Sense. And they may not even say it they're going to feel it, and, and it could disrupt your current customer. So that could also act as a guidepost for larger decisions. Any outward experience of your brand, this is what's going to help guide it, and it's going to make everything easier for you moving forward because now you know what you're doing, why you're doing it. If it doesn't, it's. It's your, it's your test. Right. It doesn't fit this.

Right.

Well, then we don't do it. You just don't do it. Okay, well, that was.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a good point. You know, I think there's a, there's an element of understanding. Like I said, you know, if you, if you know why you exist, then you know whether or not something is in alignment with, with your brand. And so, you know, it's, it's true. Customers are not going to buy things from companies that they don't trust, and they're not going to trust companies that don't know who they are and why they exist.

Well, and I get back to. And I get. I don't know the organizing idea, but just as an example, I look at brands like hims, right? They first came to the market and what were the. It was, it was all about hair loss, right? Oh, him. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, I thought you said hint. I was like, yeah, that's a drink company.

That's a drink Hims, right? Yeah, it was all about the hair loss. Yeah. And now they've expanded into ed. They've expanded into anxiety. So. But everything that they're doing comes back to this concept of a, don't worry, we're going to deliver it to you. We're going to make this easy for you to go to the doctor. You don't have this very uncomfortable conversation. We'll take care of all of it. Right. For you, it's very personal. And every one of their products are all about giving men in some area confidence and performance. It's all about helping feed, you know, that. That for lack of ego. Right. But doesn't matter. They all make sense. I look at it and I don't buy any of their products, but I can look at that. Everything that they're selling, and I say they all fit together.

Yeah.

There's a connection between every single one of them, but all of them are serving different markets. Right.

But Justin, see, and you know, that is a. That is a. You might have by accident actually brought up one of the most recent cases of not really. Either not knowing who you are as a brand or not adhering to who you are as a brand. Because the statement that the owner made maybe about a month ago about the current conflict really, really went counter to his, you know, to, to everything you just described. And up until that, that point, you know, they were a darling of the dtc, you know, personal, personal grooming products or personal care products. And they really took a hit because like I said, they, they either didn't, they didn't know who they were, which I don't buy that.

No.

Or they didn't adhere to it stringently enough to say to themselves, you know what, probably not the best look to say something this controversial, whether you agree with it or not. And it cost them. I mean, I'm pretty sure their stock plummeted pretty heavily, you know. Post comment and, you know, I'm trying to be very diplomatic about that situation and talk a little bit more about what happened from a factual standpoint. And, you know, that is yet another example of communicating a brand message on a whim because you thought it was a good idea and it didn't pay off. In fact, it had a detrimental effect. And, you know, it goes back to everything we've been talking about. If you know who you are, if you know who you're talking to and you know why they should care, that North Star is going to guide you and it's not going to fail you as long as you adhere to it. And it's simply, it's just, it's just, it's just good practice to do, you know.

Absolutely. So this has been a phenomenal conversation. And so as you've mentioned a few times, is that this process, a process to get here, this is, there is nothing simple about it. And so not today. But what I would love, Paul, is to have you back.

Yeah.

And we can spend some more time talking about the process of getting to this organizing idea, really what goes into it. And for any of our listeners who are interested in doing this, give them a sneak peek of what does it take to get here. What is the experience like? So I would love to have you back to have that discussion.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously, you know where I sit.

Nice.

So, so we're, you know, I'm happy to do it. You know, it's, it's, this has been a real pleasure and I'm, I'm happy to, you know, come and add to the, the stellar reputation that, that Jekyll and Hyde, you know, has within the CPG market and, you know, I think, you know, between, between the superpowers that that sort of existed before I got here and, you know, a bit of my own ego and I'll say, dare I say skills. You know, it's really, it's really been a fun ride thus far. So I'm happy to come back and chat about whatever.

Amazing. Well, that's it for our episode today of CBG Insiders. Again, I want to thank thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to listen and hear what we have to say. I hope that we created tremendous value for you in this time. If you like the episode, please go to wherever you listen to your podcast and leave us a review. And if you want to, if there's anything you want us to talk about in the show, please go to our website, cpg insiders.com send us a message. Also, again, if you want to have a discussion with myself or Mark or Paul, if what you've heard today has got you really interested in and you want to have an organizing it developed or even get an idea of what it could be, email us. We we never charge for a conversation. We're always here to help entrepreneurs and brands grow and get to and realize their vision. So reach out to us. You can reach out to us on the cbg insiders.com website or you can go to jnh labs.com and send us a message. We again, we would love to help, but again, thank you so much for your time today and we'll see you in the next episode.

If you're looking to greatly increase sales on your CPG product, don't hesitate to contact us at Jekyll and Hyde Advertising and Marketing. By the way, the only advertising agency with a guaranteed result, just go to jekyllheidagency.com or feel free to give us a call at 800-542 10.