Utilizing Social Influencers - Episode 30

Welcome everybody, to this edition of CPG Insiders. I'm your host, Markia with my co host, Justin Gerard.

Gosh, that's a few weeks in a row you got my name right.

I am nailing your name. Gosh, that's good. That's great, Jeff.

That's good.

So anyway, no, his name is Justin, Is it Jeff?

Oh, gosh. Five years, Mark. Five years.

I'm Justin. All right, so we're trying to get back to normal life right now. So first thing I want to say in this, shall I call it a post Covid world yet? No, it's not post Covid yet.

No, no, not yet.

However, the majority of all of our clients are seeing great sales result. Yeah, we're having a great time.

Yes.

People still, guess what? People still need to go to Walmart and drugstore and they still need an aspirin and they still need to deal with the toenail fungus and itchy ears and they still want dinner sides and all those things are still happening.

It's mind blowing. People still need stuff.

Yes, it is still going on. So today we're going to talk to Cody. Is it pronounced Whitake?

Yeah. Right.

Cody Whittek.

Yes.

And we're going to talk about social influencers.

Yes, yes, yes.

Cody, tell us a little bit about from where you're at. Let everybody know where you're from.

Yeah, I'm from Orange County, California, born and raised. So we have dry sand over here, Mark, but yeah, born and raised over here and where everybody wants to move. And we're so expensive.

That is not a Dodgers hat or a Lakers hat you're wearing.

No, no, no. I just like the color, but I'll just pretend it's an LA signature.

So tell us a little bit about your company.

Yeah, so kinship, me and my partner started about a year and a half ago. We are an influencer marketing agency. But I would even more steer it towards influencer content agency. And we'll get into that a little bit later. That's really our focus. And we focus on basically getting the best content from influencers to deliver back to brands, which is our clients, and hopefully create kinship between the influencers and brands themselves.

So we say influencers. So people think influencers and they immediately think of, oh, so I'm going to get the Kardashians to, right, go do something on Instagram about my product or something. But that's, that's not really your approach here, is it?

No, no, no. Yeah, I mean certainly that's. I think that's how the influencer marketing game grew and got started, which was the Kardashian family. That's kind of always the prime example that everybody goes to. Right back in 2013, 2014, really, when Instagram started becoming attributed to dollars and selling product. But yeah, what you're saying, Mark, is what where we try to go towards is more of the 10 to 100k follower count type of influencers, the more relatable. And I think that's where people are starting to trend towards, which is they want to get. They want to. There's a reason the vloggers, the YouTubers, families that basically post their normal every day they lives. I have no idea why they have followers, but they just post content of them just walking around doing normal life. And people eat it up because it's relatable. It's something that they're wanting to do. Now, don't get me wrong, there are talented and I think these followers build a following based off the content that they create because they're really good at it.

So I have over 100,000 followers on Twitter. Are you telling me that Justin needs to start following me around with an iPhone and just videoing me having lunch and please, doing phone calls?

Please, Cody, please don't do this to me. Don't stop.

I already have a hard enough time getting a hold of Justin, so I don't want to do that because I.

Find absolutely zero interest in why anyone would be interested in seeing what I do all day.

I don't.

I have no idea.

But I have the following.

No, I can second that. I have no interest in what you do.

I have little interest in what I do.

Fair enough. Well, and so that's what's been always interesting. So when we talk about the concept of social media influencers and how it has grown, but we deal with clients all the time and we feel like they have this, I don't want to say myth about what social media influencers can do, but I do. I feel like they are confused on how they should leverage them, what they can actually do for their brand.

Well, I think everybody thinks it needs to be somebody really famous every single time.

Every single time.

Not somebody with 10,000 followers or 100,000 followers. You know, I need to get a, you know, Paris Hilton, Kardashian, you know, fill in the blank. Somebody, you know, Kylie Jenner that's gonna go up and talk about it. But the reality is, and this is where I will be serious. So I do have over 100,000 followers, and I can say that those followers are highly engaged with anything I say. So constant retweets and likes. And I get lots of DMs, and I'm sometimes surprised how much these people. Hang on what I say. It is surprising to me that, you know, I'll get these DMs. Well, what do you think of this? You know, I don't know who else to ask, so I want to ask you, what do you think of this? So. So you do have these little microcosms or these little universes of influence. Is that really what you're tapping into in all these little universes?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the case for micro influencers is that you have one to two reasons that people are following you, Mark. Whereas a Kardashian, you might have eight. It could be her beauty, it could be her last name, it could be the brand.

Yeah.

Is that what happened? Yeah, yeah.

No, I was saying I have a face. I have a face.

So anyways, go ahead.

Yeah. No, and I comparison to, like, the eight to 10 reasons that people are following. Like a macro or celebrity influencer. It's just a audience that is really widespread, so you don't know exactly what you're getting.

Mm.

So these micro influencers, then, if you can match up the reason they have followers with the product or the brand that you're marketing, that could even be a better matchup. That could even be more influential. Because let's say I.

Not.

I'm not.

But let's say I'm an expert in exercise and I want to talk about a vitamin or I want to talk about something for exercise. I could see that being very poignant.

Mm.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think if you have a product, a hero product, picking an audience that's already buying, you know, an influencer that would represent your customer base is a good way to go. I think what, Justin, what you're kind of hinting at a little bit earlier, kind of go back to what people tend to think of influencer marketing. That's a lot of our job, honestly, half the time is educating people on the right way to think of the term influencer marketing. Yes. We can go with a different term. We can abandon the term altogether just to try to be. Ooh, different. But I think it's one of the things that we're trying to do is just change the way people think about influencer marketing. That's why we still hold to an influencer marketing agency, even though a lot of the time we are correcting the way people think about it, just to Provide that education and philosophy about it.

Yeah. Because a lot of the times, you know, here, what we've experienced and you know, Cody, I remember our first conversation. Um, you know, I. Yeah, I may or may not have been slightly blunt. I maybe. I don't know.

That's the way I work too.

But we did.

I was slightly blunt back to you.

Absolutely. And it was a match made in heaven. And that's why we're still talking today. But it was because all the time, every time we talk to clients and they've come to us and said, hey, we need to use influencers. We need to be on social media influencers. Our comment back to them always, always was, but where's the value in that? Where is the return? You. You might. What are you expecting get out of this? Are you expecting them to help boost up your social media? Are you expecting these influencers to be seen as master of your brand? Are you expecting them to sell stuff like, what are you actually trying to get out of them? And 90% of the time, they didn't know how to answer that question. And so we kept telling them, you can't build value for this tactic you're about to go spend money on if you don't know what you want to get out of it. And for us and our clients, and this is what we preach to all the time right now, our clients, if they put a dollar out there, they need to get a dollar back, plus some at minimum.

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

Are you familiar with Kevin Kelly?

I'm not.

Kevin Kelly is a. Is a guy who created Wired magazine.

Okay.

And he's. He has something Kevin developed, which I thought was very interesting, and he refers it as. As his rule of 1000. And his big thing in social media or in podcasting is not to focus on having millions of subscribers, millions of listeners, but he calls it the rule of a thousand, where you have a thousand dedicated people that will do whatever you want. And that's where he focuses. Do you have a thousand people that will go spend $100 if you suggest it?

Right.

Is that where you're putting more of the focus on, is finding these people who have this small but dedicated group of people who take it seriously with.

The person saying, yeah, in a more. In a very dedicated way. I mean, I think what you're hinting at, certainly people talk about these vanity metrics of all these followers. We just use that as a term of identification to identify people. That's really it. We don't put a lot of stock in follower count. If it went away tomorrow, we would still value the same things. A lot of people would not because they would be going to profiles and be like, wait, I have no idea if this person's an influencer or not. We would say we can tell based off the content and we would value that based off the content that they're creating. And I think if Instagram or these, you know, these platforms were to get rid of influencer count, it would do it a lot of good because it'd be putting the focus back on where it should be, which is the content creation of it all. Because I think what Justin, you were hinting at earlier, and even Mark, what you're talking about is like the true measure of influence, what he called the rule of 1000. We want to be able to deliver that control and power back to the brands and your clients. And so it's really comes down to a delineation between like owning versus renting. And that's what I think what we first talked about, Justin, at the beginning is, is when you, you know, harped on influence marketing, said it didn't work, where's the roi? Like, I don't like it. And I, my first words were, I don't know if you remember this, but I said, yeah, I agree with you. Yes, yes, because, and, and you're probably taken back by that because I truly, the way that you were talking about influencer marketing as it was, I would say a hundred percent, it doesn't work if you' pay for posts. If you're going to pay for a big time celebrity and post and expect all these sales to come in, it is completely off compared to the way that we think. And so the delineation that we always come back to is just owning versus renting the content. And so with something like the stock market, would you rather put all your money in one stock or have a diversified portfolio? What's the smarter approach? Most of the time, most of the time that you talk to people, it's that diversified portfolio. And that's the way we think about it. And in comparison, that one stock is that one influencer, that big influencer. It's the sexy pick. Okay, I'm gonna put all my money in this. But then it's really, really a wide spectrum of if it's gonna work or not compared to a diversified portfolio is you, the brand and your clients have all these revenue generating sales channels such as email, a PDP page. Specifically the way that we type to think and really where we push this content a lot is Facebook And Instagram ads, those three specifically, and there's many more, are sales generating avenues. And so if you can own the content and then trust that your team and your client's team can repurpose that, or you guys or us as an agency can repurpose that content into all these different avenues, then you're set up for much more success than that one stock.

Now, I was gonna go back to your comment about followers. I've noticed myself that follower count doesn't. Your number of followers has nothing to do with your engagement level. So I'll give you an example. I might comment on a story that somebody with 3 million followers has and they had 55 likes on it. I comment on it and I get 8,000 likes on it, even though I have a lot fewer followers.

Right.

So just having a lot of followers doesn't mean they're engaged, Right.

Doesn't mean you can activate them, right? Absolutely. And you know the big thing we talked about, Cody, and if you remember from our first conversation, what got everything hooked us, what you were just preaching to was the concept of reach. It's that concept that even a really good, let's say, really strong social media influencer, if they put out an organic post, it's only hitting about 6% of their audience. So you might see that massive number, but what the brand quote, unquote, how many people they're actually going to reach, it's so much smaller than that. So it's really.

Yeah. And then when you actually break that down into this is the amount of people that engage with the product, and then you break it down into this is the amount of people that converted on the product and you're breaking down a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. And it's all organic focus. And that's why we try to steal our clients and any clients that we would work together with, you guys, is we're trying to steal them away from the organic focus. I mean, we've had clients that come back to us at the end of a campaign and this is just being fully transparent. And they're just like, you know, we didn't see the results on the organic story. Swipe up, result. And we just put our heads down because like that is a huge fail as an agency for us to communicate if your expectations but you're gonna get your return on your dollar on an organic story swipe up. We failed you in communicating. We fail big time. Because that is not the focus. That is the bonus of it all. Okay, Maybe you get some followers out of this maybe, you know, you get one to two purchases on the story post, but we really try to focus on getting that communication to be clear that the focus is on you guys repurposing this content across your sales generating channel. How did the content perform in a Facebook ad? How did it perform on email, those sorts of things?

Yeah, absolutely.

So this is really about getting these social influencers to, let's say, create videos, demonstrate the product, talk about the product, and then for us to take that information and almost think of it as a commercial and go out and start leveraging that with paid meeting.

Absolutely. And you know, and there's the other aspect and you know, when we talk through with Cody is because we are, we are huge advocates of content here. Your ability not only once we are able to get this great asset from an influencer and serve it as an ad from the brand, but the page access, that was another thing that really, really gripped me about what you guys can do is your page access. Can you jump into that a little bit for the audience?

Yeah, yeah. So page access, all that really means. And sometimes it's called whitelisting, but the way that we would distinguish it is the ability to run ads through that influencer's handle. So I'm sure you guys have seen this. You know, scrolling through Instagram, you'll see, you know, Jessica alba sponsored by HelloFresh. But it's just, it's the ad is coming through Jessica Alba and then says sponsored by HelloFresh just underneath. That's what's called page access. The difference between page access and simply like boosting content is the audience control. At that point you're able to just like in the ad account, just like an ad set, you're able to build out audiences. You could serve ads from the brand's page into the influencer's audience and vice versa, from the influencers page into the brand's audience. There's a lot of different variables with that. So it gives just, it gives the brand and paid media agency a lot of flexibility. Just additional audiences to be able to distribute that content.

Yeah, plus the ads coming from the influencer.

Right, right.

From that person.

Yeah. And I didn't even touch on that. That's like the more organic play. Sometimes it really can be a unique play because sometimes it just comes off as less invasive. You know, you're not getting hit up by this brand. Once again, even though it's the same product, it just comes a little bit more personal. I mean, that's the whole point of, you know, these Influencer campaigns to begin with is you're just seeing this person that you follow. You look up to now you're getting served from them as opposed to the brand. So it's a little bit different of a play.

Oh, it's a huge difference we talk about, especially in the social media space, in the Internet in general, but especially in social, because consumers, users are there to engage in content, they're not there to engage in brands. So now you've given the ability for a brand to serve up a piece of content that seems organic to the user and it's, it's able to essentially sell your product without any consumer feel like, quote, unquote, they're being sold or looking at an ad. It's such a powerful, powerful tool to be able to use.

Is for the past several years and it's kind of died down the past year or so. But we would get clients who would. Every, every client would just say, why don't we, why don't we make a viral video? And I would, you know, and I'm like, oh, that's a great idea. Do you know why a video goes viral? Because I don't. If you could figure out a formula for a viral video. And so as an example, I'm going to go back to my Twitter once in a while. I'll tweet something that will just go nuts and it'll get a million views. I have no idea why that comment I made got a million views. And another comment I made that I thought was probably a much Smarter comment got 40,000 views.

Right?

Yeah.

There's no way of knowing now with what you're doing, instead of putting all your money on Kylie Jenner and hoping she hits it out of the park. What I like is Now I have 10, 20, 30 influencers. I now have this massive ABC test that I can run, whereas I go to my paid media and now I've got a 30x chance of somebody hit that. That right button.

Yep.

That made people pay attention to the content versus I have one shot on somebody's going to hit that right button.

Absolutely.

And of course, since it's controlled in paid media, we can keep testing all these things. Right. We can just test this, test person A to person B to person C. All of a sudden person C is the one that's connecting. We can funnel more of the weight toward that person and put more of the paid media behind that one. That's working. There's another thing I think that I like on this too, and that is a good social Influencer is going to talk about a review of product in their own words if they know what they're doing. And a lot of time they may fall on language that resonates with the audience that I didn't think of.

Right.

So all of a sudden it's like, oh my goodness, I had no idea that was going to connect with people, but look how it's connecting. So I think this is also a learning process of being able to test 20, 30, 40 messages and different ways of delivering the message and different cadences and different styles and being able to learn more about your customer base.

Absolutely, absolutely. And then you also, what's, what's also great is now you've got all of these different influencers, but with again kind of circling back around. If you can tell by now that I like this aspect with the page access that you have actually had access to that influencer's audience. So if you find a couple influencers that are really doing well now, you can take that audience and say, I need to target more people that look like this. Now I have the data to be able to do that.

Look alikes off of it.

Yeah, it's amazing. So Cody, for our audience, because I said we've been really trying to really pushing you guys for what you're doing. If you can't tell, we love what you guys are doing. So could you just briefly walk through our clients what the experience would be like, what happens to be able to get from the point of great, you want to do this to great, now you've got your content and you're off and running.

Yeah, yeah. So I think that's a great question. Basically our process is very simple. We take a deep dive into your ad account, into your influencer history, and then we come to the table with you and build a strategy and present it to you based off what's going to win ultimately in the ad account. And we pride ourselves on just identifying the best content creators that are going to be able to create content for you guys to be able to repurpose not only in that account, but just obviously in the other channels that I've said before. And then we go find those people. We have a very white glove approach. We have a software that's able to identify 4 million plus profiles. We put in all the hard data, what audience match and age and demo and affinity and all these things. That narrows it down. And then we have more of a white glove approach in terms of identifying these creators based on their content creation ability. Can they speak? Are they Comfortable on camera. Do they have maybe a YouTube? Because the thing is with the content creation is like, you know, Mark could write beautiful copy on his Twitter, he could take an awesome photo, but he can't fake. If some brand wanted to come work with you, Mark, you can't fake on video, whether you really believe in the content or not, or, I'm sorry, the product or not. So that's the thing with video is it just eliminates all inauthenticity with the product because you're able to say, you know, I need to see you on camera, be excited about the product and it's going to come off if you're faking or not. And so that's why we focus on video content much more than imagery, although we definitely can get imagery from influencers. Yeah. And then that process is around three to four weeks. And then basically we're delivering the content to you, the brand, and ultimately to the ad agency or, you know, about 50% of the time we're running the paid media as well behind it. And then the process just starts all over.

Now, does any of this stuff help a client out with organic search? So as example, I've got 30 people out there who did a video review on my product and now I've got a random customer who goes out and types my product into Google. Are some of these videos going to pop up? Because that would be huge value.

Yeah, we've seen a lot of success with brands posting these videos on YouTube and putting them on maybe a blog post. These are the three influencers talking about our brand right now. And then that ties into SEO in a big way. So that certainly is a viable channel.

Yeah. And the other thing, see, here's one of the things that we noticed. We noticed that today consumers will see a TV commercial, banner, ad, video, whatever the case is, and then they go out and they go to Amazon or they go to Google and they type the product in and they're looking to see who's talking about. So does it have bad reviews? Does it have a five star review? One star review? And they're going to Google and they're seeing who else is talking about it. So if you have a small brand, a younger brand, and somebody types your brand name in, well, they might find your website, they might find Walgreens, Walmart, cvs, you know, if the stores carry it. But are they finding other excited people about the product? And this is a chance, I think, to create some of those excited people. Whereas I'm going to, oh, here's somebody on YouTube that is reviewing the product. Or here's five people on YouTube reviewing the product, right?

Yeah. And what you're really talking about is user generated content. I mean, the reviews are so powerful, but if each review had a video testimonial, that would make it even better. And that's what we're really basically saying is like these influencers are used to doing this. They're professionals that are creating the content and so they should be end users of your products. If they aren't, then why are you getting them the product? Why are you working with them in reality? But yeah, that's what makes those product reviews even more powerful is when you have actually someone who creates selling content all the time to be able to talk about your product in that way.

It's incredible. And we haven't even gotten to the best part about this yet. In my opinion is the, the work that you guys do in the package you guys put this to do. Because this, I'm sure there's many of our listeners going, this sounds really great, this sounds really good. But hold on, what's this gonna cost me? That's really.

Isn't that expensive?

That's the best part. You could not get more, you could not get a larger value for your content than doing it this way, period. I'm telling you right now, getting video content at this value, it is impossible.

When we're hiring these influencers that have 10 to 100,000 followers, not counting all the other ancillary costs or the cost to promote it, what roughly, or just in a rough area, what are we paying for an influencer?

So on average, when we were talking Cody, when we look at it, because what Cody has done with a lot of the different proposals we put together for other people is we really approach it from what are the goals of the client? And then also we approach it from how many pieces of content, how many influencers do we want? And that's really what's going to come down to the price. For example, getting the page access, if you want, that's going to be a little bit more expensive than if I just wanted to get a video, period. And I didn't want to have access to that content, things like that. So really we look at it at a per asset kind of cost. When you break it down, and when you break it down that way, we're talking about video, we're talking about display, even some great creative edits that Cody get into here in a second, we're talking a few hundred dollars in asset. I mean, we're talking like 5, 6, $700 in assets.

Nothing.

No, no, we couldn't, we couldn't. That's what I'm saying. It's a.

Have you followed me around?

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah. No. And I appreciate you guys. It is hyping it up but it's really no hype. It's the truest form. I came from the brand side. We would spend thousands and thousands of dollars on professional video shoots. Photo shoots, sure. Something that you guys offer. Possibly, I don't know.

But for some brands that shoot pretty nice videos.

Yeah, yeah, no. And there can be value to it, don't get me wrong. But I just think for the cost effective approach from high quality influencers, creators that producing and especially with today's world, these iPhones are unbelievable and their content creation, you're getting really cheap assets for a cost effective rate that you just can't compete with.

No. And it is the perfect complement. It's a great tactic. We've talked about this. It fits into a strategy. There are, they're absolutely a place in an advertising strategy. Even just speaking in the digital space for a more, for lack of a better term, professionally produced spot that is going to serve a purpose. It will, but so does this. This does something different for your brand. This gives it a different engagement with the brand. This is going to be something that again you can use this to get really cost effective strong content that can service you as an ad, it can service you. And from the social proof standpoint, sel standpoint, it delivers all these aspects but then you also to want to have some more highly professional that just go straight to your product message because that's going to do something else that's going to engage and drive a different type of sale if you will. It all comes together.

So now I'm thinking what if we, if we use content creators, had them actually go in and review the client's other content.

Oh my goodness, that'd be even better. I think that's part of, that's part of our service too.

Let's say that we had a client who had a very robust informational website. Let's say it was about a disease state or something. Could you have influencers go in and comment about the web experience of learning about the company?

Yeah, I mean why couldn't you?

I think you've seen that with some of these influencer backed companies that have started brands, startups that have launched with influencers as part owners of the company. There's a lot of unique advantages with that. But I think that's part of it, too, is that, yes, they're using their influence, they're using their stock. They're using their kind of, you know, power over that community ultimately. But also, it's just a, you know, a deep dive and analysis of this is what's going to work, because this is what I do, and I know the people on my. I know my audience, and if you want an audience like mine, then you're going to listen to me. But they also have to believe in the product, too. But it is an interesting, interesting approach. On the other hand, I feel like a lot of the times the influencers don't even. They won't even know necessarily. They just produce really good content. They don't even know it just because they're, you know, they've never worked with a brand before or anything like that.

I agree with you. Sometimes they're producing content that's worth a lot more than what we're paying.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And they don't know. They're naive.

I think back to Cody's idea of, you know, put all your money in Tesla stock or spread it around. You kind of get that same advantage of, I'm gonna have 10 or 20 influencers, and the chances are you're probably gonna have a couple of pieces of gold come out of there.

Absolutely.

And then some decent stuff and probably have a couple that you're not crazy about.

Sure. But it's still content that you own, that you can go back to, that you can leverage. You can cut it, delete it, whatever you want, it's yours. You own it.

And Mark. And Mark, what you're hinting at, too, is, you know, there's a couple that you don't necessarily like. That's three or $400 versus a $20,000 photo shoot. And you're just like, what the heck did I just get? Or, you know, paying the big influencer 50k and what the heck did I just get? You just do not want to be in that boat. I personally have been in that boat before, and those. You know, some of these strategies that we use today are based off learnings that I did in the past that, you know, bit me in the butt.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. You know, so I paid somebody 400 bucks, and I don't like the review or don't like the.

Right.

The video. They did not the end of the world. I spent five grand. I've got ten people. Okay. So I'm not crazy about one.

Right. And you know what? We've been pushing to a lot of our clients right now to bring it back around to the current climate is what we've talked about. With a lot of the states and restrictions, we're not able to do a lot of shooting right now. We're not able to do a lot of the commercials. I mean, we know at our agency we had a few commercials lined up we wanted to shoot, and we can't. We literally can't.

Right.

This is a great way that you can get some content and still drive your business right now. So it's a great pivot during this time.

I want to get somebody in LA running on the wet sand.

I'm gonna pay somebody to go do.

That video just so I can email it to Gavin Newsom. Ah, look what I got here. See, I got a guy on the wet sand. I guess Garcetti's the one that said you can't run on the wet seat.

Oh, Lord.

But yeah, I think this makes sense. I have one last question. If I get somebody, so let's say somebody does a video and this guy's great. Can I go back and get more, do more work with that person?

Absolutely. I think that's a lot of our model, too, is maybe spread the net a little bit wider, working with a vast number of different influencers. But then you find out, okay, these six worked. These four didn't work with these six, you know, let's get more content from these six. It's the whole Facebook model. Right? Is that Facebook's a machine learning system. They're a lot smarter than all three of us. They put money behind the best performing ad, copy, ad and ultimately creative. And so when you see that numbers come in, that's really hard to tell from our organic side of things. But from a Facebook side of things, you can see all the data that you want. And so when you see the data come in and says, okay, these three influencers really crush it. And creative, let's get more. Because creative has a life cycle.

What platforms does this work best on? Is it best in Instagram or Facebook? Where do you see the most success for brands?

Yeah, Facebook and Instagram still is just the market dominator right now. I think TikTok is making a lot of headway, but it has such a unique thing. I saw that today. It was like the second most downloaded app in the month of April behind Zoom.

So.

But I think it's making a lot of headway. But I would say, yeah, Facebook and Instagram is still, you know, 70, 80% of where you want to see influencer content.

I mean, is TikTok. Is TikTok even a thing commercially wise? Business wise?

Yeah, no, for sure. I would say it's a strong play just because again, it's going back to the creative, it's going back to the virality videos challenges. It has a very specific niche. It's definitely a Gen Z audience, but it's definitely a strong platform.

What about Twitter for brands? I noticed you didn't say that. Is Twitter not a big driver for brands?

Yeah. So you're not the best influencer to use. Yeah, There you go.

Yeah, my sanity.

Twitter just so quick. It's just, it comes and goes and that's the thing. And it's more about words than content. But although you're starting to see, you know, threads and them trying to compete in that way, we just haven't seen a ton of success with Twitter.

Well, folks, if this is something you want to learn more about, you can certainly reach out to us. You can contact Justin or you can contact Jeff. If you want to call Justin Jeff, you can call him. Either name doesn't matter. We can take a look at what you have. If you're an existing client or if you're someone who just wants to look at doing this, we'll be happy to help you. And if it's something we can't help with, we can refer him straight to Cody and Cody can work with him directly.

Absolutely, yes.

And this is a great platform. So, Cody, we appreciate you being with us here today and appreciate the time and that's kind of it for CPG Insiders. If you like the show, make sure to go leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcast and send links to your fellow entrepreneurs and CPG people. And again, I want to, I just want to tell people we are, we are both. Justin and I, both, all kidding aside, are humbled by the number of people that listen to this program. And we're so happy that we're able to bring things to people that seems to be helping with their business. That's it for today and we'll see you on the next episode of CPG Insiders. If you're looking to greatly increase sales on your CPG product, don't hesitate to contact us at Jekyll and Hyde Advertising and Marketing. By the way, the only advertising agency with a guaranteed result, just go to jekyllheidagency.com or feel free to give us a call at 800-500-4250.