$100K to $1.8M in 10 Months: AI vs. Your Caveman Brain

Welcome back to another AI for Sales podcast. I am Chad Burmeister, your host, and today I have an amazing guest with me. We are going to talk about augmented intelligence, and I use that word because a lot of us think of artificial intelligence, and really where I believe the industry is headed is this augmented intelligence. And we have Dr. Noah St. John. He's a known— he's known worldwide as the neuro Uh, sorry, the Neural Performance Architect. I love that. Uh, to the world's most successful families, billionaire CEOs, celebrities, and professional athletes. He's famous for helping his clients tame the caveman, removing the subconscious barriers that block success. Since 1997, he's added more than $3 billion in sales for his clients. Dr. Noah is also a TEDx speaker and number one bestselling author Author of 27 books published in 18 languages, and you can visit him on the website at noahstjohn.com. Noah, thanks so much for being here today. Welcome to the show.

Thanks, Chad. Great to be here with you.

Oh man, I'm so excited because this conversation can go in so many directions. We all— everybody's talking about AI and agents and how do we outsource all these human interactions, and yet I think the pendulum's moving back to center that says, wait a minute, there's still human in the loop and human conversations. Talk to me, you know, first your perspective in an AI world. How's the customer experience changing with AI? And then we're going to get into all the caveman talk.

Absolutely. And I will be speaking English. I won't just be grunting here, just so everybody's aware.

All right.

So I do use English. But anyway, wow. I mean, it's a huge, huge topic. As you said, everybody's talking about it. Every 5 seconds, there's a new AI. And it's frankly overwhelming for most people. And so, what I like to do for my clients is, number one, cut out the noise. Number two, simplify. And number three, focus. Really, that's the biggest problem that I see for most people today is just because of all the overwhelm, they're having an enormous problem focusing. Just, okay, let's get something done today. Let's ship something. Let's get it out the door instead of this constant just back and forth. So, in terms of AI, how we use it today for my example. So, you know, you mentioned my website, noahstjohn.com. So, for everybody who's been on the internet for any amount of time, you know that prior to just a few years ago, I mean, very recently, you would give something as a lead magnet to give something of value so that you could build your email list, right? So, that's been around for about 25 years now. And so, people would give something like PDFs or reports or white papers or things like that. Well, with AI, and this is just one example, it's obvious that nobody's reading PDFs anymore. I mean, let's face it, nobody's really reading books anymore, you know, because all you have to do is go into ChatGPT and say, hey, how do I do this? And there you go. You're like, why do I need a book? And so, you know, the expert industry is tanking and all of this stuff is freaking out a lot of people. So, what we did at NoahStJohn.com, what I did is looking at the industry, I said, all right, what we need is a tool. We need a diagnostic tool that anyone can self-select and determine through AI and just through using some numbers, some literally some sliders on there, like what is the cost that they're losing right now to what we call the caveman in the brain. And I know we're going to be talking about that. But so, we created something called the Caveman Calculator. It's right there on the homepage. And so, you just take the sliders. And you use 3 different numbers and it shows you how much the, as I call it, the caveman brain is costing you right now. Now, this could be in your business. It could be in your career. It could even be in your relationships. But it's really costing you right now. So, the point about that is we built that with AI and it is AI itself. But it's a free diagnostic tool that anyone can use. And so, that is a great example of how AI has shifted the customer journey Right from the very beginning.

Love it. Yep. So, talk to me about the caveman brain because you've worked with athletes, billionaires, CEOs, you know, the who's who in the zoo kind of folks. When you engage with them, you know, talk me through a 60-minute conversation. What happens from the time you start the conversation to the time they're crying and bawling at the end?

Yes, we get that a lot. Okay, so let me back up a little bit and give you some context, all right? Because what do I mean by caveman in the brain? All right, so that's the big point here. Okay, so if you think about us, the human being, we— the human brain has been around for about 200,000 years. About 200,000. That's the number that most people agree on. So, it's an ancient brain, about 10,000 generations we humans have been around. Now, in that time, the brain itself hasn't changed very much, all right? It's about the same as it was back in the day. And so, that is what you have on the one hand. Now, on the other hand, you have the fastest technology ever invented by humans, AI, artificial intelligence. So, you have a 200,000-year-old caveman fighting the fastest technology ever built. And who do you think is winning that battle? All right? The caveman in the brain is winning. So, when I talk to CEOs, business owners, founders, VPs of sales, The number one problem they're telling me is not that AI is freaking everybody out. It's that they're not actually using the tools that they've been given. They're not implementing. They're not adopting. They're just sort of putting it over there and they're using it as a glorified typewriter. And that is not using it at all, really, certainly not to its potential. So, the caveman in the brain very simply is that ancient brain that tells you To fight, flight, or freeze. Okay? And so, it just basically says, stop. Don't do this because this is dangerous. It could kill you. Right? And that comes from caveman days, right? When we were back in the caveman days, if you're scared of something, that's a message that says, you know, hey, this could be a saber-toothed tiger. This could come out of the bushes and eat you. Okay? Well, we don't have saber-toothed tigers anymore, but we have this faster— the fastest technology, which feels like a saber-toothed tiger. So, that's why also, when you go to noahstjohn.com, in addition to the Caveman Calculator, right under that, you have the Caveman Quiz. So, you can actually determine which of the 4 caveman types you are. There are 4 different caveman types, distinct caveman types, and you can actually just answer 8 questions and you'll discover exactly what caveman type you are. Why is that important? Because people react differently to different situations. Some people charge right ahead, some people wait and see, some people delegate, some people ignore, and so on. So, the point is that With the Caveman Calculator and the Caveman Quiz, literally, in about 60 seconds, you can find out who you are and get insights into what the caveman brain might be costing you right now. So, to answer your question about when I'm engaging with clients, when I'm coaching people, and when I'm speaking, when I'm doing keynote speeches, whether it's to leadership summits or team meetings or sales kickoffs, it's all about showing people, number one, when you're fighting the caveman brain, You're not going to win. So, we don't want to fight it, we want to tame it. And, that's why I call it Tame the Caveman in the Brain. We're taming it. It's not going anywhere. We're not going to shove out, take out your brain. We're going to tame the caveman. And, that way, rather than trying to fight that ancient brain, we're going to use it and use the fastest technology. And, that's how you're going to get really breakthrough results.

Interesting. I would think a spouse could probably fill out the questions and tell you, Right out of the gate, which one of the 4 caveman types?

Absolutely. Absolutely. They probably know you better than you know yourself.

Probably know you better than you know yourself.

Indeed.

Indeed. So that's interesting because I am— the news says that 90% of AI projects fail. Yes, that's right. That's a large number. Now, I saw another contradictory one that said, well, 30% of AI projects are now leading to positive outcomes. So, we're somehow, but still 67%, 90%, it's still a pretty big failure rate. So, it seems to me that taking care of this caveman brain problem is an unlock to make AI work better for you.

And the irony is people aren't looking at it. They're looking at the surface, right? So, basically, you said it perfectly, Chad, because they're looking at the surface. Hey, this project isn't working. You guys Aren't working hard enough. Come on, you know, set your goals and and work harder and focus. You know, so that's what motivational speakers have been telling us for 100 years. Great. That doesn't work. Okay, we all know we got to focus. We got to work hard. No kidding. So I'm coming from the inside out. I'm coming from yes, the caveman in the brain, but I also like to call it the invisible break. There's an invisible break that happens for so many people, and why does it happen? Very simply. Because of that fear that I'm talking about, right? That caveman comes up, but they don't— it doesn't show up that way. It shows up as procrastination. It shows up as overwhelm. It shows up as, you know, I got this project to do, but I think I'll go watch Netflix, you know? So, there's all these things that people don't realize what the real problem is. And understanding the real problem and fixing it, well, that's one of the reasons that I've helped my clients make so much money, as you talked about, over $3 billion. Let me give you a perfect example from one of my clients. So, I was talking with one of my clients named Charles. Now, he is a business owner in North Carolina. And he took the caveman quiz and did the calculator and realized this was costing him a lot of money if he didn't fix it. So, we were on a call and I said to him, well, Charles, how much do you think it is costing you if we don't fix this problem, if we don't take off the brake, and if we don't tame the caveman? Well, without batting an eye, he said, $1 million. This is easily costing me $1 million, if not more. You know, just in the next 12 months. I said, Charles, I hear this every day. I mean, people say to me all the time, Noah, this is easily costing me $1 million, could be $5 million or more. So, we got to get this handled. I said, so, I tell you what, why don't we do this? Why don't you just give me 10% of that million, right? Just give me 10% and I will find you $1 million in the next 12 months, right? If you give me $1 and I give you $10 back, is that a good deal? He goes, yeah, that's a good deal. So, he said, let's do it. So, he hired me, right? So, he paid me $100 grand, right? That's 10% of $1 million, right? So, he invested $100,000 for, you know, one-on-one coaching with me. Now, as it turns out, I didn't find him $1 million in the next 12 months. Instead, I found him $1.8 million in just 10 months. So, he gave me a dollar and I gave him $18 back. Is that a good deal? No, that's a great deal. And he actually emailed me. He said, Noah, guess what? I'm on vacation now. I'm on a 7-week vacation. He said, I've never been able to do this before. I've never been able to take time off. He said, I've had a dream for 20 years. To buy an RV and travel the country with my wife. So, I bought a new RV with all this money I've got, and now I have more time than ever before. So, not only do I have more money than ever, I have more time than I've ever had in my life. And he said, thank you for changing my life. So, the point is, what is that costing you, right, to have that caveman brain? But also, maybe you have that invisible brake going. If you think about your goals, your goals are right there. But if you're driving down the road of life with one foot on the brake, it's going to take you a long time to reach your goal. So, we got to get that foot off the brake.

You know, it's interesting. A good friend of our family, I used to cut this gentleman's grass named Robert White. And he was— he's one of the grandfathers of the human transformation movement, right? He's been doing it for 4 decades. Mind Dynamics and some of these big companies, he's consulted with, you know, the big ones that are out there. He built at least 3 of Arc International. I mean, he's ran the big ones. And one of the things that he said that when he went to Asia for a decade is that the biggest thing people said in Asia-Pac was, you know, the biggest thing that you help us do that's important that no other training like this does— complete your past, right? And he has 3 phases to it: complete your past, tell the truth about your current reality, and then choose your future. And what I'm hearing you say, the parallel to this caveman brain Is does it tie into the complete your past component, or is that totally separate from the complete your past?

When you say completed path, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

Complete your past, meaning move on.

Past. I'm sorry. Okay.

Right. You're stuck on chapter one, and we're on chapter ten.

Got it. Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't. I didn't. I misheard you.

Yes.

Got it. Okay. Absolutely. I'll give you another example from another one of my clients. And he is the CEO of a 9-figure biodiesel company, actually. I mean, big, big company. And so, he was watching my videos, listening to interviews, reading my books, and he decided to hire me. And he had a lot of unresolved issues from the past that he just hadn't been able to get through. And when we started out together, it was tough going. It was a lot of kind of like— it was rough sailing, shall we say.

Yeah.

And, but, you know, I just kept walking him through the process and showing him that, you know, the more that you hold on to this caveman brain, again, and I'll say it a million times, we're not getting rid of it. You know, we can't, we're not, we're not performing a lobotomy here. You know, we're, we're, what we're doing is we're taming it and we're using it. And just to know it's there is just huge for some people just to realize, wait a minute, I've been run by this 200,000-year-old thing in my head that doesn't even understand where we are today. You know, let alone my own past, right? Of course, because we all have our past that we have to deal with and so forth. So, we're really dealing with these 2 ancient forces, right, in our unconscious, in our subconscious. So, anyway, so he was able to— I was able to help him get through that well. And you can watch, you know, his video along with over 200 other, you know, case studies on my website. But he literally said to me in one of our coaching, you know, one of our coaching calls, And I was not expecting this. He said, Noah, I have a 4-year degree from, and I won't say the name of the university, but it's a major university. I have a 4-year degree from this, you know, this university. He said, what you've taught me in 6 weeks is more valuable than what I got in a 4-year degree from this university. I was like, wow, okay. I was not expecting that because he was not, he's not, he's not one of those guys that like lavishes praise. He's Very, very soft-spoken. And I was like, wow, okay, I'm glad I recorded that because I was not expecting that. So, you know what I mean? So, but these are, these are really, in many cases, you know, very embedded things that are embedded deep in the subconscious that we, we do want to, we want to brush under the rug. We want to just kind of shove it and pretend it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, you know, you're lashing out at your kids or you're yelling at your employees for no reason or things like that. It always comes out some way. So, it's really better to deal with it. on a conscious level than have it be driving you from your subconscious because one way or another, it's going to come out.

Amazing. Noah, you've spoken at a TEDx. You've obviously written a lot of books. You speak at keynotes. If you were to fast forward to the beginning of next year or the end of this year and a company has just hired you, maybe you have a few that are on the docket now that you can think towards. Maybe it's there or it's not. But if you have something coming up, or if you had something coming up, what do you think would be a compelling topic to open up a keynote in January 2027?

Well, I mean, when you go to my website, you'll see that my 3 main topics are Tame the Caveman. Again, I've said it a million times, I'll say it a million more. Tame the Caveman in the Brain. Then we have Caveman Selling and Caveman Leadership. Okay, so the point is The flagship one, Tame the Caveman in the Brain. I have to introduce the concept because, as I just said, most people aren't aware of this. They don't know they're being run by a caveman. What? And so, it's really so much fun because what I do is I actually have everybody stand up and I have them go to the 4 corners of the room based on their caveman types. And I show them what the different 4 types are. And I say, all right, all of you chiefs go here. You watchers go here. You Keepers go here and you Sparks go here. That's the 4 names. All right. So, I go, I divide everybody up. All right. So, they're all here and they're like pointing at each other going, oh my God, that's so him. That's so him. You know, oh, I knew that was you. And they're just having so much fun. And so, then I say, all right. So, here's how you talk to the Chiefs and here's how you talk to the Keepers and the Watchers and the Sparks. And the point is whether you're in sales, whether you're in leadership, you have to understand what different people are that you, you know, we've all heard this a million times that you You should treat people the way you want to be treated. The irony is that's not really right. You want to treat people the way they want to be treated, right? That's actually a higher level of awareness. It's a higher level of understanding. And let's face it, it's a higher level of sales and leadership, right? Aren't those the 2 things that every company wants more of? Well, we want more sales and we want better leadership. No kidding, right? So, we've got to understand that you, as a leader, as a sales manager, as a VP, You are dealing with not just the individual people there, but you're also dealing with the caveman, right? Which is running people, you know, whether they like it or not. So, that's the beauty is we bring it to the surface and then people go, oh my gosh, I never thought of it that way. Yeah, no kidding, right? So, then they can get the break-off as I talk about, right? Taking the invisible break-off and boom, that's why we see these just huge, enormous, like I had another founder who was stuck at $4 million for 4 years. 4 years, he was stuck at $4 million. And I worked with him and his team. We got him to $20 million in less than 18 months. That's a 600% increase in 18 months. Think about this. Most people would be thrilled at a 10% increase, 15%. They're popping the champagne. 600%. And they didn't spend more on marketing or ads. It was all just getting rid of the head trash and taking the foot off the brake and taming that caveman. It was incredible.

Incredible success story. I mean, I've had almost 300 guests on this show over the last 5 and a half years, 6 years. And what I often ask is, you know, what skills should people focus on?

Yes.

And early on it was, well, you know, you got to do ChatGPT, you got to take this course, all these AI-powered stuff. The most common answer now is you got to get real back to basics and be a good communicator. And I think all that goes— focus on your human skill sets. And what our brains can do. And that's how you really unleash the power of where we're headed. So I think this— that's why, you know, a lot of times maybe a conversation like this, I'm like, well, this is a little out of bounds of my AI talk, but, but it's not because you can't have great AI if you don't have great human traits.

That's right. You know, I love that you brought that up, Chad, and I love that you're really putting the spotlight on that because it's what I've been teaching for 30 years. Which is inner game and outer game. All right. So, if you think about— I love Venn diagrams, by the way. In my keynote speeches, I'm always using Venn diagrams because I'm such a nerd and I love Venn diagrams. Well, this is the simplest Venn diagram of all time. It's just 2 intersecting circles and one says inner game and one says outer game. So, inner game is everything that happens between your ears that you can't see directly, but it's affecting everything that you do, right? Your beliefs, your thoughts, your desires, all of those things you can't see directly, but it's affecting everything. Right? That's where the caveman lives. The caveman is, of course, in the inner game. Well, then you have the outer game, which is all of the programming and all of the books and seminars that everybody's probably spent lots of time, money, and effort on. And just like that CEO I was just telling you about, who I took from $4 million to $20 million, he was great at outer game. And he— I mean, the outer game alone got him to $4 million. Hey, nothing wrong with that. People are thrilled at $4 million. But he knew he could do a lot more. But he just kept hitting that ceiling. It wasn't until I showed him how to master his inner game, that's when we had that enormous increase. So, most people listening to this program have spent lots of time, money, and effort on outer game, which you have to do. You have to do it. But if you're missing the inner game component, you're always going to hit that ceiling. So, AI is really more of a magnifier than anything else. It's the fastest technology ever built, but it's also the biggest magnifier. So, if you're doing something— if you were doing something wrong before AI and you add AI, it's just going to be worse. So that's why we've got to have both inner game and outer game so you can really get—

You know what's interesting? I have a friend and I'll leave him nameless because he's pretty personal with his life, but he's a PR guy for some pretty major celebrity people that you would have heard of. And, you know, where they pay him $100 grand for a day to come in and help them with a PR situation. Right. And I invited him to be at one of my events that I held in Utah one time, 12 people. No reason. It was in Utah. I'm from Colorado. It just happened to be there. And it was kind of cool. We, you know, at a ski resort kind of thing. And he was like, wait, you paid for my airfare? You, you know, you paid for my room? I'm an attendee as much as I am an instructor. And so I got value out of it. Why would you do that? And he was kind of confused on my approach to life, my belief system. And but he took it back and he said normally he would go into a company and go, all right, I'm $100,000. I'm going to give you your forward purpose statement as a result of 4 days and you're going to love me because you're going to pay me all this money. Well, he changed his belief system at the core level to where he went into this big church in Texas and said, don't, don't pay me anything. I just want to, I just want to add value for you. And it was new for him, right? As a result of this free thing that I walked him through, he now paid it forward. And he was like, Chad, that resulted in— they ended up making me take money even though I told them I didn't want to. And then I did another deal like that where they offered me, hey, we'll take 10% of the increase in revenue. He's like, Chad, I am situated for life because I shifted my mindset from making you pay me what I'm worth to giving you my value and you experiencing it. And I was like, wow.

Wow.

Little old me can convince someone of that level of impact.

Amazing. Amazing.

And it just shows you what's stuck inside of our minds.

Yes.

The remnants that if you could just chiropractor of the mind a little bit, you can change the rest of your life. Yes. Wow.

That's amazing.

It was pretty neat. When I got that call at 5:00 AM, I was like, and he just said, you don't understand the value of that. It was like, wow. I had no idea. You know, it's neat when you get the feedback. A lot of times we don't get the $4 million to $18 million, you know, boomerang story. And it's neat that you've been able to track $3 billion in revenue. So outstanding. All right. What we're coming up on the half hour, a couple more questions. You obviously deployed AI on your site with that slider. And I love that. Where are you in the process of deploying AI personally as a mindset coach to, you know, billionaires? You're obviously adopting some levels of it. How do you see the use of AI in your daily life?

Well, going back to what I was saying earlier, and, and just to give people a little perspective, um, I've been online— I started selling programs on coach and coaching online since 1997. So, I mean, literally before, you know, when it was still dial-up, remember? Remember all that?

Yeah.

So, it was a long, long time.

You got mail.

I'm kind of like the Warren Moon of, you know, coaching because, I mean, I actually met Warren Moon. He's an amazing guy. And, you know, he played quarterback over 4 decades. Well, I've been doing it over 4 decades, the '97, you know, the '90s, the aughts, the tens, and here we are in the 20s. So, anyway, my point is that, When that happened, that was, of course, the internet revolution. Well, the internet revolution, if you think about it, took about 7 years, right? About 7 years to really hit its zenith. Well, here we are in the second revolution, the AI revolution. Well, that took about 7 months. So about 10 times faster. So we've literally never seen anything like this in human history. That's why so many people are freaking out. Interestingly, though, coming back to something we said we're talking about earlier, for example, I was reading about how Ford, you know, the motor company, laid off all of these, they call them the graybeards. You know, they were the older guys that had been working there for decades. And they said, hey, we're just going to have AI do everything. Well, guess what? AI couldn't do it. I mean, they couldn't, they just couldn't do it. They messed up everything there. And they literally had to spend hundreds of millions, maybe billions in recalls. And so, what did they do? They brought all the graybeards back. They say, guys, guess what? We need you. No kidding, really?

You know what I mean?

So, there's a lot of people that they're seeing AI and saying, oh, it's the solution to everything. And it's like, no, not so much. Not really. No, it isn't. Certainly, it can help a lot. I mean, it absolutely can be a very big time saver. And I mean, I use it every day. And I mean, it's a great helper. But I always remind my clients, look, you are the human being. You have to make the final decision. You know, we hear so much about AI slop. Why? Because there's so much AI slop. And what is AI slop? Well, somebody puts in a prompt, says, hey, write a blog post. Okay, blah. And it's just dumb. It's stupid. But they put it up and they don't put any thought into it. The human being, they just say, oh, you know what? I'm lazy. Let's just put it up there. Well, I'm lazy like everybody else, but you still have to put a little effort in there. You still have to put a little thought in because the AI doesn't know you. Like, you know, so you have to understand that what we want now is we're— what we're really looking for, what people are looking for, is perspective. They're looking for insight. They're looking for people who have, you know, other gray beards. I might not have a gray beard, but I certainly have a lot of gray hair because I've been doing this a long time. You know, people who have that insight, and maybe it has been built over, you know, years or decades. So, that's really how I'm using it. And that's what I advise my clients to do as well. Yeah.

I mean, I think of the term Someone needs to come up with a website, AI Gone Wild, you know, a new TV show hosted by some cool TV guy because I just got the same call twice in a row by this sexy voice, I'll call it, right? And it was like, hey, Chad. And I'm like, what the heck is this? And it was like, this is going to be the best 3-minute— I promise you it'll only take 3 minutes. Wow. This could be the best call you've ever had. And I'm like, what the heck is this?

Wow.

It's some job offer. I think it was a sales pitch. Some AI LinkedIn tool or something.

Right.

And I was like, icky, you know, don't try to get under my skin with some weird voice that's not even a real person.

Yeah, it was— That's creepy. That's creepy. That's fine.

It was just creepy and gross. And I was like, okay, hang up. Never call me again. Oh my God.

I can't imagine they would think that would have good conversions. By the way, I do want to mention something really quick talking about conversions. NP Digital, which is headed by Neil Patel, who I'm a Huge fan of his. I've interviewed him on my program. Brilliant guy. Anyway, he actually showed data that shows that 93% of companies are focused on traffic, right? They're focused on getting more leads, but they've found out, well, where does revenue come from? Well, 68% of revenue is generated by conversions. And it's like, so what is sexy is getting more leads, But what makes money is the conversion. So, that's why I'm known as the Caveman Conversion King, right? Because yes, I've been talking about the caveman in the brain. But what is the practical application of that? The practical application is why aren't people converting? Sales teams, sales leaders, why aren't we seeing the conversions that should be coming from AI? Why aren't they increasing? Well, because of the caveman that I've been talking about, right? So, here you have the ancient brain. Here you have the fastest technology.

Boom!

They're fighting and fighting. Who do you think is going to win? You're right, the caveman, right? The caveman is going to win every time until you learn to tame him. So, the point is that it's conversions. That is the lever that most companies, teams, individuals are not switching. They focus so much on the leads, which you need, of course. But it's the conversions. So, all we have to do is just move that lever a little bit, like 10%, and boom! Not only do conversions go up, but your revenue goes up, your profit goes up, and that's where people are missing. So, you know, I've given you lots of examples of that and how, you know, Damien the Caveman really gets that scaling, uh, and really gets what we call it hockey stick because you go along like this and then boop, we just went through the roof. It's a hockey stick and it's pretty exciting.

Yeah. Well, SDR/BDR teams right now, which is what I've been part of for the last more than decade or 2 probably, are only hitting 50% of their pipeline targets right now. And I have to believe that that's a missed expectation. Hey, let's look at the activities and then let's look at what comes out the other side. And then we're just going to say more. And I was a— I was in error on this judgment 10 years ago, right? More activities equals more revenue. And it was— and that is not always the case.

No.

Revenue. My friend Skip Miller, who's no longer with us, that I've known for decades, taught me this simple equation: revenue equals frequency times competency. And so, the frequency doesn't always have to be at the highest level. It's that competency, meaning same thing as conversion, really.

Conversion. Exactly. Exactly the same. That's right.

It's all about that.

That's right. So, we want to move that lever, you know, but that's the funny part is that's the lever that's stuck by the caveman. See how this all comes together? It all comes together, you know, and it's, it's really powerful. That's why I like to give examples because people need to say, well, but how does it really work for me? Or how can I apply this? I mean, that's why go to the website, use the calc— use the caveman calculator, run your numbers, and then take the caveman quiz. Find out which of the 4 you are, and then we can get on a call. We can look at it, right? We'll do a caveman conversion audit. And really, there's nobody listening to this program that isn't losing money right now. But what's funny and sad is that it's invisible. It's an invisible cost. It's not going to show up anywhere. It's conversions that you don't have. Well, how can you measure a conversion you don't have? You can't. So, you're not really seeing it. It's not showing up as all this red ink. But it's what are you missing? That's the gap, right? And let's face it. That's what I've been filling for my clients for over 30 years now. And boom! Let's fill it. I mean, that's what it's all about.

I came up with the term at Informatica before we were acquired by Salesforce about a year ago. And I knew Salesforce was all about what are the outcomes, right?

What's the revenue?

And so I came up with this statement. I can't remember if I trademarked it or not. I wanted to. I think I may have. Pipeline is cool. Revenue pays the bills.

Right. That's right.

You can do all the activity and drive everything you want at top of funnel, but if it doesn't convert, then why?

And what drives revenue is conversions. That's the lever. That's the lever we've got to put, but the caveman's got his hand right on it. He's like, I'm not moving that. I don't want to do that. I'd rather watch Netflix.

No kidding.

Okay. Well, yeah, let's just get even just 10%. Boom. And you're gonna, you're gonna see a huge, huge, huge difference.

Wow. Well, if people want to hire you to be a keynote speaker, um, or they want to buy one of your books, what, um, give us some advice on what's the next steps to take with Noah St. John.

If you want to run that caveman calculator in the quiz, just go to the homepage, noahstjohn.com.

Easy to remember.

If you want to book me as a speaker, just check my availability at booknoah.com. Also easy to remember. Who should we book? booknoah.com. Easy to remember. But yeah, you could just check it all out there. We have Tame the Caveman in the Brain, Caveman Selling, and Caveman Leadership. Those are the 3 areas that every business, team, organization really needs right now. And you are bleeding conversions right now and you don't even know it. So, run your own numbers. Find out for yourself. And then let's talk.

Outstanding. Noah, thanks so much for being here today. It's been a pleasure to, uh, get to have this conversation with you.

Absolutely my pleasure. All right.

Thanks everyone for joining another AI for Sales podcast. Catch you next time.