Ferment Forward: The Probiotic Power of Cultured Foods

Hi, everybody. I'm Dr. Sandhya Moldovan, periodontist and nutritionist. Welcome to the Holistic Dentistry Podcast, the show that gives you the tips and tools to detoxify your mouth for a healthier body as we explore together the root cause of disease. Remember, you're not healthy until your mouth is healthy, so take care of it in the most natural way. Welcome to today's show, everyone. I am so excited to be talking about fermented foods. And with me today is Jeannie Peters. Welcome, Jeannie.

I'm so glad to be here. Dr. Sanda. Thank you.

I know I have to share with everyone, you know, how we met. I think definitely it was over 10 years ago, and this is when I first started looking into nutrition, because as a periodontist, I had one semester of nutrition and I didn't know much about it. And then I remember taking this integrative nutrition course in Malibu, and you were talking about foods, and I was so impressed with the wealth.

I remember that. I remember that's our very first time we met together. Correct. That was a great meeting. You know, if you had to go ahead and bring be together with people that were on the cutting edge of nutrition, that was one of those times, definitely.

And even after that, you know, we started treating patients together because we understand the importance of oral health with overall health. And then we ran into each other at other meetings and our discussion continued, and we talked many times about fermented foods and the importance of fermented foods. And yes, wait for you to share with us also about you. How did you get into nutrition?

You know, it's. It's interesting story. So I was a lifeguard. I was the head of our swim team. I was a super athlete and really was always looking for ways that I could optimize my performance. And so I just knew nutrition was a piece, and it became something that was a driving force. I ended up getting into an internship in which I was able to do three years and two, which I was real excited about, getting in and out of school. That was back in Buffalo. And then I took a trip across the country on a bicycle with my girlfriend and. And I landed at Kaiser Permanente Hospital, which is where my husband works and worked. And I got my first job. But I found out pretty quickly I really didn't want to work with hospitalized patients. My interest was to work with the healthy and well, and how could I help them age better? How could I help them perform better? That was really my, you know, kind of living passion. So I shifted gears and you know, kind of a long story, but I met. I met Alan, you know, my husband and, er, I had an accident. I met him. He and I developed a relationship. We both love to work out. We both were using healthy foods as a way to optimize our performances in sports. And down the years, my husband got more and more burnt out and decided, I want to do something that's more interesting than. I'm dealing with healthy people rather than dealing with people that are coming into the emergency room and are kind of like on death's doorstep many times. So you know you want.

Right. You're focusing on a health model, not a disease.

Yeah, exactly. So any event, we've been working together now for 18 years. It's been a great practice, Sanda. So we're working with healthy people that want to age. Well.

What's amazing about both of you is that you practice what you preach. I mean, you are triathletes.

Yeah.

Which is amazing because you're still running triathletes. Like, how long now has it been since you started with triathlons?

We did them when they first came out, which was in the 80s. And then I just did one last month. It was a 70.3, so, you know, it's. For me it was about an eight hour day, but it was a fun day. I mean, I wasn't going crazy hard, but I was. It was a fun day. I was doing it with my sons. They both were also competing and so it was just. It was just great to be able to share that kind of an experience with my son that's 33, my other son ended, ending up not getting into that triathlon, but it was a fun day. So fermented foods plays a role in this. So there's a reason why we're having this conversation. The power of fermented foods.

Yeah. So you're a certified wellness coach and a registered dietitian now for over 40 years and.

44. 44. 44.

Congratulations. How has really the world of nutrition changed in the last 40 years?

You know, I'll be honest, I'm going to be honest about my connection with the ada. I feel like, you know, I am not a big advocate for all foods can fit in a diet. We know that the world is getting more and more. There's more and more processed foods that are lining the shelves. You know, we're getting away from the simplicity of eating. I think food is incredibly confusing for people. I wish that we could find ways to make it simpler. I wish that it was something that was Integrated into, you know, our curriculum from a very early age. There's a lot that we could be doing to help make the nutrition piece something that could be fun and exciting. They certainly go ahead and teach it, like in France, in a way in which they take pride in the foods that they produce and create. So I feel like we have a long haul, let me put it that way.

Yeah. Well, anything that we can do, you know, now all these kids using technology, maybe that would be a good way to introduce. You know, I would love to brainstorm with you how we can do this, because I believe that it's so important. My husband and I garden. We have an organic garden and 60 trees, a bunch of things I know you grow. You have chickens in your backyard.

Yeah.

So, yeah. So important to know where food comes from.

And if you're growing your own food. Just think about farmers, you know, just. Were just people that were of the agrarian age. In order to be able to allow those foods to be eaten throughout the year, they had to ferment them. So, you know, you think about the cabbages. You would take cabbage, you would make it into big crocks of cabbage. That was what would get you through the winter months when vegetables were very scarce. And then people that were more of the, you know, that were dairy farmers, they recognized that there was power in fermenting dairy so that you could consume. That milk lasts only maybe seven to 10 days, but once you fermented it, like making kefir or yogurt or cottage cheese, it might last a month or more. So, you know, there was power in the way that early peoples around the world all fermented foods, not only to preserve and make them last longer, but just for the nutritional benefits.

Yeah. And, you know, I have patients that don't eat any fermented food at all, because I think, number one, they're scared of it.

Yeah.

They're scared of bacteria. They're scared of getting sick. So how would one start to incorporate fermented foods in their diet?

That's a great question. Well, first of all, remember that our tongue has all these different tastes, and one of those taste buds or receptors is for sour. And we don't tend to eat enough sour foods in our culture, so kids aren't exposed to it from an early age. So if you were looking at, like, a simple way, it's just literally taking a teaspoon, like, I've had some. I had a patient the other day. She was feeling a little bit like you just mentioned, a little afraid of these things. So I just had her go ahead and take. Well, I'll just show you. I have, like, this wild brine. I had her use some of this and just take a tablespoon and put it into her salad. Just start. You will awaken that sour taste bud. And once you do, you awaken that. It's amazing how it transforms people's connection to sugar, because oftentimes we're using sweets as the predominant flavor that we are always feeding. Right. But. But when you awaken the sour taste, it's such an amazing way of being able to, like, counterbalance that sweet. She has a problem with sweets, so I'm just having her on this. But I've had many patients, so I just started on just doing a teaspoon, move up to a tablespoon, then take a little bit and put it into your salad. And usually by about three weeks, people's taste buds now accepted that flavor. Another way that you could do it, I'm using this for my water bottle, but this is kombucha. This is a little bit on the sweet side. So some people who maybe aren't quite ready for that kind of sour taste or like vinegary taste, they might start with a kombucha and then maybe start adding mineral water to it, and then eventually they might find that taste more acceptable. So there's a lot of different ways that you can approach it, but I think we want to recognize that we have a taste for sour for a purpose. It awakens not only these receptors on the tongue, but it's awakening your gallbladder, you know, so that you can actually put out more bile to digest your foods better.

Yeah. So what are fermented foods? Some people might not even know what we're talking about. You mentioned sauerkraut.

It's a good point. People. People know sauerkraut, but they. But a lot of times you get sauerkraut out of a can, you know, and that's been. They used vinegar. So the foods that you and I are referring to, like, I'm just going to show up a couple of foods that some people, you might know kimch. You might know apple cider vinegar. This is. Let me take a look and see if you can see that. Cottage cheese. This is good culture cottage cheese. I love this because it's fermented with, like, five different probiotics, you know, so it has a tangier flavor. This one is a cream cheese spread. So, you know, you can find a lot more foods that are everyday foods that are cultured. You know, you can buy things like miso or fermented tofu or shoyu or some of the sauces that are fermented. I love, you know, a lot of people like yogurt. You can even find some of the sauces like sriracha sauce, now that's fermented. So there's, there's a whole host of foods that are out there that we can start to introduce people to and we can talk about the benefits. Why?

Yeah. And today more than ever, there's so many more choices out there for fermented foods. Even when it comes to a sour dough and even. And it could be a gluten free sourdough that's so, so important to have versus just a regular bread. For example.

What's one of your favorite fermented foods that you keep around? What would I find in your refrigerator?

Well, we pickle things. You know, I love origin, so we love, especially in the wintertime. I grew up, I remember my grandma and my mom, they always pickled everything. But I love pickled cauliflower.

Yeah, there's something about that. There's something about it.

I.

How do you, do you, how do you pickle yours?

So we actually, you know, I and I watch my mom make it and we still, my mom is 83 years old, she's in great health, and we still pickle together. I, I believe that, you know, eating fermented food is really a longevity food.

I agree, I agree.

Like, we pick out green tomatoes. So we have a mix green tomatoes, we have cauliflower, we have like slices of red bell peppers. We put it together and we put mustard seeds and that tangy flavor. And typically we'd leave it for a period of time undisturbed in an area without oxygen. Right. We have special German clay pots. So for six weeks. And after six weeks it has this amazing sour flavor. A little bit tangy. Yeah.

And you know, it's amazing thing Sandy, is you cannot, you cannot find some of these flavors. Like, you couldn't just go to the grocery store and find that. So, you know, when you added like the mustard seeds or. I always use caraway seeds and I love to use like herbs like dill and dill seed and that you create flavors that are unique. And now we know that seeds are like harbingers of like unbelievable energy and things that can help to repair the DNA. So you start creating flavors that have depth and what a great gift to give to people because it's not something that you could ever go ahead and find. You know, it's not like you can recreate these. So I've used even turmeric. And so it's kind of fun and it gives you a connection with your mother. And it reminds me of. Did you ever see that Blue Zones film, How to live to 100?

Yes, I have.

So I remember that Okinawans, you know, they have this history of longevity, but they pickle and make like so many different kinds of vegetables, but then also like their miso and some of their sauces. And I think that's part of their prescription. You know, it's creating food, it's living close to the earth, it's in gardening, but also just the shared experience of eating some of those foods together.

So I have to ask you, what's your favorite cultured food?

So I would say, number one, it's kefir. I use the kefir grains, and I make a batch every single week. And it's just literally those kefir grains you add. I use a 2 milk. So I use the grass fed a 2 milk. I'll pour it into a pint or a quart jar usually, and then just let it sit overnight in my kitchen. And the next day it's thick. And then I decant that. And then when my husband had his B cell lymphoma, I ensured that he had two servings of that every single day. And the cool thing about kefir that I just love is that when it's going through the fermentation process. So think of that. Those cultures, it's kind of like combination of bacteria and yeast. They are breaking down and making thousands and thousands of peptides. Peptides. You know, we took that peptide course in that breaking down process. They're producing lactic acid and so many other kinds of bacteria. And, you know, we consume that, so we're adding that value into our diet. And I just always feel so good if I start off my day with kefir. But I know a lot of people are dairy sensitive. Although, you know, sometimes using a better grade of milk that can help, you know, juicing the A2 milk. But, you know, you can actually make kefir now out of coconut milk or, you know, other kinds of milks.

Mentioned a2 milk, which I think it's important to make that distinction because it's a European type of milk. We find mostly A2 cows in Europe. What's the difference between our A1 versus A2 mil?

Well, the A2 was the original, you know, and then we went ahead and brought cows over basically through genetic. It was not genetic Modification, but just through the genetic process they're less likely to break down. The milks are more difficult to break down. So the A2 milk is just superior in the sense that we're better able to digest it so more people can drink milk that formerly thought they couldn't or maybe thought that they had a lactose intolerance. So I've been able to reintroduce many of my patients back into the benefits of milk just by switching to the A2. But it makes superior, superior kefir. Oh, I just can't believe how thick and delicious it is. And I like the Alexander farms. I know the woman who was, you know, one of the farmers and she's just fabulous. And I've seen their cattle, they're you know, in beautiful nature with fantastic grass. So you know, if you're looking for a brand of milk, if you're somebody that's listening to this and you're looking for a brand of milk that you can reintroduce to your children that you think maybe can't handle milk, think again. Because that Alexander it farms might be the place to start.

So you know, some of people listening might not even know what kefir is. What's the difference between kefir and let's say cult or buttermilk or cultured milk?

So kefir again starts off with using this kefir grains and it's pre digesting the milk to turn it into a thick beverage. And gosh, there must be like two or three hundred articles on PubMed about these thousands of peptides that are then produced which are like these short chains of amino acids that could be anywhere from two to 40 different chains of various amino acids. Each of those amino acids has different healing properties. So it's an amazing beverage to help somebody in the healing journey. I have an interesting case if you don't mind me just sharing. I had a patient who had a very bad case of C. Diff. And you know that bacteria you often find in hospitals and she's pretty sure that that's where she picked it up.

You can get the genie also from using too many antibiotics like clindamycin and.

Some of my older patients.

I don't give it because of the C. Diff risk.

Yeah. So you run that risk if you, if you actually start treating it with antibiotics. And in her case she got caught into a cycle where she could not wean off of the antibiotics because it would re trigger again. So she came to me and was looking for a solution and I gave her some of those kefir grains. She was somebody that could handle a little bit of dairy. And so she started drinking that. And when she was due, so it had been about three months that she had been drinking the kefir pretty much throughout the day, like maybe four, four ounces, like three or four times a day. She was freaking out about the weaning process, but she weaned off for the first time. You know, after like two years that she was on and off of the C. Diff problem, she finally is. She's doing great right now. So that was one example of somebody that was able to, you know, improve because kefir can be stronger than the power, you know, C Diff. Now you're using fourth generation antibiotics. And sometimes people are not, you know, successful.

Yes. Why is it important for us to have fermented foods in our diet? What does that do for us?

Well, let's just start with like, just the digestion process. You know, think about how many clients that, you know, have trouble with, you know, feeling bloated or they feel when they eat, you know, that just feels like food just sits in their stomach. Having a little bit of cultured foods at every meal brings in enzymes. So remember that when you're making cultured foods, you're not using heat, otherwise you would destroy those enzymes. So they're enzyme rich, which can help with the breakdown process. You can actually improve digestion. And then think about if you're taking cultured foods, what the difference is between that and a probiotic. Cultured foods are found with a. Think of it as like, the microbes have like a little lunchbox that they can carry with them all the way down past the stomach acids, you know, all the way down into like the colon. So they have this, like, food source that's helping them for this long, perilous journey. And then when they arrive at their destination, it's like, oh, my God, we have energy, we can get going, we can start doing our jobs. And the cool thing about cultured foods is that you're supplying your body then not only with these enzymes, but also with these microbes that help to rebalance the gut bacteria. And, you know, if we have more of those good guys, there's more good things that are going on inside the gut, like making B vitamins and, you know, helping to improve metabolic health and making sure that you're decreasing inflammation. And now there's a study that came out just a couple of weeks ago showing how fermented foods may be a key ingredient with helping to improve weight loss just simply because it's down regulating some of the inflammatory markers and upregulating things that can help with insulin resistance. That can help to improve bdnf, brain derived neurotrophic factor helping our brain to function better. Oh my gosh. I could go on helping to improve moods. Yeah. There's just so many benefits of fermented foods and I think we're just getting started. Well, for you, look at your field. Please tell us because I mean, just swishing your mouth with a little bit of probiotic juice or like something like this wild brine. I love the juice.

Yeah, yeah. I think even kefir is so beneficial. I believe it has a cleansing effect even in minimizing the plaque because the enzymes that are there in fermented foods actually help to break down the plaque.

That's such an amazing point. Everybody should be on this. Like we should just be writing a prescription like you have. This is the best medicine that you can take three times a day and you don't have to worry. Even just gum inflammation, I bet.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I think the peptides that you're talking about, those absorb easily through the intestinal tract. But since the mouth is the opening of the GI tract, I believe we do get some absorption in the guts with these peptides from fermented foods.

Absolutely.

So can people that are lactose intolerant take in kefir or you don't recommend it?

I love to have people who are open enough to give it a try. There's usually 10 to 15 different types of bacteria that are naturally found in kefir. And one of the things that happens over that overnight process while it's sitting is that those bacteria are breaking down not only all these peptides, but they're breaking down the lactose. And so many kefir brands that are actually available on the market, you know, actually say 1% lactose? Well, you know, that might be enough for some people who are lactose intolerant to give a problem. But for a lot of people who are maybe just mildly lactose intolerant, they may still be able to consume it. I usually have people test it out with taking a very small dose like a tablespoon and just see if they have a reaction. Unfortunately, we're in a time right now where we tend to look at milk as being the bad guy. But I think again, if we, if we're choosing better milk, you know, particularly from grass finished cows, milk is an amazing nutrient dense food and if you culture it your own Adult, you're improving that nutritional profile. And for many kids, you know, who really have maybe a very limited palate, you know, being able to start them on something that is kind of a sour taste is helping to expand their palate. So, yeah, I think, you know, I'd love to see more kids be introduced to the power of cultured foods, because I think it would make a huge difference in their health and well being. Yeah.

And how early can kids start on fermented foods?

So great, because I have another test case I want to share with you. I had a mom who had her first child, and he, within about maybe three months, started having eczema, ear infections, was on antibiotics, and then had the eczema, and then was scratching the eczema. And she came to me to help find a homeopathic medicine, which there are many, thank goodness. But I also just started her by putting a teaspoon of the sauerkraut juice into her breast milk. So she would just feed him that. So she did that three times a day. And within one week, he stopped the scratching where, you know, was literally bleeding. And then within two weeks, his skin was amazing. And within three weeks, the eczema was gone. So there's a case where, you know, just a little bit just started. And now she's also introduced him, will flavor that. Now he really thrives on those cultured vegetables. So you could approach the same way with kids who are maybe resistant, you know, just putting it or sneaking it in, like stealth nutrition. They don't even know it's there, like in a smoothie or something.

Yeah. You know, I love that you mentioned eczema, because people who have skin problems is a sign of poor gut health when you're talking about eczema. Yeah.

So, you know what's fascinating, I just was reading another study about the benefit of fermented foods is because it helps to improve the biofilm of the whole gut lining. So it strengthens that one single cell. You know, that's all it is between the outside world and the inside world. So strengthening that with that biofilm is giving you, like, double protection, giving you this strength so that your gut is working like a shield against all the toxins that we're constantly exposed to.

Yeah. So. So I love that we're talking about the benefits of fermented foods. Everybody, from what you're saying, should be eating it every day, whether it's kefir, whether it's sauerkraut juice.

And here's the thing I would say I have seen where Some people would use like maybe this synergy, you know, this would be their primary source. And they're maybe drinking two of those a day and then they're telling me, oh, my God, I'm so bloated. This is still pretty sweet. If it's sweet, it means that, you know, the bacteria hasn't broken down the sugars completely because true Kombucha. Did you ever make kombucha?

I have, actually. I had it the mother. I was making kombucha, and if you leave it long enough, it tastes totally like vinegar.

Oh, yeah. And I don't know that you necessarily want to wait to that point, but I have and I use that vinegar. But you know, early on when you first make it, it's super sweet. So then basically that bacteria is pre digesting that. They're feeding on that. That's what's helping them to grow. But if you're using this as your only source, it's potentially a problem. If you are the type that, you know, maybe you're feeding, you're creating almost like a little party down there so that some of the bad bacteria is, you know, maybe then producing some methane and hydrogen sulfide and actually contributing. So I think, you know, a little bit is good. I wouldn't say that a lot is maybe the answer.

Yeah. Kombucha, for those of you that don't know, is basically green tea and sugar. So what happens is if that sugar is not digested, then you end up with too much sugar. You're right. Two bottles of kombucha probably has 30 grams of sugar. I don't. I don't know.

It does. No, it's actually, I'm looking at this one. This is 16 grams. 16? No, this one's actually 12. But total sugar is 12 grams. So if you were having this, you know, this is. This is not going to help you improve your metabolic health. But a little of this. I have had many patients who, you know, were looking at ways to wean off wine or to find a healthier soda. And so I would start them on this with a little bit of mineral water, maybe a third of the kombucha and 2/3 mineral water, and they find they've got a refreshing drink. So that would be an appropriate way of incorporating it into the diet for somebody who's not quite ready to handle the more sour flavors.

Now, if somebody wants to start making their own fermented foods at home, where would they start to learn this? Or, you know, buy kefir seeds?

You know, you can Buy the kefir grains online. I was lucky enough to have a patient that introduced me to hers, and I've been giving it away. So, my gosh, if you're interested in kefir grains, I'm happy to give some to you. And then just to know that there's Cultures for health, that's a great company and you can just go online and purchase, you know, if you wanted to make your own yogurt. But I think kefir is the easiest of all of the cultured foods to make because it's literally just pour milk in and then you let it sit overnight. So you and I don't have a problem making cultured foods, but you would have to, like, you know, make a brine.

And you.

And you do have to know a little bit about the right amounts of salt. There are a ton of YouTube videos out there. Just go online. You could find that if you just wanted to get started. But I think it's a fun process and worth knowing. And if you're the type of person that's listening to your show, you know, you're probably a little bit more a do it yourselfer. And so, you know, just start with kefir. Buy the kefir grains and give it a shot. And you'll feel like you're a powerful person in your own kitchen because you're making something from scratch. And that's very empowering. And then to be able to give it to your children or your friends, your family, it takes it to another level. There's something really empowering when we make some of our own foods from things that we've grown. Like you are as a, you know, as a gardener. But it's also fun just to make foods like cheese. You know, you can make kefir cheese if you were interested. So start with that. I think it's a great question, and.

I love that it only takes 24 hours for you to get here. That's incredible.

In the summertime, you know what, when it's warmer in your kitchen, it may only take about 16. So it's. It's quite fascinating how the temperature, you know, it's getting cooler now. So our houses, it might require 24 hours, but never really more.

Great. I want to just bring up this notion of prebiotics because we are talking about probiotics today. But do you feel like it's necessary for people to do prebiotics?

I don't. You know, I mean, it's so funny, Sandra, when I was starting a Nutrition, which is 44 years ago, I worked in a health food store. You couldn't find prebiotics, you couldn't find probiotics. It wasn't even a category. You know, it really didn't start until about 20 years ago. And now I think, oh, my God, how confusing. Vegetables. Just eat vegetables. You know, certain vegetables are amazing, like onions and leeks, garlic. I mean, they're amazing in terms of just naturally having these components that just help to feed the good bacteria. But all vegetables, I mean, I grow radishes and the radish leaves. You know, they found that they are, like, some of the best ingredients to grow bacteria. So I always put the radish leaves in when I'm making, like, a cultured food. I'll throw them on the top because they grow the bacteria so well. So I love cultured radishes. Yeah. So if you're growing radishes, chop them up and put them in your salad just a little.

A lot of people just throw away the leaves of the radishes.

I know, I know they throw away the carrot tops and all of that, but, you know, all of those are things that can grow. So I am with you that I don't think you have to go and buy a prebiotic. But, you know, I do have some of those clients that say, I think that a vegetable is green peas. You know, they're not really. They're not really eating a wide variety. So I will start them on, like, a prebiotic fiber, you know, like, maybe use some psyllium flakes or some acacia powder or something like that just to get them started. Maybe a green banana. Just chop that up a little bit just to get them something in their diet that would help to grow the good guys. So. Yeah, good question. And I'm curious what you think about using some fermented foods versus a probiotic.

Yeah, actually, nothing replaces fermented foods. The pill replace real food. It's a. It's a substitute. And, yeah, it's. You know, we know we need to constantly take it just like fermented foods. We have to keep it as a habit. But whether you can do both, I don't know about that. What is your recommendation?

I think it's a great question because I. You know, again, I realized just 40 years ago, you couldn't find them. Now we're getting into a new evolution of probiotics that are like the spore base. So they're actually coming with their little lunchbox. You know, they actually have, like, they're able to go ahead and get past the Stomach acid. So that's pretty interesting technology, but it's not cheap. So a lot of the probiotics that you're going to find sitting on a shelf, not in the refrigerator, it may take six hours. If they even get past the stomach acids, it'll still take six hours for the right conditions to help them to grow. I think, again, you know, fermented foods, you know, they come with their own lunchbox. They're there, they're ready, they're robust. By the time they get, the ones that make it past the stomach acids are the really, you know, robust ones that are ready to go to work for you. So I think if you can get people to go and use these foods in their diet, oh, my gosh. It's like food is medicine. It's one of the best forms of food as medicine.

Yeah. Well, Jeanne, it's been so enlightening to talk to you about fermented foods. It is so important. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to discussing more interesting topics. Yeah. Where can people find you? Where can people work with you?

I'm in Redondo Beach. I'm looking out at the beach right now. So I'm right on the real close to the ocean. But we work in redondo beach@nourishingwellness.com so you just go to Nourishing Wellness. You can learn a lot about the kind of work that my husband and I do, and you can reach out to me, jpnourishing Wellness. If you've got a question, I'm happy to answer. I'm just a real advocate for using food as medicine, and I know we share that passion together. So, so thankful that you invited me today.

Oh, my pleasure. I think what you're doing is amazing. Any of you out there listening and you're in Redondo beach and want to optimize your health. I highly recommend both you and Dr. Peters. I know you know my mom and I have both patients of yours, and I love what you're doing.

Yeah. Say hello to your mother for me because I know she's a huge advocate of fermented foods. Hopefully she'll listen to our podcast.

Going to put the links in the chat below and have an amazing day. Thank you so much for joining me this week. Please make sure you check out the show notes for any links mentioned in the show. If you like today's show, please invite your friends to listen as well. That would mean a lot to me. Do you have a question you'd like me to answer? Message me on Instagram. Dr. Sanda, this is Dr. Sandra that. And remember, your mouth is the gateway to your health. So take care of it in the most natural and best way possible.