Mercury-Free Dentistry Movement with Charles G. Brown

Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Sanda Moldovan, periodontist and nutritionist. Welcome to the Holistic Dentistry Podcast, the show that gives you the tips and tools to detoxify your mouth for a healthier body as we explore together the root cause of disease. Remember, you're not healthy until your mouth is healthy, so take care of it in the most natural way. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Holistic Dentistry Show. I'm super excited today to continue the mercury talk. Uh, today with me I have Charles Brown. He is the executive director of Consumers for Dental Choice. And president of the World Alliance for Mercury-Free Dentistry, a global coalition of dentists, environmentalists, and patients working together to phase out the use of mercury in the dental industry, which is so needed. I mean, we have Europe banning mercury, but still in United States is still readily used. Mr. Brown also participated in the negotiations of the Minamata Convention on Mercury and He didn't even know such a convention existed. So of course I'm going to ask you more questions about that. Um, since then, he has worked with governments, dental schools, dental associations, manufacturers, hospitals, local NGOs, and other stakeholders to move towards a mercury-free dentistry for all of us. I'm so excited to have you on the show, uh, today, uh, Charlie Brown. And over the last two decades, you've been such such an important force in this fight against mercury. I want to thank you so much on behalf of all of us for that.

Thank you, Dr. Sanda Moldovan.

Okay. Yes, it's my pleasure. What's the Spina Mata Convention on Mercury?

Sure. Well, mercury is such an important and horrible toxin. It is a reproductive toxin under Proposition 65 for you Californians to know. And it is the most volatile the most vaporous of the heavy metals, meaning that it's, you know, we breathe it much more than we breathe other heavy metals because it gets right in the air. It's the only one liquid at room temperature. It is so pervasive and it is so widespread. In fact, they did a study 20 years ago and realized that mercury was in the Arctic and the local people, the indigenous peoples of the Arctic, were not taking it there. It just was migrating. In the air, in the ice, in the water, and it just moves. So you can't get rid of it in your country if the next country is still using it. So they thought a treaty is needed. The United States was the one that pushed to have such a treaty, to our credit, and was the first to ratify it when it got done. So in 2010, when negotiations began, and I decided at that point, having running a US NGO, Dr. Sanda Moldovanovan, Consumers for Dental Choice, that we needed build a coalition. And so I created the World Alliance for Mercury-Free Dentistry rather audaciously, if not ambitiously, because there was no one in it. I called it World Alliance, but we built it. We built it. We've got 6 regional vice presidents now, vice president for Asia, vice president for Africa, for Europe, for Latin America, for Arab states, for island states. We've got a ban in Europe. All these things are moving, but the treaty has been the big force. And we had to get amalgam into the treaty. Of course, the American Dental Association tried to say it shouldn't be in the treaty. This is our business, not yours. Well, they're wrong. They've been wrong all along. They've been wrong since they started as a mercury user and mercury fillings creator. But anyway, we did get it in the treaty. And over the years, 2013, when it was signed, we've been tightening it and tightening it to get more attention and moving the world toward, but not yet there, Mercury-free dentistry.

So, so my question is, they noticed that the mercury was migrating from United States waters into the Arctic waters? Is that what happened? Yes.

And from China. China was a big industrial user. China mines it. In fact, it's still being mined. Not much anymore. But mining is the worst thing because you don't want to get it out of the— you don't want to get it out of the earth and put it together, then how are you ever going to get rid of it? It's a natural element, but it's so diffuse, it's not a problem in nature. It's a problem when mankind puts it into a mineral, and it's used in industry. It's used in dental fillings, our topic today. It was used in thermometers until medicine realized this is a pretty bad idea. Industry, a lot less use. Its major use now is in illegal gold mining in low-income countries. Mercury is useful. It's useful. It's liquid. It's useful in separating the gold, but it poisons the whole community. So a few people get rich and the rest of them get mercury toxic in these communities. So we've gotta cut off the mercury going to the gold fields. And unfortunately, one of the ones shipping the mercury to the gold fields is some unscrupulous dentists. So, because they say this is for dental use, but it's not.

Oh, wow. So you served as a state attorney general, you authored 2 books, and how did you shift from that into working with amalgam and mercury?

Yeah, thank you for asking. In the 1990s, and it highlighted out there in your state in Sacramento, well, we can get to that, but I was in a law firm that did a lot of holistic health. And so people came to this firm, Jim Turner was the senior partner, Swankin and Turner, And they came to him and said— dentists came and said, we're mercury-free! We don't use amalgam. I say, okay, wait, I'm shocked that there's mercury in fillings. Of course you can't believe that it's mercury, that they're calling it silver, that these people in white coats that you trust with your health was not such an end. You had on nice white coat there, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova Moldovanova. Well, we can trust you as a mercury-free dentist, holistic dentist, but some of them not so much anyway. But the dental boards were were tyrannical. They policed speech. They said to the dentist, "Don't, you cannot talk about, against amalgam." California's dental board was notorious about that. So we made that our big state. We went out there and had a fight with the California Dental Board and said, "You cannot stop dentists from talking to their patients about this. There's free speech in America." Well, the dental board persisted. We had some, we started an organization out there. The dentist that I represented who had his license taken Dr. And the late Dr. Andrew Landerman of Sevastopol, the license taken for being mercury-free, for being so outspoken, got his license back because of our legal work. And here's the exciting thing. He got back in business and we shut down the dental board. The legislature was persuaded in 2001 to shut down the entire dental board because they simply were not following law. They weren't— they were harassing mercury-free dentists and it was time to start over. So they started over. Governor Davis appointed an entirely new board, including a mercury-free dentist, including a some real good consumer advocates. And so they started over and they did what they were supposed to do earlier and write a fact sheet. And that's still a fact sheet that's supposed to be given. It's not been updated for years. It's not very timely now, but it was good then. Has to be given to the new patient and put in the file that they gave it to them in California. So we also had a Proposition 65 case out there. So we really started our movement by, by taking on the Dental Board of California. So the California dentists who were so inclined in those days it was a minority. We started 3% of the dentists, 3% of the dentists were mercury-free and the ADA, American Dental Association, owned patents on amalgam. We had to shift everything. Now most dentists are mercury-free, certainly most suburban dentists, inner city not quite as much, and government programs not very good, but there's been a major shift as consumers wake up, they're insistent, who wants mercury in their mouth? The hygienists don't like it. The consumers, the dental assistants don't like it. Nobody really likes it except the dentists that want to just drill, fill, and bill. And that number's declined. And now we've got to, you know, either get them to either, you know, feel the heat or say, or see the light, feel the heat, or get out of dentistry.

Yeah, amazing. What a big win against the California Dental Board.

Yeah, it was exciting. Really was. Yeah, yeah.

Very exciting. So let's talk a little bit, you mentioned Proposition 65. I think a lot of people are dismissing this because we saw Proposition 65 even on a bottle of balsamic vinegar over at the grocery store.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so is mercury part of this Proposition 65?

Yes, it is. But you're right, it's used in so many disclosures that it's, that it's had trouble getting through to people. But mercury is specifically listed as a reproductive toxin, Proposition 65. The California Dental Board did have this information on their fact sheet, still does, but it, but it's not so strong. But what changed in 2018 was the US Food and Drug Administration stepped up and said, stop. Well, started the hearings, then in 2020 stepped up and said amalgam should not be given to children, should not be given to women, women who are pregnant, breastfeeding, or planning a pregnancy, even planning a pregnancy, should not be given to people with neurological or kidney conditions or metal hypersensitivity. You add all those groups up, you're talking a fourth, a third of the population, one would think. And, and that should have finished it. But the American Dental Association dug in, didn't tell their members, basically ignored it. So dentists are still using this despite the warnings of the US Food and Drug Administration to stop using it for children and so on. So Medi-Cal is a scandal because Medi-Cal continues to use mercury fillings, as far as we know, and has not cut it off, even though that should have been the signal to stop. So we have, in fact, made progress in Oakland with the consumer agency. I can talk about that. We've had a big county breakthrough, but we have to start somewhere. And that's a pretty big county, Alameda County. So we've got some attention there that I can tell you about, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova.

Yeah, I would love to hear more about that.

Well, the— sure, it's the Alameda County Consumer Affairs Commission. And they are the, the, you know, the consumer group for Oakland, Alameda County. That's the 8th biggest county, one of the big 8 counties and one of the big 8 cities of California. And so they have taken a stand to say that they want to have a mercury-free county. That's not official position, but they've asked for it and they've asked for Medi-Cal to stop. So we're hoping from that Medi-Cal to stop using. So we're hoping with one of the big counties stepping up, maybe we can start going back to Sacramento. We wanna build that kind of coalition in your state and doing that. I will, I don't know when we're taping this, this is July 14th, maybe we're all live, but someday it'll be taped. But on July 15th, that's tomorrow here, but past tense if it's later, we are filing a petition to the Florida Medicaid Department, Medicaid in other states, it's called Medi-Cal out there, and Medicaid to end amalgam in Florida Medicaid. So we're filing that petition and we are building a coalition in Florida. We need to find some state who will stop that. We have prototype states, Rhode Island, Florida, and the initiative in California to try to stop that. We're also working at the national, at the federal level on the federal programs. The big problem's federal programs. Consumer choice is winning, but if you're a private in the armed forces or a seaman, You can't tell the lieutenant or the ensign what to do. If you're a prisoner, you don't have rights. If you're a Native American on the reservation, you've never had any rights. If you are a Medicaid, it's so hard to find a dentist. It's hard to have choice. So the groups, the powerless people, Native Americans, prisoners, Medicaid, enlisted women and men, they are still getting mercury. They don't have a choice. And we've got to change these bureaucracies and get rid of amalgam for everybody.

100%. What can we do as consumers, you know, as dentists to support this movement?

Well, you certainly don't want mercury fillings for your family. Silver fillings is an outright deception. Your listeners know that, but some people still don't. And you wanna be the advocate with your dentist and just ask your dentist, do you use amalgam on anybody? Many of them are all mercury-free. It's no problem, but some of them may not use it on you, use it on somebody else. Don't go to that dentist. Try to persuade them. Say, "This is a bad idea. Don't do it." "Well, I gotta do it." "Okay, well then goodbye." I mean, you really need to use your purchasing power with your dentist to say, "This has got to be mercury-free." So I think that is something we can do. If you want to join our list, go on, you can go right on our website, Toxic Teeth, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova Moldovanova, up on the upper right in red. You can sign up. Just click that, whatever that is in the upper right, to join us. And so I don't have the word in front of me, but you can join us. And we'd love to have your help in California if you're a Californian. If you're elsewhere around the nation, that's fine too, because we're trying to build a whole initiative now to end amalgam in government programs, Medicaid, prisons, Indian health, military veterans, the people in the bureaucracies who are stuck getting the fillings that they probably don't want. And if they knew their mercury, they definitely wouldn't want.

Absolutely. It's toxicteeth.org. Everyone who's listening, we're actually going to put that link down in the show notes. I highly—

please do. Okay.

And, you know, I actually suffered myself, right? I had 16 large mercury fillings in my mouth that made me super sick.

16?

16. So I didn't know. I didn't know I was getting headaches. I didn't know You know, I was, I was at a young age of 14, um, and then I had them all removed unsafely and I got sicker. So because I didn't know any better at the time, after I went to dental school, I said to my friend, oh, you should remove these, they don't look good, they're metal, just replace them with something else. So that was the biggest mistake without looking into like a safe process to, to remove these mercury fillings. So unfortunately, this is a topic that, you know, I suffered through.

So, well, I thank you for turning lemons into lemonade because you stepped up. If you were getting, if you got, were a victim, which you were, 14 years old, nobody should put that mercury in. 16, realize there's as much mercury as a thermometer. So you had, you had, that's half a gram, half a gram, not 500,000 micrograms. I mean, it's huge. And you had half a gram times 16, 8 grams of mercury. If you can imagine that in your mouth carrying around, it was just too big burden for anyone, but particularly an adolescent whose brain is still developing. You know, it's a disaster. I'm so glad you went to dental school and are changing the system now as a doctor. Thank you.

Yes. And, you know, we had Dr. Kennedy on the show as well, and he was talking. I know he wants to help out so much. He's a big activist also right now.

So, yes, he is.

Yeah, absolutely. And now in the dental office, there's still a lot of dentists that are actually removing mercury with, you know, and we know that EPA only allows a certain amount in the atmosphere. And when we're cutting into mercury, there's a lot of vapor of that mercury getting absorbed. Now, what can we say here for the dentist listening and even hygienists in order to protect themselves here? Because, you know, is there a way to measure this gas or like what can we do to to improve this?

Yeah, it's certainly the hygienists are right there when they're cleaning, the mercury's coming right off. It's a dangerous profession with somebody that has amalgam and it's in our mouths. It's in the mouths of millions and millions of us that we're trying to stop it from going in further. Removal definitely is a very important decision. You have to protect yourself. You shouldn't— don't just let it like happen to you. Don't let anybody take it out for any reason. You've really got to have very focused public health, you know, get the vapors captured rather than going back into your body. So that's certainly a problem. In terms of the dental workers, it's so hard to say to somebody, don't work in those kind of offices because people need jobs. I recognize that. But for dentists still using amalgam, I just want the hygienists, the dental assistants, the secretaries, the junior dentists to know it's an incredibly dangerous work environment. We've measured it. We've measured it. It's not surprising. It's so vaporous. So really, I would hope the— if they're possible, I mean, there's so many mercury-free dentists now. Get on, you know, get on the phone, get on the internet and go work for somebody who's mercury-free. Now they're still taking amalgam out if they're mercury-free. So you still have the exposure. It's just you don't— you have less exposure and you're paying attention. I can tell you the dentist, Dr. Yokoyama, who was on the dental board for years, he's in LA County. Dr. Yokoyama and I appeared together before the California OSHA, the Occupational Safety Health Administration, and he illustrated how he removed amalgam. And he had his assistant there, and she, by the start of the procedure, he was— of course, he didn't remove it, but he showed what he'd do. She looked like an astronaut. That is, he dresses so protectively for staff. They are fully covered. As if they're going in outer space. And that's the way he operates for him. And he couldn't do it for himself because he's speaking, but his assistant is sitting there putting on one thing out of COVID and full outfit and everything, all protection. And then, of course, leaving behind the clothing that is exposed and not taking it home. So that's the way he does it when he removes. And then the board asked him, well, what do you do when you put in amalgam? Dr. Yokoyama said correctly, I don't put it in. So, you know, I don't have that issue. I don't. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's important they don't put it in, but when they remove it, the hygienist— but see, dentists, most dentists don't do that because they don't— they'd scare you and they should scare you. They should scare you a lot. That's part of— that's the dental board said, don't scare people. What do you mean, don't scare people? It's your job to scare people as a doctor if it's appropriate. So the dentists don't want to do it and get people scared and get people thinking about the mercury, but they really should have people tremendously protected head to toe and breathing as well. And the dentists who use amalgam definitely don't do it. And that's one reason dentists have the highest suicide rate in America. They're mercury toxic themselves.

Yeah, sadly, that's the case. But in our office too, we actually have to dress up that way and put the gas mask on basically so we don't get in toxic—

Oh, you do it fantastic. Just like that. I'm not surprised, Dr. Sanda Moldovan, because because you're the holistic dentist and I'm so glad you have this show. I'm so glad you are educating across the country, maybe to Canada too. As far as you reach, I hope you keep reaching. That's fantastic.

Yeah, I hope so. I know we have also maybe some global listeners, so I'm super excited.

Wonderful. Wonderful. Yes. You're hearing from them good. Well, Europe has banned it and, you know, across Europe and I believe your heritage is Romanian and is that right? Yes. That's wonderful. We had a Romanian dentist in Brussels with us. To help win when we had the last hearing of all. And she came up and I said, you know, we do give my, we give your airfare. She says, give me nothing. I don't want nothing. I'm here. She didn't use double negative. I don't want anything. And she testified so eloquently and in front of this board. And we did, that was in 2020. And we got, it still took some more years because you had to have, you have, it's a complicated system at the EU, as you may know, European Union is commission, parliament and council. Well, this was commission, then we had to get parliament, then had to get council, but we did get the ban and the ban is in effect and 27 nations and it's a message to the world that we can do this and other countries around the world have now done it and 60-some have banned it for children, but not the US.

So what do you think? Do you think the US is actually one day going to ban mercury?

Yes, I do. I think so, because I think it's gonna fall enough into disuse, somebody's gonna act. And the guy that could do it right now is Robert Kennedy. And I wrote an op-ed in the guest column in Florida's largest newspaper, the Tampa Bay Times, how he could do it with what I call the stroke of a pen. His uncle Jack, President Kennedy, used the term stroke of a pen, that he could end segregation in federal housing with the stroke of a pen, executive order. And I said, Secretary Kennedy, stroke of a pen by not buying mercury, just saying to the Indian Health, to all the Health and Human Services agencies, it's a bigger department than any agency in the world. It's the largest, most hundreds of billions of dollars that they spend. And Medicaid, Medicaid, so on and so on, Indian Health. And he could just ban it. He says, you can't buy mercury. So he could do it. He wouldn't have to write a rule. He wouldn't have to get a law. He just says, nobody can purchase any mercury for dentistry. And we, I urged him to do that. We've since returned, we've given him, given him a letter of 150 dental professionals asking him to stop use. So we are trying to get his attention. He's got a full plate, but this would be something definitely he would, he can't be, it would take a whole action of FDA and so on, but he could ban it in government programs and that's the biggest offender. So yes, we, I'm hoping we get that during his time in office. And if we don't, you know, we'll go on to plan B, but we are paralleling. You don't in America do things only at the federal level. That's why we have these pilot states of California, Florida, and Rhode Island.

Yeah. So what's the reason you went to Florida first? Is it because they also banned fluoride in the recent months?

Yes, yes. Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, who was a professor out there at UCLA before he went east to run this program, he is the Surgeon General of Florida. And read his books. I've met him. I've talked to him twice by Zoom, but also met him in Orlando. He is pretty much a forerunner. He see— and when we met, he said he's against mercury in dentistry. And we just thought there was more hope there because of that Surgeon General in that state than I found in other states. So that's why we jumped there first.

Is there any way we can put into law actually this protection for the dentist and the dentist staff in terms of removing mercury to actually have it removed safely, or that's not something that's possible?

Yeah, Cal/OSHA could do it. Cal/OSHA could do it. We were unable to get action. You know, it's just, it's a challenge to change agencies because the lobbying is so intense from the other side. And when you have a new idea, it's just, it didn't work. So Cal/OSHA, and I tried New Jersey OSHA, just did not want to move on it at the time. There's a little period, looked like they might at the hearing. It looked like there was a lot of attention, but by the next meeting, there's a lot of lobbying had taken place and Cal/OSHA wouldn't touch it, but maybe they could, they could. We could petition them, Dr. Sanda Moldovan, and ask them to stop the use of amalgam in dental offices because it's so dangerous in the workplace and use something else. They've done that in other industries. They said, stop using this stuff. So they could stand up and do it if they can, if they want to stand up to the, to the, uh, well-heeled California Dental Association.

I mean, the study's already there in terms of the mercury being released in the form of vapor. Do you think like more studies are needed, or, uh, why is it do more?

No, studies aren't needed. No, we know, we know, we— replacements are here. Uh, this is mercury. Uh, the world is banning it. Uh, the Minamata Convention is going to take another look at it in November and decide whether to adopt a phase-out date. They already adopted a goal of ending amalgam in 2030. Studies just would waste time. It's just time for action. It's time for dentists to stop using it. It's time for Medi-Cal to stop paying for it. OSHA could step up, US OSHA, Cal/OSHA, New Jersey OSHA, the agencies. And, you know, we're pushing, we're a small group, but we're trying to find interested players and Dr. Ladipo being an example in Florida. Who would wanna step up. And if you've got any ideas off camera or on, Dr. Sanda, you certainly have a great network and people look to you for advice and happy to relaunch some things out on your coast or somewhere else.

Okay. Yes. I know some people that are higher up involved in the CDA, California Dental Association, and see what we can do in terms of a bigger movement. I'll keep you posted.

Okay, please do. Please do. Okay.

Um, what kind of a group are you? Do you work by yourself? Do you have other attorneys that help you?

Um, well, I, it's a 2, 2 attorney office, but it's a small office. And the reason is because, um, we, we, uh, raise money for, uh, nonprofit groups around the world. Um, as you, as you see, we are, we are a worldwide, uh, organization. We have partner NGOs on the ground, in fact, in 23 African countries. We have a partner that is a nonprofit environmental group there in the country, usually in the capital city of the country, 23 covering two-thirds of the population. We have a great program in Brazil and Canada, Jamaica for the Caribbean in this hemisphere. Our leader for Latin America is in Montevideo, Uruguay. So we want to get our money in the field. Same here, same here. I'm headed to Providence in 2 weeks, Rhode Island, to work with our local team there. That's a hygienist and a dental assistant, a pair that's really trying to work the change there. So we do feel it's more effective rather than trying to have a bigger office here to get the money around the world and in the US. To small groups who are very active and talented and idealistic. I do travel a lot. I've been, I think, 12 times to Africa working with— I've been in 5 times to Nigeria alone. I've been to about 15 countries there. I've been to Asia many times, 6 times to Bangladesh, which is our headquarters city for Asia. Brussels, I don't know how many times because we had to go there to win the European Union battle. So I do get to travel. It's kind of nice that I get to travel. My wife sometimes doesn't spend any of our money on it. She will separately buy a ticket. And therefore, when I'm done with my work, she doesn't need to do any of the work. She shouldn't. She's a lawyer. She's got a lot to do, but she will. So it's been work. It's worked. It's worked good with her because we then can do a couple of 2, 3 days or somewhere. You know, wherever I am. So that works well. Yeah.

Very nice. I mean, I know a lot of people are listening to this show and they're going to be like, I want to help. How can we help? So definitely go to toxicteeth.org. Do you accept donations there?

Absolutely. You can donate right on the page. I'll get two things. One, also say you can write me directly. You can put on the screen charlie@toxicteeth.org. Charlie, C-H-A-R-L-I-E, @toxicteeth.org. In August, Dr. Joseph Mercola will do a matching funds week, which he's done before. And that is a focus. That's August 17th to 23rd. But money can be received before or after that, pretty much any time in August. And Dr. Mercola does match our donations. And that's a— that's our big time to raise money. So this would be the time, this, you know, as August dawns here, to donate. But you can just go to our website and donate. We do We get a lot of small donations, and I assure you it adds up. We're quite efficient. Two of us here running a worldwide program. And just, we work very well with people who are just, who also committed their lives to advocacy on behalf of the public, environmental, consumer, or medical. We have a medical advisor. These people, by the way, have other work. I don't have other work, and my assistant doesn't, but they have, they run a nonprofit group, and they, how about give us this amount of your time? To work on that. And because nobody's really full-time, you can't— we can't really afford that. But we do— they do work on this issue. And then we'll work collectively at the Minamata Convention on Mercury, and we'll have a team there from quite a few countries there to push their governments to move and to adopt a rule that, led by the African region— the Africa region has pushed the hardest to end amalgam. And so they will be pushing the world to adopt a full phase out of amalgam on a date certain.

Yeah, this is definitely needed. I do want to talk about one thing. It's about these dental amalgam separators, right? For the longest time, dentists were just dumping everything in the water because it wasn't a requirement to actually capture the amalgam that's going down the drain. And for people listening or wondering what we're talking about, basically when we cut out a filling of somebody's mouth, it actually goes down the drain. and we're supposed to capture it, um, and basically dispose of it safely annually. Uh, were you involved in, in that aspect of, uh, tracking?

Yes, yes. Uh, I, I— in fact, the first, uh, county in the— to do that in California, city and county of San Francisco, and I testified there. Not surprisingly, it was the first. I mean, they're pretty environmentally conscious. Um, mercury is— mercury never goes away. Even today, mercury is coming from what the 49ers did 170 years years ago with the mercury to get their gold out. They used mercury just like it's done in low-income areas around the world still. And that mercury used in the Sutter's Mill in that area is still coming down the Sacramento River into the San Francisco Bay even today. So, you know, they know that's, they're conscious of what needs to be done. So San Francisco mandated separators, all the Bay Area counties did. And then I don't, we never got a statewide rule, but we did get the federal. So EPA since about 2017, since 2017 mandates separators, but it's very hard to police. It's thousands and thousands of users. And Dennis, if they buy them, they're supposed to use them, but there's no way to police if they use them. So if they would turn them off rather than serve them each month, there's nothing you can do. Maybe somebody will check in, but they'll just turn it on that day. So it really is a Toronto example was it, the amount of mercury going into the wastewater was cut in half the first year as soon as it was mandated. But in a few years it was back up because it just, people just, the dentists weren't paying attention, but weren't using them. I mean, a lot of dentists do, but a lot of them don't. And they're just, the ADA and the CDA are just so cavalier about the mercury. It's just all, it's just only the money. And they don't care. And they'd rather people don't think about it. And it's just money. They're just, it's a pretty, pretty miserable pair, the CDA and the ADA. But I wanna stress, Dr. Sanda, that even if every dentist had their separators on and caught every bit of mercury that they, that was removed or spilled in the, otherwise not used in the office, and rather than put it down the drain, it would not solve the problem because, because most of the mercury walks out of the office. And I don't think California is going to put separators on 10 million toilets. So it's just not going to happen. It's just going to go into the environment. It's going to go through our bodies. It goes through breathing at the end, whether we're cremated or buried, either way, it's going into the environment. And so we simply can't, it's just, it's not like a thermometer where if you don't break it, it's not going to that. I mean, they do break, but if you don't break it, it's not going into the environment. This is going in the environment because it's here and it's vaporous. We're breathing it, just breathing, just anytime we're breathing it. And it goes, of course, to our brains too. That's why children, well, children from mercury fillings or babies in the womb can die and children can get permanent brain damage from the mercury directly the amalgam or the mercury in the fish, the dental mercury in the fish that methylates. So it's so dangerous and dentistry doesn't wanna stop, so we've gotta stop them. And, but the pollution is, the separators are a good thing 'cause they capture stuff, but they're not the substitute to say, let's use them and then separators will solve the problem. You solve the problem of pollution by non-use, by stopping the use. And today, The alternatives, as everyone knows, I mean, I get on an airplane and tell, if I tell people what they do, they always say they don't do that anymore. Because for those of us, you and me and others that fly in airplanes regularly, our dentists are people in the more upper middle class, middle class, they don't use amalgam. So these people think nobody uses it, but it's still being used in the, in the power with the powerless and low income. So we can do it. Separators was a good intermediate step, but we need to step up. We need to get Kennedy to act. We need to get Cal/OSHA to act. We need to get consumers to just insist that their dentist stop using it. And maybe if the dentist didn't have any business, then any patients, then I'll bet they change then.

Yeah, exactly. Everyone, this is the time to act. This is the time to take action. If you care about this planet, if you care about your health, you care about your children's health, it is time to ban mercury in United States, just like Europe did it. And thank you for you. Thank you for the work you do, Mr. Brown. It's really incredible. I am— hats off to you. I know it's difficult work. You're always on the road and you just have this vision for a better future, a healthier, cleaner planet. And thank you so much.

Thank you, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova Moldovanova, for getting a message out on why we need holistic dentistry and why that is the only route that dentistry should be taking. Today, pro-health, not pro-dentist, pro-health and pro-consumer and pro-child. So thank you. God bless you.

God bless you. And August, was it— what are the dates again? 17, 23? The dates for—

Yes, 17, 23 August. Yes, that's the Free Dentistry Week. Yes.

We're going to air this podcast right before then so we can give people an opportunity.

Wonderful. Wonderful. Please do. Please do. Do you want me to send you anything more or send it to your assistant? I can do that.

Yes, that'd be great.

That's great.

All right. Well, thank you everyone for joining us.

See you later.

Thank you, Dr. Sanda Moldovan, for being here. Thank you so much for joining me this week. Please make sure you check out the show notes for any links mentioned in the show. If you like today's show, please invite your friends to listen as well. That would mean a lot to me. Do you have a question you'd like me to answer? Message me on Instagram @drsandamoldovanova. This is Dr. Sanda Moldovanova, and remember, your mouth is the gateway to your health, so take care of it in the most natural and best way possible.