The Journey of Xylitol: From Science to Health

Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Sanda Moldovan, periodontist and nutritionist. Welcome to the Holistic Dentistry Podcast, the show that gives you the tips and tools to detoxify your mouth for a healthier body as we explore together the root cause of disease. Remember, you're not healthy until your mouth is healthy, so take care of it in the most natural way. Welcome to today's show on the Holistic Dentistry Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Sanda Moldovanovan, and I'm super excited today to talk about one of my favorite products. The one product that actually I feel kept me healthy throughout the whole, you know, COVID years. Knock on wood, I haven't gotten sick and I traveled a lot. I used it, as you know, Clear is also being sold at our retail store, and I'm super excited to talk today with Nathan Jones, who is the founder and president of Clear, who is really the leading manufacturer of xylitol-based products in North America. So welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, and, uh, hopefully it's a pleasure for both of us and we learn something.

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to learn a little bit about you and your background and how you ended up in the holistic health I ended up here because of my dad.

He threatened to beat the— no, I'm kidding. I got here because I used to do underwater welding construction out on the oil rigs, about as far from the health space as you could possibly get, and except for the pharmaceutical space, that's a little bit further away. But my dad was a physician, and in 1998, he started using a nasal spray with Xylitol. On children to prevent them from getting ear infections. And the times he had really good results with it, and he had started doing it because he had gone on PubMed. PubMed came online in, in early 1998, and he went on there and he was querying preventing ear infections. And what kept coming up was a bunch of dental studies where they were looking at xylitol and how it prevented tooth decay and in the footnote of a lot of these studies, it was like, yeah, the kids that use the xylitol gum, not only did they not get tooth decay, they had 42% fewer respiratory infections. And so then, then there was a paper that was published in October or November, late 1998, in the Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy, where they actually showed that what was happening is the xylitol binds up on these receptor sites and blocks the ability of these bacteria to adhere or viruses. I mean, everybody, I mean, it's been COVID, so everybody understands that spike protein. Well, these spike proteins are covered with sugars and it's actually the sugars that are, that are causing the attachment. And so if you use sugars to block that attachment, your, your proteins, your bacteria, your viruses don't adhere.

Yeah, it makes total sense. So then, uh, what happened is your dad started using the spray and where did the idea come to actually make it into a business? Was it back in 1998 or later on?

I went up and visited my dad. I wanna say Christmas, springtime of 1999. You know, he goes, well, you know, someone should take this and put it on the market. I mean, I was at his practice at his clinic out in West Texas and somebody come in and somebody came into the office and they had driven from Arkansas. Again, this is, you know, before the internet was really a big thing, but they had heard about it from one of their family members in Texas. Who had been treated and, you know, was stopped having all these respiratory and these ear infections. And so they had, a grandma had taken two of her sick grandkids, put 'em in the car, drove 8 hours, walked into my dad's clinic and said, hey, I wanna buy a couple bottles of this stuff for my kids, my grandkids. Bought a couple bottles of this stuff and turned around and drove home. And I'm like, dad, if someone's willing to spend 16 hours in a car with 2 sick kids. You got, you got to have something here. And so, you know, he really didn't want to stop being a doctor and, and start a business again. I mean, he was the time he was 63, 64. I was 28, 29. And so I just said, well, you know, I, I'd be happy to go and do it. And, and I'd been saving up money to start a diving company here in Utah. I wanted, you know, I wanted to have my own diving company. but I figured that this was a much better, you know, investment.

Absolutely. Yeah. And to help. So since then, are you just putting pure xylitol in the products or are you mixing it with something else? I noticed some of your products also have some grapeseed oil.

None of our products actually have grapeseed oil. They have grapefruit seed extract.

That's what it was. Grapefruit seed extract.

Yes. Yes. And interesting, what we found out is that that is, is really a, a very, it's a very good antiviral and we use it as a preservative in our nasal spray. And we started using it because a chain of stores called Wild Oats, they're, they've since been bought up by Whole Foods, but they actually came to us in, I wanna say 2002, 2003, sometime around in there and said, We'd like to carry your nasal spray in our store, but we don't carry any products with benzalkonium chloride, which is a preservative that everybody uses in nasal sprays. And so we went and looked for another preservative, and what we came up with was grapefruit seed extract, and we started using it. And, and the interesting part about that is, fast forward to 2020 and COVID, in, in early 2020, like February, March, we actually had a doctor, a pulmonologist that was treating patients call us and tell us that we should get our product tested to figure out what it was because he was seeing good results with using our nasal spray with COVID patients. And so we sent our nasal spray and, you know, we had a, we're like, we're gonna test it, let's test the, you know, throw every, the kitchen sink at it. But what they came back with was that something in the nasal spray was, was annihilating this, this virus. And after a couple more studies, thought it, we originally thought it was the xylitol, but after a couple of other more studies, what we realized was it was the grapefruit seed extract at a 0.2% is as effective at annihilating this virus as a 70% solution of alcohol.

Pretty amazing. Actually, one of the studies that I remember watching the news, I think it was 2020 or 2021, right around there. And all of a sudden on the news, it was, oh, you know, clear has a study out that, you know, the xylitol spray actually kills 99.9% of the COVID virus. And I already was using your spray because one of the things I'm noticing is like it thins the mucus inside the airway so I could breathe better, especially, you know, in LA where I live, the air is not exactly the cleanest. So it seems to help to open up the airway. So I started using it regularly. So let's Talk a little bit about that study. What, what was it about the xylitol that actually helps to inhibit that virus?

Well, so the studies that we did were all virucidal studies, and then there was a paper that came out of the University of Tennessee where they looked at xylitol and iota-carrageenan, which iota-carrageenan is a polysaccharide that comes out of, out of seaweed. It's a seaweed extract. And what they found was that both of those products block the ability of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to adhere. The xylitol at any level that they tested it, and I think they tested it at 5% and 2.5%, blocked the, the adhesion of the virus to an undetectable level.

Amazing.

And the, the Iodicaragene, and you had to use higher amounts of it in order to get an effective where it was blocking as much. And we shared that study with our government and they said, no, you can't use this study. In fact, don't talk about it. And they sent us a warning letter in July of 2020. But even, even more absurd than, than that is that prior to 2020, the CDC had guidance on its webpage for how to treat a respiratory coronavirus infection, and it was just by using saline, saltwater irrigation, to reduce the viral load, flush it out of the nose, get it out, leave it. And, and, you know, and the interesting part is, is that In May of 2020, there was a study that came out of Vanderbilt where they used, they had a bunch of patients, 60 patients, all of them over 65. They all tested positive. They all, you know, had symptoms. They were all sick and they just used salt water. And in under a week, they were all healthy again. And all of the companies in our industry, the NeilMed, the Navage, all of these companies received warning letters not to share that data. So, and we continued to share it because it was published and we knew that the, what the law is, is the The rules and the law is if it's, you have peer-reviewed published data, you can share it. It's in the public domain. And so, uh, you know, the government, they came after us for that.

Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that because something like this, that's non-habit forming, right? That, that it's always important for any kind of, uh, let's say therapeutic agent, because I don't want to call it a medication, but any therapeutic agent, we want to make sure it's non-habit forming, that it doesn't have side effects if we're going to use it. And that's one, the amazing thing about, you know, the xylitol spray and the, and the Clear is that we can have our patients use it. It's non-habit-forming. And it doesn't really have any side effects. So the fact that you were actually told that you can't use that study is pretty mind-boggling to me.

Well, we've been told that we can't use any studies. I mean, it was the absurdity of it. And I would rather talk about the studies and the positive stuff than the absurdities of our, of our government. But we did a, we did a further study that they requested. And they said, no, you can't use one that's done with, you know, this— the pharmaceutical standard isn't good enough for a hygiene product. So you have to go and do one where you're looking at human airway tissue and how it— and whether or not it blocks viruses from adhering. And we actually used xylitol, sorbitol, erythritol. You know, sorbitol is a 6-carbon sugar alcohol, xylitol is 5, erythritol is 4. And we looked at a wide variety of viruses And what we found was pretty interesting. It's that different sugars actually blocked adhesion of different viruses. The interesting part, all of them blocked SARS-CoV-2. Okay.

That's pretty incredible.

But other ones would block RSV better. Other ones would block H1N1 better, you know, things like that. And when we shared that with the government, they said, you can share, you can talk about that it blocks RSV, you can talk about that it blocks H1N1, but you cannot talk about it blocking SARS-CoV-2. And at that point you just say, okay, this is not honest, it's not legit, it's— this is an agenda. It's not, you know, it's not reasonable. And so we just said, you know what, if they want to sue us, let them sue us and we'll fight them in court.

Good. I'm glad you're standing up for it because, you know, we have to get the information out, especially to the public who was already so scared. And if they can use a simple solution and inexpensive compared to some of the other medications that are out there, you know, for COVID.

And the thing is, is we applied to the FDA to do a study in June, the last week of June of 2020. In the first week of August, they turned us down and said, you can't do a drug action study with a cosmetic on a pathogen of this nature. There was a group out of the UK that went to India, and they did a study using a xylitol nasal spray. And they used it— it was— they used it 3 times a day, and they used a 5% solution. We use a 10%, but they used it 3 times a day in hospital workers that were treating patients with COVID And washing their nose every 8 hours, just in a, you know, spray up their nose, reduced transmission by 62%. More than what the saline did.

Wow.

And we already know from a number of studies that saline has an effect at reducing it all by itself.

And I think, you know, something about nasal hygiene, it's not really being talked about enough, if at all, especially when you started this company. It wasn't really something that's even part of hygiene. Most people just don't do that. So why is that important?

Well, I mean, if you want my opinion, I don't think people talk about oral hygiene enough.

Just me. I agree with you 100%.

And that's why even the dental profession as a group— and I'm saying this as a group, I know that there's a lot of dentists that aren't on board— but they've really hung their hat on fluoride. And fluoride doesn't even address the bacterial infection. That causes tooth decay. It's like, you know, it's like, well, you know, it's rotting your teeth, but let's just protect your teeth as opposed to treating the bacterial and the strep mutans bacterial infection in your mouth. And I don't know if you know this, but it was 100 years ago this year in 1924 that they acknowledged and they realized that tooth decay is caused by the strep mutans bacteria. Hmm.

100 years. Wow.

100 years later, we still know that it's a bacterial infection and we still refuse to treat it as such.

I agree with you. I think the big missing piece, just in medicine, also oral health, is the microbiome. We're not addressing the microbiome. And xylitol is one of those things that, you know, I love from a microbiome perspective, you know, how it helps to regulate. And we talked about xylitol affecting viruses, but what does it do to the microbiome when it comes to the nasal cavity?

Well, we have a couple of studies that are coming out. We did one in 2007, and this was done in the Czech Republic. And we did this because the FTC said you have to have studies to back up what your claim is. And so we actually went and had a study done with a couple hundred children that had chronic ear infections, and we showed that using xylitol sprayed up their nose a couple of times a day reduced the incidence of ear infections by upwards of 70%. We also showed that it shifted the nasal microbiome away from the pathogens that were causing that. We submitted to have that study published in one of the pediatric journals, and the editor told us there's no way that this is real. There's no way that you can spray sugar water up your nose and it's going to cause this. And so they wouldn't publish it.

Wow, that's, that's really crazy. I mean, obviously we understand why that is, you know, as a holistic practitioner, I know that everything's connected. I mean, the nose communicates with the ears And the same, you know, with the oral health for us, especially when I do oral probiotics with xylitol, I know the xylitol in itself helps to regulate the bacteria and we're seeing less incidence of neighboring infections as well. Yeah.

Yeah. So xylitol does work as a prebiotic and it feeds commensals that are good for us. We are, we are not aware of, we're not going to say that it doesn't, but to this day We are unaware of any pathogens that can feed off of xylitol.

Yes, I'm not aware either of that. And with, with the xylitol spray, the Clear, have you seen any adverse reactions or side effects in the use of it?

No.

Yeah, I—

In 25 years, we haven't seen any major side effects. I mean, really the only side effects you have Are we— we'll have some people that'll say it stings. Well, if you— if it stings, chances are going to be pretty high, probably 99%, you have open sores in your nose. And what happens when you throw salt in an open wound? It stings. Yeah, but keep using it and it's going to heal and, and you'll clean that up. And we've had some people that have stopped using it because it's— they, they complain that it makes them more congested. And what we've seen over the years, and I'll explain this, is when my dad first started using it, he had patients that said exactly the same thing. But within a day or two, they would have a cleansing moment and lots of mucus, lots of junk would come out. And, and what that is, is the same way that we have plaque in our mouth, you know, that biofilm in our mouth, We have biofilm all over our bodies, and xylitol is very good at disrupting and breaking apart these biofilms. And that's what was happening. People who were using it obviously had respiratory issues. That's why they started using it. And they would start using it, and when that biofilm starts to swell up and break apart, they're complaining that they're more congested. If they ever call us, we just say, power through it for a day or two. And it should all clean out.

Yeah.

And if they're willing to do that, then they usually, they see that resolved and they don't have the issues anymore.

Yeah. I love that you're actually putting the effort into doing research because that's such a key importance into, you know, validating a product, especially for the medical community. And you have actually funded a number of research studies in journals like Clinical Virology, Antimicrobial Chemotherapy. What's What's like one of the studies that like stood out the most for you?

One of the studies that I think stood out the most for me is one that we don't take any credit for, and we helped fund it, but it was a study that was actually looking at autism. And you can go look it up, Mark Cannon. I don't know if you know who he is. He's a pediatric dentist. He does a lot of research, but he's the lead author on it. But they took a bunch of children who were nonverbal autistic, and they gave them food with xylitol and erythritol in it. And I'm trying to remember the exact number, but it was a couple of hundred. And I think it was well over half of them within 2 or 3 months were verbal and starting to communicate.

That's incredible. I did not know about this.

The incredible part of it is that's a study that is amazing and has really broad microbiome, you know, data in it. And you never heard about it.

Right.

And that was published.

Yeah.

I want to say that was published in the last 12 months.

That's incredible because we know, we know already that autism has a big problem with microbiome, a lot of autistic kids. So the fact that just by eating the xylitol and erythritol, which it's not hard to do because it's sweet, that it changes the microbiome to such big and drastic measures where it changes their behavior. That's pretty incredible.

Well, and, and the thing is, is that most, not all, but most people with autism, they really crave sugars. They really crave carbohydrates. So, and I think, I mean, that's a great study. I think one of the other studies, you know, the, the, the two where they used nasal sprays to and prevented COVID, I think those ones are incredible studies. That no one talks about except us. One of the other ones that came out, I want to say 2 years ago, I don't know if you're familiar with the Baylor study where they look— so they, so they've done studies where they have shown that if pregnant mothers chew xylitol gum, their kids don't get tooth decay.

Wow.

Okay, that's— and it sounds like voodoo witch magic, but really it's simple. We get rid of the bacteria in our mouth that cause tooth decay, we don't have it to give to our children. Pretty simple. So the very first person to do that study was Eva Soderling. She did it in Finland. The second person to do it was Yuki Nakai. She duplicated that in Japan. There was another group that did it in Brazil. And Baylor, they went and they started, I wanna say 10 years ago, we provided the product for 'em, but they went over to Malawi, a very poor country, and they started giving a piece of xylitol gum, and I'm trying to remember how many, I want to say, I wanted to say it was 3 pieces of xylitol gum a day to these pregnant mothers. And what they found out and what they noticed fairly quickly was that the women that were chewing the xylitol gum were having 25% fewer miscarriages. Incredible.

So a question about the xylitol gum, does it have to be a certain percentage of xylitol?

Well, the, the most effective is going to be gum that's 100% xylitol because anyway, when you're looking at how it works, especially in the mouth, or what you're doing, and the reason why you wanna use true xylitol gum is the saliva, it'll stimulate saliva flow. That saliva washes out all the other carbohydrates, the 6-carbon carbohydrates that strep mutans lives on and thrives on and makes acid from. It washes that out and it leaves the 6-carbon sugar molecules in your mouth. And over time the strep mutans bacteria starve to death. They can't metabolize the, the 5-carbon sugars. They'll eat it, they'll ingest it into the cell, but they can't metabolize it. And so they'll just keep eating it and it ends up bloating it and gumming up their metabolic pathways and, and they end up dying. It doesn't actively kill 'em or it would be considered an antibiotic. It starves 'em to death.

That's why, interesting. And some bacteria you were mentioning actually use xylitol, but not, strep mutants. Does it matter like how many times a day somebody chews xylitol gum, or once a day sufficient?

Well, what you really want to do is use it 3 or 4 times a day. And if you're talking to your patients, tell them 4 or 5 times, because if you tell them 4 or 5 times, you know, they might get to 2 or 3. You know how that is. And but the easier thing to do is find a toothpaste or a mouthwash that has xylitol in it and have them switch out their oral care products for products with xylitol. You know, we obviously have the Spry product line and toothpaste, mouthwash, chewing gum, mints, you know, stuff like that. And so hopefully you're, you know, you're using Spry, but if you can't find ours, go find one of those other, you know, substandard. Now there's actually a lot of other good products out there today that have xylitol in them and that are a very high xylitol content. But you do want to make sure that they're 100% xylitol because if you're using something that has sorbitol in it, sorbitol actually feeds the strep bacteria. They don't make as much acid with it as they do with sucrose and glucose, but they continue to live and thrive, which means the next time you have a donut or something, they're going to be right back there making that acid. If you're using 100% xylitol, you're actually shifting that microbiome away from the strep mutans a lot quicker than if you're using, you know, one with xylitol and sorbitol.

That's interesting because sorbitol, I want to say it's probably in over 90% of the oral care products. Whenever I read something— It is.

It is. And it feeds the bacteria that cause tooth decay.

So what is next for Clear? I know you've been around now for over 20 years. Where do you see the xylitol products going? In what direction?

Well, I actually think that there is going to be an explosion of research research with looking at the upper airway and, and also cancer. You know, there's a couple of studies that have come out over the last 10 years looking at oral cancer where they showed that xylitol stops the progression of oral cancer. There's, there's a number of studies that are coming out and we've, and we've helped to fund some of them that where they, they look at different cancer types and tissues and the xylitol actually stops the tumors from growing in a lot of them. Not all of them, but a lot of them. But it goes back to, it goes back to the whole argument, is cancer genetic? Is it gene-driven or is it meta, you know, metabolic issue? And, you know, I read, what's the name of that book, Ravenous, where it talks about Otto Warburg in the 19s. He was actually doing research studies showing how fructose caused a lot of these cancers. And he got a Nobel Prize for some of his research, and then it was all swept under the rug, and they said, nah, nah, it's all gene-driven, and it's all mutation-driven instead of metabolically driven.

Right. That's pretty exciting about oral cancer, especially when oral cancer is still pretty prevalent because of the turnover of the oral cells. And if we can get products like with xylitol that actually can maybe prevent cancer and also be beneficial in the treatment, that's It's incredible. I want to also bring up one of the studies that was done on xylitol, you know, with the ingestion of xylitol and how, you know, it actually causes all kinds of problems and cardiovascular issues. And I want to get your take on that because it was all over the news. And I actually have patients that are like, oh my God, maybe I shouldn't be using any oral xylitol products.

I think those were very poorly done studies. If that was the case, if that was true, people would be dropping left and right from heart attacks, and they're not. And if you go back and you look at the study, a year ago almost to the date, that very same group came out with a paper that said erythritol did pretty much exactly the same thing. And every year it seems like somebody publishes something saying that something that's not sugar that's sweet is bad for you, and the media picks it up. But let me ask you a question. What do you think is worse for me? Erythritol or xylitol or sugar? Right.

Because then we have sugar studies to show that they can, they cause cardiovascular issues.

They cause cardiovascular issues. They cause tooth decay. They cause obesity. They cause, I mean, there's a whole slew of health issues that come from sugar.

I read them and I couldn't believe, I mean, they have cardiovascularly compromised patients anyway in that study and they were giving them like 30 grams of xylitol a day to ingest.

Not 30 grams a day. If you look at it, it was 30 grams all at once.

Oh, all at once. See, that's the thing.

It's like, yeah, they mix it up with water and they drink it.

Yeah. Like, like who's going to actually do that? So, yeah, exactly. There's a lot of flaws with that study. And I even, but then I said, you know, don't pay attention. This is not something that you should be scared of or stop chewing xylitol gum. It's, it's totally unfounded. Yeah, very, very interesting conversation, Nate. Um, any last words that you want to leave our listeners with?

I would like to see public health really, you know, focus on oral and nasal hygiene. I'm trying to think of how to get them to do it, but I think that the Surgeon General should be all over, and the CDC, they should be all over out there talking about oral hygiene, nasal hygiene, you know, I mean, don't— I shouldn't have opened the door about public health because I think that the golden century of public health was really from about 1880 to 1980, 1870 to 1980-ish. And you saw huge increases in the standard of living, quality of life, and all of these things. And the pharmaceutical industry and the medical establishment likes to take credit for it, But really what drove that was increase, you know, the increase in people brushing their teeth, good oral hygiene because we had hygienists that went into the schools and they were teaching kids how to brush their teeth. And it came from having water, clean water piped to our house and the sewage and the trash taken away and treated. It had nothing, really nothing, very little to do with pharmaceuticals. But yet they're the ones that are taking all the credit for it. And I think that our public health agencies need to go back and refocus on oral hygiene, nasal hygiene, the gateway hygiene, making sure we're in a state of balance of eubiosis. Dysbiosis is illness. Eubiosis is balanced. And making sure that we're learning more about nutrition and getting sugars out of our food. You know, all of that stuff. But I think that public health should be banned from talking pharmaceutical products.

Yes, I agree with you. And I feel also there's such an opportunity when we're talking about medical schools and what the medical students are learning to really learn about oral health and nasal hygiene health. I don't think that's even talked about.

Well, it's probably not even talked about. Nutrition isn't talked about. Exercise isn't talked about. I mean, I think that they should have a division, and I think that, that doctors should understand that they do not work in healthcare, they work in sick care. And hygienists and, and, you know, other people— plumbers, not, not plumbers, but, you know, they all work in healthcare. The nutritionists, the exercise physiologists, that's keeping us healthy. And once we're sick, we go to a doctor.

Yeah. Yes, that's a big problem because, you know, we really should be focusing more on prevention But the problem is there's no money in prevention.

That's why the government is in charge of public health. The government is supposed to take over those industries like the military where there's not supposed to be a profit motive.

Yeah. Yeah. So we have to put our brains together and really help to make a dent in public health and make some changes in the policies for sure.

Well, I'm hoping that, uh, you know, I'm hearing a lot of things with this upcoming administration. Again, with any politician, I'll wait and hold my— and reserve my, uh, my judgment for a couple of years and see if it, uh, you know, see if they deliver on their, on their campaign promises.

Hope so, Nate. I'm with you on that one. I hope Robert Kennedy is going to be able to really make some positive changes.

Well, I hear the FDA is already thinking about, you know, saying that before the inauguration they're going to ban food dyes from food. I'm excited for that.

That's super exciting.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

That was in the news. Did you not see that? That was in the news.

I'm glad. I'm glad that they're banning food dyes. Yeah, absolutely. It's going to decrease the ADD, ADHD, um, you know, numbers of kids that we have today.

I, I haven't— I have a niece that, that her mom had to take her off all of that stuff because she was so hyperactive and crazy from it. She took her off the red dyes and she was fine.

Yeah, but how many people don't know that? That's the thing. How many moms don't even know that food dyes can cause that?

A lot.

A lot. Yeah, exactly. Well, I thank you so much for bringing light to prevention, you know, dental hygiene, oral prevention. And it's super exciting with all the research you've been sponsoring in order to get this information out. And it's my mission here also on the podcast to bring this out to as many people as possible because, you know, xylitol is really one of these amazing products that if used on a regular basis, it's really monitoring and contributing to one's overall health.

Yes.

Awesome.

And if anybody ever has any questions about xylitol, have them send us an email. If they, if they can't go on our webpage and find an answer to their question, shoot us an email. If no one at the company can, can get an answer to it, We will actually reach out to dentists and physicians and researchers, and we will find an answer to it.

Fantastic. And do you have resources on your webpage at xlear.com?

Yeah, we have a bunch of resources. You can find out where the products are sold. They're sold in most of your retail establishments— CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens, Target, Walmart. I mean, all those places. Your health food stores carry them. And the one that I, that I tell people the most, because I like people to be informed. We have a, a very big, I mean, not big, but you know, in cyberspace, nothing's big. But we have a very detailed list of studies where you can go in and there's a simple synopsis of the study. You can read that, click on it, and it'll take you right to the journal where it's published and you can read the actual study.

Fantastic. Yeah. Thank you.

Anything we say, we will have a study on our webpage that will back that up.

Fantastic. I know how much hard work that is. So, so thank you for doing that. You're really helping, you know, with all the work you're doing, other natural products to make their way into like mainstream stores. So thank you for contributing to the holistic movement.

Well, thank you.

Okay, everyone. I hope you enjoyed today's show. Please comment. You can also go to my Instagram page and ask any questions, or if you have any other ideas of what other topics you'd like to hear, please let me know. And with that, stay healthy. Thank you so much for joining me this week. Please make sure you check out the show notes for any links mentioned in the show. If you like today's show, please invite your friends to listen as well. That would mean a lot to me. Do you have a question you'd like me to answer? Message me on Instagram at Dr. Sanda Moldovanova. This is Dr. Sanda Moldovanova, and remember, your mouth is the gateway to your health, so take care of it in the most natural and best way possible.