How This Surgeon Built A Global Photography Business With Dr. Mark Ayzenberg

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Hi, docs. Welcome to the Entre MD Podcast where it's all about helping amazing physicians just like you. Embrace entrepreneurship so you can have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on your terms. I'm your host, Dr. Unna. Well, hello. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Entre MD podcast. I am excited. I know I always say that, but I am excited. I have a very special guest for you, Dr. Mark Eisenberg. And he's a fellowship trained orthopedic surgeon out of New Jersey. But the backstory is I found his work, what he does as a business, on social media and it's so impressive and so mind blowing that I immediately sent out a message. I was like, oh my gosh, can I get you on my podcast? You know, your story has to be so inspiring. Doctors have to hear it. And he graciously said yes. So Today I have Dr. Mark Eisenberg on. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

My pleasure. This is my pleasure. Okay, so I did a kind of mini introduction, but please introduce yourself to the audience, tell them who you are.

Sure. I'm Mark Eisenberg. I grew up in northeast Philadelphia, was actually born in Russia, went to school in the area and med school a little bit higher north, and spent a year training in la and then came back to the Philly area and working out of South Jersey. Orthopedic sports surgeon, lots of side Gigs, side hobbies, kind of things. My parents are both doctors of music, which is probably what inspired some of the art kind of background in my life. And I try to keep myself grounded with as many interests outside of medicine as I can so that I'm fully in it when I am at the job. Wow.

Both your parents are doctors in music, right?

And if you're a child that went.

Into medicine, well, I'm sure they're not upset about that. But, you know, for those of you who are listening on the podcast, you know, he came on and he has, like, guitars behind him. I'm like, wait a minute, you play the guitar, too? I'm like, oh, my goodness, what don't you do? But now, the business that caught my eye was your photography. So tell us how. How that started.

In my second year of residency, we go on what's called the Trail of Tears, and it's. It's about five months of nights in the span of a year. And I was looking for a way to do something during the day when I was on nights just to not, you know, be bored at home. And my dad asked me to sell his camera, so I. On ebay. So I'm like, you know, let me use it for a little bit and just get myself out of the house. Took some photos around the city, printed them out for myself because my walls were barren, and I put them on Craigslist just for the hell of it. And next thing you know, people are trying to buy it. And then the big thing that happened to me is that I was working on my photos in the lobby of my building because my Internet was out. And one of the board members came by, and they saw me working on it. They're like, hey, we're trying to redo the building. Is this your photo? Would you be interested in, you know, helping decorate the building? And so next thing I know, every floor and the lobby has my photos in it, because, of course, I said yes, even though I wasn't really monetizing at that time. And that's kind of how it started. You know, I started doing shows. I did a lot of First Fridays, you know, free shows, sidewalk shows. I'd be doing shows a couple days before that, or in training, exams, anything I can just to. It was fun, you know, it's something completely separate from medicine, and it's a different kind of satisfaction when you. When you're selling something that's good versus something that people need. You know, like, medical care is never something people choose to get. It's something they have to get versus this is. It's humbling in some ways when someone, you know, puts your work in their homes because they want it, right? Not because they need it.

So when you're talking about every floor, you're talking about every floor in the hospital where you worked.

No, no, this was in the lobby of my apartment building.

Right. Like, that's not even better. Wow.

Yeah. The hospital actually where I trained eventually did purchase work for an entire floor hallway of one of the main floors.

So you got the camera that you're supposed to sell, by the way. So you owe your dad. Have you paid him back?

I ended up selling it for him. I ended up upgrading many times since then because I didn't have any formal training at the time. You know, I just. It was YouTube and go. I've never really had a big camera before. I just use iPhone like everyone else. So to anyone else out there trying to think about doing photography, just get started.

Okay, so you're totally speaking my language. Just start. So you're working nights. What am I gonna do on nights? I'm gonna take pictures. And what made you put it on Craigslist? I mean. Cause you took the pictures.

You know, the first. I put three photos up on my walls, and I'm like, this looks pretty cool. Maybe someone would want it. Let me see if anyone likes this. They were completely unedited, straight from the camera. And I've sold things on Craigslist since, you know, high school. Not Craigslist, Craigslist or ebay. To try to have a couple bucks in my pocket here and there to afford life, you know, as a struggling med student, college student. And so I did it just to see. And I was surprised, you know, when it sold, I didn't even put a price on it. I didn't have my name on anything at the time when I was selling things. None of the photos in that building, which is still up there, have my name on it, which was my mistake at the time. But I was like, well, I'm. I'm in medicine. I'm not a. An artist at the time. Right?

Yeah.

So I thought, almost awkward putting my name on that. But, you know, it's. It's weird the way things work, I guess, how things turn out.

Wow. Okay. All right. I love this now. So at one point, because you mentioned in the beginning you're doing this for free and all that kind of stuff, at what point did you start monetizing it? Like, when do you start treating it like a business as opposed to something that, you know, like a hobby or something.

Well, you know, even before that moment in the lobby of my building when they asked about it, I was already kind of just doing some shows, but with really, like, low quality, cheap prints because I couldn't afford anything. But that purchase, you know, from my building was a sizable purchase that ended up being a fair percentage of my residency salary just for. For one sale. And after that, I started looking into more, and I didn't have enough time to go, like, as much door to door to, like, hotels, things like that. But as I started doing shows, some places I had connections. For example, I went to Penn for undergrad and they had an alumni art show, and I did it there. And the next thing you know, that Hilton saw it and they wanted to do a show there. And the next thing you know, the Sheraton of University City bought a bunch of like seven, eight foot lobby pieces and a bunch on different parts of the floor. And that was a big deal. So I ended up knowing I wanted to move to LA for a year for my fellowship training. And I had no money. And so I was moonlighting. Two jobs as a resident, plus residency. And then I did the photography, and eventually photography made more than my residency and my moonlighting jobs combined.

No. Yes. That is so good.

Yeah. People are like, why are you even doing this? But medicine's obviously, you know, a passion.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that brings another question. How were people finding it? Because it doesn't seem like people are finding you. It seems like you were putting yourself out there. So what were you doing to get these shows and get all these spots and all these deals?

Yeah. So I'm glad you asked that because that's. You know, when I posted to the group on Facebook, a lot of the messages were like, well, how can I do this? What should I do? You know, for me, it was initially just doing these shows that were free.

Okay.

You know, like, First Fridays in Philadelphia are, you know, once a month. And I just wanted to get out there for fun. I did go door to door to a couple galleries when I had time saying, hey, can you guys do this? And most galleries are fine art only, not photography. So it was hard. But the first Friday things were easy. And, you know, you meet various people. And as I met more people and I met, made some sales, you know, prices slowly went up. As I started making money from it, I started producing all my work on metal, which is what I do now. Metal, it's like museum quality. You could splash coffee and wipe it right off. It's ready to hang. And so the quality is much better. And my photography quality got much better because I got better gear. I started getting better at it, I started reading about it. And so next thing that really happened is as I had more and I printed on larger and larger scales, it's eye catching. And so I'd meet people at these free shows that would either buy it or they say, hey, I know this person that's interested in that. It wasn't ever really like a let me call these places and get myself in. I did have some of that, but a lot of it was just exposure through just anywhere I could get in. And it was more of a. Just to keep myself grounded and doing something outside of medicine when I was busy. And then it just went from there.

So I have a theory, and that theory is that entrepreneurship is one of the cures, I think the cure for me for burnout and dissatisfaction with, you know, there's a lot of dissatisfaction, medicine and all of that stuff. But I think, like, being able to explore and monetize something outside of medicine is a cure for burnout. What do you think, like, how. How has this impacted the quality of life, your perception of medicine with what you do at your job and all of that stuff?

No, I think. I think that's a very valid point. I've been lucky in that I never really felt on a. At least not on a regular basis. There are always moments for everyone, but burned out by what I do. There were, of course, in residency, you have rough times and things like that, and all your friends are out and doing things while you're sitting there studying and preparing for cases and all that. So. But those were all kind of transient moments. Maybe holidays were like, ah, it's kind of weird, you know, I remember one time just walking through, through Memorial Day weekend in Spruce Street, harbor park here in Philadelphia, and seeing like thousands of people just hanging out. And I went to meet some friends and I'm like, I could only hang out for one hour, then I gotta go. And walking back, I'm like, all these people are having normal lives and here I am working like 24 7. But, you know, it's all towards a goal. And if you really love what you do, which I do, I never really got burned out by it. I think having outside interests, not necessarily then having to monetize them because the money is just a side thing, right? The outside interests are key. And I've always had outside interests, things I like to do outside of work. And I feel like people in Medicine often get bogged down in just the job and they run out of a home life, they run out of hobbies, things they used to love, they don't do anymore. And even I'm, you know, I do the same thing, for example, like the guitars and stuff you see behind me, you know, so there are times where they go untouched for a month or two or three and then I'm like, ah, I gotta go back into that. And then sometimes the photography goes untouched for a month or two or three. I have like a thousand photos plus that I still have to work on before I even put them on the website for people to see. So everyone gets busy, but you have to have something to keep yourself grounded.

So I like that you brought this up in this way. You did mention that you had the residency you were doing at the time, the two moonlighting jobs and the photography. So what are some of the things you do to kind of manage your time, if you will, so that you can get all of them done? Because you kind of, I mean, you signed up for the job so you have to get it done right? You have to go to la, so you have to figure out the photography. So what did you do?

You know, it's funny you say that because I get asked that question a lot too. And I don't find that I'm a very efficient time management kind of person. Especially growing up, it wasn't a particularly good trait that I had. And I still feel like there are times when I sit for five hours, I don't know where the time went. It's just like a complete waste of time on a regular basis. So, you know, I don't know. I don't have a good answer. There are times where, you know, I just, I focus on it, I do it and then I separate myself and I have to focus on something else and I do it. But I don't sit there and have a schedule. And I say, well, today I'm going to do this. And I've actually tried, I've tried to write down, okay, I'm going to come home at work between 5 and 7 on a clinic day and I'm going to write, okay, at 7 o' clock I'm going to the gym. At, you know, 8:30, I'm going to have some dinner. At 9, I'm going to work on my photos for an hour. I've tried writing that down. I haven't even done it once. I've written that down more than once, but not once have I actually done it. I Still have it on my to do list as let's try to organize my life a little bit more. So I think I do still struggle with that, but somehow it ends up working out.

All right, well, so far so good. So, you know, we'll keep that going. All right, so what are some of the things that you think have made it possible for you to be successful with what you've done with the photography?

You know, I think so. Everyone sees the world in a different kind of light. And I think when I. When I started the photography, initially, it was just walking around, taking pictures, and then looking at it secondarily on the computer. I'm like, oh, well, this is a cool part of this building or a cool part of this landscape. And it's transitioned to a. Well, now I've traveled more for photography as well. For example, before it was just Philadelphia, and it's transitioned to a. Let me look around and just take this sunset or sunrise and spend this hour and a half here and looking at every detail that I could see in front of me and then trying to bring that into a photograph and trying to show the awesomeness of the view or the awesomeness of the scene all through one photograph. And the way I do that is I try to highlight the parts that I remember that are interesting. So a lot of my photographs will have a lot of detail. They'll have a lot of color. And sometimes if you take a picture of the sun, the rest of the background's all black. If you take a picture of the background, the sun's all whited out. I'll take multiple photos, and I'll kind of blend those exposures sometimes to get as much detail as I can out of it.

Nice.

And try to bring what you see with it kind of with a naked eye, and maybe even, you know, bring out those parts that are not even as obvious when you look at it, but things that people maybe don't look at. When they just look at a, you know, sunset over the city, they just drive by, they look. They're like, that's a nice sunset. But they don't take time to appreciate the details. And I didn't either until I started the photography.

Wow.

I think that's what got me there.

Yeah. So you help people appreciate what they look at, but they can't see.

Yeah, you know, that's a nice way of putting it. I often get from Philly natives, at least. Wow. You actually make Philly look good. That's a statement. I get all the time it shows, and I'm like, you know what, it actually, it's the way it is. It's just that different times of the day and different parts of the year, they look better or worse.

I love it. That is so good.

Yeah.

So. So what big dreams do you have for. For this? Because, you know, I mean, when you started, do you think you're going to be featured in Hilton and Sheraton, all these places, hotels. No, you know what I mean? And you know, so I'm sure now your picture of, you know, what is possible or where you can take this to is different. What does that look like for you?

You know, ever since I started doing things like getting it into lobbies of buildings, I've been getting steady word of mouth and steady emails. Hey, I saw your stuff for the Hilton. In fact, at that Facebook group, one of my old professors in medical school commented and she literally said, she's like, hey, I just did an article about you where I mentioned you in an article because I was at this hotel and I took a selfie because I saw your photo and your work.

So nice.

I know. And at the time I didn't really do photography. Right. And I even remember back in college I was like, I always wish I had a nice Philadelphia skyline photograph. It was too expensive. So anyway, when it became like the lobbies and things like that, it was nice. It started having a steady flow. But it's actually changed a lot in the last month. Ever since I posted in those Facebook group, it exploded. In a short period of time, I'd have a steady flow and pretty good side gig. But in those three weeks from the Facebook group, I mean, it's because there's no shows in Covid time, right?

Yeah.

In 2020, I kind of put on a side burner. I started my attending job in 2019, September. And so 2020 hit. I'm like, well, okay, I'm not going to focus on photography right now at all. And then 2021, and I'm like planning to get engaged. I'm like, you know what, it'll be nice to have a little money extra if I could spend a little bit more, get a little bit nicer of a ring.

And we're not mad at you for that at all.

Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I just posted in this group partially as a, hey, you know, everyone's probably burned out from COVID See, you know, this is something you could do, think of other hobbies. I didn't expect it to actually turn into a big sales kind of thing. And actually I didn't post my website or anything initially. And then it turned into that. Now what I realized is I need to find a guru in social media, because if I could replicate that on a routine basis, I mean, it would be a very. And there are photographers out there that are world renowned, that are, you know, they do high quality work, and they make many, many times what the most wealthy surgeons and doctors make. Right. And for me, it's not about, like, I would never leave orthopedics because I love it so much, but it would be nice to have a side gig like that. But more than that, it would be nice to, you know, like, I sold work internationally, I sold work around the country. And every time that I get a random person from a random place, it's humbling, and it's nice. And if I could replicate that and have that happen on a routine basis, it's a separate sense of satisfaction that you get from taking care of a patient. They're both very nice kind of things to have. And it's. It's just. It'd be nice to. To replicate that kind of situation on a routine basis. That's what I'm working on now.

I love it. Okay. Now, coming into the year, though, coming into 2021, where you're thinking, oh, I'm really gonna blow this up, or were you thinking more of the same, like, 2020, where you're like, yeah, there are no shows, you know, there's Covid. So we're not. We're not. It's not gonna be a big deal in 2021. What. What were you thinking?

I was hoping that there would be a couple shows. So, you know, now that I'm attending, it'll be harder to do as many shows. But there are two shows a year at the University of Pennsylvania. There's an alumni weekend, and there's a homecoming weekend, and both of those, they have alumni arts just on, like, the college green. It's not like a planned thing, really, where people go planning to buy art. And every time that happens, I'd make a really good. In eight hours, I'd make way more than I make as an orthopedic surgeon, you know, a week or two.

I love that.

So I'm like, well, those two shows are what I want to do, and they were canceled last year, and they're canceled for at least this summer. And so I was kind of thinking, well, I guess this isn't going anywhere for now. And social media has always been kind of on my to do list. But, for example, I don't use my Instagram at all. I hired someone temporarily to just post and they were saying these very cheesy things that weren't really me. And so I stopped. I mean, I barely have anyone on there. I have Facebook, like a small Facebook following, but I mean, even overnight, really, on that one Facebook group, it went mini viral essentially. Right. It's not really viral, but mini viral to me. And I'm like, if I could replicate that, that would be a big deal. So I didn't expect that at all. I didn't come into 21, 21 thinking I would do that. I went into 2021 thinking, how do I build my practice more? And it's still my priority at this point. But, you know, if I could do this on the side, if I could find someone to help me with social media, I mean, it would be nice to exploded a bit.

That is so good. So, yeah, so plans can change.

Yeah.

So, so what did you do then? Because you now, all of a sudden, everybody's like, oh, my goodness. And that's what made me reach out. I was like, this is unreal. Like, it is so good. Right.

Thank you.

Now that you have all this volume, people saying, I want, I want, I want. How are you managing that on the fulfillment side of things?

You know, I'm lucky. I have. I have a developer who drop ships internationally for me.

Okay.

So I spend a lot of time with the people that are interested because I make every. Every piece is made to order. It's not like you could just go online and click and order it. Partially because I want to limit how many of each photo I sell, and I don't have a strict number for that. But if it starts getting close to 100, I'll probably slow that or at least stop it eventually. And some might be more limited, depending on the photos. Something that's a little less popular, I might not produce as much. So I don't want it to just become like an IKEA photograph. People spend a lot of money for it. And I've had some people say, well, listen, I could go to Ikea and get a photo similar to this for like 200 bucks. And I'm like, well, you know, it's different. You know, there are a million IKEA photos out there, and it's not producing the same quality work. And it's just apples to oranges, right? So, you know, it's just one of those things where you kind of have to manage that. And I do have a dropshipper, but I spend the time with it people that contact me to simulate them on the wall. So if you have a big wall in your house and you're like, I'm not sure what this piece would look like, I asked them to send me a photo of the wall. I simulate the photo on the wall, and then it ends up being fairly ballpark what they get. And I have it. I always tell people I have a 100% satisfaction exchange guarantee, meaning if you get it for any reason you don't like it, you wish you got a bigger one, a smaller one, a different photo, send it back and take that credit towards any other piece. And I've not once had anyone do that.

Love it. All right, people, five stars all the way.

Yeah, there we go.

All the way. 100%. So that what that means is that even though you weren't anticipating the volume, you already had the structure, the machinery to handle it. You are prepared.

Yeah. You know, it's nice for those of you that watch Shark Tank, that's often an issue for people that have sudden explosions in their sales. I don't have that problem because the drop shipper has, you know, they have fulfillment areas around the world, actually, so they'll produce. You know, for example, if I sell something in England, you know, it's not going to cost a million dollars to ship it there because they have a center there that develops them on metal for me. And they ship from England to England. There's several areas around the country. It's not every country, but it's. It's doable.

I love it. Okay, now, so there are many doctors who have what are considered hobbies, right? Whether that is music, whether they're producing short films, you know, whether they're knitting, whether they're playing around with a, you know, some shea butter they made for their daughter. But they love doing these things. And it's lovely for skin photography like you. What would you say to that doc who's like, I've always wanted to do this bigger and bigger may not necessarily, you know, bigger doesn't start from revenue. Right. Your driver. My driver is not revenue. My driver is impact. You know, your driver is like, I'd love to put more of these things out there. And revenue is just like the thank you note for what we do. Right. So. But they want to do it bigger. They want to make it into a business. They want to make it a thing. What would you tell them?

You know, that's a little bit of a harder question for me because I didn't start off directly trying to make it A business. It was more of a. It's fun to be out of medicine for something that you really enjoy doing. But as soon as I saw that there was business potential, the hustle in me wanted to turn that into a business. Right. But more than that, getting the exposure and having people enjoy it makes you happy, too. So if you have something that you love to do, I would say just like you said earlier, just start somewhere, reach out to places. It's hard to do when you're a doctor and you're trying to balance work life and family life. And at the time when this all started, I was a single resident with time on my hands in the future. Who knows if someone's trying to start photography business and they have four kids and like, all these things to worry about, that's a lot, a little bit harder to do. I'm lucky that I have the infrastructure in place now. But, you know, if it's something that makes you happy, even if it means cutting down on your schedule, that's something you can do. You got to stay grounded if you're happy with what you do. I mean, again, I'm lucky that I'm really happy with what I do. I would never want to cut down on that at this stage of my life. Then just take the weekends, take after work whenever you have some time. It's something that should make you happy to spend extra time on, not something that feels like a chore. So. And admittedly, when that exploded on Facebook, because I spent all this time simulating and I was planning an engagement and things like that, I felt like I was sleeping three hours a night for that, those couple of weeks, just because I wanted to set all that together. So that got a little bit almost overwhelming to a bit of a degree there. But I'm setting up things to try to make that easier if that happens.

Continuously, because I was just about to say that I know you, like, even though you may have slept three hours a night, you had also developed some kind of framework. So the next time this happens, you will sleep more than three hours a night.

Right. You know, because before it would be, I had a very easy kind of accounting system because I'd make a sale, you know, here and there, you know, once a week, maybe once in two weeks, here and there. And, you know, they're not cheap, especially if you get the metal work. They get kind of pricey sometimes. So it's not like the sales roll in every hour. So I say, okay, I made a sale here. I'm going to write this down this weekend I'm going to go in, I'm going to put in my cost, I'm going to put in everything into my little accounting sheet on Excel. Well, I started off that way the first couple of days and next thing you know, I'm like, oh man, I got to go through all my text messages, all my emails, make sure I don't miss a thing. Make sure it's all like, you know, in the books and legit. And well, now I'm like, as it comes, I'm going to put in same day I have an easier kind of accounting system. So. Because the last thing I want to do is have an issue with that.

Yeah, no, we don't. No. Okay, so I'm going to have you tell people where they can find you in a second. But I want to make sure nobody missed this because there are so many juicy lessons from what you said and I just want to do a rundown because they're good. So the first one is, you know, just start. And it sounds so cliche, but the truth of the matter is it's just so powerful. Like you didn't start out knowing that you were going to have pieces in the Sheraton and do international. International. You didn't know that. There's no way you could have known that. But you now know that because you started and if you didn't start, you wouldn't know. The other thing you talked about was it's kind of like experimenting, like, wow, this looks nice on my wall. I'm just going to put it on Craigslist. We'll see what happens. And I like to say it's an experiment. It's all an experiment. Like just put it out there. What's the worst that can happen? And your worst case scenario looks really good. You know, the third thing you talked about a lot, which is putting yourself out there and I think as doctors is really not our thing. Right. But you know, you talked about the events that you did, some door, well, door to door being, going to galleries and stuff like that. And if you're going to thrive in putting your thing out there or making it a business, then putting yourself out there is something that you're going to need to do. You talked about starting from where you are but getting better. Right. So you started with your dad's camera, but you got new cameras. You started from what you got on Google and YouTube and then you got some more training that. And you know, so don't be afraid to start from where you are. But then the plan should be to, to get better, like three years later, we shouldn't look at your business and it's the same. And then you talked about, well, you alluded to being prepared. That's number five, you know, so it would have been possible for you to have the video go, your stuff go mini viral and it wouldn't have mattered too much to your business because you weren't able to capture it. Right? The reason why it's like, oh, this is so cool is because you could capture it. You know, you had the drop shipper, you had all this stuff, otherwise you'll be like, my post went viral. So what, what did it, did you have a bigger impact? Did your pieces get in more places? Did you make more money? No. Then what was the point? So as we work on our businesses, we do have to bear in mind that your viral moment may be tomorrow, it may be next week, it may be next month, if it comes. Have you put things in place to maximize it. You did a great job with that. That's so good. And then number six was, you know, you talked about just start and get exposure. Like it's together. I like the way you said it, like, just start and get the exposure. Right? When I asked what advice you would give someone because, you know, when I talk to docs, I'm like, your business is like 50% what you do and 50% marketing. Like, otherwise is the world's best kept secret. Nobody knows. You know, people that would buy, people who would say, yes, just don't know that you're there. And then lastly, you talked about, you know, your three hours of sleep. And I love that you converted it right, because you could have complained about it like, oh, this is so, you know, bad. It's like three hours. But you immediately went like, okay, so I need to change my system so you can have those stressful periods. But in the middle of the stressful period, your question is, what do I need to do so the next time this happens, I'm not in this position? See, you gave us seven juicy things. It was so good.

I want to go back to the just start thing. It's funny. I'm sure a lot of us in medicine remember organic chemistry and wondering sometimes, well, why are we taking this class? The one thing that, the thing that I remember, because I don't remember much of organic chemistry, but I remember at some point the thing that clicked for me to make me do better was just starting somewhere. When you're doing the synthesis, the molecules, things like this. So just start is something not just in business, but it's what I tell my residents, for example, if you have a tough case. And I've had my own tough cases and actually just this week I had a rotator cuff and a 50 some year old guy who has been very chronic, just very scarred in. And you look at it and everyone's like, no, it's not repairable. Just start and get the exposure both literally and metaphorically. And before you know it, you'll get to a point where you could fix it or take care of the problem. So I think just start is kind of a life motto. And be better, as was my residency motto where everyone says, just be better. So those two things I think are things to take with life, medicine and business. That'll help out.

I love it. Okay. This is so good. All right, so spill the beans. Everybody's like, enough people of your talking. Where do we find his photography stuff? What's his website? What's his social media. Tell us all the things.

Well, so the website is where I have most of my work. It's www.phillyphotoart.com. that's Philly, like Philadelphia. P-I L L Y photoart.com I have a Facebook handle. It's just Urbanartscapes photography there. I have an Instagram which is Urbanartscapes, but I don't use that almost at all for now. But that's something that I have to work on and start converting into a real social media account. But social media is definitely a huge weakness of mine. It's something that I think I need to change in the next couple months, especially after seeing what happened with Facebook.

Love it. And we will hold you accountable.

There we go.

Okay, so we're going to post so in the show notes. You're going to. The website's going to be there, the social media handles are going to be there. You guys go follow him. Okay? Go follow him and shout him out. Let him know how the episode was and then we'll hold you accountable because we'll be keeping tabs on your social media stuff and see how you're doing. But this is, this is so, so, so good. Thank you for coming on. And you know, the time of this recording is Saturday, so thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. And do you have any final words before I let you go? Because you, you spilled so much good stuff.

That's funny. Yeah, no, I appreciate the time and this has been actually really fun. I would just tell people that just because you're in medicine and you're. You're really busy with your daily life doesn't mean you can't put aside some time for things that you love. Whether or not you monetize it doesn't matter. I think so many people are burned out. The Facebook group that we talk, physician side gigs, things like that, is a nice way to have something to ground yourself. So when you're feeling that way, make sure you ground yourself. I think I've been lucky in that I haven't been burned out because I have so many other things that I enjoy outside of medicine. And it's easy to get bogged down in one thing. So do what you can.

Love it. All right, people, this is Dr. Mark Eisenberg. Great interview. Make sure you share with another doc in your life because, you know, this was so good, we can't keep it to ourselves. And I will see you on the next episode of the on tremd podcast. Thanks, Dr. Eisenberg, for coming on.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

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