How To Overcome Objections in the ROF

Hey there, and welcome back. I'm Dr. Vince Leone, executive producer and co-host of the Practice Builders Podcast. With my partner in crime, Dr. Kyle Pankinen, we deliver proven strategies to help you grow fast, specialize with confidence, and build profitable staff-run practices. Let's go ahead and dive into today's episode now. Hello, and welcome everybody to the Practice Builders Podcast. My name is Dr. Vince Leone.

And I'm Dr. Kyle Penkman. Welcome back. We are glad to have you listening today. We are excited to keep bringing these episodes to you. And, uh, we have a topic today that I think will resonate with you in the sense that we all do report findings, and, uh, we need to be able to make sure we can, uh, do those in a very proficient manner. Dr. Leone, though, is going to go over the title of our talk. And then we'll dig in.

Yeah, absolutely. So this is how to overcome common objections in the report of findings, and this is specifically geared towards the niches, of course, because that's what we do. We help doctors add and grow high-ticket niches— decompression, neuropathy, knee pain. And decompression is our baby though. In fact, we got a Decompression Summit certification coming up in about 7 days, so countdown to the Summit certification. I'm pretty fired up for that, Doc. How about you?

I'm more fired up this year than I have been in even past years, and I didn't think I could get any more fired up. But no, it's, uh, it's gonna be good. We gotta— we got a sold-out, uh, event. We got great speakers, a great lineup, and, uh, it's gonna be a lot of energy.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Uh, we maxed out that room at 109 doctors and staff, and so this is our biggest summit yet. And, uh, next year we've had a lot of Yeah. You know, once the doors closed and we got, you know, we were maxed out, of course we get all these doctors that wanted to get in last minute and unfortunately they weren't able to, but put it on your calendar for next year. It'll be around this same time, you know, late September in Dallas, Las Colinas specifically, beautiful hotel called the Omni. And it's just, it's a lot of fun. We have a nice wine and hors d'oeuvres meet and greet on Friday evening at the hotel. Then we're training all day Saturday.

Saturday.

Then we have our famous client-only summit dinner. So we have about 30-ish doctors coming to our dinner, reserved a private room at Nuri Steakhouse, have a limo bus. It's going to be a first-class experience. So looking forward to that. And then Sunday morning, we'll be training from 8 to 12, and then we'll wrap things up. And I'll be heading out to the pool and the cabana to rest and relax a little bit with the rest of our team members. So I'm really proud the group that we have putting on this event, Jeff VanderWal and Candy VanderWal at Hill DT, Dr. Tim Burkhardt at Hill, of course, Dr. Kyle Penkinen, and we all— and I'll be speaking as well. And then we also have Brad Gibb, a wealth expert, who will be talking about how to create and sustain wealth so you have a fantastic retirement. So, looking forward to his keynote talk. I think it's going to be fantastic. So if you're not coming this year, put it on the calendar for next year if you are serious about decompression. So let's go ahead and dive into, into today's topic, how to overcome common objections in the report of findings. And let's kick this off with a very, very common one. Let me think about it. Which is probably one of the most frustrating phrases for doctors, especially when, you know, there's someone that has the problem, has the desire, and has the means to invest in their health, but they're just not there yet. So just to kick this off, Dr. Kyle, how would you handle that particular objection?

Yeah, unfortunately, let me think about it, more times than not is, is a no.

100%.

They're not going to go forward.

That's a very— that's a kind way of saying, uh, no, I don't trust you, I don't trust the process, I've had some type of bad experience, something along the way. So that's a very good point right there.

Yeah, so it, you know, in a case like that, you probably gotta flesh out a little bit. Okay, maybe I'll think about it. What specific thing do you need to think about? Is it You don't understand the condition, you don't understand the recommendations, you don't understand the financing, you're gonna be leaving, you're what? Try to at least at a minimum get an answer out of them as to what their catch or their holdup is. Is it a lack of confidence in the protocol that they think it won't work? And then if you can get that out of them, then you have to dig in and address— The more specific. But let me, let me think about is very vague.

Very.

It doesn't really give you the idea of, you know, what their really, their core objection is. And so, and they may or may not give that to you, but I think it warrants a follow-up probing question as to what specific thing do you need to think about. And then if they're willing to open up about that, Then obviously you try to address that to the, the best you can. A lot of these objections that we're gonna raise here, let me think about it, is though sometimes it's a lack of clarity on the day 1. Most day 2 problems are day 1 problems in my experience.

Yeah.

And if you can instill confidence in day 1, it'll minimize some of these objections on day 2. Let me think about it. Other thoughts on that, Dr. Leone?

Yeah, I think those are, those are all great thoughts, and you're absolutely right. It is a soft no. Most people want to avoid confrontation, I think, is what it comes down to. And so what I would encourage doctors to do is to assume the role of leader in the relationship. Uh, in other words, there in any relationship, there's an alpha and a beta. In other words, a leader and a follower. It's not a dominant thing. It's not a negative thing. It just is, you know, that is human nature. And so, you need to assume the role of the alpha. And like Dr. Pankinen says, you need to ask some probing questions. And what I would immediately ask on that front is, oh, absolutely. I mean, this is an important decision. What exactly do you need to think about? Because we've carved out, you know, 45 minutes today out of my schedule and yours. Let me help you. You know, what exactly do you need to go home and think about so I can give you the information to make a well-informed decision? What Dr. Kyle had said about, you know, um, uh, not being sure about things, uh, a confused mind will say no. That's a very, you know, common adage. And so if they are confused about any aspect of what decompression does or what the laser does or what your neuropathy treatment does, like, They're not going to invest in something that they don't understand. So, like Dr. Kyle was saying, like a lot of these problems are day 1 problems. But if you haven't solved it on day 1, one thing you can use is what we call the 4 Horsemen. And these are questions that before you even get to finances, you need to ask. And we structure our report of findings. We have the front half, the transition, and the back half. The transition are 4 questions. So, Question number 1, hey, is this a good fit? Do you understand what we're recommending? And is this something that is what you're looking for to solve your problem? That's the very first question. Because if they, again, don't understand or they don't feel like it's a good fit, they'll let you know. And then you can either address it or that would be a DQ or disqualification. 2 is, do you have the support of your spouse? Right? You need to address that. Ideally, the spouse is there. Again, that's a day 1 problem. If the spouse is not there, you're trying to get the spouse there so that they can make— spouse, or by the way, if it's an older patient, potentially a son or daughter who helps them with their healthcare decisions, right? So you can address that on day 1. They may not have a spouse anymore, right? They may have— they may be a widow. And so, Right fit, spouse, timing. You know, can you make the schedule work? And so some patients will be thinking in their head, I don't know if I can make 3 times a week work. Well, can you make twice a week work? You know, we've stretched out our protocol to twice a week and we still get great results. And then finally, when did you want to address this issue? And so our whole goal with the Four Horsemen is to overcome All objections other than money. And so, because what happens is if you get into the finance portion and have not addressed these other common objections, you're fighting a war on 2 fronts because they're thinking about the money, they think about the spouse, they're thinking about the schedule. And essentially what happens is just basically confusion in their mind because they don't know, you know, which one to focus on. And so then that's what they say. That's when they say— Let me think about it. So, that's the first thing is ask those 4 questions before you talk finances and before you even get into that portion of the ROF.

Big, big points. So, the 4 Horsemen are beautiful. They cover a lot of ground and overcome— they get stuff out of the way that needs to be cleared, hurdles that need to be overcome. The spouse one is a big— that's a common objection too is my spouse, I need to talk to my spouse about it. And the way you overcome that is one, obviously you try to invite, have them have the spouse present. That is obviously one of the ways to overcome that. If they're both there, then they can make decisions together. I also find overcoming a spouse objection also is if you give them a good report to take home to read, always say, hey, I want you to read this in detail. Take 10 minutes and sit down and really go through this, or whatever time it's going to take, but have your spouse read it with you or hand it to them after you're done reading it, whatever, so that you both are on board. So that if that spouse isn't going to be present with them at the report of findings, they at least have had a chance to discuss at home what you're likely recommending for them. In terms of a decompression protocol or a chronic knee or neuropathy, whatever the case might be. But if you have somebody come in and they're all gung-ho about treatment, but they know their spouse at home isn't on board or supportive of that, the odds that they're gonna get to a point where they say yes is pretty minimal. And so that's a big one, is spouse.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, when you schedule the appointment, again, like Dr. Kyle was saying, sometimes these are day 1 problems. When you're scheduling the appointment, you know, very simple question, will your spouse be joining? You know, invite the spouse to day 1. At the end of day 1, if they're not there, hey, will your spouse be joining us for the report of findings? And then explain the importance of that. If they're still not there in the report, then, and they say, well, I need to speak with my spouse, Absolutely. I totally understand that. Just, you know, can I ask you a question? Yes. Do you feel this would is something that would work for you? Is this something that you know that you would want to move forward on? That's the first question. Make sure that oh yeah, yeah, no, I would want yes. I I want to do this. I I see the value of this. I want to get better. Great. Do you think your does your spouse support you? Getting treatment in some manner or another? Yes. Okay, great. Um, why don't we get you started? You can do your first visit today, so you don't need to sign up for the full program. So this is if, if you feel like they're just going to walk out, right? Um, well, why don't we just get you started with one treatment? Then you can see what it's like. You know, you'll get on the decompression table, you get a laser treatment. Um, you know, you're not going to feel massive changes. You may feel a little bit better, but that way you then you have something to go home to discuss with your spouse. You actually had a treatment and, you know, we have a report, we have a webinar, we have all this information that you can bring to him or her. How does that sound? So that would be kind of a fallback that I would use to get some type of action taken. And, and I want to caveat this with, look, we're not trying to hard sell anybody. We're not going to try to force people into care. But keep in mind that as the leader in the relationship, as the doctor in the relationship, your job, in addition to being an excellent clinician, is also to help them go outside their comfort zone because you know the power of the treatment and the life-changing effects that it can have. They don't know that, right? They don't know the miracle stories that you've seen in your clinic, the lives that change, the Um, you know, the kids now that they can play with, the grandkids, all— they don't know all those stories. And so sometimes we do need to push people a little bit outside their comfort zones so that they can see for themselves. I call it borrowing your belief. What are your thoughts on that, Doc?

Yes, borrowing your belief. You gotta instill that confidence into them. And if they— if you exude confidence, they— that confidence, it rubs off on them in a sense. So it boosts their confidence up as well. And, uh, that's all— it's all preparation for the report of findings, is that the first day of the exam, the consult, all those things where you come across as the expert. And then once you do that and you establish that credibility and that you are the expert, Then a lot of these objections, some of these bigger objections start to melt away to some degree, and, uh, they're— or they're easier to overcome.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, so what Dr. Vince is hitting on are very critical points there. And, uh, one of the other objections that we see from people is that they also will ask, can I just do Chiropractic, do I have to do decompression? And, uh, that's a— that's one they'll say, well, I just want to try chiropractic and not do the decompression. How would you, uh, go about counseling that patient, Dr. Vince?

Very good question. And in our clinic, uh, chiropractic is not— was not a part of our protocol. In other words, When we— if it was a disc patient, we recommended the spinal decompression protocol, what we called the Leone Method. So the Leone Method did not include chiropractic, so it wasn't even on the table. If they said, well, what if I could, you know, could I try chiropractic? I mean, you can try chiropractic. It's a phenomenal therapy. It's not the best therapy for a disc. It's not going to put water back in the disc. That's not what it's designed for. And so I guess my question to you is, are you looking for a Band-Aid? Are you looking to actually fix the problem? So put it back in their court. Now, some doctors add chiropractic into their spinal decompression protocol, and I get it, right? We're chiropractors. It's part of our nature. But when you do that, then, and you present a protocol that has chiropractic and decompression and maybe whatever, laser or whatever, and Now, decompression is just one component of this quote unquote protocol, and so in the patient's mind, it's equally weighted. Okay, so I got chiropractic and I got decompression, and I have you know maybe laser, and they're like, well, how about if I just do the part that's covered by insurance? This is what they're thinking in their head. How about I just do the part that's covered by insurance? Right, so it's going to be a cheap. I can try that out and go from there. So then in their head, they're thinking, well, can I just— or what they're saying to you, can I just try the chiropractic? Well, you can see how that sets you up for potential failure because you're not putting enough weight specifically on the spinal decompression, right? So the star has to be spinal decompression if we're treating the disc. And so, I typically recommend doctors do not add chiropractic into their treatment protocols if they're using our protocols, because our protocols work without chiropractic. If they want to do it as an adjunctive therapy, in other words, hey, we're going to correct the pelvic unleveling, we're going to correct the misalignments, we're going to, you know, do some of that. It doesn't take 24 visits to do that, you know, by and large. So you can use that as an adjunct therapy to the spinal decompression protocol. I don't personally feel like it needs to be 24 visits of chiropractic along with the spinal decompression. So I don't know, that, that's my take on that. What— how do you feel about that, Doc?

Well, I always emphasize that decompression is a program. It's a very specific program with, with multiple parts that all work together to produce the best possible result. And I wouldn't be recommending this program to you if I didn't think you needed, or this was your Best chance to get results. So if you want to pull one part out of that program and just do that part, yeah, you might be able to get some short-term symptomatic relief just by doing the one or two things that your insurance covers, but you're not going to get the, the longer-term results and the, the great clinical outcome that you're seeking on this. You're just basically taking a band-aid approach. And so that's kind of how I explain it to them, that every component part of this protocol works together to produce the best possible result that we can get you. That way it, it, it makes— it doesn't make any sense then for them to like piecemeal it. And so that's basically what they're doing then. And so then the ones—

And they're trying to take power away. Like, in other words, when they try to say, hey, can I do this, can I do that, It's like, well, okay, if you go into a 5-star Michelin restaurant or 3, whatever, 3-star Michelin restaurant, are you going to try to tell the chef, hey, can you try to just do that part of the recipe, not do everything else? No, that would be asinine. So it's kind of the same thing. And it is, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, it's a power move. They're trying to take power away and bring it to themselves and say, I want to just do this. And, you know, frankly, I would resist that. Hey there, it's Dr. Vince, and if you're getting value from this episode, please make sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you know another doc who's ready to grow their practice, share this with them. It might be exactly what they need right now. Thank you in advance, and now back to the show.

Yeah, I mean, the only other option, if they're just adamant that they're going to do— they're not going to do the program And it's pretty clear, yes, you could offer them, okay, we will, we'll do 1 month of chiropractic, but if we're not seeing results, we're going to come back and revisit.

Yeah.

The spinal decompression program, uh, 30 days down the road. Because, you know, 9 out of 10 chances, if it truly is a disc or spinal stenosis or some more complex problem, just adjusting alone is not usually going to be adequate for that. So you're going to get another chance to revisit it with them. But some people need to learn maybe the hard way that, okay, I gotta, I gotta— they need to learn or rule out things on their own first before they finally get to, yep, you're right, doc, this is the approach that I need to do. So that's kind of how I think we are— some of the best ways to handle that particular objection. Another objection that people come up with is, why do I need so many sessions? You know, in our protocol, we typically say about 24 is the dosage. Why do we say that, Dr. Vince?

Because that's what research supports. So, you know, no one wants to go in a restaurant that's open but empty, right? It's like something's wrong. People go where people go because people go where people go. So in other words, you want to use that to your advantage and you say, well, why do I need so many visits? Well, that's because that's what the research supports. So we're not, we're not like testing or practicing on you. This protocol has already helped thousands of patients nationwide. Why would you want to mess with that? The research supports 24 visits as a minimum viable dose. That's why we have that many visits.

Yeah, not, not a lot more needs to be said. People do ask that question though. That's what— what can I do? Just do 10 visits or 12 visits, or they want to kind of piecemeal or cut the program down. And that's— you got to keep coming back. This is— this is— we don't, we don't just arbitrarily pull 24 visits out of thin air. This was based upon studies that have been done to show that this is the viable— this is the Minimal clinical effective dosage. And so you keep coming back to that and they realize that, okay, this is the dose that it needs to be if I'm gonna get the best possible results. And we always encourage our doctors in specialized practice to kind of track their results with this protocol. And historically, we see 85 to 90% of patients, this, they get Excellent results with that protocol that involves a 24-treatment. So if they're gonna— if the patient's gonna say, oh, I'm only gonna do 12, well, there's no way you can guarantee or have any certainty of those results. Now, it is okay maybe to say, we're gonna re-examine you at the halfway point and see how you're progressing with this program and maybe make some changes and You know, the decompression protocol in the sense of settings on the table or angles or pulls, things of that nature. But not to say, oh, we're gonna— we're just gonna try 12, and if it's not working, we're gonna quit at that point. Okay, that's just to make adjustments if they're not— you're not seeing the results that you want. So those are things that you gotta talk through with the patient when they're trying to whittle their way out of A full commitment to 24 visits.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think less is more, uh, sometimes. Like, in other words, you don't need to talk on and on about, you know, why they need to do 24. Okay, well, because that's what the research supports, you know. So we're not practicing on you, we're just— we're using the research, we're using a protocol that has already helped thousands of patients. Why would you want to mess with that? Put it back on them. Why would you want to, you know, kind of endanger your, your chance of getting to the clinical outcomes that you're seeking? Does it make sense?

100%. Well, that leads us to another common objection. Some people, when you get them and report findings, they'll be like, oh, this decompression program, that's a lot of time, a lot of travel. I got to pay out of pocket for this. I want to explore other options. For my disc problem. There's got to be some good other options out there. How would you handle that objection, Doc?

What options are you exploring? That would be my first question. Okay, what options are you exploring and what have you tried so far? Now, if they've tried other things— well, I've tried PT, I've tried chiropractic. Okay, now keep in mind, in the front half of the ROF Your job is to explain spinal decompression, right? If it's a disc, that's part of your front half clinical side of things is to explain what spinal decompression does, why it's the best therapy on planet Earth to fix a disc, particularly non-surgically, right? And so by doing that, you essentially rule out other therapies. You rule out chiropractic 'cause it doesn't put water back in the disc. You rule out PT because it doesn't put water back in the disc. Injections, massage, pills, potions, lotions, surgery— none of that puts water back in the disc, right? So if they want to explore other options, I would ask them, what have you tried so far? Nothing. What else are you going to explore? PT. Okay, let's talk about PT. And then you can explain, hey, it's going to strengthen the muscles around the spine. That's great. That should be done post spinal decompression protocol. It's not going to put water back in the disc. You want to solve the disc problem, right?

Yes.

Great. It's not going to do it with PT. What else do you want to explore? So you need to be well-versed in all the other options. Well, I'm considering surgery. Really? That would be my first question. Really?

Yes.

And I would have an incredulous look on my face because in my— I mean, In my heart of hearts, all non-surgical options should be explored before surgery is considered. Why would you not? It doesn't make any sense. Why would you go under the knife and sign a stack of papers like a half inch thick of, you know, basically, you know, making them not responsible for any negative ramifications from the surgery and then have 6 months of post-surgical rehab before exploring a safe Uh, non-surgical option that you can continue to work while you're doing it, all that type of stuff. So, uh, that's always a, a shocker to me, you know, when I would hear patients say that, and I would just respond accordingly. Really? Uh, what, what, have you done the research on surgery? You know, I would be asking them those types of questions. Um, I don't know, what, how would you come at that?

Yeah, so if there's, if they're seeking other options, most of the time they're looking at, well, I'm going to go to a A lot of times, a specialist, okay? And, you know, my doc says I should go to a spine specialist. And in the back of my head, I'm already thinking, well, you're already at the spine specialist, you're here. But what they mean is a medical spine specialist. And truthfully, I just say, well, they have 3 tools in their toolbox. They're gonna give you drugs, shots, or surgery. That's what they got in their toolbox. I said there isn't a pill on the planet. Usually I tell them there's no pill that is going to reduce a disc bulge or herniation or do anything to change your spinal stenosis. There's no shot that they can give into your spine that's going to create any more room for these nerves that are compressed or irritated. And a lot of times I'll tell them shots, according to some of the latest studies, They help 32% of the time, and on average, in those 32% of cases, it helps 2 to 6 weeks, 2 to 8 weeks, in that range. So it's just a— it's a short-term band-aid.

Hmm.

And then I always tell them, well, surgery— surgery is always on the table, but as Dr. Leone said, that's your last resort. If everything else fails, then you could consider surgery. But then I share that with them, surgical statistics. First-time spine surgery has a 10% to up to 46% failure rate, depending on the study you read. It's somewhere in that range. If it's their second spinal surgery they're considering, it's a flip of a coin. It's 50/50 whether it'll help them at all. A third spinal surgery has a 70% failure rate. A fourth spinal surgery has an 85% failure rate.

Wow.

And a 5th spinal surgery is almost 95% failure rate. So you really only get one good crack at surgery, I tell them. So leave that as your last resort option. And then I also sometimes tell them, okay, you're considering surgery. Well, that has a 10 to 46% failure rate. We have a protocol here that has an 85 to 90% success rate. Success rate. So to me, you're, you're jumping the gun. You're skipping a major step here if you don't do this protocol by going to surgery when there's a large percent chance you could have gotten relief without surgery. So those are just some of the things that I share with people like that. And you know what you said about putting water into the discs?

Yeah.

PT is good, but that doesn't put water back in the disc. So massage feels good, but it doesn't put water back in the disc. So those are some of the things you need to think through as you're answering those questions and get the patient to realize that, okay, I am in the best spot. This is the best place I could be for this particular problem. I'm happy. And again, you're coming off as the expert.

Yeah, and I think what's important, if you really want to specialize in whether it's decompression, neuropathy, knee pain, you need to also raise your communication skill sets so that you have these facts and figures at your disposal, right? Because if you're able to reel off these stats and these options and what they do and don't do, Well, again, now you're perceived as the expert, and you can even tell the patient, hey, my job here is, you know, not only to, you know, diagnose and recommend care, but it's also to help guide you in this decision. Uh, you know, maybe surgery is the right, uh, option at some point, but in my expert opinion, it's not the right option now. If I felt you were a true surgical candidate, I would refer you out. And I referred out not a ton, but I certainly referred out patients for surgical consults. They weren't a candidate for my protocol. Um, and so I think that the more knowledge you have, the more you can help the patient make a well-informed decision. If they sense that like you're desperate trying to like quote unquote close them, that's a no-go. Um, they'll sense that. Patients' BS meters are off the charts these days. So, um, it, you know, we always talk about coming to the table from an education-based standpoint, try to educate the patient about their body, about their best options, and when those best options should be explored. So anyways, I think we addressed that pretty well. How about the big one, finances?

Yep.

I think doctors are probably gonna be like, hey, why are we not talking about money here? So we saved that one for last. But, you know, what are some common objections around this? Like, a lot of times patients won't say, you know, that's, that's too much money, or, um, uh, anyway. So what I like to do is get to the heart of the matter and say, hey, okay, so you feel like it's a good fit, you have the support of your spouse, like, it sounds like this may just be a finance issue, is that correct? And there's nothing wrong with just asking direct questions. I feel like in today's society, Um, again, people kind of avoid asking hard questions. Well, in your role as the doctor, uh, you can ask these questions. Hey, so it's okay, you know, just off the record. I love that quote, by the way, Dr. Labo. Uh, uh, wait, Dr. Nate Lobo. Labo. Labo. I, gosh, I always mispronounce his name. I apologize, Doc. Anyways, he said this, it's, hey, just off the record, right? So it's kind of a Break in frame, right? So in other words, it's kind of like it doesn't jar the patient, but it's like, hey, let's just be honest with each other. So hey, off the record, is this just a finance issue? You know, because if you feel like it's a good fit, you obviously want to fix the issue. Is is it just the money? Yeah, yeah, it is. Because a lot of times patients are just skeptical. You know, they're skeptical that it's gonna work, and they're not sure that they want to part with the money. And so then the next question is, okay, can I ask you kind of a personal question? Sure. Is it such that you don't have the money whatsoever? Don't have, you know, you don't have it yourself, you don't have room on credit card, you don't have, you know, friends or family that you can ask? Or is it that, you know, yeah, you do have access to it in one way or another, you're just not sure if you want to invest in the program? That would be my next question, because then it's like getting to the root of the matter, because some people just don't have the money, unfortunately. Um, and if that's the case, then, you know, then you can go down the path of using other therapies that are covered by insurance because of that factor alone. But if it is the money, um, I'm going to put this on you. I have my own thoughts, but if, if they say, yes, I, I do have the money, you know, essentially I'm a little skeptical. I'm not sure if I want to part with this money to pay for this program.

Yeah, well, if it— you have to, you have to put it back on to some degree and say, okay, what, what are your doubts, your objections? That, and then, and try to answer those. And if they, if they're skeptical about putting money down, they, they have some, they have some doubt in the back of their mind that they still need to Address, and you somehow have to, you have to get that out of them. And then always offer them options as far as payment options. So that is, you can't have a one-size-fits-all for finance options. You gotta have at least 3, maybe 4 different plans that you can go with, whether they, Pay all of it upfront, half upfront, uh, also different types of financing like CareCredit as an example. There's many such options out there, but you should have at least 3 different options that they can choose from so that they can pick a plan that would best fit them. And the last resort, you could finance them or they would pay so much a month to the clinic for over, over a longer period of time. But that would be only in pretty extreme circumstances. But, uh, those are some of my thoughts on that. How would you answer that, Doc?

Yeah, uh, and it's a great question because now we would already have, um, laid out those financing options, right? So in terms of the ROF, front half clinical, Transition, the 4 Horsemen to rule out all common objections, back half finances, right? So the total investment for the program is X, right? And then they're going to say, okay, do you have payment options? Some people will just give you a credit card. So if they don't just give you a credit card, then you say, yeah, we have payment options. You can pay upfront, save 5% or save 10%, whatever you want to do, right? I mean, 5%, 10%, 2%, everyone uses something different. 10% is kind of a benchmark because, you know, that's a bookkeeping fee. State allows you to do that. Most states allow you to do that. So, you pay it upfront, 10%, half when you begin, half in 30 days, or use outside financing. So, I'm not going to go super deep on how you kind of, you know, the talking points on that, but overcoming the financial objections after that is, I guess, what my point is. So, they know what the financing options are. Are. And so they say, yeah, it is, it is just a finance issue. Okay, totally understand. What does life look like in 1 year if you don't do anything? And so what you kind of see is I'm just asking questions. It's the Socratic method. It's not really your job, in my opinion, to convince them to take care. What your job is really is to Diagnose and recommend treatment. That's really your core job. But we did talk about hey, pushing people outside their comfort zone, and this is a great question. Okay, I understand. I mean, this is a you know typically a condition that gets worse over time. What does life look like in a year? You know you told me on your day one that your hope was to be able to play with your grandkids. So. Do you think in a year you'll be able to play with your grandkids? Do you want to lose a year being able to play with your grandkids? I mean, there's— I mean, I'm not trying to get morbid here, but we only have so much time on this planet. I mean, how much more time do you want to waste? Is $4,000 or $5,000, you know, worth sacrificing the time with your grandkids or the time on the golf course or the time with your spouse? It really all comes down— typically, if people have the money, it's an exchange of value and they're weighing it against something else. But if you don't, if you don't bring that up in terms of what they're going to sacrifice to keep the money, that's what it comes down to. You're going to sacrifice money or you're going to sacrifice the thing that you care about. That's, that's the decision. So you have to ask them, what do you care more about? Do you care more about keeping the money in your bank account, or do you care about sacrificing this thing That this condition has taken away from you? So now you're not twisting arms, you're not using NLP, you're not using anything. All you're doing is asking questions and let them think in their mind, shoot, you know, what is the best thing for me? But if you don't really like kind of ask the question or put it out there, they probably won't be even thinking in that frame of mind, right? Because they're in a money frame of mind. So you got to get them out of the money frame of mind and into the future of what life looks like. Not only are they not going to be able to play with their grandkids over the next 12 months, they're also going to be in this pain the entire time, taking drugs and not being able to sleep and being grouchy and all the crap that comes along with a chronic back pain condition. So I just like to ask questions. And sometimes they're uncomfortable questions, but as the doctor, I felt comfortable asking them because I felt it was my job. I felt it was my job to share my experience with them so that they didn't have to experience it themselves.

That was a 1,000 times better answer than I gave. That was a really, really high-end, very good answer. And the beautiful thing about it is you're getting the patient to see the big picture.

Yeah.

What's important in your life? Your health, your relationships, in comparison to your finances. And most people at the end of their life aren't going to say, oh, I wish I'd accumulated more finances. They're going to say, no, I wish I would have spent more time with my family and my my friends and really concentrated on the people in my life. And so that's a bad trade-off to say, well, yeah, I can't spend a few thousand dollars because that's so important to me. And you're really getting them to see the big picture when you do that. And that was a— that's a great way of explaining it to patients so that they see, hey, This is just stuff. This is a small amount of money really in the grand scheme of things for what you could gain.

Yeah, 100%. So I think that's a great place to end. You know, we covered some of the common objections, spouse, obviously finances, other options, just doing chiropractic, how many sessions do I need? So docs, use this, use this on Monday, use this tomorrow. Um, that's the point of the podcast, is so that we can, you know, share our experiences with you so that you can turn around and share those, uh, that, you know, knowledge with your patients. And hopefully you can help more patients get out of their comfort zone, get into care, uh, and experiencing these life-changing results that we can create. So, uh, that's going to wrap it up for this episode of the Practice Builders Podcast. For Dr. Pankin, and I'm Dr. Vince Leone. Thank you for tuning in. Please consider giving us a 5-star review, share it with a colleague, and we'll see you next time on the Practice Builders Podcast. Hey, it's Dr. Vince again, and hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you're ready to grow your practice fast with high-value decompression patients, then the Decompression Accelerator could be a phenomenal option for you. This is our 90-day sprint to help you scale with proven systems, staffed driven protocols and full marketing support, and it's all guaranteed. Spots are limited. Head to www.decompressionaccelerator.com to learn more.