I Need To Think About It

Hey there, and welcome back. I'm Dr. Vince Leone, executive producer and co-host of the Practice Builders Podcast. With my partner in crime, Dr. Kyle Pankinen, we deliver proven strategies to help you grow fast, specialize with confidence, and build profitable staff-run practices. Let's go ahead and dive into today's episode now. Hello and welcome. My name is Dr. Vince Leone.

And I'm Dr. Kyle Pankinen, and we are the partners in crime On the Practice Builders Podcast, and, uh, we got a good topic today. Dr. Leone, my friend and colleague, will introduce it to you guys.

Yeah, so, uh, again, welcome to the Practice Builders Podcast. Happy to have you here. And today's topic is, what do you say when patients say, I need to think about it? And so if you're going to do— and, uh, you're gonna, you know, play at this higher level with cash-based services, um, you know, whether it's decompression, ROTH, knee pain, any high-value cash service, you will get If not done properly. And so we, you know, talked to a lot of doctors that are— they run into this. And so what we want to work today on is to give you the tools of how to, how to treat this, how to overcome it, how to sometimes even prevent it. Because what Dr. Kyle is going to go into here in a second, it's— There is a lack of clarity at some point in the evaluation process. And so while we will give you some tactical responses to this and how to handle it if you get it in the ROF, what we also want to do is give you some tools so that it never comes up in the first place. So, Dr. Pankinen, why don't you kick things off there, sir?

Well, we've all heard the phrase, boy, this sounds really good, Doc, or this sounds great. But I need to think about it, right? No doctor that's walking the face of the earth has not heard that phraseology before, okay? So what that really means though in English is the patient saying, I've not reached enough certainty. They have questions, doubts, something in their mind where they can't make a decision. So hopefully what we'll do on this podcast is help you to improve your communication and get to the root cause, because that phrase is, is a generic response. And the patient— you need to ask more questions, in essence, to get to the root cause. Um, So really, it is just a polite way of saying, I do not fully understand my problem yet. I do not understand why this treatment that you are suggesting is the answer. I am concerned maybe about the cost. I am afraid it might not work. I need my spouse's approval. I know I would need that one personally. I do not trust the diagnosis yet. Or I don't feel— they don't feel— I don't feel enough urgency that I have to really take that. So they don't— the patients basically, in essence, they don't want a confrontation with you. They don't want to really say, well, I can't afford this, or they're just saying, I need to think about it. It's a soft way for them to deflect or get out of the situation, that type of thing. So the hesitation, it's really a symptom, but it's not the actual problem, docs. And that's where you and I come in, and we, we then listen to the patient, we ask probing questions, and we get to the root, like I just said. So we'll talk about some reasons why people hesitate. We have 4 or 5 or 6 of them we're going to rattle off here to the audience. And I think, I think as we go through this, this will make a lot of sense to you, Doc. So, Dr. Leone, what is, uh, maybe the first reason why people hesitate or give the I need to think about it?

Yeah, so, um, and just to, to kind of reiterate what Dr. Pankinen is saying is It's pretty much a soft no. Um, it's, you know, most people want to avoid confrontation, probably especially with the doctor, right? Um, so they're really just saying no. Um, and if they leave your office, um, I would say 9 times out of 10, you're never going to hear from them again, um, unless you have some proactive follow-up, then potentially you could, but most doctors don't. Um, and so I would You know, if you hear this, and by the way, I would anticipate this. In other words, we're, you know, based on the training today, we'll go and give you some tools on how to try to prevent this. But I would just anticipate that you are going to need to overcome some objections, right? And it could be, I need to think about it. It could be spouse, could be money. But once you present, you know, you've gone through your whole ROF and you've presented the plan and, um, everything that we teach. I would just be anticipating that in addition to all that, you are going to need another 5 to 10 minutes of just overcoming objections, and this is just one of them. And so if you do anticipate that, then, then it's not a surprise when you get, you know, it would be more of a surprise if someone just, you know, brings out the credit card and say, yeah, that sounds great. That's going to be about 10 to 15% of patients that they're just like, yep, this sounds great, let's go. Um, so that would be the exception where, and then what I want What I want you doctors to be thinking is more like, okay, the norm is that I'm going to get pushback, right? And then to be prepared for it, right? So that you— and that's again, what exactly what we're talking about today, to give you some of those tools for the pushback. It's totally normal. Anytime you're going to kind of play in the deep end of the pool, which is what high-value cash services are, you're going to need to elevate your skill sets when it comes to communication. So let's just dive into these reasons why people hesitate. The first one is they don't fully understand their condition. And they, if they don't fully understand, you know, what the condition is and the severity of it and why, you know, nothing else is going to fix it, well, they're probably going to default to, well, I'll just use my insurance, whatever my insurance covers, you know, I'll just do that. And so, you know, the fix of that is that, well, you need to obviously first explain thoroughly what the condition is. And then talk about, hey, this is why I'm not recommending these therapies.

Right.

Could be chiropractic, could be PT, could be injections, it could be massage, whatever those, you know, all the other traditional therapies are. I'm not recommending these and here's why. And briefly explain, you know, how none of those other therapies hydrate the disc so that it can heal naturally, take pressure off the nerve. And so what happens is, and so what I am recommending is spinal decompression therapy. And this is what the, It does, right? So we do want to make sure that they fully understand their condition so that it sets up why we're recommending spinal decompression. Hopefully that makes sense, because if they don't understand, you know, the, the disc is the cause and the only thing to fix the disc non-surgically is spinal decompression, then they're going to try to default to anything else that is less expensive. That— I think it's just Human nature, right? You're going to— you want to exhaust all opportunities that could potentially fix it. But if you lay it out very succinctly and then again rule out the traditional therapies that they're already thinking of, or by the way, if they've already tried it and then you tell them now why it didn't work, now all of a sudden you look that much smarter, right? And they would— and then internally they're thinking, shoot, I wish I came to this guy first, right? So Thoughts on that, Dr. Pankinen?

Excellent thoughts. The only thing I always tell doctors too, and I did a podcast on a solo one a little while back, is you gotta— when you're explaining the problem to people, the disc or sciatica, you have to just use simple everyday analogies that they can understand. Say for instance, a degenerated disc, you use an example of a dried up sponge, and then you You talk about how decompression in essence is like putting some water back into the sponge and watching the sponge expand. If you're talking about a bulge or herniation, use an analogy of an ice cream sandwich where it's compressing and it's, it's oozing out in a sense. If you're dealing with a pinched nerve, use an analogy such as stepping on the water hose and the water's not getting through. Stuff like that. People understand better than— you have a 10 millimeter right lateral disc extrusion at L5-S1, they don't have a clue what that is. So I mean, we know this as docs, but sometimes they don't understand just because we've been a little bit on the too technical side. And you got to get it down to a very simplistic analogy. So the second one in our group of Hesitation is they don't believe the problem is serious enough. You know, people that live with chronic pain for a while, they almost, they almost get used to it in such a sense that it almost becomes, this is just normal, this is who I am, I— this is, um, my name is Mrs. Jones and I have back pain and that's my life, you know. And, and so they They don't necessarily see the urgency of it or how serious it is. Or so what you need to do as a doctor in your consults or report of findings is connect that, okay, it's not normal to have pain. And you need to say, what is this going to look like in a year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now? Now it's just pain. But in 5 years, are you going to be able to continue doing and fill in the blank, golfing, playing with your grandkids, going on trips, walking with your spouse, whatever, just doing simple things like that? And the consequence of, or the progression of degeneration The progression of nerve damage that is taking place. You need to sometimes get them to see the big picture and not just focus on, well, yes, I have this pain, but you know what, I'm handling it okay. But it's been there for a year or 6 months or 2 years. You gotta get them to see the big picture and look to the future of what it's gonna be like and the consequences Yeah, I think that's an excellent point.

I think most of us, and probably patients as well, is we're thinking about today, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, but definitely not next year or in a few years. And so using the Socratic method, like, hey, so, I mean, Just out of curiosity, if this is affecting your sleep and your work and ability to play with grandkids now, and these conditions typically— don't want to scare you, but typically are progressive and degenerative. So, I mean, what do things look like in 3 years? So, again, we don't do that to scare patients. We just want them to make a well-informed decision about their health as soon as possible, right? I don't think surgeons would do Typically anything different if they felt like, you know, it was serious enough that it needed, you know, that intervention. And so we feel it's serious enough for this intervention. And if it is going to get worse, I think, in my opinion, it's our responsibility to get them to think about it, right? So that they can make the best decision for their health, not just today, but, you know, in the next 3, 5, 10 years. So. I think that's really key. It does take some confidence to do that. It's not a comfortable situation. I've always said that I feel like in the doctor-patient relationship, there needs to be a leader and a follower, an alpha and a beta. And I don't mean that— I always say this— I don't mean that in a dominant sense. I mean that in a leadership perspective. They are— you are their doctor in theory, right? Or they're considering you to be their doctor. And if that's the case, I mean, you really need to Be the leader in that relationship. You have all the knowledge, that's why they came to you. And so if you're not gonna ask the tough questions, who is? And I think, again, I think it's our responsibility to do that so that we can help, you know, people live better lives. So I think that's a huge one. The next one, reasons is they don't believe that your solution is different. And this is, it kind of ties back to what I was talking about before. I mean, if you're not able to differentiate decompression against chiropractic, I mean, obviously we all love chiropractic, but adjusting the spine or, you know, removing subluxations, it doesn't hydrate the disc, right? So if we have a disc problem, that's what we're trying to solve. What we're trying to do is create negative pressure in the disc so it hydrates and Takes pressure off the nerve or whatever the factor is at that point. What is it causing, right? So, because that could be a degenerative disc where it's not necessarily nerve pain, we're getting radicular pain, it's just having some functional issues in the spine because of the degenerative disc. Regardless, if we don't separate and differentiate what spinal decompression is and does, again, they're going to just default to traditional— Therapies, and then they'll just kind of run through the gamut until it doesn't work. And maybe they come back in a year or 6 months, or maybe they don't, who knows. But they have to. And by the way, everyone wants new and different. I mean, and that really goes for any type of solution. If you're looking for any type of solution to any problem that you have, our brains are wired to be drawn to something that's new and different and better.

Yeah.

And so that's how you want to position spinal decompression.

Yeah, final thought I would have on that is I tell patients quite frequently, I know you've tried therapy and adjustments and massage and acupuncture, you may have tried a lot of different things, but if you haven't done spinal decompression therapy and you're thinking about surgery, you, you're skipping a major, major step. A major intervention that could help you to avoid surgery that is totally different than anything you've ever tried before. And that sometimes resonates because when you talk about the surgery thing, that's the one of their biggest fears is, oh boy, I don't wanna have surgery if at all possible. And so you're not trying to make them fearful, but you're trying to make them think that If this is the best— I always tell people, this is the best non-drug and non-surgical treatment option for your particular spine problem. And, uh, that way they know, okay, well, this is, this is my last best hope in a sense. And that sometimes resonates with them. And that goes into our next point, uh, reasons why people hesitate. Number 4 is fear of failure. They're like, what if I spend all this money and it doesn't work? That's a legitimate fear, right?

Absolutely.

'Cause there's nothing on the planet that works 100% of time. So the patient, you know, they maybe have the money, but they just don't wanna make a bad decision and invest in something that isn't going to work. Usually you can overcome this by clinical confidence. If the patient has confidence in you, and how you'll establish that is you're gonna— in the consult, you're gonna genuinely listen to them, let them speak. You're gonna give them the best exam they've ever had, bar none, and you're gonna come across as an expert in their site. And, you know, you can back that— some of that up with, you know, testimonials Research. And the other thing I always tell doctors to do, especially if they're newer in the world of decompression, is keep track of your results for the first 1 to 2 years that you do decompression so that you can not only build your own confidence in your protocol, what you're accomplishing in people with patients, but you can tell patients, this is what I see in clinical practice over the last year or 2 years. So, Last year we had a 93% success rate with our decompression program. So what am I telling patients this year? Your odds of success are 93%. Historically, I've been keeping track of this for 10 years. Historically, it's always somewhere between 85 and about 93% success. So I can very confidently tell a patient, I understand your fear that This might not work, and that is a legitimate fear. But statistically, you have about 85 to 93% chance that this is going to work. And I don't know about you, but that's pretty good odds. And that's when you tell people that they're like, oh, that's that's pretty good. And it kind of lays that fear to rest, that fear of failure.

Hey there, it's Dr. Vince. And if you're getting value from this episode, please make sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you know another doc who's ready to grow their practice, share this with them. It might be exactly what they need right now. Thank you in advance. And now back to the show. Yeah. And I think that fear of failure ties directly to a lack of confidence, right? Or it's a confidence issue. And that's why, you know, at SP, we really lean heavily into Clinical confidence, clinical excellence, so that the doctor can feel it first, right? The patients—they need to feed off of you, right? So if you are feeding them a lack of confidence or you are equivocating, they will sense that and they will, you know, take the cue from you. If you are highly confident, you know, in what the condition is. And that you can help them and what the best recommendation is, then they will feed off that as well. And having the data, like Dr. Pankinen had said, I mean, having the data, I mean, there's no substitute for the hard facts. And a lot of people, it helps them kind of that logical side of things. It helps them make a decision.

It helps.

Bring that confidence to bear so that they can trust you in the process. And so that leads us into our last one, which is a lack of trust. And again, it comes down to confidence again. And obviously there's a theme here and we're going to get into, you know, some things that you can be doing in the consultation and the exam here specifically. But if they don't trust you, you have dropped the ball somewhere along the way. So in other words, either in the health history itself, the consultation, maybe you just, you didn't listen properly, right? Maybe you had a bad day or, you know, or maybe your staff did the intake and so that they didn't, and they didn't have a connection with them. But there's some, somewhere along the way, you know, we had a disconnect. And then if you do a perfunctory exam, I.e., you know, a couple ortho tests and you're done, like just a really quick wham-bam exam, it's going to— they're just going to view you as everybody else, right? So what we're trying to do is position our doctors as true experts. And we're not trying to do that through some, you know, fancy marketing messaging. What we're trying to do is actually create true experts. I mean, it's a crazy concept. But the point being is we're actually trying to create— Doctors who are excellent at what they do. And part of that is an excellent world-class exam, which Dr. Pankinen has phenomenal training in our program for. And so what that does is now we have a consultation where they feel truly heard, right? Because this may be the first time they've been truly heard. Like, in other words, like, if they go to a pain management doctor, that's just a mill, right? Just a boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Give them pills, pills, pills. Their spouse, if this has been going on long enough, their spouse may be tuning them out, right? Because they have heard the complaints for so long that it's just now it's just white noise. So now they're not getting heard there. So this may be the first, if done right, this may be the first time that the patient really feels heard in the consultation. And that is going to develop a connection, right? Then you do a world-class exam and you figure out, well, what did this condition take away from you? You know, what are you not able to do because of this condition? Because, you know, at the end of the day, no one buys decompression visits or, or doctor visits or, or laser visits or anything of that nature. What they're buying is an outcome, a transformation. And if they believe, you know, and they have the confidence in you that you can deliver that, that's what they're going to latch on to. And, uh, and that's when you see doctors start to really climb up in terms of that enrollment rate, is, uh, is when they really combine all 3 of those, right? Uh, excellent consultation, a world-class exam, and then— and we're not going to get it, get into how to do the alchemical ROF, but really, you know, an excellent ROF as well, um, that will overcome common objections. But again, a lack of trust typically comes from a lack of confidence.

Absolutely. Boy, that was some valuable gems in there. A couple more points that we'll, we'll touch on as we near the end here. So he pretty well hit on most of these, Dr. Vince, did bowel review. Just a few consultation mistakes that docs make that create some hesitation. So just information overload. Sometimes we just, you know, overwhelm patients with their MRI findings and stuff, and they just They can't hardly process it all, and that creates a lack of clarity. We sometimes in the consult tend to talk too much. You gotta give the patient time to ask 'em a couple questions and just listen and make sure you're verbally affirming and saying, am I understanding you right? And repeat what maybe what they have said to you can be a big one. We talked about creating value. Dr. Vince touched on that, where we're clearly defining the problem, where the consequences of avoiding the problem or leaving it, and we're presenting the solution before we're presenting the cost. And then touching on that, making that emotional connection. I always tell patients the goal of our treatment is to reduce your pain by 50% or more, but I always make a goal too of We're going to address whatever it is this condition is taking from your life or in, uh, most affecting your life, be it your sleep, your love life, your work, whatever that might be. So here's where the rubber meets the road though, Dr. Vince. That patient says to you, well—

You did everything else right.

And they still say, I still need to— I gotta— I need to think about it, Dr. Vince. Give our listeners maybe 1 or 2 tips that could help them in that situation. What should they do?

Yeah, so everything we talked about so far is all trying to prevent that from happening, right? Trying to prevent the I need to think about it and give you the best chance of like, um, You know, just moving forward in some capacity. And when you do it correctly, it typically— then you're just figuring out the finances. And, you know, by and large, the more finance options you have, the more patients you will enroll. But if you then still get that, I need to think about it, totally understand. And I encourage that. While I am here and while you are here, what specifically Do you need to think about? And then just be quiet. And what we're really trying to get to is what is the actual objection? You know, is it a timing issue? Is it— in other words, like, are they traveling? Um, do they have a work conflict? You know, are they not able to make the schedule work? Do they need to talk with their spouse? Like, we're just trying to drill down. Um, And figure out, well, what exactly do they need to think about? And so we're going to ask them very clearly, while we're here, we've carved out all this time together, what exactly do you need to think about so I can help you make a well-informed decision? And then be quiet and let them answer. So that's step one, is just being upfront. The thoughts on that, Dr. Kyle, like, Where do you take it from there? Say it's okay. So, so we asked that question because, by the way, if you say, totally understand, like, so, you know, here's some information and you just go home and, you know, we'll call you in a week or, you know, you give us a call or whatever. That's where we typically never hear from them again. So a couple of things we want to do is first identify what is the true objection. In other words, what do they need to think about? Well, I just don't know if I want to spend the money. Totally understand. I appreciate you being upfront and honest with me about that. Can I ask you a question?

Sure.

Is it that you don't have the money? Like, in other words, if you paid for this, that you wouldn't be able to eat next week? Because obviously that is a totally different situation. Or is it that you have the money, we can figure out a way to, you know, to make it work for you, you're just not sure if you want to invest in this? So from a money perspective, I want to try to figure out, is it really money? Like, in other words, if they don't have— literally don't have— if they have $100 in their bank account, they're not going to afford— they're not going to qualify for any type of financing. So in that situation, then you may— well, hey, try to figure out something that is covered by insurance, you know, to get them some relief. Um, we don't need to go into that because that's kind of a different topic. But the point being is I just want to figure out, like, hey, Is it really that they don't have the money? If that's the case, that's a different situation. Or, by the way, they shouldn't really be in your clinic if if that's the case. And there's ways to figure that out on the phone if your staff member is well well qualified and well trained. And then or it's like no, I have the money. I just don't know if I want to invest it. Okay, that's a different conversation. So we're just trying to figure out and just ask simple questions and be quiet. What exactly is the objection? And then address that particular objection.

Yeah, I think that really is the, the nuts and bolts of this, is, is you just gotta find it, try to refine down to what actually is the hesitation, what is the objection, and then in a meaningful way to try to address that as best as you can. And ultimately then They might still say no, but at least you know why they're saying no. And how many of those people though that instead of saying, I need to think about that, and you just let them go, how many of those people that say that and you actually get to the root and you address that issue, how many of those people might actually be a case that is an accepted one? In other words, they go forward with care, and that could be the difference between you know two starts a month and five or six or seven starts a month. And that could make a big difference in the bottom line. Just taking it to that next step and asking that that question of them and answer actually more questions if need be to get to. The bottom line, the root cause, the root objection. So you're just communicating. It's communication skills and getting an understanding in that relationship. And when— this will help you to have a higher rate of case acceptance. That's the bottom line, docs, with all this. Patients buy hope and They buy certainty and they buy a clear path towards getting their life back. And if you can put those out in front of them in a meaningful way, you know, we always teach it's a specialized practice. If you can convert 50% or more of your cases that are potential full-blown decompression, full plan case, if you can convert 50% or more, You're doing a pretty good job. If you're less than 50%, something's missing and you need to polish up on it. And some of it might be just some of the topics that we talked about here today. And a lot of our doctors are up around 70, 80, 90% conversion. And that's where you're hitting on all cylinders and doing a good job. You'll never get, maybe Dr. Vince got to 100, I don't know.

No, not even close. But here, you know, a final tip on this. Like, again, I think what if I just don't, don't roll over, right? If they say I need to think about it, that's where you're like, okay, now the games begin. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I have a friend, uh, you know, he's an, uh, a talent agent in Los Angeles. And he said, you know what, Vince, um, when I hear no, I know that the negotiation has now begun. Do you hear what I'm saying? So when they say, let me think about it, that's their first no. It's a first salvo. And just look, just try to keep in mind that we're not going to try to hard sell someone into something. We're not trying to get them into a plan that's not right for them. We're trying to really do them a service because if in a year they've invested, say, $5,000 and now they get their life back, they will never ever worry about that $5,000. They'll never say, gosh, I wish I didn't spend that $5,000 and now I can live my life how it's supposed to be lived. Um, so don't ever worry about that. Um, and just a final tip is like, you know, what do you need to think about? You know, and then, and then you want to then, if they, if they're still not ready to move forward at that time, then you just want to ask like, well, what can I give you? Like if they need to talk to their spouse or they need to look at their finances, What can I give you to go home with so that you can, you know, have it in front of you? Because, you know, what's going to happen is if you don't have material to review specifically, you're going to go home and probably forget half of what we talked about today. So I'd love to give you whatever you need to make the best decision for your health. And then give them the tools that they need. It could be all the different financing options. It could be The research, it could be testimonials, it could be all of the above. Um, and then set a next appointment. So this is what nobody does, and I don't know why, but say it's Monday. Say, okay, so I'm going to send this all home. I've found that for most people, most patients, they need about, you know, 2 nights and they'll talk with their spouse. They'll look at their finances. I'm not trying to rush you into the decision here. I know I can help you. I feel extremely confident that you're going to get great results. Okay, we've talked about what those would look like. So what I would suggest is let's go ahead and get you scheduled for Thursday. That gives you a couple nights to go over everything. Here's all the material that you need. And, and look, if you want to cancel the appointment, no big deal, just call the office. But let's get you on the books. We're a very busy office. I don't want this thing going out weeks on end to where you don't get the help that you need. Right. So now there's a finite Next step for them to actually make the decision. Because honestly, waffling, leaving something out in the open, like undecided, serves nobody. It's, it's like it's an open loop. In other words, it's going to cause frustration. So you're going to be frustrated because you haven't heard back from the patient. They're going to be, you know, they're going to be kind of in limbo as well. And again, that's not going to serve them. So, and then you're just gonna know, hey, They show up on Thursday and they're moving forward, or it's a no, right? So I would recommend that doing that one last thing is just getting them their next appointment on the books. And it's either to start or like say it's their spouse, maybe they need to bring their spouse in, right? They didn't have their spouse. Now we schedule another appointment with the spouse. But I would recommend doing that last thing, you know, A, getting the material that's most appropriate for them to go home with. So that they have something professional to review. So that obviously you need to create that. And then the next appointment. So those are some tangible things to, um, uh, to help, you know, move patients from I need to think about it to I'm starting care.

Finally, I would say this, you know, I know to somebody listening and even to me sometimes it's like, wow, this is a lot of work. It's a lot of Communication and effort and time. And sometimes it can be frustrating. And I've had a couple times over the course of my career where I've let my frustration show to patients, and that didn't go good, trust me. And, uh, but you gotta think about the big picture, doctors, in the sense these are $3,000 or $4,000 or $5,000 or $6,000 cases. It's worth spending an extra $5,000 or $10,000 or $15,000 or another appointment To, if, if need be, to sit down and talk it over with a spouse or do, you know, some of the things Dr. Vince was talking about. Because, you know, one decompression case is like a whole pile of chiropractic patients in some instances. So it's, it's worth the effort and it's worth the time and, uh, it will serve you well to To maintain your composure and to, to take your time with these cases if need be.

Yeah, just stay in it. Again, you know, keep asking questions. And if you're there for the right reason, right intentions to serve, they'll feel it. And I think if you start to employ some of these things, you're going to get less, I need to think about it. And then even if you do get the, I need to think about it, you'll have some Hopefully, just based on what we talked about today, some tangible ways to address it, um, and to follow up with these patients. And, um, you know, a lot of times when the patients that are the— they're a little skeptical, but then you get them under care and they get amazing results, they become your biggest fans, you know. So you turn a skeptic into a fan, you know, they're going to be singing your praises. Great testimonials, great referral source. So yeah, just like Dr. Bankman-Fried said, highly worth it. Is it— does it take more time, effort, energy to develop these skill sets? Absolutely. But you are rewarded in kind, right? So nothing in life comes easy. You gotta just gotta do the work is really what it comes down to it. So any parting thoughts? But I think we covered that pretty well, Doc.

Yeah, I always like your statement, Dr. Vince, about everybody wants the fire, but nobody wants to what?

Put in the wood.

That's right.

That's my dad's saying. Uh, I remember, you know, these— and, and that's the thing about analogies, like Dr. Pankin was saying, you know, using analogies in the consultation and, and the ROF is so powerful because they stick with people. But that's a good one. Uh, yeah, my dad said that from the beginning. He's like, you know, everyone wants wood, but no one— or everyone wants the fire, but no one wants to put in the wood. And the wood obviously is the time, effort, Yeah. Energy, money, finances, um, to, you know, develop a practice that, you know, a lot of other doctors would love to have. So anyways, great time, a great note to end on there. Uh, so for Dr. Pankinen, I'm Dr. Vince Leone. Thanks for tuning in again to the Practice Builders Podcast. Hope this was valuable to you, and if it was, share it with a colleague. Uh, would love to help more doctors. We know we have some really loyal listeners. And, um, I was talking, talking to a doctor the other day. He's listened to every episode multiple times.

Oh, that's a fan.

That's a fan. And I was like, are you tired of hearing this yet? He's like, no, I get something new every time. It's like, well, that's great. Um, so anyway, so on that note, um, again, uh, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you all on the next episode. Hey, it's Dr. Vince again, and hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you're ready To grow your practice fast with high-value decompression patients, then the Decompression Accelerator could be a phenomenal option for you. This is our 90-day sprint to help you scale with proven systems, staff-driven protocols, and full marketing support, and it's all guaranteed. Spots are limited. Head to www.decompressionaccelerator.com to learn more.