Investing in Yourself: The Importance of Coaching for Chiropractors

Welcome to the Practice Builders Podcast hosted by Dr. Vince Leone and Dr. Kyle Pankinen, your source for building cash services. Let's dive in. Okay. Welcome everybody back to another episode of the Practice Builders Podcast. I am your co-host, Dr. Vince Leone, joined by Dr.

Kyle Pankinen, and we are excited to have you with us today. I think we got a great topic, which Dr. Leone will introduce.

Yeah, I think it's a really, uh, a great topic and a timely topic. And before I jump into that, if you haven't subscribed, please do. And if you get value out of this, please share this with a colleague so that we can help more doctors grow their practices and achieve, you know, whatever dream life is, is what it is for them. Some doctors want to, you know, more time off. Some doctors want to make more money. Some doctors want to be the preeminent specialist in their community. Some doctors want to grow, grow, grow. Whatever that is for you or your colleagues, um, if you feel like this brings value, please share. We don't run ads to this podcast, so, uh, the only way we grow is by, uh, you know, you doctors sharing the message. So with that being said, let's go ahead and dive in. Our topic today is coaches. What should you have a coach? What are the benefits of a coach? What are the pitfalls to watch out for? All these are really great. And Dr. Kyle had this idea, and I, of course, as a coach, I'm a proponent of it. But we're going to talk about each of our own history with coaches. Then we're going to go into some benefits, how to choose the right coach. How long you should give it to ensure that you have the best opportunity for success. What are your responsibilities in the relationship? And then we'll wrap it up. So, great idea, Doc. You've had a few coaches prior to us working together. Tell us a little bit about that history. Yeah.

So, I'll just come right out and say I'm a big proponent of coaching. I've seen the benefit of it. All through different phases of my 24-plus-year career now. And so, I will just share briefly experiences with the 3 or 4 coaches I have had in the past and things that I learned or that really benefited to me. So, I started with a gentleman, Dr. Willie Fielhaber, with Accent Consulting years ago. And these are in some of my formative years of practice. And what he really implanted in me is the importance of keeping track of stats, your new patients, your total patients and referrals and all, all the different stats in your collections. And he really laid it out to me, things that you want to be collecting on a daily basis, a weekly basis, a monthly basis. And that's a practice that I have employed throughout my career now. And found that to be very invaluable. And it was an area I was just overlooking early on in my practice. He also just helped me—

Can I— I just want to pop in there really quick. One thing about Dr. Kyle, because we've worked together for quite a time, is he always has his stats. And one common thread that I've seen among some of the most successful doctors that I've coached is they know their stats. Either they know their stats already when they came into the relationship, or as they work, as we work together, they get very good at knowing their stats. And I just, you know, if you don't know where you're at, well, how the heck are you going to know if you're successful? And if you are successful, what does that mean? What is the— what are the benchmarks for you? Um, so anyways, I just wanted to pop in there. I— that's something I always observed, observed about you, Dr. Kyle, is You always know your numbers, new patients, revenue, visits, all that stuff. And it's, again, just gives you the data to make good decisions moving forward.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That was so invaluable. And it was because of coaching. He instilled that into me early in my career, and I took it. I've taken it with me ever since. We worked with him for a couple of years, and then that kind of ran its course. And then we started working with Whitehall Management, Greg Stanley. And he taught me lots of things about finances and being conservative with investing and things like that, which that was very valuable to me. But he really hammered home the patient experience.

Oh, I like that.

Of what, you know, what a high-end patient experience should be like and the value of staying on time and, and Having a staff that treats your patients with just love and and and respect, and and just makes them feel like they're family. And and so that's a thing we've always done in our practices. We make our patients feel so good about themselves, and it's just contagious amongst our staff. So that was a huge thing that I learned from coaching, and that is. That's helped me throughout my whole career. I had one other coach before Dr. Leone, which is Dr. Paul Inselman, Inselman Coaching, and he really brought some higher-level thinking to me. One thing that he challenged me to do is, Kyle, you're in a, you're in a market where getting on the radio is really cheap, and it is in my market. I'm in a town of 850 people, and he said, you need to start your own radio show. And I started it.

So smart.

Several years ago. It's called Treat the Cause.

Great.

And we've done an episode a week now for several years, and it's just a constant flow of new patients. He was also the one that turned me on to the idea of starting a Did You Know series of emails. So every month we send out 2 emails to our patients, and they always start out with, did you know? And then we— it's educational based in nature. And then finally, the last 4 years since about May or June of 2020, I've been with Dr. Leone. And that is where my practice— we— that all those other coaches laid a lot of good foundation for me. And then bringing Dr. Leone onto our team is where it took our practice from a moderately successful practice to a top 1% practice. And that was built upon that foundation, but that was high-end marketing, high-end thinking as far as thinking bigger with the practice, and then the addition of niches and cash-based services and how to make that all work. And up till that point, a heavily insured, insurance-driven practice.

And so I think you're more like 50/50 cash insurance now, aren't you?

I'm almost exactly 50/50, where before I was about 90/10.

Yeah, yeah, I like that 50/50.

So those are, those are just some of my experiences. And I want to turn now the table over to Dr. Leone and let him maybe talk about some of the value that he's seen with some of his past coaches as well.

Yeah. And I think that, I mean, you've had some great coaches. I mean, getting the stats, kind of having that instilled early on, the exceptional patient, we call it the exceptional patient experience. I mean, that is, um, critical. And then, uh, man, the, the email, uh, Insulman, he was ahead of his time with the email. The email marketing is huge. I think every doctor should be emailing their patient base at least once a week. Um, but once a week is perfect, uh, with value, right? Value testimonials, case studies, did you know? Um, and these are excellent emails that Dr. Kyle has written, uh, and he's generous enough to share those with our clients so that they can kind of tweak for their own patient base. But the point being is, um, and radio, you know, being able to saturate your market with your message, uh, and it's not, you know, it's not like a Always trying to get them to come in. It's you're just you're treat the cause. We're going to share good quality information so that patients can it can really better their lives, and then they see you as an expert, and then and then they come in when they're ready. So I love that really strong foundation for me. Let's see. So my first coach was Dr. Charlie Ward. Who I'm he? I think he was pretty darn well known, and he was. I love Charlie Ward. I mean, he was. He had a great heart. Unfortunately, he's passed away. But he had. He was a great coach, and I that was early on in my career. I think that was 2008. I was with him for about a year, and it was pure mark. Sorry, pure. Um, chiropractic coaching. That was before I got into niches. I was still an associate. Um, but there was so much value. I'd go to his seminars. There'd probably be, I don't know, maybe 100 doctors in the room. He had a big coaching practice. I mean, he was, he was successful. We talked about a couple times a week, and every time we jumped on the phone, he was like shuffling his papers trying to find my file. It's kind of funny. But anyways, Um, I think what I learned from Dr. Ward was, um, I don't know what I learned from Dr. Ward. I don't know that I learned a lot from Dr. Ward. I'll be totally honest with you. I did. I really did like him though. I don't know why. I just, he, he just was a, he just was a great guy. Um, he had some good systems, right? I think he had some good systems. Um, but there wasn't anything that I get, not like what you, Dr. Kyle, like really stood out like a key thing. Um, You know, honestly, it was one of the programs where you get this big, like, big folder or like binder of stuff, right? Which I never really— it's like, it seems it's pretty great in the beginning. You're like, oh, all this stuff. But it usually gathers dust. So that's why I've never done that personally. But anyways, it was a good experience and a good introduction to, you know, The coaching experience and relationship because I have always believed in it. You know, if you look at, you know, professional athletes or any athletes at any level, they have a coach. CEOs and C-suite executives have coaches. Actors have coaches. Like, pretty much anyone at a— playing at a very high level have— has a coach or consultant at some point, if not always. My next coach was Dr. Brightenmoser, Eric Brightenmoser. Who, by the way, Dr. Kyle, do you know who he is?

I know of him. I do not know much about him though. I've heard of him.

Yeah, so he— his, his is Practice Wealth. So here's an interesting story that Dr. Braddock told me. Dr. Eric apparently— well, I'm not going to go in anyways. I'm not going to go into some of this other stuff, but he moved to Switzerland and he has a bunker. And, uh, for like a doomsday bunker. Apparently it's like 30,000 square feet. Um, and he was on the news for it or something like that. It was like, like Dr. Braddock, uh, was, uh, Dr. Braddock owns Genesis, which has like 50 locations of decompression. But anyways, uh, I saw him at Matt Loop's thing, uh, summit that I hosted, or not hosted, uh, sponsored. And, um, he was, he was watching the news and all of a sudden, and it was this thing on like doomsday bunkers, and all of a sudden Dr. Eric walked out of his doomsday bunker. Apparently, Dr. Eric decided not to pay taxes in the US and had to leave. But point being, Dr. Eric changed my career, saved my career, actually, and was one of the really the one of the main reasons I went into coaching myself was because he's the one that said, Dr. Vince, because he's got this accent, right? Dr. Vince, there's riches in niches. And you're dying. You're dying on the vine, Dr. Vince. And I was. And he's like, you got to go into neuropathy.

Wow.

the— so he's like, go, you know, coach with my friends. So he connected me with my 3rd coach, Dr. Joe DiDuro, and that was specifically for neuropathy. And that was my, um, experience. We did have— we did hire a decompression— now I just remember this— we did hire a decompression coach, um, in 2012, and Gosh, it was called Decompression Flight School. It's a really good program. Again, a bunch of, you know, a big binder and a bunch of CDs, but there it was really good information. This doctor, I can't remember his name. I feel bad, but he has since passed away as well. Um, but, uh, that— gosh, I wish I, I knew his name because he was, uh, he had a really good program. But anyways, that really helped us on the decompression side.

Cool.

Um, so as you can see from me and Kyle, is there with With the coaches that we really got a lot out of, it was like kind of one big thing, right? With your first coach, you got stats. With your second coach, you got creating a patient, an exceptional patient experience. With your third coach, you got, hey, get into marketing. For me, it was like, you know, one coach shifted me into niche-based services, and then the next coach taught me how to do the niche-based services. So So, yeah. So, that's, that's, I think, an interesting little timeline of each of our careers. So, let's go into what we consider the benefits of having a coach. So, Dr. Kyle, what, what, what do you— what are your top 3, would you say?

Well, definitely, I think the biggest thing, if you're, if you're looking to— I want to grow my practice, I'm interested in coaching, but you don't have one. You know, a lot of us maybe intuitively know the things that we need to do. We need to do more marketing, or we need to learn more technique, or we need to get better staff. And but we just talk about it. We don't do it. What does a coach do? They hold you accountable.

Yeah.

That, that's the bottom line. And because you, you know, you're checking in with them weekly, or at least monthly for sure. And they're going to ask you, hey Kyle, we talked last time about such and such. How you doing on that? And the last thing you want to say is, oh, I haven't done anything yet, or I'm getting to it. But no, you know, you're paying this coach money and you want to, in a sense, you want to perform for them because you know they're They're holding you accountable. They're holding you to a higher standard. And sometimes, you know, we're our own worst enemy and we need a little, what I sometimes call somebody to light a fire under our butt and, and get us to do something. That's true. So accountability is a big one. I don't know if you would agree with that, Dr. Vince, but I think that's huge.

I totally agree. I think a lot of times we will be take more action and be more accountable when it— when we're having to report to someone else versus ourselves. And I know that even like, even in other relationships, like if you're trying to quit a bad habit, say you're trying to quit smoking or something like that, if you tell someone, a friend or family member or someone that you care about, hey, I'm going to do this, your likelihood of actually accomplishing it goes up because you don't want to disappoint them. Versus it's like we're we're more open and okay with disappointing ourselves. Like if we we're trying to keep ourselves accountable, so I think accountability is huge. I don't think it you know it's the end all be all because I you know I think that's hard for doctors to wrap their head around and get like a maybe an ROI number in their head. But it should be part of any coaching relationship, obviously. And, um, you know, because what got you to where you're at now will not get you to where you want to go. And I'd heard that saying a long time ago, and it made a ton of sense. In fact, I was just talking to a doctor today. He's doing $50,000 a month. He wants to go to $100,000 a month. Well, I don't know if I can do that ROF. I'm like, Doc, all I'm telling you is it works. And what got you to $50,000 a month will not get you to $100,000 a month. because his close rate was 20% and he was doing a 45-second ROF, right? And I'm like, well, that's why your close rate's so low. I'm surprised it's even 20%. So, um, so anyway, the point being is accountability is huge. My, my, uh, another top benefit in my mind would be following a proven model.

Hmm.

You know, because every— the most accomplished doctors I've talked to always say, oh yeah, I've had coaches in the past, and they've taught them something, right? They've followed their model to install something in their office, to do something specific. For instance, like for us, like how to add and grow decompression. We have a very specific model and process to follow. And when you follow that, the results follow. And I think the benefit from that is not having to figure it out on your own, right? Which costs time and money.

Which then leads to the next thing, which is basically getting there quicker.

100%.

And, you know, if you are under a coach that's been in the trenches, They, they, they've scaled their practice. They know how to get to a million-dollar practice or beyond, and you're sitting at $200,000 or $300,000 a year or $500,000, whatever. Why, why in a sense go through the pain of trying to figure out all the things that you need to do to get there when you can just go right to a source Who is interested in helping you to get there and help you to avoid pitfalls and, and show you, like he's— Dr. Vince said, a proven model that'll get you from A to Z quicker. So you can jump from, like we were able to— it took me nearly 20 years to get to $50,000 a month, but it took me less than 4 years to get from $50,000 to $100,000. And that was just because I was under the coaching and training of somebody that had done that. And so, it sped up the process exponentially. And so, that's a huge thing. Any other things on that, Dr. Vince?

Yeah, I heard this saying that I really like, speed— money loves speed and wealth loves time. And what, what the, the meaning behind that is, if you can take action quickly, um, then you can get quick results and you can figure out what's working and what's not. Do more of what's working and less of what's not. And I know that sounds kind of obvious, but, you know, we have doctors like Dr. Cornejo. I mean, he went from $30,000 a month to $75,000 a month in 12 months, right?

Wow.

And then he just had his best month in September. It's at $85K a month. Dr. Bergtold doubled his practice from 45 to 90 in like 4 months. So does it always happen that fast? No, right? Can it? 100% if you're doing the right thing. So money loves speed. And what that— the, the pro— the point with that is if you are able to, especially with high-ticket niches, figure out how to do them, how to present them, and how to get the results right— in other words, you have the protocol, you can close and you can deliver results, and you can do that quickly and drive in new patients in your office, well, that money loves speed. You're gonna, you're gonna be rewarded for that. Wealth loves time. And what that means is building wealth, true wealth over time, is where you get like compound interest and, and you can pour into investments. Um, that's, that's more of a time-based thing. Uh, and so, you know, I think Speed is key because who wants to grind away for the next decade of your life and practice when you can change your life in a year? So, I think that leads us into some good questions, Doc, that you were bringing up. How do you choose the right coach? So, by the way, top 3, we were talking about top 3 benefits, right? Accountability, following a proven model, and speed. What are some, um, what are your thoughts on, you know, how do you choose the right coach for you, Doc?

Well, every time I went through a process of choosing a coach, I did my— I did research.

That's—

I'm a little more methodical that way. But I, you know, nowadays all coaches are putting out video content on their YouTube channel or through Facebook or emails, and they have websites. You can, you can spend a fair amount of time really researching that person before you even talk to them and to see if, if they could potentially be a good fit for you. And there are some coaches out there that focus on different aspects. If you're, if you're looking for the high volume thing in chiropractic, well, there's a whole pile of coaches for that. If you're looking to grow things like niches though, then you're down to a very small group that specializes in that. And so you have to determine what you're, you're looking for, what your goals are, do your research and find that out. And then that's when you maybe would set up a one-on-one with a coach and see if your, your goals coincide with what they are, what they can offer. And, you know, sometimes you just resonate with somebody, and you can know that usually within minutes of a conversation. So I would do your due diligence to research a potential coach, and then within those first few minutes, if you're resonating, and, you know, I'm a believer, so I'd bathe every decision in prayer. But those are things that I personally do. and have over the years in picking the right coach or decide which one to go with. Any thoughts on that, Dr. Vince?

Well, I, of course, I'm a believer as well, and I, I really love that saying, bathing it in prayer. That's really— I've never heard that before, and I just— that's a kind of a beautiful phrase. I would encourage the same. One thing that, like Dr. Kyle was saying, is there is a lot of material out there for Most coaches— I, I know if you look at my YouTube channel, I mean, we have hundreds of hours of training on there, and you almost don't even need to hire me. I mean, there is so much training on there, I should probably take some of it down. But the point being is I get doctors that say, oh man, I watched all your videos, you're the guy for me. You know, I, this is— I've thought about this, sometimes I prayed about this, um, this is exactly what I want to do, and I seem to resonate with you. So I really like that word that you use there too, Dr. Cowell. Um, and what I would encourage is, is probably do it, uh, with an outcome-based focus versus, well, I want to grow my practice. That's too vague. There's— because now you can find some clinics or some coaches that, you know, they're gonna, you know, have a more of a broad approach. But I would probably tell you that if you evaluate your practice, you could probably figure out what is the one thing holding you back. Right. Is it, is it volume of new patients? Is it being able to treat a high volume of patients? Is it doing cash services? Is it doing like a niche like decompression or neuropathy? But if you had a clear outcome and if you could find a coach to, to— so because that way it's a very one-to-one, hey, I'm going to hire a coach because I want to add decompression and I want to, you know, grow that to $30,000 additional revenue per month in cash. And if I can hire this coach and I can accomplish that, then I know it's a successful outcome. I like that kind of outcome-based approach to choosing a coach because then you can specialize, right? If you say, hey, I need to, I need to be a better communicator. Well, there's coaches that that's all they really focus on is patient communication. Like, I think Josh Wagner, that's his. He's really into, into patient communication. Um, and then obviously with niches, like, hey, that's what we specialize in, is helping doctors add, you know, these high-value cash services. So I would look for an outcome-based approach versus, hey, I just want to hire a coach to grow my practice. Um, another good question you brought up, Dr. Kyle, is how long should you give it?

Yeah, I think, you know, some, some doctors, I think, hold coaches almost to an impossible position. I mean, they think, they think within a month I should You know, waiting list practice and you know doubling my practice. And you know, coaches are human just like you and I are. And that anybody and they just you if you sign up for a program, I feel you got to give it a year. You got to give it about a year to really be able to learn what your coach has to teach, to have the time necessary to implement. And to, you know, develop strategies and then implement and then be able to measure the changes over a full calendar year. I think if you're going into a coaching situation where you're like, I'm going to give it a month or two and see how it goes, I think you're wasting your time and you're probably wasting your potential coach's time too. So I'm pretty, pretty firm on that. You got to give it at least a year. And there might be some variability in that, you know, what other people feel, but that's kind of where I'm at, is that a year is the minimum. What are your thoughts on that, Doc?

Well, actually, we're aligned on that because that's what we do in our specialized practices. We do 12-month programs. And I like that timeframe because if you look at like, you know, like There's DCOA, there's Blueprint. They're like 18 months to 3 years. And, you know, we not— I mean, look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the programs. I'm just saying I've talked to clients and they wish they weren't locked into that long of a contract, right? So I picked 12 months because just like we want to be patient-centered, I like to be client-centered. And at the same time, though, I don't want to set us up for failure and say, oh, we're going to work together for 3 months or 6 months. There's just not enough time. Right? Versus 12 months, you can accomplish a lot in 12 months, right? You can, if you have no niche, right, you can pick equipment. Well, first you can pick your niche, then you can pick the equipment. You can add it into the office, you can train up, uh, the staff, you can get your protocols, and you can, and have that thing pumping out, you know, $20,000, $30,000 a month easily within 12 months. And so you can accomplish a lot in that time frame. And it also kind of gives you an opportunity to kind of like just catch your breath a little bit. In other words, like if you try to do too much in, in like a 1 to 3 month timeframe, it's just like, oh, I'm trying to squeeze all this in this, this 90 day timeframe. It's just like, look, we're trying to change your life and your practice, right? For the, for the, for the rest of your career, we're trying to add a service that will serve your patients. Will grow your revenue significantly, will pad your retirement, will make your practice more valuable when you want to sell it. We're— the goal is to do all these things, and so you need a little bit of time to implement that, but the long-term benefits are huge and the ROI is massive. So, I like the 12-month timeframe. A lot of our doctors continue on. Dr. Kyle's been with us for 4 years. We have doctors for 5 years and 3 years. And, um, it, you know, it's because they're continuing to get value. But you got to give it a good shake. And that's why, you know, like Dr. Kyle was saying, you got to resonate with the individual.

100%.

Like, if you don't— if you, if you're kind of hearing how they're talk— talking, um, like one doctor was telling me he was at a boot camp this, um, I'm not going to say who it was, but he didn't resonate with how they were portraying themselves, you know. And he's like, I don't want to be like these guys. I, I think they're cheesy and slimy, and I don't want to— that's not what I— that's not how I want to be portrayed. Um, and so no, I'm not going to join that group.

Yeah, couldn't agree more. And, uh, if you find the right coach that you can connect with and you can have some alignment in your thinking processes, it's It sometimes is amazing what you can, what can be accomplished in a relatively short time. And one of the final things I would say about coaching, we're, you know, we're talking about coaching for chiropractic or business and stuff, but I actually have a, uh, I guess what I would call a spiritual slash advisor that, that helps me in that area of my life, a coach. And I have a Personal fitness coach that holds me to some degree of accountability too, and and keeping me from getting lazy. And so there's other aspects. And like Dr. Vince said at the beginning, all high-end performing people just about that you'll if you ask them that they have some type of coaching in their life. And of course we visibly see that with athletes, but. Most high-performing business people also have coaches. They didn't— very few do it totally on their own. And so I think this message should resonate with a lot of people. Any other questions they should ask, Doc, or did we cover that pretty well?

I think, I think we covered that pretty well. I mean, I think Just quickly revisiting the timeframe, like, because I have coaches as well, and at the beginning of this year, in the first quarter, I invested $25,000 into a business coach, um, but it was a 90-day thing, and it was— I felt very rushed to try to accomplish a lot in that short amount of time. And so, you know, I'm always investing in myself. I mean, I, I really kind of view And I think we should all view ourselves as the million-dollar racehorse, right? So we should be having coaches and resources in each area of our life. I mean, I have a, I have a obviously business coach, I have a nutrition coach, I have got a golf coach, an exercise coach as well. So because I get a lot of value out of it. But yeah, I just think you need to have a fair amount of time to, to be able to implement what they are going to recommend for you. But, um, but yeah, I think those questions that we talked about, right? How to choose the right coach, how long you should give it. And then the— oh, the last thing is, is, was what are your responsibilities in the relationship? That, that was the last one. So, um, let's hear your thoughts on that because I think that's super important as well.

Well, the responsibilities, I think, flows out of the accountability. I mean, if, if you're going to spend the bucks to get a coach, one, you have to come into a relationship with that, that you're willing to put in the work.

100%.

And, and otherwise, a coach can give you all these wonderful strategies, ideas, inspiration, and ultimately nothing will happen unless you implement. And so, you, you know, if you're expecting your coach to do the implementation for you or to fix every problem and you're just gonna take their— you're just gonna listen to their advice but not implement it, it's just not going to get you anywhere. So if you really want to— no, nobody that's ever been success— well, I shouldn't say nobody, very few people that have been successful in life that you can divorce hard work from the equation. You have to be willing to bust your butt and to Put in the work and the blood, sweat, and tears that it takes to make things happen and to be have success. And if you're if you're not willing to do that, don't waste your time signing up with the coach and don't waste their time either would be what I would say. A little bit blunt, but but that's the bottom line is you you have to be personally responsible too. do what you need to do and what they're asking you to implement.

I couldn't agree more. You know, I feel like we're kind of sold— like marketing, um, some of the, the kind of, uh, hooks or strategies is, is, is essentially, hey, we're going to help you make money and you're gonna basically— there's an easy button and we figure out the secret way to do it and it's, uh, basically no work on your part. And It just, it, it's, it's just not the reality. I just, I don't know anyone that's been, that is or has been super successful that did not work hard to get there. You know, if you woke up on third base because you inherited a bunch of money, totally different story. But if you're going to earn your own money and you're going to change your life, you got to put in the work. You know, um, I was listening to this podcast by Alex Hormozi. He's an interesting influencer in the business space. And this, what this message really resonated with me because he's, he, he's, he's a huge proponent of just putting in the work. And, you know, for me, it's like, hey, my— at the very least, over the next decade, like, my plan is not to slow down. I actually want to work harder than I've ever worked in my life because I don't want to leave anything left in the tank, you know. I don't want to ever have to look back and be like, it didn't happen because I didn't work hard enough, you know. So I'm not saying that you have to take that attitude. I'm not saying that you have to always work hard, but to implement systems, to get things installed, to become an expert so that you can actually deliver the results, you are going to have to put in the work. And I don't care what coaching or consulting company or marketing company that says, hey, we have some newfangled thing and it's the easy button and, you know, it's a secret and you're not going to get to learn it until you sign up. But that's— you're not going to work hard at all to get this massive success. They're just selling you the pipe dream. And if you're falling for that, unfortunately, that's kind of your fault. You know, you should know that to, to achieve anything significant in life, you're going to have to put in the work. And you know what? That's how it should be. Because if it was easy, everyone would do it and everyone would be successful.

Amen to that. And the, the final thing I would say about that is if you work hard To— and do it the right way, it just feels good.

Yeah.

It just feels good. And it brings peace within versus trying to skip corners and to get-rich-quick schemes and trying to find loopholes and shortcuts. It's, you know, if you do it the right way, it's just very soul satisfying, I guess, is how I would phrase it. And you can, as I like to say, you can put your head on the pillow at night and sleep soundly and not have that little thing in the back of your head saying, I didn't do this right, or that, that gut feeling that tells you something's off. And so—

100%. 100%. I think that's a great way to end and wise words. So I hope— I think this was— we covered that pretty decent, right? I'm sure there's some other aspects of hiring a coach or finding a coach that you could kind of dive into. But I think from a broad-based perspective, and here's my final thing is like, look, whether it's $10,000 or $20,000, it's like, it's hard to not make money on that. I mean, it really is. I mean, good God. You know, our doctors are getting a massive return on their investment, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? I mean, you're going to have to take some risk. And like that $25K investment I made in the first quarter, you know, did I get a significant— did I get any ROI on it? I don't think so. But do I regret it? No, because I learned what I Do not want to do what I do not need and what doesn't work for me. So I think if you take this kind of win or learn attitude, then you always win. You know. So anyways, that that's what works for me.

Win or learn. I like that. And that's something you've taught me over the years too. And because you're not always going to get wins.

Nope.

But but in defeat. In the, in the trials and tribulations that we all go through in this world, you gotta, you gotta take something from it, and one of them is learning.

Well said, my friend. So let's wrap it up there, guys. Well, we hope that this has been helpful for you. Again, um, please subscribe on whatever channel that you're on, whether it's Spotify or Apple. Um, and again, if you got value out of this, uh, share it with a friend or a colleague. You know, we're trying to impact our profession in a positive way. And, you know, that's why we're doing these podcasts, and we hope it's valuable. And if it is, if you can share it, that will help grow the podcast so that we'll know it's working, right? And we're excited about this. This is fun for us. And so, Dr. Kyle, any parting words?

Fun is the operative word there. We're having fun. And we want to, just as the name of the podcast is Practice Builders Podcast, we want you to grow because we're excited about growth. And, you know, if we can inspire some docs and move our profession forward and elevate it, that's, uh, at the end of the day, that we've done a good thing.

100%. Okay, so that's— I gotta wrap it up for this episode of the Practice Builders Podcast. podcast. I hope everyone has a fantastic rest of your day, and God bless.