A Case for Global DGTL Transformation (ft. Dr. Fatih Mehmet Gul, MD)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Hey, it's Ed here. Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. And what I love particularly about this episode is we Get out of the United States and learn what's happening in other parts of the world because there's so much for us to learn from in the great digital transformation that's happening globally, and in this case, Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. And so super excited to have Dr. Fadi with us. He's the CEO of Dr. Suleiman Faki Hospital, Jeddah. Did I get that right, Dr. Fadi?

It is the best way how you can get it. And thanks for having me. I really appreciate having me here and welcome to this part of the world.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. It's a lovely part of the world. I've been there before, want to get back and learn. I had a terrific experience my first time, so it's definitely on my list to return someday. Now, in terms of when we first met, it's really just online. I've watched you on LinkedIn, and, you know, as a CEO, I'm always trying to learn about leadership. I'm trying to learn what's happening in other countries, and the things that you talk about and the things that you do and you're doing in leadership just caught my eye. And I was like, I want to know more about this leader and his hospital. So that's sort of how we met. But the most important question that we have on Digital Voices, Dr. Fadi, is what songs are on your playlist? What kind of music do you like to listen to?

I have seen this question in the prep document. Then, I mean, look, myself, I can't work without music. I have to always listen something, but it's very difficult to, I mean, spot someone that I listen only. And I'm a person who, I mean, listens all the time, the piano or the calm musics that I have. And I'm more of a playlist guy in the Apple. I mean, wherever I find the good one, I just So it's difficult to spot someone, but I'm a music person. I can say this. I mean, my PA especially, she loves this. Whenever comes for my meeting, waiting with her outside, they also enjoy the music. So I'm a music guy, but very difficult to say someone direct. Sorry for that.

No, no, that's great. No, it's all types. And that's why we asked the question. What about words that you live by or a mantra? Is there something that sort of guides you in your day-to-day and how you lead? And live?

I have it definitely, the humbleness and humility. That is something, it is always the main compass for my work on a daily basis. And I want to live with this roadmap, if I may say, and it is a roadmap for me. And I want my team, my people around me to follow the same path because I believe that's the most important thing in this short life we are all in.

Yeah. I love that. Now, tell us about your accent. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from originally? How did you grow up? How did you get to where you are today basically?

Thank you so much. I myself, I'm Turkish. And then, after having all the education in Turkey, then I I worked in Turkey for a short period and after a good, actually, occasion, I found myself moving to Saudi in year 2005. And since then I have been in the Middle East. The first project where I have been was very interesting because just before that in Istanbul, I was working with an aviation medicine company and then I was leading part of the operation and at a very young age. And most of the teams in my team, actually, they were over 50s, mostly the army retirees. And that was an amazing experience. And then I found myself coming to Jeddah in 2005 as the project manager for the first helicopter ambulance project in the national EMS services. And again, similar, we hired a big team. As you know, all the aviation medicine people, they are the tough people.

Yeah.

And then the pilots, technicians, and the most tough paramedics because you need really the good ones. And then I worked with them for a period together and we delivered the project. And after that, I joined a company here, here in Saudi and started working on several healthcare projects. different social projects. It is a big, big group actually, who is also working in the automobile industry. So they have a different industry of businesses. Until 2015, I was with that group. And then 2015, I joined to the group where I am in now called Fakih Care Group. And then we can just add the website domain in the notes of this episode.

Yeah.

And then they can just go through the website. For Key Care Group is, I mean, a large healthcare group, one of the old ones. We will go to details later. And we operate hospitals, outpatient clinics, and then we have a medical college since 2003. It has been operational. And I joined group as one of the actually medical administration team members looking after the clinic management. We have started operating the outside clinic operations. Until that time, group was operating just the operation within our own hospitals. And then we got a tender and then we have been awarded operating one large clinic. Beside that, the group was expanding and I have been asked to manage part of the expansion. Then we opened 4 large mega clinics. When I say mega clinics, They're the clinics with 40 clinics inside, urgent care center, day surgery, IVF, and then lots of other stuff. Again, I mean, I'm sure we will go to details later. Then at this time, in this period, we were also building a new hospital in Dubai. And then things were going a bit challenging. And I have been asked to move to Dubai and then look after the New baby. I moved there and then completed the construction, commissioned the hospital. And at your part, we did lots of technology investments, lots. I mean, this is, I believe, the smartest hospital I could ever, I mean, count for you. And I will explain you more details again.

Yeah.

Then when we commissioned the hospital, it is a beautiful hospital, everything is going well. And I have been asked, to move back to Jeddah as the CEO of our Jeddah cluster. And at the moment I'm the Jeddah cluster CEO. And then in Jeddah cluster, we have one teaching hospital, 400-bed capacity, medical college, 4 clinics, and under construction, 3 more large clinics. And soon a rehab hospital is coming and one surgical tower. So this is what I'm dealing at the moment. And then I'm a physician. So being a physician and then running this kind of operation, actually a great opportunity, I believe, gives you a great exposure into several things where I really enjoy and I'm surrounded with amazing people. That is what I say always and I learn from them every day. And I really enjoy every day going to my hospital and working with these great people.

Yeah, that's fascinating. I can hear in your voice the passion and the enthusiasm and It's no wonder you've been named a Forbes Top 50 Healthcare Leader, given everything that you've done and so young in your career. Hey, can you compare and contrast Istanbul with Jeddah? So I've been to Istanbul, which I love, been to Riyadh, but how would you compare and contrast? Like, are there things in Istanbul that you miss that aren't there in Jeddah and vice versa?

I think first we should start from the weather. At least in Istanbul, you can have 4 seasons. And then, I mean, you can really enjoy the weather over there. And when you come to Jeddah, it is— my Saudi friends actually, they say that we have 12 months summer and sometimes warm summer, sometimes cold summer, sometimes hot summer. So we really enjoy summer and then sun every day. And then that's the better part. But I have, I mean, met with amazing people in both cities. Both cities are very dynamic, I can say, wakes up very early morning and then never sleeps up to 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock. You can see the people moving around in both cities. And still, I mean, in Jeddah, what I have, what I could say, it is still a city with lots of opportunities. I mean, still, when you look at the number of bed capacity per 1,000 people, still a low number of beds we have here. And we're glad we're seeing lots of new investments now through the transformation projects. And I'm sure this gap will be closed soon. But still, I mean, there are lots of things to do in Jeddah. But I mean, both of them I consider as home. So I have 3 homes actually, Istanbul, Jeddah, and Dubai, I can say.

Wow. Yeah, that's, that's really, that's really neat. And it gives you a great global perspective and understanding, which again is one of the reasons I, I was really wanting you as a guest. So you told us a little bit already about the Solomon, uh, Fakih cluster, as you call it, because it's more than just the 400-bed teaching hospital. It's much more than that. Is there— and you were recently ranked number 1 as a private hospital in, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. How was that achieved? So obviously, it speaks to something great that you're doing in that facility.

Let's start from the early stages of our group. The group was established in 1978. And then when we look at the Fakih Care Group today, we are a kind of a hospital group rather than just one hospital. In 2015, when I joined, we were one hospital at that time. Now, We have 4 hospitals in Saudi Arabia, and then we have 1 large teaching hospital in UAE, in Dubai. So we have 5 hospitals, a number of clinics, medical college, home healthcare arm, the first private ambulance company in the kingdom, and then 1 company where we have the medical distributorship deals and the other thing for the— actually— materials, and then consumable dealing company. So we can definitely say that today our group has an ecosystem offering all the solutions, whatever is required. So that is our group. But the hospital, the flagship hospital in the group is located in Jeddah city, which is the main hospital for the last 46 years. This hospital, as you say, based on the last NPS survey, Net Promoter Score survey, has been actually selected as the top first brand for the private healthcare business. We're all, I mean, glad with that one, but I'll tell you another thing. In 2022 and in 2023, in 2 years in a row, we have been selected as the best hospital as listed by Newsweek. So you know that Newsweek has the global hospital lists and then they have also different lists in US. They recently started the global hospital list in Saudi Arabia. We're the top first actually private hospital over there and the best hospital in that list. So this talks all together and it shows what kind of operation we do. And how did we become like that one? Our group actually blends lots of things. It starts with the quality and we believe in quality very much. And when I say quality, I could define it with the international accreditations we have. We have definitely the JCI. Our labs are with the CAP accreditation. We have AABB for the blood bank. We have LEED certification for our buildings as the environmental friendly buildings. But on top of that, I'll tell you one thing. I mean, from US, you are very much familiar. We are a Magnet hospital.

Oh yeah.

So having the Magnet for your nursing services and working with NDNQI and then ANCC and then the other things. Another easy stuff. So we have achieved all these quality works together with the international verifications. And on top of that, when I talk about the innovation, you can see lots of innovation stories from very early ages of our hospital. In 1984, our hospital was the first IVF center in Saudi Arabia. IVF, I mean, Today, if you want to start an IVF lab, I think it's very easy stuff. I mean, you will buy the software, get the quite, I mean, IVF lab, the equipment and the other thing. Talent is available, hire them and start. Today it's easy. Think about '84. '84, our group has started the first IVF business. And I mean, when you look at the first IVF stories in the science, it's not that far. And our group achieved that one. In '85, we had the first kidney transplant in our hospital. In 1990, first heart transplant program. Since then, our hospital is a transplant hospital. So when you blend the innovation together with the quality and the obsession on the operational excellence, I think this is the recipe what makes you the best hospital in the kingdom.

No, that's super impressive. No doubt about it. So You must have created some culture to make this happen. I understand the quality and the focus on innovation and operational excellence, but it takes a lot of leadership and culture. What are some of the things from a culture point of view that you have infused along with your team to bring about this success? Because it just doesn't happen on its own.

Ed, when you look at Saudi Arabia or the healthcare operations in the Middle East, you will see the most diversified communities working together and offering the services. We have a very diversified manpower in our operations. So the first thing to bring all these people together is to start defining your operational policies. We have started from that point. So then we have policies which is easy for all these different kind of people coming to operation to apply because we have nurses from India, Nurses from Eastern Europe, nurses from Egypt, nurses from Philippines, nurses from Malaysia, Indonesia. So can you imagine bringing all these different schools together and expecting them to work together on the same roadmap? It's not an easy thing. So we have started from that. On top of that, you have to also hire your medical staff from these diversified resources. And our doctors are all coming from different schools. The best way to bring all these people together is to create the right system for them where they can read, learn, and apply in the operation. Then you can also just check their performances on the same method. So this way we have started, but one thing is important. All these people, when they come together under one umbrella, you want them, I mean, regardless from where they come, you want them to feel at home.

Yeah.

And from that aspect, we have, several programs, the culture programs in our organization. We celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Eid, we celebrate Diwali, we celebrate any kind of different cultural festivals to bring people together. In our hospital every month, thanks to our, I mean, amazing, brilliant chef, he has a program. He makes a country theme every month for one country. And not just about the food. You can see, I mean, in the staff cafeteria, all the butlers and the people within this country theme costumes, and then the other thing where it adds the flavor into it. So then starting from this, we try to listen to our people and then we want them to feel at home. And then we want them to give their best to the patients. And we explain this diverse— diversified manpower and then operation model to our patients as well. I mean, we have a patient committee where we have also patients from different diversified communities because it's not just about our hospital. When you look at the Middle East, our community, our clientele are all coming from different nationalities and you have to also be ready to answer their demand. In our hospitals in Dubai, let's say, every day we have at least 4 different cuisines. I mean, these cuisines are the Arab cuisine, the Indian cuisine, Chinese cuisine, and based on the numbers, sometimes even from different nationality cuisines. So then you have to be ready to answer all these demands. Then your culture will be ready inside and outside together.

Yeah, that's beautifully stated. Something I think we can all learn from. And I love the example that you gave. I know it's only one of many that you do. But it, it's, it's meaningful. Like the chef that each month is a different country, and it's not just the food necessarily, but the decor and how they dress and things like that. That's, that, that's really actionable type of things for culture. And, and I think, you know, without having been there myself and, and knowing for super long, that, that's what leads, helps lead to everything you talked about, all the accomplishments, right? The quality, the Magnet designation. the operational excellence is having that sort of culture that you build and you have to be intentional about. I could go on the rest of the time just talking about culture and leadership, but I have to get in a little bit of tech because you're a CEO.

Sure.

I love to hear CEO perspectives on tech and obviously very tech advanced, especially the facility where you served in Dubai that you mentioned. So is technology digital a competitive differentiator, or can it be? Or how do you look at it? Maybe you don't look at it in terms of competition at all. How do you look at tech and digital?

I'll tell you one thing. When we define our group, the healthcare group, we have 3 pillars. The first pillar in our operation is called academic care. And then the second pillar is technology-enabled care. And the third one is integrated care. So technology is already one of the 3 pillars of our operations. And we always believe that technology is an enabler for our caregivers to provide better care and to spend more time with our patients and at the end have better efficiency with the technology solutions. We always look and to, I mean, try to be the pioneer when it comes to the technology investments. And not just today. I mean, today, thanks to COVID, everyone became techno-savvy, but we were techno-savvy for many years. I mean, when I look at the history of our group, the first CT, only 16 slides, can you imagine?

Yeah.

Has been procured by our group. And then they brought this to the service and it is still in my hospital. I mean, we're just keeping it For a good memory. 16 slides. So then the first MRI, the first PET CT has been offered always by our hospital to the patients. And today I'll tell you one thing which is very important. The first Da Vinci robotic surgery device. So we bought it as the first private hospital in Saudi Arabia and today it is in service. So technology. is definitely not a competitor, but it is an enabler making our life easier every day.

Oh, that's fantastic. And the fact that tech is sort of embedded in your overall strategy, like you said, of the 3 different pillars. How does your facility leverage technology in terms of patient experience? So we talked a lot about examples that help the clinician and the patient, obviously, with their quality and their outcomes. But for patient experience directly, is there anything that you do in that regard?

A lot, a lot. But then, as we were just discussing about the HIMSS and then Arab Health and then the other— today I received this question from many people. I mean, my shareholders, they ask this question. Our patients, they ask questions. Our clinicians, they also ask questions. What do we do for the patient experience and what kind of technology we get? And how do you select the technology when it comes to the investment? Because at the end of the day, I don't have an unlimited check. I have an investment budget that I have to use in the best way. And I have to make my patients happy by getting the solutions. So the formula is like this one. Whenever we look at the digital health or technology investment, we first drove the patient journey and then we just identified the patient's touchpoints from home back to home. So the patient is at home. What does this patient need? So then we just identify, okay, I'm a patient today. We know very well 92% of patients, they go to Google before they select any kind of healthcare services. So then we just want to create information where we can explain to our patients. And then we put this on a website which is compatible with this kind of requirements of Google. And then we can just implement this over there. When people come to my website, it is time to grab their attention, explain them the right information, then put over there an instant messaging solution. Then we can simply communicate with our patients and make an easy booking platform over there. And if possible, create a digital portal for my patient. Up to that point, we have managed everything. It is all available with us. Then when the patient leaves the home driving to our hospital, in our mobile application, we just confirm the booking and next to it we give them a QR code. With this QR code, when you come to the hospital, the parking facility will simply open the bar. When you show this QR code to the machine, then your parking slot is reserved and you can park. When you walk into the hospital, at the moment we're investing another— on another solution, which is the indoor navigation.

Yeah.

We want you to make your payment for your deductible for the insurance on the mobile application, which is at the moment happening. People pay when they walk into the hospital. We want them to walk together with mobile application so they can walk up to the doctor's clinic wherever his or her doctor is. And without even passing by the reception, they can walk into the doctor's room. But there is one other point here, which is the queuing system, because there are other people waiting over there in the waiting area. So what's the solution? We have created a self-check-in button. So when you walk into the hospital, you come in front of your doctor's clinic, there's a waiting area. You just click the button saying that I am here. Once you click at your button, queuing system immediately takes you to the front because you are on time arriving there for your, I mean, appointment time. And we don't want you to wait more. Then you can walk inside the clinic and you can meet with your physician. So touchpoints are the main things what we have identified. And then we started making investments for these touchpoints. to make the patient's life easy. After that, for the lab services. After that, we made investment together with Apple. We made an investment in Dubai for our patient infotainment system in the patient room. And we're proud with this one.

Yeah.

So we made lots of investments to feel what our patients want and what— where our patients suffer to make their life easy. So I believe we have a very good system when it comes to the patient experience services.

Yeah. Oh yeah. What you described just now, I don't know that— I can't think of— not that I know all of them, but I don't know any organization today that has sort of that end-to-end that you spoke about. So that's really cool. There's so much more I want to get into. We'll have to do a second episode someday because 'Cause I'm leaving some things behind. I don't want to, but I do wanna get to some leadership questions 'cause I'm so fascinated by your leadership. How do you balance the needs? Obviously, you've got the patients, which you already spoke about. You have this patient committee and the patients, right? There are certain things they want. Then you have clinicians, your medical staff, who require different things, and the organization requires different things. How do you balance all that?

I have several mentors. One of them is definitely my chairman. For the last 10 years, I have been working with him and then we sit and discuss lots of things. Then I learned lots of things from him. He's Dr. Mazen Faki. And I have another mentor in UK, Keith Haigh. He is actually one of the gurus from the Bupa Hospitals, HCA, and then lastly, this Cleveland Clinic, and now he's helping me a lot. I can say the first thing what I hear from my mentors is always the stakeholder engagement and stakeholder management. And what I did actually when I took first time the CEO position seven years ago almost from my Dubai journey, I created a stakeholder map within my stakeholder map. I started from my shareholders. And then my direct reports, then the chairpersons, and then the physicians and the other middle management team, which are the internal stakeholders that I have. Then I created another chapter over there, the outsider stakeholders. These are suppliers, government authority, and then other competitor hospitals. And then other industry leaders that I could sit with them and I could discuss up to the insurance providers and other suppliers, all of them. So then I created a timeline for this. With these people I should meet in a year this much of time, with my shareholder every quarter, with my doctors at least one meeting with all my physicians in every 6-month period. Then with my direct reporters, I meet with them every week. And then definitely the other outside stakeholders with the insurance providers and others, I have a timeline over there. The best thing what I have learned within this period is to listen. Once we can manage to listen to our stakeholders, actually they're going to give you all these things. The secret is waiting with these stakeholders. If you don't sit and discuss things with your physician, your physician will never come to you to give this gift.

Yes.

You should go and then you should meet with them. Ed, what happened when I started this stakeholder, I was very happy. And one day I reported this to my mentor and I told them, oh, you know what? I started my meetings with the physicians and then that's amazing happening at the moment. And in each meeting, physicians are telling me something, initiatives, And I implement them. Oh, it's going beautiful. And my mentor asked me one question. He asked me, Fatih, okay, where do you meet with them? I told him, yeah, I asked my PA, she gives an appointment and they come and meet me. He said, no, no, no, you're making things wrong. I said, why? I mean, I meet with them. He said, no, you should not give them this kind of appointment. You should go and visit them in their clinics, sit in front of your physician and listen to your physicians in their clinics. and sit at the chair of the patient and listen to them. I started that one. And I have the— also on top of that, I have the lunch, the CEO lunch every week. I meet with at least 5 family members from our hospital from different positions: allied health, security, receptionists, technicians, I mean, other technicians, admin, finance. So then I always open my ear. and try to listen to them. These people, these stakeholders, actually, they have lots of ideas and they have— they are the best people who understand what's happening in these front lines. And if you can just sit with them, you don't need to, I mean, have rocket science from your CEO room, I guess. So then I recommend this to all my, I mean, colleagues and peers who are dealing with the leadership. in their organizations. And healthcare itself, it's a very sophisticated business. We're operating a large kitchen in the hospital, hotel in the hospital, school in the hospital, factory in the hospital, lots of things under one umbrella, a technology company. We are the most technological company when you compare with the other industries. For us, as the CEO, it's not easy for you to understand all these things unless, I mean, you sit with these people. and spend some time, then you will be able to get that. And, I believe that's the best way. I sit together with them, I sit in front of them and learn from them. I ask them, please teach me, teach me what the problem is, and they teach me.

Dr. Fadi, that goes back to how we started, which was about humility and being a humble leader. And, everything that you've spoken about, especially in this last question around leadership, Really addresses that and showcases how you do that. And it's been fascinating. So there's no wonder that I was attracted to you via LinkedIn and all the things that you were messaging and doing in your organization, because a lot of it just resonates, you know, with, with who I am and, and, and, and much of our audience. We, we covered a lot of different things along this, uh, journey or in our 30 minutes together. And there's just— I have 2 pages of notes. It's too much to summarize. So I wanted to leave you with the last word. Is there something that we touched on that you want to go a little deeper or maybe something that we missed?

Well, I mean, since most of the people I'm sure listening to this episode are going to be from the healthcare industry, the only thing what I could share with them, healthcare is an area where you can only work if you have passion to help people. Otherwise, it is a very difficult business for some people who doesn't share this passion. And once you have this passion, you really want to, I mean, help to your patient. When I was working as the bedside physician, I was very happy to listen my patients and see the smile on their faces. Then after that, I started applying the same thing, same passion to other people, to my supplier, to insurance provider, to technology provider, to my MEP provider and the others. I think it is all about this passion where we should simply try to get the best connection with the people and listen to them and try to be part of their journey. Because most of the time what I notice, people are not able to catch the same engagement So then neither at the patient side nor at the employee side, it doesn't really give you the full energy. So my only point, what I could say to my peers, let's just enjoy this passion and let's try to get the best engagement and it will be a joy. I mean, every day morning I open my office at 7 o'clock with a big joy. I really enjoy what I do. I love my job. And then I see people. I walk the ground in my executive rounds. I meet with patients, I meet with children, elder people, and then everyone. So then each of such connections actually are an opportunity for us to learn. And then once we apply whatever we hear from the people, I believe we will be the best leader. And it is not rocket science.

Yeah.

So healthcare business is a consumer business. We should just understand our consumer. We should just understand our people. And I'm sure it will be a wonderful operation at the end. Wherever you do this, either in Saudi or UAE or US or UK, it's the same business, what we love.

Dr. Fadi, that was an excellent way to end our episode of Digital Voices. Thanks again for being our guest.

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

All right, that wraps up another edition of Digital Voices. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.