Balancing Stakeholder Needs in Healthcare (ft. Dr. Greg Rosencrance)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Hey, it's Ed Marx. Thank you for joining Digital Voices. This is another one of those fun episodes because it's with a friend and someone who I've worked with for quite some time, and I'll get into that in a minute. So I just want to go straight to the introduction. So Dr. Greg Rosenkranz, President and CEO, WVU Medicine Thomas Hospitals, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thank you, Ed, and thanks for having me on today.

Yeah, it's gonna be great because I love on Digital Voices that we can talk to CEOs and leaders and clinicians who understand digital transformation, embrace technology and those sort of things. And that kind of leads me right into how we first met. And so we were both at the Cleveland Clinic, and you were one of the chairs of the institute, and you were a leader in all things digital. And so I really gravitated towards you because sometimes you don't find that, you know, in different organizations. There's not this understanding. And I just love the fact you were like pushing— you were ahead of us. So, Greg, you were like pushing IT. You were ahead of us. You were thinking of and doing cool programs that, that I was like, oh, I love this. And it was just great. So I've always appreciated serving with you and just think the world of you. So that's sort of how we first met up. And then you moved on to lead one of our other hospitals, I think, down in Florida, correct?

That's right. I was in Cleveland when we met and worked together as the chair of the Medicine Institute, and then I left for another opportunity within the clinic to take on a new hospital acquisition, Cleveland Clinic Indian River Hospital in Vero Beach, and to help assimilate that into the Cleveland Clinic system. I spent 4 years there, made a lot of great friends.

Wow.

Still have a lot of great friends in Cleveland and throughout, you know, the country now who were with me at the clinic. And I've come home to Charleston, West Virginia to work for WVU Medicine Thomas Hospitals, which is a, 2-hospital system. It's where I grew up. It's where my children, our children live, my wife's family, my family, you know, a lot of friends we grew up with and we came home after a decade. So it's great to be back.

Yeah, we were talking about that earlier, that what an envious position to be in because, you know, a lot of times in our society today, you know, we're so mobile that we move far away and we lose kind of that connection with family and friends, but you, you went back with your high school sweetheart who you married and, and you've got everything right there. Plus you work at a great organization. I mean, life can't get much better than that, right?

It is. I mean, it's, it's, it is the best of all worlds. Um, you know, you can go home again. I'm, I'm here to tell you it is possible to do, and it's fun, right? The connections are, are incredibly, yeah, you know, valuable. They're also incredibly rewarding.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, Greg, the most important question we ask on Digital Voices is what songs are on your playlist? So what kind of music do you like to listen to?

So, you know, and I'll start with a very broad answer and then I'll get specific. I like all genres of music. I like classical music. I like Puccelli. I like symphony. I like classical orchestra music. But when I listen to music to relax and to to not think so much but sort of unwind. You know, my playlist may surprise you a little bit. I like to listen to Santana, you know.

Yeah.

As a grouping of songs, Maria Maria and Black Magic Woman and all of those great, wonderful tunes. I think it's an amazing piece. Earth, Wind& Fire, I think, has a very rhythmic quality to it. September, you know, Sing a Song. That's the Way of the World, all those. And then, you know, a little bit different style than those is Billy Joel. And specifically, you know, he's come out with a new song, Turn the Lights Back On, which is out there now. And I think that and, and his classic hits are really kind of— it's how I unwind and relax. If I really want to think though, I go for the classical music.

Yeah, no, I, I can, I I can relate and get down with, with all those genres. So that's, that's pretty good. I did have a chance to see Carlos Santana in Vegas a few years ago, and it was just great just listening to all of his tunes and his musicianship. I mean, he's an amazing guitarist.

You know, when I was in Florida, we actually had an opportunity. We sponsored Earth, Wind& Fire and Santana. Earth, Wind& Fire was the warm-up band and Santana was the main attraction. So that was fun.

Greg, I thought we were friends. I don't remember getting that. Oh my gosh, that would have been amazing. Um, yeah, well, we could go on there forever, but, uh, what about your life message or mantra? Are there sort of words or quotes that you live by, try to model yourself after?

Yeah, I think there's one, and, you know, I don't really have to think about this too hard. It's actually a Maya Angelou quote. And I, I live by it. I also try to extol the virtues of this to other people. But, you know, people will forget what you said and what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. And, you know, I think to take that to a different level, you know, we all remember him being in class or, you know, I've been in school a long time to be a physician. And I don't necessarily remember the teachers that— what they taught me or the specific things. I remember, did I have fun learning it or not, right?

Yeah.

And it's— there's a book out by Chip and Dan Heath now. It's called The Power of Moments. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a book that, you know, we remember the high points and we remember the low points and we remember the finishing points. We don't so much remember everything in between, right?

Yeah.

And so I think it's a, it's an important life mantra and how we treat each other and how we treat people.

Yeah, no, that's, that's powerful. And that's a good word. I'm gonna have to look that up. I have not read Power of Moments, but just based on your description, it sounds super, super good. Greg, we know a little bit about you already about where you're from and marrying your college sweetheart, your kids and grandkids. All there in Charleston. What, what else can you tell us about your story that kind of shaped who you are and led you to where you are today?

I grew up, I'm a, I'm an only child, the son of a chemist and a nurse. And I would say that my mother probably influenced my decision to, to go into healthcare, although I will tell you, it was not some grand plan. I didn't always want to be a doctor. In fact, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. My dad was a chemist, as I said, and I was accepted and all ready to go to Texas A&M to get my PhD in chemistry after I graduated. Spent a year in the lab, decided that I like to talk too much and like people a little more than spend the time in the lab, and, you know, said, what else can I do? My college roommates had gotten into dental school a little bit earlier than I did, and, you know, a year early, and they both came home. I said, well, I'll take the dental school admission test and maybe I'll go to dental school with them, and I did and got in, and they came home on their first day of dental school with 2 bars of Ivory soap each, and I said, well, what are you going to do with that? And they said, well, we have to carve teeth out of that, And I, to myself, I said, well, that sounds kind of strange and odd, and I don't really want to do that. So I declined going to dental school, and the MCAT was coming up, and I said, well, maybe I'll take that and see what happens. And as fate would have it, I did okay and got into medical school. So I think, you know, the best laid plans, if there are any, sometimes fate intervenes and you end up doing something you never planned to do.

Yeah, no, that's super, super interesting. And I bet on the first day of med school, they didn't give you a bar of soap.

They did not give us a bar of soap. No, we had a lot of books though.

Yeah, sure. Tell us a little bit about WVU Health. So, you know, the mission and vision and sort of what gets you excited there.

So WVU Medicine is a 24 War 23-24 hospital system, and we have hospitals inside the state of West Virginia, in Uniontown, Pennsylvania, in Ohio, and in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. So it's a, it's a probably a larger organization than most people think. The hospitals, there are hub hospitals and critical access hospitals throughout. It's about a $6 billion a year financial organization. So it's, it's not It's not the size of the clinic, but it's not a small organization either. So our mission is to improve the health of West Virginians and all that we serve through excellence in patient care, research, and education. And the vision is to transform lives and eliminate health disparities here in the region that we serve. You know, West Virginia is a rural state. We have a population of about 1.7, 1.8 million people. And, you know, there are challenges here with geography, with travel, with distance, with, you know, access to care. And we're here to keep people in their homes, to keep people in the rural areas and provide those services in the best way that we can. And a lot of that uses telehealth and digital technology.

Yeah, that is very cool. What are one or two ways, and we can get more specific with Thomas Hospitals or we could keep it at the overall health system level, but curious how you leverage technology to improve experience, 'cause I know your background and your passion around patient experience and clinician experience. So curious how you all leverage tech.

So I'm gonna start with Thomas and then we'll kind of get out to the broader system a bit. So with Thomas, we're a new acquisition. So I'm today, this month is 1 year on the job for me. And so, you know, I'm sort of the acquisition guy who comes in and transforms and integrates hospitals into the system. So the biggest way for us right now is we're rolling out Epic May 1st, right? And so MyChart and all of that, and we're going through the global business transformations with Workday and how How do you automate? And so the basic, you know, blocking and tackling, I think for us, you know, one of our metrics as a hospital will be open scheduling as we get later in the year and online with Epic and enrollment into MyChart and some of the basic constructs, Ed. So I think, you know, we're not as evolved as we were in Cleveland or in Florida yet, but we're getting there. So locally, It'll be how do we free up folks in our call center? How do we use chatbots? And at a system level, I know WVU Medicine and the CIO have engaged with a company, and I may mispronounce it, it's HYRO, H-Y-R-O.

Yes.

And so they will be leveraging digital assistants, et cetera. And I think it's really, really important, as you know, Because staffing, being able to find folks and retain them and train them, we can't hire enough folks to answer the phone. It just doesn't work. And so auto-scheduling of patients and digitally doing that, I think, is a help. But the reality is, especially in our state where we have an older population, is people still pick up the phone and call, and that's how they're used to communicating. They may or may not use some of the newer digital technologies. Although some do. And so we still have to have a way to automate that and yet provide the personal touch. And I use the phrase often throughout the last 10 years, but we want to be big but feel and act small, right?

Yeah, I like that.

And so I think that allows us to do that. So those are some of the ways. It's the interfaces with the public. It is how do we channel individuals to the right individual or to the right place at the right time without having to have so many people in a call center to do that.

Yeah, no, those are great examples, Greg. And, you know, as I mentioned when I was doing the introduction, I found that you were definitely ahead of your peer group. Now, I think a lot of the peer group has caught up in the last few years, you know, in terms of digital transformation technology. But what wired you to be that way? I'm just curious, you know, as I think about it, like, because you As an institute chair, you know, we're very advanced in your thinking when it came to digital. I was just curious, like, what happened? What experiences did you have that sort of got you there quicker than others?

Well, I mean, I'm not sure, but I'll try to give you my best explanation. I think, Ed, you know, I'm a general internist by training and I still practice. And in a primary care office and a general internist office, there are You know, a ton of messages. And again, prior to Epic, they were phone calls, right? Or they were texts, or people would call. And it can be overwhelming at times for you and your staff. As a one-person office, you'd get 1,000 phone calls a day. How do you handle that? And at the time, we really didn't have a lot of the technology or ability to do that. But that's really what piqued my curiosity. How can we do this better? for patient care, not, not necessarily all about efficiency, although that's a part of it, and freeing up time for your staff so that they can do things that only human beings can do in talking to other human beings and interacting with them at a human level. Um, and I guess my background and the sort of the pedigree I chose to practice medicine in really sort of prompted me and You know, I think having an innate curiosity also helps.

Yeah. And what would your advice be to IT leaders on how to best work with a CEO? You know, because sometimes, and a clinician as well, sometimes there could be a little bit of a gap. But I loved working with you, and I imagine you might, given your other experiences, you know, what advice would you have for a for an IT leader to work with hospital leadership?

You know, I'm always hesitant to give advice, Ed, but I'll take a stab at it. I think just be open. It's the advice I would give anyone. I think it's be open and listen. You know, I think 80% of our job is to listen to folks and to understand and to be open to different points of view and ideas. I think working specifically with clinicians, and 'cause I happen to be both, and clinician and hospital CEO, I think, you know, one of the things on the clinical side is how, how is what we're gonna do, how's it gonna help patient care? And how does it make the burden for you as a provider or your staff? How does it lessen that? Or does it?

Yeah.

I think those are, those are key issues, especially today when we talk about documentation and burnout and, Other things. I do think, you know, on the business side of it, if you talk to a CEO, you know, if you go talk to any CEO today, it's about staffing, right? Whether it's nurse staffing or whether it's call center staffing or staffing in the office. And it's not just recruitment, it's retention. And how do we, how do we standardize what we do so that it still has the personal touch, yet it's sort of We conserve the precious human resource that we have.

Yeah. Let's sort of transition more directly to your CEO role. And I know it's going to be hard to limit it to one or two, but favorite aspects of your role, like what do you relish the most?

You know, I like that my job is never the same on any given day. I think, you know, it is, it's just different. You know, when I think about it, it is, you know, it is helping people at scale, right? If we can improve a process or we can help do something better, whether it's quality, safety, efficiency, you know, drive drive towards perfection on a daily basis, how do we do that at scale and help more people? You know, and as I came back home to West Virginia, you know, you think about, you know, I've got, you know, I'm at the, not the twilight, but, you know, I've got a good decade hopefully. And what's the legacy, right? What are you gonna leave behind? And I think that is where I am in my career. And I think as a CEO, it's the breadth and depth of problem solving. What's my job? My job's to, you know, point out opportunities and to solve issues as they may arise, and as well as to set a vision and create a culture. So I like all of that. And mentoring people, whether they're clinicians or, you know, folks of different backgrounds, whether it's accounting, I just like people.

Yeah.

And I like to be around them.

Yeah, no, that's, that's brilliant actually. So what about balancing the needs of all the different stakeholders? So I think that's a, a, an important job as a CEO, really any leader, but you certainly have, you know, your providers that you want to make sure are having a great experience. You have your patients. Great experience, you know, the internal stakeholders and, and there's only so much you can do. And so how do you sort of think about that? And, you know, how do you sort of actualize, you know, how, how to balance it all?

So I think there's a couple things and, and when, when there is that creative tension, if you will, that's created, you know, the, the, the first and foremost question is what's in the patient's best interest?

Right.

That's, that's for me, that's a clear true north. And I found that if you do what's in the patient's best interest, that the, you know, the physicians and the clinicians that are caring for patients get that. Not always immediately, but they respect those decisions. And from a financial perspective and a business perspective, Doing what's in a patient and their family's best interest, whether it's a piece of clinical care or whether it's patient experience, that always bears fruit as well, you know, with growth and with the financial pieces. Sometimes there's short-term, you know, pain that goes with that, but long-term it always works out.

Yeah, that's a great true north. Yeah, at the end of the day, We all got into this, whether clinicians, administration, you know, to serve people, serve patients.

Yes.

And we put them at the center, everything seems to fall in line. So I wanna shift now into leadership because clearly you're a great leader and we've been talking a little bit specifically about a role as a CEO and also great insights on how you view tech and how to best work with tech leaders. But how do you personally continue to evolve as a leader? How do you sort of sharpen the saw, if you will?

I think you have to get outside of your comfort zone. I think, you know, for me it is, it's reading, but it's also interacting with other individuals that are successful or that are in seemingly unrelated professions that may have something that may seem totally unrelated to what we do in healthcare or digital technology, because I think that's where innovation and the aha moments, if you will, kind of occur.

Yeah.

And I think having a broad base of exposure to other ideas and people, whether it's design, you know, in healthcare or in general, I think that's where the growth and the new ideas truly comes from. I think in terms of curious, I think to really continue to evolve as a leader and to lead, I think one of the clear qualities is you must be an eternal optimist. You have to be because the future is exciting. To be able to help create what it looks like or will look like, at least in part, is an exciting moment. It's one of those moments that not everybody has the opportunity to participate in. So eternal optimism is a key factor in staying curious and evolving as a leader and remaining that way.

Yeah, I think it also helps motivate and inspire those who serve with you, right? If you're a leader and you're really negative and dour, And there it doesn't give much hope. And I think we always want to look at the bright side and the optimistic side and the hope. And, and people are more— seem to be more motivated to try to get there.

Absolutely.

And make it happen. So tell us about the hardest professional decision you've ever had to make.

I don't— wow, that's a great question. That's a tough one. I, I don't know that there's one, but I think if I could Yeah. There's 2 categories that I would probably expound on. And I think the hardest decisions for me as a leader, at least, are if you have to let someone go, right? If you have to make a change. Because as a leader, you realize it's not just, you know, you as a leader impact people's lives sometimes in difficult ways. And You know, those decisions, you know, are not fun. They're not enjoyable. If they were, we probably ought to do something else for a living. But I think those— that's the hardest grouping of decisions because it impacts people.

Yeah.

And oftentimes people that you've worked with, and that's hard. I think the other decisions that are hard At the moment, although they, they end up being okay, is, you know, I've traveled from West Virginia to the clinic to Cleveland to Florida to, you know, leaving people, right? When you've created your teams and when you have had a modicum of success and you like doing what you do and you like your teams, making a decision to make that next chapter in your life Is, you know, those transitions are difficult sometimes. And that's, well, that's the different kind of decision than you were talking about. I think that's another bucket that's hard, right?

Yeah, those are very, those are profound. Well, we'll end up on a positive sort of note. Let me flip that question around. And, you know, what is, you know, one or two things that have brought you the most joy as a leader?

I think, you know, somebody— when I first took the role as a leader and as the chair of an academic internal medicine department, was interviewing for the job, I was asked a question that I wasn't sure how to answer it immediately. It was, how will you know, you know, 20 or 30 or 40 years from now, how will you know if you've been successful? How will you measure your success? Not your personal success, but your professional success and feel fulfilled. And my answer, and this was, I was, this is about 30 years ago, and it's the same today as it was then, is that, you know, I'll be in West Virginia or someplace in the country and there'll be someone that I've touched or trained or had an impact on. that is caring for people or in another leadership role or contributing in that way. And I think that for me is a measure of my professional success at this point. It's not about me, it's about others. And, you know, how do you scale your leadership across several different dimensions, whether it's seeing patients or whether it's being another academic chair or being another hospital president and What does that look like? And, and to me, that's the biggest joy, I think, professionally, is to be able to look back and to see that.

Yeah, that's, that's really good. Well, Greg, wow, we've talked about a lot of things, ever, um, ever— everything from Carlos Santana, uh, playlist, and then, uh, some of the other music that we, we both like, and then learned a little bit more about you and W— VU Health and some of the things that you're working on and how you leverage technology and view digital. And what I really liked was the whole patient-first sort of mentality when it came down to, you know, making decisions and prioritizing. And then we spent some time on leadership and really covered a lot of ground. So what did we miss, or is there anything you'd like to double down on? I sort of give you the last word.

Well, thank you, Ed. First of all, thank you for having me. I don't think we missed anything. I'll double down on on 2 things. I think characteristics of a leader, you know, eternal optimism, having eternal empathy for others. And again, people will remember how you made them feel and the power of moments.

Yeah.

I think those are the key things for me in my career at this point. And it's been a great journey and I look forward to it continuing.

Yeah, no, Greg, thanks for your time. Uh, you make me miss you even more. Working together was a lot of fun and very rewarding. I'm so happy though that for you and your family to be back home, and then you're doing great things for the communities where you serve. So thanks again for being my guest, and I look forward to seeing you in person again someday.

Thank you, Ed. I look forward to that as well. Thanks again.

All right, that wraps up this edition of Digital Voices. Thanks for listening.

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