Building Communities in Healthcare (ft. Renee DeSilva)

Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. Super excited about this episode because it's someone that I've worked with in my past, and it's Renee DaSilva. She is now the CEO of the Health Management Academy. Welcome to Digital Voices.

Thank you, Ed. Very happy to be here with you.

Yeah, this is really exciting because we both have this shared experience from our past, which was really great, I think. I'm sure you do as well. With the advisory board. And so that was sort of where we first met and first interacted. And I always look back with fondness of that experience and I learned a lot and I've always been actually an admirer of the advisory board. And so it was kind of fun. All of a sudden I'm part of the team. And so that was pretty cool. And it's the same with the Health Management Academy. So when I was part of Texas Health, we had a membership with the Health Management Academy. And it was fabulous. Everyone loved it. They'd always come back. I remember the CEO would always come back with a to-do list for me and other members of our, of our C-suite. And they got a lot out of it. I know our organization did. And so, yeah, I really want to unpack that, but Renee, enough about that background. The most important question I have for you this entire episode is what songs are on your playlist?

I love that question. Okay. So I'm an old school, 1990s R&B and hip-hop fan. And so it'll be a wide variety of music. Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z. I, I sort of skew very old school in my musical tastes.

Yeah, I love it. Well, what do you think about Snoop Dogg and his resurgence, you know, through the Olympics?

I know. Well, he's definitely reinvented himself. I think it's pretty interesting to, to watch that unfold.

I'm learning a lot watching him. Yeah, that's really cool how he's done that. What about life message or mantra? Like, are there sort of words that you live by?

I think so. I mean, I am, I'm a big fan of sort of Stoic principles, which, you know, at the very core is you don't control what happens, but you do control your response to what happens. And so I always am animated by this notion of just make it happen. control your response, and you have more agency than you often think you do. So, I really live by that. You know, what can I do to make it happen for myself, for my family, for my teams? That is one of my core principles.

Yeah, I love that a lot. That's very cool. What about yourself? So, let's start in the very beginning. You can go back as far as you want. Like, where did you grow up? Tell us about who you are.

All right. I'm from the smallest state in the union, Rhode Island, which is a very small community. I grew up as the youngest of 4. I had 3 older brothers. And so, I grew up in a household where you had to have a pretty loud voice to be heard in that crowd. And there was a very big age difference between my youngest brother and myself, something like 14 years.

Wow.

So, it was this interesting experience of being part of a big family for part of my life, but then almost feeling like an only child for the second half of my life. And so, I think I show up both in first-child ways and little sister ways, depending on the environment. But Really tight-knit community. And I think those, those early days certainly shaped how I show up today.

Yeah, that's super cool. Was there a pivotal moment in growing up in your life that sort of fundamentally changed the trajectory?

Yeah. I mean, for me, without a doubt, is I had my oldest daughter very young. I had her in the summer between my freshman and sophomore year in college. I was 19 when she was born. She's now She's getting married in 3 months, if that's any indication.

Yes.

So, when that, you know, when that happened, it was sort of a transformative moment for me in terms of really honing in on my focus, honing my resilience, really being focused on continuing to graduate in 4 years. And so, I think having Jasmine was a moment that I don't know that I would have accomplished as much as I have had that not happened because it really locked me in. Gave me a level of just wanting to do well by her. And as a result, really pushing myself quite hard.

Yeah, that's, that's pretty phenomenal. And I bet she has 3 great uncles, right?

Yes. Yes. She's very well loved and protected. Yes.

I can only imagine. That's, that's a pretty cool situation. Going into your career now, how did you choose healthcare?

It's actually sort of a funny story. My first job out of school was I worked at Accenture and I was in their consumer products division. I wanted to relocate from Rhode Island because it's sort of sleepy for a then 21, 22-year-old, and came to the DC metro area and was just sent by a headhunter to a company that they said, I'm gonna send you to this company. I send a lot of folks, they'd never hire anyone. I don't ever know what they're looking for. And so, I went, and that company was the Advisory Board, and I interviewed for a role there and got that position. And my career, and, you know, they were, at the time, had just, had just sort of separated their corporate function, so they were solely healthcare. And my healthcare career grew as that company grew. So I think I sort of had more of an accidental arrival in healthcare, but I, I love the, the mission-based work that you get to do here. And it's been now more than sort of 30 years of my time spent in the space, but I think I was an accidental healthcare leader.

And you went from sort of this Accenture to sales and marketing and then into talent. Tell us a little bit more, like, just kind of that evolution, because we wanna get into the fact that you're the CEO today.

Right.

But yeah, tell us about all these other roles you had.

Yeah, I don't think it's that common of a career path, right? So, I started out as an individual contributor role, which is an often, you know, a, a decent place to start. And then, I took on various commercial responsibilities over time. And when you think about, for any organization, what really moves the needle on performance. It's your growth, it's your strategy, it's your ability to attract and retain talent. And when I was in that sort of commercial org, I was given an additive responsibility for designing onboarding, hiring, training, compensation plans for just the commercial org. And that was my first taste at talent management. And what I really found was, for any organization, a good talent strategy is either an unlock for the organization, Or it's a, or you're handcuffed by it. And so, that is sort of what gave me the entryway into talent. And from there, I took a chief talent officer role. Someone was willing to make a bet on me. I had no real formal talent structure other than this, this sort of commercial talent management. And I loved that chief talent officer position, would have intended to stay in that had I not gotten the call for the CEO role at the Academy. And I have found that the combination of growth orientation and talent management is a very good combination. Yeah.

Because you don't find that very often, someone with that very diverse background that you have. And so kind of along that line of thinking that you were just sharing, how have all these different positions sort of helped you flourish as a CEO? Obviously the talent, which you spoke about, but you've also had these other sort of operational roles.

Yeah. You know, I think careers are not linear and I have really tried to be less focused on what title I'm trying to achieve, and I've been focused on what skills do I try to build, what relationships do I try to create. And the Academy, when I joined it now almost 8 years ago, had been managed by a founder who was very beloved. There were 2, 2 co-founders, and they were very beloved. And I sort of had this opportunity to take this platform and keep all that was great about it, and then figure out ways to extend our reach and our impact. And so, I think my ability to think in a very member-centric way, which I'd learned earlier in my career, my ability to listen to what the market needs, my ability to think through how do you organize teams and functions, just was a very nice complement. And I knew healthcare well from having spent, at that point, probably, you know, 20 years in the space, and it was just a great combination. I feel like the Academy is, was just a perfect fit for me in a first-time CEO role. And I still get a ton of energy from the work that I do here.

Yeah, you can tell for sure. Now, one of your maxims that you're known for is running to criticism. Can you unpack that a little bit? Like, how does that work?

Yeah. And I now, I, that was a, that was one of the advisory board's core values, like run to criticism. And I now reframe that for our team here. And it is to say that feedback is a gift, even if it's hard to hear. And I just feel like growth is always on the other side of your comfort zone. And if you think about, I, when I think about my career and maybe even in yours, Ed, too, is when you get someone who's willing to give you the perspective that maybe you don't want to hear, help you understand your blind spots, you just open up a really broad aperture for yourself. And so, I do feel like feedback is a gift. And my hope is that I'm open to receiving it. From people and then I can give it with empathy and in a way that doesn't break people down. But I feel like if you are not open to the feedback, you really will languish in whatever position you find yourself in.

Yeah. I love that because I don't know about you. I found that as I rose in my career and had, you know, further titles that I received less feedback. Yeah. And that's the worst. That's the worst thing.

It is the worst combination. And also, the way that you show up when you have, you know, ostensibly higher title or, or more influence in an organization needs to shift. And so, if you have created for yourself a sort of zone of silence where you're not getting the feedback, that can be really challenging. You have to actively seek it out, and, and not just from your board or from your executive team, but even trying to go deeper into the organization. And so I've really tried to build that muscle into the approach that I take.

Yeah, that's great. I always, I always, I just remember at my annual reviews, like, please give me something, tell me something I could do to get better. So I imagine it's a great culture that, that you've built or added to at the academy. Was there a specific person, Renee, as you're going through your career that really sort of Helped you see who you could be?

Yeah, I, I'm fortunate in that I have several examples of that. Um, I, you know, and I think early in my career during my Accenture days, I had a really savvy engagement manager and he was so keen on detail and he just gave me this job of having to sit and write like Visio process flows for manufacturing processes. And he was exacting on it and was very, he was very generous with his With his feedback. Um, and that honed my ability to just think clearly and, you know, present things in a way. I think about my early career days. Um, I have, I have always been surrounded by people who were willing to let me shadow them, watch me, give me feedback. And then I, I think one of the more pivotal moments was maybe in my middle management career, I had someone who was, um, really in the trenches with me that would You know, I think, think that maybe one of the best messages that I received from him was that I, in order to take the next level of advancement, I needed to be comfortable being more vulnerable in my approach and not showing up in a way where I was armored or appeared to have all the answers. I needed to be a little bit more open and relatable. And I, I feel like if I had not gotten that feedback, you know, that may have been, you know, I don't know that I would've used that word to describe my way of showing up. And so, I've been very fortunate that I've been surrounded by people who cared enough about my development to really show up as a sponsor for me and be willing to help me sort of think through how to navigate my next steps.

Yeah, that is really keen. So we talked about the Academy a little bit when we started, and I mentioned my experience at Texas Health where we were very, very tightly connected with the Academy. For those who might not know, can you share a little bit about the mission and vision of the Academy?

And I feel like many probably would not know because I still believe that we're kind of a good secret in healthcare. But at the core of who we are, we believe in the power of community to drive health forward. And we do that principally through our convening. So we have a set of peer forums where we bring together leaders either by role or by topic across health systems and then industry companies who have a point of view into those health systems or into The problems that health systems need to solve. So, that's sort of our convening platform. And I think that the academy has a very dense representation of health systems, and we do that in a way that we have significant breadth. So, everything from the boardroom to the bedside, we have a way of engaging leaders in that stead. And then we also believe that there's more to be done that can't just be done inside of our convening events, which happen biannually. So, we have a number of ways to activate those insights. Through our catalyst offerings, we do a lot of advocacy. We have a co-investment arm. So we really are an engagement platform for health system and healthcare leaders that are really committed to the art of the possible and driving health forward.

What I really appreciate, and maybe you could touch on it a little bit, is that at some of these forums, they're co-located, the forums sometimes with, like, I think one coming up, if my memory serves me correct, is The CIOs are also gonna be adjacent to maybe CFOs or, or chief strategy officers.

Exactly.

And so, there'll be a shared, you know, sort of, uh, session so that you get some of this cross-pollination.

That's right. And that's very much by design. Every year we look and see what are the right mashups to create, right? You might have a CIO with a strategy officer. How is, how are those? And they, they will meet amongst their own peer group, but then we will do some crossover topics. And I think that can be really interesting. It allows to dot connect, right? The lines of any, any executive role these, these days is quite blurred, right? You don't have a siloed approach. It's really happening in a broader organizational context. And we really try to work to serve up the issues that are pertinent by role, but then figure out the right ways to dot connect across multiple constituencies. That's sort of the core of what we do.

Yeah, I, I love that because when I was like a CIO, Maybe I was struggling a little bit with my CFO, so I couldn't really necessarily go to him or her. But when I went to some of these events and talked to some other CFOs and get a better understanding that I could come back to my own and sort of, you know, really hone in on the relationship, develop it a little bit because I got this other insight sort of externally. So that, that's really keen. What are one or two objectives of the academy that are coming up in the next 1 to 3 years?

Yeah. So I think we want to just become more of who we are. And by that, I mean, we have done a really great job. If you think about the health system space, we've worked really closely with the largest 150 health systems. There's a part of the market that is very committed to staying independent and thriving. And so we want to do more to serve the independent health systems and their needs are going to be different than other segments, but we think that we could have a way to serve both of these constituencies in distinct ways. And so showing up for the broader parts of healthcare, we increasingly feel like we can shape where things are heading. And so just 2 weeks ago, we were on the Hill with 9 CEOs meeting with Dr. Oz. We met with several congressional leaders and we have really been trying to shape policy in advance of it being determined. So this notion of how do you begin to shift markets and have a greater impact beyond one individual organization. Abe Sutton was part of that meeting where we want to continue to engage in ways that are not just about individual systems, but the collective ecosystem performing and having, and having greater impact.

Yeah, no, that's fabulous. What about life As a CEO? Because that's something all the listeners always ask about, ask me about, you know, afterwards, or, hey, you should ask this question because everyone looks up to you and, wow, what is it like to be Renee? What would it be like to operate something like the Academy? I know there's probably not a typical day, Renee, but if you were to, you know, kind of paint a typical day or a typical week, what would it look like?

Yeah. So, I think the way that CEOs spend their time depends on the organization. The CEO of the Academy, and this predates me, is very externally facing. So, I probably spend 40% of my time with our members, and that can take a few different forms. It can be our own gathering. So, I personally still produce 3 of our own events. We have 2 CEO groups and a trustee group, and I'm very involved in programming and content for that. quite bespoke, and we try to make it highly curated. So, I spend a lot of time just listening and having conversations with members. I had 2 CEO calls today with health system CEOs and 2 with industry company CEOs. So, a lot of time with other CEOs shaping conversations. That's sort of one, maybe that's like 40% of my time spent. I think that the other piece I'm spending time on is just my other key stakeholder, which is my own board. And this notion of, you know, how do you stay connected with your board?

Yeah.

Are you aligned? Are you continuing to understand what their point of view is? Are you finding ways to ensure that you're getting your point of view across? So I really invest in board-level relationships for myself. And then just all the internal operations, because we are not a manufacturing plant, like everything that we do requires human capital and IP. A lot of time operationally with our, with our teams, and I have really solid teams here, but we spend a fair amount of time just intentionally planning what we want to continue to create for our members and our team. So, I would say it's those buckets, 40% externally facing, significant amount of time on board relationships, and then the internal operations stuff. And I, I try to learn from other CEOs of larger companies, like, how to not fall into the trap of, of CEO time spend, which is, don't just spend time on the things that you love to do, Renée, like, spend time on the other things that really matter. And so, I'm constantly calibrating my time spend and ensuring that it's going in the right direction.

Yeah, that's very cool. Before we leave the Academy and your role, is there maybe one or two things that you can think of that most people don't know about the Academy? So we already talked quite a bit about the mission and vision of the Academy and some of the different things you do. But if you ever thought about like, what's one thing, even if people who attend regularly may not know, is there any such thing? Yeah.

Well, we're definitely connoisseurs of event spaces. I mean, because we are doing 60 events in any given year. We're tracking the price of a gallon of coffee as a big indicator as to which way the market's going. So, I've learned a lot about the travel industry. And then, I think the other thing that might surprise people is we have a co-investment arm where we are deploying capital alongside our health systems. I think we've deployed something like $230 million of capital in the last 5 years through our strategic partnership arm, not Academy Capital sort of advising our members on that. And that's been super interesting too, around where is the market going? How can health systems influence the way that product is being created? Where can you find synergies if you think about utilities that all health systems need? So maybe the academy as an alliance of co-investment would be surprising for people to know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, that was one thing I was unaware of myself. So let me put you on the spot a little bit. So what's one place that you showed up in your schedule, like you're going to have to go and you were kind of like not really feeling it, but once you got there, you were like, this is pretty cool. Like I'd bring my family here.

Oh yeah. I might take a little liberty with that question, which is the place that I think everyone should get on their calendar if they haven't already is the Montage Laguna Beach. That is by far one of my favorite properties. You walk into the lobby, you can see the ocean from the window and you can feel your heart rate dropping pretty, pretty That would be one. And then, I'm not a big skier, so I've not traditionally done ski resorts, but we did a meeting in Vail. We've done one in Deer Valley, and I, I don't know that I wanna be a skier, but I will definitely engage in the après-ski culture. Yes. And that was through some academy exposure as well.

Yeah, I, I'm definitely a mountain person, so I would've been all about the Vail experience. Yes.

Yes.

That you, that you spoke about. Let's talk about leadership because, well, we've already, it's already been woven into everything we've already spoken about because Renee, when you speak, it just exudes your leadership. What are one or two skills that when you look back in your career to date have really been key that, and the reason I ask this question is for, again, listeners, they'll be like, I want to be like Renee. I want to become a CEO. And so they'll be thinking, okay, what skills does she have that helped her be so successful?

Yeah. So, it's interesting. I, thank you for that. I, um, I never imagined myself in this position. I wasn't necessarily striving. I wasn't necessarily striving for it. So, I, I feel incredibly grateful that, you know, someone took a, a bet on me and, um, I think it was a good bet that they made, but I'm, I, I'm grateful for it. Yeah. I think skill-wise, I would say a few things. I would just say, if I have one superpower, it's that I can read talent and I know how to build really effective teams. And I know what my gifts are, and I know how to build. I don't feel pressure to be able to do all of the things. I just put a lot of emphasis on the team that you build around you. And what I would need as a team around me as a CEO would be very different than what someone else would need. So, I would say building the right teams is key to it. I think I am also confident. I feel like I can figure things out. And I'm, I'm, I, I build a lot of relationships and I am, I will leverage those to help me problem solve. Um, and then the third, I talk about this a lot with my own team, is I don't fall in love with my own ideas. So we can try something and I'm not afraid to take an outside view and just say, you know, that's not working and have a little bit of willingness to start anew. Like having some distance between Um, how you view yourself is super helpful, meaning you're gonna get some things right, and that's not because you're perfect. You're gonna get some things wrong, and it's not because you're terrible. Like, this Equanimity theme has been really— this emotional current I've really tried to cultivate, um, so that I can show up as steady and have a point of view, but also be willing to make pivots when, you know, didn't get it right. Yeah.

Yeah, that's great. What about something you learned the hard way? You already mentioned vulnerability that you learned earlier in your career and the importance of that. Is there anything else that sort of someone, I don't know, it may have come through a mentor that you were describing or some, some other way that you just discovered, hey, uh, I gotta, I gotta make this change or pivot.

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think a previous employer did really well is, uh, the, like, an executive 360. I've had several over time. And just this awareness that the way people receive you or perceive you, whether you agree or not, is a set of facts that you have to contend with. And the way that you show up, depending upon, you know, you may be my peer, so you may have a view of me. You may be my direct report. You may be lateral in the organization, just taking stock of the 360 view of your perspective. And I think earlier in my career, I had to sort of reconcile the fact that, If you worked with me, you had a very high opinion. If you worked laterally in the organization, you just weren't sure. You couldn't quite figure me out. And I guess that doesn't really matter unless you want to ascend in your career. Like, would people wanna work with you or for you? And so, this notion of how do you just be mindful of the way that you show up to different people in the organization and try to have a deliberate approach around that, I think that was one of the lessons I learned pretty early on that I I still, that I still take with me.

Yeah. I like that. Now, we talked in the beginning about growing up in Rhode Island. Is there something that your parents made you do when you were a kid and you sort of rolled your eyes, maybe not in front of it, but in your mind you're rolling your eyes, but you look back today and you're like, man, I'm glad they made me do that.

Yeah. So I'm tall and I like seemingly looked athletic when I was younger. So every high school coach would want to recruit me for their sports team, but I didn't really love sports all that much. But the track and field coach was very compelling. And And so, he got me to commit to joining the team. And after my first meet and running the 400, which is terrible, I'm like, okay, that was great. I'm done. I'm never running again. So, I went home and said to my mom like, hey, I— that was a terrible race. I'm going to quit the track team. And she just said very calmly, sure, you can quit the track team, but you'll just need to be grounded for the duration of the season, which was 8 or 10 weeks, right? And so, but she didn't really get too hot under the collar. She's like, sure, you can quit, but here's the impact. And so, I think what— and of course, I'm like not wanting to take that. stuck it out and finished the season. But I think that was a great lesson, and you can do hard things. If you, if you start something, you have to finish it. You're, you're accountable. Like, that, that has definitely stayed with me.

Yeah.

And that was, was an early lesson.

What about today? Do you, do you run today at all?

No, I hate— if you ever see me running, you should run too, because somebody is chasing. Um, so, no, but I do, I, I feel like I am a corporate athlete, and I have raised 3 very athletic children, all of whom have played college sports. So I have a little athlete in me, but it, it comes out in my children's volleyball and in their own track and field performance is what I would say.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Wow, Renee, this has been a lot of fun. We talked a lot about a lot of different things, our, our time together at, at the advisory board and then songs on your playlist. You know, Mary J. Blige, we do have a playlist on Spotify called Digital Voices, and we'll add, add your selections to that.

Right.

And then we talked about life message and mantra and kind of coming from the world of stoicism. You can control your response, you can make things happen. And we talked a lot about your growing up and your pivotal moment was having your first child so young in life, and then how you got into healthcare and throughout your career, all the different roles and how those roles helped shape you to who you are today as a CEO. And some of the things that really helped along the way was this concept of feedback as a gift and that there's growth after I call it trauma. There's always growth after a little bit of trauma and things like that. So you shouldn't be afraid of it. And then just being open to feedback, having great mentors that helped you and including becoming more vulnerable, being more open. And then we talked a lot about the academy and just that it develops this community, what the benefits are for the members. And again, I'm a big proponent given my past experience and I know the benefit of being part of those communities. what it is like. And then we talked about daily life as a CEO and then some of the key objectives over the next couple years and continue to develop these communities and all the different things that you're doing. Not only 60 events per year, but you also have this investment arm. I mean, it's just a lot. The academy is like a lot of stuff going on. It's pretty incredible. And that's why we talked, we ended with leadership because how important leadership is. And you really talked about people and that was an emphasis throughout your career that I was picking up on is like, It's all about the people. You rise and fall based upon the people that you have, the teams that you're developing, but you also learn to know your limitations. You can't do everything. So, but you have the confidence to know what you know, what you don't know. And then you're not in love with your own ideas. I love that whole concept. And then how B60s helped you. And then how some of the things that your parents taught you just through the sports analogy to help you become more resilient and confident and those sorts of things. What did I miss? Or what did we miss?

You are a good active listener. That's, that's quite impressive.

So, I'm gonna give you the last word though, Renee. I may have missed something.

No, I mean, I guess what I would say, one thing that I'm spending time thinking about is, what does that then mean in terms of the future of work? What, what's the culture that all of us as leaders need to cultivate in the next decade ahead? I think the, the compact that we have, that employees have with employers is, is radically shifting for all the reasons that we know. And I just wanna be super thoughtful about like, what does that mean we can create? That may look different than the past, right? The way that I was groomed and the way that I developed might look very different than my 20-year-old who's graduating from college in a couple years. And so, what does the future culture of the workforce need to look like? And how do we just constructively build that in collaboration with our teams?

Yeah, that's a very good point to end with. Renee, you're an amazing leader, a more amazing human. I'm so happy for the Academy to have someone like you as their leader for such a long time now. And continuing to lead so well. Thank you for being my guest on Digital Voices.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Ed.