Building Your Own Brand (ft. Will Conaway)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Digital Voices, so glad that you're with me. One of the pleasures I have in hosting is not only former friends and colleagues, but former friends and colleagues that I really miss spending time with. So, uh, Will Conaway, welcome to, uh, Digital Voices.

Ah, thanks, Ed. Glad to be here today, and it's good to see you again.

Yeah, likewise. You know, we, we served together at Tech Mahindra Health and Life Sciences, and, uh, we commiserated a lot in a good way and, uh, really did a lot of, uh, cool things together and a lot of ideation and strategy. So I really miss, uh, our time together and having sort of like a like-minded friend, uh, to work with. So Um, I'm glad we could connect, you know, here on this forum.

Absolutely. Glad to be here.

So, Will, before we jump in, I wanna bring in our producer extraordinaire, Megan, and ask her a quick question. What, how does it feel like being in a top 3% podcast? Like you're the producer of a top 3 podcast in the world. We just found this out. Yeah, it's amazing. But, but honestly, like given our audience and you and everybody that we, we get to speak with, that's, that's not surprising. I'm just, I'm along for the ride. And I'm just so excited to be a part of the show. Yeah, I get the feeling the barrier is kind of low when they do the measurements of podcasts and how they're different.

Come on, Ed, give us some credit.

Credit where credit is due. But if you have a podcast, you know, we did exceed 100 episodes a while ago, and, you know, we're now headed towards 200. And I think our longevity— I think podcasts probably don't have a lot of longevity and a lot of episodes. And so I think that's very helpful. But I agree with you, Megan, having great guests like Will, Uh, it really is a difference maker because people listen to it because, uh, there's really interesting, uh, people like Will. Will, I was trying to think back when we first met. So we've both been in the industry for a while, and I don't know if we formally met until we served together at Tech Mahindra, right?

I don't think we did. I don't— yeah, I think that's the first time we met.

And it's kind of weird because if you look at our circles, you know, we're both, you know, doing the same sort of things and Uh, you have a little bit more of a variety of a background, and we'll get into that. But you would have thought at some point we would run into each other, but we didn't. But we quickly became friends at Tech Mahindra Grand. You know, we got to do some pretty incredible things and work on some, some, some, some neat strategies. And so, um, I've always appreciated you, uh, uh, since then. So it's just only been like, I guess, 3, 3 years, maybe 4 years.

Yeah. Yep.

Right. So, Will, I know you're a musician, so this will be a really interesting answer, but what sort of songs are in your playlist?

Ah, geez, I wasn't expecting that. Uh, you know, that's a good question and, and something— I guess it says something about a person's personality. Um, you know, I've always been kind of an album person, Ed, and I tend to listen to, uh, to a band, uh, for a while, and then I listen to all their work. So, but I will say that's changing with Spotify, uh, which has made it much easier to listen to, uh, you know, a genre of music, uh, one One song at a time. Also, I have to admit that my music taste—it's it's a little all over the board at times. I probably surprise people here. I'm currently listening to a lot of progressive metal, so I'm listening to Opeth, Dream Theater, Fate's Warning, and Leprous. The the progressive metal affinity was a kind of a natural progression, I guess, for my kid. I when I when I grew up, you know, I really loved listening to bands like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, and Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath and Rush and so on. But I will admit, however, I enjoy listening to jazz guitar, and I normally have Wes Montgomery or Joe Pass or Jim Holland during the weekend. In the car, it's, it's seriously, uh, Sinatra on the satellite radio.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that it's that eclectic and varied. Um, as a musician, what kind of music did you normally play? Because you're a guitarist, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, that's correct. Uh, metal when I was young. We were a very hard, hard metal band, uh, kind of Megadeth, Metallica, Black Sabbath, uh, but it was a little progressive. I always enjoyed the complicated, uh, pieces.

And you played at Whiskey a Go Go, right?

I played there numerous times. I played most of all the, uh, all the bars on the Strip at one time or another and used to hang out at the Rainbow quite frequently.

Yeah, I know that. That's pretty cool. Um, Tell us about your life passion or mission. Is there some sort of words that you live by or a quote that sort of inspires you and keeps you going?

You know, I think that's changed with time. I don't know if I really have a quote or a mantra. I will say maybe the mantra would be, and this has changed drastically, you know, being in healthcare now for a while. And I like to ask myself, you know, how can I make a difference in someone's life? 'Cause I think that's really what we're here to do. And, you know, and I'll say that that's really what's driving me at this point. And I always tell the people I work with in health IT that if you, you know, if you work in healthcare IT, you're part of the patient's episode of care, and that's how you have to view it. I will say, working on the vendor side of things for the past few years, I often feel that maybe I'm not doing enough, and that can actually push me in a positive direction to trying new things or learning something new that I'm confident will help a healthcare system out. And as a vendor, I think you have to take a different approach. You have to, instead of saying that, you know, we're just a vendor, we have to partner with your clients and not just provide services and products.

Yeah, that's a good point. You know, I struggled as well, especially during the pandemic, and I think we both did, right? Where we were former CIOs and we wanted to be in there like doing stuff, helping save lives, and, and we found ourselves on the vendor partner side, um, and it's, it's a little different. But like you said, um, you can even potentially impact even more, uh, patients and more if you, if you have the right attitude and you, you, uh, you really take that partnering approach. So Yeah.

Yeah, obviously. So you get to work with a lot more systems. Yeah. I think that has led to, you know, more exercise, better eating, and trying to take better care of myself. And I, I know the, uh, that's an important topic for you and you've got a, you know, a great and interesting story yourself and your health work ethic is just outstanding.

Yeah. Well, well, thank you. That's, we, we both, uh, we both came to that place in our lives. Right. And, uh, realize how important that is and why we do, do the things that we do. So we'll share a little bit about your story because you've been, You've been in operational roles, you've been outside of healthcare. Tell us a little bit about your story and to where you are today.

Oh yeah, there's a lot of twists and turns in my career, and they've always have involved operations and technology somehow. And, you know, I started my career, as you noted, I wanted to be a musician. And just a few days after graduating college, I left Kansas for California. I moved right to Los Angeles. And I have to say, thinking back, I must have looked a little like the intro to the Beverly Hillbillies with my old Dodge van, you know, loaded high and tight with Nothing of value on board, and the old Dodge blowing smoke out the exhaust pipe as I headed west. But you know, looking back on that experience, I learned a lot of great things. And you know, I learned to work with other people, learned they had to be responsible, how to take criticism. And I always say that what I learned about criticism being in a band is that never take criticism from someone you wouldn't ask advice from. Also, I look at things in in the music business, which I. Your son could probably explain this better. He seemed to caught it a lot faster than I did, but I didn't understand at that time it really was a business, and that that really hurt. And you know, something that's come to play often for me is just how to perform in front of people. But I will say after that, I quickly moved into the auto industry, which is odd, where I did everything I have to say from unloading rail cars to running massive facilities to being a COO of a pretty large company. So. That experience taught me a great deal about process, manufacturing, finance, lean and Six Sigma, how to manage up and down the org chart, which is vital. And of course, it taught me a ton about technology. I would say the auto industry, it was without question much more advanced in technology at that time. And I would even venture to say it still might be in some ways. From my work there, I received a great deal of attention, oddly enough, from the auto Work became— healthcare people started to recognize me and started to talk with me. I started in healthcare, as you noted, in operations, not IT, which would surprise a lot of people. And I have to say, that was a blessing since I learned how hospitals function from all aspects. I'm not sure I would have got that same schooling if I'd gone right to healthcare tech. So, for example, I learned how to work on such items as left without being seen, patient flow, discharge times, and redesigning emergency departments, which I really enjoyed. So my work with the emergency department redesign, I actually won an award on my very first time I ever worked in healthcare, won angel wings for my improvements with patients and their outcomes. I was also able to work with the city of Los Angeles on their public vaccination clinics at that time. You probably remember the H1N1. And I designed community healthcare fairs for those most in need for healthcare and won City of Los Angeles award from the mayor for that. So that really helped. And I know I'm kind of rattling on here a little bit, but, you know, I think the thing that was really changing that got me back into IT was in 2009. And I think we all remember, a lot of people out there listening remember the HITECH Act when it came out. And there was this huge need at the time for people who had experience in technology to help with EHR implementations. That's where my, oddly enough, my auto background came into play. From doing things around warehouse management systems, which are very, very similar to EHR systems, I already had a heads up and, or I guess, a leg up on everybody in that I was able to quickly put together work systems and strategies to implement EHRs. I knew the integration already of applications. I'd been doing that for years and nobody else in healthcare had been doing that. I knew about RF scanning and much more of those types of things, which really led to good things for my career. in healthcare. And as soon as that was going on, I became an enterprise executive within a year or so, which is odd, and had several healthcare systems talking with me. From there, my technology and operational understanding led to becoming chief of staff at a large healthcare organization with 40 hospitals and 300 clinics. So, there's no question that I have to admit that I had some good timing, fortunate timing, I'd say, but the hard work did pay off and became a major system CIO in a short period of time. So, With all that added, I guess the last part of my story for the last 11 years, I've been working at Cornell University teaching courses. And even for a while, I was the vertical lead of leadership at Cornell.

No, I want to get into a little bit of that in a bit. You know, the things that you're doing sort of on the side in education in particular. I mean, I think you may have answered it already, but, you know, maybe there's one or two other things, you know, how these previous roles sort of prepared you for your current role.

I think that's— and I'm going to say that, and you've probably found this out too, I don't think I'm going to say anything of great wisdom here, but everything you do leads to your next opportunity. And if you really examine your past, you will find that each prior job allows you to, to have a skill set or even gain a skill set that makes you successful. So whether it was the ability to present in front of a crowd, which I, I really don't get— I, I still get nervous, everybody gets nervous, but I know I can do it. You know, understanding technologies that maybe other people had never been exposed to was a terrible good benefit for me. And, you know, just the ability to see things different. There is a great advantage to being new in an industry or being new to a job title. So I will say you turn your job into one, the one that you want it to be, and also the job that's needed.

Yeah, no, no, you're, you're very gifted given your background. You know, the other thing about you, you know, Will, is that you're pretty good about building your brand. And I think you've spoken about it probably at Cornell or someplace places about, uh, brand building. And of course, we all know that, uh, the, the number one thing is, you know, for our— the companies that we serve, right? And how do we make them famous? But at the same time, um, you, you do have a focus on, on brands. So, uh, can you share with us maybe 1, 2 techniques that you'd recommend people, uh, utilize to— and, and maybe before that, we'll actually, you know, why is it important to build the brand?

Well, I will say that you need to build your brand for one thing, I would say, and that is your network. Your network is really your net worth, and you have to have some type of a brand. I mean, whether you're a company or a person, people see you a certain way. I mean, and you have your, you know, if you want to be McDonald's or Rolex or BMW or whatever you want to be, you need to kind of have that, uh, that image. So whatever you post needs to be intentional, and you need to understand what you're posting and how. So I would say that the techniques that you talk about, I'll try to— it's a really good, tough question. I'd say the first thing is observation. You know, we observe things informally and I always believe that. So as you're posting things, you know, pay attention to that. You asked for the tips around here. Pay attention to the things around you and the people around you when posting pictures. Be careful of the surroundings. I'll also say from that brand when you're building it, and I know you do a lot of public speaking too, In person. You know, leadership is 24/7 and not 8 to 5. Uh, so, you know, you can damage your reputation with one or two out-of-character acts live. So be careful there. Uh, also understand the importance of how you dress. And I know you're a very fashionable guy and understand that, uh, you know, that can impact how people perceive you and what they think of you. And I'll say lastly on that, it's just association. And, uh, be careful with those that, uh, that you mentioned with your building your brand. You know, whoever you tag yourself with on social media becomes part of who you are. And now I'm thinking of a quote, which I always love my quotes, but you know, as George Washington said, you know, it's better to be alone than in bad company. So I guess that, does that count as one more music comment too, matching in bad company?

Yeah, right. That's right. No, those are really good. Yeah, you gave us like 4 or 5, Will, because I, you know, when you look just at LinkedIn, I mean, could we be talking about Twitter or Insta or whatever? But, uh, in terms of business, you know, oftentimes it's Twitter or LinkedIn. And yeah, I, I think you see some people being unintentional, uh, and, and they're doing something that could hurt them. And, and sometimes people are really negative about the word brand and it's like, you, you know, I've been told you shouldn't have a brand. Your brand is your organization. Um, so how do you balance that personal brand versus, you know, humility versus your employer? You know, how do, how do you balance all that?

Boy, you know, I think that is the most difficult dilemma when you're marketing yourself. And for a better lack of words I can think of right now, I mean, there's guilt by association no matter where you work. So, and that representation of your organization reflects upon you and you reflect upon them. So I guess my comment there would be, if you have any questions about what you're posting or you think it might affect your company or you or your status with the company, just don't post it. Don't say it. Don't do it.

Right.

We've all been in that situation. You wish you could take something back. I, I would say, you know, just be careful what you post. It follows you forever. Social media has a very long memory.

Yeah. And, and, you know, another thing that people don't realize, Will, and you, you touched on it tangentially earlier in that you are, you do have a brand. Everyone has a brand. Yeah. And if you don't know what that is, that, that's a bad spot to be in. So you do need to be intentional, like you're talking about, uh, and really take hold of your brand. And like you said, you're, Your, uh, what was the creative way you said it about your net— your network is your net worth. Um, and so it's, it's really important to, to be careful with your brand, but you have to be intentional with the brand and it'll pay dividends for both you when you do it right. Right. Both yourself and your employer benefit. So, um, absolutely. There's a careful balancing act there. Now we talked a little bit about your teaching. Um, yeah. So you're at Cornell for over a decade now. How does that help you in your leadership? And do you recommend, like, for people to take opportunities that might present themselves to teach?

I do. I think that's— I think you said that right, it's an opportunity. I think it's a privilege often too. You know, there's great responsibility with teaching. And, you know, in a sense, it provides, you know, direction in the lives of your students. You have to take that responsibility very, very seriously. I mean, I take great pride in the— that I've taught at Cornell now for over, you know, over a decade. I also, I've been able to work myself into a nice position where I've— I teach at 3 different colleges at Cornell, which is kind of unusual. I teach at their Cornell's Industrial Labor Relations School. I'm in the Executive Master's of Healthcare Administration at Cornell Sloan College of Human Ecology. And now I also teach at the Executive Master's of Public Administration program at the Brooks Public Policy. with a focus on government employees. So, and, and to top that off, I get to, to work with General Casey for the last year, Russ.

Yeah, I remember.

And, you know, if those not familiar with General Casey, he's a retired 4-star general. He was the 36th Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army. Also, he was the commanding general of the multinational forces in Iraq. So, uh, there's a lot to learn there, you know, just hearing someone like that talk every night. And, and I, I guess I would say this to kind of like sum this up is that I also believe that my role in teaching is to create thought leaders who can create more leaders. And I think that's when I talk to people about leadership, your role is to create more leaders. And I, and, you know, and I try to take a very pragmatic approach to teaching. And I like to tell my students that if you believe everything you read, hear, or see during my class, then I failed. You know, when you teach, you need to provide leadership as your words do make difference and they can either be negative, positive on people. And I should have kind of a— can't really forget to see this. And I mean, and I've learned this from you too over the years, the last few years. I mean, you're really good about this, but I get a lot of pride out of teaching, but also I gain a lot too.

Yeah.

I work with a lot of executive students that are very advanced in their abilities to lead. I learn a lot from my students and I get exposure to many industries that I normally would not Have exposure to, so it's a two-way street. I'm learning a lot, you know, from them too.

Yeah, that's really a huge benefit. Like you said, not only do you get to invest in the next generation of leaders, but you also learn yourself, and it keeps you fresh. I remember doing a lot of Chime boot camps, and every, you know, twice a year, I'd learn the fundamentals of being a good tech leader. And it's like, great, I needed it because I keep forgetting, you know, and I had to have it. But that also helps with your brand. So, you know, you're known as oh this. Leader of leaders, teaching of leaders. And you also do stuff with like Forbes and on their council. And so you've you've you've really jumped in. You've not like backed out. And you did that again, right? To to not only better yourself, but it also helps with your brand. Yeah.

And I I know we've had this conversation in the past, and it's kind of an interesting thing. But I I really believe sometimes it's just doing that little extra. Right. What separates you from everybody else? And sometimes. You know, there's a reason that the road less traveled isn't traveled, you know? So not everybody wants to put in the time and effort. So, you know, just an extra hour a day, an extra 20 minutes a day can make all the difference in everything. It can make the difference between how you perform health-wise, you know, sports-wise, and obviously career-wise.

Yeah. There's probably a quote, you might know it, but something like the last mile, there are no ones on the last mile.

Yeah.

So always take that last mile because everyone else has already taken off, gotten their beer or whatever. Uh, you get to— you get that last mile and you get to do some pretty cool things and, and, and such. You're also a historian. So one of my favorite parts serving together, Will, we had these daily huddles, and, uh, whenever it came to your, uh, huddle, it was like this day in history. Uh, how did that come about? And, um, and then, you know, why do you continue to be a historian?

That's funny. I don't know if I'm a historian, but I love history. I've always felt it's a difference maker in my career and other people's careers too. And I've always enjoyed reading it. Did it as a little kid. I still do it. I started at— I've done it not only at work, but I've done it with my students. The idea, and that's a good question, how did it start? The idea, and I actually remember this, the idea started when I heard an executive tell a group that this is the worst thing that ever happened. And I thought his words just is poor leadership and really unacceptable. And, um, where I see the benefit in this, it's, it's, it's interesting. One, I, I always see that history provides perspective and guidance. You know, you get the lessons learned that you normally wouldn't get, and you get the, uh, the audience's attention with something interesting, such as picture yourself France, December 2nd, 1804. Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Napoleon Bonaparte is crowned Emperor, the first Frenchman to hold the title of Emperor in 1,000 years. You know, you get people's attention when they hear that. It also augments your key points in messaging. And I'm also a firm believer that those who forget history, or maybe those who don't know history, are condemned to repeat it.

Yeah, no, a good point. And, and also, I mean, the storytelling, even in the 22nd example you gave there, right? Yeah, it's a different Uh, you, you learn how to, uh, you're a very good storyteller and you can use those stories to make points and you get people's attention by the way that you speak. So even in that little snippet there, you know, your, your voice changed, your intonation changed. Uh, so you learn, uh, from that too. And then you use that in life, you know, that capability. So, um, I'm just reinforcing why it's important, uh, not only to get that perspective, as you said, and, uh, and the guidance from history and not to repeat Uh, the bad history, but there's these intangible things I was just talking about that really help. So I, I used to love it. What is the— so you're, you're used to giving a lot of advice to people. We've— you've already gave many examples here. What is an important piece of advice that someone gave you?

Hmm. You know, I, I've been lucky. Uh, I've had very good mentors over the years. I've also seeked out mentorship and coaching over the years because there's no reason not to, no matter what level you're at. You can always learn from someone else. I'd say the the item when I was young that I someone told me, and I've never forgot it to this day. And I'm kind of paraphrasing here, and that is you own your career, and no one else will care as much about your well-being as you do. So my comment there would be you know don't wait on others to help you help yourself. And as I've grown older, something that I've heard a few people say, and and it makes perfect sense, and that is. Don't be worried about reinventing yourself when you needed to, or when you're in a rut.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. So you're obviously very accomplished, Will, you know, you've got this super important role at a great organization. You teach on the side because, you know, you don't— there's too much time on your hands teaching and then you're doing music. How do you recharge your batteries? And remain fresh. How do you keep fresh?

You know, this is something over the years I have not really probably excelled at, and it's a miss on my own behalf. I've recognized this now as I've gotten older, that the importance of getting away and taking that break. But, um, I would say something I've always done— I've always stayed in fairly good shape, and I've really kind of been hitting it again over the last 6 months and trying to really get back in great shape. So exercise— I find that when I'm really stuck or frustrated Uh, nothing works better than a good workout. And throughout my life, I found that, you know, if you're really stuck on a situation or a solution to something, it's amazing what a good run can do for you. You just get out there running and, you know, listen to music, your mind's off it, and all of a sudden a solution will just pop in your head. It's like, yeah, where was that a half hour ago or 2 hours ago? So exercise, I think that's something everybody can benefit from.

Yeah, I mean, it's really good. Yeah, like you're saying, take a break from the electronics. Go, if you can't run, walk, um, do something that's, you know, not work. And, and a lot of times ideas and inspiration, uh, will come to you and you, um, sort of get recharged and refreshed. Um, we talked earlier about music quite a bit and you're a guitarist. I remember we'd have meetings with, uh, with someone around the world and you'd notice a guitar on their wall or something and you were able to predict, oh, that, or, or not predict, but But identify, that's a 1946 Les Paul III or whatever it might've been. But obviously music's super important to you. Have you seen a correlation between music, your career, your work? Is there any sort of correlation or is it just pure hobby downtime type thing?

Yeah, it's become not enough hobby anymore. I don't play quite as well as I used to and that can be frustrating. But I think that music's an interesting thing to me and that is music has odd patterns. yet logical at the same time. And I always say that, you know, playing and writing music makes you think deeply. And what it really, I find, is that it makes your mind and your body really become one. Definitely helps with creativity, you know, especially if you're trying to write something creative. So, and something I've noticed with music over the years, you know, some of the most ugly sounding notes when combined together, they can create, you know, the most beautiful sounds. So, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing perfect in music.

Wow.

It just isn't life. You know, there's things that don't make sense, But they still seem good. And, uh, there's people out there, oh, give me an example. You know, if you're ever wondering what I'm talking about, just toss on a Thelonious Monk album or a King Crimson album and, you know, just listen to that for a half hour. And it's just, it's all over the place. Some of it doesn't make sense, but it just sounds so great at the end.

You know, it just had me thinking, and I'm just stuck on this, this band, but this tune, um, now which I forgot, but The Beatles, right? Everyone, they're class, right? They brought in a whole new generation of music and, and you don't realize how different it is until you listen to it by track, by voice track. So the harmonies, right? You, when you listen as a kid or whatever, even as an adult, you're not realizing how different the— and again, I'm going to use all the wrong musical terms, much to the chagrin of yourself and my youngest son, but you don't realize that they are in completely different levels. So John Lennon singing, And Paul McCartney singing. And if you'd listen to them individual track, it sounds horrible. I mean, it sounds like, what, what's that? That's sort of weird. But when the tracks are laid over one another, it's like this beautiful harmony. And, uh, it was just an eye-opener for me and it made me think about work, right? Like when you work with someone, you don't wanna work with someone like yourself all the time, right? Like yourself, like your own digital twin or whatever. It's always great to work with someone else that's different, a clinician or whatever. Uh, someone, you know, having a diverse relationship because together you make this, you know, sort of this beautiful sound.

I totally agree. Yeah.

Now I'm gonna rack my brains for, you know, what's— what song was that? But anyways, almost all the Beatles songs are like that, that people— listeners should listen to one track at a time and, uh, they'll see what I'm talking about. Hey, Will, we talked about so many things, uh, your career, talked a lot about music, got some new music ideas. that which haven't been shared on previous episodes. And then we talked about, uh, the brand, which we think is super, uh, important. And, uh, you gave a lot of advice about brand building, uh, and then you talked a lot about, uh, leadership and, and the role that, that we all play in leadership and storytelling, history, everything. We covered a ton of stuff. Um, and we talked about how do we remain fresh ourselves and reinvent sort of quote unquote Reinvent ourselves. Um, what did I miss? Or is there something that you want to double down on as kind of the final word?

I just, I guess, just thinking about things and I always get reflective when I, when I, when I talk with you, cause I learned so much. I just say, you know, especially around this time of year, I like to tell people to take a few minutes to think about, uh, you know, the blessings in your life. I think that that's something that I've got to remind myself to do a lot. There's a lot of good things that happen in life too. And I think it's important to do that. You know, to spend time with your friends and family and be positive about your future. You know, I was just thinking, I don't want— quotes are popping in my head, maybe because you're talking about history now. I'm kind of reflecting back on our huddles, but, you know, I know this quote's been attributed to 1,000 people, but, you know, the best way to predict the future is to create it.

Yeah.

And I find this is good advice for the individual, good advice for myself right now, and also good advice for an industry such as healthcare that often looks for help, I think. Healthcare needs to take that, that approach more often, you know, to create its future and stop, you know, trying to predict things.

Yeah. Well, that's, that's a good word to end on. Although I did remember the name of that Beatles song that I was thinking about. It's If I Fell, If I Fell in Love with You. And if we had practiced, if we will, if we would've had talked about this ahead of time, I could have had you do the McCartney line and I would've done the Lennon line and we would've done it individually. And people say, what the heck is that? But then when we sang it together, they would know why you and I work together so well. So, hey, I really appreciate you being a guest. Uh, thank you so much.

Thank you so much. It's great seeing you, Ed.

All right, that wraps up Digital Voices. Stay tuned for our next drop.

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