Cherishing Relationships (ft. Babatope Fatuyi M.D)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges, and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences.

And now, your host, Ed Marx. Digital Voices, welcome. So glad that you've joined us. We know you have a lot of different choices in what you listen to, to occupy your time driving or running or what have you. And you chose us, so we're really thankful for that. We are commercial-free, sponsor-free. We do this just for the sake of pure content to help everyone in their journey. And so you're in for another treat because we have, uh, Dr. Babatope Fatuyi joining us. So, uh, Tope for short. So Tope, thanks for being part of Digital Voices.

Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate that.

Yeah, it's great because when I talk about Marx described when we first met, we met like in 2015 and we were both at service at New York City Health and Hospitals. And it was so much fun, but at the same time, perhaps the greatest challenges of our career, or one of the greatest challenges. And what made it Work is one, we had a great team, and New York City Health and Hospitals, super great working together, particularly with the leadership and, and the technology teams. But we had a lot of fun.

Of course.

And so as stressful and as hard and political and every possible challenge, including the media, that you could have, uh, we had fun and we did good work. And, and Tope, you were a CMIO with me there, and you just had a way with the clinicians to get them to, you know, relax a little bit. Because I, I don't know if the audience would know, but New York City Health and Hospitals, the clinicians belong to unions. So not only is the IT, everyone below, like a manager, managers and below, were unionized, but also the doctors. Uh, I had never experienced that before, so we had to be very careful how we worked with one another, but it was 'cause of the greatness of yourself. And we had a couple other physician colleagues, as you know, that really made it work. And I know, I'll just say one last thing in terms of when we first met. I know that Dr. Raju, who was the CEO, he said to me after the pandemic, he said, Ed, the reason New York City did as well as it did you know, despite how challenging it was given nature of the city and nature of COVID was because of the framework and the groundwork that our teams put in terms of digital transformation. So anyways, so we've been fast friends since then, and our families have hung out, and you've visited us, and we've visited you all. And, uh, it's just been a great, a great friendship, and for, for 8 years now. So So I'm so thrilled that you're here.

No, no, thank you. You couldn't have said it better. We had a strong, strong team, and just like any family, you know, every obstacle we overcame and we left a good legacy. So I do appreciate being here and reminiscing about that today. Just beautiful what we have there, what we had, and what still remains. Good foundation. Thank you for the opportunity to have worked with you, Ed.

Yeah, super long introduction, but we have this deep history with one another. But Tope, you know, the first question we ask everyone is songs on your playlist. So what kind of music do you like to get down to?

I'm quite eclectic. However, however, with the growth of Afrobeats, of course, that's my genre, go-to genre. And in particular right now, there's a young kid who died mysteriously, so to speak, about 27-year-old guy. His name is Mobad. Just his songs now live forever, right? And I've just been enjoying all the work he's done. Amongst other genres on my playlist are basic hip-hop, dancehall, some rap, so to speak.

Yeah.

And I do enjoy soul based on the mood, R&B, and of course, my church spiritual songs. So, those really uplift me too many times beyond the rhythm of the good songs.

Yeah. And what was funny going back to New York City is you would introduce me to a lot of this music and I would Shazam or whatever it is, you know, what that music was. I'd come back home to Dallas and I'd be playing it for my kids. My kids thought I was like the hippest dad.

I mean, it's our sir. Your friends make you kind of. So somewhat, you know, you were robbed of. Yeah.

And you were actually our DJ. We would have parties and, you know, because we'd always be celebrating as good teams do. And you were always the DJ for us. What about your life message or mantra? Are there words that guide you or that you live by?

Over time, you Depending on the times, you go by one another. But in the last decade, I've come to settle on something that I've used within my life. I've used to challenge friends, colleagues, and family. And it is 2 words, which is cherish relationships. Relationships are the cornerstone of a fulfilling life. It takes time to invest time and efforts in nurturing them. And my other piece is that of all the billions of people in the world that I could meet, it's through divine grace and intervention that I'm meeting you or the next person that I work with. You might think you hire your teams or your staff, but honestly, Those are some well-orchestrated, superhuman movements that let you land on what you have. So, I do cherish relationships sincerely. And that's my life message and my life mantra.

Yeah. Love it. And tell us a little bit about you personally. Like, you have an accent. So, tell us where you grew up and how you ended up where you've ended up.

Well, I'm Nigerian. I'm both born, raised, still a Nigerian, dual citizenship as the case may be. When I was almost— after med school in Nigeria, I did come to the United States. I went to University of Georgia and became a Bulldog. Upon— or I forgot to mention, my mother is a teacher and my father is an engineer. My dad really wanted me to be a doctor. So me being someone that wanted to do well for my dad became a doctor. So I don't see patients right now. Go figure. But I do love being a physician. It's my fabric. It's my spine. And that's why I'm enjoying serving doctors as I am today as CMIO at UTHealth Houston. That path of CMIO is one that One of my teachers, Professor Alunge, is an orthopedic surgeon, and I would always ask him, how did you decide to be a surgeon? He was so good at it. He was one of my best teachers. And he would tell me and tell all of us, I followed the path of least resistance. And honestly, that's the same thing I did. I realized that there was opportunities and within the informatics sphere in America. And at that time, it was just everywhere, and I had a huge choice to make. And honestly, I followed the path of least resistance, and that's why I'm speaking with you today, honestly.

Well, now you have a very distinguished career, and you're only like in the early stages. You're still A super young man. So for those not familiar with UTHealth Houston, what can you share about your facility?

Well, UTHealth Houston is located within the Texas Medical Center, and we have some schools that makes us what we are. In particular, the McGovern Medical School. the Cizik School of Nursing. We have the McWilliams School of Biomedical Informatics. We have a School of Public Health. And we also do have a huge faculty practice across all. I believe that we are one people, one mission, in keeping with our marketing campaign within the community, which is the Many Faces, One Mission. And basically just very strong with medical excellence. We're working strongly with research opportunities. I like UTHealth Houston a lot because of the interdisciplinary collaborations that coexist within all of the schools and the commitment to diversity and inclusion within the city of Houston. So by and large, I, I, I— that's what makes us what we are, in a community that supports innovation and entrepreneurship even within the confines of the state's requirements and entity, as you might know, being Texan yourself, um, in all of this.

Yeah, it's a great school and a great, um, facility, and everyone knows about it, certainly. What are some nifty things that you're doing? Can you share one or two things that maybe that you all are doing with, uh, you know, related to digital or Digital transformation?

Yes. Regarding that, we have— it's not just about a year-old center that is formulated, which is the Center for Digital Healthcare Innovations, CDHI. And mission mainly is the sustenance of an end-to-end integrated patient-centric EHR for support of care delivery education and research. And by virtue of this inter-school collaboration for the community and our faculty practice, we will come up with some products. For example, we do have our vendor instance for EHR provided for the doctors and for the patients and all the auxiliary stuff as the case may be. We have a parallel educational instance strictly for students so that while they're in school, they can get exposed to this.

Nice.

And being hired out of college, you already know most of the tools to get on with day one. It makes our own students even much more marketable and much more valuable in this ever-competitive job market that we find ourselves. The other piece is just the embracement of artificial intelligence and machine learning algorithms. that I use for tasks daily. One of the things I did hear, though, perhaps that resonated mainly while working with you under your leadership, was the fact that healthcare is typically a laggard in adopting new opportunities when it comes to technology. But I personally heard of generative AI sometimes in December. And now it is so fast, well integrated in healthcare. So healthcare is really dynamic and changing in adopting cool stuff.

Yeah.

So that right there, we are embracing that significantly because of the possibility of disease detection, the ability to have some predictive analytics and treatment optimizations using this large, vast dataset that we have at our disposal. So those are some of the nifty stuff that is going on within our digital space within my community.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. And I think that's the benefit sometimes of being in the academic side and research is, and, you know, teaching, all that kind of stuff is you tend to be a little bit more progressive than perhaps an organization that doesn't have those components. So I'm not surprised to hear that you are sort of leading the way, not being laggards. So that's— that always makes me, uh, real happy. Let's talk about the future of digital in healthcare. And how does— how do you— how does your organization— I think maybe you kind of gave us the answer already, but how do you view digital transformation? Like strategic, tactical? Like, you know, how do you think about it?

Well, you know, I, I view it as more of a combination of both, um, both strategic and tactical. Um, I approaches to digital transformation, typically quick wins build momentum, so to speak.

Right.

So we've got to be tactical in our initial initiatives. That's the only way that after entrusting you with stuff, you have to show really, while at the same time in parallel having some long-term strategic goals in mind. Additionally, the extent to which this digital transformation is strategic or tactical can vary based on the need. If there is a pandemic, so to speak, or thereabout, if there's a disease surveillance that is affecting situations, we just have to change course. So I think we embrace both largely depending on the scenario. And the situation at hand.

Yeah, no, I, I can appreciate that you would do both, right? Because you don't want to just be theoretical and strategic and not do anything. Uh, and, and I think you're right, when you do some tactical things, it builds momentum and, and it makes it more strategic. So I kind of like, uh, how you think about this. How do you personally learn and stay ahead of the curve? So are there things that you do, Tope, that So, you don't see yourself fall behind that you do that others might learn from?

In thinking about that, there's nothing I do in particular that says, hey, there's no daily duty that I obsess over. There's no religious processes that I go over to keep ahead, to stay ahead of the curve. No, more life habit to committing to long-term learning through courses, LinkedIn Learning, just hearing about certifications and a degree of formal education. I personally believe after every decade, get a degree of formal education one way or another because 10 years is a long time. You don't rest on those. If you really want to be cool with the cool kids, you got to go back to school with the cool kids. That's the way I see this. One stays informed via reputable sources. You're on a plane, you're reading a newsletter, you're taking part in podcasts, listening to podcasts. You attend networks with professionals in different organizations. You speak, you go to other people speaking, right? You gain hands-on experience with different projects that others are doing within your environment because somebody is always wanting or doing something. Listen, and you always learn something. Reading research papers, even if it's just for you to read the output and the summary, honestly, you get something out of there. Mentorship is also one because you were my mentor and I learned a lot in the structured engagement that we did have. And I've approached many of the folks that I do mentor in that same vein, and it's been significantly mutually beneficial to me. While we stay agile, being adaptive, and just being open to change. Honestly, and I will mainly just say to continually evaluate, assess the impact of innovation on healthcare is just the only way. And again, there's nothing I do daily. You know, just going with the flow kind of thing. Yeah.

No, Topi, you just dropped about 10 or 12. I was taking some notes, 10 or 12 different ideas that people can incorporate in their daily practice And like you said, it doesn't have to be like a structured thing, although, you know, you mentioned mentoring or listening to Digital Voices podcast. But, you know, most of them are just, you know, sort of informal but really important. And I love the concept of every decade getting some other degree or certification because that'll keep you young, that'll keep you relevant. It always amazed me how You know, people would graduate at age, let's just, 22, maybe a doctor, 28, 30, and 20, 30 years later, their knowledge is based on 20, 30 years ago.

Right.

It's like, I don't wanna follow that person, you know? So, it's really important to reinvent yourself. So, thanks for that reminder. What advice, so Topi, you've worked now, you've been doing this for a while, you've been a CMIO for a while. What advice would you have? So, you know, probably half our listeners are CDOs, CIOs. What advice would you have for them in terms of effectively collaborating with clinicians?

That I'm still learning how to collaborate with physicians, even though that's the best part of my job. I love it, really. I'm very proud to serve doctors. I'm very proud of making their lives easier. I'm very proud to understand the gaps that exist in the day-to-day. and providing solutions and services for them. Now, for those CIOs and CDOs who are not physicians, which is the majority of folks, to understand clinical workflows and pinpoint is key to this. And engaging clinicians early in any of these technology initiatives. Now, these doctors will love it. They will be excited to be part of this work. And contribute early for those initiatives, it helps with building trust based on having folks being included and being collaborative. For those CIOs and CDOs who can decipher how to communicate in nontechnical languages, you're just like a magician. Because most will really lose the average doctor by then going so deep. And rarely would you find someone say, hey, I don't understand what you're saying, but you're not going to hear that. But then if they really don't get it, but ability to communicate in non-technical language is just very helpful. Other things is just to know that for clinicians, comprehensive training and support, it doesn't have to be classroom, be whatever. Cutting-edge training is the key. When many of our feedback through class and other piece, it helps and people feel like you care. Creating and establishing a feedback mechanism and just having champions and representations, those things there will be very, very helpful for a CIO or CDO. In essence, Get you a CMIO that can do these things for you. Now, if you cannot afford a CMIO by title based on your structure, it's fine. There's so many other titles that do the same work that can make you successful as a CDO, as a CIO, with respect to these opportunities that I mentioned just about now.

Yeah, and I think that's a good point, Tope, that you bring up because You know, we're blessed to be in organizations that are sizable and having a CMIO is, you know, just standard. But many healthcare systems and hospitals are a lot smaller and they don't have that luxury. But you don't have to, like you said, you don't have to have that formal title. These principles that you shared, again, another 10 or 12, well, not principles, but action items, you can do without a CMIO, but find that clinician champion and— others that you work with. And, um, so that's a really good point. I want to talk about, uh, leadership. What's the most enjoyable aspect of your job? So other than soccer— I see a soccer— people can't see this, but there's a soccer ball in the background. And I swear I saw a video put out by UT Health a few years ago. You were doing something with soccer on a treadmill or something, training or something.

Yes, yes, that was actually signed by the team. our local Dynamo team, all the players at the time when you saw that video, they actually signed on it and it's right there in my office. To answer your question, most valuable, most enjoyable aspect of the job really is the fact that I embody our organization mission daily because that helps my value and It helps my contribution by ensuring that technology aligns with and supports the organizational goals in how I deal with situations around me. Problem solving is an opportunity to me. I get excited as I face these complex challenges related to technology, data security, or compliance, or just regulations as a whole, in just hearing people come up with intellectually stimulating and professionally satisfying ways in which we can solve these things. And again, to do that, you have to have the heart of collaboration. You have to know that one typically will need to work with both clinical and IT teams. Bridging between these 2 worlds and collaborating with a wide range of professionals can, as I said, stimulate us both physically, intellectually, and emotionally. significant value, but I do enjoy that heavily. The other piece is that, you know, for me, sometimes I do aware it's good for me. I feel good knowing that I'm a leader. So the ability for me to know that I'm in a leadership role within this organization and can be one way, the 360, be it from the back, from the left wing, right wing, defense, goalie, goalie. However, if I can influence the strategic direction of the institution one way through advocacy or just having a conversation with the right stakeholder to drive improvements within healthcare IT and primarily and ultimately for the patient care, because all of us are patients, then that gives me the joy to be where I am. in the organization that I am beyond anything else. Those pieces are really things I do enjoy about being in these leadership aspects of my job. And mind you, I've not said anything technical or anything that has to do with any product that we used. It's just being human and just understanding that I'm here for a mission, I'm here for a purpose, and I do my best to make sure I achieve that.

No, that's super. What's the sort of on the flip side, or maybe it's, uh, there's a good correlation, but what is the hardest decision you've ever had to make in the workplace, like as a leader?

Uh, you know, most of my life I never really, uh, I've been a consultant, you know. Here I propose to stay and make it work out. In that is learning that You hire people and sometimes you just have to let them go. And I, being a relationship builder, it was difficult for me to— due to reduction in force— to let people go. I worked hard to hire them. I had to live with letting them go in that way. So I will say that in my short time being here, That has been my most challenging. I had to talk myself through it. I had to talk those around me through it. You know, people come, people go. Sometimes it's forced. Sometimes they do it on their own. But that is just the nature of life. But that's something I had to learn at that time.

Yeah, that's no fun for sure. But I mean, at least with you, you know, you're a very compassionate person. person, a very caring person, and I'm sure it was handled well and with a lot of grace.

Oh yeah.

How do you, you know, given the— given your role and the pressures and just all of different parts of life, how do you recharge your batteries and remain fresh? You know, burnout's a big thing, and, you know, what do you do to combat that?

You know, Some of us are superhuman. I consider me being one of those superhumans, and I say that jokingly, even though I do believe that. And I will use an analogy. Are you aware of those self-rechargeable batteries, the type of energy storage devices that can recharge themselves without any external intervention?

Yeah.

That's what I consider myself to be. I am happy in my own company. So to speak. However, if I would say there's a place I enjoy to just visit from time to time, I like to be at the beach. Luckily, Houston has a beach not too far away, Galveston. And, uh, if it's not Galveston, I do like to get invited to the coastal areas, you know. So wherever we can just go for an hour or two, just walk in the sand, And refresh. Yeah, that I enjoy. But apart from that, I don't really have anything formal. There's no ritual that I do require to recharge.

Right. No, that's good. And I like the beach also. Well, we've spent a little bit here, uh, Tope, talking about sort of our shared experience together, and then, uh, just sort of your journey in becoming a physician, and then UTHealth Houston and all about your organization. And then we talked about digital in healthcare and then sort of ended here with leadership. Is there something we missed or something you want to double down on? I'm going to give you the last word.

I will say to double down, cherish relationships. It's not that serious. I'm not the smartest or the best to do this. There's always somebody going to be better than you. And this, our journey in life, is not forever. So the relationship that you do have needs to be adored and appreciated. And I think you're going to be a better leader, a better person doing the work. And I appreciate one thing that you did for us, for which I take personally, is the Bagel Masters in New York. It's actually made me a better leader in my communications. It makes— for that, I'm thankful. And I just want to leave with that and say thank you, Ed, for everything. I appreciate being on your podcast, and I look forward to much more opportunities to talk with you.

Yeah, I so appreciate you being on the podcast and reminiscing with me and also sharing from your heart a lot of really good things for That people can adopt into their own practice and make themselves more efficient and better. And yeah, for sure, we had— it makes me miss our times together. We had this great collaboration, both fun parts, family parts, and the work parts, and we just made it all happen. It was a very magical experience. And that's why I like your cherished relationships, because at the end of the day, that's what it all comes down to. So again, I'll wrap up. Thank you, Tope, for, for being our guest. And that concludes another episode of Digital Voices.

Thank you for listening to Digital Voices podcast with Ed Marx. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.