Empowering Change: from Nurse to CIO (ft Tonya Reeder)

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices Podcast, where we chat digital transformation challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences.

And now, your host, Ed Marx.

Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. Thank you for listening. We know there's a lot of good choices, and here you'll have commercial-free, ad-free, just pure content and great leaders like Tanya Reader. Tanya, welcome to Digital Voices.

Thank you. Nice to be here.

I'm so excited to have you because what you do is super special to me. You know, you're a great leader, but also serving, as we'll find out, serving our country. We met some time ago, but we recently had opportunity to have dinner together with some other friends, and we just had a great time connecting. And I was like, man, I need to make sure the world knows about you because you're an amazing person. And so hence, that's my, We're together. Tonya, before we get going too far, what are songs on your playlist?

I love Patti LaBelle, so anything by Patti. I love LeAndria Johnson gospel, old school hip-hop and R&B, of course.

Yeah. No, I love it. That, that might be one or two new artists for our playlist. We do have a Spotify Digital Voices playlist and it's full of great recommendations. I listen to it all the time. So welcome back.

Thanks.

In the link as well. What about life message and mantra? Are there words that sort of guide you or how you live?

Yes, I have 2. One is too easy because I don't think anything is difficult. And the second one is let's figure it out.

Love it. Yeah, those are great. I love that. That's a really good, good way of serving and living for sure. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Like, where did you grow up? You know, who is Tanya?

Oh my gosh. Okay, so I grew up in many places. I was born in Louisville, Kentucky, which is funny because I do not have an accent by any means. My mom left Louisville when I was about 4 months and moved to Southern California, got tired of living in Southern California, and then moved to Oakland. And at that point, between Oakland and the DMV area is where I spent the most of my— most of my days, most of my life until I got married. To my husband.

Oh, that's awesome. Was there a pivotal moment in your life or early life that sort of changed your trajectory? You know, obviously you had this big move when you were really small, but was there anything else that happened that like kind of set you, set the stage for your future?

Oh, absolutely. So in high school, I went to the career counselor and I was like, hey, I think I want to be a nurse. And he said, oh no, Nursing isn't for you. You probably should go work in the local factory or the local mill.

What?

And he did. And I was like, oh, well, I have to prove him wrong.

Love it.

And so I lived out my dream to become a nurse. And the reason I became a nurse, or that was even an option, my aunt, my favorite aunt, she was sick. She had esophageal varices. So we knew she was going to die. But when we went to visit her in the ICU, she was smelly and dirty, and she had blood On her face. And, um, okay, I'm sorry, getting emotional. I was like, I have to be a nurse because I didn't want anybody's family member to have an undignified end of life.

Yeah.

So I became a nurse because of her.

Wow. What a story. I knew you were a great person. There's always a story. That's why I asked the question. You know, there's always a story behind every great person. And that's pretty remarkable. That's pretty cool. She'd be very, very proud of you. So you started as a nurse, obviously, but then you pivoted into technology.

So tell us how that So I tell everybody I'm a disruptor and I have a big mouth, as if you haven't noticed when we've seen each other. I was a bedside nurse at a local facility. Well, actually, at this point, I wasn't a bedside nurse. I was a chief of nursing, chief of critical care nursing, I believe. And we were putting in a new electronic medical record and the techies were telling us what we were going to do. And technologists, as you know, they're engineers. they are very intelligent, but they're also very logical. So A comes before B, before C, so on and so forth. Well, I'm a nurse. I don't assess someone's anus before I assess their brain.

Yeah.

So it's like, hey, you want— the whole purpose of this electronic medical record is to make our life easier. The way you're doing it is not going to make it easier for us. It's easier for you because it makes logical sense, but that's not the way we assess patients or care for patients. And I went to our chief nursing officer, and I was like, Hey, this doesn't make sense. This is what they need to do. Here's 3 courses of action and 1 recommendation. Have a good day. And she was like, whoa, slow down. Guess who's about to become my new nurse in IT? And I was like, oh no, I'm a nurse. I don't, I don't know how to spell IT. I don't, what's a computer? What's that? And she transitioned me to become at that time what, what was called a clinical liaison, but it's now a nursing informaticist. So, that's how I got into the initial pieces of IT in my life.

Yeah, that's amazing. So, now you're a leader, but I wanna, we're gonna talk more about that in a second, leader as a CIO, but that obviously helps you, right? Having that nursing background. How, how have you been able to help your engineers, like, on your team understand that sort of perspective? Because you have that perspective because you lived it. And how do you help them sort of understand that?

So when you walk into my office, and this is gonna be kind of hokey, there's a sign that says, business runs IT. When you walk into our IT suite, that's number one for me, for my staff, and any of our visitors to come in and really understand that when we walk through these doors, we're actually putting business before IT. So it's not about what makes IT easy, it's what makes it easier for the end user. And part of it is when we're talking about our requirements, we don't provide solutions until we know fully what's the workflow. So all of our in-house created technologies, initiatives, and tools, we have to have a clinical person who's going to be the recipient on that.

Yeah.

So that way, as we're talking about, oh, we can do X, we can do Y, we actually understand from their perspective how it's going to make their life easier, how it's going to make their life harder, or how it just doesn't Yeah.

I love that. That's great. Is there a part of you that ever yearns to go back to nursing or some sort of hands-on patient care?

So, I want everybody to watch your podcast, but I hope my boss doesn't because I actually still moonlight twice a month at a local facility as a nursing supervisor. And I do that so that I can remain boots-on-the-ground minded. So, when the electronic medical record goes out at my gig, I understand what it feels like being the person trying to figure out how to maneuver the workflow without electronic medical record.

That's amazing. I knew that I connected when we met, when we had that dinner. I just knew there was a deep connection and everything you're saying is like resonating so deeply with me. That is, that is amazing. Very, very cool. So you were working the civilian side and you shifted over to the DOD. How did that happen? Like, you know, how did you make that transition and you've stayed there and why do you stay?

Okay. So the same organization in the civilian world, we became part of a system and the system decided that IT was enterprise services. And at the time, remote work was not a thing. So everyone had to move to the Midwest. I had 2 small children, a husband who was active duty Navy at the time. Go Navy, beat Army always. And I wanted to provide my children some type of stability that I didn't have as a child so they could grow up and, you know, they lived in the same neighborhood, they had the same friends, you know, they know their neighborhood. So yeah, so I actually stayed here and I applied for jobs and I came to what was then National Naval Medical Center. as the chief of informatics. So, yeah, that's how I got into DOD.

Very cool. What's something that most people wouldn't know about? I know a little bit because I grew up as an Army brat.

Mm-hmm.

But what would the average person, you know, that's only been a civilian, what, what, what is something they might not know about the DOD healthcare?

All right, so I'm gonna brag a little bit. The DOD healthcare, Defense Health Agency, we are truly the largest, most integrated health system in the world.

Yeah.

And when I say the world, I truly mean the world. So if you think about anywhere we have military staff or civilian staff, even when you talk about downrange boots on the ground in wartime, we have providers, nurses there that take care of patients. We have providers and nurses on submarines, on ships, everywhere. And we have to stay connected. So if you think about from the point of injury of a warfighter all the way until they get Back to a facility that we have a contract with and we trust to get them stable to come back to the United States, where we then take care of them further and rehab them until they retire, either go back to the field, which a lot of them love to do, or they retire, and then we transition them to the VA system. All of that electronic medical record or all that medical information has to traverse all of those different places and systems. And are we perfect? Absolutely not. But are we almost there? We are definitely almost there. And And again, think about anywhere remote that you have military, we provide healthcare.

Yeah. No, that is a very, very large scope. And like you said, it's the biggest in the world. Can you share anything about where you are today and what you do?

So today I work at the President's Hospital. I am the CIO of Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. I'm also the CIO of the National Capital Market, which consists of 2 large medical centers, 27 military treatment facilities, and 31 dental clinics.

Dang.

We cover Camp David, the White House Medical Unit, and a couple other places. So that's where I work. That's where I'm the CIO. And I tell folks all the time, it is very impressive that we take care of the presidents and the leaders of our nation. I personally think it's more impressive that we take care of the 1% of the men and women that leave their home for whatever to defend our right to make whatever decisions we want to make, right? And most notably is because I work on the installation. I'll give you something that happened maybe about 4 months ago. There's a gentleman here who was hurt in our last war, and he only has one arm. And he's on a mobilized platform that takes him everywhere. And he was riding, he was zooming. I mean, obviously, he wasn't going as fast as a car, but he was zooming on the sidewalk. And I was like, hey, buddy!

Hey!

Slow down or I'mma give you a ticket. And he goes, you gotta catch me first. And then he pushed it and he kept— like, he even went even faster. So think about this. There's a young man, and he had to be his late 20s, early 30s.

Yeah.

One arm. Only one arm. He had no legs. You know, his other arm was gone. Only one arm. He had every right in the world to be angry, right? every right in the world to be like, why are you talking to me, lady? But he took it in jest and he even played along and showed me that he was faster than I could be, which I thought was amazing. Why wouldn't I wanna work somewhere that takes care of those individuals? Yeah.

Wow. That's powerful.

Yeah.

So, such a great, great mission. And I'm also, I think, you know, a, a former Army officer myself. And so, I, I'm super appreciative of all that you do to serve our warfighters and, And yeah, the, the select civilians there at Walter Reed. That's awesome. Well, you're, you're obviously, Tonya, a great leader. So, let's talk a little bit about leadership. What are one or two key skills that you think helped you get to where you are? I mean, it's super impressive.

I think one, my ability to be teachable. And again, going from someone who was in nursing, we call it a science, right? And I mean, an art, I apologize, whereas technology is more of a science. So to go from an art to a science and understand both at the same time and be able to translate, I think is great. So definitely teachable and adaptability. I'm sure everyone sees on the news all the time about all the changes that are going on and how quickly things change. But at the end of the day, to remember that we are still taking care of our patients and what is our mission, right? So those are the 2 things I would say.

Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a question, and if, to the extent that you're comfortable answering it, what's the role of faith in your leadership and what you do?

So when we say faith, are we talking spiritual faith or just faith in the system?

Spiritual faith.

Oh my gosh. Faith is everything.

Yeah.

And the reason faith is everything is because regardless of the noise or external stimuli that comes in, you have to remember whose you are and whose you are. And that he, she, whatever you call this entity, has your best interest at play.

Yeah.

And that I didn't get from where I came from to where I am on my own.

Yeah. Right?

It had to be— and I believe in God, but it had to be God or whatever entity to get get me where I am and to sustain me because there has been some challenging times. I'm sure everybody can imagine.

Yeah. No, I love that. And I could sense and pick up on that was a key driver and that's why I asked. And it's the same for me. Was there a moment where vulnerability became your greatest strength?

Yes. Earlier this year, my team, With all of the— not all, but with the executive orders that were coming on, my team really didn't know how to respond because we would see something on TV, but we wouldn't necessarily have what execution looks like.

Yes.

And again, not only just what's on TV, but as people are talking and other folks are assuming what it means and how we're going to operationalize it, my team got really confused and concerned and overwhelmed with, oh my God, but we have to do this now. We have to do that now. What priority is a priority, right? Because if everything's a priority, nothing's a priority, right?

Right.

What do we do about resources? How do we do all of those things? And I had to be vulnerable in the sense that I was saying, listen, I feel it too. I get it. I understand. But here's a couple of things that I've done to decrease the external stimuli and the pressure that I'm putting on myself by listening to what everybody else is saying and paying attention to the noise versus focusing on the mission. I know that sounds hokey, and I probably I promise you, if one of my leaders would've said, just focus on the mission, I'd have been like, man, you crazy. This is too much. But truly, I had to strip myself down from everything and just say, OK, stop. What is my mission? My mission is to ensure that I'm enabling all of the tools necessary so that our end-user stakeholders can get the care that they need. So let's focus on that. How am I going to do that today?

Yeah.

And it made it a lot easier for me. I think it made it a lot easier for my team because my team typically sees me as someone that doesn't get shaken, right?

Yeah.

Like, I usually have a stiff upper lip, and even when I am nervous or I'm stressed, I'll say, oh, okay, I just need a little time to think about that. Let me strategize. And then I have the freakout or whatever by myself as I process. But I think it was very important for me to share with them, I'm feeling what you're feeling, and we need to take a pause and let's focus. Even if you have to take a moment To relax and regather yourself and jot down everything you're thinking. Let's do that. And then, let's come back refreshed and figure out what's our priorities.

Yeah. No, I love it. That's a great, great story. Where do you go when you need rest? Like, you know, to restore your creativity and things like that? Because obviously, you're in any CIO stressful environment and DOD and all that kind of stuff. What do you do?

What's rest? Truly, one of my latest things is I veg out. I watch scut TV, something that I don't have to think about, and nothing that's going on matters. And it's typically something I like. Like, I'm into Bridgerton on Netflix. So I've seen Bridgerton 8 times now, like the whole series 8 times.

Wow.

Because it makes me happy. The costumes, the music, you know, all of the positive things. Yeah, it brings me joy. I also love to travel. I love the sand. I don't get in the water because I'm afraid of sharks and stingrays, but I love the sand. I love to hear the ocean. I love to see the sky. So seeing all 3 elements together is amazing. Yeah. So yeah, those are things that I do.

Yeah. What's your favorite place if you got the chance to go back to someplace you've already been where there's ocean and beach and stuff like that? What's been a favorite?

Megan's Bay. Have you ever heard the history of Megan's Bay or the wives' tale?

I don't even know where Megan's Bay is, I'm afraid.

Okay, got it. So Megan's Bay is on St. John's Island, and it is a heart-shaped bay. And the wives' tale is a pirate fell in love with a woman looking through his periscope or whatever and went and stole her from her husband and put her on the ship. Well, the husband was upset. He wanted his wife back, so he went and stole her back in the middle of the night. This pirate was so in love with her that he bombed the bay until it became a heart shape.

Hmm.

So it's— it doesn't get— the sand is one of the most beautiful sands, most softest sands ever. And the bay, if you take a helicopter ride, it actually looks like a heart.

Wow. Very cool.

So I was like, oh my God, he, he was gonna burn down everything for this woman. But it's so calm and serene and you don't get all of the waves and so forth because of the way that the, the bay shaped.

Yeah, no, that's, that's very cool. Hey, is there something that your, your mom forced you to do back when you were a kid and you kind of rolled your eyes, but now looking back at it, you're glad she made you do it?

Absolutely. So my mom was a boomer. So, and I'm Gen X, you know, the forgotten generation that had to grow up by ourselves and blah, blah, blah. Like, I was the kid with the key on the shoestring.

Yeah.

Had to get in or whatever. My mom used to always say— I'm not gonna say her exact words, but I'll paraphrase. Don't have me out here looking stupid, right? And she needed to know what I did. Or before someone else told her.

Yes.

So what has that taught me? Bad news doesn't get better with time, right? Tell on yourself before somebody else tells on you, and it's easier to if you come forward first than to try to go back and fix what an ideology already is. So I was like, "Ah, she just wants to know everything I'm doing," and da da da da. And mind you, I still got in trouble, but. I believe the trouble was less because I told her. Um, and the way it helps me now is when I'm like, ooh, I probably shouldn't have said that. Or, you know, I told this person we can help them, but it's going to cost X, Y, and Z, and it may cause challenges. I tell my bosses right away, and they love it. Um, so, yes. Look, thanks, Mom.

Yeah.

But I definitely used to roll my eyes all the time.

That's awesome. Look, you're, you're an amazing leader, Tonya. So, what, what, what would you say if you were asked to speak at the local university to, uh, new college grads, just in general? You know, they don't maybe know where they're exactly where they're going, but what are one or two things you might share with them that would help them in their careers?

One or two things is don't be afraid to fail. Yeah. And don't be afraid to fail fast.

Yeah.

And I think number 3 would truly be, it's okay if you wanna pivot. It doesn't matter when. If you wanna, if you decide you wanna do something different, do it. I mean, you and I both know that the majority of individuals do not work in what they got their degrees in. Right.

Right?

Yeah. So at this point, a degree, even though mine says Bachelor of Science in Nursing, it just tells people that I'm able to learn. Right.

That's it.

That's all it tells. It's a certificate in learning, right? A bachelor's degree in learning is what it is. And that it's okay to fail. Failure does not mean that you, you're going backwards. You can use it as learning, figure out what you did wrong, do something different next time and move forward.

Yeah. Yeah. That's very well said. Those are 3 great points everyone should embrace, right? Whether they're graduating now or they graduated a few years ago. This has been a fascinating conversation. We talked about music, we talked about Patti LaBelle, one about your life message and mantra, and I particularly Like, hey, let's figure it out. That's a great attitude. Uh, I love the sign you talked about that as you enter IT, which I hope to see someday, hopefully will, says business runs IT, always remembering the customer focus is, was pretty amazing. And then how you got into healthcare, such a touching story and doesn't surprise me because the way you are today. And then talking about that transition from nursing to IT and all about IT leadership and, and leadership in general, you gave us so many. great things as I'm looking at my full page of notes. And I particularly like how we brought in faith to the conversation and you stressed on, hey, know whose you are and who you are. Really important foundation. And so that's really cool. What did we miss or anything you'd like to double down on? I'll give you the last word.

One thing I think we missed is imposter syndrome. I think we all feel it.

Yes.

We pretend that we don't, but we all feel it. We all are in positions where we're like, dang, they really want me to speak on this panel. Like, why do they wanna hear me? Do, do they know that I, I have a stutter? Do they know, you know, do they know where I grew up from? Like, do they, you know, do they know these things about me? And yes, they do know who you are.

Yes.

Right? That's why they ask you to do it.

Yeah.

So even if you feel imposter syndrome, It's okay.

Yeah.

And to that, like, and I know I keep coming up with all these mantras, is one of the things that I, I learned and I keep telling myself, I am better than I thought, right?

Yes. Yes.

I'm always better than I thought, but I'm worse than I can be.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's right. Yes. That's good.

So it's great to be where I am today, but where am I going tomorrow?

Yeah, I love that. Wow. So full of wisdom. You've dropped so many things on us, Todd. My head is spinning right now. So thank you so much for sharing with our audience. I know they all appreciate it.

No worries. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you all. rating and review.

And most importantly, thanks again for listening. Thank you.